Larry Johnson...

[rbedgood]

Okay, I've seen at least 5-6 people propose trading LJ and going with Smith/Charles as the RBBC over the past couple weeks. Although the theory may be nice considring the team is rebuilding and that LJ is being paid a lot for a guy who is unable to do much without an O-line...I am just a bit confused as to where he'd go?

Name 1 team that fits all the needed characteristics to trade for him

1) Salary cap space
2) Young players/draft picks Chiefs would want
3) Need a running back to become a playoff/championship contender

Okay, there are plenty of teams with the salary cap space, but very few that are a running back away from contention.

The only team I can think of at all is Houston, and with Kubiak there (being from the Shanahan school of coaching) I doubt he'd pay much for a running back

Other teams that are close but don't fit are: Cincy (no O-line), Seattle (just invested in Julius Jones), and Detroit (invested in Kevin Smith & Rudi Johnson for this season).

Pretty much every other team is set and invested in a suitable RB, or they have other issues that are more pressing.

[texaschief]

The reason teams won't trade for him are the same reasons fans in KC would like to trade him... he hasn't shown his worth.

This is a bad discussion. If trading LJ was ever going to happen, it should've been before the 2007 draft.

[anaeelbackwards]

agreed... trading LJ would be a realll bad thing... he just doesnt have a good o-line to give him some decent holes to run through...


The reason teams won't trade for him are the same reasons fans in KC would like to trade him... he hasn't shown his worth.

This is a bad discussion. If trading LJ was ever going to happen, it should've been before the 2007 draft.

[greg3564]

Doesn't help that he made a huge stink and held out in training camp. Then he has a terrible season after a HUGE payday. The guy, as good as he can be, is viewed as not being a team player in the locker room and bad for morale. Lots of coaches just don't want the drama in their organization.

[Coach]

The reason teams won't trade for him are the same reasons fans in KC would like to trade him... he hasn't shown his worth.


Exactly. He has very little trade value right now.

[rbedgood]

Exactly. He has very little trade value right now.

My point in all this is to get people to realize LJ isn't going anywhere...as a fantasy footballer who has LJ on my big money league roster I'd love to see him moved to a power running team, but it isn't going to happen.

[Coach]

I've got him on my fantasy team as well. 14th pick.

[Chiefster]

Exactly. He has very little trade value right now.

Yup, I think we're stuck with him. He had more trade value last year IMO.


Man I miss this place.

[peekaboo224]

He will be here to stay. It's typical though - get the big bucks and then performance goes out the door.

[Bike]

Bench his $ss.

[YZILLA]

Why not Clevland for their backup QB Brady Quinn and we will throw in Thigpen to boot. They need a back right now and we need a QB!

[Bike]

Excellent! But would Cleveland (or anyone else) pay off the remaining millions on his contract? We're stuck with this money pit...

[texaschief]

agreed... trading LJ would be a realll bad thing... he just doesnt have a good o-line to give him some decent holes to run through...

Ok... for the record, I wasn't saying we shouldn't trade him. :lol: I was just saying its a bad discussion and this whole thread is in vein.

[tornadospotter]

Ok... for the record, I wasn't saying we shouldn't trade him. :lol: I was just saying its a bad discussion and this whole thread is in vein.
:sign0098: Yep! :11:








thats all except!!!!!
:beer:

[DrunkHillbilly]

If the O line could open ANY holes, he would do just fine. That is the type of runner he is, between the tackles! He has NEVER, not even in college been the guy who is going to bounce outside and beat anyone to the corner! I saw him try several times last week but I think it's only because there is nowhere to go!!! Like I said last season, I can understand his frustration. Running into the back of your line all the time sucks!! I hear some say wait for the hole to open. HAAAAHHAAAAAA!!! The game is only 3 1/2 hours long!!!!

Noone was *****in about him when he was tearin it up and I understand we had a GREAT O line but to go from best to worst in that catagory can not be easy on ANY RB that runs between the tackles.

[Bike]

Well, then we need to play somebody more suited for our offensive line. If LJ can't get around the corner, then start Charles.

[tornadospotter]

Well, then we need to play somebody more suited for our offensive line. If LJ can't get around the corner, then start Charles.
Kolby Smith!

[Bike]

Kolby Smith!
That works, too!

[arrowheadGoon305]

yea there both pretty fast n could bounce out

[CHIEFCANNON]

For what is worth... I wrote to Bob Moore of the Chiefs who was a tad bid defensive in his response.

Original Message-----


Sent: 9/8/2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Future Starting QB

Respectfully, Mr. Moore

I would be on the phone Monday to Cleveland to trade .... Yes, Larry
Johnson to the Browns for Brady Quinn. IF, there is any chance of a playoff
or SuperBowl in the next decade for the Chiefs it would be with Quinn and
not Brodie Croyle. Croyle is glaringly not the answer and a large glass of
"Kool-aid" nor The Preacher/Peterson spin doctoring is going to cover the
sadly obvious.

Even the NFL Channel commentators state that Croyle is not the answer at QB
for the Chiefs. That would be Deion and Steve Marriucci.

My opinion is just that, but, there's growing discernment in the Chiefs'
Nation that Mr. Croyle is fragile, fractured and failing to even glimpse the
role of "Franchise QB" that has summarily been handed to him on a silver
platter and NOT earned. I've seen more poise, accuracy, quality decision
making, in two quarters of football with Quinn running the Browns than 7
games of what ever it is that being sold as Brodie Croyle in Chiefs uniform.

If you want to play for picks keep him in there... if your goal is to bring
in thee guy that shows the skills to get the Chiefs back to the SuperBowl
after 38 years and counting ... make a Jared Allen move and do the deal
while you still can. Bring a Franchise QB to the Chiefs.

Again, most respectfully

Chief Cannon
9/8/2008



----- Original Message -----


Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:39 AM
Subject: RE: Future Starting QB


You need to get over your Peterson controls all things and is forever spin
doctoring. Who the starting qb is falls to the head coach not the gm. Brodie
Quinn is not going to be traded by Cleveland in the first place and secondly
needs as much time as Croyle to determine if he i a starting qb or not and
that takes on average over 30 games behind center.

===============================================
Here's another response from the Chiefs....Jim:

Thanks for your email and your passion for Chiefs football. Clearly we are just as concerned regarding Brodie’s injury as is the rest of the Chiefs Nation. Rest assured, we are exploring many options at this point. Unfortunately, a true “franchise QB” is a very rare commodity in the NFL and the Chiefs aren’t the only franchise seeking one. However, we certainly share your sentiments that a quality signal caller is a key element to any successful playoff tema.



Again, we appreciate your longtime support of the Chiefs and your observations.


Best Regards,

Pete
================================================

7:01 AM
Hey Bob ... I get your message. I'll get over the "spin-doctoring" when it
stops. You guys do do it. Secondly trade LJ not Brodie... and it's Brady
Quinn ... I almost screwed it up the names myself. Like I said to another
Chief fan... I've got a crisp "Ben Franklin" that... you will never see
Brodie Croyle play in a Chiefs uniform as the starting QB in any playoff or
Super Bowl appearance for the Kansas City Chiefs. What you've got here is a
skinny version of Elvis Grbac... he never had the team or the right stuff to
get the job done.

I'd bet Len Dawson would tell you .... Brodie is not the future of the
Chiefs.

IMHO it's not going to take 30 starts to get message ... and shouldn't ...
like knowing Kendrell Bell stunk.. Siavii, Simms, Parker, OMG...Drummond...
I'll stop. How does Jeff Webb make this team and Sippio doesn't? Or you
keep Sams and not Sippio? Just curious.
You sure could have used someone who can catch yesterday... and you would
have won. Yes, I know it was Bowe that Bobo'ed... he'll make up for it.
Good effort by the Chiefs when no one gave this team one ounce of respect on
TV or otherwise... and they still don't. We're used to it.

It's now time to punch the Raider in the other good eye this week at
home.....ARROWHEAD STADIUM! How about honoring Lamar Hunt with a bronze
statue outside the entrance of the stadium. Re-name the field in honor of
him. "Lamar Hunt Stadium at Arrowhead". Forget about the sponsor money and
honor The Man who built the Chiefs... for that matter helped build the NFL
into what it is today.

I understand and respect the fact you responded with your family
emergency.... I hope things went the best for your family and all is well.

Sincerely,

Chief Cannon
==========================================

[jtandcrew]

For what is worth... I wrote to Bob Moore of the Chiefs who was a tad bid defensive in his response.

Original Message-----


Sent: 9/8/2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Future Starting QB

Respectfully, Mr. Moore

I would be on the phone Monday to Cleveland to trade .... Yes, Larry
Johnson to the Browns for Brady Quinn. IF, there is any chance of a playoff
or SuperBowl in the next decade for the Chiefs it would be with Quinn and
not Brodie Croyle. Croyle is glaringly not the answer and a large glass of
"Kool-aid" nor The Preacher/Peterson spin doctoring is going to cover the
sadly obvious.

Even the NFL Channel commentators state that Croyle is not the answer at QB
for the Chiefs. That would be Deion and Steve Marriucci.

My opinion is just that, but, there's growing discernment in the Chiefs'
Nation that Mr. Croyle is fragile, fractured and failing to even glimpse the
role of "Franchise QB" that has summarily been handed to him on a silver
platter and NOT earned. I've seen more poise, accuracy, quality decision
making, in two quarters of football with Quinn running the Browns than 7
games of what ever it is that being sold as Brodie Croyle in Chiefs uniform.

If you want to play for picks keep him in there... if your goal is to bring
in thee guy that shows the skills to get the Chiefs back to the SuperBowl
after 38 years and counting ... make a Jared Allen move and do the deal
while you still can. Bring a Franchise QB to the Chiefs.

Again, most respectfully

Chief Cannon
9/8/2008



----- Original Message -----


Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:39 AM
Subject: RE: Future Starting QB


You need to get over your Peterson controls all things and is forever spin
doctoring. Who the starting qb is falls to the head coach not the gm. Brodie
Quinn is not going to be traded by Cleveland in the first place and secondly
needs as much time as Croyle to determine if he i a starting qb or not and
that takes on average over 30 games behind center.

===============================================
Here's another response from the Chiefs....Jim:

Thanks for your email and your passion for Chiefs football. Clearly we are just as concerned regarding Brodie’s injury as is the rest of the Chiefs Nation. Rest assured, we are exploring many options at this point. Unfortunately, a true “franchise QB” is a very rare commodity in the NFL and the Chiefs aren’t the only franchise seeking one. However, we certainly share your sentiments that a quality signal caller is a key element to any successful playoff tema.



Again, we appreciate your longtime support of the Chiefs and your observations.


Best Regards,

Pete
================================================

7:01 AM
Hey Bob ... I get your message. I'll get over the "spin-doctoring" when it
stops. You guys do do it. Secondly trade LJ not Brodie... and it's Brady
Quinn ... I almost screwed it up the names myself. Like I said to another
Chief fan... I've got a crisp "Ben Franklin" that... you will never see
Brodie Croyle play in a Chiefs uniform as the starting QB in any playoff or
Super Bowl appearance for the Kansas City Chiefs. What you've got here is a
skinny version of Elvis Grbac... he never had the team or the right stuff to
get the job done.

I'd bet Len Dawson would tell you .... Brodie is not the future of the
Chiefs.

IMHO it's not going to take 30 starts to get message ... and shouldn't ...
like knowing Kendrell Bell stunk.. Siavii, Simms, Parker, OMG...Drummond...
I'll stop. How does Jeff Webb make this team and Sippio doesn't? Or you
keep Sams and not Sippio? Just curious.
You sure could have used someone who can catch yesterday... and you would
have won. Yes, I know it was Bowe that Bobo'ed... he'll make up for it.
Good effort by the Chiefs when no one gave this team one ounce of respect on
TV or otherwise... and they still don't. We're used to it.

It's now time to punch the Raider in the other good eye this week at
home.....ARROWHEAD STADIUM! How about honoring Lamar Hunt with a bronze
statue outside the entrance of the stadium. Re-name the field in honor of
him. "Lamar Hunt Stadium at Arrowhead". Forget about the sponsor money and
honor The Man who built the Chiefs... for that matter helped build the NFL
into what it is today.

I understand and respect the fact you responded with your family
emergency.... I hope things went the best for your family and all is well.

Sincerely,

Chief Cannon
==========================================

I woulda thought that they would rename the field immediately after Lamar passed!

As far as Johnson is concered? I was calling for his trade befor the season started!

[rbedgood]

I woulda thought that they would rename the field immediately after Lamar passed!

As far as Johnson is concered? I was calling for his trade befor the season started!

Which gets back to my original point and reason to start this thread...there is nowhere to send LJ. Cleveland would be crazy to trade Quinn for LJ. The salary cap implications alone are wrong for Cleveland as well as the fact that Jamal Lewis will serve their needs just fine for the next couple years, and is paid much less than LJ....and before the season doesn't change this. Now if you could go back to last August when he was holding out, I'd bet you could've gotten some value for him...but it likely would've come in the form of a top WR, or some draft picks...not a QB.

[jtandcrew]

I disagree....I think we coulda had Quinn IF we wanted him. Herm is set on a Youth deal that he already has, so dont see him going out and making moves with the people we have

[Big Daddy Tek]

You guys are High. Sometimes I cant beleive what I read on this web site. LJ was just coming into his stride when he got hurt last year. WE DIDNT WIN 1 GAME AFTER HE WAS INJURED!!!!!!!!!! And yes he was having a mediocre year for the first 3 weeks but our O-line was Horrid. He just played against an amazing D-Line last week. Give this guy a break.

Perfect example of a Chiefs Fan: A guy carries the ball 420 times in 1 season (NFL record) risking his career for the sake of the team and you guys crap on him. Congrats Chiefs fans, you guys are great!

[Three7s]

LJ should get at least 100 yards rushing against the Raiders horrific defense, if he doesn't, I think I might be worried.

[rbedgood]

You guys are High. Sometimes I cant beleive what I read on this web site. LJ was just coming into his stride when he got hurt last year. WE DIDNT WIN 1 GAME AFTER HE WAS INJURED!!!!!!!!!! And yes he was having a mediocre year for the first 3 weeks but our O-line was Horrid. He just played against an amazing D-Line last week. Give this guy a break.

Perfect example of a Chiefs Fan: A guy carries the ball 420 times in 1 season (NFL record) risking his career for the sake of the team and you guys crap on him. Congrats Chiefs fans, you guys are great!


I never said LJ was the problem. I'm simply stating that there isn't a demand for him in the trade market considering his contract. I think he'll still finish with 1200+ yards and 10+TDs which is a nice season considering the O-line he's working with.

[texaschief]

All i have to say is I'm glad the Raiders passed on Dorsey. Otherwise, the Chiefs might lose Sunday. lol

[Big Daddy Tek]

All i have to say is I'm glad the Raiders passed on Dorsey. Otherwise, the Chiefs might lose Sunday. lol
hahahahahahah

[Three7s]

As long as Al Davis remains with the Raiders, they won't even sniff .500.

[tornadospotter]

As long as Al Davis remains with the Raiders, they won't even sniff .500.
I like Al Davis, He is the best GM we have, He will never underspend us for overrated players, and he will never let us be in last place of the AFC West! Got to like this guy, Al, hope he has many more years.

[rbedgood]

I like Al Davis, He is the best GM we have, He will never underspend us for overrated players, and he will never let us be in last place of the AFC West! Got like this guy, Al, hope he has many more years.

...and as a bonus he keeps my 49ers from being the worst team in the Bay Area. At least we looked like an NFL team for most of the game Sunday. Oh and Al, thanks for taking Kwame Harris for us. :lol:

[tornadospotter]

...and as a bonus he keeps my 49ers from being the worst team in the Bay Area. At least we looked like an NFL team for most of the game Sunday. Oh and Al, thanks for taking Kwame Harris for us. :lol:
:lol: Yes, Yes, share the love of Al, do not hide it, show it!!!!!:D

[chief31]

You guys are High. Sometimes I cant beleive what I read on this web site. LJ was just coming into his stride when he got hurt last year. WE DIDNT WIN 1 GAME AFTER HE WAS INJURED!!!!!!!!!! And yes he was having a mediocre year for the first 3 weeks but our O-line was Horrid. He just played against an amazing D-Line last week. Give this guy a break.

Perfect example of a Chiefs Fan: A guy carries the ball 420 times in 1 season (NFL record) risking his career for the sake of the team and you guys crap on him. Congrats Chiefs fans, you guys are great!

I often sound like I don't like LJ. (On the field) But I just don't think that he can be too terribly effective with this offense. Specifically, with this offensive line.

I wanted him traded as soon as I learned that Willie Roaf was retiring.

I would still like to see him traded. But that is primarily because of his attitude and price tag.

[jakesmith]

Wow, someone is sensitive about LJ.

I'm not sure where my opinion of LJ is. At times I think he is selfish and doesnt give a rip about the team. Other times its like he comes out of his shell and does something that makes you think he is a team player.

What I saw this past week against the Pats was ok. LJ did break for a long run, but I also saw him running into the back of a lot of his blockers. I dont play prof football, but when I did play in HS I knew enough to NOT run into the back of a blocker. It seems that is what LJ does a lot of. I cant understand how you think you can get more yards when your running into the back of your own line. Not to mention the fact the odds of injurying your own blocker by hitting him in the back are a lot higher.

If you look at his first couple seasons, you see a different running style. LJ was always a power runner and did bowl over people when he had to, but you also see that he made people miss. He did a lot more lateral movement to get past a blocker or defender to grind a few more yards. These last couple years LJ just runs forward and if he hits someone then oh well.

[kcchiefs4life]

Wow, someone is sensitive about LJ.

I'm not sure where my opinion of LJ is. At times I think he is selfish and doesnt give a rip about the team. Other times its like he comes out of his shell and does something that makes you think he is a team player.

What I saw this past week against the Pats was ok. LJ did break for a long run, but I also saw him running into the back of a lot of his blockers. I dont play prof football, but when I did play in HS I knew enough to NOT run into the back of a blocker. It seems that is what LJ does a lot of. I cant understand how you think you can get more yards when your running into the back of your own line. Not to mention the fact the odds of injurying your own blocker by hitting him in the back are a lot higher.

If you look at his first couple seasons, you see a different running style. LJ was always a power runner and did bowl over people when he had to, but you also see that he made people miss. He did a lot more lateral movement to get past a blocker or defender to grind a few more yards. These last couple years LJ just runs forward and if he hits someone then oh well.

Amen brother!
I am glad someone else noticed the running style difference. It was like back when Priest was there he had to try to impress to get the starting spot, now he has it and doesn't really care one way or another. Sometimes I think Larry would rather be painting in his condo instead of playing football. His paintings SUCK too by the way.

[leaves]

I am tired of seeing LJ suck, if we could trade him, I'd love to see a veteran lineman or wr to come over.

[Big Daddy Tek]

I am tired of seeing LJ suck, if we could trade him, I'd love to see a veteran lineman or wr to come over.
Everyone will suck until the Chiefs can run block. Larry is fine and he is our only option when it comes to carrying the load in a heavy running game. Plus he has a huge new contract and unless he has a great year, he is untradeable. But wait, if he has a great year than you will love him again. Either way get used to Larry pal.

[Big Daddy Tek]

I am tired of seeing LJ suck, if we could trade him, I'd love to see a veteran lineman or wr to come over.
Everyone will suck until the Chiefs can run block. Larry is fine and he is our only option when it comes to carrying the load in a heavy running game. Plus he has a huge new contract and unless he has a great year, he is untradeable. But wait, if he has a great year than you will love him again. Either way get used to Larry pal.

[leaves]

I was simply commenting if we COULD trade him, if I failed to say could before. I understand he won't be getting traded right after a contract extension. If he had a great season, I would like him significantly more again (like every fan of every team in every place does with players..its a business). Also, lj staggers far too much, and hasnt worked as hard since he got his deal. I dont hate lj, i drafted him in every draft since 2005 except for this one. He was my favorite player, but its time for the franchise to stop sacrificing the team for him.

[Big Daddy Tek]

Where did you get your sig. leaves? That plate is awsome.

[leaves]

thanks, i picked out some pics and the structure, and a friend of mine who does sig contests made it. I was pretty impressed w/ his end result.

[Big Daddy Tek]

yeah, cause that one is cool.

[jtandcrew]

Everyone will suck until the Chiefs can run block. Larry is fine and he is our only option when it comes to carrying the load in a heavy running game. Plus he has a huge new contract and unless he has a great year, he is untradeable. But wait, if he has a great year than you will love him again. Either way get used to Larry pal.


I agree about the blocking! Although, LJ can still be traded! The Chiefs can always work out a deal with another team and then allow them to restructure his contract. Not saying thats going to happen but I, personally woulda liked to see him traded before or during the pre-season. I think a combo of Smith and Charles can carry the load IMO.

[Three7s]

The blocking wouldn't be as big of an issue if we had Kolby or Charles running it for us. LJ is too big and slow to make those swift cuts to elude guys, and can't get in open space quick enough to bull-doze over guys.

I did see LJ hit some holes, it just looks like he's lost a lot of acceleration.

[jtandcrew]

The blocking wouldn't be as big of an issue if we had Kolby or Charles running it for us. LJ is too big and slow to make those swift cuts to elude guys, and can't get in open space quick enough to bull-doze over guys.

I did see LJ hit some holes, it just looks like he's lost a lot of acceleration.


Although im for trading LJ I cant blame his lack of production on him. He hasnt been given the chance to run outside really and we dont have the O-line we used to. Im just saying with the line we have I think Smith, Charles and Savage are better suited. Although LJ does have the break tackling ability more than Charles and Savage. I would like to see if we could get a nice O-lineman outta the trade! We shoulda never let Lilja go back in the Vermiel era!

[leaves]

jt i must agree w/ u. LJ did kinda get screwed over, as hes pretty much just been established as an up the gut guy.

right now i dont think lj's too much better than charles at breaking, but jamaal's not that great @ it, hes just fast. However, i have rarely seen kolby go down on the 1st hit, hes spun out of 3+ tackles on a play before.

[arrowheadGoon305]

LJ is our best option, when it cumz down 2 running...nothing else 2 say

[OTR Chiefs fan]

I think you'll see some steady improvement in the o-line week by week. Then you'll see LJ's production increase as well. I say have some patience. :D

[Chiefster]

I think you'll see some steady improvement in the o-line week by week. Then you'll see LJ's production increase as well. I say have some patience. :D


Time will tell; I hope you're right!