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Darth CarlSatan
11-15-2008, 03:22 PM
.....how you "can't run a spread in the NFL". Come on, someone indulge me; that's one of my favorites!

And seeing how the Chiefs have proven that this "can't be done"( DCS rolls eyes repeatedly ), I'd say the paradigm regarding a QB prospect has shifted.

Add to that the fact that we need a monster LB for our defense( #58 from USC, and I shall broker NO gruff to the contrary ), as our defense has no game-changers anywhere NEAR the line( and it's time for Donnie Edwards to retire; PAST time actually ), the whole QB -scenario is now open to a much wider field.

Mmmm......who else runs a spread at the college level, and has a QB particularly suited for it, and is a devout student of the game, and can be had as a quality clip-board holder/understudy without the Chiefs giving the house away?

WAIT! Why yes! Of course!



http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/MessiahProper.png

Is that the sound of DCS throwing the Gauntlet down?
Yes. Yes it is.

texaschief
11-15-2008, 03:30 PM
If the Chiefs are going to commit to the spread, their priority should WRs in the first couple rounds and then pick up Harrell in the late rounds. But, if we're REALLY going to the spread, I'd rather have a QB back there who could run, so waiting for Colt McCoy would be the best option.

Daniel is hardly the best option at QB if we keep running the spread. Mainly, because the guy we have is doing a good job as it is.

Darth CarlSatan
11-15-2008, 03:33 PM
If the Chiefs are going to commit to the spread, their priority should WRs in the first couple rounds and then pick up Harrell in the late rounds. But, if we're REALLY going to the spread, I'd rather have a QB back there who could run, so waiting for Colt McCoy would be the best option.

Daniel is hardly the best option at QB if we keep running the spread. Mainly, because the guy we have is doing a good job as it is.

Good points. All I'm saying is, at this point I'm not looking for someone to be better than Thigpen; just someone who can come in a hopefully compete at the same level if he should get hurt.

jmlamerson
11-15-2008, 06:45 PM
.....how you "can't run a spread in the NFL". Come on, someone indulge me; that's one of my favorites!

And seeing how the Chiefs have proven that this "can't be done"( DCS rolls eyes repeatedly ), I'd say the paradigm regarding a QB prospect has shifted.

Add to that the fact that we need a monster LB for our defense( #58 from USC, and I shall broker NO gruff to the contrary ), as our defense has no game-changers anywhere NEAR the line( and it's time for Donnie Edwards to retire; PAST time actually ), the whole QB -scenario is now open to a much wider field.

Mmmm......who else runs a spread at the college level, and has a QB particularly suited for it, and is a devout student of the game, and can be had as a quality clip-board holder/understudy without the Chiefs giving the house away?

WAIT! Why yes! Of course!


Yes. Yes it is.

We're 0-3 running the spread. Our offense drops off dramatically in the second half after running the spread. Our defense tires out because we don't have a ground game. We're getting by on novelty now - let's see if future teams are as unprepared.

Why don't you wait until the spread actually wins a game before anointing it our offense of the future?

Canada
11-15-2008, 07:00 PM
Yeah, we still suck no matter what. Even when we improve!!

jerhart
11-15-2008, 07:32 PM
We're 0-3 running the spread. Our offense drops off dramatically in the second half after running the spread. Our defense tires out because we don't have a ground game. We're getting by on novelty now - let's see if future teams are as unprepared.

Why don't you wait until the spread actually wins a game before anointing it our offense of the future?

The Thig outplayed Favre, Garcia, and Rivers the past 3 weeks...our D is banged up...and Jamaal Charles was the first back to rush over 100 yards against the bucs D this season. I think we could be 3-0 just as easy as we are 0-3 these last few games...we just have not been gettin the breaks. I mean, the final TD to Laveranues Coles...Lucky.

OTR Chiefs fan
11-15-2008, 08:26 PM
We're 0-3 running the spread. Our offense drops off dramatically in the second half after running the spread. Our defense tires out because we don't have a ground game. We're getting by on novelty now - let's see if future teams are as unprepared.

Why don't you wait until the spread actually wins a game before anointing it our offense of the future?

I have to agree that the spread is a novelty at the moment and only time will tell if it will endure once DCs start to figure it out. Yeah, it's great that the staff has changed their scheme to fit Thigpen's strengths, but do we want to go that route for the future? Just think, how many running QBs are truly successful in this league? Just look at Vick and Vince Young, they're not that good of QBs, they just have great atheletic ability and when pressured tend to rely on their legs instead of using their brains to get them out of trouble. :D

jmlamerson
11-15-2008, 08:53 PM
Yeah, we still suck no matter what. Even when we improve!!

I wasn't saying that! The OP just asked for anyone to give reasons why anyone would slam the spread offense. I listed several.

Anyway, it may turn out great. I just want to see how it holds up over the rest of the seaon before saying that it's an effective offense in the NFL. Same with Thigpen - looking good right now, but let's wait until we win some games before anointing our problems fixed.

Darth CarlSatan
11-15-2008, 09:37 PM
We're 0-3 running the spread. Our offense drops off dramatically in the second half after running the spread. Our defense tires out because we don't have a ground game. We're getting by on novelty now - let's see if future teams are as unprepared.

Why don't you wait until the spread actually wins a game before anointing it our offense of the future?

This was a trick post, and you fell for it.

Item Number One:
We do not, will not, and should not run a True Spread. What we should do, and hopefully will do, is create a hybrid-scheme between the current passing game, and a more traditional ground game-based offense.
Now that does NOT mean a return to the "let's hand it off to LJ and watch him get stuffed at the line 10 times a game".
What YOU call "novelty" on the part of our current offensive scheme, I call "It's About God D*med Time Some Creativity Landed Up In The Coord-Box", and that approach had better continue if we want to develop a Championship Level, NFL Football Team.
You DO THIS, because when the day comes that you finally DO possess an Offensive Line that doesn't pull out the old Aircraft Carrier "hand-held traffic controllers" and wave 'em on through( your opposition on the defensive line ), you've got a Quarterback, Running Back(s), and Receivers that are trained to adapt and pull rabbits out of their butts when things break down.

Item Number Two:
I can't imagine why our "Defense is getting tired", when the only time they're producing is in Red-Zone Stands.
That can change however, if the Powers That Be in charge of drafting this year tune about 70% of the Fan Base out, and drop this UTTER NONSENSE about picking up a First Round Quarterback, and instead pick up A PREMIUM LINEBACKER.
WE.....NEED.....A.....PASS.....RUSH; Learn it, Live it, Love it.
One more time:
WE.....NEED.....A.....PASS.....RUSH.

And after that, THEN get your QB understudy to hold the clipboard.
And then after that, please get this team, myself, and Chiefs31 some LINEMEN.

Nel Toille
11-15-2008, 09:42 PM
I think teams are having trouble against our spread right now because we're simply the only team that runs it. I notice it's working against more veteran teams too. If you think about it, scout teams have to mimic the spread in practice and I don't think a lot of teams have the players to run it like we do. I think Chan will eventually have to figure out a way to mix in the spread with the pro-style in order to put together a successful four-quarter game plan. If we can get up early in the first half with the spread (like we've been doing) and run the pro-style in the second half with Larry Johnson playing the role of a "closer" then I think we can be more successful.

Darth CarlSatan
11-15-2008, 10:17 PM
I think teams are having trouble against our spread right now because we're simply the only team that runs it. I notice it's working against more veteran teams too. If you think about it, scout teams have to mimic the spread in practice and I don't think a lot of teams have the players to run it like we do. I think Chan will eventually have to figure out a way to mix in the spread with the pro-style in order to put together a successful four-quarter game plan. If we can get up early in the first half with the spread (like we've been doing) and run the pro-style in the second half with Larry Johnson playing the role of a "closer" then I think we can be more successful.

Solid.
And absolutely correct. It's a hard road to travel, but we're not making a playoff run this year, or probably even NEXT year; WE NEED TO BECOME THAT OFFENSE THAT YOU DON'T SEE COMING.
To have players with multiple specialties. Your opposition can watch the film, they can adjust their defense on the field, but they CAN NOT KNOW WHAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN BASED ON WHO, OR HOW YOU LINE UP.
It's Unpredictable, Super-Thick Playbook, Double-Agent Offense.
And it's what we should be developing the rest of this year and all of next year in preparation for a 2010 play-off run.

Great Job, and Rep ADDED!

jmlamerson
11-15-2008, 11:54 PM
This was a trick post, and you fell for it.

Item Number One:
We do not, will not, and should not run a True Spread. What we should do, and hopefully will do, is create a hybrid-scheme between the current passing game, and a more traditional ground game-based offense.
Now that does NOT mean a return to the "let's hand it off to LJ and watch him get stuffed at the line 10 times a game".
What YOU call "novelty" on the part of our current offensive scheme, I call "It's About God D*med Time Some Creativity Landed Up In The Coord-Box", and that approach had better continue if we want to develop a Championship Level, NFL Football Team.
You DO THIS, because when the day comes that you finally DO possess an Offensive Line that doesn't pull out the old Aircraft Carrier "hand-held traffic controllers" and wave 'em on through( your opposition on the defensive line ), you've got a Quarterback, Running Back(s), and Receivers that are trained to adapt and pull rabbits out of their butts when things break down.

Item Number Two:
I can't imagine why our "Defense is getting tired", when the only time they're producing is in Red-Zone Stands.
That can change however, if the Powers That Be in charge of drafting this year tune about 70% of the Fan Base out, and drop this UTTER NONSENSE about picking up a First Round Quarterback, and instead pick up A PREMIUM LINEBACKER.
WE.....NEED.....A.....PASS.....RUSH; Learn it, Live it, Love it.
One more time:
WE.....NEED.....A.....PASS.....RUSH.

And after that, THEN get your QB understudy to hold the clipboard.
And then after that, please get this team, myself, and Chiefs31 some LINEMEN.

We've invested extemely high picks on this defensive line over the past three years. Everyone is excusing Herm by saying that he needs time to develop these picks (Dorsey, Hali, Turk, and Tank - our supposed front four). Do you really think any rookie lineman he picks will do any good?

Darth CarlSatan
11-16-2008, 12:25 AM
We've invested extemely high picks on this defensive line over the past three years. Everyone is excusing Herm by saying that he needs time to develop these picks (Dorsey, Hali, Turk, and Tank - our supposed front four). Do you really think any rookie lineman he picks will do any good?

Then don't let Herm do the picking. What are we supposed to do, just roll over and continue with a mediocre line on both sides of the ball?

Look, I won't sit here and try to tell you I know every aspect of the science of a good defensive or offensive line, because it's really not my favorite or major area of study.
But if you look at posts not just here, but all over Gods Creation, you will see:
"The Line Sucks"
A million times plus one. So I'm going on other peoples knowledge on that aspect of our team.
What I DO KNOW, and what I've already said, is that we have no consistent pass-rush, and we need that a hell of a lot more than we need "Fan X's QB-Draft Wet Dream" to come true.

I'm not against drafting a good QB understudy if the cards roll right. But blowing your whole load on Stafford, when we already have a QB that even Tony Gonzales has called "The Real Deal"???
Idiocy. And I pray to Sanity that it doesn't happen.

jmlamerson
11-16-2008, 02:00 PM
Then don't let Herm do the picking. What are we supposed to do, just roll over and continue with a mediocre line on both sides of the ball?

Look, I won't sit here and try to tell you I know every aspect of the science of a good defensive or offensive line, because it's really not my favorite or major area of study.
But if you look at posts not just here, but all over Gods Creation, you will see:
"The Line Sucks"
A million times plus one. So I'm going on other peoples knowledge on that aspect of our team.
What I DO KNOW, and what I've already said, is that we have no consistent pass-rush, and we need that a hell of a lot more than we need "Fan X's QB-Draft Wet Dream" to come true.

I'm not against drafting a good QB understudy if the cards roll right. But blowing your whole load on Stafford, when we already have a QB that even Tony Gonzales has called "The Real Deal"???
Idiocy. And I pray to Sanity that it doesn't happen.

So, would you agree with me that perhaps our pash rush is something that we should look to fix in FA, not the draft? That way, we get away from DL picks that go through the Herm Edwards learning curve, and we can focus on building our OL, drafting a QB and WR, and in general we avoid the pit that seems to be our defensive picks in the Herm Edwards era.

Darth CarlSatan
11-16-2008, 04:15 PM
So, would you agree with me that perhaps our pash rush is something that we should look to fix in FA, not the draft? That way, we get away from DL picks that go through the Herm Edwards learning curve, and we can focus on building our OL, drafting a QB and WR, and in general we avoid the pit that seems to be our defensive picks in the Herm Edwards era.

Herm personally selected Carr, and probably Flowers as well, but he SHOULD know something about picking a good CB.

I'm not against FA, but for every one we sign to a key position, we should be looking for an in-house, long-term guy for development.

jmlamerson
11-16-2008, 04:20 PM
Herm personally selected Carr, and probably Flowers as well, but he SHOULD know something about picking a good CB.

I'm not against FA, but for every one we sign to a key position, we should be looking for an in-house, long-term guy for development.

I'm not trying to sound too critical of Flowers and Carr, but they aren't exactly in the running for being in top 10 defensive rookies of the year. They are doing as well as can be expected, but I'm not ready to put them in the win column yet.

Every defender we have, excepting DJ and Donnie, are in-house long term development guys. Signing vets over them will force guys like Tank, Turk, Hali, Thomas, etc. to fight for their jobs. Because they aren't exactly getting it done on the field.