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View Full Version : Herm coaches Chiefs to another loss.



Big Daddy Tek
10-26-2008, 06:14 PM
5 minutes left in the game. A couple first downs away from a guaranteed win or just 1 first down away from making it very difficult to lose. What do we do? Play action bootleg which worked great all day. NO. A quick sideline pass on 2nd or 3rd down for 4 yards like we had been getting all day. NO. Maybe we should come out in a passing formation and run or a running formation and pass. NO. How about run to the left 3 times and punt it. Thats what Herm / Chan did. Thats why we lost. We gave BRETT FAVRE a football with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter of a football game. Herm should know what happens when those events occur. He coached in Tampa for years, played against Brett a few times. Oh, how could I forget. This happened last year didnt it? Against Brett, right?
In the post game press conference Herm Edwards (like usual) took all the blame off of himself, saying: We thought we could run the ball at that time and Kolby slipped on 3rd down or he would have got it. My bad Herm. I forgot. Its all Kolbys fault. HOLD ON. Did you say "I thought we could run the ball," because last time I checked, we couldnt run all day. JC had one good run and other than that the running game was nothing. Herm continued to say that If DJ didnt drop that pick in the red zone that this was a much different ball game. How bout this you spineless b.asterd. If we would of went for it on one of the four, 4th and 1's, it could have been a different game. Herm Edwards is spineless, scared, content and arrogant and when you mix that all up with bad clock management, you become a giant peice of worthless crap.

kcchiefs4life
10-26-2008, 06:28 PM
I agree. We did well overall today, but herm is still not taking accountability for our losses, he shifts the focus to the players.

I hope we start some house cleaning over the off season, starting with Peterson stepping down then herm on his way out too.

47jedi47
10-26-2008, 06:33 PM
Herm has to be doing the worst coaching job in franchise history,,,,, even worse than the Gansz years

AkChief49
10-26-2008, 06:39 PM
did not get to see the game. Sounds like he went to Herm mode again(play not to lose, but lose anyway)a first down...was all we needed

tornadospotter
10-26-2008, 06:45 PM
I will agree to this! We could have won this, but we play to not lose!

Mars72
10-26-2008, 08:43 PM
Amen. What crappy play calling when they could have put it away. Lame Lame Lame

okikcfan
10-26-2008, 08:48 PM
sounds like Marty Ball to me!

drstandley31
10-26-2008, 09:01 PM
NO, We didn't "Do Well in this game today", We lost a f'n game we should have won. Losing is not doing well no matter how close you got. You should NEVER lose a game when you're +3 in turnovers and one was returned for a TD. When your QB didn't turn it over and had a .150 rating at half time (didn't see the final rating), you shouldn't lose. But when you allow a RB to bust another 60 yard TD run, and call sh*ty plays, and know you're going to lose before you get there, then you will. You always will. Herm always will!!! NO, it's not good, it's not acceptable!

Three7s
10-26-2008, 09:05 PM
NO, We didn't "Do Well in this game today", We lost a f'n game we should have won. Losing is not doing well no matter how close you got. You should NEVER lose a game when you're +3 in turnovers and one was returned for a TD. When your QB didn't turn it over and had a .150 rating at half time (didn't see the final rating), you shouldn't lose. But when you allow a RB to bust another 60 yard TD run, and call sh*ty plays, and know you're going to lose before you get there, then you will. You always will. Herm always will!!! NO, it's not good, it's not acceptable!
That's nice, but guess what? No one expected this team to do well, anyways. All we're looking for here is positives, and I think we got a few today! Sorry we didn't put up a crooked number on the win column! I know it'd change everything for us so much!

Hayvern
10-26-2008, 09:18 PM
5 minutes left in the game. A couple first downs away from a guaranteed win or just 1 first down away from making it very difficult to lose. What do we do? Play action bootleg which worked great all day. NO. A quick sideline pass on 2nd or 3rd down for 4 yards like we had been getting all day. NO. Maybe we should come out in a passing formation and run or a running formation and pass. NO. How about run to the left 3 times and punt it. Thats what Herm / Chan did. Thats why we lost. We gave BRETT FAVRE a football with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter of a football game. Herm should know what happens when those events occur. He coached in Tampa for years, played against Brett a few times. Oh, how could I forget. This happened last year didnt it? Against Brett, right?
In the post game press conference Herm Edwards (like usual) took all the blame off of himself, saying: We thought we could run the ball at that time and Kolby slipped on 3rd down or he would have got it. My bad Herm. I forgot. Its all Kolbys fault. HOLD ON. Did you say "I thought we could run the ball," because last time I checked, we couldnt run all day. JC had one good run and other than that the running game was nothing. Herm continued to say that If DJ didnt drop that pick in the red zone that this was a much different ball game. How bout this you spineless b.asterd. If we would of went for it on one of the four, 4th and 1's, it could have been a different game. Herm Edwards is spineless, scared, content and arrogant and when you mix that all up with bad clock management, you become a giant peice of worthless crap.

I was screaming at the TV when this stupid play calling came up. What kind of idiot does Herm have to be to make those idiotic calls. Run out the clock my a$$!. Herm knows who he was up against, and he knew our defense was not going to be able to stop Favre. Yeah we had a couple of good defensive plays, but overall, the Jets walked all over our defense.

Damnit anyway, I am so sick and tired of this sorry-a$$ed excuse for a head coach I could just scream!!!

:mob: :mob: :mob:

section311
10-26-2008, 09:24 PM
Not only did Herman play not to win, but he actually coached the Chiefs out of a game that they should have won by about 17 points. Coming into this game at 1 - 5, there was nothing to lose and everything to gain, and Thigpen was very good, but running when the jets could not stop the pass was a bad decision. Favre was vulnerable, but at the end the old cover two just didn't get it done.

slc chief
10-26-2008, 10:02 PM
That's nice, but guess what? No one expected this team to do well, anyways. All we're looking for here is positives, and I think we got a few today! Sorry we didn't put up a crooked number on the win column! I know it'd change everything for us so much!
we definantly took some positives out of this game thigpen looked good what pissed me off was after the last play from kc herm knew we had lost and there he was clapping you did not win herm dont clap i also liked the new receiver that was a pretty good catch he made in the end zone

drstandley31
10-26-2008, 10:10 PM
That's nice, but guess what? No one expected this team to do well, anyways. All we're looking for here is positives, and I think we got a few today! Sorry we didn't put up a crooked number on the win column! I know it'd change everything for us so much!

Here's your positive, the Jets had the worst game plan ever, we played well enough to win, and still found a way to end up in the dumper. That's not progress, that's not positive, that's not rebuilding. That's hanging on and trying not to look too bad. No, not going to cut Herm or CP any slack, they suck and are not winners. Believe what you want. He coaches to be average.

Canada
10-26-2008, 10:11 PM
Not only did Herman play not to win, but he actually coached the Chiefs out of a game that they should have won by about 17 points. Coming into this game at 1 - 5, there was nothing to lose and everything to gain, and Thigpen was very good, but running when the jets could not stop the pass was a bad decision. Favre was vulnerable, but at the end the old cover two just didn't get it done.

that cover 2 would have gotten it done if DJ held onto that pick. I think he was running in his mind before catching the ball. That would have been a 14 point swing.

kc_chiefs_fan_8
10-26-2008, 10:20 PM
Sarcasm alert!

Wtg Chiefs!:sign0098: Thought we were gonna actually win that one, but you mananged to let the Jets score again. Well done! Nice to know i won at least one of my picks on the Espn's pick 'em game.

slc chief
10-26-2008, 10:23 PM
Sarcasm alert!

Wtg Chiefs!:sign0098: Thought we were gonna actually win that one, but you mananged to let the Jets score again. Well done! Nice to know i won at least one of my picks on the Espn's pick 'em game.
are you saying you picked against the chiefs

josh1971
10-26-2008, 10:53 PM
that cover 2 would have gotten it done if DJ held onto that pick. I think he was running in his mind before catching the ball. That would have been a 14 point swing.

Agreed, and so we can't *entirely* lay it on Herm, because that Int would have been HUGE at that point in the game.

But before Herm calls me to thank me for being kind to him- that utter nonsense of a "drive" we had when all we had to do was go ten yards was infuriating. Ten yards, and we decided, three times, mind you, to run the ball using a guy averaging about 1 yard a carry for the day.

There were so many things we could have done, and those three plays were enormously important. To watch them run what looked like the same play three times, trying to smash out a first down, when we are currently incapable of smashing anything, was frustrating.

Of course, the non-called illegal contact penalty on our last fourth down was a bit of a disappointment too. But that game shouldn't have come down to Thigpen trying to gun one into the end zone as time expired- we should have taken care of business earlier.

jb

JMDChiefs58
10-27-2008, 08:31 AM
Herm Edwards is spineless, scared, content and arrogant and when you mix that all up with bad clock management, you become a giant peice of worthless crap.


Not only that but he doesn't have a clue how to coach an NFL football team. I've said it since day one, as long as Herm is the coach , this team will continue to be a losing team.

garciakcfan
10-27-2008, 09:41 AM
that cover 2 would have gotten it done if DJ held onto that pick. I think he was running in his mind before catching the ball. That would have been a 14 point swing.


Agreed, another typical thread blaming it on the coach again.... I saw a lot of missed tackles out there yesterday... And no pressure on the QB... tamba had one sack that lead to our 4th sack overall for the year....

leaves
10-27-2008, 10:52 AM
There were a lot of terrible tackles, and we still almost one. One thing that really pisses the **** outta me is how every game I see at the meadowlands has bad reffing at vital times. ie...final play being a complete pass interference, or a kick return where savage is hit 3-4sec after already being tackled. D**n, I love new york.

Canada
10-27-2008, 12:28 PM
Agreed, another typical thread blaming it on the coach again.... I saw a lot of missed tackles out there yesterday... And no pressure on the QB... tamba had one sack that lead to our 4th sack overall for the year....

We almost won this game as a team and we lost this game as a team. I think Herm let the offence go this game and we played well. But I do think he needs to shoulder his share of the blame for the runs at the end of the game. The end of the game is where I find Herm makes a lot of poor decisions. There were plenty of opportunities for us to win yesterday but no one (coaching staff and players) took advantage of those opportunities.

chief31
10-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Agreed, another typical thread blaming it on the coach again.... I saw a lot of missed tackles out there yesterday... And no pressure on the QB... tamba had one sack that lead to our 4th sack overall for the year....

Well, along with that one sack, Tamba made contact with Favres throwing arm on two INTs.

I was impressed with Tamba yesterday.

Satch
10-27-2008, 02:24 PM
Personally, I agree. This one was Herm's all the way. It was not because of the three runs at the end although they were a huge gaffe. It started at the BEGINNING of the second half. The Jets made no change on defense and we marched the ball straight down the field. And promptly traded a TD for a field goal. Am I the only one that saw a QUARTERBACK DRAW on second and goal from the ten yard line? It was right back to three and outs the rest of the way. I don't believe for one minute that Gailey came up with the idea to play it safe and throttle back the offense. The Jets did everything but gift wrap that game for the Chiefs and the timidity of the coaching staff cost us at the end. So yeah, I agree with the poster that the three runs at the end of the game were HUGE but it started much earlier. Despite Derrick J's missed chance at an int that was NOT the deciding factor in this game. As was mentioned, we got three picks anyway. What did we get from them? One TD at the end. If Favre doesn't have one of his worst days in recent memory and the Jets would have actually wised up and ran the ball more, this one would have been as ugly as any we've played.

kc_chiefs_fan_8
10-27-2008, 03:29 PM
are you saying you picked against the chiefs

I think this is the 2nd time I've picked against them. The first time I picked against them, they won. They almost won again this time.

Bike
10-27-2008, 03:49 PM
I think this is the 2nd time I've picked against them. The first time I picked against them, they won. They almost won again this time.
You picked against the Chiefs? Dude.

drstandley31
10-27-2008, 04:55 PM
Agreed, another typical thread blaming it on the coach again.... I saw a lot of missed tackles out there yesterday... And no pressure on the QB... tamba had one sack that lead to our 4th sack overall for the year....

Worse than the 4th sack of the year, it was the first sack of the year by the D-Line. Great move trading Allen. I think that comes out to .143 sacks a game by the defensive line. wonderful. However, Farve did get slapped around pretty good, so we were getting to him. That was a nice change.

Canada
10-27-2008, 04:56 PM
Worse than the 4th sack of the year, it was the first sack of the year by the D-Line. Great move trading Allen. I think that comes out to .143 sacks a game by the defensive line. wonderful. However, Farve did get slapped around pretty good, so we were getting to him. That was a nice change.

Sorry, how many does jared have right now?

drstandley31
10-27-2008, 05:00 PM
Sorry, how many does jared have right now?

Well at last check, twice as many as the entire KC D-line. Which isn't good either I agree. So, are you saying that you agree with his departure. We've done so well on defense without him.

Canada
10-27-2008, 05:03 PM
Well at last check, twice as many as the entire KC D-line. Which isn't good either I agree. So, are you saying that you agree with his departure. We've done so well on defense without him.

He has 5 (and one of them is cause he was closest to Orlovsky whe he ran out the back of the endzone) Are you saying you would rather have him than Albert?

drstandley31
10-27-2008, 05:13 PM
He has 5 (and one of them is cause he was closest to Orlovsky whe he ran out the back of the endzone) Are you saying you would rather have him than Albert?

I guess I'll go out on that limb and say yes. At least one side of the ball would be solid, and not bleeding on both sides. Tough call, but I thought it was a stupid trade. With that much youth on defense, you needed one guy to depend on, and that was him, and he had a lot of years ahead of him. I think we would have had a DL that would have stopped a lot of drives, giving our Offense more opportunities and better field position. He would have helped get our defense off the field more often, and they wouldn't be dragging their asses in the forth quarter. He makes teams double team him, giving the middle more opportunities, and often took a TE out of the play. So, yes I guess I would.

Canada
10-27-2008, 05:40 PM
I guess I'll go out on that limb and say yes. At least one side of the ball would be solid, and not bleeding on both sides. Tough call, but I thought it was a stupid trade. With that much youth on defense, you needed one guy to depend on, and that was him, and he had a lot of years ahead of him. I think we would have had a DL that would have stopped a lot of drives, giving our Offense more opportunities and better field position. He would have helped get our defense off the field more often, and they wouldn't be dragging their asses in the forth quarter. He makes teams double team him, giving the middle more opportunities, and often took a TE out of the play. So, yes I guess I would.

that's all well and good. So you would have him get the D off the field for what...more 3 and outs? don't get me wrong, I like JA and I think he is a pretty good player, but not what the Chiefs needed right now. That hole in the line would be much bigger if it were on the O line

Bike
10-27-2008, 05:53 PM
that's all well and good. So you would have him get the D off the field for what...more 3 and outs? don't get me wrong, I like JA and I think he is a pretty good player, but not what the Chiefs needed right now. That hole in the line would be much bigger if it were on the O line
We got Albert, Morgan, and Charles for someone who didn't want to be here. Not to mention a 74 million dollar contract, damn near half that guarenteed. We did what we had to do to begin rebuilding this team.

drstandley31
10-27-2008, 11:15 PM
We got Albert, Morgan, and Charles for someone who didn't want to be here. Not to mention a 74 million dollar contract, damn near half that guarenteed. We did what we had to do to begin rebuilding this team.

Well that's fine, then you got what you wanted. What are they going to do when all thes rookies come up for FA at the same time? you think the money is going to be there to sign them all. NO. They will dump some for draft picks and the beat goes on.

Hayvern
10-27-2008, 11:22 PM
Well that's fine, then you got what you wanted. What are they going to do when all thes rookies come up for FA at the same time? you think the money is going to be there to sign them all. NO. They will dump some for draft picks and the beat goes on.

This is exactly what I was worried about. My assumption is that they will sign some of these sooner to longer contracts, some to shorter and still others will not be on the roster any longer.

This is a significant issue though and one that will be something we will need to overcome.

Canada
10-28-2008, 07:32 PM
Well that's fine, then you got what you wanted. What are they going to do when all thes rookies come up for FA at the same time? you think the money is going to be there to sign them all. NO. They will dump some for draft picks and the beat goes on.

Did they all sign the same contract? Aren't we $30 million under the cap right now?

drstandley31
10-28-2008, 07:41 PM
Did they all sign the same contract? Aren't we $30 million under the cap right now?

I think they are available for free agency after 3 years. If they have a longer term contract, I believe it gets renegotiated at that time. However, I'm the first to admit, everytime I've looked at the rules for FA and how to protect the team from FA, it's a nightmare. Ha, and yes I read we're currently 30 M under the cap, and yet can't find anybody to fill the holes in the OL. I think being 30M under the cap is how CP justifies his job. Makes up for the loss of stadium revenue I suppose.

Canada
10-28-2008, 08:42 PM
I think they are available for free agency after 3 years. If they have a longer term contract, I believe it gets renegotiated at that time. However, I'm the first to admit, everytime I've looked at the rules for FA and how to protect the team from FA, it's a nightmare. Ha, and yes I read we're currently 30 M under the cap, and yet can't find anybody to fill the holes in the OL. I think being 30M under the cap is how CP justifies his job. Makes up for the loss of stadium revenue I suppose.

I hear that!! :lol: I just hope they are saving this cap space for some big free agent signings when the time is right. :bananen_smilies046:

jmlamerson
10-28-2008, 10:05 PM
He has 5 (and one of them is cause he was closest to Orlovsky whe he ran out the back of the endzone) Are you saying you would rather have him than Albert?

Imagine that the Chiefs do not trade JA. The Chiefs probably do not draft Dorsey, and instead trade down for Albert or reach for him. They probably still draft Jamaal Charles (assuming no trade shenanigans) in the 3rd, and don't get Cottam or Morgan. They still draft Flowers in the 2nd, and the rest of the draft is the same.

How exactly are the Chiefs weaker? They still have their LT/RG of the future. They don't have Dorsey, Morgan, or Cottam, but none of those three have been helpful this year so far. They, instead, have a 26-year-old stud DE.

Do you really think Dorsey, Cottam, and Morgan are equal to JA right now? Wouldn't the Chiefs be better off with a real DE and not an ineffective DT and backup S and TE?

If you really, really believe these three will exceed JA in value someday, you are in for severe disappointments.

Signing JA, drafting a RT and LT/RG (depending on where you want to play Albert) sometime in the 3rd-7th rounds, and signing a free-agent DT were the obvious ways to go this offseason. Not what the Chiefs actually did.

Canada
10-28-2008, 10:17 PM
Imagine that the Chiefs do not trade JA. The Chiefs probably do not draft Dorsey, and instead trade down for Albert or reach for him. They probably still draft Jamaal Charles (assuming no trade shenanigans) in the 3rd, and don't get Cottam or Morgan. They still draft Flowers in the 2nd, and the rest of the draft is the same.

How exactly are the Chiefs weaker? They still have their LT/RG of the future. They don't have Dorsey, Morgan, or Cottam, but none of those three have been helpful this year so far. They, instead, have a 26-year-old stud DE.

Do you really think Dorsey, Cottam, and Morgan are equal to JA right now? Wouldn't the Chiefs be better off with a real DE and not an ineffective DT and backup S and TE?

If you really, really believe these three will exceed JA in value someday, you are in for severe disappointments.

Signing JA, drafting a RT and LT/RG (depending on where you want to play Albert) sometime in the 3rd-7th rounds, and signing a free-agent DT were the obvious ways to go this offseason. Not what the Chiefs actually did.

That is some theory. So you assume that Dorsey will never be able to match the value that Jared brought to the team. Cottam won't amount to much...hes only being drafted to replace Tony someday. Funny how we aren't paying anyone $74 million for 4 sacks this season. (I don't give him credit for Orlovsky running out the back of the endzone) Do you honestly believe that having JA would make us that much better this year? I don't see where you think JA is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He has been average at best this season. But as you say, Dorsey and Cottam will never have the impact that got us to 9-7 and 4-12. I don't think that any of the personnel/draft choices were ever made with the intention of making a big run this season. Although no one expected this type of season, we are a team that is being built for the future. Kinda like Green Bay two or three years ago. I guess it is always easy to second guess everyone else's decisions, but no one really knows. It is all speculation, but I believe that the decisions that were are all in attempt to be a contender for years to come.

jmlamerson
10-28-2008, 10:51 PM
That is some theory. So you assume that Dorsey will never be able to match the value that Jared brought to the team. Cottam won't amount to much...hes only being drafted to replace Tony someday. Funny how we aren't paying anyone $74 million for 4 sacks this season. (I don't give him credit for Orlovsky running out the back of the endzone) Do you honestly believe that having JA would make us that much better this year? I don't see where you think JA is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He has been average at best this season. But as you say, Dorsey and Cottam will never have the impact that got us to 9-7 and 4-12. I don't think that any of the personnel/draft choices were ever made with the intention of making a big run this season. Although no one expected this type of season, we are a team that is being built for the future. Kinda like Green Bay two or three years ago. I guess it is always easy to second guess everyone else's decisions, but no one really knows. It is all speculation, but I believe that the decisions that were are all in attempt to be a contender for years to come.

1. Jared Allen is being paid $72M for six years. Assuming the entire contract is played out without any renegotiation (which is an absurd stance), that would equal $12M/year. Which is an awful lot.

Glenn Dorsey is being paid $51M for five years. Assuming the entire contract is played out without any renegotiation (which is an absurd stance), that would equal $10M/year.

I cannot find the contract details for Cottam or Morgan, but I will be generous and say that they signed for an average of $1M/year.

Financially, Cottam+Morgan+Dorsey = Allen for at least the next three years. The Chiefs did not save any money by this trade.

2. Teams build for the future by having a strong DL, strong OL, and franchise QB. Look at every successful franchise in the NFL, and that is what they draft. They do not spend eight (edit) picks over three years for TE, S, and RB like Herm Edwards has done.

3. I don't care that Cottam is intended to replace Tony G. someday. If he is, then the Chiefs are even dumber for not trading Tony at the deadline.

Tony can play for two more years. If he does, then Cottam will be a FA (in two years) by the time he's able to start. How would this pick make any sense?

4. Green Bay drafted a franchise QB years ahead of the curve. They consistently draft DL and OL. They did exactly what a rebuilding team should do. The Chiefs still ignore their QB and line problems. They are doing exactly what you do not do.

5. Nothing I wrote was theoretical. It is what could actually have been done.

6. The difference between attempting to contend and actually contending is trading stud DEs, ignoring line problems, and refusing to find a franchise QB.

7. Anyone who was paying any attention expected this season.

Chiefster
10-28-2008, 11:14 PM
5 minutes left in the game. A couple first downs away from a guaranteed win or just 1 first down away from making it very difficult to lose. What do we do? Play action bootleg which worked great all day. NO. A quick sideline pass on 2nd or 3rd down for 4 yards like we had been getting all day. NO. Maybe we should come out in a passing formation and run or a running formation and pass. NO. How about run to the left 3 times and punt it. Thats what Herm / Chan did. Thats why we lost. We gave BRETT FAVRE a football with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter of a football game. Herm should know what happens when those events occur. He coached in Tampa for years, played against Brett a few times. Oh, how could I forget. This happened last year didnt it? Against Brett, right?
In the post game press conference Herm Edwards (like usual) took all the blame off of himself, saying: We thought we could run the ball at that time and Kolby slipped on 3rd down or he would have got it. My bad Herm. I forgot. Its all Kolbys fault. HOLD ON. Did you say "I thought we could run the ball," because last time I checked, we couldnt run all day. JC had one good run and other than that the running game was nothing. Herm continued to say that If DJ didnt drop that pick in the red zone that this was a much different ball game. How bout this you spineless b.asterd. If we would of went for it on one of the four, 4th and 1's, it could have been a different game. Herm Edwards is spineless, scared, content and arrogant and when you mix that all up with bad clock management, you become a giant peice of worthless crap.

I don't think you should hold back so much, and quit being so reserved; tell us exactly what you think and how you feel. :D

Canada
10-28-2008, 11:35 PM
1. Jared Allen is being paid $72M for six years. Assuming the entire contract is played out without any renegotiation (which is an absurd stance), that would equal $12M/year. Which is an awful lot.

Glenn Dorsey is being paid $51M for five years. Assuming the entire contract is played out without any renegotiation (which is an absurd stance), that would equal $10M/year.

I cannot find the contract details for Cottam or Morgan, but I will be generous and say that they signed for an average of $1M/year.

Financially, Cottam+Morgan+Dorsey = Allen for at least the next three years. The Chiefs did not save any money by this trade.

2. Teams build for the future by having a strong DL, strong OL, and franchise QB. Look at every successful franchise in the NFL, and that is what they draft. They do not spend eight (edit) picks over three years for TE, S, and RB like Herm Edwards has done.

3. I don't care that Cottam is intended to replace Tony G. someday. If he is, then the Chiefs are even dumber for not trading Tony at the deadline.

Tony can play for two more years. If he does, then Cottam will be a FA (in two years) by the time he's able to start. How would this pick make any sense?

4. Green Bay drafted a franchise QB years ahead of the curve. They consistently draft DL and OL. They did exactly what a rebuilding team should do. The Chiefs still ignore their QB and line problems. They are doing exactly what you do not do.

5. Nothing I wrote was theoretical. It is what could actually have been done.

6. The difference between attempting to contend and actually contending is trading stud DEs, ignoring line problems, and refusing to find a franchise QB.

7. Anyone who was paying any attention expected this season.

I guess you got it all figured out. You know all the wrong moves. You see how guys are going to end up three years down the road. You knew on draft day who the wrong guys were. I am sure that you second guess pretty much everything that has been done over the last few years to get us to this point. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But these are still your opinions about what should have been done and they are your theories about how their next few years are gonna play out. That is almost the definition of a theory. I wish I believed that JA was the guy who would turn this franchise around and win championships, but the fact is his value at the time was worth the trade for a team that had no one at half the other positions on the field. I wish we could have kept him but trading him to address several needs is the way to rebuild a team.

As far as anyone paying attention expecting this season...I am sure you are someone who has something to pin on management and bit@h and complain about no matter what. I am sure it is easy for you to sit here and say I told ya so just because you complained about everything. But I am sure that you will be here admitting your error in judgement when we have a team that is out lightin' teams up every Sunday. :bananen_smilies046:

Chiefster
10-28-2008, 11:47 PM
...when we have a team that is out lightin' teams up every Sunday. :bananen_smilies046:

I'm for that! :D



Nite Crowd!

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 12:35 AM
I guess you got it all figured out. You know all the wrong moves. You see how guys are going to end up three years down the road. You knew on draft day who the wrong guys were. I am sure that you second guess pretty much everything that has been done over the last few years to get us to this point. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But these are still your opinions about what should have been done and they are your theories about how their next few years are gonna play out. That is almost the definition of a theory. I wish I believed that JA was the guy who would turn this franchise around and win championships, but the fact is his value at the time was worth the trade for a team that had no one at half the other positions on the field. I wish we could have kept him but trading him to address several needs is the way to rebuild a team.

As far as anyone paying attention expecting this season...I am sure you are someone who has something to pin on management and bit@h and complain about no matter what. I am sure it is easy for you to sit here and say I told ya so just because you complained about everything. But I am sure that you will be here admitting your error in judgement when we have a team that is out lightin' teams up every Sunday. :bananen_smilies046:

If Dorsey turns out to be a stud, Cottam turns into the new Tony G., and DuJuan Wagner turns out to be a great SS, I'll eat my words happily. If the combination of those three players is anything near JA, I'll eat my words.

As of this moment, JA has five times as many sacks as our entire DL.

As of this moment, Cottam and Morgan have been inconsequential, and are buried behind a TE the Chiefs won't trade and a 23-year-old Pollard who the organization believeds is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

At this moment, the Chiefs gained no salary benefits from the trade.

At this moment, the Chiefs have no prosoects for turning this around.

At this moment, the Chiefs are collossally untalented at most of the team's positions.

At this moment, the Chiefs RB of the present is being suspended (and will be cut) and their RB of the future is hurt.

At this moment, the most talented Chiefs players, Waters and Tony, look as if they'll retire before coming back to this mess.

At this moment, the Chiefs have nothing even resembling a long-term solution to problem at QB, 2WR, LG, RG, RB, RT, LDE, RDE, 2DT, MLB, ROLB, or FS.

At this moment, the Chiefs are still tearing down the team, not rebuilding it.

At this moment, the Chiefs have a has-been at DC and a never was at OC.

At this moment, the Chiefs have a head coach that couldn't coach pop warner.

What do the Chiefs have, exactly? What makes you think the people who sunk us in this mess can turn it around? What have they done that's good for the Chiefs?

The Chiefs will never, never, never, never, never, never, never turn this around with CP and Herm Edwards. Ever. EVER. Three years from now, people will be criticizing me for bringing up mistakes like trading JA and drafting Dorsey instead of focusing on the current rebuilding project.

Unless the Chiefs change this entire climate of losing, this franchise will be no better than the Lions, Bengals, or perennial losers.

slc chief
10-29-2008, 12:56 AM
If Dorsey turns out to be a stud, Cottam turns into the new Tony G., and DuJuan Wagner turns out to be a great SS, I'll eat my words happily. If the combination of those three players is anything near JA, I'll eat my words.

As of this moment, JA has five times as many sacks as our entire DL.

As of this moment, Cottam and Morgan have been inconsequential, and are buried behind a TE the Chiefs won't trade and a 23-year-old Pollard who the organization believeds is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

At this moment, the Chiefs gained no salary benefits from the trade.

At this moment, the Chiefs have no prosoects for turning this around.

At this moment, the Chiefs are collossally untalented at most of the team's positions.

At this moment, the Chiefs RB of the present is being suspended (and will be cut) and their RB of the future is hurt.

At this moment, the most talented Chiefs players, Waters and Tony, look as if they'll retire before coming back to this mess.

At this moment, the Chiefs have nothing even resembling a long-term solution to problem at QB, 2WR, LG, RG, RB, RT, LDE, RDE, 2DT, MLB, ROLB, or FS.

At this moment, the Chiefs are still tearing down the team, not rebuilding it.

At this moment, the Chiefs have a has-been at DC and a never was at OC.

At this moment, the Chiefs have a head coach that couldn't coach pop warner.

What do the Chiefs have, exactly? What makes you think the people who sunk us in this mess can turn it around? What have they done that's good for the Chiefs?

The Chiefs will never, never, never, never, never, never, never turn this around with CP and Herm Edwards. Ever. EVER. Three years from now, people will be criticizing me for bringing up mistakes like trading JA and drafting Dorsey instead of focusing on the current rebuilding project.

Unless the Chiefs change this entire climate of losing, this franchise will be no better than the Lions, Bengals, or perennial losers.

for one jared was not happy here at all yeah you can put that on carls head, but to say we have nothing to build on i think you better revaluate these players. brandon flowers up for rookie of the week brandon carr solid branden albert improving brad cottam showed some signs this weekend the fullback cox has picked up the transaction to the nfl ok. dorsey dont even judge yet look at demario williams it took him a year to become what he is now and usually takes most defensive lineman longer. i agree that herm and carl need to go

Canada
10-29-2008, 07:48 AM
Unless the Chiefs change this entire climate of losing, this franchise will be no better than the Lions, Bengals, or perennial losers.

This is the stuff that makes me laugh. We have had two losing seasons. TWO!! And you are gonna compare us to those teams. And I am supposed to believe that you know what you are talking about after that statement. And if I remember correctly, out present management brought us a few teams witht the potential to win. How come that is impossible now? I am not saying I want to keep them, I am just curious why they won't ever be able to do it again.

Sn@keIze
10-29-2008, 08:20 AM
, out present management brought us a few teams witht the potential to win.

I am just curious why they won't ever be able to do it again.Our management has done jack squat. One playoff win in 20 years is a spit in the face to the Chief loyal. Simply having winning seasons isnt near good enough standards for Chiefs fans.

Herm inhereted a good team who went 9-7 then 4-12 now this year is looking to be even worse. He wont be able to do it again because he should never have the chance to do it again. He should be drawing unemployment right now with rest of the management.

slc chief
10-29-2008, 09:03 AM
This is the stuff that makes me laugh. We have had two losing seasons. TWO!! And you are gonna compare us to those teams. And I am supposed to believe that you know what you are talkinabout after that statement. And if I remember correctly, out present management brought us a few teams witht the potential to win. How come that is impossible now? I am not saying I want to keep them, I am just curious why they won't ever be able to do it again.

i guess some people cant stand the heat i think he is overlooking one thing as well and that is the pride of being a chief and a chief fan to put the chiefs franchise in the same category as the lions and bengals wow you are trying to put us all the way down there total differant clubhouse i know one thing neither of those teams have our fanbase that alone makes it non transpareable

Canada
10-29-2008, 09:26 AM
Our management has done jack squat. One playoff win in 20 years is a spit in the face to the Chief loyal. Simply having winning seasons isnt near good enough standards for Chiefs fans.

Herm inhereted a good team who went 9-7 then 4-12 now this year is looking to be even worse. He wont be able to do it again because he should never have the chance to do it again. He should be drawing unemployment right now with rest of the management.

So you consider us to be in the same category as the Lions, Bungals etc...? But you are right, we went 13-3 in the playoffs and lost in Round 1 because of Carl. And then in the 94 playoffs, we lost becuase of Carl. Good thing the players never have to be accountable with you guys.

Bike
10-29-2008, 09:51 AM
If Dorsey turns out to be a stud, Cottam turns into the new Tony G., and DuJuan Wagner turns out to be a great SS, I'll eat my words happily. If the combination of those three players is anything near JA, I'll eat my words.

As of this moment, JA has five times as many sacks as our entire DL.
Tied for 14th in the league with 5 others. So what.
As of this moment, Cottam and Morgan have been inconsequential, and are buried behind a TE the Chiefs won't trade and a 23-year-old Pollard who the organization believeds is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
They are being groomed to replace departing players. Its called rebuilding a football team.
At this moment, the Chiefs gained no salary benefits from the trade.
But we didn't have to give out 30 mil guarenteed money.
At this moment, the Chiefs have no prosoects for turning this around.
Bullsh!t.
At this moment, the Chiefs are collossally untalented at most of the team's positions.
Bullsh!t.
At this moment, the Chiefs RB of the present is being suspended (and will be cut) and their RB of the future is hurt.
LJ was a mistake. And injuries happen. Smith, Savage, and Battle will step up.
At this moment, the most talented Chiefs players, Waters and Tony, look as if they'll retire before coming back to this mess.
Uh, thats why we got Cottam and Albert for Allen.
At this moment, the Chiefs have nothing even resembling a long-term solution to problem at QB, 2WR, LG, RG, RB, RT, LDE, RDE, 2DT, MLB, ROLB, or FS.
We got Thig, Bradley, Charles, Hali, McBride, Tyler, Dorsey, Williams, Morgan, McGraw. OL problems are already well documented. You must not be watching the same team I have been...
At this moment, the Chiefs are still tearing down the team, not rebuilding it.
Bullsh!t.
At this moment, the Chiefs have a has-been at DC and a never was at OC.
Agreed.
At this moment, the Chiefs have a head coach that couldn't coach pop warner.
Agreed.
What do the Chiefs have, exactly? What makes you think the people who sunk us in this mess can turn it around? What have they done that's good for the Chiefs?
Its called rebuilding through the draft.
The Chiefs will never, never, never, never, never, never, never turn this around with CP and Herm Edwards. Ever. EVER. Three years from now, people will be criticizing me for bringing up mistakes like trading JA and drafting Dorsey instead of focusing on the current rebuilding project.
Trading JA IS focusing on the current rebuilding project.
Unless the Chiefs change this entire climate of losing, this franchise will be no better than the Lions, Bengals, or perennial losers.
Three years from now the Chiefs will be winning playoff games and making a run for the superbowl due to the development of young players acquired in the draft.
I'm sure you and people like you will change your attitude when we start winning games again. And we will.

Sn@keIze
10-29-2008, 09:56 AM
So you consider us to be in the same category as the Lions, Bungals etc...? But you are right, we went 13-3 in the playoffs and lost in Round 1 because of Carl. And then in the 94 playoffs, we lost becuase of Carl. Good thing the players never have to be accountable with you guys.
I didnt say that we are in the same category.

And as far as the accountability goes. Yes, I do hold the players accountable...but I hold the ones who decide what players are on the field to a higher accountability.

We have a history of unexplainable roster management. Rich Gannon being the most glaring obvious.

For Example:

a) We got rid of Donnie Edwards in his prime,( then take him back when hes cashed).

b) Waste our First round pic on LJ when we had Priest when we needed D pics. ( I dont care if Priest was hurt or not, our D needed help).

c) I still dont see why we had to get rid of Micheal Bennett. Right now hes sitting on the sidelines of TB rotting away and he was good to us. It would be nice have him now.

These are just random things at the top of my head, the list goes on and on.

balto
10-29-2008, 10:11 AM
:lol:

And if I remember right. We trade Draft pick with the Steelers? and we took LJ in the late 20's and The Steelers took
Troy Polamalu

:lol::lol:

with our spot!!!!!

Ya ok LJ is a stuf but think of what it would of been like to go after OUR need that year in D players and if we would of picked Polamalu??????

Bike
10-29-2008, 10:20 AM
:lol:

And if I remember right. We trade Draft pick with the Steelers? and we took LJ in the late 20's and The Steelers took
Troy Polamalu

:lol::lol:

with our spot!!!!!

Ya ok LJ is a stuf but think of what it would of been like to go after OUR need that year in D players and if we would of picked Polamalu??????
No doubt.:bananen_smilies046:

garciakcfan
10-29-2008, 10:32 AM
wow jared allen has 20 sacks holy sh!t maybe we should have kept him, lol

garciakcfan
10-29-2008, 10:35 AM
actually he only has 5 noob!!!!!!

Misread, lol, our d line.... but 5 sacks isnt a strong enough point considering his contract and where we are in the season

garciakcfan
10-29-2008, 10:39 AM
lol, just looked it up our d line has 2 so jared allen doesnt have 10 sacks

Canada
10-29-2008, 12:44 PM
I didnt say that we are in the same category.

And as far as the accountability goes. Yes, I do hold the players accountable...but I hold the ones who decide what players are on the field to a higher accountability.

We have a history of unexplainable roster management. Rich Gannon being the most glaring obvious.

For Example:

a) We got rid of Donnie Edwards in his prime,( then take him back when hes cashed).

b) Waste our First round pic on LJ when we had Priest when we needed D pics. ( I dont care if Priest was hurt or not, our D needed help).

c) I still dont see why we had to get rid of Micheal Bennett. Right now hes sitting on the sidelines of TB rotting away and he was good to us. It would be nice have him now.

These are just random things at the top of my head, the list goes on and on.

I am not defending management, my point was that JMLamerson put us in the same catergory as the lion bungals etc

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 01:34 PM
At this moment, the Chiefs have nothing even resembling a long-term solution to problem at QB, 2WR, LG, RG, RB, RT, LDE, RDE, 2DT, MLB, ROLB, or FS.
We got Thig, Bradley, Charles, Hali, McBride, Tyler, Dorsey, Williams, Morgan, McGraw. OL problems are already well documented. You must not be watching the same team I have been...

I have to respond to this bit of extreme delusion, and to everyone else defending the trade of JA.

Glenn Dorsey got $23M of guarenteed money. JA got $30M. JA > Glenn Dorsey + $7M for the next 6-7 years. Dorsey is getting destroyed each and every weekend. I do think, like most DTs, he will get better in time. By "in time," I mean in his 2nd contract - like most DTs not named Sapp or Hayensworth. The Chiefs will have paid him oodles of money to get through his learning curve. Instead of signing a double-digit sacker for the next six years.

Right now, JA is on pace to get 10 to 11 sacks in a new defense this season. The Chiefs entire DL is on pace to 4-5 sacks this entire season (or 1 per lineman). Does anyone reading this really think we got a fair trade out of this?

Tyler Thigpen is not our QB of the future. He may (and I emphasize "may") turn out to be a servicable stopgap while we groom a QB of the future. But he does not have the tools to start 16 games a season for a NFL team.

Jamaal Charles may become a decent 3rd down back. He's a Leon Washington sort of player. He can't even finish one game right now as a full time back without getting some sort of injury. He isn't a guy you can call our RB of the future.

Tank, Hali, and Tyler are miserable against the run and cannot pressure the QB. They were wasted picks. They will not pan out into anything special. They got run over by the Titans for 334 yards. Why do people think they are anything but massive busts?

Explain to me how it makes any sense to draft a TE (Cottam) in the 3rd round (instead of OL) and then sit that TE behind Tony G., especially if you are turning down all trade offers for Tony G. Cottam's contract is up in 2010. If Tony G. can't play to 2010, then trade him for what you can get (a third rounder). If Tony G. can play to 2010, then all you drafted was the right to sign Cottam as a free agent. This whole sequence of events was idiotic.

Bradley has already washed out of the Bears, who aren't exactly awash with great receivers. Bradley caught a TD in a spread offense. Whoopee. That doesn't make him a long-term starter. If he pans out, then the Chiefs got a steal. Exactly how many Chiefs free agents have panned out in the past three years?

DuJuan Morgan is too slow to play FS. He is a natural SS. The Chiefs invested a 2nd rounder in Pollard in 2006 to be the SS of the future. How much sense does it make to use a 3rd rounder on a SS instead of an offensive lineman? And just like with Cottam, Morgan's contract is up in 2010. Do you expect him to replace the 23-year-old Pollard before 2010?

McGraw???? Really???? Besides his health issues (he's only finished one 16-game season), and his age (29 years old - a little too old to be a major component of a youth movement), he just isn't that good. A solid enough backup, but not exactly a future star.

Finally, as to Williams, like McGraw, he's 28-years-old - a bit too old to be called part of the youth movement. It doesn't help that he isn't very good. He's on pace for 60 tackles this season. And he's a building block of the future? He couldn't make most teams as a tackling dummy.

Look, pretending the Chiefs just need a tweak is ridiculous. I've been watching a team that is overmatched in its coaching and in its talent. Damon Huard, Tony G., DJ, Pollard, and LJ willed them to one victory this year. Three of those will not be on the team next year. DJ may not be here in two years.

The Chiefs are like the Isiah Thomas Knicks. They have drafted the wrong people for the wrong positions. They have signed idiotic extensions, made idiotic free agent contracts, and made idiotic trades. Their coach and GM are laughingstocks. They have a devoted fanbase that is getting fed up.

Don't pretend everything is going to be OK. Or that the Chiefs are three years away from a championship. They were lucky to win one game this season. Unless they change their GM and coach and get some talent, they'll be lucky to do that next year.

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 01:44 PM
I am not defending management, my point was that JMLamerson put us in the same catergory as the lion bungals etc

Our current management is as bad or worse than the Lions/Bengals current management. The Bengals were once a SB-worthy NFL franchise who were done in by poor management and are now a laughingstock. The Chiefs are headed in the exact same direction. All three teams have gone a very long time without a playoff win.

None of these teams are able to put forth a competitive team in today's NFL.

I will put Carl Peterson/Herm Edwards against any other GM/Coach in history as being the most destructive to a franchise.

Canada
10-29-2008, 01:45 PM
Its funny to me how you still seem to think that the sun rises and sets on Jared. You have a long winded post about how underacheiving all of the chiefs are yet Jared has 4 sacks and he is the key to turning it all around for us. You can quote numbers and stats all day but it does not change the fact that we adressed several needs with the trade of Jared Allen. We got the best D lineman in the draft, we got a great O lineman and corners, TE, etc...You are projecting what these guys are going to do this year. NEWS FLASH...we all know they are not doing great this year, but they are rookies. You say we won't be good in three years cause everyone good is going to leave. Another great theory. I guess you could be right. Nothing is going to be OK. Everyone who said we had one of the best drafts this year is dead wrong and you...you got it right. you can see what no one else can. Guess you showed us all what is going to happen!! thanks for your insight and telling us all!!

Canada
10-29-2008, 01:47 PM
Our current management is as bad or worse than the Lions/Bengals current management. The Bengals were once a SB-worthy NFL franchise who were done in by poor management and are now a laughingstock. The Chiefs are headed in the exact same direction. All three teams have gone a very long time without a playoff win.

None of these teams are able to put forth a competitive team in today's NFL.

I will put Carl Peterson/Herm Edwards against any other GM/Coach in history as being the most destructive to a franchise.

Matt Millen

Sn@keIze
10-29-2008, 01:52 PM
Unless they change their GM and coach and get some talent, they'll be lucky to do that next year.
Thats what its all about.

I wont argue with all your points. But I will say that in the NFL..a team can change from zero to heros in one season (like the 98 Rams, 4-12 to SB next season). Now that dont happen most the time.. but in 3 seasons anything is possible.

Who knows what coaching staff we'll have in three years. Hopefully Cowher.

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 01:55 PM
Its funny to me how you still seem to think that the sun rises and sets on Jared. You have a long winded post about how underacheiving all of the chiefs are yet Jared has 4 sacks and he is the key to turning it all around for us. You can quote numbers and stats all day but it does not change the fact that we adressed several needs with the trade of Jared Allen. We got the best D lineman in the draft, we got a great O lineman and corners, TE, etc...You are projecting what these guys are going to do this year. NEWS FLASH...we all know they are not doing great this year, but they are rookies. You say we won't be good in three years cause everyone good is going to leave. Another great theory. I guess you could be right. Nothing is going to be OK. Everyone who said we had one of the best drafts this year is dead wrong and you...you got it right. you can see what no one else can. Guess you showed us all what is going to happen!! thanks for your insight and telling us all!!

We did not get any corners for JA. We got a mixture of Albert, Cottam, and Morgan.

We would have drafted Albert or other OL with the 5th pick if not for the luxury of the 15th (turned 12th). Trading JA gave us the luxury to draft Dorsey with the 5th pick.

Dorsey is looking like a bust, and good franchises rarely draft DT in the first few picks because the money is too much for a player on a learining curve.

We traded a double-digit sack DE in his prime for project players and backups.

We did not need Cottam or Morgan, and they will not see significant playing time in their 1st contracts. We drafted backups at glamour positions instead of starting linemen.

How is this difficult for you to understand?

And what makes it worse, is that trading JA, while idiotic, was not even in the top-5 worst decisions of the Peterson/Edwards era.

Look, it stinks that this team stinks. You have a GM/coach who are tearing this team down at a level unprecedented in the NFL. If KC were a major market, everyone would be wondering how these clowns are getting away with this.

And those with a blind belief in our "rebuilding" plan deserve the present and future lousy product on the field.

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 02:06 PM
Thats what its all about.

I wont argue with all your points. But I will say that in the NFL..a team can change from zero to heros in one season (like the 98 Rams, 4-12 to SB next season). Now that dont happen most the time.. but in 3 seasons anything is possible.

Who knows what coaching staff we'll have in three years. Hopefully Cowher.

I agree entirely. In 1998, the Rams went 4-12 and were seen as perrenial losers.

In the offseason, the Rams traded for Marshall Faulk, found an unlikely QB in Kurt Warner, drafted Tory Holt and Dre Bly, and signed good free agents. Their superlative drafts in 1997 and 1998 also paid big dividends. They also signed a new OC, Mike Martz, who ran a high scoring offense.

Do you see the current Chiefs management doing these things? Under the Carl/Herm tenure, they haven't signed any good free agents, traded for any good players, drafted impact players, run even a medium scoring offense, or found a QB of the future.

A new management can do this. And my negative comments are based on the very real prospect of current management and their handpicked successors running this team for the next decade.

A new regime could change things. And I'll become much more positive the second we have a new regime.

Sn@keIze
10-29-2008, 02:07 PM
We did not get any corners for JA. We got a mixture of Albert, Cottam, and Morgan.

We would have drafted Albert or other OL with the 5th pick if not for the luxury of the 15th (turned 12th). Trading JA gave us the luxury to draft Dorsey with the 5th pick.

Dorsey is looking like a bust, and good franchises rarely draft DT in the first few picks because the money is too much for a player on a learining curve.

We traded a double-digit sack DE in his prime for project players and backups.

We did not need Cottam or Morgan, and they will not see significant playing time in their 1st contracts. We drafted backups at glamour positions instead of starting linemen.

How is this difficult for you to understand?

And what makes it worse, is that trading JA, while idiotic, was not even in the top-5 worst decisions of the Peterson/Edwards era.

Look, it stinks that this team stinks. You have a GM/coach who are tearing this team down at a level unprecedented in the NFL. If KC were a major market, everyone would be wondering how these clowns are getting away with this.

And those with a blind belief in our "rebuilding" plan deserve the present and future lousy product on the field.I dont think its fair to say that any rookie is a bust. We got to give them time.
Now next year theyllgo in, having gottin theyre arses kicked a bit and eyes opened a lil more, hopefully theyll be better.
Plus Coaching and bad playcalling are assisiting in these players not performing up to par. I dont care how good a player you are, you run the same vanilla D (and offense) the opponents are figure you out and render you useless.

Now I will start ripping on Tamba Hali. He should be performing like the 1st rounder he was by now.

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 02:08 PM
Matt Millen

Matt Millen took the Lions from 9-7 to 2-14. Carl/Herm has taken this team from 10-6 to 1-15.

Matt Millen may have drafted very, very poorly - but he drafted better than Carl/Herm.

I would take the Lions right now against the Chiefs on a neutral field.

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 02:12 PM
I dont think its fair to say that any rookie is a bust. We got to give them time.
Now next year theyllgo in, having gottin theyre arses kicked a bit and eyes opened a lil more, hopefully theyll be better.
Plus Coaching and bad playcalling are assisiting in these players not performing up to par. I dont care how good a player you are, you run the same vanilla D (and offense) the opponents are figure you out and render you useless.

Now I will start ripping on Tamba Hali. He should be performing like the 1st rounder he was by now.

You're right. And I don't mean to call Dorsey a bust. All I am trying to get people to understand that Dorsey's value to this franchise is not nearly equal to what JA's would have been over the next 5-6 years. That Dorsey (like almost every DT out there) will take a great deal of time to become acclimated to the NFL. That we are vastly overpaying for his production for the next few years. That good franchises rarely draft DTs in the top 5 because of the price tag for a learning player. That good franchises never trade a franchise DE.

yashi
10-29-2008, 02:18 PM
I think there's a lot more "Hali Haters" than deserved. Give the guy a break, he had more sacks his rookie year than Mario Williams. And he's been playing out of position until last week, since for whatever reason Gunther decided to stick him at right end when he's played left his entire life.

Now if he keeps under-performing even with the switch back to left end, then I think it would be fair to start criticizing him, but until then we should solely blame management IMO.

Sn@keIze
10-29-2008, 02:19 PM
Matt Millen took the Lions from 9-7 to 2-14. Carl/Herm has taken this team from 10-6 to 1-15.

Matt Millen may have drafted very, very poorly - but he drafted better than Carl/Herm.

I would take the Lions right now against the Chiefs on a neutral field.When were we 1-15?

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 02:29 PM
When were we 1-15?

Now.

Canada
10-29-2008, 02:29 PM
How is this difficult for you to understand?



The only thing you have posted that is difficult to understand is why you have ripped on pretty much every single rookie we have without any real knowledge of how those picks are going to turn out. You are assumiong they are a bust. Your obvious hatred for our management has clouded your vision completely. You are comparing us to teams who have been perennial losers for decades. Sorry if I have a hard time agreeing with that. I have said MANY times that I am not defending CP or Herm. I think their time is up, but whether you agree with it or not, CP has brough some good football teams to KC. Granted he does not have the vast knowledge that you have, but then again he is not second guessing other peoples decisions. You say we have no talent on the field, I think you are watching aonther team. :bananen_smilies046:

Sn@keIze
10-29-2008, 02:32 PM
we're 1-6 not 1-15. Big difference. 9 games to go. We may muster up a win or two. Damn, and I though I was pessimestic.

jmlamerson
10-29-2008, 03:06 PM
The only thing you have posted that is difficult to understand is why you have ripped on pretty much every single rookie we have without any real knowledge of how those picks are going to turn out. You are assumiong they are a bust. Your obvious hatred for our management has clouded your vision completely. You are comparing us to teams who have been perennial losers for decades. Sorry if I have a hard time agreeing with that. I have said MANY times that I am not defending CP or Herm. I think their time is up, but whether you agree with it or not, CP has brough some good football teams to KC. Granted he does not have the vast knowledge that you have, but then again he is not second guessing other peoples decisions. You say we have no talent on the field, I think you are watching aonther team. :bananen_smilies046:

1. I have never said Albert, Carr, or Flowers were anything but good choices. I have said that Albert should be moved to RG and a proper LT found.

2. It isn't that Dorsey, Morgan, Charles, Cottam, and the rest of our 2008 draft was made up of necessarily bad players. They are just wasted picks on our team (although some, like Johnston, Robinson, and Richardson are bad players).

We drafted TEs (2!), DTs, Ss, RBs, and other project players instead of what we needed. The Chiefs will not see any benefit from these picks because established players will be ahead of them for their entire contract, or because they are project players who will not be fully productive until their 2nd contracts.

This isn't a terribly difficult thing to understand. Good GMs understand it. Bad ones don't.

What did the Chiefs need going into the 2008 draft? We needed starters at LT, RG, RT, RDE, QB, CB, and OLB. We drafted CB (Flowers and Carr) and LT (Albert). We did draft busts (is anyone calling them different) at RT (Richardson) and RDE (Johnston). We also drafted DT, TE (2!), RB, S, WRs. We wasted all but three picks out of thirteen on players we didn't need or who are outright busts.

We did not need backup safeties, running backs, or tight ends in the 3rd round instead of QB, RG, and RT.

3. The Bengals and Lions were considered good teams until about 1990. They fell apart into bad teams because of poor management.

4. The Chiefs have very, very few players on this team that could start elsewhere in the NFL. Tyler Thigpen does not start on any other NFL team. Our o-line, except Albert and Waters, does not start on any other NFL team. Bradley does not start on any other NFL team.

There are 31 other teams with better players than the Chiefs have at QB, 2WR, RG, RT, LDE, and MLB.

There are at least 24 other teams with better players than the Chiefs have at RB, FB, C, RDE, ROLB, 1DT, 2DT, and FS.

The Chiefs have (at their position) top 20 players at arguably 1WR (Bowe), TE (Gonzo), Colquitt (P), LOLB (DJ), and LG (Waters). They have young players who are showing promise at 1CB (Flowers), 2CB (Carr), LT/RG (Albert), KR (Savage), C (Niswanger) and arguably SS (Pollard). They also have project players in Charles, Dorsey, Cottam, and Morgan - none of whom in intended to be a great force for the Chiefs over the next few years.

That. Is. It.

Even assuming Gonzo and Waters don't retire (a pretty big assumption), this is not the foundation for a rebuilding team.

IlovetheChiefs
10-29-2008, 03:47 PM
we're 1-6 not 1-15. Big difference. 9 games to go. We may muster up a win or two. Damn, and I though I was pessimestic.

I think he means going back to last year too (1-15 in the past 16 games).

After getting blown out 2 games in a row and considering our rather hard schedule remaining, I was getting a little pessimistic that we might end up around 2-14 to 3-13 this year. But Thigpen surprised us and we nearly upset the Jets on the road. Plus the Donks and Dolts are playing badly (And hey, we are 1-0 against them so far this year :D ) so I think our 4 remaining divisional games are far more winable than before. We also have the Bengals. And home games against the Dolphins and Saints, winable games too if we played like last week. Not saying we won't finish with 4 or less wins, but I think there's a reasonable chance we could start doing better the rest of the way (even if we lose a lot of close ones, just to avoid any (or many) more of those type games we had against Carolina, Atlanta, and Tennessee would be good to see).

I'm glad we plan to use that spread offense again this week against the Bucs. And with a good defense like theirs, our usual conventional runs down the middle would probably result in mostly 3 and outs anyway.

Should also help that TB hasn't been to Arrowhead since 1986. But too bad that they aren't coming to KC a few weeks later (TB has always lost so many games when the weather is cold but this Sunday the forecast is for 70 degrees).

IlovetheChiefs
10-29-2008, 04:48 PM
Another bright spot on the upcoming Bucs game:

They are 5-3 and we are 1-6 so at first glance that looks troublesome. BUT, on the road they are 1-3 and at home we are 1-2. So our home record is better than their road record. :)

LET'S GO KC CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Darth CarlSatan
10-29-2008, 06:47 PM
I was screaming at the TV when this stupid play calling came up. What kind of idiot does Herm have to be to make those idiotic calls. Run out the clock my a$$!. Herm knows who he was up against, and he knew our defense was not going to be able to stop Favre. Yeah we had a couple of good defensive plays, but overall, the Jets walked all over our defense.

Damnit anyway, I am so sick and tired of this sorry-a$ excuse for a head coach I could just scream!!!

:mob: :mob: :mob:

Yep; My New MANTRA:

"Our Players Are Better Than Our Coaches".

Three7s
10-29-2008, 06:48 PM
I think he means going back to last year too (1-15 in the past 16 games).

After getting blown out 2 games in a row and considering our rather hard schedule remaining, I was getting a little pessimistic that we might end up around 2-14 to 3-13 this year. But Thigpen surprised us and we nearly upset the Jets on the road. Plus the Donks and Dolts are playing badly (And hey, we are 1-0 against them so far this year :D ) so I think our 4 remaining divisional games are far more winable than before. We also have the Bengals. And home games against the Dolphins and Saints, winable games too if we played like last week. Not saying we won't finish with 4 or less wins, but I think there's a reasonable chance we could start doing better the rest of the way (even if we lose a lot of close ones, just to avoid any (or many) more of those type games we had against Carolina, Atlanta, and Tennessee would be good to see).

I'm glad we plan to use that spread offense again this week against the Bucs. And with a good defense like theirs, our usual conventional runs down the middle would probably result in mostly 3 and outs anyway.

Should also help that TB hasn't been to Arrowhead since 1986. But too bad that they aren't coming to KC a few weeks later (TB has always lost so many games when the weather is cold but this Sunday the forecast is for 70 degrees).
Our best chance at winning games are against teams with bad defenses. That way, we'll be able to get some points and see if the opponent can make some mistakes to help us out.

Good defenses will be tough for us. Unlike against teams with bad defenses, we'll be forced to get turnovers to keep their defense on the field and wear them out. Some lucky breaks will have to happen, as well.

The Bucs offense is in the same area as ours, so I'm not too concerned with them running away with this one. At most, it'll be a 2-score game. If we can get a few lucky turnovers and some breaks, we could steal it.

slc chief
10-29-2008, 10:22 PM
Matt Millen took the Lions from 9-7 to 2-14. Carl/Herm has taken this team from 10-6 to 1-15.

Matt Millen may have drafted very, very poorly - but he drafted better than Carl/Herm.

I would take the Lions right now against the Chiefs on a neutral field.
what are you smoking from your post all i can tell about you is that you are a CHIEF HATER GET THAT CRAP OUT OF HERE you lions fan once again you are high in the night

chief31
10-31-2008, 05:59 AM
I think that there is alot that is being over-looked about Jared Allen. As Chiefs fans, I expect that you are all aware of the fact that he broke-up alot of plays for us, against the run, and the pass.

Ever watched him swat passes from the air, when he didn't get to the QB?

Ever notice him causing fumbles?

Ever see him chasing-down runs from the opposite side of the field?

Jared became the proto-type at DE while he was with us. And all anyone seems to see right now is sacks. There is so much more to it than that.

Let's account for the fact that Hali got alot of extra sacks from JA flushing QBs from the pocket. While doing that, maybe we can see the same thing happening in Minn. right now, as Kevin Williams currently has twice as many (6) sacks as he had all season in '07. (3)

Just look at the actual results so far. How is our defense doing? Does it suck worse than last season? Is it pretty-much as bad as it was under Vermiel?

Really? Even with the addition of Dorsey?

That is how much of an impact that JA had on this team. He left, and we are crap without him.

Trading Allen, a proven commodity at a position that is hard to fill (pass-rusher), for any number of unproven rookies is pretty risky. But we are talking about one 1st, and a couple of 3rds. Not exactly the cream of the crop.

Value-wise, I say we made a big mistake.
But then, I say it from every angle of the JA subject. :D

Satch
10-31-2008, 08:54 AM
I think that there is alot that is being over-looked about Jared Allen. As Chiefs fans, I expect that you are all aware of the fact that he broke-up alot of plays for us, against the run, and the pass.

Ever watched him swat passes from the air, when he didn't get to the QB?

Ever notice him causing fumbles?

Ever see him chasing-down runs from the opposite side of the field?

Jared became the proto-type at DE while he was with us. And all anyone seems to see right now is sacks. There is so much more to it than that.

Let's account for the fact that Hali got alot of extra sacks from JA flushing QBs from the pocket. While doing that, maybe we can see the same thing happening in Minn. right now, as Kevin Williams currently has twice as many (6) sacks as he had all season in '07. (3)

Just look at the actual results so far. How is our defense doing? Does it suck worse than last season? Is it pretty-much as bad as it was under Vermiel?

Really? Even with the addition of Dorsey?

That is how much of an impact that JA had on this team. He left, and we are crap without him.

Trading Allen, a proven commodity at a position that is hard to fill (pass-rusher), for any number of unproven rookies is pretty risky. But we are talking about one 1st, and a couple of 3rds. Not exactly the cream of the crop.

Value-wise, I say we made a big mistake.
But then, I say it from every angle of the JA subject. :D

I agree completely with your post. Especially the Hali take. I have never been impressed with the guy and have said to myself over and over; another "eye for talent" pick that is doing basically...nothing. Last year was without doubt his best year and gee, JA was on the other side drawing double teams, blowing up plays and making life hell for the opposing QB. All on a team that couldn't wipe its arse, let alone win games. Yep, getting rid of that baggage JA has really helped the disposition and overall performance of the defense. I had no idea how much he held back this team with his sub par play. To semi quote Herm from a press conference last season; You know, he was only drafted as a long snapper. You know, a long snapper. A long snapper. That's what he was, a long snapper.

Darth CarlSatan
10-31-2008, 02:53 PM
I think that there is alot that is being over-looked about Jared Allen. As Chiefs fans, I expect that you are all aware of the fact that he broke-up alot of plays for us, against the run, and the pass.

Ever watched him swat passes from the air, when he didn't get to the QB?

Ever notice him causing fumbles?

Ever see him chasing-down runs from the opposite side of the field?

Jared became the proto-type at DE while he was with us. And all anyone seems to see right now is sacks. There is so much more to it than that.

Let's account for the fact that Hali got alot of extra sacks from JA flushing QBs from the pocket. While doing that, maybe we can see the same thing happening in Minn. right now, as Kevin Williams currently has twice as many (6) sacks as he had all season in '07. (3)

Just look at the actual results so far. How is our defense doing? Does it suck worse than last season? Is it pretty-much as bad as it was under Vermiel?

Really? Even with the addition of Dorsey?

That is how much of an impact that JA had on this team. He left, and we are crap without him.

Trading Allen, a proven commodity at a position that is hard to fill (pass-rusher), for any number of unproven rookies is pretty risky. But we are talking about one 1st, and a couple of 3rds. Not exactly the cream of the crop.

Value-wise, I say we made a big mistake.
But then, I say it from every angle of the JA subject. :D

:sign0098::yahoo::bananen_smilies046:

And THAT, Ladies and Gentlemen, seals the deal:

"Let the Brother receive the Light"!
YouTube - the touch
Your cloak and handbook will arrive in the mail shortly.:D:D:D

Canada
10-31-2008, 04:58 PM
I agree completely with your post. Especially the Hali take. I have never been impressed with the guy and have said to myself over and over; another "eye for talent" pick that is doing basically...nothing. Last year was without doubt his best year and gee, JA was on the other side drawing double teams, blowing up plays and making life hell for the opposing QB. All on a team that couldn't wipe its arse, let alone win games. Yep, getting rid of that baggage JA has really helped the disposition and overall performance of the defense. I had no idea how much he held back this team with his sub par play. To semi quote Herm from a press conference last season; You know, he was only drafted as a long snapper. You know, a long snapper. A long snapper. That's what he was, a long snapper.

Is there a point to this post or are you just looking to take a few shots at the team we have now!! Way to support the team. JA play for Minnesota now. He has 4 sacks. Feel free to go kiss his *** over there.

Darth CarlSatan
10-31-2008, 07:49 PM
Is there a point to this post or are you just looking to take a few shots at the team we have now!! Way to support the team. JA play for Minnesota now. He has 4 sacks. Feel free to go kiss his *** over there.

Hali will be more effective now that the adjustment has been made, and I will support him until he proves me wrong.

That said, I would kiss JA's feet and Carl's a** if it meant getting Allen back to Kansas City.
This was a f*ck up of MAJOR proportions, and yet another Sterling Example of why CARLHERM are NOT the people needed to coach and move the talent and team forward.

Darth CarlSatan
11-01-2008, 04:11 AM
Thats what its all about.

I wont argue with all your points. But I will say that in the NFL..a team can change from zero to heros in one season (like the 98 Rams, 4-12 to SB next season). Now that dont happen most the time.. but in 3 seasons anything is possible.

Who knows what coaching staff we'll have in three years. Hopefully Cowher.

Ahh...Dare to Dream...:bananen_smilies046:

Satch
11-01-2008, 01:16 PM
Is there a point to this post or are you just looking to take a few shots at the team we have now!! Way to support the team. JA play for Minnesota now. He has 4 sacks. Feel free to go kiss his *** over there.

Yes, there is a point genius. I could type a page full of stuff explaining this to you but a good number of other posters in this thread already did a fine job of it. The fact that cheer leader types like you expect every fan to take the rah rah approach toward at team that is being destroyed by its HC/GM speaks volumes. I see from your title you brag of being a Chiefs fan for over 20 years. I have been one for over 40 years. So I guess that makes me twice as qualified as you to comment about the team or its coach.

The title of this post was about the head coach. Which is exactly what I commented on. The JA stuff came up later. I responded to that as well. BOTH times, I agreed with posters. I did not flame anyone on this board including you. I took my shots at the COACH, not the team. Though lord knows, there are plenty of guys on this team who are average players including Hali. Look at his stats last year, then this year. Without JA pulling double teams, he is basically no where. If he improves, fine.

The whole JA thing has a name for it now in the NFL. It is called being "John Taited". Tony G referenced this a couple of weeks ago and mentioned both JA and JT by name. The whole way this was handled goes straight to the matter with our "coach". He goes 4-12 last year and the only thing that kept if from being worse was a defense that at least showed guts and leadership with JA on the team. Somehow we were about 18 or 19 in defensive rankings last year with JA and now we are either 31 or 32. Yeah, he made zero difference on our defense. And all that without benefit of our number five, can't miss, "instant impact", nose tackle. And what happened during the contract fiasco with JA? The guy couldn't just shut up and leave it alone. He went straight to a public podium and insulted the guy by repeatedly calling him a long snapper. Yeah, a real team builder. A real pro. A supposedly defense first coach threw his best player under the bus. If they didn't want him under contract then just come out and say it and tell him he is going to be traded or cut. But don't try to diminish his playing ability and value while at the same time pandering to a hothead RB who btw is now inactive for discipline problems. See Mr. Canuck, that sort of stuff IS the point. When we have 15,000 fans and blacked out games at Arrowhead, it might then dawn on you.

BTW, tell you what. I will kiss Jared's arse and you can grab a Molson, head out to the ice fishing shack on the frozen lake, and stop and kiss a moose's *** on the way, eh hoser?

okikcfan
11-01-2008, 01:30 PM
Well said Satch!!!!:yahoo:

tornadospotter
11-01-2008, 01:38 PM
Yes, there is a point genius. I could type a page full of stuff explaining this to you but a good number of other posters in this thread already did a fine job of it. The fact that cheer leader types like you expect every fan to take the rah rah approach toward at team that is being destroyed by its HC/GM speaks volumes. I see from your title you brag of being a Chiefs fan for over 20 years. I have been one for over 40 years. So I guess that makes me twice as qualified as you to comment about the team or its coach.

The title of this post was about the head coach. Which is exactly what I commented on. The JA stuff came up later. I responded to that as well. BOTH times, I agreed with posters. I did not flame anyone on this board including you. I took my shots at the COACH, not the team. Though lord knows, there are plenty of guys on this team who are average players including Hali. Look at his stats last year, then this year. Without JA pulling double teams, he is basically no where. If he improves, fine.

The whole JA thing has a name for it now in the NFL. It is called being "John Taited". Tony G referenced this a couple of weeks ago and mentioned both JA and JT by name. The whole way this was handled goes straight to the matter with our "coach". He goes 4-12 last year and the only thing that kept if from being worse was a defense that at least showed guts and leadership with JA on the team. Somehow we were about 18 or 19 in defensive rankings last year with JA and now we are either 31 or 32. Yeah, he made zero difference on our defense. And all that without benefit of our number five, can't miss, "instant impact", nose tackle. And what happened during the contract fiasco with JA? The guy couldn't just shut up and leave it alone. He went straight to a public podium and insulted the guy by repeatedly calling him a long snapper. Yeah, a real team builder. A real pro. A supposedly defense first coach threw his best player under the bus. If they didn't want him under contract then just come out and say it and tell him he is going to be traded or cut. But don't try to diminish his playing ability and value while at the same time pandering to a hothead RB who btw is now inactive for discipline problems. See Mr. Canuck, that sort of stuff IS the point. When we have 15,000 fans and blacked out games at Arrowhead, it might then dawn on you.

BTW, tell you what. I will kiss Jared's arse and you can grab a Molson, head out to the ice fishing shack on the frozen lake, and stop and kiss a moose's *** on the way, eh hoser?

The whole JA thing is a bunch of crap!!!!! Jared is not a Chief anymore!!! Much of that is his fault also!!!!!! cp was a jerk about Jared, but the fault is on both of them! Like it or not, you spout off to your boss and see what you get!!:11:

Sn@keIze
11-01-2008, 01:54 PM
Is there a point to this post or are you just looking to take a few shots at the team we have now!! Way to support the team. JA play for Minnesota now. He has 4 sacks. Feel free to go kiss his *** over there.
Is that what you would have to say if TG went somewhere else?

I enjoy hearing bout JA. He is still a stud. Getting holding calls, running people out of bounds in the endzone etc. I hope the best for our transacted players, you cant blame them for wanting to leave CP and Herms piss poor system.

Darth CarlSatan
11-01-2008, 05:41 PM
Is that what you would have to say if TG went somewhere else?

I enjoy hearing bout JA. He is still a stud. Getting holding calls, running people out of bounds in the endzone etc. I hope the best for our transacted players, you cant blame them for wanting to leave CP and Herms piss poor system.

"Hello head"? "Meet Nail".

chief31
11-01-2008, 07:09 PM
The whole JA thing is a bunch of crap!!!!! Jared is not a Chief anymore!!! Much of that is his fault also!!!!!! cp was a jerk about Jared, but the fault is on both of them! Like it or not, you spout off to your boss and see what you get!!:11:

I don't like it. And the boss should have been fired, instead of the heart of the team.

That is the point.

Darth CarlSatan
11-01-2008, 07:47 PM
I don't like it. And the boss should have been fired, instead of the heart of the team.

That is the point.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/BlackMoses.png
"Black Moses" and I agree completely. :D

Darth CarlSatan
11-01-2008, 07:50 PM
The whole JA thing is a bunch of crap!!!!! Jared is not a Chief anymore!!! Much of that is his fault also!!!!!! cp was a jerk about Jared, but the fault is on both of them! Like it or not, you spout off to your boss and see what you get!!:11:

What if you threaten to kill your boss in a song? What does THAT get you?

Answer: A lot of money.

chief31
11-01-2008, 09:07 PM
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/
"Black Moses" and I agree completely. :D


My response is...........

:character00228:

Darth CarlSatan
11-01-2008, 09:28 PM
My response is...........

:character00228:

:bananen_smilies046::bananen_smilies046:
YouTube - South Park - Chef & Meat Loaf - Tonight Is Right For Love
YouTube - South Park - Chef - Simultaneous
YouTube - Isaac Hayes - Shaft - live 1973

Canada
11-01-2008, 09:36 PM
Yes, there is a point genius. I could type a page full of stuff explaining this to you but a good number of other posters in this thread already did a fine job of it. The fact that cheer leader types like you expect every fan to take the rah rah approach toward at team that is being destroyed by its HC/GM speaks volumes. I see from your title you brag of being a Chiefs fan for over 20 years. I have been one for over 40 years. So I guess that makes me twice as qualified as you to comment about the team or its coach.

The title of this post was about the head coach. Which is exactly what I commented on. The JA stuff came up later. I responded to that as well. BOTH times, I agreed with posters. I did not flame anyone on this board including you. I took my shots at the COACH, not the team. Though lord knows, there are plenty of guys on this team who are average players including Hali. Look at his stats last year, then this year. Without JA pulling double teams, he is basically no where. If he improves, fine.

The whole JA thing has a name for it now in the NFL. It is called being "John Taited". Tony G referenced this a couple of weeks ago and mentioned both JA and JT by name. The whole way this was handled goes straight to the matter with our "coach". He goes 4-12 last year and the only thing that kept if from being worse was a defense that at least showed guts and leadership with JA on the team. Somehow we were about 18 or 19 in defensive rankings last year with JA and now we are either 31 or 32. Yeah, he made zero difference on our defense. And all that without benefit of our number five, can't miss, "instant impact", nose tackle. And what happened during the contract fiasco with JA? The guy couldn't just shut up and leave it alone. He went straight to a public podium and insulted the guy by repeatedly calling him a long snapper. Yeah, a real team builder. A real pro. A supposedly defense first coach threw his best player under the bus. If they didn't want him under contract then just come out and say it and tell him he is going to be traded or cut. But don't try to diminish his playing ability and value while at the same time pandering to a hothead RB who btw is now inactive for discipline problems. See Mr. Canuck, that sort of stuff IS the point. When we have 15,000 fans and blacked out games at Arrowhead, it might then dawn on you.

BTW, tell you what. I will kiss Jared's arse and you can grab a Molson, head out to the ice fishing shack on the frozen lake, and stop and kiss a moose's *** on the way, eh hoser?

Gotta all names to prove a point. I don't waste my time trying to arguing with some ******** telling me I am dumb cause I am Canadian...Pick up a map hick.. Do I pretend this team is good? No. Do I pretend that we don't need improvements? No. But I guess the bid difference between me and you is that I hope guys pan out and I don't dog them 8 weeks into their rookie seasons. You have some sort of man crush on JA, get over it. He is gone and he had his part in leaving too. Don't ask me for sympathy for a guy who wanted to be a Chief, but 8.8 million was not enough for that to happen. I have never said that I think Jared was not a gre4at player or fan/teammate favorite, but the TWO sides could not meet in the middle. He left. The fact that you sit here and piss and moan aobut it for months does not make you some sort of football guru. You regurgitate the previous post and make sure you get a random shot in about how the Chiefs suck and I am supposed to think you have some sort of deep in depth knowledge about the Chiefs that none of us can see. Get over yourself old man. You wanna be negative, be negative. I really don't give a f*** but don't act like you know more cause you are able to b***h about anything and everything whenever you want. :bananen_smilies046:

And I will grab a Molson (cause American beer is what I piss out after a good Canadian beer) And I will go ice fishing (cause its a goodday of drinkin beer) And if I see a moose I may be drunk eough to try and kiss it (but I will be thinking about how you really wated to kiss Jareds big hairy white ***! :iamwithstupid::beer:

Big Daddy Tek
11-02-2008, 08:19 PM
Gotta all names to prove a point. I don't waste my time trying to arguing with some ******** telling me I am dumb cause I am Canadian...Pick up a map hick.. Do I pretend this team is good? No. Do I pretend that we don't need improvements? No. But I guess the bid difference between me and you is that I hope guys pan out and I don't dog them 8 weeks into their rookie seasons. You have some sort of man crush on JA, get over it. He is gone and he had his part in leaving too. Don't ask me for sympathy for a guy who wanted to be a Chief, but 8.8 million was not enough for that to happen. I have never said that I think Jared was not a gre4at player or fan/teammate favorite, but the TWO sides could not meet in the middle. He left. The fact that you sit here and piss and moan aobut it for months does not make you some sort of football guru. You regurgitate the previous post and make sure you get a random shot in about how the Chiefs suck and I am supposed to think you have some sort of deep in depth knowledge about the Chiefs that none of us can see. Get over yourself old man. You wanna be negative, be negative. I really don't give a f*** but don't act like you know more cause you are able to b***h about anything and everything whenever you want. :bananen_smilies046:

And I will grab a Molson (cause American beer is what I piss out after a good Canadian beer) And I will go ice fishing (cause its a goodday of drinkin beer) And if I see a moose I may be drunk eough to try and kiss it (but I will be thinking about how you really wated to kiss Jareds big hairy white ***! :iamwithstupid::beer:
Yeah! Canada crushes another idiot again. Your like a ****ing highlight reel!

Bike
11-03-2008, 10:41 AM
Gotta all names to prove a point. I don't waste my time trying to arguing with some ******** telling me I am dumb cause I am Canadian...Pick up a map hick.. Do I pretend this team is good? No. Do I pretend that we don't need improvements? No. But I guess the bid difference between me and you is that I hope guys pan out and I don't dog them 8 weeks into their rookie seasons. You have some sort of man crush on JA, get over it. He is gone and he had his part in leaving too. Don't ask me for sympathy for a guy who wanted to be a Chief, but 8.8 million was not enough for that to happen. I have never said that I think Jared was not a gre4at player or fan/teammate favorite, but the TWO sides could not meet in the middle. He left. The fact that you sit here and piss and moan aobut it for months does not make you some sort of football guru. You regurgitate the previous post and make sure you get a random shot in about how the Chiefs suck and I am supposed to think you have some sort of deep in depth knowledge about the Chiefs that none of us can see. Get over yourself old man. You wanna be negative, be negative. I really don't give a f*** but don't act like you know more cause you are able to b***h about anything and everything whenever you want. :bananen_smilies046:

And I will grab a Molson (cause American beer is what I piss out after a good Canadian beer) And I will go ice fishing (cause its a goodday of drinkin beer) And if I see a moose I may be drunk eough to try and kiss it (but I will be thinking about how you really wated to kiss Jareds big hairy white ***! :iamwithstupid::beer:
I have to agree with Canada since I am a Chiefs fan. Allen didn't give a sh!t enough about the Chiefs to accept 9 mil/yr after 2 dwi's, so why should I give a sh!t about him? He's nothing but another Carlos Beltran as far as I'm concerned. A frickin rent-a-player gone to the highest bidder. He was a great player while he was here, but he aint here. I think I'll concern myself with the young players we got for him as this team rebuilds into a playoff contender in the next couple years...

chief31
11-06-2008, 05:35 AM
I have to agree with Canada since I am a Chiefs fan. Allen didn't give a sh!t enough about the Chiefs to accept 9 mil/yr after 2 dwi's, so why should I give a sh!t about him? He's nothing but another Carlos Beltran as far as I'm concerned. A frickin rent-a-player gone to the highest bidder. He was a great player while he was here, but he aint here. I think I'll concern myself with the young players we got for him as this team rebuilds into a playoff contender in the next couple years...

He did accept the offer. Then he got traded. I am a Chiefs fan too. But I don't turn on our players, just because Carl Peterson screws them over.

Allen isn't here anymore. But he damn well aught to be!

Canada
11-06-2008, 09:20 AM
He did accept the offer. Then he got traded. I am a Chiefs fan too. But I don't turn on our players, just because Carl Peterson screws them over.

Allen isn't here anymore. But he damn well aught to be!

Can you please stop making Jared out to be totally innocent in all this? First off he demanded a trade if he did not get the contract that HE wanted. $8.8 million for a season of proving that he would not be a liability to the team was not enough to buy his loyalty. No one has "turned" on Jared. The fact is he is now a Viking so I do not spend all day complaining and speculating about how things might be if he was here. Maybe we are better, maybe we are worse. Everyone talks about all the great attributes he brings to the table, but the fact is we were 4-12 last season. He did not liike the offer given to him (which was more than fair) so he got what he wanted. A trade. He made the ultimatum, not CP. So explain to me why it is that this is all the fault of management. I am not saying that they do not share in the blame, but Jared played his part too. You act like he was an innocent angel in all of this. Two DUI's and a 4 game suspension. (reduced to 2) but still a high risk investment for $74 million don't ya think.

Canada
11-06-2008, 09:21 AM
He did accept the offer. Then he got traded. I am a Chiefs fan too. But I don't turn on our players, just because Carl Peterson screws them over.

Allen isn't here anymore. But he damn well aught to be!

He did not accept the offer, he refused to be franchised and that is why they said he can go to Minnesota.

chief31
11-07-2008, 11:04 AM
He did not accept the offer, he refused to be franchised and that is why they said he can go to Minnesota.

He did accept the offer. He said that he would play under the tag, then leave after that contract was up. The only way to refuse that offer would have been to retire from The NFL. He didn't do that.


Can you please stop making Jared out to be totally innocent in all this?

First off he demanded a trade if he did not get the contract that HE wanted.

No. You are wrong. After a year of seeking a long-term contract with The Chiefs, without ever getting an offer, he was invited to seek a trade.

$8.8 million for a season of proving that he would not be a liability to the team was not enough to buy his loyalty.

If it weren't for the fact that they had already had him prove it for one season. He was told to shut-up and prove it last off-season. And that is exactly what he did.

No one has "turned" on Jared. The fact is he is now a Viking so I do not spend all day complaining and speculating about how things might be if he was here. Maybe we are better, maybe we are worse.

Everyone talks about all the great attributes he brings to the table, but the fact is we were 4-12 last season. He did not liike the offer given to him (which was more than fair) so he got what he wanted. A trade.

Because the offer wasn't the offer that he was told he would get.

He made the ultimatum, not CP. So explain to me why it is that this is all the fault of management.

Because Jared Allen wanted an extension in '07, but was told that the team needed him to stay out of trouble for a season first. He did, then asked for that long-term contract and got invited to leave.

I am not saying that they do not share in the blame, but Jared played his part too. You act like he was an innocent angel in all of this. Two DUI's and a 4 game suspension. (reduced to 2) but still a high risk investment for $74 million don't ya think.

I do. But I didn't see any offer from The Chiefs. And, if that is the value that some other team placed on him, then obviously, The Chiefs didn't find him as valuable.

My opinion is that, if they wanted to insist that Jared 'behave' for a season, then they needed to reward him with some job security.

But, because he played too well, they didn't want to pay for him. Now they are paying for it in another way.

Jared has more sacks than The Chiefs team does, and four times as many wins.

The Vikings, in half as many games, are on pace to accumulate four more sacks than they had last season, and The Chiefs are on pace to accumulate less than 1/4 as many as last season.

Not to mention that sacks are only the 'glam' stat of DEs, and Jared is excellent in all aspects of playing DE. He led the NFL in Forced Fumbles in '05 and had 10 Pass Deflections in '06 and '07.

By comparison, Dwight Freeney has ten Pass Deflections in his 6 1/2 seasons.

Then, there is the fact that Jared was just a great guy to have on any team. Take a look at any game that he has played. He is always having a good time. I defy anyone to find him not smiling. It is an extreme rarity.

Meanwhile, look at the player that we chose above him, in LJ. Has a smile ever found that face? All he does is sulk, and under-achieve.

The Chiefs booted the stud, and rewarded the pud.

Like I've said before, Jared was the only party that showed any interest in having Jared Allen remain as a Chief.

The Chiefs had four choices. A.) Negotiate for a long-term contract. B.) Ignore his complaints, and force him to play under the Franchise Tag. C.) Let him go, as his contract was up. And D.) Get something for him, by trading him.

Jared had one option. A.) Do what The Chiefs told him to do.

He did.

jmlamerson
11-07-2008, 12:42 PM
He did accept the offer. He said that he would play under the tag, then leave after that contract was up. The only way to refuse that offer would have been to retire from The NFL. He didn't do that.



I do. But I didn't see any offer from The Chiefs. And, if that is the value that some other team placed on him, then obviously, The Chiefs didn't find him as valuable.

My opinion is that, if they wanted to insist that Jared 'behave' for a season, then they needed to reward him with some job security.

But, because he played too well, they didn't want to pay for him. Now they are paying for it in another way.

Jared has more sacks than The Chiefs team does, and four times as many wins.

The Vikings, in half as many games, are on pace to accumulate four more sacks than they had last season, and The Chiefs are on pace to accumulate less than 1/4 as many as last season.

Not to mention that sacks are only the 'glam' stat of DEs, and Jared is excellent in all aspects of playing DE. He led the NFL in Forced Fumbles in '05 and had 10 Pass Deflections in '06 and '07.

By comparison, Dwight Freeney has ten Pass Deflections in his 6 1/2 seasons.

Then, there is the fact that Jared was just a great guy to have on any team. Take a look at any game that he has played. He is always having a good time. I defy anyone to find him not smiling. It is an extreme rarity.

Meanwhile, look at the player that we chose above him, in LJ. Has a smile ever found that face? All he does is sulk, and under-achieve.

The Chiefs booted the stud, and rewarded the pud.

Like I've said before, Jared was the only party that showed any interest in having Jared Allen remain as a Chief.

The Chiefs had four choices. A.) Negotiate for a long-term contract. B.) Ignore his complaints, and force him to play under the Franchise Tag. C.) Let him go, as his contract was up. And D.) Get something for him, by trading him.

Jared had one option. A.) Do what The Chiefs told him to do.

He did.

Yeah, I find it pretty impossible for anyone to defend that trade. Good franchises don't trade cornerstone 26-year-old DEs. You keep your young players at premium positions (JA), and you get rid of older players at more replacable positions (LJ - maybe not old, but with a whole lot of milage).

The Chiefs could have signed JA to the identical deal that the Vikes offered him. Is it a big contract? Sure. And if the Chiefs were up against the cap, I maybe could see their reasoning. But they're $32M under the cap, and they'll be more under the cap next year.

If the Chiefs don't trade JA, they probably trade down and still draft Albert, along with picking up a third (like the Pats did a spot below us, with the Saints) so we can still draft Cottam. We don't have Morgan, who isn't starting for us anyway.

How exactly do we lose? We're still massively under the cap. We still get Albert, Charles, and Cottam.

The only question is whether we think Dorsey + Morgan > JA. They are almost equal in salary ($30M for JA, $23M for Dorsey, guarenteed). And as for talent, well, I don't think history will be kind to the Chiefs for this.

I agree that we have to suck it up and move on, but its boneheaded moves like this that make me contemptuous of the Chiefs "braintrust."

Canada
11-07-2008, 01:51 PM
I am not DEFENDING the trade. I am tired of hearing how it is all managements fault for 6 months. Jared could have sh!t on the field and told all the fans to F@$k off and you guys would find a way to blame it on management. Two posts ago 31 said

Canada: First off he demanded a trade if he did not get the contract that HE wanted.

Chief31: No. You are wrong. After a year of seeking a long-term contract with The Chiefs, without ever getting an offer, he was invited to seek a trade.

Soooo...he did want the contract that HE wanted or not? You guys talk in circles all day and then put words in peoples mouths. He was "invited" to seek a trade. Was that because he said "If you franchise me then I am gonna leave"? He got EXACTLY what he wanted. But now I am gonna have to sit here for years and hear about this crap. Its all management and the players have no accountability to anyone anymore. It is a joke.

And as far as the double the sacks thing. He has 4....4 sacks and happened to be near Orlovsky when he ran out of bounds. And unless you can show me how he has improved the Minnesota run D then that is just your opinion.

Chiefster
11-07-2008, 02:31 PM
I am not DEFENDING the trade. I am tired of hearing how it is all managements fault for 6 months. Jared could have sh!t on the field and told all the fans to F@ off and you guys would find a way to blame it on management. Two posts ago 31 said

Canada: First off he demanded a trade if he did not get the contract that HE wanted.

Chief31: No. You are wrong. After a year of seeking a long-term contract with The Chiefs, without ever getting an offer, he was invited to seek a trade.

Soooo...he did want the contract that HE wanted or not? You guys talk in circles all day and then put words in peoples mouths. He was "invited" to seek a trade. Was that because he said "If you franchise me then I am gonna leave"? He got EXACTLY what he wanted. But now I am gonna have to sit here for years and hear about this crap. Its all management and the players have no accountability to anyone anymore. It is a joke.

And as far as the double the sacks thing. He has 4....4 sacks and happened to be near Orlovsky when he ran out of bounds. And unless you can show me how he has improved the Minnesota run D then that is just your opinion.


I gotta go along with Canada on this one; players have a share of the responsiblity regarding the options governing their future in the league. IMHO.

jmlamerson
11-07-2008, 03:18 PM
Small point, he has seven sacks, not four.

And the MN run defense is 2nd in the league.

Ours is now 32nd.

Chiefster
11-07-2008, 03:26 PM
Small point, he has seven sacks, not four.

And the MN run defense is 2nd in the league.

Ours is now 32nd.

Noted and acknowledged. :sign0098:

Canada
11-07-2008, 05:20 PM
Small point, he has seven sacks, not four.

And the MN run defense is 2nd in the league.

Ours is now 32nd.

I have never denied his ability as a player, and it is only 6 (standing near Orlovsky while he ran out of bounds is not a sack in my book) But that is $10 million a sack. Seems like a high price. And what was the Min run defence ranked last year before JA arrived? 2nd, Maybe they thought getting some good DTs before a good DE was a good way to build a defense?!?!

jmlamerson
11-07-2008, 06:06 PM
I have never denied his ability as a player, and it is only 6 (standing near Orlovsky while he ran out of bounds is not a sack in my book) But that is $10 million a sack. Seems like a high price. And what was the Min run defence ranked last year before JA arrived? 2nd, Maybe they thought getting some good DTs before a good DE was a good way to build a defense?!?!

JA is in the very first year of his contract! He's on pace for 13-14 sacks this year. In a brand new system. The Vikes are getting their money's worth. Right now, it's $5M/sack (even if I accept your argument about the Orlovsky one - and I don't) in guarenteed money. It will be signifcantly less by the time he through with the contract. I'll be willing to wager they get more sacks per dollar from JA than the Chiefs do from their entire current DL.

The Vikings are giving up fewer yards per game this year (69.6) than last year (74.1). KC, by the way, are giving up over 52 extra yards a game on the ground this year (from 130 yards a game to 182 yards a game). The Williamses are a very large part of the Vikings superb run D, but they are doing better with a legitimate DE. Kevin Williams has already doubled his sack total from the entirety of last year as they can't double team him anymore.

I agree that KC needs good DTs. I disagree that you sell your best defensive player for 25 cents on the dollar for the opportunity to draft a DT, when almost every good DT takes 4-5 years to develop.

Here's the thing - it isn't either/or. The Chiefs didn't need to get rid of JA. If they had offered him an identical contract to the MN one, he would have stayed. We had more than enough cap room to keep him. He fit perfectly in our "youth movement" as he was only 26. He's one of the top-3 DEs in the NFL, which isn't a easy position to fill. So why did we trade him?

Look, the Chiefs management screwed up badly with this. It doesn't do any good to cry over spilled milk, but it certainly should be taken account when judging if the current Chiefs leadership can be/should be trusted in rebuilding this team.

Canada
11-07-2008, 06:32 PM
AGAIN I am not defending management. I am not saying JA was not a good player. I do however give Jared his share of the blame in how things worked out but there are some here that will blindly blame management for Jared being gone while not putting ANY of the blame on Jared himself.

jmlamerson
11-07-2008, 06:42 PM
AGAIN I am not defending management. I am not saying JA was not a good player. I do however give Jared his share of the blame in how things worked out but there are some here that will blindly blame management for Jared being gone while not putting ANY of the blame on Jared himself.

I know that. And I know it seems we're going in circles, but I just don't understand why you are putting blame on JA.

The Chiefs could have kept him for the next six years by paying him his market value (same contract as MN).

JA wanted a long term extension or to be traded.

The Chiefs chose to trade him rather than give him the extension.

The only way this is JAs fault is if you blame him for not playing year-to-year under the franchise tag, or for not giving a significant hometown discount. I guess I can't blame players in a sport as violent as the NFL for not agreeing to work year-to-year or for working for less than they are worth.

Canada
11-07-2008, 07:19 PM
I know that. And I know it seems we're going in circles, but I just don't understand why you are putting blame on JA.

The Chiefs could have kept him for the next six years by paying him his market value (same contract as MN).

JA wanted a long term extension or to be traded.

The Chiefs chose to trade him rather than give him the extension.

The only way this is JAs fault is if you blame him for not playing year-to-year under the franchise tag, or for not giving a significant hometown discount. I guess I can't blame players in a sport as violent as the NFL for not agreeing to work year-to-year or for working for less than they are worth.

As much as some may deny it, Jared basically said that he will not play under the franchise tag for $8.8 million. At the time he was a high risk player who was already going to have to serve a four game suspension. He wanted a long term contract and basically said that if he did not get it this year then he is leaving. and then he left. I don't cry over spilled milk. I would love to still have him here. I just get tired of hearing one side of the argument all the time. As far as bit agreeing to work year to year for the price of $8.8 million...I work year to year for a lot less and have just as much if not more risk at my job. I get paid less than I am worth, but I still go to work everyday. I think it is ridiculous to pretend that these guys do not live in the real world and that if they play god football then nothing is ever their fault. What price did JA pay for his DUIs? A small fine? If that is me then I no longer have a job, nevermind complaining about the fact that they will only give me $8.8 million.

jmlamerson
11-07-2008, 10:01 PM
As much as some may deny it, Jared basically said that he will not play under the franchise tag for $8.8 million. At the time he was a high risk player who was already going to have to serve a four game suspension. He wanted a long term contract and basically said that if he did not get it this year then he is leaving. and then he left. I don't cry over spilled milk. I would love to still have him here. I just get tired of hearing one side of the argument all the time. As far as bit agreeing to work year to year for the price of $8.8 million...I work year to year for a lot less and have just as much if not more risk at my job. I get paid less than I am worth, but I still go to work everyday. I think it is ridiculous to pretend that these guys do not live in the real world and that if they play god football then nothing is ever their fault. What price did JA pay for his DUIs? A small fine? If that is me then I no longer have a job, nevermind complaining about the fact that they will only give me $8.8 million.

JA wasn't going to have to serve a four game suspension prior to this contract with the Vikings. He could have started with the Chiefs for Game 1 this year. He served a two game suspension a year ago but that's it. Things weren't irretrievably wrecked until this offseason.

Look, I can sympathize with you as to the $8.8M. But you are putting blame on JA for doing something that every other single player in the NFL does. Its the byproduct of a league where an owner can breach a contract at will. If you or I sign a contract with an employer: (1) we both have to honor it; and (2) we don't run the chance of career-ending injury every day at work.

If JA agreed to play year by year and tore his ACLs in pre-season, the team could release him without paying him anything. That's why NFL players always go for the signing bonuses and why they hate franchise tenders.

Was there risk in signing a guy who could have a third strike? Yeah. But not so much risk that 30 other GMs (I'm not counting ex-GM Millen) wouldn't have done the smart thing and signed him. If he had a third strike, they could have cut him at relatively little cost.

Really, if the Chiefs were butting up against the cap, I could have understood, even if I didn't agree. We weren't going to tie up our cap with this deal. It wouldn't have prevented us from doing anything we did. But we were $32M under. Whatever the risks were, they were far outweighed by the benefits of keeping him.

When listing the top 10 mistakes of the Peteron era, this has to go in the top 5. When listing the top 10 mistakes of the Edwards era, it's number 1.

I guess my question would be, do you think Peterson made a mistake? And would you rather have him or JA with this organization right now?

Chiefster
11-07-2008, 10:14 PM
Management could have done more to keep JA here, and by the same token JA could have done more to stay. They are both at fault. IMO.

What do ya say we burry this dead horse?

Canada
11-08-2008, 01:25 AM
JA wasn't going to have to serve a four game suspension prior to this contract with the Vikings. He could have started with the Chiefs for Game 1 this year. He served a two game suspension a year ago but that's it. Things weren't irretrievably wrecked until this offseason.

Look, I can sympathize with you as to the $8.8M. But you are putting blame on JA for doing something that every other single player in the NFL does. Its the byproduct of a league where an owner can breach a contract at will. If you or I sign a contract with an employer: (1) we both have to honor it; and (2) we don't run the chance of career-ending injury every day at work.

If JA agreed to play year by year and tore his ACLs in pre-season, the team could release him without paying him anything. That's why NFL players always go for the signing bonuses and why they hate franchise tenders.

Was there risk in signing a guy who could have a third strike? Yeah. But not so much risk that 30 other GMs (I'm not counting ex-GM Millen) wouldn't have done the smart thing and signed him. If he had a third strike, they could have cut him at relatively little cost.

Really, if the Chiefs were butting up against the cap, I could have understood, even if I didn't agree. We weren't going to tie up our cap with this deal. It wouldn't have prevented us from doing anything we did. But we were $32M under. Whatever the risks were, they were far outweighed by the benefits of keeping him.

When listing the top 10 mistakes of the Peteron era, this has to go in the top 5. When listing the top 10 mistakes of the Edwards era, it's number 1.

I guess my question would be, do you think Peterson made a mistake? And would you rather have him or JA with this organization right now?

This is honest to god the very last time I am going to say this because I am starting to wear out the keys on my keyboard. I am not defending our Management team. I am not saying that I do not like Jared Allen. I would rather have a can of cream corn than CP but that does not in any way absolve JA from his part in what went down regarding his trade. I guess we would have all been much happier had he stayed under the franchise tag and then left for nothing.

chief31
11-08-2008, 11:04 AM
I am not DEFENDING the trade. I am tired of hearing how it is all managements fault for 6 months. Jared could have sh!t on the field and told all the fans to F@ off and you guys would find a way to blame it on management. Two posts ago 31 said

Canada: First off he demanded a trade if he did not get the contract that HE wanted.

Chief31: No. You are wrong. After a year of seeking a long-term contract with The Chiefs, without ever getting an offer, he was invited to seek a trade.

Soooo...he did want the contract that HE wanted or not? You guys talk in circles all day and then put words in peoples mouths. He was "invited" to seek a trade. Was that because he said "If you franchise me then I am gonna leave"? He got EXACTLY what he wanted. But now I am gonna have to sit here for years and hear about this crap. Its all management and the players have no accountability to anyone anymore. It is a joke.

And as far as the double the sacks thing. He has 4....4 sacks and happened to be near Orlovsky when he ran out of bounds. And unless you can show me how he has improved the Minnesota run D then that is just your opinion.


So, the fact that he had any demands at all is all that you are saying. Yet Gonzales is a stud for wanting to leave the team?

This started (again) because someone else said that Jared didn't want to be here. And I showed that he tried very hard to get The Chiefs to keep him here.

Did he do absolutely everything possible to stay? No.

After he did what was asked, and showed that he could stay out of trouble and play the game, then still never got offered a long-term deal, had he quietly accepted the tag, he would have been taking an enormous risk with his career.

If, by trying to limit that risk, you want to place blame on him, then, sure. He is some kind of traitor who didn't want to be here.

But if you look at it as it is/was, he did want to be here. He asked for a long-term deal for over a year, then got told to go find another team.

That isn't putting words into anyones mouth. It is taking them from their mouths. The Chiefs told him to seek a trade. Period.


I have never denied his ability as a player, and it is only 6 (standing near Orlovsky while he ran out of bounds is not a sack in my book) But that is $10 million a sack. Seems like a high price. And what was the Min run defence ranked last year before JA arrived? 2nd, Maybe they thought getting some good DTs before a good DE was a good way to build a defense?!?!

Why was Orlovsky running? Did it have anything to do with the fact that Jared Allen had immediately shook his blocker, and was chasing him?

No. Not since you say that he was just standing near him. Why the hell are you trying so hard to diminish what he has accomplished?


As much as some may deny it, Jared basically said that he will not play under the franchise tag for $8.8 million.

As much as some may deny it, Jared exactly said... he would play under the tag. Then leave for free agency at the end of that contract.

At the time he was a high risk player who was already going to have to serve a four game suspension.

No. He had already passed that the season before.

He wanted a long term contract and basically said that if he did not get it this year then he is leaving.
and then he left.

No. Then he was sent. Once The Chiefs traded him, he was no longer able to be a Chief.

I don't cry over spilled milk. I would love to still have him here. I just get tired of hearing one side of the argument all the time.

Again, the one side of the argument, that you are tired of hearing, is in response to someone else spewing out BS about how Jared didn't want to be here.

I know that he did. And I respond to that mis-information.

As far as bit agreeing to work year to year for the price of $8.8 million...I work year to year for a lot less and have just as much if not more risk at my job.

I'm not going to belittle your profession. It is an extremely admirable one. But how many times a day do you have 300 lbs of pissed off trying to kick your ***?

I am sure that that happens sometimes. But probably not dozens of times every day of work.

I know what risks you speak of. Or at least some of those risks. With blood being involved. But those risks have been severely limited with safety procedures and the like.

The likelihood of sustaining a career ending injury in your profession is far less than it is in The NFL.

I get paid less than I am worth, but I still go to work everyday. I think it is ridiculous to pretend that these guys do not live in the real world and that if they play god football then nothing is ever their fault. What price did JA pay for his DUIs? A small fine? If that is me then I no longer have a job, nevermind complaining about the fact that they will only give me $8.8 million.


Jared had to go through the same stupid addiction classes, pay the same fines, go through the same license suspensions as anyone else. And your job consists of driving, does it not?

But if you hate Jared for getting paid so much better than you, then what the hell makes you an NFL fan?

You are a part of the reason that these guys get over-paid. You buy the stuff. And why is Jared the only one who you seem to complain about on this?

I am thrilled hat the players that I pay to see are getting that money. I don't pay to see Carl Peterson, nor Clark Hunt. I pay to see Tony Gonzales, and Brandon Albert. So I am glad that they are getting some of the money, that would otherwise be going to Carl and Clark.

If thousands of people were willing to pay to see you, or I, do our jobs, then we would be getting big money. But they don't.

So who are you really upset with about that? You? You are the one paying to see someone else do their job.

Or everyone who isn't paying to see you do your job?

No. You are mad at the guys who you are paying to see.


This is honest to god the very last time I am going to say this because I am starting to wear out the keys on my keyboard. I am not defending our Management team. I am not saying that I do not like Jared Allen. I would rather have a can of cream corn than CP but that does not in any way absolve JA from his part in what went down regarding his trade. I guess we would have all been much happier had he stayed under the franchise tag and then left for nothing.

"His part" was to try and convince your favorite football team to give him some job security. 8.8 Million aside. If you have a gold mine of a career, and someone is offering to take it from you at the end of the year, wouldn't you think about trying to get more time? Especially if you knew that someone else was willing to give you that?

Jared Allen wanted to be a Chief, and the Chiefs didn't want him to be.

It always comes back to that.

If you don't want to have the discussion anymore, then don't involve yourself in others' discussions about it.

I started here...
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showpost.php?p=105301&postcount=98

And you responded here...
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showpost.php?p=105318&postcount=99

If you didn't intervene there, then, maybe, Bike and I would have had this discussion. And you could have chosen to not be a part of it.

Canada
11-08-2008, 11:16 AM
Wow, you win . Jared is compeltely blameless. You have made me out to hate Jared even after stating several times that I liked him and I would be more than happy to have him on the team, I was just pointing out that he played his part in what happened. You think that saying, I will play under the franchie tag then leave is not saying something? I agree with all the stuff you guys post about him, i just don't think he was completely blameless. You are great with the stats and arguments, but you really need to work on listening.

I do not hate Jared.
I am not defnding managements decision.
I was merely stating that Jared played his part and if you think he sat and said "Please Sir, may I play for the Chiefs" and did nothing else, then u aren't as smart as I thought you were.
I'm not making him out to ba vilain. You are so great at quoting posts and thread, find that post. But to say he was completely blameless is just plain ignorant.

BTW, I am not complaining that he makes more than me, I was stating that we all take risks, Being compensated 8.8 million for it hardly makes me muster up a lot of sympathy for how unfairly you are being treated.

Canada
11-08-2008, 11:20 AM
oh...and Orlovsky was NOT running away from Jared, he was on a bootleg and did not even realize he was out of bounds. Jared did not chase him out.

YouTube - Dan Orlovsky Safety "Dumbest QB Ever!!" Lions vs. Vikings

chief31
11-08-2008, 11:26 AM
Wow, you win . Jared is compeltely blameless. You have made me out to hate Jared even after stating several times that I liked him and I would be more than happy to have him on the team, I was just pointing out that he played his part in what happened. You think that saying, I will play under the franchie tag then leave is not saying something? I agree with all the stuff you guys post about him, i just don't think he was completely blameless. You are great with the stats and arguments, but you really need to work on listening.

I do not hate Jared.
I am not defnding managements decision.
I was merely stating that Jared played his part and if you think he sat and said "Please Sir, may I play for the Chiefs" and did nothing else, then u aren't as smart as I thought you were.
I'm not making him out to ba vilain. You are so great at quoting posts and thread, find that post. But to say he was completely blameless is just plain ignorant.

BTW, I am not complaining that he makes more than me, I was stating that we all take risks, Being compensated 8.8 million for it hardly makes me muster up a lot of sympathy for how unfairly you are being treated.

I make him out to seem blameless, because I don't blame him for trying to get The Chiefs to make a long-term offer.

And, as far as listening, while you have said, recently, that you don't dislike him, you do still lay some blame on him, while I don't. And you have been very negative towards him, over the past several months.

So, I do listen. And I save some of the things that i hear for later use.

I am, however, too lazy to go find some of the things that you have said about him in the past. (Right no. But don't test me. :D)

You know that I like you. I think you are a great guy, and I regret missing the home-opener terribly, because I missed my chance to hang-out with an over-grown Canadian sasquatch.

I am just trying to get you away from the dark that had consumed you on this topic.:lol:

chief31
11-08-2008, 11:26 AM
It is a form of an exorcism.

Canada
11-08-2008, 11:30 AM
I make him out to seem blameless, because I don't blame him for trying to get The Chiefs to make a long-term offer.

And, as far as listening, while you have said, recently, that you don't dislike him, you do still lay some blame on him, while I don't. And you have been very negative towards him, over the past several months.

So, I do listen. And I save some of the things that i hear for later use.

I am, however, too lazy to go find some of the things that you have said about him in the past. (Right no. But don't test me. :D)

You know that I like you. I think you are a great guy, and I regret missing the home-opener terribly, because I missed my chance to hang-out with an over-grown Canadian sasquatch.

I am just trying to get you away from the dark that had consumed you on this topic.:lol:

:lol: I just pick the other side of the coin is all. And for a Canadian, I am not overgrown. I am just an average little guy up here!! :bananen_smilies046:

Canada
11-08-2008, 11:31 AM
It is a form of an exorcism.

I get enough exorcise when I am at work!! :D

chief31
11-08-2008, 11:35 AM
:lol: I just pick the other side of the coin is all. And for a Canadian, I am not overgrown. I am just an average little guy up here!! :bananen_smilies046:

I usually do that myself. You had better not be after my position as The Official Chiefscrowd arguer!

I will defend my post!:armee_smilies108:

Canada
11-08-2008, 11:37 AM
I usually do that myself. You had better not be after my position as The Official Chiefscrowd arguer!

I will defend my post!:armee_smilies108:

Don't make me call in the Canadian army :pokey:

chief31
11-08-2008, 11:41 AM
Don't make me call in the Canadian army :pokey:

Don't hand me that s**! You are the Canadian army!

:character00295:

Canada
11-08-2008, 11:53 AM
Don't hand me that s**! You are the Canadian army!

:character00295:

now way man, I hang out with some guys who are waaaaaay crazier than I will ever be!! :comeandgetsome::shottie::shootingsoldier::francis ::sterb184::character00110::character0028:

chief31
11-08-2008, 11:55 AM
now way man, I hang out with some guys who are waaaaaay crazier than I will ever be!! :comeandgetsome::shottie::shootingsoldier::francis ::sterb184::character00110::character0028:

You aren't allowed to have guns. I am.:D

Canada
11-08-2008, 12:00 PM
You aren't allowed to have guns. I am.:D

There are a lot of things that I am not "allowed" to do, but it does not stop mefrom doing them anyways. Besides, did u see the Superman smilie? Like your puny Americn weapons can hurt the likes of several drunken Canadians armed with 28 packs of Budweiser and a shield of smoke around them!! :drunkhb: :SmokinBanana: :beer:

chief31
11-08-2008, 12:03 PM
There are a lot of things that I am not "allowed" to do, but it does not stop mefrom doing them anyways. Besides, did u see the Superman smilie? Like your puny Americn weapons can hurt the likes of several drunken Canadians armed with 28 packs of Budweiser and a shield of smoke around them!! :drunkhb: :SmokinBanana: :beer:

I have the Kryptonite. It's better known as American bar sluts.:lol:

Canada
11-08-2008, 12:07 PM
I have the Kryptonite. It's better known as American bar sluts.:lol:

Well, if I gotta lose, that seems like the way to go!! :D