When will ChiefsCrowd.com hit 100,000 posts?

[Coach]

When will ChiefsCrowd.com hit 100,000 posts?
On or Before October 14th
October 15th or after.

I'll juice up the odds to help the arrowcash economy.

[tammietailgator]

How many posts are we at right now? or is that a secret?:D

[Coach]

99,181. It can be found at the bottom of the forum homepage if you want to keep track of our progress.

[tammietailgator]

Alright! I will do my damnedest! I think we can do it!:yahoo:

[Guru]

I will put all my money on it happening before the 14th. Consider it jinxed now because I never win. heh

[Guru]

Damn! No multiple betting as we earn more fantasy money?

[Coach]

You can bet multiple times.

[tammietailgator]

I will put all my money on it happening before the 14th. Consider it jinxed now because I never win. heh

Hey we have a week to talk about not losing this week!!! That should get a lot of posts! :bananen_smilies046:

Your not jinxed Guru! Lets get it done!

[Canada]

You got a prize for 100 000th post? I am just gonna keep typing BEER for a couple of weeks!!

[tammietailgator]

I think you should get arrowcash for that idea!!:bananen_smilies046:

Beer

[Canada]

Beer

[Guru]

You can bet multiple times.

:lol: I would have made the change myself but didn't want to step on your thread.

[Guru]

Beer
Pretzels

[tammietailgator]

Pretzels


I dunno guru... pretzels is harder to type than beer ---- beer just kinda rolls off your fingers

I would pick chips - or nuts! Much easier :D

[Canada]

heh heh ....nuts

[Guru]

I dunno guru... pretzels is harder to type than beer ---- beer just kinda rolls off your fingers

I would pick chips - or nuts! Much easier :D

She said nuts. http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/buschick/library/butthead.gif

[Canada]

:lol::funnypost:

[rbedgood]

She said nuts. http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/10.jpg


I am Cornholio....

Oh and for Chiefster and I...Root Beer

[Guru]

I am Cornholio....

Oh and for Chiefster and I...Root Beer

NO that is this one...

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/10.jpg

[rbedgood]

NO that is this one...

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/10.jpg

you are correct sir...someone call hermhater...we'll get paid off on this bet before sunrise.

[Guru]

you are correct sir...someone call hermhater...we'll get paid off on this bet before sunrise.

Hmm, maybe I should start posting a bunch of Wall Street Journal articles to build up my casino cash some more. heh

[rbedgood]

You'd better hurry...I'm guessing we hit the mark and the event pays out before tomorrow night.

[Guru]

Stocks fell for the seventh straight trading day on Thursday, continuing what amounts to a slow-motion crash that has pulled the market down more than 20% over that brief period.
On its way down, the Dow Jones Industrial Average broke through another milestone, closing below 9000 for the first time since 2003, wiping out the bulk of the gains from the last bull market. The decline leaves America in one of its worst bear markets in decades, a slump that is triggering comparisons to long-running declines of the 1930s and 1970s.
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/11.jpg (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122359593027021243.html#)

Dow Hits Seventh Straight Loss (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122359593027021243.html#)

1:35WSJ reporter Peter McKay speaks about the on-going crisis on Wall Street as the Dow hit its seventh straight loss. (Oct. 9)





Thursday's decline -- the 11th largest in percentage terms in the Dow's history -- put the stock market either in, or nearly in, a crash. A common definition of a crash is a 20% decline in a single day or several days. The Dow's crash in 1987 was 22.6% in one day. The 1929 crash was back-to-back declines of 12.8% and 11.7%.
This week's relentless selloff has been driven by deepening fears about the banking system, and the spillover effects it may have on the rest of the economy. Investors were spooked on Thursday by a Standard & Poor's report raising the possibility that General Motors Corp.'s debt will be downgraded. Its stock fell 31%, closing at its lowest price since 1950, according to data from the University of Chicago.
In Asia Friday, markets plunged. Tokyo's Nikkei Stock Average ended down 9.6%, while Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index was down 7% in recent trading. (See related article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122359980505421531.html).)
The market rout in the U.S. is rapidly wiping out vast amounts of wealth, casting a pall over households and businesses. U.S. stocks, as measured by the Dow Jones Wilshire 5000, shed $872 billion in market value on Thursday, $2.5 trillion over the last seven trading sessions, and $8.4 trillion since hitting an all-time high one year ago Thursday. The index includes almost all U.S. public companies.
[/URL]


Although the specific economic problems are different than in the 1970s or the 1930s, the markets are now behaving in a similar way. Although they rally, sometimes for extended periods, they eventually give back most of their gains as investor faith in a recovery fades.
"We are in a secular bear market," says Russ Koesterich, head of investment strategy at Barclays Global Investors in San Francisco, using Wall Street jargon for this kind of prolonged weak period. Analysts distinguish between long-running "secular" periods and shorter-term bear markets, such as the one that occurred from 2000 through 2002.
"We had a secular bear market from 1968 to 1982, and another that began in 1929," Mr. Koesterich says. Stocks sometimes mount strong rallies during the lengthy weak periods. They nearly doubled in value from 2002 through 2007, but have since given back most of those gains.
Mr. Koesterich thinks some kind of sharp rally may be coming, but maybe not right away. "It will take government intervention and some kind of coordinated government effort to recapitalize the banking system," he says. "And right now, that isn't working."
Thursday's trading dragged the Dow industrials down 678.91 points, or 7.33%, to 8579.19, the lowest finish since May 2003, and the largest one-day percentage decline since 1987. The index is down 39% since hitting a record 14164.53 one year ago. The size of the Dow's recent declines surpasses anything seen in the past two bear markets, and is the largest seven-session percentage drop since the days surrounding the 1987 crash.
More


[URL="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-enlargePic07.html?project=imageShell07&bigImage=WSJ_DJIA_log3.gif&h=599&w=800&title=WSJ.COM&thePubDate=20080826%27,%27imageShell07%27,%27980%2 7,%27670%27,%27%28%5C%27off%5C%27?%5C%27scroll,res izable%5C%27:%5C%27resizable%5C%27%29%27,%27true%2 7,40,10"]Graphic: Bears That Won't Go Away (http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-slideshow08-preloader.swf?SLIDESHOWMINID)
GM, Ford Shares Fall on Cash Concerns (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122359479643121141.html)
Blue Chips Slide 678.91 Points, or 7.3% (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122354853453718755.html)
Complete Coverage: Wall Street in Crisis (http://online.wsj.com/public/page/wall-street-in-crisis.html)

As the day progressed, traders say, fear seemed to feed on itself, and people began selling stocks wholesale.
Some investors reacted badly to reports that the government is considering taking a direct financial holding in some major American banks -- a potential intervention intended to reassure the markets. The news fanned fears that the worst isn't over for the American banking system, and some investors are worried about bank failures.
The way some investors see it, if the government feels the need to intervene more drastically, the problem might be even larger than it had seemed. That kind of self-reinforcing fear is symptomatic of a secular bear market, where bearish sentiment trumps fundamentals.
"We've seen unprecedented intervention, and markets yawned it off. That shows how dire it is," says Greg Collins, chief executive of Fountain Hill Investments in Orlando, Fla.
"A lot of people are hopeful that this market will put in a bottom," he says. "Ultimately, they've been forced to get out of the way, because the selling pressure is so high. Every time there has been strength in the morning, everyone says maybe we'll get some type of bounce." Instead, he says, "strength has just been an opportunity to sell. Until we see some signs of stabilization, it is a trader's market."
During a long bullish period -- a secular bull market like the one between 1982 to 2000 -- investors become increasingly optimistic. They begin to ignore warning signals, pushing prices to unsustainable levels in the belief that stocks will remain strong for decades to come. Setbacks like the 1987 crash, which occurred early in that long bullish period, are remedied with unexpected speed, and before long optimism returns to markets. Investors treat dips as buying opportunities.
During long bear markets, that optimism is unwound. The process can take years, which is why secular bear markets can last for 14 years or longer, like the one from 1968 to 1982. Typically, such bear markets are accompanied by repeated economic disappointments, as excesses that developed during long periods of growth are unwound. That was true during the 1970s, and it seems to be the case now, although the underlying economic issues are different.
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/12.jpg


At the height of the 1990s bull market, the price of stocks in the Standard & Poor's 500 stock index rose to more than 30 times company profits, a record level that was more than twice the historical average. Between March 2000 and October 2002, the S&P 500 fell 49%, but its price-to-earnings ratio never fell to the historical average of 15 or 16.
To some market analysts, that meant stock values were still too high and investors were still too optimistic. During periods of stock-market weakness, price-to-earnings ratios eventually fall below their averages, sometimes into the high single digits, as they did during the last long-running bear market.
At Thursday's close, the price-to-earnings ratio of the S&P 500 was down to 10.7, the lowest since the early 1980s.
During the 1970s -- a period of oil-price spikes, rampant inflation and double-digit interest rates -- the Dow industrials staged several strong rallies, but always fell back again. The index rose 32% from November 1971 through January 1973, reaching 1051.70, only to fall 45% over the next two years, according to Ned Davis Research. The Dow kept reaching the 1000 level and falling back. It didn't leave that milestone behind until 1982.
The 1930s were an even more devastating period for the economy. Stocks gave up most of their value between 1929 and mid-1932, before entering a period of ups and downs. Gains were erased by repeated setbacks. Analysts say that a long-running bull market didn't begin again until 1942.
One big difference this time around is that policy makers are thought to be using far more effective tools than they did in either the 1930s or the 1970s. That has led many investors to hope that the damage may not be as severe this time around. But the hope is muted by the fact that no one knows how deep the financial crisis will be.

[Guru]

:lol:

[rbedgood]

:lol:
:mob: Not a laughing matter...:mob:

[Guru]

How about this...

The future of beer.

When Montana Brewing Co. won the "Small Brewpub of the Year" award at last year's Great American Beer Festival, owner Travis Zeilstra attributed much of his success to a Northwestern bitter hop called Northern Brewer, which he adds to 40% of his brews to achieve a bold flavor and clean aftertaste.
But when his current batch of hoppy beers runs out in the next month or two, Mr. Zeilstra will be forced to alter his prized recipes. Since the beginning of this year, his cost for Northern Brewer has increased from $5 a pound to $40. Mr. Zeilstra has grudgingly paid the new price on the spot market, but the cost is too much for him to continue, and even if he could, he would not be able to get a contract for the sought-after hop until 2013, as the upcoming harvests have already been contracted out to larger brewers.



Brewers are descending on Denver this week for the 27th annual Great American Beer Festival, the U.S.'s largest beer gathering in which nearly 2,000 brews compete. They are facing soaring costs and a shortage in hops, the plant used to give beer its bitterness, aroma and flavor. It was about this time last year that brewers first started to feel the impact of the current hop crisis -- a loss of 10,000 acres world-wide in 2007 -- caused by a bad crop from Europe, growing demand in Asia (where beer sales have increased 3% each year for the past half decade), and decades of reduced acreage in favor of real-estate development and more lucrative crops.
Since the summer of 2007, the shortage has pushed the cost of hops from around $3-$5 a pound to $20-$40 a pound. It has forced almost all craft brewers -- small, independent and traditional breweries -- to raise retail prices. Smaller brewers, who don't typically have contracts on hops, have had to pay the higher costs, alter recipes or turn to less hoppy brews such as wheat beers, stouts and Pilsners.
"It's been a struggle, but you have to be able to adapt," Montana Brewing Co.'s Mr. Zeilstra says. "I have a couple of other hops that I use as a substitute. Some of them will work very closely and are interchangeable, but others are not. We are just going to have to see how people react to them."
As hops prices have risen, so has consumer demand for the bolder beer styles hops provide, such as India Pale Ales (IPAs) and seasonal drafts like Oktoberfest beers and pumpkin ales. According to market data through July, sales for IPAs and seasonal beers this year have seen the greatest increase among craft beers, 8% and 16% respectively. The largest -- and most competitive -- category at the Great American Beer Festival is the American Style IPA.
"Consumer demand continues to go hoppier and hoppier," says Paul Gatza, director of the Brewers Association, a nonprofit group based in Boulder, Colo., that works with craft brewers and runs the Great American Beer Festival. "What we are seeing is that when can't get the hops they want, they are coming out with different beers. Some are rationing their own beers (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121279252381153273.html)."
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/14.jpg (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122332274798008703.html#)

[B]Trouble Brewing (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122332274798008703.html#)

3:51Weather conditions and growing demand for small craft brews are causing a major shortage of hops and driving up prices. MarketWatch's Paul Lin talks to Vermont brewers about what it means for the industry.





Rising Prices

As the hops crisis became more apparent at the beginning of the year, Bear Republic Brewery in Northern California, whose better known brews include Red Racer IPA, Hop Rod Rye and Red Rock Ale, raised it prices almost immediately, from a $8.50 a six pack to $10.
Owner Richard Norgrove says he got an earful from distributors who said the company would lose market share to other craft brewers: "It was met with a lot of apprehension. Sure enough, 60 days later everybody was doing the same."
Price hikes have been almost universal, with the cost of six packs increasing by up to $2 depending on the market. Even larger brewers such as Sierra Nevada, the second largest craft brewer in the U.S., raised the price of a case by 50 to 60 cents to combat rising costs, said owner Ken Grossman.
At Stone Brewing Co., considered one of the industry leaders in creating hoppy beers, the 15-20% price hike instituted earlier this year was the "biggest single price increase we had to take" in the company's 12-year history, said owner Greg Koch.
Recipe Changes

Despite the rise in hop prices, one option that was off the table for almost all brewers was cutting back on hops.
"We don't want to cut back on the hoppier varieties because they are our best sellers," said Scott Vaccaro of Captain Lawrence Brewing Company in Pleasantville, N.Y. "If we have to, we change the recipes."
For many brewmasters, this means using the hops available and altering the ingredients to recreate the taste. Mr. Vaccaro says he often tinkers with the recipe for his Imperial IPA, which uses four varieties of hops.
"It tends to be a beer that is robust in flavor that you can play around with," he said. "Unless you drink it everyday, you are not going to notice the difference. What we have learned is what varieties we can substitute in and still keep our flavor profiles."
In beer parlance, there are two kinds of hops: one that tones down the sweetness, known as a bittering hop, and another that is added closer to he end of the brewing process, called an aroma hop, that gives beers their distinct flavor.
"Where it becomes more difficult is the aroma varieties that make a character unique," Mr. Vaccaro says. "You can change more with the bittering hop without a perceived change. When you start playing with the aroma hops, it is a little more noticeable."
Mr. Vaccaro has had a surplus in hops because he overbought in the past two years. But he says he expects to change a few recipes towards the end of the year to combat the price jump he's seen in hops, from $3.50 a pound to $23 a pound.
"It's not something you want to do, but it's something you do if it has to be done," he says.
Adam Avery of Avery Brewery in Boulder, Colo., says he had to change plans for a new double IPA because the bitter hops he wanted were not available.
"It just wasn't worth it," he said.
Mr. Koch of Stone Brewing Co. limited the production of his Stone Levitation Ale, which won a Great American Beer Festival Gold Medal Award last year, because the hops he uses to produce it were in short supply.
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/15.jpg Getty ImagesThe shortage in hops has caused prices to surge by as much as ten times.



"We were able to produce it, but not able to introduce it into any new markets this year," he said. "Modifying our recipes wasn't really on the radar. There were some beers we just couldn't make or make more than a limited amount."
This July was the first year Mr. Koch did not produce a hop-heavy beer for Stone Brewing Co.'s anniversary. He instead made a chocolate-oatmeal stout, which he is showcasing at this year's Great American Beer Festival.
"It's a completely different style of beer," he said. "Instead of using the hops to give it flavor, we created a recipe using bitter chocolate."
Growing Pains

Despite rising prices and a shortage in hops, craft beer -- beer made by small, independent and traditional breweries -- has grown 6.5% in volume and 11% in sales in the first half of 2008, roughly the same amount as the same period last year, Mr. Gatza says. According to the Brewers Association, in 2006 and 2007, 47 of the top 50 craft brewing companies grew in production to keep up with demand. So far this year about 42 of the top 50 are growing to keep up with demand, Mr. Gatza said.
One of the reasons for this continued growth despite the economic downturn is that craft beer is still one of cheaper luxury items people can buy, with most six packs cost less than $10, says Mr. Norgrove of Bear Republic Brewery. Bear Republic has seen business grow by more than 50% in 2006 and 2007, and is seeing healthy profits again this year, he says. "We are in one of those industries that is really doing well. I don't want to say it's recession proof, but we are seeing steady growth."
Between March and May of this year hop growers planted an additional 8,500 acres in the U.S. and more than 11,000 world-wide to help keep up with demand -- though most of the hops planted are the bitter hops which are will not reach full maturity for three years and do less to distinguish flavor.
At the beer festivals this fall, hop-filled beers will still be prevalent, though some may have altered recipes. But for the next harvest, brewers and experts agree that there could be less diversity in the styles of beers.
"Things are predicted to get a little better on the hop front in the next year to two," Mr. Koch said. "There has been a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel, but it's definitely not in the clear."

[rbedgood]

How about this...

The future of beer.

When Montana Brewing Co. won the "Small Brewpub of the Year" award at last year's Great American Beer Festival, owner Travis Zeilstra attributed much of his success to a Northwestern bitter hop called Northern Brewer, which he adds to 40% of his brews to achieve a bold flavor and clean aftertaste.
But when his current batch of hoppy beers runs out in the next month or two, Mr. Zeilstra will be forced to alter his prized recipes. Since the beginning of this year, his cost for Northern Brewer has increased from $5 a pound to $40. Mr. Zeilstra has grudgingly paid the new price on the spot market, but the cost is too much for him to continue, and even if he could, he would not be able to get a contract for the sought-after hop until 2013, as the upcoming harvests have already been contracted out to larger brewers.



Brewers are descending on Denver this week for the 27th annual Great American Beer Festival, the U.S.'s largest beer gathering in which nearly 2,000 brews compete. They are facing soaring costs and a shortage in hops, the plant used to give beer its bitterness, aroma and flavor. It was about this time last year that brewers first started to feel the impact of the current hop crisis -- a loss of 10,000 acres world-wide in 2007 -- caused by a bad crop from Europe, growing demand in Asia (where beer sales have increased 3% each year for the past half decade), and decades of reduced acreage in favor of real-estate development and more lucrative crops.
Since the summer of 2007, the shortage has pushed the cost of hops from around $3-$5 a pound to $20-$40 a pound. It has forced almost all craft brewers -- small, independent and traditional breweries -- to raise retail prices. Smaller brewers, who don't typically have contracts on hops, have had to pay the higher costs, alter recipes or turn to less hoppy brews such as wheat beers, stouts and Pilsners.
"It's been a struggle, but you have to be able to adapt," Montana Brewing Co.'s Mr. Zeilstra says. "I have a couple of other hops that I use as a substitute. Some of them will work very closely and are interchangeable, but others are not. We are just going to have to see how people react to them."
As hops prices have risen, so has consumer demand for the bolder beer styles hops provide, such as India Pale Ales (IPAs) and seasonal drafts like Oktoberfest beers and pumpkin ales. According to market data through July, sales for IPAs and seasonal beers this year have seen the greatest increase among craft beers, 8% and 16% respectively. The largest -- and most competitive -- category at the Great American Beer Festival is the American Style IPA.
"Consumer demand continues to go hoppier and hoppier," says Paul Gatza, director of the Brewers Association, a nonprofit group based in Boulder, Colo., that works with craft brewers and runs the Great American Beer Festival. "What we are seeing is that when can't get the hops they want, they are coming out with different beers. Some are rationing their own beers (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121279252381153273.html)."
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/14.jpg (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122332274798008703.html#)

[B]Trouble Brewing (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122332274798008703.html#)

3:51Weather conditions and growing demand for small craft brews are causing a major shortage of hops and driving up prices. MarketWatch's Paul Lin talks to Vermont brewers about what it means for the industry.





Rising Prices

As the hops crisis became more apparent at the beginning of the year, Bear Republic Brewery in Northern California, whose better known brews include Red Racer IPA, Hop Rod Rye and Red Rock Ale, raised it prices almost immediately, from a $8.50 a six pack to $10.
Owner Richard Norgrove says he got an earful from distributors who said the company would lose market share to other craft brewers: "It was met with a lot of apprehension. Sure enough, 60 days later everybody was doing the same."
Price hikes have been almost universal, with the cost of six packs increasing by up to $2 depending on the market. Even larger brewers such as Sierra Nevada, the second largest craft brewer in the U.S., raised the price of a case by 50 to 60 cents to combat rising costs, said owner Ken Grossman.
At Stone Brewing Co., considered one of the industry leaders in creating hoppy beers, the 15-20% price hike instituted earlier this year was the "biggest single price increase we had to take" in the company's 12-year history, said owner Greg Koch.
Recipe Changes

Despite the rise in hop prices, one option that was off the table for almost all brewers was cutting back on hops.
"We don't want to cut back on the hoppier varieties because they are our best sellers," said Scott Vaccaro of Captain Lawrence Brewing Company in Pleasantville, N.Y. "If we have to, we change the recipes."
For many brewmasters, this means using the hops available and altering the ingredients to recreate the taste. Mr. Vaccaro says he often tinkers with the recipe for his Imperial IPA, which uses four varieties of hops.
"It tends to be a beer that is robust in flavor that you can play around with," he said. "Unless you drink it everyday, you are not going to notice the difference. What we have learned is what varieties we can substitute in and still keep our flavor profiles."
In beer parlance, there are two kinds of hops: one that tones down the sweetness, known as a bittering hop, and another that is added closer to he end of the brewing process, called an aroma hop, that gives beers their distinct flavor.
"Where it becomes more difficult is the aroma varieties that make a character unique," Mr. Vaccaro says. "You can change more with the bittering hop without a perceived change. When you start playing with the aroma hops, it is a little more noticeable."
Mr. Vaccaro has had a surplus in hops because he overbought in the past two years. But he says he expects to change a few recipes towards the end of the year to combat the price jump he's seen in hops, from $3.50 a pound to $23 a pound.
"It's not something you want to do, but it's something you do if it has to be done," he says.
Adam Avery of Avery Brewery in Boulder, Colo., says he had to change plans for a new double IPA because the bitter hops he wanted were not available.
"It just wasn't worth it," he said.
Mr. Koch of Stone Brewing Co. limited the production of his Stone Levitation Ale, which won a Great American Beer Festival Gold Medal Award last year, because the hops he uses to produce it were in short supply.
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/15.jpg Getty ImagesThe shortage in hops has caused prices to surge by as much as ten times.



"We were able to produce it, but not able to introduce it into any new markets this year," he said. "Modifying our recipes wasn't really on the radar. There were some beers we just couldn't make or make more than a limited amount."
This July was the first year Mr. Koch did not produce a hop-heavy beer for Stone Brewing Co.'s anniversary. He instead made a chocolate-oatmeal stout, which he is showcasing at this year's Great American Beer Festival.
"It's a completely different style of beer," he said. "Instead of using the hops to give it flavor, we created a recipe using bitter chocolate."
Growing Pains

Despite rising prices and a shortage in hops, craft beer -- beer made by small, independent and traditional breweries -- has grown 6.5% in volume and 11% in sales in the first half of 2008, roughly the same amount as the same period last year, Mr. Gatza says. According to the Brewers Association, in 2006 and 2007, 47 of the top 50 craft brewing companies grew in production to keep up with demand. So far this year about 42 of the top 50 are growing to keep up with demand, Mr. Gatza said.
One of the reasons for this continued growth despite the economic downturn is that craft beer is still one of cheaper luxury items people can buy, with most six packs cost less than $10, says Mr. Norgrove of Bear Republic Brewery. Bear Republic has seen business grow by more than 50% in 2006 and 2007, and is seeing healthy profits again this year, he says. "We are in one of those industries that is really doing well. I don't want to say it's recession proof, but we are seeing steady growth."
Between March and May of this year hop growers planted an additional 8,500 acres in the U.S. and more than 11,000 world-wide to help keep up with demand -- though most of the hops planted are the bitter hops which are will not reach full maturity for three years and do less to distinguish flavor.
At the beer festivals this fall, hop-filled beers will still be prevalent, though some may have altered recipes. But for the next harvest, brewers and experts agree that there could be less diversity in the styles of beers.
"Things are predicted to get a little better on the hop front in the next year to two," Mr. Koch said. "There has been a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel, but it's definitely not in the clear."

This will now be Canada's favorite thread on this website. :D

[Guru]

How about this...

The future of beer.

When Montana Brewing Co. won the "Small Brewpub of the Year" award at last year's Great American Beer Festival, owner Travis Zeilstra attributed much of his success to a Northwestern bitter hop called Northern Brewer, which he adds to 40% of his brews to achieve a bold flavor and clean aftertaste.
But when his current batch of hoppy beers runs out in the next month or two, Mr. Zeilstra will be forced to alter his prized recipes. Since the beginning of this year, his cost for Northern Brewer has increased from $5 a pound to $40. Mr. Zeilstra has grudgingly paid the new price on the spot market, but the cost is too much for him to continue, and even if he could, he would not be able to get a contract for the sought-after hop until 2013, as the upcoming harvests have already been contracted out to larger brewers.



Brewers are descending on Denver this week for the 27th annual Great American Beer Festival, the U.S.'s largest beer gathering in which nearly 2,000 brews compete. They are facing soaring costs and a shortage in hops, the plant used to give beer its bitterness, aroma and flavor. It was about this time last year that brewers first started to feel the impact of the current hop crisis -- a loss of 10,000 acres world-wide in 2007 -- caused by a bad crop from Europe, growing demand in Asia (where beer sales have increased 3% each year for the past half decade), and decades of reduced acreage in favor of real-estate development and more lucrative crops.
Since the summer of 2007, the shortage has pushed the cost of hops from around $3-$5 a pound to $20-$40 a pound. It has forced almost all craft brewers -- small, independent and traditional breweries -- to raise retail prices. Smaller brewers, who don't typically have contracts on hops, have had to pay the higher costs, alter recipes or turn to less hoppy brews such as wheat beers, stouts and Pilsners.
"It's been a struggle, but you have to be able to adapt," Montana Brewing Co.'s Mr. Zeilstra says. "I have a couple of other hops that I use as a substitute. Some of them will work very closely and are interchangeable, but others are not. We are just going to have to see how people react to them."
As hops prices have risen, so has consumer demand for the bolder beer styles hops provide, such as India Pale Ales (IPAs) and seasonal drafts like Oktoberfest beers and pumpkin ales. According to market data through July, sales for IPAs and seasonal beers this year have seen the greatest increase among craft beers, 8% and 16% respectively. The largest -- and most competitive -- category at the Great American Beer Festival is the American Style IPA.
"Consumer demand continues to go hoppier and hoppier," says Paul Gatza, director of the Brewers Association, a nonprofit group based in Boulder, Colo., that works with craft brewers and runs the Great American Beer Festival. "What we are seeing is that when can't get the hops they want, they are coming out with different beers. Some are rationing their own beers (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121279252381153273.html)."
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/14.jpg (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122332274798008703.html#)

[B]Trouble Brewing (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122332274798008703.html#)

3:51Weather conditions and growing demand for small craft brews are causing a major shortage of hops and driving up prices. MarketWatch's Paul Lin talks to Vermont brewers about what it means for the industry.





Rising Prices

As the hops crisis became more apparent at the beginning of the year, Bear Republic Brewery in Northern California, whose better known brews include Red Racer IPA, Hop Rod Rye and Red Rock Ale, raised it prices almost immediately, from a $8.50 a six pack to $10.
Owner Richard Norgrove says he got an earful from distributors who said the company would lose market share to other craft brewers: "It was met with a lot of apprehension. Sure enough, 60 days later everybody was doing the same."
Price hikes have been almost universal, with the cost of six packs increasing by up to $2 depending on the market. Even larger brewers such as Sierra Nevada, the second largest craft brewer in the U.S., raised the price of a case by 50 to 60 cents to combat rising costs, said owner Ken Grossman.
At Stone Brewing Co., considered one of the industry leaders in creating hoppy beers, the 15-20% price hike instituted earlier this year was the "biggest single price increase we had to take" in the company's 12-year history, said owner Greg Koch.
Recipe Changes

Despite the rise in hop prices, one option that was off the table for almost all brewers was cutting back on hops.
"We don't want to cut back on the hoppier varieties because they are our best sellers," said Scott Vaccaro of Captain Lawrence Brewing Company in Pleasantville, N.Y. "If we have to, we change the recipes."
For many brewmasters, this means using the hops available and altering the ingredients to recreate the taste. Mr. Vaccaro says he often tinkers with the recipe for his Imperial IPA, which uses four varieties of hops.
"It tends to be a beer that is robust in flavor that you can play around with," he said. "Unless you drink it everyday, you are not going to notice the difference. What we have learned is what varieties we can substitute in and still keep our flavor profiles."
In beer parlance, there are two kinds of hops: one that tones down the sweetness, known as a bittering hop, and another that is added closer to he end of the brewing process, called an aroma hop, that gives beers their distinct flavor.
"Where it becomes more difficult is the aroma varieties that make a character unique," Mr. Vaccaro says. "You can change more with the bittering hop without a perceived change. When you start playing with the aroma hops, it is a little more noticeable."
Mr. Vaccaro has had a surplus in hops because he overbought in the past two years. But he says he expects to change a few recipes towards the end of the year to combat the price jump he's seen in hops, from $3.50 a pound to $23 a pound.
"It's not something you want to do, but it's something you do if it has to be done," he says.
Adam Avery of Avery Brewery in Boulder, Colo., says he had to change plans for a new double IPA because the bitter hops he wanted were not available.
"It just wasn't worth it," he said.
Mr. Koch of Stone Brewing Co. limited the production of his Stone Levitation Ale, which won a Great American Beer Festival Gold Medal Award last year, because the hops he uses to produce it were in short supply.
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/10/15.jpg Getty ImagesThe shortage in hops has caused prices to surge by as much as ten times.



"We were able to produce it, but not able to introduce it into any new markets this year," he said. "Modifying our recipes wasn't really on the radar. There were some beers we just couldn't make or make more than a limited amount."
This July was the first year Mr. Koch did not produce a hop-heavy beer for Stone Brewing Co.'s anniversary. He instead made a chocolate-oatmeal stout, which he is showcasing at this year's Great American Beer Festival.
"It's a completely different style of beer," he said. "Instead of using the hops to give it flavor, we created a recipe using bitter chocolate."
Growing Pains

Despite rising prices and a shortage in hops, craft beer -- beer made by small, independent and traditional breweries -- has grown 6.5% in volume and 11% in sales in the first half of 2008, roughly the same amount as the same period last year, Mr. Gatza says. According to the Brewers Association, in 2006 and 2007, 47 of the top 50 craft brewing companies grew in production to keep up with demand. So far this year about 42 of the top 50 are growing to keep up with demand, Mr. Gatza said.
One of the reasons for this continued growth despite the economic downturn is that craft beer is still one of cheaper luxury items people can buy, with most six packs cost less than $10, says Mr. Norgrove of Bear Republic Brewery. Bear Republic has seen business grow by more than 50% in 2006 and 2007, and is seeing healthy profits again this year, he says. "We are in one of those industries that is really doing well. I don't want to say it's recession proof, but we are seeing steady growth."
Between March and May of this year hop growers planted an additional 8,500 acres in the U.S. and more than 11,000 world-wide to help keep up with demand -- though most of the hops planted are the bitter hops which are will not reach full maturity for three years and do less to distinguish flavor.
At the beer festivals this fall, hop-filled beers will still be prevalent, though some may have altered recipes. But for the next harvest, brewers and experts agree that there could be less diversity in the styles of beers.
"Things are predicted to get a little better on the hop front in the next year to two," Mr. Koch said. "There has been a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel, but it's definitely not in the clear."


This will now be Canada's favorite thread on this website. :D

:bananen_smilies046:

[rbedgood]

^^^at this rate we're looking at about 2:00 p.m. on the 10th. :D

[Guru]

^^^at this rate we're looking at about 2:00 p.m. on the 10th. :D

Why can't I ever win and get that kind of arrowcash?:mob:

[rbedgood]

Why can't I ever win and get that kind of arrowcash?:mob:

It takes many wins, over time to build up a nest egg such as mine...and do realize 90% of my nest egg is in on this event. Guess who is going to be posting non-stop for the next 12-15 hours until we hit 100,000...:yahoo:

[rbedgood]

It takes many wins, over time to build up a nest egg such as mine...and do realize 90% of my nest egg is in on this event. Guess who is going to be posting non-stop for the next 12-15 hours until we hit 100,000...:yahoo:

...actually do you think Coach would mind if I add a prop bet to the event...wonder if I can hit 5000 posts before the site hits 100,000. I'd have to account for almost 600 of the last 800 posts...long odds, but it could be interesting?

[Guru]

It takes many wins, over time to build up a nest egg such as mine...and do realize 90% of my nest egg is in on this event. Guess who is going to be posting non-stop for the next 12-15 hours until we hit 100,000...:yahoo:

speaking of money...

Eric Manchester needs some cash thrown his way for an upgrade.:bananen_smilies046:

[rbedgood]

speaking of money...

Eric Manchester needs some cash thrown his way for an upgrade.:bananen_smilies046:

Just sent you a contract as requested on the GLB-PM

[Guru]

Just sent you a contract as requested on the GLB-PM
Got it. Thanks. Completely upgraded now. Can't believe I am only a 25 at this point. heh

[rbedgood]

Got it. Thanks. Completely upgraded now. Can't believe I am only a 25 at this point. heh

You must...you must, you must increase your boost. :lol:

[Guru]

You must...you must, you must increase your boost. :lol:

OK. I guess I am not getting that part of it. I need flex points for that right? I have been using my flex points to level up though.

[tornadospotter]

When would you like Twister to boost for his last time this season?

[Coach]

...actually do you think Coach would mind if I add a prop bet to the event...wonder if I can hit 5000 posts before the site hits 100,000. I'd have to account for almost 600 of the last 800 posts...long odds, but it could be interesting?

Fine by me. You are the bookie.

[Coach]

Update: 99,313 posts

[IlovetheChiefs]

Wow and to think if it wasn't for my posts we'd be at 98,300 right now. Kind of gets me right here (pointing to heart).

Heh, when it gets to like 99,950 I can see about 20 users on here typing at once trying to be #100,000. But if the last ten or so come in within one minute, and if an additional ten or so posts follow the next minute, wouldn't it be kind of hard to determine who specifically achieved post # 100,000. ;)

[chief31]

OK. I guess I am not getting that part of it. I need flex points for that right? I have been using my flex points to level up though.

level-up = boost. :D

[tornadospotter]

Get to posting, where is HH? HH we need you!!!!! 99351 at this post!

[rbedgood]

Update: 99,313 posts

Not moving quite as quickly as I thought, but we'll fix that over the weekend...

[Canada]

When will ChiefsCrowd.com hit 100,000 posts?


Right after 99 999 posts!! :D

[rbedgood]

Right after 99 999 posts!! :D

Funny guy...

[Canada]

Thank you...thank you....I'm here all week!! Try the veal! :D

[rbedgood]

Thank you...thank you....I'm here all week!! Try the veal! :D


mmmmmmmmm....VEAL. :D

[tornadospotter]

mmmmmmmmm....VEAL. :D
I would rather have steak!! not baby beef, and beer :bananen_smilies046:

[rbedgood]

I would rather have steak!! not baby beef, and beer :bananen_smilies046:

Steak is good. I just haven't had Veal in a long time.

[Canada]

I will have a steak with a side of veal!! And beer....lots and lots of beer!

[tammietailgator]

Beernuts

[tornadospotter]

I will have a steak with a side of veal!! And beer....lots and lots of beer!
I will have just the steak! With a side of beer, and for desert, more beer! :bananen_smilies046: :beer:

[rbedgood]

I will have just the steak! With a side of beer, and for desert, more beer! :bananen_smilies046: :beer:

Well I'll have something with chocolate for dessert...but if you are in the desert, beer probably would be good.

[Canada]

I will have just the steak! With a side of beer, and for desert, more beer! :bananen_smilies046: :beer:

Beer is NOT a side!! don't let me hear you talk about beer like that again EVER!!! :bananen_smilies046: I also would like a beer appetizer!! :D :beer:

[tammietailgator]

I will have a steak with a side of veal!! And beer....lots and lots of beer!


We are having steak tonight.... but david bought wine to go with it. :sign0153:

[tornadospotter]

Well I'll have something with chocolate for dessert...but if you are in the desert, beer probably would be good.
damm puter, I new whats i wssa typnnn.:D

[tornadospotter]

We are having steak tonight.... but david bought wine to go with it. :sign0153:
:sign0153: :sign0153: :sign0153: :sign0153: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[rbedgood]

:sign0153: :sign0153: :sign0153: :sign0153: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Hmmm...I like wine...but I'd still rather have a glass of milk.

[tornadospotter]

Hmmm...I like wine...but I'd still rather have a glass of milk.
:mob: :mob: With steak, no!!, with veal maybe. I would not know.

[Canada]

We are having steak tonight.... but david bought wine to go with it. :sign0153:

Tell him he will never be allowed to visit Canada with that attitude!! :lol: J/k...if he likes wine I actually live in the "winebelt" There are so many wineries around here. We used to do the free tours just to get free wine before we went out to the bars!! :D

[rbedgood]

Tell him he will never be allowed to visit Canada with that attitude!! :lol: J/k...if he likes wine I actually live in the "winebelt" There are so many wineries around here. We used to do the free tours just to get free wine before we went out to the bars!! :D

Nice...I grew up just south of Napa Valley. :D

[Canada]

I have never been a huge wine fan. Too many snooty *** people charging too much to get drunk!! My mom bought a $600 bottle of wine and I almost cried when I told her that could have been about 14 cases of beer...and it would taste better!!

[tornadospotter]

I have never been a huge wine fan. Too many snooty *** people charging too much to get drunk!! My mom bought a $600 bottle of wine and I almost cried when I told her that could have been about 14 cases of beer...and it would taste better!!
:mob: :mob: :mob: That is a waste of beer money! Cheep wine taste the same to me as any wine. :beer:

[rbedgood]

I have never been a huge wine fan. Too many snooty *** people charging too much to get drunk!! My mom bought a $600 bottle of wine and I almost cried when I told her that could have been about 14 cases of beer...and it would taste better!!

...and although no one (but apparently David) in this crowd would agree with me, I'll say that's a matter of opinion. I'd much prefer wine.

[tornadospotter]

...and although no one (but apparently David) in this crowd would agree with me, I'll say that's a matter of opinion. I'd much prefer wine.
Yes the God father would, sorry if my post may have offended you god father. :D

[tammietailgator]

I have never been a huge wine fan. Too many snooty *** people charging too much to get drunk!! My mom bought a $600 bottle of wine and I almost cried when I told her that could have been about 14 cases of beer...and it would taste better!!

Well he didn't spend that much! It could have been 1 case. :lol:

[Canada]

...and although no one (but apparently David) in this crowd would agree with me, I'll say that's a matter of opinion. I'd much prefer wine.

I agree that taste is a matter of opinion, I just think it is assinine to think that $600 for a bottle of wine is reasonable. It is all a status symbol to me. Put the bottle in a paper bag and have at it!!

[rbedgood]

Yes the God father would, sorry if my post may have offended you god father. :D

LOL...hadn't even thought about that...but seriously I've always preferred a good Cabernet to a brew.

[Canada]

LOL...hadn't even thought about that...but seriously I've always preferred a good Cabernet to a brew.

Not a fair comparison...you only get to compare it to American beer. :bananen_smilies046: :D

[rbedgood]

Not a fair comparison...you only get to compare it to American beer. :bananen_smilies046: :D

I've had beers elsewhere...its not that I don't like beer...but as infrequently as I drink I'd usually choose to have the drink I prefer. Either a premium Vodka, or a quality wine.

[tornadospotter]

Keep posting, We can do it!
I have to go to the store but I will be back and will post somemore!

[rbedgood]

Keep posting, We can do it!
I have to go to the store but I will be back and will post somemore!

We've got HH power now. I saw he's joined the efforts. Shouldn't be too tough to make it now.

[tammietailgator]

Keep posting, We can do it!
I have to go to the store but I will be back and will post somemore!

I have to study at some point tonight.... but I will post as much as possible

[Canada]

beer

[tornadospotter]

beer
is yummy!:bananen_smilies046: :beer:

[hermhater]

I have an idea.

[Canada]

I have an idea.

Wanna go downstairs and smoke a joint? :D

[hermhater]

Good idea.

I'm there dude.

[Guru]

level-up = boost. :D

Figured that was what you meant. Start me so I can start leveling up sooner then. dangit. :lol:

[Guru]

Thank you...thank you....I'm here all week!! Try the veal! :D
YouTube - I ate His liver with some fava beans...

[rbedgood]

Figured that was what you meant. Start me so I can start leveling up sooner then. dangit. :lol:

yeah, once you hit level 27 there is no benefit to waiting to the end of the season to boost any longer.

[hardcorechiefsfan]

How can I get those cute yellow 58 icons?

[rbedgood]

How can I get those cute yellow 58 icons?

You need more rep added and you'll get them. I just hit you some rep.

[tornadospotter]

415 to go.

[tornadospotter]

386 to go

[tornadospotter]

382, and I am done until Sunday night.

[tornadospotter]

382, and I am done until Sunday night.

Opps 381

[tornadospotter]

Opps 381
dang it 380,:D

[tornadospotter]

We should restart the last one to post thread! :D

[Canada]

beer

[tammietailgator]

370!!!:yahoo:

[Coach]

Wow and to think if it wasn't for my posts we'd be at 98,300 right now. Kind of gets me right here (pointing to heart).

Heh, when it gets to like 99,950 I can see about 20 users on here typing at once trying to be #100,000. But if the last ten or so come in within one minute, and if an additional ten or so posts follow the next minute, wouldn't it be kind of hard to determine who specifically achieved post # 100,000. ;)

It would be nearly impossible.

[tammietailgator]

I just bet more!

[hermhater]

Are you crazy???

Bet it all tammie, we can get there today if we try hard enough.

[tammietailgator]

Why couldnt you have just found it??:sign0153:

[hermhater]

I only know how to click the "Unread Posts" link.

[tammietailgator]

So tell me how much I will win! PM me though... I don't want everyone in here knowing how rich I will be.

:lol:

[hermhater]

456306925

[Coach]

So tell me how much I will win! PM me though... I don't want everyone in here knowing how rich I will be.

:lol:

PM. 450 million if we hit it by the 14th. Your broke if we don't.

[Canada]

PM. 450 million if we hit it by the 14th. Your broke if we don't.

I would be able to win another $50 million if you would just pay me my money!!

[hermhater]

PM. 450 million if we hit it by the 14th. Your broke if we don't.

We're gonna see if we can get it done by tonight...

:D

[hermhater]

Less than 275 to go...

[Coach]

I would be able to win another $50 million if you would just pay me my money!!

I will pay you the arrowcash when you pay me the money you owe me.

[Canada]

I will pay you the arrowcash when you pay me the money you owe me.

what do I owe you? The $24.99 a month membership fee here is not enough?

[hermhater]

I only pay $14.99...

[Canada]

:D
I only pay $14.99...

they charge by the inch...thats why it is cheaper for you!! :D

[Coach]

I would be able to win another $50 million if you would just pay me my money!!


:D

they charge by the inch...thats why it is cheaper for you!! :D

Post of the month.

[hermhater]

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/

[Coach]

Bets settled. Wow. I can't believe how quickly you guys did it. People made a killing on this one.

[hermhater]

Bets settled. Wow. I can't believe how quickly you guys did it. People made a killing on this one.

500 posts in 24 hours?

That's nothing...

:lol:

[Coach]

I think I broke the system. It didn't pay the bet to me. And it took my money. I think I'll be OK though.

[Canada]

I think I broke the system. It didn't pay the bet to me. And it took my money. I think I'll be OK though.

Here comes the excuse why I won't get my money again!!

[Coach]

Here comes the excuse why I won't get my money again!!
Everyone got paid, except for me. The payoff would have been $10 billion. It must not pay 11 digit payoffs. You got paid Canada, so put that it in your pipe and smoke it.

[Canada]

Everyone got paid, except for me. The payoff would have been $10 billion. It must not pay 11 digit payoffs. You got paid Canada, so put that it in your pipe and smoke it.

Oh...it seems like I am still about $10 million short!! But you can discuss that with Big Dan!

[hermhater]

I think I broke the system. It didn't pay the bet to me. And it took my money. I think I'll be OK though.


Can I have a dollar?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/images/beer-beggar.jpg

[Coach]

Big Dan is probably still hooking up with that waitress at the BBQ joint.

[Canada]

Big Dan is probably still hooking up with that waitress at the BBQ joint.

:lol: Nope, he is at the Cougar bar tonite. He wanted me to go, but I had to work!!

[hermhater]

So I guess Dan never banged her then?

[Canada]

who said that?

[hermhater]

who said that?

My bad.

I misread Coaches post.

I thought he said "still trying" to hook up, not "still hooking" up with that waitress.

Way to go Dan!

:yahoo:

[Coach]

564 posts on Saturday. That's in the top 20. The most posts in a single day was on Oct 1st, 2007 when we had 1164.

[hermhater]

I got to the party late, what can I say.

[tammietailgator]

wow I joined in Sept of 07

[hermhater]

Me too.

That's over a year ago.

[Canada]

When did I join?

[hardcorechiefsfan]

When did I join?Look in upper right hand corner, Mar. 2007.

[tornadospotter]

Next to all you big winners I am poor, Charity anybody? Give to me the poor.:D

[hardcorechiefsfan]

Next to all you big winners I am poor, Charity anybody? Give to me the poor.:D

Don't tell me that you voted 15th or after. You would of made a killing if you had won.

[tornadospotter]

Don't tell me that you voted 15th or after. You would of made a killing if you had won.
No I voted for by the 14th but I only won a mil!

[Canada]

No I voted for by the 14th but I only won a mil!

U shoulda bet more tightwad!! :D

[hardcorechiefsfan]

No I voted for by the 14th but I only won a mil!

Only...?

[tornadospotter]

U shoulda bet more tightwad!! :D
I would have, but HH some how started posting again, and I thought you would have waited until tonite to hit it, so you all owe me :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[tornadospotter]

Only...?
Yep, If I could only make it real!!!!!!!!











Coach work on that.

[hardcorechiefsfan]

Yep, If I could only make it real!!!!!!!!

Coach work on that.

Oh and Coach, I have a cat with a brain tumor. If we could have our AC in real money I could pay for her surgery.

[tornadospotter]

Oh and Coach, I have a cat with a brain tumor. If we could have our AC in real money I could pay for her surgery.
Better work hard on that Coach, this sounds serious! :funnypost:

[tornadospotter]

When did I join?


Look in upper right hand corner, Mar. 2007.

Yeah like you did not know, Jerk!:D :beer:
Not you hardcorechiefsfan, that Canadian jerk :D

[IlovetheChiefs]

What excitement when the Crowd nears a million posts, eh?!

That might be a decade or so away though.

[tornadospotter]

What excitement when the Crowd nears a million posts, eh?!

That might be a decade or so away though.
Not if HH keeps posting!:D
Maybe 2 yrs.

[IlovetheChiefs]

Ha ha, he'll probably be the first to individually reach 100,000 posts.

I see we're still less than 101,000 posts now, meaning that if not for my 1058 posts we'd still be shy of the 100,000. I feel so important for once, yay! :)