how about the o-line

[slc chief]

i think they did a pretty dang good job against a pretty solid d congrats keep it up

[chief31]

i think they did a pretty dang good job against a pretty solid d congrats keep it up
Agreed. Aside from the shock of losing this game, the o-line play is almost as shocking.

[leaves]

O-line was impressive, and for young guns, the team looked good... too bad the sidelines werent helpin that movement out much.

[greg3564]

O line was okay. The defense did okay. How do we lose a game where we forced 4 turnovers? The same defense who forced 4 turnovers also allowed 423 yards. 342 of that was passing. The play calling in the first half was actually pretty good, but the coaches digressed in the second half and pissed the game away, again.

[Three7s]

O line was okay. The defense did okay. How do we lose a game where we forced 4 turnovers? The same defense who forced 4 turnovers also allowed 423 yards. 342 of that was passing. The play calling in the first half was actually pretty good, but the coaches digressed in the second half and pissed the game away, again.
Defense was okay? Besides forcing four turnovers, we let old man Garcia completely TORCH our secondary! Yes, we had some injuries, but come on. They had no running game to speak of! It was pathetic! Yes, we did get conservative in the 2nd half, until that one drive where we got a FG.

[jap1]

Agreed. Aside from the shock of losing this game, the o-line play is almost as shocking.

Wait ... was that the KC o-line? Did they go out and pick up some real linemen or something? Tyler had time to throw, there were huge holes. I mean, the RB didnt have to break two tackles to get to the line of scrimmage!!

But seriously, were there any changes in the line-up this week? Did Taylor or McIntosh start at RT or did they switch?

[wolfpack]

hermmie saw we had 21 points at half and thought we were playing arena ball so he tried not to score anymore points. Gun seeing we were up more than 2 TD`s decided to just rush those mad sacking front four we have.

[wolfpack]

hermmie saw we had 21 points at half and thought we were playing arena ball so he tried not to score anymore points. Gun seeing we were up more than 2 TD`s decided to just rush those mad sacking front four we have.
oh yea, forgot, why is jon magraw on this team?

[jap1]

oh yea, forgot, why is jon magraw on this team?

I think he is a pretty decent special teamer. I see him at least in the pile on almost every kickoff and punt. But, yeah, that "tackle" he missed almost made me throw my glass at the TV.

[Darth CarlSatan]

Defense was okay? Besides forcing four turnovers, we let old man Garcia completely TORCH our secondary! Yes, we had some injuries, but come on. They had no running game to speak of! It was pathetic! Yes, we did get conservative in the 2nd half, until that one drive where we got a FG.

Did our Corners give up a bunch of passes today?

[greg3564]

Defense was okay? Besides forcing four turnovers, we let old man Garcia completely TORCH our secondary! Yes, we had some injuries, but come on. They had no running game to speak of! It was pathetic! Yes, we did get conservative in the 2nd half, until that one drive where we got a FG.

Like I said, it was okay. Not great. Considering they forced 4 fumbles from a offense that's 9th in rushing, 14th in passing and 13th in total yards, they did okay. But in the end, the play calling and conservative nature of a Herm Edwards team cost us a win.

On the bright side, if we can get rid of Herm, we have the potential of a pretty good QB in Thigpen.

[greg3564]

Did our Corners give up a bunch of passes today?

If 342 yards of passing is a "bunch", then yes.

[Darth CarlSatan]

If 342 yards of passing is a "bunch", then yes.

Let me rephrase. Was it the Corners exclusively who gave up the yardage?

[jap1]

Let me rephrase. Was it the Corners exclusively who gave up the yardage?

If you count our 4th string CBs, then I would have to argue yes. Leggett gave up one TD in the endzone when he bit on a pump fake. One of the corners (couldnt see who) bit on the halfback pass for a TD. I am not sure but I think one of the corners (and a LB) missed an easy tackle and let them score a TD. And I think it was Leggett who gave up the big pass to Bryant (but to his credit it was good coverage and an amazing circus catch). But, I dont blame just the CBs or just the safeties. Defense is the ultimate team game. You could argue the safeties could have been there to help, the line could have gotten more pressure, etc.

I hope Flowers is back for next week ... we need his skills and the depth at CB.

[Darth CarlSatan]

If you count our 4th string CBs, then I would have to argue yes. Leggett gave up one TD in the endzone when he bit on a pump fake. One of the corners (couldnt see who) bit on the halfback pass for a TD. I am not sure but I think one of the corners (and a LB) missed an easy tackle and let them score a TD. And I think it was Leggett who gave up the big pass to Bryant (but to his credit it was good coverage and an amazing circus catch). But, I dont blame just the CBs or just the safeties. Defense is the ultimate team game. You could argue the safeties could have been there to help, the line could have gotten more pressure, etc.

I hope Flowers is back for next week ... we need his skills and the depth at CB.

Okay and thank you; you answered my question completely. Now it all makes sense. Did Brandon get hurt in the first quarter or something?
And where was Carr, assuming we didn't start Surtain?

[Three7s]

[/b]Okay and thank you; you answered my question completely. Now it all makes sense. Did Brandon get hurt in the first quarter or something?
And where was Carr, assuming we didn't start Surtain?
Both of them went out during the game, as well as Derrick Johnson.

[jap1]

[/B]Okay and thank you; you answered my question completely. Now it all makes sense. Did Brandon get hurt in the first quarter or something?
And where was Carr, assuming we didn't start Surtain?

Carr was usually on the other side of the field for most of those plays I think. He did play well though. I dont think he gave up any big plays and he picked off a floater from Garcia.

[Darth CarlSatan]

Both of them went out during the game, as well as Derrick Johnson.

Well I can sum the inevitable end of that up in TWO WORDS:

GOODBYE
DEFENSE.

Yep; just call up Grain Valley and tell them to report to Arrowhead on Monday. Same if not better results.

[jap1]

Well I can sum the inevitable end of that up in TWO WORDS:

GOODBYE
DEFENSE.

Yep; just call up Grain Valley and tell them to report to Arrowhead on Monday. Same if not better results.

We had a defense?

[Darth CarlSatan]

We had a defense?

:funnypost::lol:

Okay, let me rephrase;

GOODBYE
ANY DECENT
PASS-PROTECTION.

[Hayvern]

What I am willing to say on this game is that at least the right side of the line was not the revolver door they usually are. This was a tough defense they played and they did a good job.

[Three7s]

What I am willing to say on this game is that at least the right side of the line was not the revolver door they usually are. This was a tough defense they played and they did a good job.
Our offense DID let up in the 2nd half, but we still moved the ball well. 1st half, we just caught them off-guard, more than anything. I have to admit, our O-line looked great. There were some HUGE holes made. The pocket formed perfectly for Thigpen, and he did his thing. Shame that our defense couldn't stop them when it mattered.

Still, to do this against a defense like the Bucs, looks like our offense is getting better. Now for that defense......

[Darth CarlSatan]

Our offense DID let up in the 2nd half, but we still moved the ball well. 1st half, we just caught them off-guard, more than anything. I have to admit, our O-line looked great. There were some HUGE holes made. The pocket formed perfectly for Thigpen, and he did his thing. Shame that our defense couldn't stop them when it mattered.

Still, to do this against a defense like the Bucs, looks like our offense is getting better. Now for that defense......

Step Right Up, Cause' DCS has the prescription!
Long story short; THROW THAT F*CKING COVER 2 SH*T TO THE CURB, AND LET GUN RUN HIS SHOW HIS WAY!

[josh1971]

oh yea, forgot, why is jon magraw on this team?

To fill a spot on the roster for guys that Carl Peterson is infatuated with. It was vacated when we got rid of Mr. "I do everything, but none of it really well" Boomer Grigsby.

jb

[Coach]

I thought the O-line looked respectable for the first time this year. Albert held his own. RT is still an issue without a doubt though. Part of the success was due to the increased role of Jamal Charles in the backfield. He is the best blocking back this team has currently.

[josh1971]

Who's starting at RT right now? And who is this Adrian Jones cat? It looks to me like a project player that Herm brought over from the Jets.

jb

[jmlamerson]

Step Right Up, Cause' DCS has the prescription!
Long story short; THROW THAT F*CKING COVER 2 SH*T TO THE CURB, AND LET GUN RUN HIS SHOW HIS WAY!

Exactly right. You can't run a Cover 2 without the front four getting pressure on the QB and without good, coverage safeties. This front four couldn't get pressure on my grandma. Our safeties are just too slow and too poor at coverage. Flowers and Carr work in the Cover 2, but are too slow to cover receivers if the QB has all day to throw. We have no LB, except Pat Thomas, who seems to be a fit for the Cover 2 defense.

JA was a perfect fit,, but that's a whole other discussion.

The risk, of course, is that if we go to a more blitzing, Gunther type of offense, that our secondary will get torched even worse, as they aren't very good at man to man coverage, especially as they tire out.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

I thought the O-line looked respectable for the first time this year. Albert held his own. RT is still an issue without a doubt though. Part of the success was due to the increased role of Jamal Charles in the backfield. He is the best blocking back this team has currently.
Really? I thought they looked good for the 2nd time this year. Can't make up my mind whether they played better yesterday or against Denver, Either way, they played well both games. Just can't figure out why they are so inconsistant.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

Exactly right. You can't run a Cover 2 without the front four getting pressure on the QB and without good, coverage safeties. This front four couldn't get pressure on my grandma. Our safeties are just too slow and too poor at coverage. Flowers and Carr work in the Cover 2, but are too slow to cover receivers if the QB has all day to throw. We have no LB, except Pat Thomas, who seems to be a fit for the Cover 2 defense.

JA was a perfect fit,, but that's a whole other discussion.

The risk, of course, is that if we go to a more blitzing, Gunther type of offense, that our secondary will get torched even worse, as they aren't very good at man to man coverage, especially as they tire out.
Man I remember those days not to long ago when the blitz would lead to at least one deep TD against us every single game!!! Most of the time right down the middle. It seems to have subsided a bit which i am thankfull for. Now if they could find that happy medium.....

[Darth CarlSatan]

Exactly right. You can't run a Cover 2 without the front four getting pressure on the QB and without good, coverage safeties. This front four couldn't get pressure on my grandma. Our safeties are just too slow and too poor at coverage. Flowers and Carr work in the Cover 2, but are too slow to cover receivers if the QB has all day to throw. We have no LB, except Pat Thomas, who seems to be a fit for the Cover 2 defense.

JA was a perfect fit,, but that's a whole other discussion.

The risk, of course, is that if we go to a more blitzing, Gunther type of offense, that our secondary will get torched even worse, as they aren't very good at man to man coverage, especially as they tire out.

We've got to do some major revamping of this defense at the end of the season. The thing that kills me is the lack of fundamentals displayed by these guys. The tackling( if you can even call it that )is just p*ss-poor.
I agree about the Safeties; we need one guy who can hit and stick the run at the line, and an ultra-fast Free Safety who can assist on the pass protection.
I'm not too worried about Flowers and Carr working with a new scheme. Their long-ball coverage may not be the greatest, but they can shut down the 40 yard or less passes. They'll have to work hard to adapt, but they're both very driven guys. They can do it.

Line-Backers; good God how we need them. Find out who the best 2 OLB's in the draft and/or free agency are, and sign them yesterday.
We have to go back to the outside; that's all there is to it. A dominant pass rush gives Carr and Flowers MUCH better odds at being effective in man to man coverage.

[jap1]

Does anyone know if McIntosh started last week versus the Bucs?

If so, did he play the whole game?

Wondering if he stepped it up or if it was Herb.

[Chiefs 4]

This is right on target. It's stupifying to me that the Head Coach is supposedly defensive minded and the D-Coordinator is a former head coach himself---yet the defensive unit misses tackles like Pop Warner league 8 year olds overruning plays, trying to arm tackle, etc.---and other guys try to make ESPN's "THE HIT" instead of just bringing their man down. It's a reflection on the tone set by the Head Coach, which is unacceptably sloppy/lazy and disorganized. This team will be lucky to get one more win this year---and it wouldn't shock me if we've actually seen Herman Edwards last win as a Head Coach in Kansas City.

[Darth CarlSatan]

This is right on target. It's stupifying to me that the Head Coach is supposedly defensive minded and the D-Coordinator is a former head coach himself---yet the defensive unit misses tackles like Pop Warner league 8 year olds overruning plays, trying to arm tackle, etc.---and other guys try to make ESPN's "THE HIT" instead of just bringing their man down. It's a reflection on the tone set by the Head Coach, which is unacceptably sloppy/lazy and disorganized. This team will be lucky to get one more win this year---and it wouldn't shock me if we've actually seen Herman Edwards last win as a Head Coach in Kansas City.

:sign0098: Rep Added!

Flowers kind of cracked me up in that Atlanta game; the Atlanta RB is just DRAGGING Thomas down the field, and Pollard can't get a grip on him either.
Brandon runs up and does that thing he's kind of known for where he stops, lowers his shoulder, and tries to get the "dead stop"; didn't work out too well! LOL!
BUT; he did plant the hit that eventually brought the guy down.

Who should have only gotten three yards. LOL!

[KottkeKU]

The O line performed well against the Bucs....Thigpen and Charles both flourished...now we need to see if they can keep it up consitently...only time will tell...but i was impressed how they played vs a pretty good Tampa defense...

(for the future) Now what we need is a Rey Maualuga with our top 4 pick, and trade LJ for another 1st round draft pick...Tony will be gone for a 3rd (maybe 2nd if we package it) and we will have a consecutive draft with a lot of picks...maybe we can even snag another dope OLB with LJs first and get another T with a high 2nd

we still need OL,LB,WR,DE,QB, and even S and TE if Tony is gone via draft/fa in the upcoming offseason too

which means another 2 or 4 years minimum until we see these guys in their prime....so buckle up folks. its gonna be a while before anything good happens...


I think the reason Garcia went off was because the safeties and linebackers could not cover the flats, and down the seams....our young corners in Carr (snag!) and Flowers are going to be very good corners in this league in the future, i would bet alot on it...

[texaschief]

I agree about the Safeties; we need one guy who can hit and stick the run at the line, and an ultra-fast Free Safety who can assist on the pass protection.
I'm not too worried about Flowers and Carr working with a new scheme. Their long-ball coverage may not be the greatest, but they can shut down the 40 yard or less passes. They'll have to work hard to adapt, but they're both very driven guys. They can do it.

Line-Backers; good God how we need them. Find out who the best 2 OLB's in the draft and/or free agency are, and sign them yesterday.
We have to go back to the outside; that's all there is to it. A dominant pass rush gives Carr and Flowers MUCH better odds at being effective in man to man coverage.

Pat Thomas in his fourth year as a 6th rd pick, compares favorably to other high profile and top ranking MLB's who play in the 4-3 scheme. According to ESPN.com, Thomas' 47 tkls ranks right there with Demeco Ryans from Houston (51), Lofa Tatupu from Seattle (41), Nick Barnett from Green Bay (44), Jon Beason from Carolina (probably the best, young MLB in the league) (64), and the ultimate litmus test, Brian Ulacher from Chicago (44).

Thomas has earned that middle linebacking spot for the time being. Without a doubt though, the Chiefs DO need a better OLB opposite Derrick Johnson.

Derrick Johnson is a freak athletically and we need another LB just like him on the other side. The best option in Free Agency will be Jonathan Vilma. He's 26 with 72 tackles ALREADY this year. I doubt New Orleans will let him get to free agency and will probably label him a franchise player, but he'd be the best option this off season. Being that the Chiefs run a 4-3, they'll only need one LB over the winter. Hopefully they can take a run at Vilma. If the Saints actually DO let him hit the market, it's not out of the question for him to come to Kansas City. Herm Edwards was the guy who drafted Vilma at New York in 2004.

Now, take a look at DT's in the 4-3. Tank Tyler is young and definitely still needs some polishing. He needs to learn to stay in his gaps and keep the O-linemen from reaching that second level. I think you saw a lot of maturing in that sense this past game with Tampa. The Chiefs were able to stifle the Buc's rushing attack. But, if you compare Tyler's numbers, they also compare favorably to the best DT's in 4-3 systems around the league.

Tank has 33 tkls and no forced fumbles (FF) in his second year. Compore that to Albert Haynesworth, who is probably not just the best DT in a 4-3, but all of football period. Haynesworth has (29) and 1 FF. Kevin Williams from Minn. has (34) and no FF. Pat Williams from Minn. has (29) and no FF. John Henderson and his 7 years of experience only has (26) and no FF. Glenn Dorsey as a rookie has (22) and 1 FF.

Bottom line, you can complain all you want about them not staying in gaps and controlling the line, but the two young DT's have the talent and will grow into their positions over the next couple years. It just takes experience. Again, Haynesworth just reached his first Pro Bowl last year after his 7th season in the league. So, wanting to pull the plug on a couple guys after their first or second year is a rash decision.

I think Flowers and Carr will be great at the CB spots. Both have flashed their talent on several occasions this season. Experience will allow them to play more consistently.

I really like Pollard as a SS, although, someone really needs to give him some wrap-up tackling drills. His talent is obvious. He's around the ball a lot, which shows he can read and has the talent to react to the ball and be where he needs to be when a play is to be made. He just really needs to work on basic tackling. That was the knock on him going into the draft a couple years ago. He was drafted as a junior out of college in 2006. He probably would've been a 1st rd pick in 2007 after his senior season. I kinda look at Pollard as this season being his second year in the league. His first year, he didn't play much. Last year, he was basically a rookie with this year being his second year as a starter.

I do agree however, that the Chiefs do need a faster FS. Page seems to be a light SS. After watching him the last couple weeks, he just doesn't have the speed required back there and I'd imagine they'll either re-sign him to be a backup or let him walk. Page has great tkls numbers (39), 2 INTS AND 1 FF. But, it's due to the lack of good DL and LB play that made his tackle numbers so high.

So, going into free agency and the draft in 2009, the Chiefs have a DE, OLB and FS spot to fill. If the Chiefs could land Vilma, that would be huge. Then they could draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd and wait till at least the 3rd or 4th to get that FS. I'm not sure there will be a good FS on the FA market.

[texaschief]

The need for a QB is still there, but if Thigpen steps up and becomes that guy, then the Chiefs won't need to worry about spending a first round pick on a QB at least for another year. Although, I'm a little leery about building this team around a 6'1 QB, even though he IS 224 lbs. Hopefully, he can hold on to the starting spot the rest of this year and perhaps for another year or two until the rest of the team is complete and ready for a franchise type QB.

If the Thigpen CAN take control of the starting spot and stay healthy, then that first pick needs to go to DE. Period. The 2nd round pick can then go to RT and perhaps pick up a guard in free agency or later in the draft. Stacey Andrews might be the best OG in the free agent class. But, OG is a position that is able to be filled in the 3rd or even 4th round. So, i don't think OG is as pressing as RT or DE.

Going into the 2009 off season and draft, the Chiefs' overall needs will be RT, RG, DE, OLB, and FS. 5 starting spots out of 22 that need to be filled after 3 drafts isn't a poor rebuild. Hopefully, Thigpen can keep impressing and claim that spot so the Chiefs won't have to spend a pick on a QB in the first round and can then use it at DE.

If the Chiefs can grab Vilma, that would be HUGE toward completing this team. OLB is a position that usually takes a high draft pick to fill. My fantasy off season for the Chiefs would be:

Free Agents:
Jonathan Vilma

Draft:
1-DE
2-OT
2-FS (compensation for LJ)
3-OG

[Darth CarlSatan]

:sign0098:Nice! Is that the REP button beneath my fingers?

Yes, yes it is.

[Darth CarlSatan]

Aw Hell; I can do better than that;

WELCOME ABOARD!

With Great Dirk-Rock, Comes Great Responsibility!
YouTube - the touch

[Darth CarlSatan]

This is right on target. It's stupifying to me that the Head Coach is supposedly defensive minded and the D-Coordinator is a former head coach himself---yet the defensive unit misses tackles like Pop Warner league 8 year olds overruning plays, trying to arm tackle, etc.---and other guys try to make ESPN's "THE HIT" instead of just bringing their man down. It's a reflection on the tone set by the Head Coach, which is unacceptably sloppy/lazy and disorganized. This team will be lucky to get one more win this year---and it wouldn't shock me if we've actually seen Herman Edwards last win as a Head Coach in Kansas City.

Chiefs 4, You've stepped right in and brought much to the table;
DOUBLE VICTORY DAY INDUCTION!!!!!
Your spot at the Round Table of The Dirk-Rocked was solidly earned.
YouTube - the touch