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jap1
11-13-2008, 03:48 AM
The following are stats for qbs in their first year or two, all but one have one thing in common ... a ring:

Tom Brady (2nd year in league):
15 games; 64%; 18 TD; 12 INT; 86.5 rating

Ben Roethlisberger:
14 games; 66%; 17 TD; 11 INT; 98.1

Eli Manning (was not the exclusive starter in his first season):
9 games; 48%; 6 TD; 9 INT; 55.4

Peyton Manning:
16 games; 57%; 26 TD; 28 INT; 71.2

Tyler Thigpen (not the exclusive starter):
7 games; 54.2%; 8 TD; 4 INT; 76.4

Does this mean that we should annoint him the QBoTF? Not yet. But if he continues a performance like this, he may end up with numbers comparable to the top QBs in the league when they were rookies. Interpret that how you want. If the Chiefs can put some defense together, and a run game in the offseason, we may have something in the next couple of years...

Three7s
11-13-2008, 03:56 AM
Agreed, it's definitely a possibility.

texaschief
11-13-2008, 04:16 AM
I think we need to have this conversation sometime between the end of the season and the draft. There won't be a QB on the free agent market who has a better projection as a franchise QB than Tyler Thigpen, so those guys are out.

Thigpen has definitely earned the job until the end of the season. I think taking his progression one step at a time is the way to go here. I think that once defenses watch more film on our offense and figure out things that work against him and figure out ways to get pressure on him again, we could see the QB we saw against Atlanta re-emerge.

We are going into week 10. The Chiefs are currently 1-8 and have 7 more games. That gives him 11 games on the season to evaluate him as a starting QB. While it's not an entire season, it's definitely a good look at what he can do on this level. The Chiefs came into the 2008 season wanting to evaluate a QB and figure out if he was going to be the QBOTF. While it wasn't the QB the Chiefs expected, they're getting that goal accomplished.

I think identifying Thigpen was one of the shrewdest moves this front office has made since Herm has been here. The Chiefs identified him in 2007 as the guy they were going to take in the 7th round before the Vikings snatched him up. The Vikings knew what they had and tried to hide him during their joint training camp week. They thought they could get him thru waivers and the Chiefs pounced. I'm not sure who identified him, but they were right on with this guy. For a 7th rounder, he's surpassed all expectations to this point. Who knows, we might have found our Brady.

Thigpen is the Chiefs' Quarterback of the Present and that's where we need to leave it until week 17. (barring a miracle)

Trying to make arguments for or against this guy is just in vein until the last week of the season because the guy could come out and totally blow up your argument for or against him in the very next game. So, let's just put this discussion on the back burner for a month or so.

windwalker
11-13-2008, 07:16 AM
I think we need to have this conversation sometime between the end of the season and the draft. There won't be a QB on the free agent market who has a better projection as a franchise QB than Tyler Thigpen, so those guys are out.

Thigpen has definitely earned the job until the end of the season. I think taking his progression one step at a time is the way to go here. I think that once defenses watch more film on our offense and figure out things that work against him and figure out ways to get pressure on him again, we could see the QB we saw against Atlanta re-emerge.

We are going into week 10. The Chiefs are currently 1-8 and have 7 more games. That gives him 11 games on the season to evaluate him as a starting QB. While it's not an entire season, it's definitely a good look at what he can do on this level. The Chiefs came into the 2008 season wanting to evaluate a QB and figure out if he was going to be the QBOTF. While it wasn't the QB the Chiefs expected, they're getting that goal accomplished.

I think identifying Thigpen was one of the shrewdest moves this front office has made since Herm has been here. The Chiefs identified him in 2007 as the guy they were going to take in the 7th round before the Vikings snatched him up. The Vikings knew what they had and tried to hide him during their joint training camp week. They thought they could get him thru waivers and the Chiefs pounced. I'm not sure who identified him, but they were right on with this guy. For a 7th rounder, he's surpassed all expectations to this point. Who knows, we might have found our Brady.

Thigpen is the Chiefs' Quarterback of the Present and that's where we need to leave it until week 17. (barring a miracle)

Trying to make arguments for or against this guy is just in vein until the last week of the season because the guy could come out and totally blow up your argument for or against him in the very next game. So, let's just put this discussion on the back burner for a month or so.

Answer: Carl Hurl

Coach
11-13-2008, 11:13 PM
I like Thigpen a lot right now. But he has really benfited from MUCH improved play by our offensive line. It is kind of a chicken and egg game though. He has been able to stretch the field, which has helped him and the o-line as well.

Chiefster
11-14-2008, 12:16 AM
I like Thigpen a lot right now. But he has really benfited from MUCH improved play by our offensive line. It is kind of a chicken and egg game though. He has been able to stretch the field, which has helped him and the o-line as well.


The encouraging thing is that if both QB and O-line continue to improve then it does give some reason for hope of success in the seasons ahead. If only we could ever get the offense and defense playing well at the same time.

Three7s
11-14-2008, 01:04 AM
The encouraging thing is that if both QB and O-line continue to improve then it does give some reason for hope of success in the seasons ahead. If only we could ever get the offense and defense playing well at the same time.
If we had this offense with last season's defense, we'd be at least .500, right now.

Chiefster
11-14-2008, 01:11 AM
If we had this offense with last season's defense, we'd be at least .500, right now.


Yup, if only...


















Nite Crowd!

yashi
11-14-2008, 01:54 PM
Does anyone else not agree that the o-line isn't even that much better than it was earlier in the year, but more that Thigpen makes quick and decisive throws and understands when he has time to throw and when he doesn't... whereas Croyle and Huard were notorious for holding onto the ball way too long when protection broke down.

I also think the new scheme helps tremendously.. teams can't send all out blitzes anymore when we're 3 or 4 wide running quick routes. Honestly I don't understand why every team with a bad o-line doesn't run a similar offense.

jap1
11-15-2008, 12:50 AM
Does anyone else not agree that the o-line isn't even that much better than it was earlier in the year, but more that Thigpen makes quick and decisive throws and understands when he has time to throw and when he doesn't... whereas Croyle and Huard were notorious for holding onto the ball way too long when protection broke down.

I also think the new scheme helps tremendously.. teams can't send all out blitzes anymore when we're 3 or 4 wide running quick routes. Honestly I don't understand why every team with a bad o-line doesn't run a similar offense.

I think it is a little bit of a chicken or the egg problem. The O-line is better at pass blocking because it is much easier to block in the shotgun. The o-line lines up wider, and having 4 wideouts usually means the D will be in a nickel package if not dime, reducing the likelihood of a blitz. But, I still think they have improved and are giving Thiggy more time.

Thiggy should also be praised for the reasons you mentioned above.

Chiefster
11-15-2008, 01:50 AM
Does anyone else not agree that the o-line isn't even that much better than it was earlier in the year, but more that Thigpen makes quick and decisive throws and understands when he has time to throw and when he doesn't... whereas Croyle and Huard were notorious for holding onto the ball way too long when protection broke down.

I also think the new scheme helps tremendously.. teams can't send all out blitzes anymore when we're 3 or 4 wide running quick routes. Honestly I don't understand why every team with a bad o-line doesn't run a similar offense.

I honestly don't understand why we simply don't just improve our O-line when given the opportunity.

chief31
11-15-2008, 07:02 PM
Does anyone else not agree that the o-line isn't even that much better than it was earlier in the year, but more that Thigpen makes quick and decisive throws and understands when he has time to throw and when he doesn't... whereas Croyle and Huard were notorious for holding onto the ball way too long when protection broke down.

I also think the new scheme helps tremendously.. teams can't send all out blitzes anymore when we're 3 or 4 wide running quick routes. Honestly I don't understand why every team with a bad o-line doesn't run a similar offense.

Well, some of the guys just aren't very good. But, I have watched them do a whole lot better in their actual job.

Yes, there are fewer blitzes coming at them. But if you watch them, they are actually blocking alot better than they were anyway.

Thigpen has made a few quick throws. But. for the most part, I am seeing him stand in the pocket, and go through his regular progression, with room to actually step-up into the pocket and throw the ball.

OTR Chiefs fan
11-15-2008, 08:50 PM
Well, some of the guys just aren't very good. But, I have watched them do a whole lot better in their actual job.

Yes, there are fewer blitzes coming at them. But if you watch them, they are actually blocking alot better than they were anyway.

Thigpen has made a few quick throws. But. for the most part, I am seeing him stand in the pocket, and go through his regular progression, with room to actually step-up into the pocket and throw the ball.

I have to agree that the O-line is getting better. And I think it's a combination of the O-line gellling as a unit, the change of scheme and the play of Thigpen. Certainly we're going to have to make some improvements on the O-line in the off season, whether it's replacing current starters, adding depth or both. I find it funny when I hear people complaining that it's the "scheme, scheme, scheme". I said at the start of the season that it would be rough going until the team got some experience playing as a unit. Now, we're starting to see some positive progress and it should get progressively better. And I have to give the coaching staff credit for seeing where the strength of this team is and adjusting their scheme accordingly. Because just think of Herm's M.O. before this season, it was run the ball and only pass when you have to. He was very predictable. Now, we're not so predictable and we're competitive in these games. Now, if Herm can keep from making game time mistake, I'm opptimistic! :D