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Fin Fan In Cali
12-17-2008, 08:17 AM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/12/16/president-vermeil/

There’s a strong rumor making the rounds in league circles that former Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil could return as team president following the departure of long-time G.M., president, and COEO Carl Peterson.

jtandcrew
12-17-2008, 10:40 AM
For the love of all that is holy! I hope not! Cowher for GM/HC! :bananen_smilies046: :yahoo: btw.....Marty is already in town! The buzzards are already hovering! :lol: also, how a bout Holmegren when he gets fired?! :lol:

hardcorechiefsfan
12-17-2008, 04:08 PM
He didn't really do anything with the team, I hope not.

okikcfan
12-17-2008, 04:12 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/12/16/president-vermeil/

There’s a strong rumor making the rounds in league circles that former Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil could return as team president following the departure of long-time G.M., president, and COEO Carl Peterson.


Ahhhh, NO:lol:

Three7s
12-17-2008, 07:05 PM
This would be an absolutely HORRIBLE move. Vermeil is one of the reasons that we got into such a bad shape. His coaching skills are among the best, but he simply doesn't know how to build a defense at all, and is awful at managing a draft.

jmlamerson
12-17-2008, 07:19 PM
This would be an absolutely HORRIBLE move. Vermeil is one of the reasons that we got into such a bad shape. His coaching skills are among the best, but he simply doesn't know how to build a defense at all, and is awful at managing a draft.

I agree. Vermeil is a nice guy and a great coach, but he is not management material. We need a ruthless drill seargant in our front office. Vermiel drafted better than Herm, but that isn't saying a lot. I don't trust him to put talent on both sides of the field.

tornadospotter
12-17-2008, 07:43 PM
This would be an absolutely HORRIBLE move. Vermeil is one of the reasons that we got into such a bad shape. His coaching skills are among the best, but he simply doesn't know how to build a defense at all, and is awful at managing a draft.
:iagree:

I agree. Vermeil is a nice guy and a great coach, but he is not management material. We need a ruthless drill seargant in our front office. Vermiel drafted better than Herm, but that isn't saying a lot. I don't trust him to put talent on both sides of the field.
:sign0153: :sign0105:

chief31
12-17-2008, 08:51 PM
I'll take him. Noone would ever accuse that guy of not caring. :)

Chiefster
12-17-2008, 10:00 PM
I'll take him. Noone would ever accuse that guy of not caring. :)

Yup! For a second there I thought I was going to be the only voice of dissent. I actually would have no problem with DV.

Big Daddy Tek
12-17-2008, 10:14 PM
Dick Vermeil as President? Come on guys, Im trying to eat my dinner! OK, sorry Dicky, I love ya. But sorry guys, this is complete propaganda and it has and never will be talked about with Clark Hunt. The only guy that has ties to the Chiefs, that even has a chance of being the president would be Denny Thum. Any other hire would come from outside.

Chiefster
12-17-2008, 10:18 PM
Dick Vermeil as President? Come on guys, Im trying to eat my dinner! OK, sorry Dicky, I love ya. But sorry guys, this is complete propaganda and it has and never will be talked about with Clark Hunt. The only guy that has ties to the Chiefs, that even has a chance of being the president would be Denny Thum. Any other hire would come from outside.

Agreed, this will more then likely never be anything more then speculation.

jap1
12-18-2008, 02:11 AM
I agree. Vermeil is a nice guy and a great coach, but he is not management material. We need a ruthless drill seargant in our front office. Vermiel drafted better than Herm, but that isn't saying a lot. I don't trust him to put talent on both sides of the field.

A comparison. An asterisk means they are still in the league. A pound (#) sign means they are/were considered good players at some point. A $ sign means they are still on the Chiefs.

Vermeil: 2001-2005
2001:
Eric Downing (DT)
Snoop Minnis (WR)
Monty Beisel (LB) *
George Layne (RB)
Billy Baber (TE)
Derrick Blaylock (RB)
Alex Sulfsted (T)
Shaunard Harts (DB)
Tedrell Sands (DT)

2002:
Ryan Sims (DT) *
Eddie Freeman (DT)
Omar Easy (RB)
Scott Fujita (LB) */#
Maurice Rodriguez (no position listed on NFL.com, never played in a game)

2003:
Larry Johnson (RB) */#/$
Kawika Mitchell (LB) */#
Julian Battle (CB)
Brett Williams (T)
Jordan Black (G)
Jimmy Wilkerson (DE) *
Montique Sharpe (DT)
Willie Pile (DB)

2004:
Junior Siavii (DT)
Kris Wilson (TE) *
Travelle Wharton (G)
Keyaron Fox (LB) *
Samie Parker (WR)
Jared Allen (DE) */#
Jeris McIntyre (WR)
Kevin Sampson (T)

2005:
Derrick Johnson (OLB) */#/$
Dustin Colquitt (P) */#/$
Craphonso Thorpe (WR)
Boomer Grigsby (LB) *
Alphonso Hodge (WR)
Will Svitek (T)
Khari Long (DE)
James Kilian (?)
Jeremy Parquet (T) *

Total Picks: 39
Still in the league: 13
Good Players: 6
Still on Chiefs: 3
Percentage of Good Players: 15.38%

Herm Edwards Era:

2006:
Tamba Hali (DE) */$
Bernard Pollard (DB) */$
Brodie Croyle (QB) */$
Marcus Maxey (CB)
Tre Stallings (G)
Jeff Webb (WR) */$
Jarrad Page (DB) */$

2007
Dwayne Bowe (WR) */#/$
Turk McBride (DE) */$
Tank Tyler (DT) */$
Kolby Smith (RB) */$
Justin Medlock (K)
Herb Taylor (T) */$
Michael Allan (TE)

2008
Glenn Dorsey (DT) */$
Branden Albert (T) */#/$
Brandon Flowers (CB) */#/$
Jamaal Charles (RB) */$
Brad Cottam (TE) */$
DaJuan Morgan (S) */$
William Franklin (WR) */$
Brandon Carr (CB) */#/$
Barry Richardson (T) */$
Kevin Robinson (WR) */$
Brian Johnston (DE) */$
Mike Merritt (TE) */$

Total Picks: 26
Good Picks: 4
Percentage of Good Players: 15.38%

Time will tell on Herm's success rate. I think the fact that they have the same success rate, and one of Herm's class is still in their rookie year says something. Granted Peterson of course had a lot of negative effect. But also consider the fact that Vermeil traded away a lot of draft picks for veterans at or past their prime that lasted only one or two years.

You can interpret the statistics however you like. After all:
"Numbers are like people; torture them enough and they'll tell you anything."

Big Daddy Tek
12-18-2008, 03:22 AM
A comparison. An asterisk means they are still in the league. A pound (#) sign means they are/were considered good players at some point. A $ sign means they are still on the Chiefs.

Vermeil: 2001-2005
2001:
Eric Downing (DT)
Snoop Minnis (WR)
Monty Beisel (LB) *
George Layne (RB)
Billy Baber (TE)
Derrick Blaylock (RB)
Alex Sulfsted (T)
Shaunard Harts (DB)
Tedrell Sands (DT)

2002:
Ryan Sims (DT) *
Eddie Freeman (DT)
Omar Easy (RB)
Scott Fujita (LB) */#
Maurice Rodriguez (no position listed on NFL.com, never played in a game)

2003:
Larry Johnson (RB) */#/$
Kawika Mitchell (LB) */#
Julian Battle (CB)
Brett Williams (T)
Jordan Black (G)
Jimmy Wilkerson (DE) *
Montique Sharpe (DT)
Willie Pile (DB)

2004:
Junior Siavii (DT)
Kris Wilson (TE) *
Travelle Wharton (G)
Keyaron Fox (LB) *
Samie Parker (WR)
Jared Allen (DE) */#
Jeris McIntyre (WR)
Kevin Sampson (T)

2005:
Derrick Johnson (OLB) */#/$
Dustin Colquitt (P) */#/$
Craphonso Thorpe (WR)
Boomer Grigsby (LB) *
Alphonso Hodge (WR)
Will Svitek (T)
Khari Long (DE)
James Kilian (?)
Jeremy Parquet (T) *

Total Picks: 39
Still in the league: 13
Good Players: 6
Still on Chiefs: 3
Percentage of Good Players: 15.38%

Herm Edwards Era:

2006:
Tamba Hali (DE) */$
Bernard Pollard (DB) */$
Brodie Croyle (QB) */$
Marcus Maxey (CB)
Tre Stallings (G)
Jeff Webb (WR) */$
Jarrad Page (DB) */$

2007
Dwayne Bowe (WR) */#/$
Turk McBride (DE) */$
Tank Tyler (DT) */$
Kolby Smith (RB) */$
Justin Medlock (K)
Herb Taylor (T) */$
Michael Allan (TE)

2008
Glenn Dorsey (DT) */$
Branden Albert (T) */#/$
Brandon Flowers (CB) */#/$
Jamaal Charles (RB) */$
Brad Cottam (TE) */$
DaJuan Morgan (S) */$
William Franklin (WR) */$
Brandon Carr (CB) */#/$
Barry Richardson (T) */$
Kevin Robinson (WR) */$
Brian Johnston (DE) */$
Mike Merritt (TE) */$

Total Picks: 26
Good Picks: 4
Percentage of Good Players: 15.38%

Time will tell on Herm's success rate. I think the fact that they have the same success rate, and one of Herm's class is still in their rookie year says something. Granted Peterson of course had a lot of negative effect. But also consider the fact that Vermeil traded away a lot of draft picks for veterans at or past their prime that lasted only one or two years.

You can interpret the statistics however you like. After all:
"Numbers are like people; torture them enough and they'll tell you anything."

Wow, great job on the research. That is pretty informative. Private message me, cause I think you might be able to help me with something if your willing.

texaschief
12-18-2008, 04:45 AM
A comparison. An asterisk means they are still in the league. A pound (#) sign means they are/were considered good players at some point. A $ sign means they are still on the Chiefs.

Vermeil: 2001-2005
2001:
Eric Downing (DT)
Snoop Minnis (WR)
Monty Beisel (LB) *
George Layne (RB)
Billy Baber (TE)
Derrick Blaylock (RB)
Alex Sulfsted (T)
Shaunard Harts (DB)
Tedrell Sands (DT)

2002:
Ryan Sims (DT) *
Eddie Freeman (DT)
Omar Easy (RB)
Scott Fujita (LB) */#
Maurice Rodriguez (no position listed on NFL.com, never played in a game)

2003:
Larry Johnson (RB) */#/$
Kawika Mitchell (LB) */#
Julian Battle (CB)
Brett Williams (T)
Jordan Black (G)
Jimmy Wilkerson (DE) *
Montique Sharpe (DT)
Willie Pile (DB)

2004:
Junior Siavii (DT)
Kris Wilson (TE) *
Travelle Wharton (G)
Keyaron Fox (LB) *
Samie Parker (WR)
Jared Allen (DE) */#
Jeris McIntyre (WR)
Kevin Sampson (T)

2005:
Derrick Johnson (OLB) */#/$
Dustin Colquitt (P) */#/$
Craphonso Thorpe (WR)
Boomer Grigsby (LB) *
Alphonso Hodge (WR)
Will Svitek (T)
Khari Long (DE)
James Kilian (?)
Jeremy Parquet (T) *

Total Picks: 39
Still in the league: 13
Good Players: 6
Still on Chiefs: 3
Percentage of Good Players: 15.38%

Herm Edwards Era:

2006:
Tamba Hali (DE) */$
Bernard Pollard (DB) */$
Brodie Croyle (QB) */$
Marcus Maxey (CB)
Tre Stallings (G)
Jeff Webb (WR) */$
Jarrad Page (DB) */$

2007
Dwayne Bowe (WR) */#/$
Turk McBride (DE) */$
Tank Tyler (DT) */$
Kolby Smith (RB) */$
Justin Medlock (K)
Herb Taylor (T) */$
Michael Allan (TE)

2008
Glenn Dorsey (DT) */$
Branden Albert (T) */#/$
Brandon Flowers (CB) */#/$
Jamaal Charles (RB) */$
Brad Cottam (TE) */$
DaJuan Morgan (S) */$
William Franklin (WR) */$
Brandon Carr (CB) */#/$
Barry Richardson (T) */$
Kevin Robinson (WR) */$
Brian Johnston (DE) */$
Mike Merritt (TE) */$

Total Picks: 26
Good Picks: 4
Percentage of Good Players: 15.38%

Time will tell on Herm's success rate. I think the fact that they have the same success rate, and one of Herm's class is still in their rookie year says something. Granted Peterson of course had a lot of negative effect. But also consider the fact that Vermeil traded away a lot of draft picks for veterans at or past their prime that lasted only one or two years.

You can interpret the statistics however you like. After all:
"Numbers are like people; torture them enough and they'll tell you anything."

Numbers are numbers, right? Go back over Vermeil's list and count how many players made it to their 3rd and 4th years in the league. How many UFA's was Dick able to identify and bring in to start or even contribute for the team? How many of Herm's players are still in the league or were considered (by you) "good players?" While there isn't much to go on from Herm's drafts in Kansas City, his evaluation and drafting "numbers" are MUCH better than Vermeil's.

Vermeil can not be trusted to run any facet of this organization. If anything, perhaps Hunt flew him in to get his opinion on some people he's considering. Vermeil would be a good person to talk to about people around the league considering he's been around the NFL for 40 years and has met so many people. He'd be a GREAT reference.

jap1
12-18-2008, 05:07 AM
Texaschief,

You are preaching to the choir. I was trying to be objective or even slightly Vermeil friendly. My intention was to show that Herm has had AT WORST an equal draft record in KC when compared to Vermeil, and Herm's players have not even had time to develop. If I came off sounding like I was in favor of Vermeil, and my analysis showed no difference, then I guess I was successful.

I did not include how many of Herm's players are still in the league because they are almost all still in their rookie contract, so are still in the league. But the number is 22 in case you were interested.

In my opinion, Vermeil is a good (maybe not great) coach, but by no means will he be a good GM. Especially as emotional and attached to players as he can be. He seems like someone who would not be able to separate emotions from business.

Canada
12-18-2008, 08:58 AM
DV for president and get a new GM.

jmlamerson
12-18-2008, 10:50 AM
A comparison. An asterisk means they are still in the league. A pound (#) sign means they are/were considered good players at some point. A $ sign means they are still on the Chiefs.

Vermeil: 2001-2005
2001:
Eric Downing (DT)
Snoop Minnis (WR)
Monty Beisel (LB) *
George Layne (RB)
Billy Baber (TE)
Derrick Blaylock (RB)
Alex Sulfsted (T)
Shaunard Harts (DB)
Tedrell Sands (DT)

2002:
Ryan Sims (DT) *
Eddie Freeman (DT)
Omar Easy (RB)
Scott Fujita (LB) */#
Maurice Rodriguez (no position listed on NFL.com, never played in a game)

2003:
Larry Johnson (RB) */#/$
Kawika Mitchell (LB) */#
Julian Battle (CB)
Brett Williams (T)
Jordan Black (G)
Jimmy Wilkerson (DE) *
Montique Sharpe (DT)
Willie Pile (DB)

2004:
Junior Siavii (DT)
Kris Wilson (TE) *
Travelle Wharton (G)
Keyaron Fox (LB) *
Samie Parker (WR)
Jared Allen (DE) */#
Jeris McIntyre (WR)
Kevin Sampson (T)

2005:
Derrick Johnson (OLB) */#/$
Dustin Colquitt (P) */#/$
Craphonso Thorpe (WR)
Boomer Grigsby (LB) *
Alphonso Hodge (WR)
Will Svitek (T)
Khari Long (DE)
James Kilian (?)
Jeremy Parquet (T) *

Total Picks: 39
Still in the league: 13
Good Players: 6
Still on Chiefs: 3
Percentage of Good Players: 15.38%

Herm Edwards Era:

2006:
Tamba Hali (DE) */$
Bernard Pollard (DB) */$
Brodie Croyle (QB) */$
Marcus Maxey (CB)
Tre Stallings (G)
Jeff Webb (WR) */$
Jarrad Page (DB) */$

2007
Dwayne Bowe (WR) */#/$
Turk McBride (DE) */$
Tank Tyler (DT) */$
Kolby Smith (RB) */$
Justin Medlock (K)
Herb Taylor (T) */$
Michael Allan (TE)

2008
Glenn Dorsey (DT) */$
Branden Albert (T) */#/$
Brandon Flowers (CB) */#/$
Jamaal Charles (RB) */$
Brad Cottam (TE) */$
DaJuan Morgan (S) */$
William Franklin (WR) */$
Brandon Carr (CB) */#/$
Barry Richardson (T) */$
Kevin Robinson (WR) */$
Brian Johnston (DE) */$
Mike Merritt (TE) */$

Total Picks: 26
Good Picks: 4
Percentage of Good Players: 15.38%

Time will tell on Herm's success rate. I think the fact that they have the same success rate, and one of Herm's class is still in their rookie year says something. Granted Peterson of course had a lot of negative effect. But also consider the fact that Vermeil traded away a lot of draft picks for veterans at or past their prime that lasted only one or two years.

You can interpret the statistics however you like. After all:
"Numbers are like people; torture them enough and they'll tell you anything."

Extemely good analysis. I think that you do have to take into account that Herm ditched three of Vermiel's draft picks in Mitchell, Wilkerson, and JA (they didn't leave, they were traded or refused new contracts) when analyzing the benefit to the Chiefs. I also think that Wilkerson is a good player who was underappreciated by the current regime. He'd be, by far, our best player on the DL this year if they'd kept him. You also have to remember that one of Vermiel's trades was Trent Green, who was the best Chiefs QB since Len Dawson, and one was Surtain who has been a decent CB for us until the past couple years.

Also, as Herm's draft classes roookie contracts expire, you'll see the number of folks no longer on the team (probably Croyle, Webb, and Page after this offseason, at least).

Remember, I did say that Vermeil would be a bad GM because he didn't draft well.

Great analysis that shows the weaknesses of the Chiefs drafts the past eight years. More than anything, we need a GM who will draft well in the future.

Seek
12-18-2008, 01:57 PM
DV was on 610 this morning. He stated that the rumor was completely false and has not been in any contact with the Chiefs. He also stated that he is not a type of person who could run a company like the Chiefs. He can handle the football side of a business but that is it.

Chieffaninfl
12-18-2008, 09:56 PM
That would be the worst idea ever, DV is a horrible drafter, he has no idea how to run a defense let alone draft for 1. Holmgren, Cowher, thats what we need. If youre going to take DV you may as well take Millen.

chief31
12-18-2008, 11:20 PM
Numbers are numbers, right? Go back over Vermeil's list and count how many players made it to their 3rd and 4th years in the league. How many UFA's was Dick able to identify and bring in to start or even contribute for the team? How many of Herm's players are still in the league or were considered (by you) "good players?" While there isn't much to go on from Herm's drafts in Kansas City, his evaluation and drafting "numbers" are MUCH better than Vermeil's.

Vermeil can not be trusted to run any facet of this organization. If anything, perhaps Hunt flew him in to get his opinion on some people he's considering. Vermeil would be a good person to talk to about people around the league considering he's been around the NFL for 40 years and has met so many people. He'd be a GREAT reference.

If numbers are numbers, then how about comparing W/L percentages?

Oh... because then we have to drag out all of the excuses. Numbers are then mis-leading, hunh?

Vermiel for President, not GM.

The only thing that I dislike about Vermiel for President is that he likes Herm.

I would much rather see Cowher as our coach, than Vermiel as President though. So I have a better idea than DV in mind. :D

texaschief
12-18-2008, 11:48 PM
What makes everyone believe Vermeil would be a good President? What has he done that stands out as a guy that makes you think, "oh yeah, he'd be great at running a franchise's business dealings?

My vote would be for Carl Peterson. What he did to put KC on the map in the 90's was incredible. I thought he was a great Executive and President. He just blew as a GM. But, I'd be completely against bringing Vermeil in to do ANYTHING for this franchise ever again.

nigeriannightmare
12-19-2008, 01:18 AM
What makes everyone believe Vermeil would be a good President? What has he done that stands out as a guy that makes you think, "oh yeah, he'd be great at running a franchise's business dealings?

My vote would be for Carl Peterson. What he did to put KC on the map in the 90's was incredible. I thought he was a great Executive and President. He just blew as a GM. But, I'd be completely against bringing Vermeil in to do ANYTHING for this franchise ever again.


So you are willing to give Herm the benefit of the doubt because of his 2 playoff wins and a couple of winning seasons, but you can't fathom the idea of a guy who has won a superbowl and gave us a 13-3 season a shot doing anything for the Chiefs. I don't get your rationale at all, makes no sense whatsoever.