For all non-believers

[section311]

Two words. Miami Dolphins. I hate the Dolphins more than anyone, but I have to respect what they have accomplished so far this year. And where did it start? Management and coaching. I doubt 1 in 20 football fans knew who Tony Sparano was at this time last year. but they know who he is now. Bring in a good GM, and a good coach, and the wins will follow.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

Yea, I'm not sure Parcell's will be coming here any time soon!

[slc chief]

Two words. Miami Dolphins. I hate the Dolphins more than anyone, but I have to respect what they have accomplished so far this year. And where did it start? Management and coaching. I doubt 1 in 20 football fans knew who Tony Sparano was at this time last year. but they know who he is now. Bring in a good GM, and a good coach, and the wins will follow.

what really stands out is that they are doing it with pretty much the same players that they had last year besides pennington.and long but they are without thomas and taylor. it sure shows what good coaching and managment will do for you hint hint clark

[tornadospotter]

what really stands out is that they are doing it with pretty much the same players that they had last year besides pennington.and long but they are without thomas and taylor. it sure shows what good coaching and managment will do for you hint hint clark
:11: Take a hint here clark!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bearson]

I have defended Herm for a long time but when a team goes 5-22 in two seasons....sorry Herm but please gtfo by next year.

[Seek]

Two words. Miami Dolphins. I hate the Dolphins more than anyone, but I have to respect what they have accomplished so far this year. And where did it start? Management and coaching. I doubt 1 in 20 football fans knew who Tony Sparano was at this time last year. but they know who he is now. Bring in a good GM, and a good coach, and the wins will follow.

I don't know who Tony Sparano is still and since it does not appear that Clark is going to bring in an new GM or HC... There isn't much to believe in at this point in time, unless Cal Berkley draws Herm away from us.

[garciakcfan]

they have a veteran qb that can manage a game... DUH!!!!!! thats the real difference

[chief31]

they have a veteran qb that can manage a game... DUH!!!!!! thats the real difference

And yet we can't win when our QB is playing well. Are you sure there isn't anything more to it?

[Three7s]

And yet we can't win when our QB is playing well. Are you sure there isn't anything more to it?
Not according to garcia!

[Seek]

they have a veteran qb that can manage a game... DUH!!!!!! thats the real difference

That is not the case in Atlanta... And shoudl that be your response... It is Herms fault for not getting that VERY VET QB?

[jmlamerson]

Two words. Miami Dolphins. I hate the Dolphins more than anyone, but I have to respect what they have accomplished so far this year. And where did it start? Management and coaching. I doubt 1 in 20 football fans knew who Tony Sparano was at this time last year. but they know who he is now. Bring in a good GM, and a good coach, and the wins will follow.

Also, in 2008 the Dolphins signed for their DL Randy Starks (25 yo) to a long-term deal. They also traded for Jason Ferguson (DT). They also drafted DE Phillip Merling with their second round pick and DE Kendall Langford with a third round pick.

In 2008, for their OL, they signed starting LG Justin Smiley (27 yo) to a long-term deal. They drafted starting LT Jake Long with the number one pick and drafted a good backup in OG Shawn Murphy with a 4th round pick.

They signed a veteran QB and drafted a young QB to learn behind him.

They signed a good coach who knows how to win in the trenches.

They made several cost effective signings in the LB and seconday.

That was only in 2008. In 2007, they drafted starting C Samson Satele. In 2004, they drafted starting RT Vernon Carey.

This is a team that is finding success in a division much more difficult than our because they built their lines, signed a veteran QB, signed a good coach, and signed good vets relatively cheap.

In short, they rebuilt a team how you are supposed to rebuild a team.

[garciakcfan]

That is not the case in Atlanta... And shoudl that be your response... It is Herms fault for not getting that VERY VET QB?

No, but it goes back to the play of your QB thats the main point and Miami happens to have a veteran... Why do you constantly take everything out of context???? Nobody thought with Matt Cassel that the pats would compete but they dont put him in bad spots and they force him to manage the game and look how he has progressed this year..

[jmlamerson]

No, but it goes back to the play of your QB thats the main point and Miami happens to have a veteran... Why do you constantly take everything out of context???? Nobody thought with Matt Cassel that the pats would compete but they dont put him in bad spots and they force him to manage the game and look how he has progressed this year..

The Pats have great WRs, a great coach, and a great OL. The Chiefs have decent WRs, a terrible coach, and a terrible OL.

Do you think this may be the big difference between 1-10 and 7-4?

[garciakcfan]

well, if you have a qb that can manage a game and not turn it over a lot I dont care who you are.. Better example... Joe Flacco for the ravens.. This team is in the hunt because of this guy... And they have had a great defense for the past 8 years and they had a horrible year last year with a good d and horrible qb... Come at me with something better than that son.... As the Qb goes the team goes its as simple as that

[jmlamerson]

well, if you have a qb that can manage a game and not turn it over a lot I dont care who you are.. Better example... Joe Flacco for the ravens.. This team is in the hunt because of this guy... And they have had a great defense for the past 8 years and they had a horrible year last year with a good d and horrible qb... Come at me with something better than that son.... As the Qb goes the team goes its as simple as that

No, that isn't correct. Teams with bad offensive lines and bad defensive lines lose. Teams with good offensive lines and good defensive lines win.

The Ravens have invested heavily in their lines and they are winning. The Falcons have invested heavily in their lines and they are winning. The Dolphins have invested hevaily in their lines and they are winning.

The Chiefs have ignored the OL problems for the past three years, content to let bad players run the C, RG, and RT positions. The have drafted DL, but very poorly. And they are losing.

Look at the Titans this year. Do you think they are winning because Kerry Collins is doing great? He looks great because he has a great OL in front of him.

Do you think Matt Cassel would be so great without the Pats OL? Look how badly Brady did when the Giants figured the Pats OL out.

Eli Manning was second rate until the Giants buolt their lines up.

The Colts build their lines up every draft.

The Raiders, Lions, Chiefs, and 49rs have ignored the line problems, or they have drafted very poorly for their lines, and they are losing.

Look, the Chiefs will never be good until they build their lines up. Ever. It doesn't matter who our QB is.

[Bike]

Our offense has been the ONLY bright spot for the Chiefs this season. Defense, special teams, coaching, scouting, conditioning, and a gm/owner that cares more about profit than winning have sunk this team to its current 1-19 record. And to think Thig could manage to score any points at all with this ol is amazing in itself.
Dammit, we have to rebuild........yet again.
From the top down. Thig is the least of our problems...

[Three7s]

No, that isn't correct. Teams with bad offensive lines and bad defensive lines lose. Teams with good offensive lines and good defensive lines win.

The Ravens have invested heavily in their lines and they are winning. The Falcons have invested heavily in their lines and they are winning. The Dolphins have invested hevaily in their lines and they are winning.

The Chiefs have ignored the OL problems for the past three years, content to let bad players run the C, RG, and RT positions. The have drafted DL, but very poorly. And they are losing.

Look at the Titans this year. Do you think they are winning because Kerry Collins is doing great? He looks great because he has a great OL in front of him.

Do you think Matt Cassel would be so great without the Pats OL? Look how badly Brady did when the Giants figured the Pats OL out.

Eli Manning was second rate until the Giants buolt their lines up.

The Colts build their lines up every draft.

The Raiders, Lions, Chiefs, and 49rs have ignored the line problems, or they have drafted very poorly for their lines, and they are losing.

Look, the Chiefs will never be good until they build their lines up. Ever. It doesn't matter who our QB is.
Agreed with all, but I still think Eli is waaaaay overrated!

[garciakcfan]

hey im with ya on the controlling the line of scrimmage.. But we are talking about qb play right?? I dont think atlanta made any big o line signing and they had horrible qb play last year, same with the ravens.. They obviously go hand in hand.. But the qb has to make all the right decisions... And yes about the titans... Do i think vince young would be having the same success, hell no.... Collins is the reason they are having success.. The buffalo bills had one of the best o-lines last year and went 7-9 why?? Because of a young inexperienced QB

[chief31]

No, but it goes back to the play of your QB thats the main point and Miami happens to have a veteran... Why do you constantly take everything out of context???? Nobody thought with Matt Cassel that the pats would compete but they dont put him in bad spots and they force him to manage the game and look how he has progressed this year..

I did. Why wouldn't they? QBs are over-rated.


hey im with ya on the controlling the line of scrimmage.. But we are talking about qb play right?? I dont think atlanta made any big o line signing and they had horrible qb play last year, same with the ravens.. They obviously go hand in hand.. But the qb has to make all the right decisions... And yes about the titans... Do i think vince young would be having the same success, hell no.... Collins is the reason they are having success.. The buffalo bills had one of the best o-lines last year and went 7-9 why?? Because of a young inexperienced QB

They have drafted, over the past two drafts, a first round OT and a second round OG.

[jmlamerson]

hey im with ya on the controlling the line of scrimmage.. But we are talking about qb play right?? I dont think atlanta made any big o line signing and they had horrible qb play last year, same with the ravens.. They obviously go hand in hand.. But the qb has to make all the right decisions... And yes about the titans... Do i think vince young would be having the same success, hell no.... Collins is the reason they are having success.. The buffalo bills had one of the best o-lines last year and went 7-9 why?? Because of a young inexperienced QB

Altlanta drafted LT first round this year. The rest of the positions were already filled.

Collins is not the reason the Titans are winning. Dilfer was not the reason the Ravens won the SB. Brad Johnson was not the reason the Bucs won their SB. Eli Manning was not the reason the Giants won the SB.

Those guys all help(ed). They played a conservative, ball control offense that was helped by terrific defenses. They were all 50th percentile QBs and were replaceable.

Bad QBs always bring down a team (Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller especially), but QBs do not win with bad OL (see Brady in the Super Bowl for the best example). And a good OL can make a QB look good.

[garciakcfan]

Altlanta drafted LT first round this year. The rest of the positions were already filled.

Collins is not the reason the Titans are winning. Dilfer was not the reason the Ravens won the SB. Brad Johnson was not the reason the Bucs won their SB. Eli Manning was not the reason the Giants won the SB.

Those guys all help(ed). They played a conservative, ball control offense that was helped by terrific defenses. They were all 50th percentile QBs and were replaceable.

Bad QBs always bring down a team (Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller especially), but QBs do not win with bad OL (see Brady in the Super Bowl for the best example). And a good OL can make a QB look good.



Who is this guy and where did he come from.... Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!:sign0104:

[jmlamerson]

Who is this guy and where did he come from.... Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!:sign0104:
Ah, you're one of those that move to insults when you lose an argument. I get it.

And as I am now a kindler, gentler spirit, I will not respond in kind.

[garciakcfan]

.... Go watch soccer or something and LEAVE!!!!!!

[jmlamerson]

you sir, are an annoying person that has no life.... Go watch soccer or something and LEAVE!!!!!!

You still haven't answered anyone's question. The Chiefs have three bright points this whole miserable season:

1. Gailey looks like a great OC
2. Thigpen looks like the real deal at QB
3. Our skill offensive players (Bradley, Gonzo, Albert, and Bradley) are looking respectable

Almost everyone can agree on that. For arguments that are poor at best you have gone off on Thigpen. You are oblivious to numbers, gametape, or the fact that even without turnovers we still lose by six.

[Canada]

You still haven't answered anyone's question. The Chiefs have three bright points this whole miserable season:

1. Gailey looks like a great OC
2. Thigpen looks like the real deal at QB
3. Our skill offensive players (Bradley, Gonzo, Albert, and Bradley) are looking respectable

Almost everyone can agree on that. For arguments that are poor at best you have gone off on Thigpen. You are oblivious to numbers, gametape, or the fact that even without turnovers we still lose by six.

I'm not taking sides, but if we did not turn the ball over, we may have scored some points too. You take 17 from one team but you assume that all we would do is punt it away. If we score 1 TD on any of those turnovers then we win my one. Fact is, it's all speculation. I think all garcia is saying is that we should give Gray a shot as well and see what we are going into next season with. I don't want any more experiments so why not get it out of the way this season. As far as Thigpen goes, I like him, but one of the big knocks everyone had on Brodie is that he never won and NFL game and no one ever made any excuses for him, but Thigpen has not won one either. I would not mind seeing what Gray can do, but I don't want him to replace Thig. I say we put him in the second half of the Raiders game when we are already blowing them out.

[Three7s]

Who is this guy and where did he come from.... Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!:sign0104:
You can argue with him all you want, but he's right on the nose. Also, I can't tell what you're asking, but if it's the name of the LT that the Falcons drafted, that would be Sam Baker.

[tornadospotter]

I like Thig, but I would like to see what Gray can do for us also. We need to know what we have.

[garciakcfan]

You can argue with him all you want, but he's right on the nose. Also, I can't tell what you're asking, but if it's the name of the LT that the Falcons drafted, that would be Sam Baker.

what one rookie lineman to solidify a line?? so they had to have been decent the year before right??

[garciakcfan]

I'm not taking sides, but if we did not turn the ball over, we may have scored some points too. You take 17 from one team but you assume that all we would do is punt it away. If we score 1 TD on any of those turnovers then we win my one. Fact is, it's all speculation. I think all garcia is saying is that we should give Gray a shot as well and see what we are going into next season with. I don't want any more experiments so why not get it out of the way this season. As far as Thigpen goes, I like him, but one of the big knocks everyone had on Brodie is that he never won and NFL game and no one ever made any excuses for him, but Thigpen has not won one either. I would not mind seeing what Gray can do, but I don't want him to replace Thig. I say we put him in the second half of the Raiders game when we are already blowing them out.

OMG there is a heaven... Someone who finally understands what im trying to say without arguing and taking things out of context..... Thank you canada and tornado..

[jmlamerson]

I'm not taking sides, but if we did not turn the ball over, we may have scored some points too. You take 17 from one team but you assume that all we would do is punt it away. If we score 1 TD on any of those turnovers then we win my one. Fact is, it's all speculation. I think all garcia is saying is that we should give Gray a shot as well and see what we are going into next season with. I don't want any more experiments so why not get it out of the way this season. As far as Thigpen goes, I like him, but one of the big knocks everyone had on Brodie is that he never won and NFL game and no one ever made any excuses for him, but Thigpen has not won one either. I would not mind seeing what Gray can do, but I don't want him to replace Thig. I say we put him in the second half of the Raiders game when we are already blowing them out.

True. Could we all agree, though, that at least for the four games preceding this one (Jets, Bucs, Chargers, and Saints) that it was our defense, and not Thigpen, to blame for our losses, as Thigpen only made on turnover, in garbage time against the Saints? Can we also agree that as average-to-bad as Thigpen was this week, the defense was a whole lot worse?


I say we put him in the second half of the Raiders game when we are already blowing them out.

HA! Sounds good.

[Sn@keIze]

I like Thig, but I would like to see what Gray can do for us also. We need to know what we have.NO way! If it aint broke, dont fix it. Thigpen is doing his part and then some. Sure he had more of a rough go this last game...but hes trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t, and hes doing a damn good job.

Gray will get his chance preseason

[Three7s]

No no, let's play along with them and put Gray in. Nothing better than having an unstable position as the leader of the offense calling the shots, eh? Amazing, our offense starts to gel and gets really rolling and people want to put in Gray, unbelievable.

[garciakcfan]

Do you really think he's the future??? Ill eat that crow happily if it turns out that way...

[Sn@keIze]

thats what pisses me off most about this org.

they dont keep whats working and stay with what isnt.

#1 offense for 5 years...Hey I know, lets get rid of Al Saunders. Our D is terrible...Hmmmm.....lets stay with the Gunn.

[Sn@keIze]

Do you really think he's the future??? Ill eat that crow happily if it turns out that way...
Tom Brady, Jared Allen, Marques Colsten.... there are plenty players out there who didnt come out of College high and mighty. If Thig came out a high pick you would be singing a diff tune. For christ sake, Action speaks! And Thig is speaking loud.

[Seek]

No, but it goes back to the play of your QB thats the main point and Miami happens to have a veteran... Why do you constantly take everything out of context???? Nobody thought with Matt Cassel that the pats would compete but they dont put him in bad spots and they force him to manage the game and look how he has progressed this year..

Because it is a team sport. There is more factors to the Chiefs losing than Thigpen, yet I think you are failing to even care. He has done everything you could ask a VET QB to do 4 out of the last 5 weeks yet, the TEAM is still finding ways to lose. Be it a missed extra point, poor defense, poor 2 point conversion play, dropped balls, muffed punts.. ETC...

I understand you have some uniformed biased opinion of him. What more are you expecting from a rookie QB who has played 6 games with a pathetic offensive line, defense and special team. Seriously.

Last I checked the Chiefs were losing by much bigger margines before Thigpen even started to play well.

[tornadospotter]

NO way! If it ain't broke, dint fix it. Pigpen is doing his part and then some. Sure he had more of a rough go this last game...but hes trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t, and hes doing a damn good job.

Gray will get his chance preseason


No no, let's play along with them and put Gray in. Nothing better than having an unstable position as the leader of the offense calling the shots, eh? Amazing, our offense starts to gel and gets really rolling and people want to put in Gray, unbelievable.


I am not calling for Thig to be replaced by Gray. I am a Thig fan. I just saying that with the remaining games, it would not hurt to give Gray some playing time. We need to know if we need to shop for QB's in the off season, or draft one, or if we are set. I personally do not think we need to draft a QB, as we need to draft other positions first.

[Seek]

Tom Brady, Jared Allen, Marques Colsten.... there are plenty players out there who didnt come out of College high and mighty. If Thig came out a high pick you would be singing a diff tune. For christ sake, Action speaks! And Thig is speaking loud.

Trent Green, Romo, Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, etcc... The kid has played 6 games, and people are exepecting a pro-bowler. Unfreaking real.

[Sn@keIze]

Because it is a team sport. There is more factors to the Chiefs losing than Thigpen, yet I think you are failing to even care. He has done everything you could ask a VET QB to do 4 out of the last 5 weeks yet, the TEAM is still finding ways to lose. Be it a missed extra point, poor defense, poor 2 point conversion play, dropped balls, muffed punts.. ETC...

I understand you have some uniformed biased opinion of him. What more are you expecting from a rookie QB who has played 6 games with a pathetic offensive line, defense and special team. Seriously.

Last I checked the Chiefs were losing by much bigger margines before Thigpen even started to play well.
Read my mind.

Every position feeds off each other. Which is why I likeThig. What could he do if he had all day if this is what he can do now.

The same wiht the D. A DBs best friend is a good DL and pass rush. I am impressed with our 2ndary considering they play with argueably the worst pass rush in NFL history.....thats right I said it..in NFL history.

[jmlamerson]

I am not calling for Thig to be replaced by Gray. I am a Thig fan. I just saying that with the remaining games, it would not hurt to give Gray some playing time. We need to know if we need to shop for QB's in the off season, or draft one, or if we are set. I personally do not think we need to draft a QB, as we need to draft other positions first.

Wouldn't it make more sense to wait for preseason to see if Gray can be our 3QB, or if we need someone else? Our 2QB next year will either be another vet, or a rookie, not Gray.

Even if Gray went 3-2 to close out the season, no one thinks he'll be our QB of the future. Isn't it better to give Thigpen the shot, see if he can pull out a game or two, and at least see if we can count on him to start next year, if not beyond?

[Sn@keIze]

We need to win. Salvage some pride. Not experiment right now.

[jmlamerson]

Read my mind.

Every position feeds off each other. Which is why I likeThig. What could he do if he had all day if this is what he can do now.

The same wiht the D. A DBs best friend is a good DL and pass rush. I am impressed with our 2ndary considering they play with argueably the worst pass rush in NFL history.....thats right I said it..in NFL history.

I don't think it's arguable right now. We have six sacks right now. Two from our LOLB (DJ), one from our backup DE (McBride), one from our starting DE (Boone), one from our 1DT (Dorsey), and one from our 2DT (Ron Edwards). We are on pace to finish the season with nine sacks altogether. The record is 11, and that is from a strike shortened year.

And our front four are all high Herm pick. I pray we don't waste another high pick this year down the Herm Edwards defensive drain of doom.

[Seek]

I don't think it's arguable right now. We have six sacks right now. Two from our LOLB (DJ), one from our backup DE (McBride), one from our starting DE (Boone), one from our 1DT (Dorsey), and one from our 2DT (Ron Edwards). We are on pace to finish the season with nine sacks altogether. The record is 11, and that is from a strike shortened year.

And our front four are all high Herm pick. I pray we don't waste another high pick this year down the Herm Edwards defensive drain of doom.

One of those sacks was Jeff Garcia losing his footing and falling a foot short of the line of scrimmage.

So we really only earned 5.

[Sn@keIze]

I don't think it's arguable right now. We have six sacks right now. Two from our LOLB (DJ), one from our backup DE (McBride), one from our starting DE (Boone), one from our 1DT (Dorsey), and one from our 2DT (Ron Edwards). We are on pace to finish the season with nine sacks altogether. The record is 11, and that is from a strike shortened year.

And our front four are all high Herm pick. I pray we don't waste another high pick this year down the Herm Edwards defensive drain of doom.







OH god, a strike year? Why did you have to tell me that? Isnt the worst 13 in a full year?

But b4 herm.......look at Sims. Hmmmmm whats something Sims has in common. how bout the fact that they were all under the Gunn. But at the same time. Gunn was pretty successful in Tennessee. So I think Herm is primary blame in the D calls. The schemes are soooo predictable.

Tamba, Simms, Dorsey..........we spend so much on DL in the draft that its GOTTA be coaching.

[Chiefster]

Two words. Miami Dolphins. I hate the Dolphins more than anyone, but I have to respect what they have accomplished so far this year. And where did it start? Management and coaching. I doubt 1 in 20 football fans knew who Tony Sparano was at this time last year. but they know who he is now. Bring in a good GM, and a good coach, and the wins will follow.

This is what Chiefs fans have been saying for years.

[tornadospotter]

This is what Chiefs fans have been saying for years.
:11: Start with the GM, the rest will follow!

[Chiefster]

:11: Start with the GM, the rest will follow!

Yep!

[nigeriannightmare]

The Pats have great WRs, a great coach, and a great OL. The Chiefs have decent WRs, a terrible coach, and a terrible OL.

Do you think this may be the big difference between 1-10 and 7-4?

Not to mention 3 superbowl wins, 1 loss, and a dynasty.

The elite teams are elite for a reason, it all starts with management, carl, clrak, and herm were all aptly named Larry,Curly, and Moe.

[nigeriannightmare]

NO way! If it aint broke, dont fix it. Thigpen is doing his part and then some. Sure he had more of a rough go this last game...but hes trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t, and hes doing a damn good job.

Gray will get his chance preseason

A rough go, 3 TD's and 2 picks, that's a typical Favre game. We still scored 31 points. Leave the Qb a lone for now, He and the OC have someting going.

We need to focus on special teams, and the defense.

[Darth CarlSatan]

they have a veteran qb that can manage a game... DUH!!!!!! thats the real difference

That's not the problem. Thigpen is producing positive results in quite possibly the most God-Awful situation imaginable for a rookie/2cnd year guy.

Thigpen is a STUD.

[arrowheadGoon305]

Two words. Miami Dolphins. I hate the Dolphins more than anyone, but I have to respect what they have accomplished so far this year. And where did it start? Management and coaching. I doubt 1 in 20 football fans knew who Tony Sparano was at this time last year. but they know who he is now. Bring in a good GM, and a good coach, and the wins will follow.HOLD UP...this hate against my dolphins MUST stop.....you wouldnt know how many depressing seasons i had watching them....IM SOOOOO DAMN HAPPY FOR THEMMMM......its kinda strange though how my dolphins start doing GOOD, then my chiefs go DOWNHILL.....aint that a b*t*h

[Chiefster]

HOLD UP...this hate against my dolphins MUST stop.....you wouldnt know how many depressing seasons i had watching them....IM SOOOOO DAMN HAPPY FOR THEMMMM......its kinda strange though how my dolphins start doing GOOD, then my chiefs go DOWNHILL.....aint that a b*t*h


Must it really??? :p

[Darth CarlSatan]

Must it really??? :p

It must! It must! :11: