So you want Herm out?

[Three7s]

Of course you do, but what's the point? You can complain all you want, do you really think the upper management of the Chiefs care? Keep crying if it makes you feel better, but he's gonna stay and that's that. If you REALLY want him gone and want to let the Chiefs know about it, then go to the Bills game, next week, and make a HUGE sign with Fire Carl and Herm written on it so big that maybe even Clark would get the message!

Not like it would work, but it would sure be funny to see!

[jmlamerson]

Of course you do, but what's the point? You can complain all you want, do you really think the upper management of the Chiefs care? Keep crying if it makes you feel better, but he's gonna stay and that's that. If you REALLY want him gone and want to let the Chiefs know about it, then go to the Bills game, next week, and make a HUGE sign with Fire Carl and Herm written on it so big that maybe even Clark would get the message!

Not like it would work, but it would sure be funny to see!

Complaining about Herm does make me feel better, as I hope to convince the few remaining adherents on this board that they have put their eggs in the wrong basket. Once I've convinced everyone here on this board that Herm is awful, I think the rest will fall into place.

I posted this elesewhere, but ssome facts:

We know that our offense can score 20-30 points a week.

We know that our offense has drastically improved with a new QB and new OC over last year's QB and OC.

We know that our defense has fallen apart with the same DC and losing our best defensive player.

We know that Herm Edwards was brought in to play ball control offense and make the defense stronger. We know he has abandoned the first and failed miserably at the second. We know that he selected Croyle and Solari as his QB and OC last year.

We know that the past three Chiefs drafts have produced nine of the starters that Herm uses on defense (excepting DJ and Donnie).

We know that the past three Chiefs drafts have produced only two of the starters the Chiefs use on offense (Bowe, who Herm didn't want, and Albert - Cottam and Charles are backups).

Perhaps, the inference that we can take is that Herm Edwards is the major component holding this team back.

[hardcorechiefsfan]

It doesn't really matter what we want, Carl and Clark see how it seems that Hermie is succeeding even with a losing record. Hermie is here for next season at least.

[greg3564]

Want to effectively express your displeasure to Clark Hunt? Don't buy a single Chiefs piece of merchandise. No shirts, jerseys, hats, ring tones, screen savers...NOTHING! Anything you buy, that is officially licensed by the NFL, goes into Clark Hunt's bank account. I haven't bought one piece of merchandise since last season and will not buy anything until Herm is gone or we actually have a winning season(which won't happen until Herm is gone).

[drstandley31]

What I think will happen is they will let Carl go after this year. But probably not Herm until a new GM is in place and takes the time to understand what's happened here over the past 3 to 5 years. That GM may not be willing to let Herm go the first year's he's here, and have to suffer through a season of $hitty coaching before making that decision. But who knows, maybe a new GM walks in and give the job to Chan. Hey, could happen. Maybe Cowher could be that new GM.

[JMDChiefs58]

Want to see a change in KC. Don't go to the games. If Herm is back next year don't renew your season tickets. An empty stadium will send a message that can't be ignored. I know If I lived in KC I would want to go to every game and support the team, but not going would be better for the team in the long run. Stay home.

[jtandcrew]

Ive been saying for quite awhile now I want Herm and Carl out. I would LOVE to see Cowher come in and take both GM and HC. I also forgot about Brian Billick, which I wouldnt mind seeing him as atleast HC, maybe even give him a shot as GM/HC. Saying that, I dont really see Clark going ahead and making any move at all unless Carl decides to retire. I foresee Clark seeing an improvement despite us losing more games than we did last year. He will say, "Yeah our record is worse but we were competitive with the youngest team in the league. When we went 4-12? We had 1 of the oldest teams in the league. So, im going to see what happens next year." Now, I do not have a crystal ball but I wouldnt be surprised to see most of the coaching staff and front office here 1 more year.

[IlovetheChiefs]

Want to effectively express your displeasure to Clark Hunt? Don't buy a single Chiefs piece of merchandise. No shirts, jerseys, hats, ring tones, screen savers...NOTHING! Anything you buy, that is officially licensed by the NFL, goes into Clark Hunt's bank account. I haven't bought one piece of merchandise since last season and will not buy anything until Herm is gone or we actually have a winning season(which won't happen until Herm is gone).

But one way you can buy all that stuff and not help Clark Hunt is through ebay. That way you are simply buying products from people's houses that have already been purchased. And then you still get to have lots of great Chiefs gear and items that way. :)

[nigeriannightmare]

It doesn't really matter what we want, Carl and Clark see how it seems that Hermie is succeeding even with a losing record. Hermie is here for next season at least.


I think it goes beyond that. Clark said last year he believed what Herm is doing is the best way to get a team competitive for years to come. Rebuilding through the draft and getting every piece of the puzzle put in place. Herm will get to finish his contract out. He is 1-9, 5-21 going to last year and isn't even in the hotseat. I hate to say it, becasue once every piece of the puzzle is there Herm will still be the coach and let's face it he loses more than he wins. Clark carries as much blame as Carl and Herm if you ask me.

[hermhater]

I haven't made up my mind yet.

[theaxeeffect4311]

I think there is a possibility. The reason being that Carl will get rid of Herm before he'll let himself be dethroned. They have to be feeling the pressure because no team should accept a losing record as bad as the Chiefs. The only problem is that Thigpen and Gailey make it look like Herm may not be so bad after all. But when the Chiefs lose a 21 point lead in the game against Tampa Bay, it is obvious the Chiefs has some kind of problem with coaching. I also think Gunther needs to be replaced. Our defense overpursues, doesn't wrap up when they tackle, and can't get pressure on the quarterback or stop the run.

[Big Daddy Tek]

NO MATTER WHAT YOU GUYS THINK OR WANT, HERE IS THE BOTTOMLINE:

Herm Edwards and Carl Petersons contracts both end after next season. Carl has the stadium reconstruction commitment to Lamar Hunt which will be on cruise control by the end of next season. These guys will be gone, but not this year. Talking about it is irrelevant. I happen to like Herms drafts alot more than Dicks. His coaching this year has made me sick to say the least, but I will take another good Herm draft and then watch a good / qualified coach take us all the way with his players! Herm needs to look into being a scout, which is what he started as when the Chiefs hired him originally in the early 90's.

[hermhater]

Lets not get angry guys.

[chief31]

Lets not get angry guys.

Well then, I'll just stay angry, so I don't have to find my way back.

[jmlamerson]

NO MATTER WHAT YOU GUYS THINK OR WANT, HERE IS THE BOTTOMLINE:

Herm Edwards and Carl Petersons contracts both end after next season. Carl has the stadium reconstruction commitment to Lamar Hunt which will be on cruise control by the end of next season. These guys will be gone, but not this year. Talking about it is irrelevant. I happen to like Herms drafts alot more than Dicks. His coaching this year has made me sick to say the least, but I will take another good Herm draft and then watch a good / qualified coach take us all the way with his players! Herm needs to look into being a scout, which is what he started as when the Chiefs hired him originally in the early 90's.

You are delusional. Herm Edwards has yet have anything resembling a good draft. People keep pretending that the guys he drafted who are vastly underachieving merely need time to grow. When in fact the first impression is usually right - his draft picks stink.

At the end of this season, we'll have had Hali, Pollard, Croyle, Webb, and Page (his 2006 draft, not counting Maxey and Stallings) for three years. Any of these guys look like they'll ever be legitimate starters? Maybe Pollard, but he's doing awful in our current defense (the Cover 2 without a pass rush).

At the end of this season, we'll have had Bowe (a pick Herm didn't want), McBride, Tank, Kolby, and Taylor (his 2007 draft, not counting Medlock or Allan) for two full years. Any, except for Bowe (again, who Herm didn't want), look like real NFL starters?

Evaluating Herm's 2008 draft class, two picks (out of thirteen) have made a positive impact - Albert and Carr. I'm willing to wait on Flowers - he's shown flashes when healthy and playing. Charles looks like he may be a good third down back, but he'll never be an every down back - yes we spent a 3rd round pick in a loaded raft on a 3rd down back. Cottam is a cipher right now - people thought Hali'd be good until he lost the best at his position opposite him. I'll wait on Dorsey, even though he looks like a bust. However, Morgan, Franklin, Richardson, Robinson Johnston, and Merritt have shown absolutely nothing. So, for 2008, we have two NFL worthy players, four wait-and-sees, and six who have shown nothing.

What, exactly, do you mean when you say that Herm's had good drafts? And of the players who have made a definite positive impact (Carr, Albert, and Bowe), only one is on defense.

On offense, right now, our starters consist of two Herm draft picks (Albert and Bowe) and a bunch of FAs and pre-Herm picks. Our offense is surprisingly staying competitve.

On defense, right now, our starters consist of nine Herm Edwards draft picks (excepting DJ and Edwards/Williams). Our defense is a sieve.

Do you see the correlation here?

[Big Daddy Tek]

You are delusional. Herm Edwards has yet have anything resembling a good draft. People keep pretending that the guys he drafted who are vastly underachieving merely need time to grow. When in fact the first impression is usually right - his draft picks stink.

At the end of this season, we'll have had Hali, Pollard, Croyle, Webb, and Page (his 2006 draft, not counting Maxey and Stallings) for three years. Any of these guys look like they'll ever be legitimate starters? Maybe Pollard, but he's doing awful in our current defense (the Cover 2 without a pass rush).

At the end of this season, we'll have had Bowe (a pick Herm didn't want), McBride, Tank, Kolby, and Taylor (his 2007 draft, not counting Medlock or Allan) for two full years. Any, except for Bowe (again, who Herm didn't want), look like real NFL starters?

Evaluating Herm's 2008 draft class, two picks (out of thirteen) have made a positive impact - Albert and Carr. I'm willing to wait on Flowers - he's shown flashes when healthy and playing. Charles looks like he may be a good third down back, but he'll never be an every down back - yes we spent a 3rd round pick in a loaded raft on a 3rd down back. Cottam is a cipher right now - people thought Hali'd be good until he lost the best at his position opposite him. I'll wait on Dorsey, even though he looks like a bust. However, Morgan, Franklin, Richardson, Robinson Johnston, and Merritt have shown absolutely nothing. So, for 2008, we have two NFL worthy players, four wait-and-sees, and six who have shown nothing.

What, exactly, do you mean when you say that Herm's had good drafts? And of the players who have made a definite positive impact (Carr, Albert, and Bowe), only one is on defense.

On offense, right now, our starters consist of two Herm draft picks (Albert and Bowe) and a bunch of FAs and pre-Herm picks. Our offense is surprisingly staying competitve.

On defense, right now, our starters consist of nine Herm Edwards draft picks (excepting DJ and Edwards/Williams). Our defense is a sieve.

Do you see the correlation here?
Wow! Dorsey is a bust? Considering it usually takes 2-3 years for a D-lineman to develope (i.e. Mario Williams) man your good at the future stuff. You already know what Charles is. Cottam who has played great for a rookie in limited playing time sucks too right? Pollard is playing awful? And you rip off a whole slew of rookies who havent even played a full year in the league yet, saying they suck. Whos the delusional one? The verdict is out on Flowers? Are we talking about the same Flowers? Page was a great pick in the 7th round! Tamba had 14 sacks his first two years and has been nicked up or out this year. Kolby? Whats wrong with Kolby? Who are you? What are you? Oh wait, hold on. Are you a raiders fan trying to mix things up on a Chiefs forum?

[jmlamerson]

Wow! Dorsey is a bust? Considering it usually takes 2-3 years for a D-lineman to develope (i.e. Mario Williams) man your good at the future stuff. You already know what Charles is. Cottam who has played great for a rookie in limited playing time sucks too right? Pollard is playing awful? And you rip off a whole slew of rookies who havent even played a full year in the league yet, saying they suck. Whos the delusional one? The verdict is out on Flowers? Are we talking about the same Flowers? Page was a great pick in the 7th round! Tamba had 14 sacks his first two years and has been nicked up or out this year. Kolby? Whats wrong with Kolby? Who are you? What are you? Oh wait, hold on. Are you a raiders fan trying to mix things up on a Chiefs forum?

It does take a couple years for a D-lineman to develop. But folks like Mario Williams did better than Dorsey has his rookie season. Dorsey's miserable play is one of the reasons our defense is last (or almost last) in the league in almost every category involving the DL (run defense, sacks, etc.). What, exactly, has he shown this season, except that he needs massive improvement?

Flowers did OK for the first seven weeks until his injury. He has shown weaknesses when he's been left one on one in coverage. He may turn out to be a great corner, he may not. He's not one of the best ten defensive rookies in the NFL this year, or anything (although Carr probably is).

Charles is a 3rd down back. He doesn't have the heft to be an every down back. When we tried to give him a full workload, he got hurt. Besides, the fact is that no one in the organization is claiming he'll ever be an every down back. He was drafted to be a speed, change of pace guy (think Leon Washington). Not our RB of the future.

I didn't say Cottam sucks. I said the jury's out. You may want to wait until he starts some games without Tony G. before claiming he'll be a legitimate TE in the NFL.

Pollard is playing awful. He is terrible in coverage, and our whole secondary is being burned. I don't blame him, really. He's just unfit for a defensive scheme, like ours, where he is asked to cover WRs one on one. He isn't doing well this year - give him a new coordinator and scheme and I think he'll improve.

Page sucks. The sooner we get a real FS the better. If I had a nickel for every tackle he missed, or for every long TD he gave up this season, I'd be making LJ money.

Tamba Hali was doing fine against the pass when JA was getting all of the double teams. He isn't fine without JA. He is also worthless against the run. He isn't a guy who would be starting for a winning team.

Kolby is a 3 ypc runner who is out for the year with injury. We could replace him with almost any FA RB.

Look, when I watch a Chiefs game, I see a bunch of young, semi-talented players playing their hearts out for a bad coach. I think every player on this team (excepting LJ) is playing to his potential right now - but most guys don't have the talent.

If it is wrong of me to say our rookie class busted, it's just as wrong of you to say they succeeded. You're saying we had a successful draft, when almost none of the players have contributed positively to this team. You hope they'll turn out - but they've shown nothing.

Over the past three years, the Chiefs have driven off good defensive players (Wilkerson, JA, and K. Mitchell) and spent seven picks in the first three rounds on our defense. Nine of eleven starters on defense are Herm Edwards guys. It's the worst defense in the league. Do you not see a correlation? Herm Edwards is about to take this team to 1-19, which will be the worst record since the expanison Bucs, and you think he's brought talent onto this team?

I'm a Chiefs fan. You know a real one. One who isn't pretending that cr*p is gold.

[PawnshopMarimba]

I see little problem with our secondary, and stand behind Herm's picks.

The pass defense is as porous as it is partly because of injuries, and mostly because of the defensive line's play. Give ANY quarterback in the NFL 10 seconds, and he'll find a receiver every time... even with a pro bowl secondary.

I'll grant you that Hali, and *maybe* even Dorsey could be busts, but the D-line position DOES take a few years to develop. Sorry, it just does for most guys. That being said, I wish we would've acquired a real veteran play maker somewhere on the line to take some of the pressure off the developing talent, and thus the secondary as well... lord knows we had the money.

[jmlamerson]

I see little problem with our secondary, and stand behind Herm's picks.

The pass defense is as porous as it is partly because of injuries, and mostly because of the defensive line's play. Give ANY quarterback in the NFL 10 seconds, and he'll find a receiver every time... even with a pro bowl secondary.

I'll grant you that Hali, and *maybe* even Dorsey could be busts, but the D-line position DOES take a few years to develop. Sorry, it just does for most guys. That being said, I wish we would've acquired a real veteran play maker somewhere on the line to take some of the pressure off the developing talent, and thus the secondary as well... lord knows we had the money.

The only secondary pick I criticized was Page. I admit(ted) Pollard would probably be much more effective in a real defensive sceme and with a real front four. I have no problem with Carr, and Flowers may turn out to be great. I hate Page, and think he's a weak link, but I blame Herm/Gunther more for putting a 7th rounder who can't tackle or cover in at FS. Page would be an OK backup, but we need a real FS at that spot.

DL does take time. It took us four years to groom JA before we ditched him. But (1) Herm said that Dorsey was an impact rookie who would make up for the loss of JA (which is patently untrue, as to both parts); (2) Hali looks massively outmatched without JA on the other side of the ball; (3) our DL is, right now, ranked last in sacks and against the run (they can't rush the passer or defend against the run) - even developing players should be doing better than that; (4) even if they turn out well, it will probably be in their second contract (ala Sims); and (5) I've not seen one play out of Tank, Tyler, Hali, or Dorsey that makes me think they are the future. Or to put (5) another way, these are four high picks and the supposed future of our line. They are playing no better than four undrafted free agents would right now. We'll know a lot more about them in five years, true, but the best you can say right now is that you hope they turn into good players - not that they are good players.

My main complaint is that people are calling Herm's drafts great, when, for all we know, they may be awful. The fact that he's been remaking this team for the past three years, and it's the worst in the league. That people are lionizing Herm's drafting abilities, when he's only hit gold in three picks out of twenty-six. Bill Belichek, Jerry Reese, or Tony Dungy his isn't. Do we have some guys who are doing badly and may turn out well? Yes. Every team does. But we don't say that someone drafts well because of it.

[chief31]

I see little problem with our secondary, and stand behind Herm's picks.



Then you must be an opposing WR? That's all I have seen behind them this season. :lol:

[Chiefster]

Of course you do, but what's the point? You can complain all you want, do you really think the upper management of the Chiefs care? Keep crying if it makes you feel better, but he's gonna stay and that's that. If you REALLY want him gone and want to let the Chiefs know about it, then go to the Bills game, next week, and make a HUGE sign with Fire Carl and Herm written on it so big that maybe even Clark would get the message!

Not like it would work, but it would sure be funny to see!

:sign0153: You mean Clark Hunt doesn't read our message board???