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View Full Version : Maybe Herms not the answer, but Dick Vermeil left us in shambles!



Big Daddy Tek
09-16-2008, 01:52 AM
Dick Vermeil was one of the worst things that ever happened to this franchise. Herm Edwards didnt kill that offense. Roaf retired, then Shields retired, Trent Greens head bounced of the turf like a basketball. Dick left Herm with the oldest team in the NFL and the worst defense in the NFL. Dick is responsible for some of the worst drafts that the Chiefs have ever had and thier is only a handfull of those players that are still in the NFL today. The Chiefs had 2 Options: Build through free agency or build through the draft. For 15 years they built through free agency. They ended up with Herm Edwards who just happened to be the guy in charge of scouting for all of those years in the 90's that we all so fondly remember. Whether you like Herms coaching or not (I dont right now) you cant deny the fact that he knows how to evaluate players. The chiefs made the decision to rebuild and because of where Dick left us, we had to start from the ground up. Carl and Dick put together an old team with a small window and that window is closed. Move on, because it will be awhile before it opens again!

AkChief49
09-16-2008, 04:33 AM
It will require a bit of patience. Which, understandably is wearing thin on some but not all fans. I'm for giving them a little time. But that's me. I really like the fact that these players are young and more important, home grown. I may lose it a few times (o,k I will lose it a few times) during the growing period, but that's all part of being a fanatic! If there is no emotion....what's the point? I'm not looking through red colored glasses or drinking from the Kool-aid fountain. It might get worse before it gets better-or it could get better faster...who knows? One thing for sure is they need to get this taste of losing out their mouth...and nothing like fresh falcon meat for that!!!!GO CHIEFS!!!!!!

Seek
09-16-2008, 02:26 PM
When DV took over the Chiefs, Guther left them in shambles. In one year he took one of the worste offenses in the NFL and made them the best. He did it by signing unwanted players like Trent Green, Priest Holmes, Eddie Kennison, Willie Roaf, Casey Wiegmann, Todd Collins and Damon Huard.

He also failed with signing players like Dexter McCleon, Shawn Barber, and Vonnie Holiday and tried to fix it by drafting horrible players like Ryan Sims, Eddie Freeman, Jr. Siavii, yet he clearly hit on Jared Allen, Derrick Johnson, LJ, Dustin Colquitt, and converted Brian Waters,

As Herm took over a team in shambles he signed the unwanted players of Ty Law, Big Mac, Donnie Edwards, Ron Edwards, James Reed, Nap Harris, Adrian Jones, the kick return from the Lions whose name I already forgot, John McGraw ... I can't name one FA that Herm has signed that I think was a good signing and a bunch of others who didn't see the light of day.

My point.. When a new coach takes over it is usually in shambles. That is why they left.... DV came in with a plan, implemented it and turned the team into a competitive play off team.

Herm came in, did nothing, signed some guys in an effort to remain competitive from DV's team, failed and then developed a plan and is just now starting to implement it.

Had Herm started his plan year one, we could be winning now like DV did.

The blame can only be pointed at one HC and that is Herm. He has had this team now for three years and he had no direction on where it should be. That is not DV fault.

tornadospotter
09-16-2008, 02:46 PM
When DV took over the Chiefs, Guther left them in shambles. In one year he took one of the worste offenses in the NFL and made them the best. He did it by signing unwanted players like Trent Green, Priest Holmes, Eddie Kennison, Willie Roaf, Casey Wiegmann, Todd Collins and Damon Huard.

He also failed with signing players like Dexter McCleon, Shawn Barber, and Vonnie Holiday and tried to fix it by drafting horrible players like Ryan Sims, Eddie Freeman, Jr. Siavii, yet he clearly hit on Jared Allen, Derrick Johnson, LJ, Dustin Colquitt, and converted Brian Waters,

As Herm took over a team in shambles he signed the unwanted players of Ty Law, Big Mac, Donnie Edwards, Ron Edwards, James Reed, Nap Harris, Adrian Jones, the kick return from the Lions whose name I already forgot, John McGraw ... I can't name one FA that Herm has signed that I think was a good signing and a bunch of others who didn't see the light of day.

My point.. When a new coach takes over it is usually in shambles. That is why they left.... DV came in with a plan, implemented it and turned the team into a competitive play off team.

Herm came in, did nothing, signed some guys in an effort to remain competitive from DV's team, failed and then developed a plan and is just now starting to implement it.

Had Herm started his plan year one, we could be winning now like DV did.

The blame can only be pointed at one HC and that is Herm. He has had this team now for three years and he had no direction on where it should be. That is not DV fault.
I do not think this is correct place to put blame for the condition that the our team is rebuilding! We all know we loved the team we had with DV, we also know that in that time period, we had great O-line, we also know they were getting older! CP job as GM, should be plan of replacing, or developing the team players, Head Coach should be coaching!!!!, the players! cp bought into a DV short term plan to get to the SB for Lamar, it failed! So the team now is in a full rebuild, and homer am I, I still think we will win every game we play, but we are going to get better. Karl Peterson has done some good things in his time at KC, but he needs to go now! By trying to buy a team with DV, for a possible win now for Lamar, before he passed away. We did not develop replacement players in the trenches!
jmo

m0ef0e
09-16-2008, 02:54 PM
As far as scouting talent to rebuild with, Herm does an excellent job. I do not like his coaching decisions in the game, though. My worst beef is with the offensive game plan. To call it vanilla would be giving it too much credit for flavor and color. This offensive scheme is more like rice cakes...

Whether that is more Herm's or Chan's fault doesn't much matter to me. It seriously looks like an offense my mom might draw up. Too simple, too easy to read, TOO PREDICTABLE. If this is Gaily's fault, then it's also Herm's fault for not planting his foot in the OC's @$$.

Seek
09-16-2008, 05:29 PM
I do not think this is correct place to put blame for the condition that the our team is rebuilding! We all know we loved the team we had with DV, we also know that in that time period, we had great O-line, we also know they were getting older! CP job as GM, should be plan of replacing, or developing the team players, Head Coach should be coaching!!!!, the players! cp bought into a DV short term plan to get to the SB for Lamar, it failed! So the team now is in a full rebuild, and homer am I, I still think we will win every game we play, but we are going to get better. Karl Peterson has done some good things in his time at KC, but he needs to go now! By trying to buy a team with DV, for a possible win now for Lamar, before he passed away. We did not develop replacement players in the trenches!
jmo

This is Herm's third year as HC. It is not his first. The fact that it took him two years before he started to rebuild, and based on the failed attempt to build off DV's team. This is 100% Herm and CP's fault.

Now if Herm was to rebuild after his first year here. That would be DV's fault. The sole fact that Herm dragged an aging team out another two years is not DV's fault.

DV was building a team to win right away. It was never his intent to build a team for the long term. We alll knew that. That is why CP highered him.

chief addict
09-16-2008, 10:04 PM
I can't believe people are knocking Dick Vermiel. I don't think I've ever seen more exciting Chiefs football since I've been watching them. He had a lot of bust draft picks, but was a much better coach than Herm will ever be.

drstandley31
09-17-2008, 01:34 AM
We've got a guy that's lost 11 straight. Lost the last 2 to the F'ing raiders in our house, and you're knocking the last guy that was here, who had a pretty good record as I recall. He's supposed to be a D-guy!! as he calls himself. Has had 3 years to get "His" D-guys here and play "his" D-ball. And the F'n raiders, without thier starting RB run for over half the game, romp for 300 yards, yes chief fans, 300 yards in our stadium. And you want to blame the last guy.

Wake Up!!! No coach walks into a wonderful situation, but Herm, with help from Carl, has taken us from good to awful. He's no head coach. He's defeated before he starts a game. He has his team defeated before they start the game, he has no idea how to win and his overall record is proof enough. he sucks! But he's lost another QB, so the excuses continue to mount for him.

drstandley31
09-17-2008, 01:37 AM
And maybe Dick didn't take us all the way, but I had a lot more fun watching his teams win regular season games, than I do watching the scum like oakland, the lions, texans, browns, denver & the jets kick our a$$. And to have oakland do it twice in a row in our house just shows no heart. this team wasn't ready to play, and the fact that they ran all over us proves it. No Heart! I don't know how Tony G. can stand walking on that field.

Three7s
09-17-2008, 01:56 AM
I agree. Dick was one of the best things ever to happen to the Chiefs. He got us a 13-3 record...unfortunately our first playoff game was against the great manning! but had we gotten past Peyton...maybe we would have won the ring! Vermiel gave us a team that HAD A CHANCE TO WIN IT ALL!! YOU AND I ALL KNOW THAT WE HAD A CHANCE TO!!!

but we didnt get it done. Such is life, you take a risk on great players and you may or may not win it all.

Thank you Dicky V for your years as commander in CHIEF
While I agree that we could've gotten by the Colts, the Pats would've been big trouble, especially in their house.

m0ef0e
09-17-2008, 03:34 AM
I can't believe people are knocking Dick Vermiel. I don't think I've ever seen more exciting Chiefs football since I've been watching them. He had a lot of bust draft picks, but was a much better coach than Herm will ever be.

I agree completely. Rep.

teamcool68
09-17-2008, 03:44 AM
exciting? sure, the offense was great. i can't say i enjoyed seeing a team put up the offensive numbers the chiefs used to and still losing often, though. or STILL never having a single reason to be excited for january.

Seek
09-17-2008, 02:48 PM
exciting? sure, the offense was great. i can't say i enjoyed seeing a team put up the offensive numbers the chiefs used to and still losing often, though. or STILL never having a single reason to be excited for january.

As a season ticket holder we we went into every game thinking we could win under DV. It was exciting. Now we go into every game hoping for a win. Yeah, I didn't like losing a close one becuase our defense failed in the 4th quarter. But I really hate watching Herms team fail in the first drive, and then have to endure crap the rest of the game.

Big Daddy Tek
09-21-2008, 12:57 PM
As a season ticket holder we we went into every game thinking we could win under DV. It was exciting. Now we go into every game hoping for a win. Yeah, I didn't like losing a close one becuase our defense failed in the 4th quarter. But I really hate watching Herms team fail in the first drive, and then have to endure crap the rest of the game.
That has nothing to do with the fact that Dick left us in bad shape.

drstandley31
09-21-2008, 01:32 PM
He did get left with an old team, and he and Carl made it worst. It's not either/or. You build through both free agency and the draft. I don't think you run out and find a great player with 2 years left and sign him, but I also don't think you put your entire future in the hand of all draft picks. Half those guys won't make it anyway, but lets say they do. Let's say they are all really good players, then what? in 3 to 4 years when they finally become productive, they are all up for free agency at the same time, and no money to sign them all, so you start dealing them for more draft picks. You can't build a winning team solely through a couple years of big draft picks. But that's not even the real point; You could hand Herm the Colts, and he'd have them with ther tail between their legs in 2 months. He can find good talent, he just can't coach them! A team takes on the personality of it's coach, and that's not the personality that's going to motivate a team to dominate. We can end this argument now, because it's pointless, we see it differently. I think they had a big hill to climb, and made some very bad decisions along the way.

wolfpack
09-21-2008, 05:06 PM
while going young is good,we went to young. 30 mil under the cap, we should have spent some of it.A tleast with dickies teams we always seemed in it. Hermmies teams always seemed out,

tornadospotter
09-21-2008, 05:13 PM
while going young is good,we went to young. 30 mil under the cap, we should have spent some of it.A tleast with dickies teams we always seemed in it. Hermmies teams always seemed out,
true, and we could always think we could win even if down by 2 or 3 scores! But cp should have been looking and finding replacement players for Will and Willi.

Bike
09-21-2008, 07:43 PM
the dumbest decision the chiefs made was spending all of their money on LJ. That is money that we can never get back.
Agreed. We could learn something from Shanahan in that respect.

Bike
09-21-2008, 07:46 PM
true, and we could always think we could win even if down by 2 or 3 scores! But cp should have been looking and finding replacement players for Will and Willi.
Yep. OL got real old real quick, and then they were gone. CP's shortsightness is inexcusable...

tornadospotter
09-21-2008, 08:01 PM
Agreed. We could learn something from Shanahan in that respect.
Ouch that hurts!!!!!!!! The only way I would like that donkey stinking coach, is if he was totally
:character00264: Cleaned of :character00109::piss::character0074:immunized and then :character00129::DrLight: converted to a :character0013:
Chiefs fan! Then maybe!:D

Bike
09-21-2008, 08:08 PM
Ouch that hurts!!!!!!!! The only way I would like that donkey stinking coach, is if he was totally
:character00264: Cleaned of :character00109::piss::character0074:immunized and then :character00129::DrLight: converted to a :character0013:
Chiefs fan! Then maybe!:D
:lol: :lol:
Yeah, but...He's taken donkos to SB 5 times!! Hate em.

Seek
09-21-2008, 10:03 PM
That has nothing to do with the fact that Dick left us in bad shape.

You are right, but if you would check my post I was quoting someone else stating that DV's teams were not exciting due to the lack of defense and zero superbowl.

DV turned a bad team around in one year. Herm could have done the same. Just as Bill Parcels is doing in Miami. He just failed at doing so and now it is DV fault for trying to do what he was hired to do. Win

Bike
09-21-2008, 10:09 PM
You are right, but if you would check my post I was quoting someone else stating that DV's teams were not exciting due to the lack of defense and zero superbowl.

DV turned a bad team around in one year. Herm could have done the same. Just as Bill Parcels is doing in Miami. He just failed at doing so and now it is DV fault for trying to do what he was hired to do. Win
Yep. Winning cures a lot of ills. Parcels is a winner.
Peterson is not. I don't really blame Herm for this catastrophy, I blame CP for bringing him here...

teamcool68
09-22-2008, 01:06 AM
As a season ticket holder we we went into every game thinking we could win under DV. It was exciting. Now we go into every game hoping for a win. Yeah, I didn't like losing a close one becuase our defense failed in the 4th quarter. But I really hate watching Herms team fail in the first drive, and then have to endure crap the rest of the game.


we went into every *regular season* game thinking we could win under DV.

again, exciting, but nothing more than a short-term shimmer. if you want to bash herm that's fine i guess. but you can't honestly say dv did anything more than give false hope.

tornadospotter
09-22-2008, 01:28 AM
we went into every *regular season* game thinking we could win under DV.

again, exciting, but nothing more than a short-term shimmer. if you want to bash herm that's fine i guess. but you can't honestly say dv did anything more than give false hope.
Very true! But it was fun to watch! Do not take me wrong here, I hated the lack of defense under DV, I am a long time fan that remembers the days of solid defense! The Chiefs were known as a strong defensive team. Teams use to fear facing the Red Hats!!! My fear is that herm does not instill that tradition into the players! Where is the passion to win! DV did show that on the side lines, and to the players! Do we see any of that from hermie? I think not, so what type of coach is herm, a non emotional strategist, well non emotional maybe! Strategist, where is it? I find myself actually wanting Marty back, even after the fact that he did screw us by not picking Gannon over that other qb.
(yes i know the name just not worthy of being posted here).

Three7s
09-22-2008, 01:30 AM
Very true! But it was fun to watch! Do not take me wrong here, I hated the lack of defense under DV, I am a long time fan that remembers the days of solid defense! The Chiefs were known as a strong defensive team. Teams use to fear facing the Red Hats!!! My fear is that herm does not instill that tradition into the players! Where is the passion to win! DV did show that on the side lines, and to the players! Do we see any of that from hermie? I think not, so what type of coach is herm, a non emotional strategist, well non emotional maybe! Strategist, where is it? I find myself actually wanting Marty back, even after the fact that he did screw us by not picking Gannon over that other qb.
I'd take Marty back in an instant.

Seek
09-22-2008, 01:53 PM
we went into every *regular season* game thinking we could win under DV.

again, exciting, but nothing more than a short-term shimmer. if you want to bash herm that's fine i guess. but you can't honestly say dv did anything more than give false hope.

I can honestly say that spending my day out at Arrowhead on Sunday's was fun when DV was here. I can't say that now. It feels like a waste of a day.

I thought we had a chance to beat Indy. If it wasn't for Bartee jumping offsides when The Colts did punt. That game would have been different.

I am declining free tickets this Sunday because I just don't care to watch the product Herm is providing. Instead I am going to play golf with my son and then watch the game of DVR.

I am tired of the LIES that Herm spews from his mouth. "If Thigpen struggles, Huard will play" NOPE. In the play off game against Indy. "if a player is struggling and another player gives us a change to play. I will play him" Nope again.