Gun under the Gun?

[tornadospotter]

Chiefs Prediction #4: Gunther Cunningham will Fight for his Job (http://mvn.com/nfl-chiefs/2008/06/21/chiefs-prediction-4-gunther-cunningham-will-fight-for-his-job/)

By Jon Yoon (http://mvn.com/nfl-chiefs/author/jon.yoon) | June 21st, 2008

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Kansas City has made it no secret that Herm Edwars’ job is safe. Barring some ridiculously poor offensive performance in 2008, Chan Gailey’s job is safe. We haven’t heard anything about Gunther Cunningham having the same kind of job security.
Under the Gun
There’s a lot to like about Gunther Cunningham. There’s something very endearing about his personality. He’ll swear in front of your kids. He’ll curse and spit at players three times his size. He lives, breathes, and craps football 24/7. Personalities are nice, but sooner or later he’ll have to be held accountable for the defense he puts on the field. Gunther Cunningham’s defense has not been impressive in his second stint and he’s running out of excuses. Every year, he’s had a new excuse. Year 1, his defense underachieved because he didn’t have his players. The year after that, he failed because Vermeil handcuffed him with his offensive approach and lousy defensive assistants. They’ve moved Gunther inside the booth and outside the booth. Surrounded him with his players, and soon surrounded him with better players. They’ve surrounded him with a defensive head coach and terrific assistants. In 2006, they gave him a run-heavy offense that afforded him well-rested players and a favorable defensive environment. Granted, in 2007, he was limited by the fact that his defense was on the field all the time and undoubtedly grew tired, but that should not excuse the fact that Cunningham has yet to produce a defense that he should be producing.
Not to say that he is incapable of doing it, but he certainly needs to prove that he can do it. You can’t help but wonder if Cunningham piggy-backed off Marty Schottenheimer in his first stint as defensive coordinator. The truth is, Marty has built outstanding defenses in Cleveland and San Diego without Cunningham; Cunningham has not built nearly the same kind of defense without Marty. There also has to be some question as to whether Derrick Thomas was one of the main reasons for Gun’s prior successes. His defense was never the same after DT tragically passed.
Gun is an outstanding defensive coach and I’m excited for him to coach our LBs, but I’m beginning to wonder if his role should shift toward coaching LBs and less toward coordinating defenses. It was no secret that when Gun was asked to stay on as Herm Edwards’ assistant, there was somewhat of a philosophy clash–Herm runs a defense that usually features few blitzes and zone discipline, whereas Gunther runs an aggressive, attacking, blitz-heavy defense. I’ve always thought Gun’s use of his corners was slightly odd–he has always favored keeping corners on the same side of the field regardless of the matchup and there have been so many times when he moves corners 10-15 yards down the field–that’s pretty odd for a cover 2 defense, which usually requires corners to harass receivers near the line of scrimmage.
I also question why he continually favors slower strong safeties, when cover 2 defenses demand both safeties to cover a lot of field and to have outstanding range. His brand of safety is a great asset to have because of their physicality against the run, but at what cost? It limits the Chiefs’ ability to run a solid cover 2 and so often, we have seen our slower strong safeties get caught biting hard on playaction fakes or getting beat deep because they were playing too far inside the box. There have been many times when I’ve questioned whether Gunther Cunningham can be a little too aggressive at times.
Much like Solari was ill-equipped to run the more West Coast version of an offense that Herm desired, I’m beginning to wonder if there can ever be a marriage between Gun’s aggressive defense and Herm’s zone-oriented cover 2. This is a question that the Chiefs cannot sit and hope is the right answer, only to find out two years later that they were completely wrong. The Chiefs have given Gunther plenty of chances to succeed in Kansas City and he’s shown nothing thusfar to indicate that he is capable of building anything beyond a slightly above-average defense. The Chiefs will have to make a decision as to whether Gunther Cunningham is capable of fielding a good defense for the Chiefs, but whether he can field a Super Bowl defense given the type of defense Herm Edwards prefers to run. That decision needs to be made sooner rather than later.

[tornadospotter]

What is this?

[hermhater]

I have no idea what this jack *** is talking about.

Gun is about the only person on the team that Herm hasn't thrown under the bus.

Why is his job suddenly on such shaky ground?

[hermhater]

Yoon is a moron.

Can't even spell Edwards.

[CHIEFCANNON]

We have to take into account that at this time of year... if you don't have a story.. you make a story. Idle hands are the devils workshop.

[Dyno-Mite]

Gun needs to add the 3-4 to our defense.It doesn't get any better than seeing a 4-man linebacker core that consists of Edwards,D.J.,Napoleon and Demorrio Williams.:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

[royalswin100games]

Uh... yeah.

[rbedgood]

Gun needs to add the 3-4 to our defense.It doesn't get any better than seeing a 4-man linebacker core that consists of Edwards,D.J.,Napoleon and Demorrio Williams.:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

The reasoning for adding a 3-4 would be good, but this isn't it. The correct reason for doing so, is you have Dorsey who could plug the middle, and a few guys that would be better suited to playing a DE in the 3-4 system. The linebacker corp is good, but I'm not sure that Edwards in particular would be best served in a 3-4 at this point. However he's a good enough player that he'd do okay even in a system not suited for him.

I need to go shower, I just agreed with Ti...err...Grbac.

[Chiefster]

That all makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

[milkman]

The reality is that we don't know what we have in D Williams, and there's no way in hell I'd want Nap Harris in a 3-4.

[milkman]

As for ****her, Chiefs fans overarte him.

He has never coached a player to overachieve, and isn't even able to get most players to achieve a level that should be easily reached.

[Chiefster]

As for ****her, Chiefs fans overarte him.

He has never coached a player to overachieve, and isn't even able to get most players to achieve a level that should be easily reached.

...Kinda like Germ.

[tornadospotter]

As for ****her, Chiefs fans overarte him.

He has never coached a player to overachieve, and isn't even able to get most players to achieve a level that should be easily reached.
So who do you think should be the Defensive Coordinator for the Chiefs? I think that Gun is who we want!

[milkman]

...Kinda like Germ.

I think you know how I feel about Herman ****ing Edwards.

[Pro_Angler]

This guy is a retard!!!!! We had almost a great defense last year!!!!! I think we ended up 1 or 2 in red zone defense???

Gunther is perfect where he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tornadospotter]

I think you know how I feel about Herman ****ing Edwards.
sorry not clear can you elaborate on the subject of hermie? :yahoo:

[tornadospotter]

This guy is a retard!!!!! We had almost a great defense last year!!!!! I think we ended up 1 or 2 in red zone defense???

Gunther is perfect where he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with you! But is hermie going to get rid of gun? Is this a seed being planted? Is Gun to be the fall guy if the Chiefs have a losing season? Hey all give your thoughts on this.
:mob:

[Three7s]

I agree with you! But is hermie going to get rid of gun? Is this a seed being planted? Is Gun to be the fall guy if the Chiefs have a losing season? Hey all give your thoughts on this.
:mob:
I don't think so, last year our defense was bad in some aspects, but overall, it wasn't. If it isn't bad overall, then he's probably fine.

[Pro_Angler]

I believe we were one good corner and one good safety from being great. none of which is Gun's fault. if they put this on him..what the offense sucking? LMAO i will cry

[Three7s]

I believe we were one good corner and one good safety from being great. none of which is Gun's fault. if they put this on him..what the offense sucking? LMAO i will cry
Problem is that Gun is the one that has the most say in the defensive guys we draft, I heard. He's always had a knack for mean and aggressive guys that hit like a truck. Pollard was just that, but he couldn't cover a deep ball if his life depended on it. That may be why we drafted a safety in our last draft.

[DMN]

I really find it hard to blame the coordinator in our situation. The D started out pretty well last season. They really started to give up when they realized the were busting their *** to get the ball only to have the offense go 3 and out. They just plain gave up... Bottom line is that our offense has to meet the D halfway. If we are as poor offensively this year as we were last year we are gonna see the same thing.

[milkman]

Problem is that Gun is the one that has the most say in the defensive guys we draft, I heard. He's always had a knack for mean and aggressive guys that hit like a truck. Pollard was just that, but he couldn't cover a deep ball if his life depended on it. That may be why we drafted a safety in our last draft.

****her is one of the worst, if not the worst talent evaluators I've witnessed.

Here's a guy who thought that Willaim Bartee was a corner, Junior Siavvii would be a good DT, Kawika Mitchell could be a leader of our defense.

These are just a few examples of his evaluation skills.

****her rode the coattails of Marty when he was here the first time.

[hermhater]

Mitchell?

Seriously?

That is your argument?

[SomewhereoverDwayneBowe]

Gunther had the Chiefs defense playin like a SUPERBOWL defense thru the first 4-5 games last year. The problem is when your offense goes 3 and out for ohh lets say THREE STRAIGHT QUARTERS! The defense tends to wear down. The problem with our defense...was the lack of an o-line and special teams. Gun is the only coach on the staff that has his **** together! And he will have this team ready to win a championship again this year. Will the rest of the coaching staff follow?...I'm not holding my breath! Herm Edwards is straight up full of ****! I'm talking timeshare salesman, politician full of ****! His own players know he's full of ****. And they aren't buying into his...full of ****ness!

[royalswin100games]

Gunther had the Chiefs defense playin like a SUPERBOWL defense thru the first 4-5 games last year. The problem is when your offense goes 3 and out for ohh lets say THREE STRAIGHT QUARTERS! The defense tends to wear down. The problem with our defense...was the lack of an o-line and special teams. Gun is the only coach on the staff that has his **** together! And he will have this team ready to win a championship again this year. Will the rest of the coaching staff follow?...I'm not holding my breath! Herm Edwards is straight up full of ****! I'm talking timeshare salesman, politician full of ****! His own players know he's full of ****. And they aren't buying into his...full of ****ness!

:lol: He said full of ****ness.

Carl and Herm need to go.

[SomewhereoverDwayneBowe]

****her is one of the worst, if not the worst talent evaluators I've witnessed.

Here's a guy who thought that Willaim Bartee was a corner, Junior Siavvii would be a good DT, Kawika Mitchell could be a leader of our defense.

These are just a few examples of his evaluation skills.

****her rode the coattails of Marty when he was here the first time.
This post is wrong on so many levels that I don't know where to start. By the way Mitchell went to the saints and faired pretty well with a defense that had talent issues. Marty has no balls. Nor will he ever coach a chamionship team. Although I hear he's a pretty good tipper!.....HA!

[SomewhereoverDwayneBowe]

:lol: He said full of ****ness.

Carl and Herm need to go.
I'm not a "Carl hater" but I agree. It's time for a change. Would any other organization allow someone 15 years to implement a five year plan?

[milkman]

This post is wrong on so many levels that I don't know where to start. By the way Mitchell went to the saints and faired pretty well with a defense that had talent issues. Marty has no balls. Nor will he ever coach a chamionship team. Although I hear he's a pretty good tipper!.....HA!

So tell me where it's wrong?

Since you don't even seem know the difference between Kawika Mitchell and Scott Fugita, I don't believe any argument you might have would have any credibility.

[Canada]

Mitchell won a SuperBowl last season
Fujita plays ona pretty good Cowgirls defence.

Credible enough?

[royalswin100games]

Mitchell won a SuperBowl last season
Fujita plays ona pretty good Cowgirls defence.

Credible enough?

Fujita has played for the Aints for a couple of years brotha. :bananen_smilies046:

Doesn't matter though, there is only one team worth following...

[Canada]

Fujita has played for the Aints for a couple of years brotha. :bananen_smilies046:

Doesn't matter though, there is only one team worth following...

Fujita got traded from the Chiefs to the Cowgirls in '05 and played for a pretty good defense. Then went to the Aints.

[milkman]

Fujita got traded from the Chiefs to the Cowgirls in '05 and played for a pretty good defense. Then went to the Aints.

Yes he did.

But since you weren't the one who confused Fujita for Mitchell, you never had a credibility issue.

Doesn't mean you won't be wrong, but you will be credible.

[Chiefster]

Yes he did.

But since you weren't the one who confused Fujita for Mitchell, you never had a credibility issue.

Doesn't mean you won't be wrong, but you will be credible.


Yup, inaccuracy should not be attributed to character flaws.

[milkman]

Yup, inaccuracy should not be attributed to character flaws.

When you attempt to make a point, and you don't even know who the hell you are talking about, then you have a problem with credibility.

It's not a character flaw, it just means you don't have a freakin' clue.

[Chiefster]

When you attempt to make a point, and you don't even know who the hell you are talking about, then you have a problem with credibility.

It's not a character flaw, it just means you don't have a freakin' clue.
True, the point I was making is that credibility is often looked upon as being synonymous with ones level of honesty or lack thereof. JMHO

[milkman]

True, the point I was making is that credibility is often looked upon as being synonymous with ones level of honesty or lack thereof. JMHO

To be clear, I'm not calling him a liar.

I'm calling him misinformed, uneducated.

[Chiefster]

To be clear, I'm not calling him a liar.

I'm calling him misinformed, uneducated.


I know dude; it's cool. I agree; big difference between being inaccurate and intentionally saying something untrue.

[rbedgood]

Hmmm...

No I didn't
Yes you did
No I didn't
Yes you did
No I didn't
Yes you did
...and so on


Okay guys we got the point :)

[OTR Chiefs fan]

Hmmm...

No I didn't
Yes you did
No I didn't
Yes you did
No I didn't
Yes you did
...and so on


Okay guys we got the point :)

:lol::funnypost:

Does somebody need a time out?:D

[chief31]

I agree with you! But is hermie going to get rid of gun? Is this a seed being planted? Is Gun to be the fall guy if the Chiefs have a losing season? Hey all give your thoughts on this.
:mob:

He probably will. Herm isn't an NFL head coach. He is a professional blame-deflector.


To be clear, I'm not calling him a liar.

I'm calling him misinformed, uneducated.

Oh, so Mr. perfect jumps on a guys **** for making a very simple mistake.

What a waste of a keybnoard. (Ooo, lookie. < a typo. Better give me hell!)

You just jumped the mistake, to cover the mistake you made by calling-out a Super Bowl champion starting MLB
as incapable of being a leader of a defense.

Just so you know, the fact that you talk all ****y and belittle people doesn't maen that you are ...right...smart...or even competant.

I am guessing that as soon as the season starts and and the things that you are saying now begin to look bad, our sour-milk delivery will dissapear again.

By the way, Siavii was a Vermiel pick, and everyone knows it.

Credibility lost. That's how it works, right?

[rbedgood]

:lol::funnypost:

Does somebody need a time out?:D

Yeah I think this thread may need a time-out?!?!

[Chiefster]

:lol:

I love this thread.

[milkman]

He probably will. Herm isn't an NFL head coach. He is a professional blame-deflector.



Oh, so Mr. perfect jumps on a guys **** for making a very simple mistake.

What a waste of a keybnoard. (Ooo, lookie. < a typo. Better give me hell!)

You just jumped the mistake, to cover the mistake you made by calling-out a Super Bowl champion starting MLB
as incapable of being a leader of a defense.

Just so you know, the fact that you talk all ****y and belittle people doesn't maen that you are ...right...smart...or even competant.

I am guessing that as soon as the season starts and and the things that you are saying now begin to look bad, our sour-milk delivery will dissapear again.

By the way, Siavii was a Vermiel pick, and everyone knows it.

Credibility lost. That's how it works, right?

First off, I'm not Mr Perfect, I make plenty of mistakes.

But a typo?

That's bull, and by the way, Kawika was an OLB for the Giants.

And the fact that I pointed out your mistake isn't belittling you, it's correcting you.

If I called you a dumbass that didn't know ****, that would be belittling you.

As for Jr, it was pretty well documented that ****her was all over that pick, and that Dick and Carl handed the reins over to ****her.

Dick stayed out of ****her's way.
Carl made the pick that ****her lobbied for.

[Dyno-Mite]

The reality is that we don't know what we have in D Williams, and there's no way in hell I'd want Nap Harris in a 3-4.



Demorrio was a fine player while as a Falcon.I know that D-Will can be a good player for us.He just needs to play in the 3-4.Milkman,you got to be kidding me if you don't like Napoleon in the 3-4.He had the best years of his NFL tenure while playing in the 3-4 as a Raider.The same case can be made about Edwards because he had the best years of his NFL tenure while playing in the 3-4 as a Charger.

[rbedgood]

The 3-4 is very friendly to linebackers as long as a team has a big strong DT. Wait, is it just me or would a guy like Dorsey fit that bill. Then additionally you'd like at least one if not both DEs to be really good in run support. Letting your pass rush come largely from the Linebackers. It would fit the Chief's current personnel very well.

[Chiefster]

The 3-4 is very friendly to linebackers as long as a team has a big strong DT. Wait, is it just me or would a guy like Dorsey fit that bill. Then additionally you'd like at least one if not both DEs to be really good in run support. Letting your pass rush come largely from the Linebackers. It would fit the Chief's current personnel very well.

Agreed, the D's weakness the last couple of years have been in it's pass schemes. IMHO

[Dyno-Mite]

The 3-4 is very friendly to linebackers as long as a team has a big strong DT. Wait, is it just me or would a guy like Dorsey fit that bill. Then additionally you'd like at least one if not both DEs to be really good in run support. Letting your pass rush come largely from the Linebackers. It would fit the Chief's current personnel very well.



That's word up Rbedgood.Just imagine the speed that emerges in the 3-4 when we bring safeties in the box such as Jarrad Page,Greg Wesley or Bernard Pollard to the box while teaming up with our other 4 linebackers during blitzing,run support or disguise situations?Damn.

[tornadospotter]

That's word up Rbedgood.Just imagine the speed that emerges in the 3-4 when we bring safeties in the box such as Jarrad Page,Greg Wesley or Bernard Pollard to the box while teaming up with our other 4 linebackers during blitzing,run support or disguise situations?Damn.
Do we have that nose tackle that can blow up the middle? Stuff the run and or disrupt the blocking schemes?

[Dyno-Mite]

Do we have that nose tackle that can blow up the middle? Stuff the run and or disrupt the blocking schemes?


Hell yeah,Alphonso Boone fits the bill perfectly.

[Three7s]

Do we have that nose tackle that can blow up the middle? Stuff the run and or disrupt the blocking schemes?
That'd be Dorsey's job! Hopefully, Hali and Boone could support him. That is, IF we go to 3-4, which I doubt will happen.......

[chief31]

First off, I'm not Mr Perfect, I make plenty of mistakes.

But a typo?

That's bull, and by the way, Kawika was an OLB for the Giants.

And the fact that I pointed out your mistake isn't belittling you, it's correcting you.

If I called you a dumbass that didn't know ****, that would be belittling you.

As for Jr, it was pretty well documented that ****her was all over that pick, and that Dick and Carl handed the reins over to ****her.

Dick stayed out of ****her's way.
Carl made the pick that ****her lobbied for.

Vermiel picked Siavii from his buddies advice. Stop all that.

And you rode Three7s *** about mistaking Mitchell for for Fujita. You didn't just correct him and move on. You ranted about how he has no credibilty because he made a mistake.

[Three7s]

Vermiel picked Siavii from his buddies advice. Stop all that.

And you rode Three7s *** about mistaking Mitchell for for Fujita. You didn't just correct him and move on. You ranted about how he has no credibilty because he made a mistake.
Wait, I made a mistake like that?!

[hermhater]

Wait, I made a mistake like that?!


If I were you, I would drink more beer...

:toast2:

[chief31]

Wait, I made a mistake like that?!
This thread is bcoming ****-up central. It was actually SomewhereoverDwayneBowe who made that mistake, and I am the *** that made the mistake of saying you did it. :lol:

[hermhater]

This thread is bcoming ****-up central. It was actually SomewhereoverDwayneBowe who made that mistake, and I am the *** that made the mistake of saying you did it. :lol:

***.

:fatlock:

:lol:

[SomewhereoverDwayneBowe]

So tell me where it's wrong?

Since you don't even seem know the difference between Kawika Mitchell and Scott Fugita, I don't believe any argument you might have would have any credibility.
Woops.! I have more credit than you will ever have! Even when I make mistakes.

[Seek]

Hell yeah,Alphonso Boone fits the bill perfectly.

Boone is now playing DE.

I guess the Chiefs don't think he is the NT, you do. I think they are nutz myself.

[Dyno-Mite]

Boone is now playing DE.

I guess the Chiefs don't think he is the NT, you do. I think they are nutz myself.



If we were to go to the 3-4 then I'd assume that Tamba reverts back to the left end position.Boone's run stuffing ability allows him to be a key factor while in the middle.It'll be nice if Glenn Dorsey starts at right end if we were in the 3-4.Moving Boone to the defensive end position while in the 4-3 is not really a bad idea because he'll portray a bigger role that of in which when we had Vonnie Holliday.His role will be similar to Vonnie Holiday but he'll do a better job at defensive end.I'm sick and tired of seeing Ron Edwards.He's not a key contributor for our defense.He can be relied on as a excellent backup but he definitely lacks skills involving the pass rush.We need a new guy instead of Ron Edwards.

[milkman]

Vermiel picked Siavii from his buddies advice. Stop all that.

And you rode Three7s *** about mistaking Mitchell for for Fujita. You didn't just correct him and move on. You ranted about how he has no credibilty because he made a mistake.

That was Ryan Sims that Dick picked on the advice of his buddy, not Junior Siavii.

And you are really sensitive if you think I rode anyone's ***.

[Chiefster]

I'd close this thread if it weren't so freakin funny to read. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Three7s]

I'd close this thread if it weren't so freakin funny to read. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Glad that we could entertain you!

[Chiefster]

Wait, I made a mistake like that?!


If I were you, I would drink more beer...

:toast2:


This thread is bcoming ****-up central. It was actually SomewhereoverDwayneBowe who made that mistake, and I am the *** that made the mistake of saying you did it. :lol:


***.

:fatlock:

:lol:


Woops.! I have more credit than you will ever have! Even when I make mistakes.

Well you have to admit: that's some funny stuff. :D