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View Full Version : Front and Center CHIEF31; time to STEP UP! lol.



Darth CarlSatan
11-02-2008, 09:52 PM
Alright. I have admitted the error of my ways regarding Tyler Thigpen, and now I wanna' hear a little somthin'-somthin' from YOU regarding this O-Line.

Because unless I'm mistaken; these are the SAME GUYS we've been playing since game 1.

Can we now FINALLY agree that a better player is a better player, is a better player?

:bananen_smilies046:

chief31
11-03-2008, 12:14 AM
Alright. I have admitted the error of my ways regarding Tyler Thigpen, and now I wanna' hear a little somthin'-somthin' from YOU regarding this O-Line.

Because unless I'm mistaken; these are the SAME GUYS we've been playing since game 1.

Can we now FINALLY agree that a better player is a better player, is a better player?

:bananen_smilies046:

Consider it tenatively done. I am amazed at what I have seen from them over the past two games.

I don't expect it to continue. But there is no way to deny that they have played very well lately.

And no. We can not agree on the 'better player' thing.

Michael Jordan popularized the "Scottie Pippen" and it happens everywhere in football. One player makes another look better than he really is. And, in the process, actually makes him better.

Darth CarlSatan
11-03-2008, 12:18 AM
Consider it tenatively done. I am amazed at what I have seen from them over the past two games.

I don't expect it to continue. But there is no way to deny that they have played very well lately.

And no. We can not agree on the 'better player' thing.

Michael Jordan popularized the "Scottie Pippen" and it happens everywhere in football. One player makes another look better than he really is. And, in the process, actually makes him better.

Sooooo Croyle, Martin, and Thigpen are all equally awesome. Got it.
:D

Hayvern
11-03-2008, 12:45 AM
Well I too am nearly ready to think that Thigpen does have a shot here. The kid is really getting the job done. I don't necassarily subscribe to the he's better because he has good people theory even though I have to recognize in any team situation that is clearly the case.

No, Thigpen is doing what we would expect a quarterback to do. You can see that he is having fun out there and that is making all the difference. Now if he just had a better coach, then I could get more excited.

I am starting to see improvement now, and we should have a shot at being competitive with San Diego next weekend. I would like to see it happen.

Darth CarlSatan
11-03-2008, 01:04 AM
Well I too am nearly ready to think that Thigpen does have a shot here. The kid is really getting the job done. I don't necassarily subscribe to the he's better because he has good people theory even though I have to recognize in any team situation that is clearly the case.

No, Thigpen is doing what we would expect a quarterback to do. You can see that he is having fun out there and that is making all the difference. Now if he just had a better coach, then I could get more excited.

I am starting to see improvement now, and we should have a shot at being competitive with San Diego next weekend. I would like to see it happen.

Well here's what you should be excited about:
We know the kid can execute tricky stuff. We know Charles can execute tricky stuff. And we have an O-Coord who'd not afraid to try tricky stuff!
That Is Gooooooood!
Now; we abandon the Tight End as a focal point, line Charles up BEHIND Mike Cox, and Sweet Virginia; it's GO TIME.

Three7s
11-03-2008, 01:06 AM
Well here's what you should be excited about:
We know the kid can execute tricky stuff. We know Charles can execute tricky stuff. And we have an O-Coord who'd not afraid to try tricky stuff!
That Is Gooooooood!
Now; we abandon the Tight End as a focal point, line Charles up BEHIND Mike Cox, and Sweet Virginia; it's GO TIME.
I want Charles to carry the main load so much, but I'm just scared to death that he'll get injured. He has a whole world of talent, but I just don't know if his body can take that kind of abuse. Now that we don't have a choice, may as well try.

jap1
11-03-2008, 01:08 AM
Well here's what you should be excited about:
We know the kid can execute tricky stuff. We know Charles can execute tricky stuff. And we have an O-Coord who'd not afraid to try tricky stuff!
That Is Gooooooood!
Now; we abandon the Tight End as a focal point, line Charles up BEHIND Mike Cox, and Sweet Virginia; it's GO TIME.

It was nice to see that they used the FB occasionally. He looked pretty good in the preseason, and I think he can be a pretty good FB. Id like to see him getting some passes from Thiggy too though. A little playaction bootleg dump to Cox?

I wonder if they are running the 4 wide with Cottam because they dont like what they see out of the 3rd WR?

Darth CarlSatan
11-03-2008, 01:17 AM
It was nice to see that they used the FB occasionally. He looked pretty good in the preseason, and I think he can be a pretty good FB. Id like to see him getting some passes from Thiggy too though. A little playaction bootleg dump to Cox?

I wonder if they are running the 4 wide with Cottam because they dont like what they see out of the 3rd WR?

I'm not exactly sure what their reasons are, but even if the line is performing better, a FB can definitely help widen the holes or provide misdirection, and MORE Blocking in pass situations.
It's a win-win, and we should at least try it.

Big Daddy Tek
11-03-2008, 01:20 AM
It was nice to see that they used the FB occasionally. He looked pretty good in the preseason, and I think he can be a pretty good FB. Id like to see him getting some passes from Thiggy too though. A little playaction bootleg dump to Cox?

I wonder if they are running the 4 wide with Cottam because they dont like what they see out of the 3rd WR?


To answer your question: When you have a second tight end in. The defense doesnt know if he is in for run blocking help or pass protection. A very small percentage of the time, hes in to actually catch a pass. This is why its so nice to have a good #2 tight end. If they had the #3 WR out thier, the defense knows that they are probably dealing with a pass and even if its not, they dont have to play alot of men in the box to cover the run.

Darth CarlSatan
11-03-2008, 01:59 AM
To answer your question: When you have a second tight end in. The defense doesnt know if he is in for run blocking help or pass protection. A very small percentage of the time, hes in to actually catch a pass. This is why its so nice to have a good #2 tight end. If they had the #3 WR out thier, the defense knows that they are probably dealing with a pass and even if its not, they dont have to play alot of men in the box to cover the run.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't there some official commentary about utilizing the spread more with Thigpen?

chief31
11-03-2008, 02:24 AM
Sooooo Croyle, Martin, and Thigpen are all equally awesome. Got it.
:D

I have yet to see Croyle get that kind of protection, or anything even close to it. So I have no clue what kind of QB he is, other than another Herm victim.

I do know that Huard is a damn good QB with protection.

I don't expect this o-line to continue to provide good protection. But I will be ecstatic if they do.

I will choose to eat my crow in small, week-to-week portions.

Darth CarlSatan
11-03-2008, 03:42 AM
I have yet to see Croyle get that kind of protection, or anything even close to it. So I have no clue what kind of QB he is, other than another Herm victim.

I do know that Huard is a damn good QB with protection.

I don't expect this o-line to continue to provide good protection. But I will be ecstatic if they do.

I will choose to eat my crow in small, week-to-week portions.

Oh boy; I'm just stymied here. Alright! Let's cover what I DO know:

1) We will, God Willing, more than likely never get to find out if Croyle can get it done with "that level of protection".
2) I'll agree on Huard.

3) I need film! And tons of it. Something has changed, and it's NOT the waving of some Magic Wand!

okikcfan
11-03-2008, 04:06 AM
In the 2007 season the Chiefs were plagued with quarterback, running back, kicker and offensive coaching controversies. Damon Huard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damon_Huard) started the season and compiled a 4W 5L record. He was benched in favor or Edwards 2006 draft choice Brodie Croyle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodie_Croyle) who split time with Huard mid-season, then became injured, then finished most of the season. Croyle played in a total of 9 games and did not win any. Running back Larry Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Johnson) injured his foot mid season and was replaced by Priest Holmes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Holmes) who came out of retirement late in the year and was ineffective. Kicker Justin Medlock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Medlock) was Edwards draft choice but was cut after the first game and replaced by Dave Rayner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Rayner). He was cut late in the year and replace with John Carney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carney). Finally, after promoting Mike Solari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Solari) from Offensive Line Coach to Offensive Coordinator in 2007, Edwards fired Solari and replaced him with Chan Gailey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chan_Gailey) in early 2008. He also fired his offensive line coach, receivers coach, and running backs coach.
43 year old Chiefs owner Clark Hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Hunt) set the tone for the 2008 season by expressing his support for Herm Edwards and GM Carl Peterson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Peterson) and their plan to rebuild the team. However Clark did warn that he expected the Chiefs to be competitive for a playoff spot in 2008.
In an attempt to rebuild the team, Herm Edwards cut numerous aging veterans in the offseason, including Pro Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Bowl) Defensive End Jared Allen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Allen) who was traded to Minnesota Vikings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings). As a result, Edwards fielded one of the youngest teams in the NFL in 2008. Edwards streak of opening day defeats continued as the Chiefs lost to the New England Patriots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots) by the score of 17-10. This continued the Chiefs losing record from 2007 into 2008. Herm Edwards team skidded to a franchise record of 12 consecutive regular season defeats. The Chiefs finally ended the streak after defeating the Denver Broncos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Broncos) at home on September 28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_28), 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008) by a score of 33-19. Unfortunately they were blown out the following week at the Carolina Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Panthers). During that game, the Chiefs only managed to gain 127 total yards, their worst performance in 22 years.


Now lets look @ Herms coaching record shall we,
As HC of the Jets he had 39 wins and lost 41.

Now as the Chiefs HC he has won 14 games and lost 26 games.

Now as you can see, he has made some very bad choices as HC, and if history proves itself all over again, well, it aint gonna get any better.


Teams coached by Edwards have typically started most seasons with poor performances, leading to speculation that Edwards does a poor job of preparation in the preseason.
Additionally, Edwards' record on opening day of the NFL season is 2-6, and his teams have been outscored 203-135 (including 87-30 in the last 4 season openers, all losses) in these games. Ironically, the last season opening game that Edwards' current team, the Chiefs, managed to win was against Herm Edwards, when he was still coach of the New York Jets.

Edwards has been criticized for a number of perceived clock management gaffes.

Edwards' game plans have often been criticized as too conservative with little or no imagination. A prime example of Edwards' game plans, the lone Chiefs 2006 playoff game was one of the worst offensive performances in recent history. Now, the question is, how many more franchise records are Herm and Carl going to break?

okikcfan
11-03-2008, 04:27 AM
This is a statement made by Carl Peterson on Jan. 9, 2006.....

“We selected Herm Edwards because he is without question one of the most qualified head football coaches in the NFL today,” Peterson commented. “Herm knows what the National Football League is all about. He coaches all aspects of the game and he coaches them well.

Whats wrong with this statement?

Edwards joined the Chiefs after posting a 39-41 record in five seasons as head coach of the N.Y. Jets (2001-05), the third-highest victory total in that franchise’s history. And this is a good thing?

Darth CarlSatan
11-03-2008, 04:31 AM
In the 2007 season the Chiefs were plagued with quarterback, running back, kicker and offensive coaching controversies. Damon Huard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damon_Huard) started the season and compiled a 4W 5L record. He was benched in favor or Edwards 2006 draft choice Brodie Croyle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodie_Croyle) who split time with Huard mid-season, then became injured, then finished most of the season. Croyle played in a total of 9 games and did not win any. Running back Larry Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Johnson) injured his foot mid season and was replaced by Priest Holmes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Holmes) who came out of retirement late in the year and was ineffective. Kicker Justin Medlock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Medlock) was Edwards draft choice but was cut after the first game and replaced by Dave Rayner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Rayner). He was cut late in the year and replace with John Carney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carney). Finally, after promoting Mike Solari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Solari) from Offensive Line Coach to Offensive Coordinator in 2007, Edwards fired Solari and replaced him with Chan Gailey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chan_Gailey) in early 2008. He also fired his offensive line coach, receivers coach, and running backs coach.
43 year old Chiefs owner Clark Hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Hunt) set the tone for the 2008 season by expressing his support for Herm Edwards and GM Carl Peterson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Peterson) and their plan to rebuild the team. However Clark did warn that he expected the Chiefs to be competitive for a playoff spot in 2008.
In an attempt to rebuild the team, Herm Edwards cut numerous aging veterans in the offseason, including Pro Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Bowl) Defensive End Jared Allen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Allen) who was traded to Minnesota Vikings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings). As a result, Edwards fielded one of the youngest teams in the NFL in 2008. Edwards streak of opening day defeats continued as the Chiefs lost to the New England Patriots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots) by the score of 17-10. This continued the Chiefs losing record from 2007 into 2008. Herm Edwards team skidded to a franchise record of 12 consecutive regular season defeats. The Chiefs finally ended the streak after defeating the Denver Broncos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Broncos) at home on September 28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_28), 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008) by a score of 33-19. Unfortunately they were blown out the following week at the Carolina Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Panthers). During that game, the Chiefs only managed to gain 127 total yards, their worst performance in 22 years.


Now lets look @ Herms coaching record shall we,
As HC of the Jets he had 39 wins and lost 41.

Now as the Chiefs HC he has won 14 games and lost 26 games.

Now as you can see, he has made some very bad choices as HC, and if history proves itself all over again, well, it aint gonna get any better.

Teams coached by Edwards have typically started most seasons with poor performances, leading to speculation that Edwards does a poor job of preparation in the preseason.
Additionally, Edwards' record on opening day of the NFL season is 2-6, and his teams have been outscored 203-135 (including 87-30 in the last 4 season openers, all losses) in these games. Ironically, the last season opening game that Edwards' current team, the Chiefs, managed to win was against Herm Edwards, when he was still coach of the New York Jets.
Edwards has been criticized for a number of perceived clock management gaffes.
Edwards' game plans have often been criticized as too conservative with little or no imagination. A prime example of Edwards' game plans, the lone Chiefs 2006 playoff game was one of the worst offensive performances in recent history.Now, the question is, how many more franchise records are Herm and Carl going to break?

YIKES!
Man.....
That is JUST sad. Is it possible that Herm is Carl's Greatest Yard-Sale Pick Me Up EVER?
Confidence in Chan is medium to medium-well right now for me; I think if given free-reign, we'd see an even more effective and interesting offense.
Knowing that Gun is being forced to run a scheme he's not all that crazy about ALSO makes me think he's probably not getting much say in drafting either.

Good God; you wanna' set the template for a GM "going out on bottom", look no further than One Arrowhead Drive.
Sad.

Darth CarlSatan
11-03-2008, 04:47 AM
This is a statement made by Carl Peterson on Jan. 9, 2006.....

“We selected Herm Edwards because he is without question one of the most qualified head football coaches in the NFL today,” Peterson commented. “Herm knows what the National Football League is all about. He coaches all aspects of the game and he coaches them well.

Whats wrong with this statement?

Edwards joined the Chiefs after posting a 39-41 record in five seasons as head coach of the N.Y. Jets (2001-05), the third-highest victory total in that franchise’s history. And this is a good thing?

May I cordially direct you to my post-game overture?
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5864

jtandcrew
11-03-2008, 09:12 AM
YIKES!
Man.....
That is JUST sad. Is it possible that Herm is Carl's Greatest Yard-Sale Pick Me Up EVER?
Confidence in Chan is medium to medium-well right now for me; I think if given free-reign, we'd see an even more effective and interesting offense.
Knowing that Gun is being forced to run a scheme he's not all that crazy about ALSO makes me think he's probably not getting much say in drafting either.

Good God; you wanna' set the template for a GM "going out on bottom", look no further than One Arrowhead Drive.
Sad.

I have to agree with you on this 1. I have stated this before. Gun is not being allowed to run his own defense. If he was it would be nothing but man to man blitz defense. Also, I really dont think he is getting alot of respect in the draft room since Herm is such a defensive guru! :lol: Also, I think Chan is getting a little more free reign with the offense. Hell, we had a QB catch a pass. Herm needs to be the HC and not be HC/DC/OC Carl already has enough titles and Herm just needs to get good at 1 before he takes on all 3!:bananen_smilies046:

Bike
11-03-2008, 09:16 AM
No thanks.

Bike
11-03-2008, 09:18 AM
I have to agree with you on this 1. I have stated this before. Gun is not being allowed to run his own defense. If he was it would be nothing but man to man blitz defense. Also, I really dont think he is getting alot of respect in the draft room since Herm is such a defensive guru! :lol: Also, I think Chan is getting a little more free reign with the offense. Hell, we had a QB catch a pass. Herm needs to be the HC and not be HC/DC/OC Carl already has enough titles and Herm just needs to get good at 1 before he takes on all 3!:bananen_smilies046:
No! Herm needs to go bye-bye!!:bananen_smilies046:

jtandcrew
11-03-2008, 09:23 AM
No! Herm needs to go bye-bye!!:bananen_smilies046:

I wasnt saying Herm doesnt need to go. I was just reiterating what ive been saying for months. Let Gunther run his own defense with the talent he has instead of forcing him to run the damned cover 2. Its almost as bad as the prevent D. I agree Herm AND Carl needs to go. Ive even said that they need to go NOW! Get a new HC and GM in now so they can evaluate what they have during the season instead of the off season. :bananen_smilies046:

Bike
11-03-2008, 09:39 AM
I wasnt saying Herm doesnt need to go. I was just reiterating what ive been saying for months. Let Gunther run his own defense with the talent he has instead of forcing him to run the damned cover 2. Its almost as bad as the prevent D. I agree Herm AND Carl needs to go. Ive even said that they need to go NOW! Get a new HC and GM in now so they can evaluate what they have during the season instead of the off season. :bananen_smilies046:
I know JT!!:bananen_smilies046: Let the coordinaters do what they're paid to do. If Herm just stood there on the sidelines and made zero decisions, we'd be at least 5-3 at this point...:toast2:

jtandcrew
11-03-2008, 09:43 AM
I know JT!!:bananen_smilies046: Let the coordinaters do what they're paid to do. If Herm just stood there on the sidelines and made zero decisions, we'd be at least 5-3 at this point...:toast2:

:bananen_smilies046:

Darth CarlSatan
11-03-2008, 11:49 AM
I have to agree with you on this 1. I have stated this before. Gun is not being allowed to run his own defense. If he was it would be nothing but man to man blitz defense. Also, I really dont think he is getting alot of respect in the draft room since Herm is such a defensive guru! :lol: Also, I think Chan is getting a little more free reign with the offense. Hell, we had a QB catch a pass. Herm needs to be the HC and not be HC/DC/OC Carl already has enough titles and Herm just needs to get good at 1 before he takes on all 3!:bananen_smilies046:

:funnypost: You got THAT right!