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View Full Version : When is coaching going tobe held accountable?



wolfpack
10-05-2008, 06:23 PM
went to see jeff dunham last night and recorded the mizzo-neb game. the chiefs game was so bad i started watching that game at halftime. thats how bad i thought it got. Sooner or latter hermmie and his flunkies got to held accountable. yea, i know its the players but it starts at the top.

greg3564
10-05-2008, 06:32 PM
It's not all the players fault. The coaching has been absolutely terrible. I mean, to not even score at all?

Hayvern
10-05-2008, 06:35 PM
Coaching will be held accountable about the time Jonathan Rand publishes a scathing coaching review on the Chief's website.

nigeriannightmare
10-05-2008, 06:51 PM
Hey Texas Chief, how much more inconsistency do you have to see from Herm's teams. Let me guess we're young, these are growing pains that we must endure for years to come, but hey the guy can find talented players and has good drafts. GOOD JOB HERM!!!!!!!

....and I don't want to hear it was Huard's fault, there's plenty of blame to spread around....

greg3564
10-05-2008, 07:31 PM
Not Huards fault. The whole team had a meltdown. Mr. Power Rusher, Larry Johnson, racked up a whopping 2 yards on 7 attempts. This team, from Clark Hunt all the way down to the players, are in a meltdown like we've not ever seen before. Hunt should be lining up a new GM and head coach this week. Really, what do we have to lose this year by cutting all ties to the Carl and Herm show? Kepp the assistant coaches until the end of the season and jettison them too.

127markaz
10-05-2008, 07:53 PM
"You Play to Win the Game"!:sign0153::sign0153::sign0153::sign0153::sign0153 :

McLovin
10-06-2008, 02:15 AM
I wouldnt be totally against Herm as a GM as long as he stayed out of the coaching. He has proven he can draft but also proven he cant coach.
Lane Kiffen is available and I have heard some talk of different teams trying to bring Cowher back. Hmmm other thoughts, Imagine how the fanbase would be rejuvinated if there was a third coaching search in 2 weeks.

Other then that this team is NOT nearly as bad as they looked.

texaschief
10-06-2008, 03:35 AM
Hey Texas Chief, how much more inconsistency do you have to see from Herm's teams. Let me guess we're young, these are growing pains that we must endure for years to come, but hey the guy can find talented players and has good drafts. GOOD JOB HERM!!!!!!!

....and I don't want to hear it was Huard's fault, there's plenty of blame to spread around....

You think we're inconsistent now? Just wait till we start firing and hiring new coaches every other year. How has that worked out for the Raiders, Rams, Lions, Dolphins, 49ers, Falcons etc?

Basically, by saying this is all Herm Edward's fault, you're saying that he is sending 52 guys, 22 starters out there on that field who don't know how to execute a simple game plan. If what you see on the field is a total lack of comprehension of any play, which is to say, you see most of the players executing different plays on any one single snap, then yeah, I'd say it was coaching.

But when the players just simply aren't executing what they've been coached to do, that's on the players. So, either the players just aren't talented, they're young and inexperienced, or they're stupid.

Constantly changing coaching staffs, offensive and defensive schemes and overall football philosophies isn't going to solve this problem. Each coach needs a couple seasons to bring in coaches and players that best "fit" their coaching styles and philosophies.

What I think, is that Edwards came into a really bad situation. 2003 and 2004 were the years that the Chiefs had their best chance to make a deep run. Vermeil knew his team couldn't compete for a title anymore, so he retired and left his mess for someone else to clean up. Edwards came in in 2006, made very few adjustments to the coaching staff and tried to go as deep as the team could go. Could you imagine the sh!# storm he would've had, had he come in and started changing things from the get go in 2006?

The fact that the Chiefs made the playoffs with that old team in 2006 made his situation even worse because Carl tied Edward's hands during the 2007 offseason because Carl thought the window was still open for that Chiefs team. It was ultimately fool's gold as Croyle couldn't take over the starting spot, the team got old, LJ got hurt, the line got hurt and sustained retirements and ended up 4-12.

This past offseason was the year that Carl and Herm sat down with ownership and decided to pursue this "rebuilding" path. Like i said in another thread, this is NOT the third year of a rebuilding plan. This is the FIRST year. They traded Allen and ultimately ended up with 12 draft picks and got rave reviews for their draft. Can you imagine what this team would look like if they were able to have two or even three drafts like the one they had this past spring?

That is why I ultimately lay the blame of this horrible team at the feet of Peterson (foremost) and Vermeil. If this team had drafted better during the Vermeil era, this team wouldn't have to rely on having four or five outstanding draft classes to get back to being competitive.

Do I think Herman Edwards is the best coach in the league? No. He has his faults and at times does seem lost. But like i said, i think he was set up for failure and it's going to take some rough years to climb out of this hole. I wish this franchise had some foresight and could've seen the retirements and old age of this franchise coming in 2006 and had traded guys like Larry Johnson while their stock was high to help this rebuild happen a little faster. But, Carl is a horrible GM and a great President of Operations. We need a new GM, not a new coach.

hardcorechiefsfan
10-06-2008, 07:53 AM
went to see jeff dunham last night and recorded the mizzo-neb game. the chiefs game was so bad i started watching that game at halftime. thats how bad i thought it got. Sooner or latter hermmie and his flunkies got to held accountable. yea, i know its the players but it starts at the top.

I agree with you there totally(by the way, who won the Mizzou game?)I started watching the chiefs game but when there wasn't anything to watch I decided to watch my netflix movie. Ever so often I stopped it so I could check in on the chiefs game but it was already 0-34 so I watched the rest of the movie(anything had to be better!).
I remember way back when the chiefs had a fearsome defense; you knew they were going to win if they were really wracking up the penalties. Also... the chiefs used to always win at home, other teams hated it if they had to play at arrowhead.
I think that the chiefs need some kind of motivation, motivation they aren't getting from Hermie. The chiefs' mascot is a motivational speaker - why don't they hire wolfie to motivate them?

chief31
10-06-2008, 10:45 AM
You think we're inconsistent now? Just wait till we start firing and hiring new coaches every other year. How has that worked out for the Raiders, Rams, Lions, Dolphins, 49ers, Falcons etc?

Basically, by saying this is all Herm Edward's fault, you're saying that he is sending 52 guys, 22 starters out there on that field who don't know how to execute a simple game plan. If what you see on the field is a total lack of comprehension of any play, which is to say, you see most of the players executing different plays on any one single snap, then yeah, I'd say it was coaching.

But when the players just simply aren't executing what they've been coached to do, that's on the players. So, either the players just aren't talented, they're young and inexperienced, or they're stupid.

Constantly changing coaching staffs, offensive and defensive schemes and overall football philosophies isn't going to solve this problem. Each coach needs a couple seasons to bring in coaches and players that best "fit" their coaching styles and philosophies.

What I think, is that Edwards came into a really bad situation. 2003 and 2004 were the years that the Chiefs had their best chance to make a deep run. Vermeil knew his team couldn't compete for a title anymore, so he retired and left his mess for someone else to clean up. Edwards came in in 2006, made very few adjustments to the coaching staff and tried to go as deep as the team could go. Could you imagine the sh!# storm he would've had, had he come in and started changing things from the get go in 2006?

The fact that the Chiefs made the playoffs with that old team in 2006 made his situation even worse because Carl tied Edward's hands during the 2007 offseason because Carl thought the window was still open for that Chiefs team. It was ultimately fool's gold as Croyle couldn't take over the starting spot, the team got old, LJ got hurt, the line got hurt and sustained retirements and ended up 4-12.

This past offseason was the year that Carl and Herm sat down with ownership and decided to pursue this "rebuilding" path. Like i said in another thread, this is NOT the third year of a rebuilding plan. This is the FIRST year. They traded Allen and ultimately ended up with 12 draft picks and got rave reviews for their draft. Can you imagine what this team would look like if they were able to have two or even three drafts like the one they had this past spring?

That is why I ultimately lay the blame of this horrible team at the feet of Peterson (foremost) and Vermeil. If this team had drafted better during the Vermeil era, this team wouldn't have to rely on having four or five outstanding draft classes to get back to being competitive.

Do I think Herman Edwards is the best coach in the league? No. He has his faults and at times does seem lost. But like i said, i think he was set up for failure and it's going to take some rough years to climb out of this hole. I wish this franchise had some foresight and could've seen the retirements and old age of this franchise coming in 2006 and had traded guys like Larry Johnson while their stock was high to help this rebuild happen a little faster. But, Carl is a horrible GM and a great President of Operations. We need a new GM, not a new coach.

Nice speech. (Seriously.)

But when Vermiel retired, everyone knew that the rebuild was on. Maybe not a full-on rebuild, but it was quite evidently unerway.

The Jared Allen/Larry Johnson handling was a complete mess. I'll grant you that. But during neither of those first two drafts were they not in rebuild mode.

Vermiels drafts certainly weren't very good. He probably could have benefitted from having a good player-scout around. Herm Edwards would have been a good one.

But Herm Edwards needs a good head coach around.

Actually, I only have one major beef with Herm. You already know what that is. He doesn't even just fail at finding offense, as Vermiel failed at finding defense. He refuses to try and find offense.

But, that one major beef that I have with him tends to spill over into everything else about the guy.

I like Herms personality. I really do. But even that which I like about him, becomes irritating when he continues to gorge himself in neglect for the offense.

And it is that one major flaw, coupled with some other lesser flaws, that has me convinced that he should not be a head coach in The NFL.

You seem to believe that it is supposed to take 4-6 years to build an NFL team from scratch, yet Vermiel did it within three season, with each of the three teams that he took over. And Bill Cowher did it with The Steelers. How many times have we seen The Tuna right a wrecked ship in a couple of seasons?

Good coaches do that. Herm Edwards took a good Tuna-built team in NY, and created a big fat loser, and he is three years deep into this project, and has created competition for The Detroit Lions.

Every week that Herm stays here, is another week that we will have to wait for a good coach to get started on the program.

Seek
10-06-2008, 11:03 AM
Just be patient. It is only a matter of time before Herm throws Gunther under the bus in attempt to divert the attention away from him.

chief31
10-06-2008, 11:31 AM
Just be patient. It is only a matter of time before Herm throws Gunther under the bus in attempt to divert the attention away from him.

I am a patience expert. (Cubs fan.) :drunkhb:

hardcorechiefsfan
10-07-2008, 01:11 AM
Just be patient. It is only a matter of time before Herm throws Gunther under the bus in attempt to divert the attention away from him.

I just had an idea! How about we throw Hermie under the bus?

hardcorechiefsfan
10-07-2008, 01:21 AM
Every week that Herm stays here, is another week that we will have to wait for a good coach to get started on the program.

I figured that Peckerson would of gotten rid of Hermie after the first season with him the chiefs sucked bad. And then the second season came around, the chiefs sucked bad and Hermie is still coach. I am thinking that Hermie must have something on Peckerson.

Hey maybe Peckerson and Hermie are lovers and have a love child somewhere! :lol:

greg3564
10-07-2008, 01:39 AM
I figured that Peckerson would of gotten rid of Hermie after the first season with him the chiefs sucked bad. And then the second season came around, the chiefs sucked bad and Hermie is still coach. I am thinking that Hermie must have something on Peckerson.

Hey maybe Peckerson and Hermie are lovers and have a love child somewhere! :lol:

Carl won't get rid of Herm. Reason is that Herm was Carl's pet project. Carl sold us down the river. If he gets rid of Herm, it reflects badly on Carl's reputation(if there's much left).

hardcorechiefsfan
10-07-2008, 01:44 AM
:mob:

Hayvern
10-08-2008, 01:58 AM
I figured that Peckerson would of gotten rid of Hermie after the first season with him the chiefs sucked bad. And then the second season came around, the chiefs sucked bad and Hermie is still coach. I am thinking that Hermie must have something on Peckerson.

Hey maybe Peckerson and Hermie are lovers and have a love child somewhere! :lol:
When you give up draft picks, even low picks to bring a coach in, you do not throw that coach away in one, two or even three seasons.

chief31
10-08-2008, 05:30 AM
I figured that Peckerson would of gotten rid of Hermie after the first season with him the chiefs sucked bad. And then the second season came around, the chiefs sucked bad and Hermie is still coach. I am thinking that Hermie must have something on Peckerson.

Hey maybe Peckerson and Hermie are lovers and have a love child somewhere! :lol:

I think they named him Bill Bidwell.

127markaz
10-08-2008, 10:49 AM
I think they named him Bill Bidwell. Now that's funny!:bananen_smilies046: Having lived in Phoenix the past 17 years I can tell you first hand you need not know anything about football and still own a team. The point here is the owner selects the GM and in most cases, takes a backseat. Isn't that riight Lane?? Is Rod Graves (Cards GM) as bad as 2008 Carl? I dunno. But miraculously he brought in one Ken Whissenhunt who is an incredible head coach. The players would take a bullet for him. That's after a Denny Green stint that could have been far worse. Bottom line, the Cards cut their losses short and dumped Green as it was obvious that no player bought into the BS of that wastoid. I think the same is true for the Chiefs. The general has lost his troops and nobody's buying in. Sadly I must say that if the Chiefs played the Cards this Sunday (Herm vs. Ken), I'll take the Cards and give 17. It's pathetic that I would even think that. Cut your losses short Carl and pull the plug on a proven loser!
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp135/127markaz/herm.jpg Yeah.....RIGHT!

chief31
10-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Now that's funny!:bananen_smilies046: Having lived in Phoenix the past 17 years I can tell you first hand you need not know anything about football and still own a team. The point here is the owner selects the GM and in most cases, takes a backseat. Isn't that riight Lane?? Is Rod Graves (Cards GM) as bad as 2008 Carl? I dunno. But miraculously he brought in one Ken Whissenhunt who is an incredible head coach. The players would take a bullet for him. That's after a Denny Green stint that could have been far worse. Bottom line, the Cards cut their losses short and dumped Green as it was obvious that no player bought into the BS of that wastoid. I think the same is true for the Chiefs. The general has lost his troops and nobody's buying in. Sadly I must say that if the Chiefs played the Cards this Sunday (Herm vs. Ken), I'll take the Cards and give 17. It's pathetic that I would even think that. Cut your losses short Carl and pull the plug on a proven loser!
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/ Yeah.....RIGHT!

Glad you found that amusing. Lol. It was actually for Drunkhillbilly, who lives in Az.

But I like what The Cardinals are doing so far this season. I kinda like Dennis Green too though. He at least had his specialty. (Offense)

jtandcrew
10-08-2008, 11:12 AM
When you give up draft picks, even low picks to bring a coach in, you do not throw that coach away in one, two or even three seasons.


I disagree. After the start, multiple QB starts, and the poor play besides Denver and NE? Its time for Clark Hunt to cut bait and fish somewhere else. Herm and Carl needs to go and wouldnt be opposed to Kuharich going either since he was trained by Carl and is groomed to be his replacement. Carl has made a killing putting mediocre teams on the field and making the team money regardless of what the outcome. Herm has made a killing by being a mediocre coach. Same as Kuharich riding Carl's coat tails.

127markaz
10-08-2008, 11:19 AM
Good point, chief31. And judging from the Panthers game, Green would be an upgrade from nothing. The Cards situation is proof that a head coach DOES make a difference. Throughout the various Boards I am amazed at those who support Herm/Carl. Like any business, it's results that count. Herm has proven he can't deliver what he promised during his interview. But take solice, Herm's 3 year plan looks damn good compared to Bidwell's 21 year plan. Kudos to all the Chiefs fan for filling up Arrowhead during this PLAGUE!!!!

rbedgood
10-09-2008, 03:01 PM
^^^another Arizona member. Score one for the rednecks. :D