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texaschief
11-29-2008, 03:35 AM
If he comes out this year and the Chiefs decide to keep going with the spread, they really need to get this guy. He's obviously going to be the best spread QB in the draft and by far the best athlete/QB package available this year if he indeed decides to come out. That might also set up the Chiefs to take Shipley in the later rounds.

According to ESPN, McCoy will look into his draft feedback and could decide to come out early if he's expected to be a "first or second round pick."

Just saying, this could be something to consider if he falls to the 2nd round and if the Chiefs could get an additional 2nd round pick.

jerhart
11-29-2008, 11:22 AM
I would take him in the second round, not the 1st tho. I dont feel we are in desperate need for a qb anymore with Thigpen and Quinn. But I do like the kid and would say take him if he is around the 2nd. Our D is just suffocating right now...

hardcorechiefsfan
11-29-2008, 01:10 PM
I would take him in the second round, not the 1st tho. I dont feel we are in desperate need for a qb anymore with Thigpen and Quinn. But I do like the kid and would say take him if he is around the 2nd. Our D is just suffocating right now...
Who is this Quinn guy? A quarterback? Where/when did we get him?
I'm surprised that Thig has stayed healthy this long. We've gone against some tough defense.

jap1
11-29-2008, 02:31 PM
Who is this Quinn guy? A quarterback? Where/when did we get him?
I'm surprised that Thig has stayed healthy this long. We've gone against some tough defense.

Quinn Gray. He is a QB, played backup in Jax for a season. I believe we signed him the week Brodie and Huard went down, or the week after, cannot remember. He was cut by Indy in the preseason.

OTR Chiefs fan
11-29-2008, 11:36 PM
If he comes out this year and the Chiefs decide to keep going with the spread, they really need to get this guy. He's obviously going to be the best spread QB in the draft and by far the best athlete/QB package available this year if he indeed decides to come out. That might also set up the Chiefs to take Shipley in the later rounds.

According to ESPN, McCoy will look into his draft feedback and could decide to come out early if he's expected to be a "first or second round pick."

Just saying, this could be something to consider if he falls to the 2nd round and if the Chiefs could get an additional 2nd round pick.

Yeah, he'd a worthy second round pick. :D

greg3564
11-30-2008, 01:49 AM
I think McCoy does himself a real disservice not playing his senior year, Heisman or not. Look no further than Vince Young to see why playing your senior year is better than drafting early. My gut tells me he'll play his senior year and not draft. But who knows anymore.

Three7s
11-30-2008, 03:28 AM
I think McCoy does himself a real disservice not playing his senior year, Heisman or not. Look no further than Vince Young to see why playing your senior year is better than drafting early. My gut tells me he'll play his senior year and not draft. But who knows anymore.
I never liked Vince Young, anyways. For the same reasons that I don't like Tebow right now.

theaxeeffect4311
11-30-2008, 03:58 AM
I never liked Vince Young, anyways. For the same reasons that I don't like Tebow right now.

I agree. However, I'll take it a step farther. I hope we don't draft Tebow, McCoy, or Daniels. I don't care if these guys end up having good careers in the NFL, but with all the needs on defense, the Chiefs cannot afford to waste picks on quarterbacks when Thigpen has been doing decent for us.

Raiders:Rule:Cheifs:Suck
11-30-2008, 04:02 AM
Chiefs Suck anyway.. GO RAIDERS!!!

YZILLA
11-30-2008, 05:39 AM
looks like someone found the password to his parents computer .

Big Daddy Tek
11-30-2008, 03:01 PM
If he comes out this year and the Chiefs decide to keep going with the spread, they really need to get this guy. He's obviously going to be the best spread QB in the draft and by far the best athlete/QB package available this year if he indeed decides to come out. That might also set up the Chiefs to take Shipley in the later rounds.

According to ESPN, McCoy will look into his draft feedback and could decide to come out early if he's expected to be a "first or second round pick."

Just saying, this could be something to consider if he falls to the 2nd round and if the Chiefs could get an additional 2nd round pick.
If we could get him in the second round then I would pick him. thats the only way. No way I would spend a first round pick on a QB if the Thigster keeps playin great and getting better. We need a pass rusher before anything else. My dream pick is Michael Johnson DE from Georgia Tech. If we cant get him then the selectiuon should be Michael Oher, the O-Tackle from Ole Miss. For me, Those are the picks, period.

texaschief
11-30-2008, 03:03 PM
I completely agree. I don't think there's going to be a QB in this draft good enough for the CHIEFS in particular, to spend a first round pick on. There's no Manning in this draft.

drstandley31
11-30-2008, 09:25 PM
We''ve got our QB. No reason to set up the environment where 2 guys are fighting for that job, when we have 100 other holes to fill. TT's our guy. Draft OL and DL, and if there's another stud WR out there, grab him. Let's develop Thig into a star. We've already suffered the losses while he learns, why go through that again.

tornadospotter
11-30-2008, 09:33 PM
I do think we should take a look at a QB in the later rounds. Ganz out of Nebraska is worth a look in the later rounds, or if undrafted, then bring in for a look.

Drunker Hillbilly
11-30-2008, 09:47 PM
I would rather have Bradford.

texaschief
11-30-2008, 09:51 PM
I would rather have Bradford.

Bradford will probably be a first round pick (IF he comes out early as a sophomore). With Thigpen's play, I'm not sure the Chiefs' top priority should be a franchise QB. If the Chiefs stay in the top 5 of the draft, they need to either take the best DE or trade down and THEN take a DE and/or LB assuming they don't sign one in FA.

Three7s
11-30-2008, 10:26 PM
Not saying Thigpen is doing bad by any means, but he has looked a bit more human the last couple of games. I do want a QB in the draft, but a DE, MLB, OT, and OG have to come first. Hopefully, we can get some of them via FAs.

texaschief
11-30-2008, 11:12 PM
speaking of MLBs, I think one good kid that we might get as a steal could be Joe Pawelek from Baylor. I've watched him since he played for our chief rival here in San Antonio, Smithson Valley. He's now a Butkus award nominee. I don't think he's going to be the top MLB guy out there, but he could be a guy the Chiefs could target in the later rounds like they did Boomer Grigsby.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-01-2008, 02:38 PM
At some point (I mean except for the last 20 years) you have to draft a franchise QB! Now, if this is what they thought they were doing when they drafted Croyle, we have worse problems than I thought in mngmt!!!!! IMO I think we need to draft that QB now and play in the FA market for defensive players and O linemen. If we continue to draft O linemen, this line will NEVER be any good!

chief31
12-01-2008, 03:09 PM
At some point (I mean except for the last 20 years) you have to draft a franchise QB! Now, if this is what they thought they were doing when they drafted Croyle, we have worse problems than I thought in mngmt!!!!! IMO I think we need to draft that QB now and play in the FA market for defensive players and O linemen. If we continue to draft O linemen, this line will NEVER be any good!

Continue? We have really only drafted one O-lineman.

Bike
12-01-2008, 03:12 PM
Wait till cp and herm is gone before drafting qb. These clowns can't evaluate talent.

Bike
12-01-2008, 03:13 PM
Continue? We have really only drafted one O-lineman.
And he's panned out pretty good so far...

drstandley31
12-01-2008, 03:51 PM
Wait till cp and herm is gone before drafting qb. These clowns can't evaluate talent.
That's the only thing I've ever given Herm credit for. I thought he was OK at evaluation, just suked at coaching. But I'm sure there's 100 arguments either way.

Bike
12-01-2008, 04:32 PM
That's the only thing I've ever given Herm credit for. I thought he was OK at evaluation, just suked at coaching. But I'm sure there's 100 arguments either way.
Well, you can look at our entire defense, which is basically entirely herms, and see how well he can evaluate talent. I just don't see it...

Drunker Hillbilly
12-01-2008, 04:38 PM
Continue? We have really only drafted one O-lineman.
Yes, continue. What do you mean by "really" only drafted one? My point is that they have "continued" to voice the youth movement implying that they will "continue" to draft young players. They also know that the O line is the main issue with this team leading me to believe that they will once again draft an O lineman or two. We will not have a good line if they "continue" to draft O linemen and do not explore the FA market for them.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-01-2008, 04:41 PM
Well, you can look at our entire defense, which is basically entirely herms, and see how well he can evaluate talent. I just don't see it...
I don't care what anyone says and nobody will EVER change my mind that CP is the one evealuating the talent and making the final decisions for this team! It has been that way for 20 years!! Some good, some bad but as of late, they have been terrible overall!!!

Bike
12-01-2008, 04:52 PM
Yes, continue. What do you mean by "really" only drafted one? My point is that they have "continued" to voice the youth movement implying that they will "continue" to draft young players. They also know that the O line is the main issue with this team leading me to believe that they will once again draft an O lineman or two. We will not have a good line if they "continue" to draft O linemen and do not explore the FA market for them.
A solid ol is a must for any nfl team to score points, including the Chiefs. I hope we can keep Waters around for 1 more year and draft someone to groom under him. But I think a combo of fa's and draft is needed because Waters will probably retire and need one or two vets to bring draft choices along...
You may think that ol is the main issue with this team, but the fact is we've been scoring points. I think our d-line is pathetic and needs IMMEDIATE attention. Through fa and the draft. As does the right ol and a replacement for Waters...

Bike
12-01-2008, 04:56 PM
I don't care what anyone says and nobody will EVER change my mind that CP is the one evealuating the talent and making the final decisions for this team! It has been that way for 20 years!! Some good, some bad but as of late, they have been terrible overall!!!
In effect, you're right. Even if Hermie has made some draft decisions, I would think that the King still has to approve them. And the King made the one decision that astounds me. And that was to bring Hermie here to rebuild this team in the 1st place.

jmlamerson
12-01-2008, 05:14 PM
Yes, continue. What do you mean by "really" only drafted one? My point is that they have "continued" to voice the youth movement implying that they will "continue" to draft young players. They also know that the O line is the main issue with this team leading me to believe that they will once again draft an O lineman or two. We will not have a good line if they "continue" to draft O linemen and do not explore the FA market for them.

During the Carl/Herm tenure, the Chiefs have drafted one OL in the first round (Albert), and three in the sixth round (Stallings, Taylor, and Richardson). That's 4 picks out of 26, and only 1 in the first five rounds. We have not been pouring any picks into our OL in any way, shape, or form.

I agree that if we can get Jordan Gross, Marc Colombo, or other decent young(ish) OL in FA, then we should definitely do so instead of relying on the draft. But the major problem without our offense is that we haven't drafted OL (or signed free agents), not that we've drafted too many.

In reality, I trust our offensive brain trust to mold decent players a whole lot more than I trust our defensive brain trust. I think that Gailey and Co. will make rookies work on the line. I don't think Herm/Gunther can make them work on defense.

In my opinion, assuming Waters retires (a safe assumption) and we are unable to attract good, young linemen, then drafting LG, C, RG, and RT with four of our first five picks is almost a necessity.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-01-2008, 08:47 PM
During the Carl/Herm tenure, the Chiefs have drafted one OL in the first round (Albert), and three in the sixth round (Stallings, Taylor, and Richardson). That's 4 picks out of 26, and only 1 in the first five rounds. We have not been pouring any picks into our OL in any way, shape, or form.

I agree that if we can get Jordan Gross, Marc Colombo, or other decent young(ish) OL in FA, then we should definitely do so instead of relying on the draft. But the major problem without our offense is that we haven't drafted OL (or signed free agents), not that we've drafted too many.

In reality, I trust our offensive brain trust to mold decent players a whole lot more than I trust our defensive brain trust. I think that Gailey and Co. will make rookies work on the line. I don't think Herm/Gunther can make them work on defense.

In my opinion, assuming Waters retires (a safe assumption) and we are unable to attract good, young linemen, then drafting LG, C, RG, and RT with four of our first five picks is almost a necessity.
IMO, DRAFTING 4 linemen with in the first 5 picks would be an atrocity!!!!! It would set back whatever positives have came to fruition over the last few weeks. Another thing, your right, 4 out of 26 linemen drafted. How many FA have been signed to those positions?

jmlamerson
12-01-2008, 10:18 PM
IMO, DRAFTING 4 linemen with in the first 5 picks would be an atrocity!!!!! It would set back whatever positives have came to fruition over the last few weeks. Another thing, your right, 4 out of 26 linemen drafted. How many FA have been signed to those positions?

Why would it be an atrocity? How would it be a setback (?!) to draft OL? RB and OL are the two positions on a team that traditionally rookies can fill and be as productive as vets.

3/5 of our starting OL (Niswanger, Jones, and McIntosh) were all free agents. They are, not coincidentally, the weak part of our line. We've signed several free agents (at least a dozen) on the OL - just no good ones. I agree that we should be aggressive in getting the best FA linemen under 30.

But it doesn't make any sense to stick with what we have or to go with over-the-hill guys. If we can't get a Gross, Stacy Andrews, or a Colombo, we need to get linemen from somewhere. Our offense has somehow remained competitive this year, despite not having a lot of talent. Don't imagine we can turn poop into gold a second year.

Besides, if we draft defense, chances are very good we're throwing away the picks. Lets keep improving what's improving through the draft, and let's use our FA money on those positions where we've failed miserably in drafting - our DL and LBs. I'd rather get three new starters in FA on our DL than our OL, wouldn't you?

Bike
12-02-2008, 09:09 AM
Why would it be an atrocity? How would it be a setback (?!) to draft OL? RB and OL are the two positions on a team that traditionally rookies can fill and be as productive as vets.

3/5 of our starting OL (Niswanger, Jones, and McIntosh) were all free agents. They are, not coincidentally, the weak part of our line. We've signed several free agents (at least a dozen) on the OL - just no good ones. I agree that we should be aggressive in getting the best FA linemen under 30.

But it doesn't make any sense to stick with what we have or to go with over-the-hill guys. If we can't get a Gross, Stacy Andrews, or a Colombo, we need to get linemen from somewhere. Our offense has somehow remained competitive this year, despite not having a lot of talent. Don't imagine we can turn poop into gold a second year.

Besides, if we draft defense, chances are very good we're throwing away the picks. Lets keep improving what's improving through the draft, and let's use our FA money on those positions where we've failed miserably in drafting - our DL and LBs. I'd rather get three new starters in FA on our DL than our OL, wouldn't you?
Just because Hermie and the King have failed miserably the last 3 years in evaluating defensive talent doesn't necessarily mean they will fail again. You can't simply give up on drafting defense and inject a busload of FA's and expect some kind of cohesive play next couple of years. Its gotta be a mixture of both. Both sides of the ball..

jmlamerson
12-02-2008, 11:44 AM
Just because Hermie and the King have failed miserably the last 3 years in evaluating defensive talent doesn't necessarily mean they will fail again. You can't simply give up on drafting defense and inject a busload of FA's and expect some kind of cohesive play next couple of years. Its gotta be a mixture of both. Both sides of the ball..

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.

We have massive issues on both sides of the ball, and only seven draft picks (barring trades) this year.

We should (and probably need to) either draft or get free agents for the following positions:

2QB
RB (only if LJ is cut/traded)
LG (assuming Waters retires, and maybe even if he doesn't, as we'll need someone to groom)
C
RG
RT
3WR (if we plan to keep running the spread)
LDE
2DT
RDE
MLB
ROLB
FS
KR/PR

That's six spots on defense, seven on offense, and one on special teams.

Everyone has excused Herm Edwards' massive failures in getting a respectable front four based upon "the learning curve." Do you really want to draft DL this year and listen to more excuses about "the learning curve"? Instead, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to sign good, young free agents at the RDE, LDE, and 2DT spots, and let our already drafted 22-25 year olds learn behind them? I don't see us drafting a FS high this year, so doesn't it make sense to get a FS in FA instead of plugging in another seventh rounder, and wait until 2010 to draft a young player at that position? I don't have a problem with drafting the USC MLB with our first pick, if that pick is around the 5-10 range, or a MLB in the 2nd round (everyone's high on Spikes there). I don't see us drafting an impact rookie at ROLB, so doesn't it make sense to sign a FA at that position (Vilma or Dansby) and wait until 2010 to draft a young player at that position?

We can draft an OL, a backup RB, a 2QB, and a 3WR, and get dividends now, and in the future.

Or to put it another way, I think we can solve our offensive problems for the next ten years with this draft. Except MLB and maybe ROLB, we can't solve any problems on defense with the draft.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-02-2008, 12:01 PM
Why would it be an atrocity? How would it be a setback (?!) to draft OL? RB and OL are the two positions on a team that traditionally rookies can fill and be as productive as vets.

3/5 of our starting OL (Niswanger, Jones, and McIntosh) were all free agents. They are, not coincidentally, the weak part of our line. We've signed several free agents (at least a dozen) on the OL - just no good ones. I agree that we should be aggressive in getting the best FA linemen under 30.

But it doesn't make any sense to stick with what we have or to go with over-the-hill guys. If we can't get a Gross, Stacy Andrews, or a Colombo, we need to get linemen from somewhere. Our offense has somehow remained competitive this year, despite not having a lot of talent. Don't imagine we can turn poop into gold a second year.

Besides, if we draft defense, chances are very good we're throwing away the picks. Lets keep improving what's improving through the draft, and let's use our FA money on those positions where we've failed miserably in drafting - our DL and LBs. I'd rather get three new starters in FA on our DL than our OL, wouldn't you?
Name a successfull O line that has more than 3 rookies starting.

chief31
12-02-2008, 12:46 PM
Yes, continue. What do you mean by "really" only drafted one? My point is that they have "continued" to voice the youth movement implying that they will "continue" to draft young players. They also know that the O line is the main issue with this team leading me to believe that they will once again draft an O lineman or two. We will not have a good line if they "continue" to draft O linemen and do not explore the FA market for them.

By "really", I mean that 6th round picks are vastly different that a 1st, 2nd, or third rounder.

If you are serious about a position, then you don't draft them in the 6th round.

Late rounders are generally perceived as long-shots.

So The Chiefs have made on serious o-line pick.

We have two starting o-linemen that are bad (RG and RT), one that is suspect (C) and one that may retire. (LG. But I doubt Waters retires.)

If we do address some of those positions through free agency, then I will be good with that. As long as we take it more seriously than we have with the bunch of free agents that we have brought in over the past couple of off-seasons.


Just because Hermie and the King have failed miserably the last 3 years in evaluating defensive talent doesn't necessarily mean they will fail again. You can't simply give up on drafting defense and inject a busload of FA's and expect some kind of cohesive play next couple of years. Its gotta be a mixture of both. Both sides of the ball..

We can't do the Matt Millen thing either. How many times are you allowed to try the same thing?

In five of our last eight NFL Drafts, we have taken a D-lineman with our top pick and eight first-day (1st - 3rd rounds) D-linemen.


Name a successfull O line that has more than 3 rookies starting.

Name an unsuccessful one.:lol:

But, as I stated above, if The Chiefs can get a valuable O-lineman through free agency, then great, that lowers the number of O-linemen we need.

jmlamerson
12-02-2008, 01:48 PM
Name a successfull O line that has more than 3 rookies starting.

I can't name a successful or unsuccessful line that has had four or five rookies starting. The Colts have had three rookies starting a couple times this year, and have done very decently.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-02-2008, 02:05 PM
By "really", I mean that 6th round picks are vastly different that a 1st, 2nd, or third rounder.

If you are serious about a position, then you don't draft them in the 6th round.

Late rounders are generally perceived as long-shots.

So The Chiefs have made on serious o-line pick.

We have two starting o-linemen that are bad (RG and RT), one that is suspect (C) and one that may retire. (LG. But I doubt Waters retires.)

If we do address some of those positions through free agency, then I will be good with that. As long as we take it more seriously than we have with the bunch of free agents that we have brought in over the past couple of off-seasons.



We can't do the Matt Millen thing either. How many times are you allowed to try the same thing?

In five of our last eight NFL Drafts, we have taken a D-lineman with our top pick and eight first-day (1st - 3rd rounds) D-linemen.



Name an unsuccessful one.:lol:

But, as I stated above, if The Chiefs can get a valuable O-lineman through free agency, then great, that lowers the number of O-linemen we need.
This is and has always been my point. The three worst O linemen on our team our arguably the three most important positions on the O line. I am one that believes that you will never have a good line by just drafting guys to fill those positions. As you know, I have also always been one harping on the fact that the Chiefs never spend any money on quality FA so in that sense I think we agree. jlamerson got there before I did but I was going to say have you seen the Colts play this year? IMO, I would much rather have a guy who has been in the league for a few years and is maybe a second tier guy rather than a rookie that will get torched every time he steps to the line!

jmlamerson
12-02-2008, 02:09 PM
By "really", I mean that 6th round picks are vastly different that a 1st, 2nd, or third rounder.

If you are serious about a position, then you don't draft them in the 6th round.

Late rounders are generally perceived as long-shots.

So The Chiefs have made on serious o-line pick.

We have two starting o-linemen that are bad (RG and RT), one that is suspect (C) and one that may retire. (LG. But I doubt Waters retires.)

If we do address some of those positions through free agency, then I will be good with that. As long as we take it more seriously than we have with the bunch of free agents that we have brought in over the past couple of off-seasons.



We can't do the Matt Millen thing either. How many times are you allowed to try the same thing?

In five of our last eight NFL Drafts, we have taken a D-lineman with our top pick and eight first-day (1st - 3rd rounds) D-linemen.



Name an unsuccessful one.:lol:

But, as I stated above, if The Chiefs can get a valuable O-lineman through free agency, then great, that lowers the number of O-linemen we need.

I agree entirely. If this were a new braintrust (GM, HC, and DC) involved with the defense, I could understand people's desire to see the Chiefs draft new defensive players. But these are the same guys who sunk us in this mess.

To give you an idea, over the three Herm/Carl drafts, the Chiefs have drafted (rounds in parentheses):

5 DL (1, 1, 2, 3, 6)
4 OL (1, 6, 6, 6)
4 WR (1, 4, 6, 6)
3 CB (2, 5, 5)
3 S (2, 3, 7)
3 TEs (3, 7, 7)
2 RB (3, 5)
1 QB (3)
1 K (5)

They have not drafted any LBs or Ps.

If you equate these by points (a first rounder is seven points, and a seventh rounder is one point), these are the totals:

DL - 27 points
WR - 15 points
OL - 13 points
CB - 12 points
S - 12 points
RB - 8 points
TE - 7 points
QB - 5 points
K - 3 points
LB - 0 points
P - 0 points

We've spent, in value, more picks on the DL, by far, than any other aspect of our team. It is the weakest aspect of our team. This is not a coincidence.

We would need to spend three of our top four picks on the OL this year to match what we've spent on our DL.

jmlamerson
12-02-2008, 02:16 PM
This is and has always been my point. The three worst O linemen on our team our arguably the three most important positions on the O line. I am one that believes that you will never have a good line by just drafting guys to fill those positions. As you know, I have also always been one harping on the fact that the Chiefs never spend any money on quality FA so in that sense I think we agree. jlamerson got there before I did but I was going to say have you seen the Colts play this year? IMO, I would much rather have a guy who has been in the league for a few years and is maybe a second tier guy rather than a rookie that will get torched every time he steps to the line!

I think you misread me. The Colts line has done very, very decent his year. The Colts are 8-4, and Manning has been sacked only 12 times. Their running game isn't doing very well, but that's more due to injuries in the backfield than anything else.

I would swap our line and theirs in a heartbeat. Because the Colts have continually pumped draft picks into their line, it manages to survive retirements (Tarik Glenn), injuries (Ugoh, Saturday, Diem) and even the occasional bad pick. Because we've skimped on our OL, it is in shambles.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't throw megabucks at Jordan Gross, but we can't sign middle-of-the-pack, +30 years old FAs for the right side of our line and think we've accomplished anything.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-02-2008, 02:41 PM
I think you misread me. The Colts line has done very, very decent his year. The Colts are 8-4, and Manning has been sacked only 12 times. Their running game isn't doing very well, but that's more due to injuries in the backfield than anything else.

I would swap our line and theirs in a heartbeat. Because the Colts have continually pumped draft picks into their line, it manages to survive retirements (Tarik Glenn), injuries (Ugoh, Saturday, Diem) and even the occasional bad pick. Because we've skimped on our OL, it is in shambles.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't throw megabucks at Jordan Gross, but we can't sign middle-of-the-pack, +30 years old FAs for the right side of our line and think we've accomplished anything.
I think the Colts line is a BIG part of the reason they are struggling! Their 8-4 record is misleading at best. Manning is hurried all day every Sunday. I'm telling you that you can't draft an O line and expect big things right away and the way things have gone in the past, the Chiefs won't spend any money in free agency anywhere let alone on the o line. RG, LG and C are terrible on the Chiefs right now. If they were to draft a RG, LG and C, and input those 3 guys into the line, it would be even worse I don't care how high they were drafted!!

I think we are agreeing in sort but I want more emphasis on free agency than the draft for the O line. I am good with 1 maybe 2 guys for the line but anymore than that is crazy to me.

texaschief
12-02-2008, 05:11 PM
Do you think the Chiefs are trying to win the Super Bowl next year or what? When you build a team like this, it's going to take a couple years to see the results. Yeah, the Chiefs could use some more FAs. But if you have a bunch of FAs who aren't expected to be the foundation of your franchise's future, they take away playing and development time from those guys who ARE expected to be the foundation of the team.

We should (and probably need to) either draft or get free agents for the following positions:

2QB Thigpen, Gray and Croyle. No immediate need for a QB in the off season.
RB (only if LJ is cut/traded) As much as I'd like to see it, LJ isn't going anywhere. The Chiefs can handle his contract and he's still a good RB.
LG (assuming Waters retires, and maybe even if he doesn't, as we'll need someone to groom) I wonder if Niswanger could handle the guard spot. If the Chiefs could draft Mack to play C, Niswanger could just slide over to RG or LG.
C Only if it's Mack out of Cal.
RG There won't be any Guards under 30 in FA that will be worth replacing the guys we already have. This one is gonna have to come from the draft. But, we need a DE and a couple LBs before we go guard.
RT- Jordan Gross. Period.
3WR (if we plan to keep running the spread)we have our #3 WR in Bradley. Sign Houshmandzadeh as your #2.
LDE I can't believe you want to replace the entire Dline. The line needs a solid pass rushing DE. Once they get that and another year of experience, they'll be just fine in 2010.
2DT
RDE Terrell Suggs could be a DE worth taking a look at. He's listed as a LB, but he's a LB the same way Merriman is a LB.
MLB I still want Vilma here, but i doubt he hits FA.
ROLB Same goes for Dansby
FS I know you want Landry, but i doubt he hits the market and his numbers have been comparable to Paige's.
KR/PR Robinson is just fine.

That's six spots on defense, seven on offense, and one on special teams.

Actually, that's 3 spots on offense.
C-Mack
OT-Gross
WR-Houshmandzadeh
Niswanger would move over to guard with Waters staying put for another year.

Everyone has excused Herm Edwards' massive failures in getting a respectable front four based upon "the learning curve." Do you really want to draft DL this year and listen to more excuses about "the learning curve"?

I'm curious how you think players become great players like the Julius Peppers, Albert Haynesworths and Terrell Suggs that you want to sign for this line. In Haynesworth's second year, he had only 32 tkls. Both Tank and Dorsy have already passed 32 with 4 games left on the schedule. In fact, the 8 year pro has only 10 more tkls than our two DTs have THIS year. Is his massive contract really worth the difference? Not to mention, IF Haynesworth stays healthy the rest of the year, it'll only be the FIRST season during his 8 year career in which he started all 16 games. I realize Haynesworth is a great pass rushing DT, but that's all the more reason why Tennessee isn't going to let him go. I for one, would rather see how our guys develop if they're already outperforming Haynesworth's timeline.

Instead, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to sign good, young free agents at the RDE, LDE, and 2DT spots, and let our already drafted 22-25 year olds learn behind them?

So, you want to make them take steps back in their development? These guys have already started at least one full season and now you want them to take a back seat? I'm sure that would go over well. Players today already pitch fits about playing time, but now, you want to sign free agents to long-term deals who would probably still be with the team when the rookie contracts are up and you expect those players to resign with a team who benched them and stay in a place where they'd still be sitting behind those free agents? Not likely.

I don't see us drafting a FS high this year, so doesn't it make sense to get a FS in FA instead of plugging in another seventh rounder, and wait until 2010 to draft a young player at that position?

Like who? Who will be on the market that is better than the guy we have?

I don't have a problem with drafting the USC MLB with our first pick, if that pick is around the 5-10 range, or a MLB in the 2nd round (everyone's high on Spikes there). I don't see us drafting an impact rookie at ROLB, so doesn't it make sense to sign a FA at that position (Vilma or Dansby) and wait until 2010 to draft a young player at that position?

I'd like to see the Chiefs take care of their LB corp thru free agency, but outside of Vilma and Dansby who probably won't hit the market, the age of the players available dramatically increases to over 30. It's going to be interesting to see how the Chiefs approach their LBs.

We can draft an OL, a backup RB, a 2QB, and a 3WR, and get dividends now, and in the future.

Or to put it another way, I think we can solve our offensive problems for the next ten years with this draft. Except MLB and maybe ROLB, we can't solve any problems on defense with the draft.

I still think our key holes are on defense. We should DRAFT a DE with our first pick and depending on what we did in FA, the next pick should be a LB. Whether it's inside or outside. I'd follow those picks on the O-line. I don't think the Chiefs should take a WR in the draft. There will be SOOOO many WRs on the FA market and that is an easy position to fill thru free agency. Hell, it seems to be an easy spot to fill even during the season. (See Mark Bradley)

Outside of MLB and OLB, DE and FS could be fixed in the draft. Myron Rolle would be a nice FS to bring in if they could get him in the 3rd. (not likely)

jmlamerson
12-02-2008, 06:15 PM
Do you think the Chiefs are trying to win the Super Bowl next year or what? When you build a team like this, it's going to take a couple years to see the results. Yeah, the Chiefs could use some more FAs. But if you have a bunch of FAs who aren't expected to be the foundation of your franchise's future, they take away playing and development time from those guys who ARE expected to be the foundation of the team.

2QB Thigpen, Gray and Croyle. No immediate need for a QB in the off season.
RB (only if LJ is cut/traded) As much as I'd like to see it, LJ isn't going anywhere. The Chiefs can handle his contract and he's still a good RB.
LG (assuming Waters retires, and maybe even if he doesn't, as we'll need someone to groom) I wonder if Niswanger could handle the guard spot. If the Chiefs could draft Mack to play C, Niswanger could just slide over to RG or LG.
C Only if it's Mack out of Cal.
RG There won't be any Guards under 30 in FA that will be worth replacing the guys we already have. This one is gonna have to come from the draft. But, we need a DE and a couple LBs before we go guard.
RT- Jordan Gross. Period.
3WR (if we plan to keep running the spread)we have our #3 WR in Bradley. Sign Houshmandzadeh as your #2.
LDE I can't believe you want to replace the entire Dline. The line needs a solid pass rushing DE. Once they get that and another year of experience, they'll be just fine in 2010.
2DT
RDE Terrell Suggs could be a DE worth taking a look at. He's listed as a LB, but he's a LB the same way Merriman is a LB.
MLB I still want Vilma here, but i doubt he hits FA.
ROLB Same goes for Dansby
FS I know you want Landry, but i doubt he hits the market and his numbers have been comparable to Paige's.
KR/PR Robinson is just fine.

Actually, that's 3 spots on offense.
C-Mack
OT-Gross
WR-Houshmandzadeh
Niswanger would move over to guard with Waters staying put for another year.

I'm curious how you think players become great players like the Julius Peppers, Albert Haynesworths and Terrell Suggs that you want to sign for this line. In Haynesworth's second year, he had only 32 tkls. Both Tank and Dorsy have already passed 32 with 4 games left on the schedule. In fact, the 8 year pro has only 10 more tkls than our two DTs have THIS year. Is his massive contract really worth the difference? Not to mention, IF Haynesworth stays healthy the rest of the year, it'll only be the FIRST season during his 8 year career in which he started all 16 games. I realize Haynesworth is a great pass rushing DT, but that's all the more reason why Tennessee isn't going to let him go. I for one, would rather see how our guys develop if they're already outperforming Haynesworth's timeline.

Instead, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to sign good, young free agents at the RDE, LDE, and 2DT spots, and let our already drafted 22-25 year olds learn behind them?

So, you want to make them take steps back in their development? These guys have already started at least one full season and now you want them to take a back seat? I'm sure that would go over well. Players today already pitch fits about playing time, but now, you want to sign free agents to long-term deals who would probably still be with the team when the rookie contracts are up and you expect those players to resign with a team who benched them and stay in a place where they'd still be sitting behind those free agents? Not likely.

Like who? Who will be on the market that is better than the guy we have?

I'd like to see the Chiefs take care of their LB corp thru free agency, but outside of Vilma and Dansby who probably won't hit the market, the age of the players available dramatically increases to over 30. It's going to be interesting to see how the Chiefs approach their LBs.

I still think our key holes are on defense. We should DRAFT a DE with our first pick and depending on what we did in FA, the next pick should be a LB. Whether it's inside or outside. I'd follow those picks on the O-line. I don't think the Chiefs should take a WR in the draft. There will be SOOOO many WRs on the FA market and that is an easy position to fill thru free agency. Hell, it seems to be an easy spot to fill even during the season. (See Mark Bradley)

Outside of MLB and OLB, DE and FS could be fixed in the draft. Myron Rolle would be a nice FS to bring in if they could get him in the 3rd. (not likely)

Did I even imply we're trying to win the SB next year? My whole point was that we need to sign good FAs under the age of 30 to be long-term components of the team. How many times do I need to write it?

You and I differ greatly on our defense. You still think guys like Tank, Turk, Thomas, and Page will turn out to be viable starters on the team. I don't. Exactly how long of a plan are you willing to embrace? You've written before that you accept the excuse of the learning curve for the putrid play of our front four. Are the Chiefs expected to wait another learning curve from another Herm DL bust before deciding that winning is important? And why do you think that FAs can't be a foundation of a team's future? Isn't is more sensible to to get real defensive linemen and groom young players behind them? How many years are you willing for this team to remain non-competitive?

You've got to quit pretending Croyle will be a Chief next year. Suck it up. He's gone.

Who knows if LJ will be on the team next year? We traded JA because he was one strike away from a year-long suspension. LJ is closer than that.

Niswanger may be a good backup. We need a legitimate C who can run block and pass block.

We're probably not getting Jordan Gross, despite how much we want him. Period.

We're not signing Houshmenzadah, as he want #1 WR money that CP won't pay him. Period.

As much as I want Vilma and Dansby, we probably won't pay enough for both, if either.

I want to replace three of four on the DL. Our DL has four sacks on the year (six for the whole defense). That is the lowest all time. These guys aren't going to be OK. They are the worst front four in the history of the league. Time won't change that.

Tackles aren't the most important stat for a DL. Our DL has so many tackles because people keep running straight at them. Our defense is 32nd ranked against the run and last in sacks. Haynesworth's Titans in their first year were second against the run - no one wanted to run on them. Peppers and Suggs have been legitimate pass-rushing threats for the past seven years. Last year Napo was one of the highest tackling MLBs in the game - was that because he was so great, or was it because people kept running at him?

Look, if you really think a DL made up of Hali, Tank, Dorsey, and Turk will ever be good, no logic will ever convince you. Time and continued bad performances are the only things that will convince you.

Page needs to be replaced, pronto, with a guy who can either tackle or cover (preferably both). Pollard needs to be replaced as well unless we move out of the Cover 2.

Guys like Tank, Turk, Page, and Thomas aren't getting contracts from anyone else after their contracts are done, except for maybe league minimum. Watch Page this offseason when he's a free agent - if he gets a real contract from anyone, I'll send you a nice shiny nickel.

You are right - our key holes are on our defensive front seven. Five of those seven need to be replaced ASAP. Also, DJ isn't playing up to his potential and Dorsey hasn't shown anything yet. There is a very, very good chance that, except for DJ, none of the layers on our front seven will be in the NFL in five years.

If you draft a DE this year, give him a nice comfortable three-year learning curve (like you've given Hali, Turk, Tank, and Dorsey), how exactly do you intend to ever get better? By 2012, the guys we drafted in 2006-2008 will be FAs. This is how teams like the Lions, Saints, and Cardinals remained at the bottom of the league so many years. Teams only can break this cycle by active FA (Cards getting Warner, for example), or by drafting one of the best QBs of all time (Colts drafting Manning, Pats drafting Brady). If we keep drafting mediocre players with high picks, trading good vets for project players, and avoiding free agency, we are going to become little better than a farm team.

jap1
12-02-2008, 07:52 PM
I personally dont like the idea of drafting a DE in free agency. Most D-linemen take at least 3 years to become dominant if they are ever going to become dominant. This applies to DE too. J. Allen took a few years before he was a dominant pass rusher. Mario Williams took a few years and now he is starting to be a formidable rusher. It just takes time for them to get used to the NFL caliber linemen's strength and speed. Right now I am not sure I have the patience to wait three more years before our D is good again.

At the same time, I unfortunately, do not see many available DEs out there that are young and worth getting in free agency. So I can honestly say that I have no idea what I would like to see done

I think this draft has a lot of good MLBs available (Spikes, Maualuga (sp?), Laurinaitis, et al.) that would be able to contribute quickly. I think our secondary is adequate when we get a decent D-line. I would like to see an upgrade at safety eventually, but this is far from a priority for me.

On O-line, I would love to get Gross if we can, or a stud guaranteed RT in the draft. Then pick up a guard in like the 3rd round or so. One option while we are developing a guard (if Waters hangs around for a year or two) is to move McIntosh to RG. His big problem at tackle is lack of mobility in space, which isnt as important for a guard. I think Niswager is adequate if you shore up the right side some more.


Here is what I would love to see in FA:
Gross at RT
An established DE (if one becomes available)
An established DT
An established OLB

Here is what I would like to see in the draft:
1st- Maualuga, MLB
2nd- Best OLB/OT (depending on FA)
3rd/4th- Best G, C or DL available
5-7th best player on the board

I also wouldnt mind seeing us trade back in the 1st round for an extra 2nd if there is someone willing to take the trade. With that pick I would pick up the best QB available late in the 2nd

Some draft "gurus" think Mark Sanchez will drop to the 2nd round because USC isnt getting much press this year and wont make it into the BCS championship.

I dont believe in drafting for a position beyond the 4th round. I heard a stat on ESPN that only 1/3rd of people picked in the last 3 rds are in the league after 3 years, let alone making an impact at all.

I doubt any let alone all of this could happen, but we will see.

Feel free to criticize (you are going to do it anyway).:D

texaschief
12-02-2008, 07:56 PM
Did I even imply we're trying to win the SB next year? My whole point was that we need to sign good FAs under the age of 30 to be long-term components of the team. How many times do I need to write it?

You and I differ greatly on our defense. You still think guys like Tank, Turk, Thomas, and Page will turn out to be viable starters on the team. I don't. Exactly how long of a plan are you willing to embrace? You've written before that you accept the excuse of the learning curve for the putrid play of our front four.

Well, speaking as a fan of this team who's been around longer than a year and one who will stick with his team thru the tough times my team will endure. Unlike you, who apparently jumped ship from his old team because they were losing. I still don't understand if this team and coaching staff is so horrible, why you decided to become a Chiefs fan in the first place.

When this team decided on this plan of action, I knew it was going to take more than just one year to see results. You may think this "rebuild" started when Edwards was hired, but that isn't the case. He started drafting that year, but the Chiefs didn't trade away key assets such as Larry Johnson and Tony Gonzalez that could've brought back large packages of draft picks like the Allen trade did. Those types of trades are indicative of a franchise who is rebuilding. Rebuilding franchises don't sign a crap load of free agents to try and fill holes either.

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to give this strategy and even this coaching staff another 2-4 years but only if the GM is replaced. I'm sick of mediocrity and the plan you have outlined is one this franchise has followed since Peterson has been in office and they don't have a single trophy to show for it (Lombardi or Hunt). At least the plan they've decided to pursue is the right one and one that shouldn't be judged one year into implementation.

Are the Chiefs expected to wait another learning curve from another Herm DL bust before deciding that winning is important?

Your player evaluation is baseless, impatient and downright gawd awful. Just incase you were wondering. To say Tank Tyler and Glenn Dorsey are busts after their 2nd and rookie seasons is unbelievably impatient.

And why do you think that FAs can't be a foundation of a team's future? Isn't is more sensible to to get real defensive linemen and groom young players behind them? How many years are you willing for this team to remain non-competitive?

I'm willing to wait a couple more years if you really want to know. We've been "competitive" for 20 or so years. I'm willing to take a couple years to build a consistently winning franchise. Again, we wouldn't have to go thru this painful process had the Chiefs drafted better from 2000-2005. If they had, we'd have players equal to the free agents you now want to sign.

The Chiefs essentially hit the reset button and are building their entire franchise through the draft. They've said this over and over again. In a couple more years, the players that Edwards originally drafted will be in their 5th season and will be playing at the level you want them to be at now. So, until these players have the kind of experience and playing time sufficient enough to evaluate them properly, I'm not going to advocate pulling the plug on these players and calling them busts like you're oh so ready to do.

Again, this just shows your impatience.

You've got to quit pretending Croyle will be a Chief next year. Suck it up. He's gone.

Brodie Croyle still has a year left on his contract that pays him 530k. As a QB who was viewed as the QBOTF, he's going to return as either the backup or 3rd QB. He WON'T be gone and you're the one who's gonna have to "suck it up." Unless you see the Chiefs taking a QB in the first 3 rounds (which is HIGHLY unlikely), who would Croyle be cut in favor of? A seventh round draft pick or more expensive FA?

Who knows if LJ will be on the team next year? We traded JA because he was one strike away from a year-long suspension. LJ is closer than that.

That wasn't why the Chiefs traded him. It didn't help that he was a strike away, but that's not why they traded him. He and Peterson couldn't agree on a contract and the Chiefs needed more draft picks once they decided on a plan to completely rebuild the franchise.

The Chiefs aren't going to cut away a RB that is still viewed as one of the best in the league who happens to be stuck behind a poor O-line. But, his value is so low that the Chiefs won't get fair value out of him in a trade. The best option for the Chiefs will be to keep him. With the Chiefs' salary number, they can afford it. Plus, they don't have a guy behind him who's pushing for a starting role. All the backups are role players or situational backs.

Niswanger may be a good backup. We need a legitimate C who can run block and pass block.

Mack would be great. I think Niswanger could be moved over to guard to fill the RG spot in 2009.

We're probably not getting Jordan Gross, despite how much we want him. Period.

The Chiefs have the most to spend and Gross can't be franchised again. Do you have any REAL basis to state this claim? I didn't think so. *shocker*

We're not signing Houshmenzadah, as he want #1 WR money that CP won't pay him. Period.

Probably true, but there are way too many WRs on the market to take another one in the draft.

As much as I want Vilma and Dansby, we probably won't pay enough for both, if either.

Why? Peterson has thrown money at expensive free agents before. If these guys hit the market, they'd be high on the Chiefs' list of free agents.

I want to replace three of four on the DL. Our DL has four sacks on the year (six for the whole defense). That is the lowest all time. These guys aren't going to be OK. They are the worst front four in the history of the league. Time won't change that.

Well, I agree that the Chiefs need a pass rushing DE. I'm guessing you want to keep Dorsey which means you want to get rid of both Hali and Tyler. If we're not going to spend money on LBs, why would we spend money DEs who would require more money in free agency? Doesn't it seem like a better allocation of resources if the Chiefs drafted a DE and spent less money on two LBs? One DE spot is going to be tough enough to fill, let alone two.

Tackles aren't the most important stat for a DL. Our DL has so many tackles because people keep running straight at them. Our defense is 32nd ranked against the run and last in sacks. Haynesworth's Titans in their first year were second against the run - no one wanted to run on them.

So, run defense has nothing to do with linebackers, huh? They're running well against the Chiefs because the two DTs don't have much experience and don't stay in their gaps against vet Olinemen. Then, the Chiefs can't keep their LBs healthy and only have one REAL LB in their corp.

Peppers and Suggs have been legitimate pass-rushing threats for the past seven years.

ok. you want to spend probably more than half of the Chiefs available salary on two guys. nice.

Last year Napo was one of the highest tackling MLBs in the game - was that because he was so great, or was it because people kept running at him?

Look, if you really think a DL made up of Hali, Tank, Dorsey, and Turk will ever be good, no logic will ever convince you. Time and continued bad performances are the only things that will convince you.

Tank and Dorsey will be great DTs. Hali will be a good DE opposite a good pass rushing DE like Allen was. The Chiefs need ONE great DE for their Dline to be complete. The problem with your argument is there is NO LOGIC in it. All you say is that the two young DTs are busts after their 1st and 2nd years. You don't see any projectability in either of those guys? Seriously?

Page needs to be replaced, pronto, with a guy who can either tackle or cover (preferably both). Pollard needs to be replaced as well unless we move out of the Cover 2.

with who? lmao...

Guys like Tank, Turk, Page, and Thomas aren't getting contracts from anyone else after their contracts are done, except for maybe league minimum. Watch Page this offseason when he's a free agent - if he gets a real contract from anyone, I'll send you a nice shiny nickel.

You are right - our key holes are on our defensive front seven. Five of those seven need to be replaced ASAP. Also, DJ isn't playing up to his potential and Dorsey hasn't shown anything yet. There is a very, very good chance that, except for DJ, none of the layers on our front seven will be in the NFL in five years.

lol. wow. I'd say 3 need to be replaced. 1DE and 2LBs.

If you draft a DE this year, give him a nice comfortable three-year learning curve (like you've given Hali, Turk, Tank, and Dorsey), how exactly do you intend to ever get better? By 2012, the guys we drafted in 2006-2008 will be FAs. This is how teams like the Lions, Saints, and Cardinals remained at the bottom of the league so many years. Teams only can break this cycle by active FA (Cards getting Warner, for example), or by drafting one of the best QBs of all time (Colts drafting Manning, Pats drafting Brady). If we keep drafting mediocre players with high picks, trading good vets for project players, and avoiding free agency, we are going to become little better than a farm team.

I guess it's time for you to jump ship to another losing team because this one isn't going to do ANYTHING that you want. I heard the Raiders like signing expensive FAs to fill their holes, I think you might like that team better than this one. You're only a year invested in this team. It's really not too late.

theaxeeffect4311
12-02-2008, 08:10 PM
At some point (I mean except for the last 20 years) you have to draft a franchise QB! Now, if this is what they thought they were doing when they drafted Croyle, we have worse problems than I thought in mngmt!!!!! IMO I think we need to draft that QB now and play in the FA market for defensive players and O linemen. If we continue to draft O linemen, this line will NEVER be any good!

First of all, that argument does not make sense. You draft a position until it is filled. So yes, we'll keep drafting O linemen until they're able to get a one yard push so we don't get stopped in the red zone again.

The thing is Herm Edwards has a horrible track record of QBs being injured. The main reason is because he puts off the O line. The O line is not just five 300 lbs men standing in a line. So we need to draft linemen to keep our QBs from getting hit on each passing play.

Oh, and Carl Peterson is bad at choosing franchise quarterbacks.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-02-2008, 10:07 PM
First of all, that argument does not make sense. You draft a position until it is filled. So yes, we'll keep drafting O linemen until they're able to get a one yard push so we don't get stopped in the red zone again.

The thing is Herm Edwards has a horrible track record of QBs being injured. The main reason is because he puts off the O line. The O line is not just five 300 lbs men standing in a line. So we need to draft linemen to keep our QBs from getting hit on each passing play.

Oh, and Carl Peterson is bad at choosing franchise quarterbacks.
Read the post again.....Ever hear of FREE AGENCY????

jmlamerson
12-03-2008, 12:37 AM
I guess it's time for you to jump ship to another losing team because this one isn't going to do ANYTHING that you want. I heard the Raiders like signing expensive FAs to fill their holes, I think you might like that team better than this one. You're only a year invested in this team. It's really not too late.

I'll answer your other points later, but the one year thing is a joke. I've been a Chiefs fan my whole life.

Look, time will prove me right, and you very wrong, on our evaluations of the Chiefs talent. We're a franchise intent on mediocrity right now. We're getting worse every year under the current regime. Blaming Vermiel for all of our current problems has passed its expiration date.

It takes blindness to look at our team and see a future contender. We need to rebuild this team, badly. All the current regime is doing is tearing it down.

Big Daddy Tek
12-03-2008, 01:46 AM
I'll answer your other points later, but the one year thing is a joke. I've been a Chiefs fan my whole life.

Look, time will prove me right, and you very wrong, on our evaluations of the Chiefs talent. We're a franchise intent on mediocrity right now. We're getting worse every year under the current regime. Blaming Vermiel for all of our current problems has passed its expiration date.

It takes blindness to look at our team and see a future contender. We need to rebuild this team, badly. All the current regime is doing is tearing it down.
You continue to be one of the most negative, sceptic ***** that I've ever heard.

chief31
12-03-2008, 03:47 AM
You continue to be one of the most negative, sceptic ***** that I've ever heard.

I see alot of people who debate their way into insults and name-calling. And that is bad enough.

But to post with no opinions other than personal attacks is a show of disrespect for the site.

If you don't like one of the members of the site, then you can put them on 'ignore', or just not bother to respond to them.

Now, as for the discussion at hand...

I am far from ready to give-up on Dorsey. And I think Hali blends with the performances around him, so I can accept him, for now.

Tank is one that I wouldn't mind keeping. But I would prefer to upgrade the starting spot, as I watch him mature.

I never liked the Turk pick. But if he were to stay and try to play at LDE, competing with Hali, I would be alright with that.

I am starting to lose faith in Pollard, and I never liked Page. With as poorly as our front seven has been against the run, Pollard really should be cleaning house against the run. But that hasn't been happening.

While Page may be better replaced with nothing at all. Aside from being a horrible tackler, I am so tired of watching him cut-off other would-be tacklers, just to miss another tackle and spring a ball-carrier for another big gain.

I can live with a FS who doesn't offer much support against the run, but he is so often getting in the way of the rest of our defense that it isn't funny.

That is something that he should have learned by now, through regular coaching. (Gun/Herm)

Either that coaching is not happening, or he is just never going to learn.

As for the LBs, and the point about how horrible The Chiefs drafted from '01-'05, Fujita, Mitchell, Harris and JA sure would make this defense look a whole lot better.

But that doesn't help much right now.

I do believe that a different coach, defensive scheme and better D-line play would make the current group look alot better than they do now.

I would be alright with either drafting one, or finding some high-end FA help.

The RDE spot is ruined. You just don't find great pass-rushers anywhere. We can either pay alot for an aging vet like Peppers, or try drafting for it.

We need someone who is going to assure us that we can get some pressure, otherwise, we will continue to have the worst defense in The NFL.

Which, to me, means we have to go spend big money on a RDE that will draw alot of double-teams, at the very least.

And, if Croyle gets himself in shape, then he will do just fine as our #3. I prefer to have Huard at #2, over Gray.

I can live with Niswanger, and I think we have another season with Waters.

Ideally, I would try to fill the RT and DE spots with big money FAs.

Leaving my draft priorities like this...

1. MLB (1st or second round.)
2. OG (Best value is actually in the second, or third, round.)
3. FS (If I get my FA OT, then I might accept swapping with OG to #2.)
4. C/OG/OT (Depth is currently non-existent.)
5. DE

Beyond that, we could still use some more talent at DT, LB, CB, WR, and FB. But there is only so much that we can cover in one off-season.

I think that JM is too far to one side, while TC is too far to the other. I kinda liked where Jap1 went with his assessment. But I didn't hate either of the other directions too much.

The one big thing about TCs direction that I disagree with is Herm. :mob:

texaschief
12-03-2008, 04:11 AM
I'll answer your other points later, but the one year thing is a joke. I've been a Chiefs fan my whole life.

Look, time will prove me right, and you very wrong, on our evaluations of the Chiefs talent. We're a franchise intent on mediocrity right now. We're getting worse every year under the current regime. Blaming Vermiel for all of our current problems has passed its expiration date.

It takes blindness to look at our team and see a future contender. We need to rebuild this team, badly. All the current regime is doing is tearing it down.


Here. Let's look at something real quick. Humor me. In Dick Vermeil's second year, he took a DT by the name of Ryan Sims 6th overall in the draft. That was 9 picks before your beloved Albert Haynesworth. Tell me, who's fault do you think it is that Haynesworth isn't on the Chiefs team RIGHT NOW? You don't think that pick still affects the Chiefs right now? You don't think if Vermeil had identified the right DT that we'd be in a MUCH better position on our line right now? Your boy passed on players such as DT John Henderson, Dwight Freeney, Albert Haynesworth, Ed Reed and Lito Sheppard just to name a few. You're gonna sit there and tell me his drafts from 2001-2005 don't affect the Chiefs still?!! You're practically begging for Haynesworth who was taken WAY after Sims.

If you want to identify a "bust" DT, you should compare numbers from Sims' career to Haynesworth's career, to the two DTs that you claim are already busts now on the Chiefs team.

During Sims' ENTIRE career, he's only started 16 once (2003) during that season, he had 38 tkls and 3 sacks. The next season, he started 13 games with 15 tkls and 2 sacks. He never started more than 5 games in a season again.

Haynesworth started 11 games in 2003, had 32 tkls and 2.5 sacks. he followed that with 10 games, 36 tkls, 1 sack. Next, came 2005 in 14 games he had 52 tkls and 3 sacks followed by 10 games, 30 tkls and 2 sacks. In 2007 he started 12 games with 40 tkls and 6 sacks. This year, his 7th year, he's started 12 games, has 44 tkls and 8.5 sacks.

Now, we'll start with Tank. Thru 12 games in his first season as a starter, Tank has 33 tkls and no sacks.

Dorsey in his first year as a starter and first year in the league, thru 12 starts he has 32 tkls, 1 sack and 1FF.

Haynesworth's first year he had 3 starts, 30 tkls and 1 sack.
Sims had 2 starts, 6 tkls and no sacks.

You tell me. Which player do our DTs compare more favorably to?

It takes a lack of football knowledge and lack of foresight to look at this team and NOT see potential for a contender.

texaschief
12-03-2008, 04:48 AM
Now, as for the discussion at hand...

I am far from ready to give-up on Dorsey. And I think Hali blends with the performances around him, so I can accept him, for now.

Tank is one that I wouldn't mind keeping. But I would prefer to upgrade the starting spot, as I watch him mature.

I never liked the Turk pick. But if he were to stay and try to play at LDE, competing with Hali, I would be alright with that.

I've also hated that pick since it happened. There's no way you draft a "tweener" in the 2nd round.

I am starting to lose faith in Pollard, and I never liked Page. With as poorly as our front seven has been against the run, Pollard really should be cleaning house against the run. But that hasn't been happening.

While Page may be better replaced with nothing at all. Aside from being a horrible tackler, I am so tired of watching him cut-off other would-be tacklers, just to miss another tackle and spring a ball-carrier for another big gain.

I can live with a FS who doesn't offer much support against the run, but he is so often getting in the way of the rest of our defense that it isn't funny.

That is something that he should have learned by now, through regular coaching. (Gun/Herm)

Either that coaching is not happening, or he is just never going to learn.

I'm not saying I absolutely love either of these guys, but if Pollard was doing a horrible job, you have to think Morgan would've taken over by now. But i'm tired of his poor tackling. Yeah, he can make a hit, but he's missed a lot of tackles this season. I wouldn't be against getting a better FS, but who? Nobody better will be on the market and I'm not too excited about spending another high pick on a safety.

As for the LBs, and the point about how horrible The Chiefs drafted from '01-'05, Fujita, Mitchell, Harris and JA sure would make this defense look a whole lot better.

you know i don't like Mitchell. Fujita hasn't been healthy and he's only got 55 tkls in 10 games. That's pretty much par for what we have now. I mean Thomas has 48 tkls in 9 games. Somehow Boiman has 44 tkls thru 5 games. That puts us around 92 tkls from the MLB spot if NFL.com's stats are correct. I don't think we'd necessarily be better off with Fujita. Mitchell has 62 tkls thru 12 games. About average.

There's no doubt this defense would've been better with Allen. But we'd have no future LT. Probably no Cottam and no Charles or Morgan. I'm pretty neutral on the Allen trade even though I'm leaning toward liking the trade because of Albert's play alone. Charles will be great for us too.

But that doesn't help much right now.

I do believe that a different coach, defensive scheme and better D-line play would make the current group look alot better than they do now.

I would be alright with either drafting one, or finding some high-end FA help.

The RDE spot is ruined. You just don't find great pass-rushers anywhere. We can either pay alot for an aging vet like Peppers, or try drafting for it.

I would've been nice a couple years ago, but he's almost 30. He's not young enough to be here for the long term. We should draft one. Orakpo, in my opinion is overrated because i've seen him play a lot this season and he just doesn't flash enough imo. If i'm taking a DE, I'm going after Michael Johnson. He's a freak of a specimen. His 40 time is unreal and he stands well over 6'0. When ever there's a doubt, take the better athlete.

We need someone who is going to assure us that we can get some pressure, otherwise, we will continue to have the worst defense in The NFL.

Which, to me, means we have to go spend big money on a RDE that will draw alot of double-teams, at the very least.

And, if Croyle gets himself in shape, then he will do just fine as our #3. I prefer to have Huard at #2, over Gray.
Why Huard? If he's going to stay in the league, he needs to be with a more veteran line that can keep his jersey clean because he sure can't do it for himself.

I can live with Niswanger, and I think we have another season with Waters.

Ideally, I would try to fill the RT and DE spots with big money FAs.

RT yes, DE no. DEs are going to cost waaay too much money. I'd rather get a MLB or OLB if we get into free agency. They cost a lot less comparatively.

Leaving my draft priorities like this...

1. MLB (1st or second round.) DE
2. OG (Best value is actually in the second, or third, round.) What if we can get a C like Mack in the 2nd? Do you think Niswanger can move over?
3. FS (If I get my FA OT, then I might accept swapping with OG to #2.)
4. C/OG/OT (Depth is currently non-existent.)
5. DE You'd really be ok with getting a DE this late in the draft? He wouldn't possibly start.

Beyond that, we could still use some more talent at DT, LB, CB, WR, and FB. But there is only so much that we can cover in one off-season.

If Turk could provide depth behind Hali, Boone could move inside where he belongs with Ron Edwards behind Dorsey and Tank.

I think that JM is too far to one side, while TC is too far to the other. I kinda liked where Jap1 went with his assessment. But I didn't hate either of the other directions too much.

The one big thing about TCs direction that I disagree with is Herm. :mob:

It's not that I'm against free agents. They just have to be the right ones. Chances are, Haynesworth, Vilma, Dansby, Landry and Aso, probably won't get to free agency. Those players are really the only players worth the big money that they'll be asking for. Their teams are either going to sign them or franchise them.

Gross, the OT from Carolina is the only guy right now who i can see getting away from his current team. I'd love to sign him. He's young and WAAY better than McIntosh.

If those guys are all gone, there's really no point in going out and signing second tier players who are only going to take playing time away from our rookies. I think this team is good right now, but they're only 1 deep. There is absolutely zero talent sitting on the bench. If we can get another draft like the one we had in 2008, it would go a long way to establishing the depth that this team needs to be competitive.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-03-2008, 01:21 PM
It's not that I'm against free agents. They just have to be the right ones. Chances are, Haynesworth, Vilma, Dansby, Landry and Aso, probably won't get to free agency. Those players are really the only players worth the big money that they'll be asking for. Their teams are either going to sign them or franchise them.

Gross, the OT from Carolina is the only guy right now who i can see getting away from his current team. I'd love to sign him. He's young and WAAY better than McIntosh.

If those guys are all gone, there's really no point in going out and signing second tier players who are only going to take playing time away from our rookies. I think this team is good right now, but they're only 1 deep. There is absolutely zero talent sitting on the bench. If we can get another draft like the one we had in 2008, it would go a long way to establishing the depth that this team needs to be competitive.
I could not disagree more! I would much rather have 4 second tier guys with experience on that line than 4 rookies! Lets face it, there are only a hand full of "stellar" O linemen out there so most of them are second tier guys. Unfortunatley we have a line of 3rd and 4th tier guys along with one decent rookie!!

nigeriannightmare
12-03-2008, 02:17 PM
I think that JM is too far to one side, while TC is too far to the other. I kinda liked where Jap1 went with his assessment. But I didn't hate either of the other directions too much.

The one big thing about TCs direction that I disagree with is Herm. :mob:

That's 1 thing I will never understand, how you can hate on coaches that have done something and give the benefit of the doubt to a coach that hasn't.

However, both JM and TC both have a lot of football knowledge and I enjoy reading their posts as it provides insight and knowledge, as do a lot of others on the site such as yourself.

Kind of funny that everyone has the best for the Chiefs at heart but the sides taken are all different. I love that we can all disagree and still cheer for the Chiefs on Sunday....

jmlamerson
12-03-2008, 02:25 PM
Here. Let's look at something real quick. Humor me. In Dick Vermeil's second year, he took a DT by the name of Ryan Sims 6th overall in the draft. That was 9 picks before your beloved Albert Haynesworth. Tell me, who's fault do you think it is that Haynesworth isn't on the Chiefs team RIGHT NOW? You don't think that pick still affects the Chiefs right now? You don't think if Vermeil had identified the right DT that we'd be in a MUCH better position on our line right now? Your boy passed on players such as DT John Henderson, Dwight Freeney, Albert Haynesworth, Ed Reed and Lito Sheppard just to name a few. You're gonna sit there and tell me his drafts from 2001-2005 don't affect the Chiefs still?!! You're practically begging for Haynesworth who was taken WAY after Sims.

If you want to identify a "bust" DT, you should compare numbers from Sims' career to Haynesworth's career, to the two DTs that you claim are already busts now on the Chiefs team.

During Sims' ENTIRE career, he's only started 16 once (2003) during that season, he had 38 tkls and 3 sacks. The next season, he started 13 games with 15 tkls and 2 sacks. He never started more than 5 games in a season again.

Haynesworth started 11 games in 2003, had 32 tkls and 2.5 sacks. he followed that with 10 games, 36 tkls, 1 sack. Next, came 2005 in 14 games he had 52 tkls and 3 sacks followed by 10 games, 30 tkls and 2 sacks. In 2007 he started 12 games with 40 tkls and 6 sacks. This year, his 7th year, he's started 12 games, has 44 tkls and 8.5 sacks.

Now, we'll start with Tank. Thru 12 games in his first season as a starter, Tank has 33 tkls and no sacks.

Dorsey in his first year as a starter and first year in the league, thru 12 starts he has 32 tkls, 1 sack and 1FF.

Haynesworth's first year he had 3 starts, 30 tkls and 1 sack.
Sims had 2 starts, 6 tkls and no sacks.

You tell me. Which player do our DTs compare more favorably to?

It takes a lack of football knowledge and lack of foresight to look at this team and NOT see potential for a contender.

Haynesworth's first year: Titans 2nd against the run
Dorsey's first year: Chiefs 31st against the run

This isn't that complicated. Dorsey has 25 solo tackles and one sack in his first year. He is being picked on because he is near useless against the run. The whole Chiefs line is accumulating tackles while giving up massive runs. This is because teams keep running straight at them. They keep running straight at them because our DL can't stop the run.

Look at DeAngelo Hall with the Raiders. Teams kept throwing on him, so he kept accumulating tackles and sometimes picks. Same principle.

Every team can look back at its drafts and see people they missed. I wish we had OJ Mayo right now much more than Dorsey.

Did Vermeil draft well? No. Has Herm drafted well? No. Vermeil's drafts did produce two Chiefs pro bowlers in JA and LJ, and he did trade for a third in Trent Green. Herm's have produced nothing, yet. He hasn't signed any good FAs yet.

I think, of Herm's picks, Albert, Flowers, Carr, and Bowe look like legitimate NFL players.

I think Charles, Cottam, and Pollard have shown flashes, but have big question marks.

I'll withhold judgment on Dorsey, Will Franklin, and Kevin Robinson until the end of next year.

That's it. And despite 26 picks in three years, the Chiefs haven't drafted an OL (except Albert), or drafted a franchise QB (although Thipen on waivers was a find), or drafted a LB, or drafted a K. We've sent most of our picks down a rathole of DL and S.

Dorsey may turn out OK. I've called Tank, Tyler, and Hali busts - not Dorsey to my memory. I have said that he's not living up to his draft status, and he has bust potential. He's shown nothing yet. Why don't you understand the difference between potential and performance? Or to put it more simply, has Dorsey shown anything to show that he may be a stud? Or does he look sluggish, overweight, and lost out there?

And you never answered my questions below.

(1) If you believe that every DL pick needs at least three years before he can be expected to be good, are you saying that you do not expect a DE selected this year to be good until 2012? Should the Chiefs accept mediocrity (at best) until then?

(2) If Tank and Hali are as bad this year as next year, is it safe (in your opinion) to call them busts yet? How long do you give someone?

(3) Why would Jordan Gross come here if we plan to be rebuilding until 2010 or beyond?

jmlamerson
12-03-2008, 02:29 PM
It's not that I'm against free agents. They just have to be the right ones. Chances are, Haynesworth, Vilma, Dansby, Landry and Aso, probably won't get to free agency. Those players are really the only players worth the big money that they'll be asking for. Their teams are either going to sign them or franchise them.

Gross, the OT from Carolina is the only guy right now who i can see getting away from his current team. I'd love to sign him. He's young and WAAY better than McIntosh.

If those guys are all gone, there's really no point in going out and signing second tier players who are only going to take playing time away from our rookies. I think this team is good right now, but they're only 1 deep. There is absolutely zero talent sitting on the bench. If we can get another draft like the one we had in 2008, it would go a long way to establishing the depth that this team needs to be competitive.

Asomgha won't be franchised again, and he's unlikely to resign with Oakland. More than any other player out there, I want him on the Chiefs.

chief31
12-03-2008, 03:04 PM
Now, as for the discussion at hand...

I am far from ready to give-up on Dorsey. And I think Hali blends with the performances around him, so I can accept him, for now.

Tank is one that I wouldn't mind keeping. But I would prefer to upgrade the starting spot, as I watch him mature.

I never liked the Turk pick. But if he were to stay and try to play at LDE, competing with Hali, I would be alright with that.

I've also hated that pick since it happened. There's no way you draft a "tweener" in the 2nd round.

I am starting to lose faith in Pollard, and I never liked Page. With as poorly as our front seven has been against the run, Pollard really should be cleaning house against the run. But that hasn't been happening.

While Page may be better replaced with nothing at all. Aside from being a horrible tackler, I am so tired of watching him cut-off other would-be tacklers, just to miss another tackle and spring a ball-carrier for another big gain.

I can live with a FS who doesn't offer much support against the run, but he is so often getting in the way of the rest of our defense that it isn't funny.

That is something that he should have learned by now, through regular coaching. (Gun/Herm)

Either that coaching is not happening, or he is just never going to learn.

I'm not saying I absolutely love either of these guys, but if Pollard was doing a horrible job, you have to think Morgan would've taken over by now. But i'm tired of his poor tackling. Yeah, he can make a hit, but he's missed a lot of tackles this season. I wouldn't be against getting a better FS, but who? Nobody better will be on the market and I'm not too excited about spending another high pick on a safety.

Neither am I. But something has to be done at FS, at least.

As for the LBs, and the point about how horrible The Chiefs drafted from '01-'05, Fujita, Mitchell, Harris and JA sure would make this defense look a whole lot better.

you know i don't like Mitchell. Fujita hasn't been healthy and he's only got 55 tkls in 10 games. That's pretty much par for what we have now. I mean Thomas has 48 tkls in 9 games. Somehow Boiman has 44 tkls thru 5 games. That puts us around 92 tkls from the MLB spot if NFL.com's stats are correct. I don't think we'd necessarily be better off with Fujita. Mitchell has 62 tkls thru 12 games. About average.

All of these guys have done very well, on much better defenses than we have. That really says something. Ignore it all you want. But you should realize that the reason you don't like Fujita and Mitchell is because Vermiel drafted hem.

There's no doubt this defense would've been better with Allen. But we'd have no future LT. Probably no Cottam and no Charles or Morgan. I'm pretty neutral on the Allen trade even though I'm leaning toward liking the trade because of Albert's play alone. Charles will be great for us too.

You know as well as anyone, that The Chiefs had to have a LOT and that they would have gone that way in the draft, regardless of the Allen deal. What we wouldn't have had was Dorsey.

But that doesn't help much right now.

I do believe that a different coach, defensive scheme and better D-line play would make the current group look alot better than they do now.

I would be alright with either drafting one, or finding some high-end FA help.

The RDE spot is ruined. You just don't find great pass-rushers anywhere. We can either pay alot for an aging vet like Peppers, or try drafting for it.

I would've been nice a couple years ago, but he's almost 30. He's not young enough to be here for the long term. We should draft one. Orakpo, in my opinion is overrated because i've seen him play a lot this season and he just doesn't flash enough imo. If i'm taking a DE, I'm going after Michael Johnson. He's a freak of a specimen. His 40 time is unreal and he stands well over 6'0. When ever there's a doubt, take the better athlete.

Drafting a DE is such a long-shot. And taking that kind of long-shot, with the worst pass-rushing defense of all-time is even riskier. Give me a guy that I know can draw attention, and I will have to draft one later.

Peppers may not be a long-term solution. But he gives the rest of our line a chance to excell, while we wait for a younger DE to emerge.

We need someone who is going to assure us that we can get some pressure, otherwise, we will continue to have the worst defense in The NFL.

Which, to me, means we have to go spend big money on a RDE that will draw alot of double-teams, at the very least.

And, if Croyle gets himself in shape, then he will do just fine as our #3. I prefer to have Huard at #2, over Gray.
Why Huard? If he's going to stay in the league, he needs to be with a more veteran line that can keep his jersey clean because he sure can't do it for himself.

He is the only guy who has been able to win games for Herm.

I can live with Niswanger, and I think we have another season with Waters.

Ideally, I would try to fill the RT and DE spots with big money FAs.

RT yes, DE no. DEs are going to cost waaay too much money. I'd rather get a MLB or OLB if we get into free agency. They cost a lot less comparatively.

DEs cost that much because they are worth it. Plus, you have a better cghance of having success drafting a LB.

Leaving my draft priorities like this...

1. MLB (1st or second round.) DE
2. OG (Best value is actually in the second, or third, round.) What if we can get a C like Mack in the 2nd? Do you think Niswanger can move over? I don't. It's not a strong opinion. But I don't see him pudhing defenders back. But I can live with a weakness at RG, if this Mack is a real good one, and we get a good ROT.
3. FS (If I get my FA OT, then I might accept swapping with OG to #2.)
4. C/OG/OT (Depth is currently non-existent.)
5. DE You'd really be ok with getting a DE this late in the draft? He wouldn't possibly start. I have Peppers, so that we can try to bring a young player along.

Beyond that, we could still use some more talent at DT, LB, CB, WR, and FB. But there is only so much that we can cover in one off-season.

If Turk could provide depth behind Hali, Boone could move inside where he belongs with Ron Edwards behind Dorsey and Tank.

Boone should already be starting ahead of Tank, IMO.

I think that JM is too far to one side, while TC is too far to the other. I kinda liked where Jap1 went with his assessment. But I didn't hate either of the other directions too much.

The one big thing about TCs direction that I disagree with is Herm. :mob:

-----------------------------------------------

It's not that I'm against free agents. They just have to be the right ones. Chances are, Haynesworth, Vilma, Dansby, Landry and Aso, probably won't get to free agency. Those players are really the only players worth the big money that they'll be asking for. Their teams are either going to sign them or franchise them.

Gross, the OT from Carolina is the only guy right now who i can see getting away from his current team. I'd love to sign him. He's young and WAAY better than McIntosh.

If those guys are all gone, there's really no point in going out and signing second tier players who are only going to take playing time away from our rookies. I think this team is good right now, but they're only 1 deep. There is absolutely zero talent sitting on the bench. If we can get another draft like the one we had in 2008, it would go a long way to establishing the depth that this team needs to be competitive.

I haven't really looked at the list of ending contracts (potential FAs). But I assume that you and I will differ on some players' value.

Sn@keIze
12-03-2008, 05:07 PM
Asomgha won't be franchised again, and he's unlikely to resign with Oakland. More than any other player out there, I want him on the Chiefs.
everybody wants him, hes a stud. theres no way hes going to be a chief tho.

But i dont care if you have Bailey, Asoumgha, Polumalu and Ed reed in the 2ndary. If The QB has all day, the recievers are going to get open. Our front 7 (pass rush)should be our main concern. Our DBs are awesome considering they work with the worse pass rush in NFL history.

jmlamerson
12-03-2008, 05:23 PM
everybody wants him, hes a stud. theres no way hes going to be a chief tho.

But i dont care if you have Bailey, Asoumgha, Polumalu and Ed reed in the 2ndary. If The QB has all day, the recievers are going to get open. Our front 7 (pass rush)should be our main concern. Our DBs are awesome considering they work with the worse pass rush in NFL history.

You're right, of course, except I think Bailey's massively overrated.

We will, however, have about $60M in cap room (recent projections) - I wouldn't mind throwing a bit of that Nnamdi's way and getting him to lock down the 1CB slot for the next seven years, moving Carr to the slot. Given how many teams run 3 WR sets nowadays, I'm not worried about any of them lacking work.

Right now, I think Carr is our best defensive player. He's done more this year than any veteran on the team. I couldn't be prouder of him.

theaxeeffect4311
12-05-2008, 04:00 PM
Asomgha won't be franchised again, and he's unlikely to resign with Oakland. More than any other player out there, I want him on the Chiefs.

I have to disagree. Al Davis will do whatever it takes to keep him. Part of the reason they cut DeAngelo Hall was to make cap room for Asomugha in the offseason. More than likely they'll hit him with another franchise tag.

theaxeeffect4311
12-05-2008, 04:12 PM
As far as Free Agents, the Chiefs will probably be looking at Terrel Suggs. He was franchise tagged this season, the Ravens have a player to replace him, and looks like he won't get resigned.He played DE in college so we could put him there. That would solidify the RDE spot with a player that will be 26 years old at the start of next season. Not to mention with his skill it could give us some versatility at DE to do crazy zone blitz where Suggs drops back into coverage.

If we get Jordan Gross that would be great. He would make a great RT. If we need a CB, I think Jabari Greer would be a good choice. If Vilma becomes a free agent, then we should definitely pick him up.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-05-2008, 06:35 PM
As far as Free Agents, the Chiefs will probably be looking at Terrel Suggs. He was franchise tagged this season, the Ravens have a player to replace him, and looks like he won't get resigned.He played DE in college so we could put him there. That would solidify the RDE spot with a player that will be 26 years old at the start of next season. Not to mention with his skill it could give us some versatility at DE to do crazy zone blitz where Suggs drops back into coverage.

If we get Jordan Gross that would be great. He would make a great RT. If we need a CB, I think Jabari Greer would be a good choice. If Vilma becomes a free agent, then we should definitely pick him up.
Now T. Suggs would be an outstanding addition to this Chiefs team!

jap1
12-05-2008, 06:53 PM
Now T. Suggs would be an outstanding addition to this Chiefs team!

Agreed. I think if we were able to get T. Suggs and Gross for RT we would have a really productive off-season. If Dorsey hits the weights hard this spring and we pick up a LB in the first two rounds I think these three moves would give us a chance to be competitive next year.

I just doubt CP can do something that successful. Lets hope he is smart enough to realize that if he can pull together some great talent in his last year, maybe his legacy wont be on of hate ... ok at least not as much hate.

tornadospotter
12-05-2008, 09:00 PM
If he comes out this year and the Chiefs decide to keep going with the spread, they really need to get this guy. He's obviously going to be the best spread QB in the draft and by far the best athlete/QB package available this year if he indeed decides to come out. That might also set up the Chiefs to take Shipley in the later rounds.

According to ESPN, McCoy will look into his draft feedback and could decide to come out early if he's expected to be a "first or second round pick."

Just saying, this could be something to consider if he falls to the 2nd round and if the Chiefs could get an additional 2nd round pick.

I am thinking, no and McCoy needs to stay in College.:11:
For our team, and in what ever order, we need to fix OL, LB, and DL first.

JMO :11:

Three7s
12-06-2008, 12:12 AM
I am thinking, no and McCoy needs to stay in College.:11:
For our team, and in what ever order, we need to fix OL, LB, and DL first.

JMO :11:
The D-line has to be fixed NOW! When you break the record for fewest amount of sacks in NFL history recorded in a season, it needs to be changed first. We can hold off on O-line until the 3rd round or so and get an OG.

theaxeeffect4311
12-07-2008, 06:53 AM
The D-line has to be fixed NOW! When you break the record for fewest amount of sacks in NFL history recorded in a season, it needs to be changed first. We can hold off on O-line until the 3rd round or so and get an OG.

You are right, but for immediate help the Chiefs need to look into free agency, not the draft. I say take the Chiefs the best player available for the first three rounds.

jmlamerson
12-07-2008, 01:04 PM
You are right, but for immediate help the Chiefs need to look into free agency, not the draft. I say take the Chiefs the best player available for the first three rounds.

Yep. If we draft DE high, all we'll hear is the same excuses about learning curves when our d-line doesn't get any better.

And I'm amazed people want to stick with McIntosh at RT next year, or they hope Jordan Gross comes here, despite his probably going to a 2009-2010 contender.

drstandley31
12-08-2008, 01:00 AM
If he comes out this year and the Chiefs decide to keep going with the spread, they really need to get this guy. He's obviously going to be the best spread QB in the draft and by far the best athlete/QB package available this year if he indeed decides to come out. That might also set up the Chiefs to take Shipley in the later rounds.

According to ESPN, McCoy will look into his draft feedback and could decide to come out early if he's expected to be a "first or second round pick."

Just saying, this could be something to consider if he falls to the 2nd round and if the Chiefs could get an additional 2nd round pick.
I didn't have the time to read everybody elses response to this thread, so I'm probably just repeating what others wrote. But for us to take a QB with our first pick would be disasterous. Thing will be a fine QB. We have too many other needs. It taks too long for a rookie QB to become good in the NFL and we've already wasted 3 years trying to rebuild. A rookie QB puts us back 2 more years. Either trade this low round 1st pick for some good players, or take someone that might fill one of the hundred weak spots we have. A QB choice in the first round would be stupid. And, if we need one there are too many quality QB's coming out over the next 2 years that won't require a first round pick.

greg3564
12-08-2008, 03:19 PM
McCoy to stay for senior season (http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/entries/2008/12/08/mccoy_to_stay_f.html)

By Suzanne Halliburton (shalliburton@statesman.com) | Monday, December 8, 2008, 12:59 PM



Longhorns quarterback Colt McCoy will stay for his senior season.


McCoy told the American-Statesman of his decision Monday.


“I’m not going anywhere,” McCoy said.



McCoy said he wants to play for a national championship, after falling one spot short of the title game this season.


“I’m coming back because we have a solid coaching staff,” he said. “And I’m coming back because I feel like I can develop the young receivers we have.”


McCoy said he will not “initiate” an evaluation with the NFL underclassmen committee. He said his coaches may ask for an evaluation for informational purposes, but he does not plan on asking them to do so.



McCoy is a redshirt junior. After this semester, he’ll have 12 hours remaining before he graduates. He said he’s planning on doing an internship this summer and will take a final course next fall, then graduate.

texaschief
12-10-2008, 11:15 AM
This could be the best thing for the Chiefs. This could allow the Chiefs the opportunity to develop the spread a little more over the spring, summer and next season while evaluating Thigpen's success running the offense and ultimately claiming the job. If Thigpen doesn't play well or gets hurt, the Chiefs probably are in the top 10 again next year and are in a position to draft the best QB who runs the spread offense in college.

Either that or take Harrell in the 6th or 7th this year and just insert him instead of Thigpen. :lol: