big test 4 thigpen today

[slc chief]

i wish he did not have to face this tampa d today after last weeks performance but it will definantly be a big test for him and i guess we will see a little more where we stand with him this should be an interesting game

[jtandcrew]

I agree, good luck to thigpen today! I hope he shows us want we have been missing all season with Croyle and Huard.:bananen_smilies046:

[windwalker]

Ok... I think this is a good thread for everyone to evaluate Tyler Thigpen on his progress (or lack of it)

Last week many posters said "yeah good game, but it was only one.. might have been a fluke... etc. Some posters were acting like he might become THE future of the Chiefs..

After watching the game, and like some of you do, watching the taped version again and again, I would like to hear what all of you are thinking now?

[Darth CarlSatan]

I haven't "seen" anything yet as I am out of state, but the overall impression I get from the posts is that he played another consistent game.

[Three7s]

I haven't "seen" anything yet as I am out of state, but the overall impression I get from the posts is that he played another consistent game.
Indeed, he wasn't as good as last week, but he was, certainly, good enough for most games. There were some drops on him, as well.

[slc chief]

Ok... I think this is a good thread for everyone to evaluate Tyler Thigpen on his progress (or lack of it)

Last week many posters said "yeah good game, but it was only one.. might have been a fluke... etc. Some posters were acting like he might become THE future of the Chiefs..

After watching the game, and like some of you do, watching the taped version again and again, I would like to hear what all of you are thinking now?

i think tyler played a solid game i was very impressed when he threw the ball away to avoid sacks. and when he faked his injury to buy some time good thinking. he did have a few questionable passes though were the interceptions were broken up by the wide recievers. but that can be expected. no picks no fumbles is he the franchise qb not quite yet but he did make some smart desicions today. his confidence is up hopefully he can keep it up and we can save our first round pick for another positon

[NKChiefs]

his confidence is up hopefully he can keep it up and we can save our first round pick for another positon

I totally agree on this one :sign0098: Thigpin.
I dont know either if he can keep up the good work, but right now i choose to be positive and just enjoy the games. Its long time since i have bin so in to the games 2 weeks in a row, and i really think that we are going to see more from Thigpin.


/NKChiefs

[Bike]

I totally agree on this one :sign0098: Thigpin.
I dont know either if he can keep up the good work, but right now i choose to be positive and just enjoy the games. Its long time since i have bin so in to the games 2 weeks in a row, and i really think that we are going to see more from Thigpin.


/NKChiefs
No doubt. I just hope he can stay healthy. SLIDE PLEASE!!:drunkhb:

[jmlamerson]

i think tyler played a solid game i was very impressed when he threw the ball away to avoid sacks. and when he faked his injury to buy some time good thinking. he did have a few questionable passes though were the interceptions were broken up by the wide recievers. but that can be expected. no picks no fumbles is he the franchise qb not quite yet but he did make some smart desicions today. his confidence is up hopefully he can keep it up and we can save our first round pick for another positon

Please, no! Look, Thigpen is vastly overachieving and is stringing together good efforts in close losses. But he isn't a franchise QB. We're not winning a SB (or maybe even a playoff game) with him. He doesn't have the accuracy, the vision, or the football sense.

I'm more than happy to see him start next year while we groom a franchise QB. I'm more than happy for him to be our backup in case of injury. I'm proud of him that this 7th round pick from Coastal Carolina can go toe-to-toe with a great defense like the Bucs.

But we can't pretend he's a long-term answer. If we do, we're just wasting more years without really rebuilding this team.

[Bike]

Please, no! Look, Thigpen is vastly overachieving and is stringing together good efforts in close losses. But he isn't a franchise QB. We're not winning a SB (or maybe even a playoff game) with him. He doesn't have the accuracy, the vision, or the football sense.


And you know this how???

[jmlamerson]

And you know this how???

He has a 51% competion rate, and a 67.6 QB rating on the season. Both of those are up over the past two weeks, but both the Jets and Bucs helped him out with a bunch with turnovers and good starting position.

He went to a small school for college, and small school college QBs very, very rarely work out.

In both of the last two games, he has looked lost when not in a spread formation.

He tires out over a game. He hasn't thrown a TD in the second half of any game he started this year.

Look, I'm not running him down. He's a good backup. But he isn't a guy who will take the Chiefs to the next level. If we pretend he's our QB of the future and try to build the offense around him, we'll just be delaying the inevitable.

[Bike]

He has a 51% competion rate, and a 67.6 QB rating on the season. Both of those are up over the past two weeks, but both the Jets and Bucs helped him out with a bunch with turnovers and good starting position.

He went to a small school for college, and small school college QBs very, very rarely work out.

In both of the last two games, he has looked lost when not in a spread formation.

He tires out over a game. He hasn't thrown a TD in the second half of any game he started this year.

Look, I'm not running him down. He's a good backup. But he isn't a guy who will take the Chiefs to the next level. If we pretend he's our QB of the future and try to build the offense around him, we'll just be delaying the inevitable.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I see Thig improving every game he plays - despite Herm. Thig is showing good instincts for a 1st year quarterback and is showing leadership on the field by learning to check off, throw out of bounds, and taking off and running. Do I dare mention he CAUGHT a td? He is developing cohesiveness with his teammates and is gaining respect from opposing defenses. I most definetely believe Thig has the tools to take this team to the next step.
I think Kurt Warner went to, ah, Northern Iowa, and won a superbowl. Where Thig played in college has no bearing on winning in the nfl. Either a guy has it or he don't. I think Thig has it. But as with everything, time will tell...

[jmlamerson]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I see Thig improving every game he plays - despite Herm. Thig is showing good instincts for a 1st year quarterback and is showing leadership on the field by learning to check off, throw out of bounds, and taking off and running. Do I dare mention he CAUGHT a td? He is developing cohesiveness with his teammates and is gaining respect from opposing defenses. I most definetely believe Thig has the tools to take this team to the next step.
I think Kurt Warner went to, ah, Northern Iowa, and won a superbowl. Where Thig played in college has no bearing on winning in the nfl. Either a guy has it or he don't. I think Thig has it. But as with everything, time will tell...

Very true, that time will tell. And I could be, and would prefer to be, wrong.

A few points, though:

1. Thigpen is in his second year, although it is his first year starting.

2. Small school QBs tend to do very poorly in the NFL, as the QBs are usually unaccustomed to NFL quality play and NFL schemes. Warner and Romo are obvious exceptions, but both became good QBs much later age-wise than the average NFL QB.

3. Thigpen, like Seneca Wallace, is a very good QB to have on a team, not just as a backup, but as a gadget play guy. But I don't see either of them as a long-term NFL starter at QB.

4. Thigpen is doing well to start games, but falters during the second half.

5. If Thigpen wins a game (or even stays as competitive as he was against the Jets and Bucs) this season in which the Chiefs don't have a big turnover advantage, I reserve the right to change my opinion.

Look, Thigpen did enough in the past two games for us to win, if not for bad coaching and tired defenses. That makes his performance more impressive than any other QB on the Chiefs roster since Huard's performance in 2006. But that doesn't make him a franchise QB.

[Bike]

Very true, that time will tell. And I could be, and would prefer to be, wrong.

A few points, though:

1. Thigpen is in his second year, although it is his first year starting.

2. Small school QBs tend to do very poorly in the NFL, as the QBs are usually unaccustomed to NFL quality play and NFL schemes. Warner and Romo are obvious exceptions, but both became good QBs much later age-wise than the average NFL QB.

3. Thigpen, like Seneca Wallace, is a very good QB to have on a team, not just as a backup, but as a gadget play guy. But I don't see either of them as a long-term NFL starter at QB.

4. Thigpen is doing well to start games, but falters during the second half.

5. If Thigpen wins a game (or even stays as competitive as he was against the Jets and Bucs) this season in which the Chiefs don't have a big turnover advantage, I reserve the right to change my opinion.

Look, Thigpen did enough in the past two games for us to win, if not for bad coaching and tired defenses. That makes his performance more impressive than any other QB on the Chiefs roster since Huard's performance in 2006. But that doesn't make him a franchise QB.
What does make a franchise qb?? You could make this arguement on any qb entering the league...

[jmlamerson]

What does make a franchise qb?? You could make this arguement on any qb entering the league...

Well, I would want someone with the physical and mental tools that come from playing in a big school atmosphere with a NFL style offense and formidable opponents. I would want someone who knows how to finish games, has good accuracy and a big arm, and who has shown he can win a game on his arm.

I know, the pro landscape is littered with such QBs drafted in the first round. That it's pretty hit or miss. But that is the template for almost every successful NFL QB.

As I said, Thigpen could change my mind. But I think we're acting like thirsty people in a desert. Thigpen is a glass of water. That doesn't mean he'll get us out of the desert.

[Bike]

Well, I would want someone with the physical and mental tools that come from playing in a big school atmosphere with a NFL style offense and formidable opponents. I would want someone who knows how to finish games, has good accuracy and a big arm, and who has shown he can win a game on his arm.

I know, the pro landscape is littered with such QBs drafted in the first round. That it's pretty hit or miss. But that is the template for almost every successful NFL QB.

As I said, Thigpen could change my mind. But I think we're acting like thirsty people in a desert. Thigpen is a glass of water. That doesn't mean he'll get us out of the desert.
I agree on a good arm of course. We shall see how he develops as the season goes on. A win at San Diego would be a good start.
I do like Stafford. But the way Thig has been playing lately has changed my mind somewhat about going after him. Use the pick for ol, dl lb, whatever. I'll have to wait for seasons end to form an opinion on that. But I'm hoping Thig pans out like I think he will..

[yashi]

umm... Thigpen just put up way better numbers against the Bucs than Matt Ryan did, who meets all of your criteria for a franchise QB, lamerson. Granted that was Ryan's 2nd game and Thigpen is a year older, but still.

He also did better than the following QBs did against TB: Aaron Rodgers, Jake Delhomme, Kyle Orton (having a great year otherwise). Similar stats to what Cutler did against them also.

Now I wasn't willing to give him TOO much credit after the Jets game, and said that if he played well against the Bucs it's another story. The guy was starting his 3rd career game, and put up 164 / 1 / 0 against one of the best defenses in the league. I saw a lot of mistakes, but I saw just as many flashes of brilliance. The play where he looked off the safety left and then quickly threw the bomb to Bradley on the right side was Tom Brady esque.

Not calling him Tom Brady yet by any means, but this is definitely not another scrub from a II-A school who lit up bad competition.

[Bike]

umm... Thigpen just put up way better numbers against the Bucs than Matt Ryan did, who meets all of your criteria for a franchise QB, lamerson. Granted that was Ryan's 2nd game and Thigpen is a year older, but still.

He also did better than the following QBs did against TB: Aaron Rodgers, Jake Delhomme, Kyle Orton (having a great year otherwise). Similar stats to what Cutler did against them also.

Now I wasn't willing to give him TOO much credit after the Jets game, and said that if he played well against the Bucs it's another story. The guy was starting his 3rd career game, and put up 164 / 1 / 0 against one of the best defenses in the league. I saw a lot of mistakes, but I saw just as many flashes of brilliance. The play where he looked off the safety left and then quickly threw the bomb to Bradley on the right side was Tom Brady esque.

Not calling him Tom Brady yet by any means, but this is definitely not another scrub from a II-A school who lit up bad competition.
Seems right.:bananen_smilies046:

[NKChiefs]

umm... Thigpen just put up way better numbers against the Bucs than Matt Ryan did, who meets all of your criteria for a franchise QB, lamerson. Granted that was Ryan's 2nd game and Thigpen is a year older, but still.

He also did better than the following QBs did against TB: Aaron Rodgers, Jake Delhomme, Kyle Orton (having a great year otherwise). Similar stats to what Cutler did against them also.

Now I wasn't willing to give him TOO much credit after the Jets game, and said that if he played well against the Bucs it's another story. The guy was starting his 3rd career game, and put up 164 / 1 / 0 against one of the best defenses in the league. I saw a lot of mistakes, but I saw just as many flashes of brilliance. The play where he looked off the safety left and then quickly threw the bomb to Bradley on the right side was Tom Brady esque.

Not calling him Tom Brady yet by any means, but this is definitely not another scrub from a II-A school who lit up bad competition.


:bananen_smilies046: agree. I really see him showing good signs too. And to be honest i hope that he can prove him self over the next couple of games, so we (fans, media) can start focusing other places than the QB all the time. You know, give hime peace to do what he needs to do :D

Go' Chiefs

/NKChiefs

[Darth CarlSatan]

:bananen_smilies046: agree. I really see him showing good signs too. And to be honest i hope that he can prove him self over the next couple of games, so we (fans, media) can start focusing other places than the QB all the time. You know, give hime peace to do what he needs to do :D

Go' Chiefs

/NKChiefs

Kid sure has grabbed his window by the throat!

[windwalker]

From the Chiefs Game notes:

"More on Thigpen: QB Tyler Thigpen completed a 56-yard pass to WR Mark Bradley, the longest completion of his career. Thigpen has attempted 83 consecutive passes without an interception. In his last two starts, he has completed 39 of 61 passes (63.9%) of his passes for 444 yards with three TDs and no INTs, numbers that equate to a 102.0 rating."

[jmlamerson]

From the Chiefs Game notes:

"More on Thigpen: QB Tyler Thigpen completed a 56-yard pass to WR Mark Bradley, the longest completion of his career. Thigpen has attempted 83 consecutive passes without an interception. In his last two starts, he has completed 39 of 61 passes (63.9%) of his passes for 444 yards with three TDs and no INTs, numbers that equate to a 102.0 rating."

Look, all I'm saying is this: don't get too attached to Thigpen or build him up too much in your mind. This kid's 0-3 as a starter with a 67.6 passer rating on the season. He may be coming into his own, but he's still an unknown quantity at this point.

I want to see Thigpen have a TD drive in the second half. Frankly, I want him to win a game, or even remain competitive in one, where the other team doesn't turn it over four times. If he does, then I'll start to have hope.

[Darth CarlSatan]

Look, all I'm saying is this: don't get too attached to Thigpen or build him up too much in your mind. This kid's 0-3 as a starter with a 67.6 passer rating on the season. He may be coming into his own, but he's still an unknown quantity at this point.

I want to see Thigpen have a TD drive in the second half. Frankly, I want him to win a game, or even remain competitive in one, where the other team doesn't turn it over four times. If he does, then I'll start to have hope.

Dude; you can't tag that loss on Thigpen. He's only one part of the machine.
That said, he plays better in the face of adversity that anyone I've seen in a Chiefs jersey in a LLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG TIME.


And by the by, Chan Gailey has stepped up to take the blame on the bad play calling at the end of the last two games.
Herm may have final say, but CHAN IS CALLING THE SHOTS.

[Canada]

Look, all I'm saying is this: don't get too attached to Thigpen or build him up too much in your mind. This kid's 0-3 as a starter with a 67.6 passer rating on the season. He may be coming into his own, but he's still an unknown quantity at this point.

I want to see Thigpen have a TD drive in the second half. Frankly, I want him to win a game, or even remain competitive in one, where the other team doesn't turn it over four times. If he does, then I'll start to have hope.

I hope down the road that he can be a good #2 for us. An improved Todd Collins. :D

[okikcfan]

Look, all I'm saying is this: don't get too attached to Thigpen or build him up too much in your mind. This kid's 0-3 as a starter with a 67.6 passer rating on the season. He may be coming into his own, but he's still an unknown quantity at this point.

I want to see Thigpen have a TD drive in the second half. Frankly, I want him to win a game, or even remain competitive in one, where the other team doesn't turn it over four times. If he does, then I'll start to have hope.


Thigpen is the best we have right now, he has done good, our Big D is what helped kill our hopes this weekend. Some one is not letting Gun run his D the way he wants, They need to back off and let him do what he does best. I've been a Chiefs fan foe alot of years and this is not Guns Defense

[jmlamerson]

I hope down the road that he can be a good #2 for us. An improved Todd Collins. :D

Thigpen would be an ideal number 2. We could use him like the Seahawks use Seneca Wallace, as a backup and gadget play guy. He's popular with the fans, and could spend next season starting for us while we prep someone. I now like him better than anyone in the very thin FA QB for next season (between Thigpen and Losman, I'll take Thigpen).

But it's a bit naive to say that we can now focus on other parts of the team than QB because Tyler Thigpen barely lost the last two games.

And who knows, he could win five out of the next eight and be the next Tom Brady. I could be massively underrating him. If Thigpen wins three of the next eight games, I'm willing to drink the Kool-aid.

[jmlamerson]

Thigpen is the best we have right now, he has done good, our Big D is what helped kill our hopes this weekend. Some one is not letting Gun run his D the way he wants, They need to back off and let him do what he does best. I've been a Chiefs fan foe alot of years and this is not Guns Defense

Thigpen has yet to throw a TD in the 2nd half of any game (except one in garbage time against the Raiders, and he didn't start that game). He's starting hot and cooling off as the game goes on.

Yeah, the defense couldn't hold the big lead of the 1st half, but the Chiefs couldn't add to their big lead.

I agree with you that the Cover 2 has to go. We have almost no players suited for it. Our front four can't get pressure and without pressure, you can't effectively run the cover 2.

[Canada]

Thigpen would be an ideal number 2. We could use him like the Seahawks use Seneca Wallace, as a backup and gadget play guy. He's popular with the fans, and could spend next season starting for us while we prep someone. I now like him better than anyone in the very thin FA QB for next season (between Thigpen and Losman, I'll take Thigpen).

But it's a bit naive to say that we can now focus on other parts of the team than QB because Tyler Thigpen barely lost the last two games.

And who knows, he could win five out of the next eight and be the next Tom Brady. I could be massively underrating him. If Thigpen wins three of the next eight games, I'm willing to drink the Kool-aid.

I just hope our O line can protect him enough for those 8 games. He looks like a tough kid though. Grab a QB in the draft and have them compete for the job in 2010. :bananen_smilies046:

[jmlamerson]

I just hope our O line can protect him enough for those 8 games. He looks like a tough kid though. Grab a QB in the draft and have them compete for the job in 2010. :bananen_smilies046:
I agree. At the very worst, we end up with two NFL starting QBs on the roster in 2010. That wouldn't be a terrible thing.

In the draft this year (assuming no major FA or retirement), I hope we go QB, RT, RG, C, RB, DE, DE. We have decent to great WRs and TEs. We need a big RB to replace LJ and maybe Kolby. And we need to revamp the o-line.

If we do this, if Gailey keeps running an aggressive offense, and if Bowe, Albert, and Bradley keep showing improvement, we may actually have a top-15 offense next year.

[slc chief]

I agree. At the very worst, we end up with two NFL starting QBs on the roster in 2010. That wouldn't be a terrible thing.

In the draft this year (assuming no major FA or retirement), I hope we go QB, RT, RG, C, RB, DE, DE. We have decent to great WRs and TEs. We need a big RB to replace LJ and maybe Kolby. And we need to revamp the o-line.

If we do this, if Gailey keeps running an aggressive offense, and if Bowe, Albert, and Bradley keep showing improvement, we may actually have a top-15 offense next year.

are you leaving out a lb i think that is also a need for our team

[Sn@keIze]

Look, all I'm saying is this: don't get too attached to Thigpen or build him up too much in your mind. This kid's 0-3 as a starter with a 67.6 passer rating on the season. He may be coming into his own, but he's still an unknown quantity at this point.

I want to see Thigpen have a TD drive in the second half. Frankly, I want him to win a game, or even remain competitive in one, where the other team doesn't turn it over four times. If he does, then I'll start to have hope.
Thigpen had a passer rating of 110 in teh Jets game and 89 in the Bucs game! 5th ranked D.

[Darth CarlSatan]

are you leaving out a lb i think that is also a need for our team

One????

I've got a LAUNDRY LIST of defense needs, because some people( and by some I mean 5: PT, DJ, DE, JP, and BP )need to hit the road, IF they are no better at working the classic 'Gun-Blitz D' of days gone by than they are at the current defensive atrocity.
If we go back to CHIEFS DEFENSE next year, we'll get to find out for sure.

[jmlamerson]

are you leaving out a lb i think that is also a need for our team

We do need LBs pretty badly, but we can take care of that in FA easier than OL or DL. Bart Scott and Jonathan Vilma would be perfect, and neither would break the bank.

Really, except for TE, CB, and maybe WR, we need someone at every position.

There's a surprising number of great players under 30-years-old in FA. Hopefully, we have the guts to go after a few of them.

[jmlamerson]

One????

I've got a LAUNDRY LIST of defense needs, because some people( and by some I mean 5: PT, DJ, DE, JP, and BP )need to hit the road, IF they are no better at working the classic 'Gun-Blitz D' of days gone by than they are at the current defensive atrocity.
If we go back to CHIEFS DEFENSE next year, we'll get to find out for sure.

IMHO, we could clear out the entire defense except for Carr and Flowers, and we'd be better for it (I'll accept a wait and see attitude for Dorsey as well).

Really, we need to build this unit through FA. We can bring the offense along through the draft. But we need an entirely new trasfusion of talent on the defensive side of the ball.

We also need to decide whether the Cover 2 is our defense of the future.

[Darth CarlSatan]

IMHO, we could clear out the entire defense except for Carr and Flowers, and we'd be better for it (I'll accept a wait and see attitude for Dorsey as well).

Really, we need to build this unit through FA. We can bring the offense along through the draft. But we need an entirely new trasfusion of talent on the defensive side of the ball.

We also need to decide whether the Cover 2 is our defense of the future.
:sign0098:

I'm with you on Carr and Flowers.

Let's not judge Glenn just yet; let's get him some help on that line. And to THAT end, we need to mix up the Draft/FA process.
Let's go half and half, so we can have at least one OLB, Safety, Guard, and End for in-house development.
We need at least half of the unit to be long-term and LOYAL Chiefs.
If we use that process and stick to it, we can always have a workable defense.

As for the C-2; the sooner that piece of sh*t is gone, the sooner we get back to playing World-Famous Chiefs Defense!

[jmlamerson]

:sign0098:

I'm with you on Carr and Flowers.

Let's not judge Glenn just yet; let's get him some help on that line. And to THAT end, we need to mix up the Draft/FA process.
Let's go half and half, so we can have at least one OLB, Safety, Guard, and End for in-house development.
We need at least half of the unit to be long-term and LOYAL Chiefs.
If we use that process and stick to it, we can always have a workable defense.

As for the C-2; the sooner that piece of sh*t is gone, the sooner we get back to playing World-Famous Chiefs Defense!

To my way of thinking, the Chiefs have the following needs in this postseason:

QB - I'll only take arguments for Thigpen after the next eight weeks
RB - LJ will be gone, Kolby's coming off ACL surgery, and Charles is not an every down back
LG - Only if Waters retires
C - Niswanger isn't the worst member of our line, but we could use the upgrade
RG - I can't see anyone arguing
RT - Ditto
LDE - Hali isn't going to work
RDE - I can't see anyone arguing
2DT - I can't see anyone arguing
ROLB - I can deal with one more season of DJ and Pat Thomas on the off chance they'll improve with a real line, but we need a ROLB now
FS - Page is hopeless
SS - Pollard just is too slow

That's twelve starters. Assuming we can find six in the draft (and that's a BIG "if"), we still have massive holes.

Instead, let's use our picks on the offense, and sign Haynesworth, Peppers, Suggs, Bart Scott, Jonathan Vilma, Nnamdi Asomugha (move Carr to slot), Mike Brown, and Dawan Landry to long term deals. Each is a UFA, and we could get them all under the cap.

We could run the Prevent every down and win with that defense.

[Darth CarlSatan]

To my way of thinking, the Chiefs have the following needs in this postseason:

QB - I'll only take arguments for Thigpen after the next eight weeks
RB - LJ will be gone, Kolby's coming off ACL surgery, and Charles is not an every down back
LG - Only if Waters retires
C - Niswanger isn't the worst member of our line, but we could use the upgrade
RG - I can't see anyone arguing
RT - Ditto
LDE - Hali isn't going to work
RDE - I can't see anyone arguing
2DT - I can't see anyone arguing
ROLB - I can deal with one more season of DJ and Pat Thomas on the off chance they'll improve with a real line, but we need a ROLB now
FS - Page is hopeless
SS - Pollard just is too slow

That's twelve starters. Assuming we can find six in the draft (and that's a BIG "if"), we still have massive holes.

Instead, let's use our picks on the offense, and sign Haynesworth, Peppers, Suggs, Bart Scott, Jonathan Vilma, Nnamdi Asomugha (move Carr to slot), Mike Brown, and Dawan Landry to long term deals. Each is a UFA, and we could get them all under the cap.

We could run the Prevent every down and win with that defense.

What's your take on Williams/Morgan? I felt like they elevated DJ's game a notch or two.

Pat Thomas and DJ( so far )haven't shown an ability to be effective coming from the outside on the few times we've tried it.
Is it too much of a gamble to hang on to them, and give them another shot at a new scheme, or should we jump asap and give the new guys a season to work it and get ready for 2010?

[Sn@keIze]

I cant believe nobody is saying anyting about Mcbride. Im starting to love this guy. Hes by far our most valuable DL.

I think Page and Pollard are fine too. Theyll get better. They just really suck at run D like the rest of the team. Taking bad angles.

[yashi]

I cant believe nobody is saying anyting about Mcbride. Im starting to love this guy. Hes by far our most valuable DL.

I think Page and Pollard are fine too. Theyll get better. They just really suck at run D like the rest of the team. Taking bad angles.

McBride had a stupid roughing the passer penalty last week on a 3rd down incompletion that cost us the game... aside from that he was good.

I actually like Pollard and Page. They're still young, players don't become HoF'ers overnight. Honestly, I like most of the players on the defense... I think time and coaching is what they need most, not new personnel.

[Sn@keIze]

McBride had a stupid roughing the passer penalty last week on a 3rd down incompletion that cost us the game... aside from that he was good.

Yes but it didnt cost a the game. A multitude of things cost us the game. The Charles fumble, the offensive pass interference on TG that should have never been, the kick return that at least McGraw should have gotten and many more.

McBride has intensity that I like to see, it just happen to back fire on him there.

[jmlamerson]

McBride had a stupid roughing the passer penalty last week on a 3rd down incompletion that cost us the game... aside from that he was good.

I actually like Pollard and Page. They're still young, players don't become HoF'ers overnight. Honestly, I like most of the players on the defense... I think time and coaching is what they need most, not new personnel.

Here's an easy way to tell. Page is a free agent after this season. Do you think any other team will offer him a starting spot and decent salary? Or do you think, if the Chiefs don't resign him, that he'll at best just be a 2nd stringer somewhere?

Same with McBride, Pollard, Tank, P. Thomas, Boone, D. Williams, Hali, and D. Edwards when their contracts are up. DJ may have a chance, but he isn't playing anywhere near his athletic abilities because of mental lapses. Carr, Flowers, and (in others', not my, eyes) Dorsey are all promising rookies, but they need legitimate veteran help.

Really, are you all watching a different defense than I am? Our defense has been completely awful this season. We rank near the bottom of every statistical category (except turnovers). And we're getting worse, not better, every week as minor injuries and fatigue are beginning to take hold.

We rank *last* (I can't emphasize it enough) in the league in rush defense. 31st in total defense. 29th in points. 22nd in pass defense. This will get worse before it gets better.

An excuse in the first six weeks could have been our lousy offense. But even when our offense is doing well (like the last two weeks) our defense gets torched.

We need:

1. To decide whether we want a Cover 2, or a Gunther defense. This mix-and-match isnt helping anyone. I say to jettison the Cover 2, as we don't have the personnel or coaching for it.

2. Get some legitimate talent on our DL and LB corps. We have project players and career backups. DTs and DEs take time to develop. We develop them, and then they leave to do well elsewhere (JA, Sims, etc.). Why don't we get on the good side of the learning curve for once?

3. Sign a top flight CB and move Carr to the slot.

Our offense is improbably overachieving. Really, with this personnel, we shouldn't be scoring 20+ a game. With some o-line additions, it may actually turn out respectable.

Our defense (supposedly Herm's strength) is in tatters. It needs to be flushed out.

[jmlamerson]

What's your take on Williams/Morgan? I felt like they elevated DJ's game a notch or two.

Pat Thomas and DJ( so far )haven't shown an ability to be effective coming from the outside on the few times we've tried it.
Is it too much of a gamble to hang on to them, and give them another shot at a new scheme, or should we jump asap and give the new guys a season to work it and get ready for 2010?

While I would like to replace both Thomas and Williams, we have way too many needs to focus on those two positions right now. And, unlike the others I referenced, I believe they might improve with a better scheme and better teammates.

[Darth CarlSatan]

While I would like to replace both Thomas and Williams, we have way too many needs to focus on those two positions right now. And, unlike the others I referenced, I believe they might improve with a better scheme and better teammates.

Good Enough!:bananen_smilies046: