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View Full Version : D*mnit, Thigpen



loyalchief91
12-21-2008, 04:21 PM
He and the Defense lost us this game. Inadvertly the D did come up with that Ricky Williams fumble.. Then thigpen throws another int.. So I'm off the bandwagon for him the kid is not bright 3 INTS inexcusable

RatherDashing
12-21-2008, 04:26 PM
I will not place the blame on Tyler. Even though their last two drives ended in five consecutive incompletions and one interception.

Whomever had the idea of passing on 4th and inches really deserves to be unemployed right now. What ignorant coaching in the fourth half.

okikcfan
12-21-2008, 04:29 PM
I will not place the blame on Tyler. Even though their last two drives ended in five consecutive incompletions and one interception.

Whomever had the idea of passing on 4th and inches really deserves to be unemployed right now. What ignorant coaching in the fourth half.


Can you say "Herm Edwards?"

mejohnm
12-21-2008, 04:40 PM
I watched the game and they said the wind was really bad... how bad is it really? Wish I could come to a Cheifs game, but doubt the wife would let me fly from Germany just for a game.

As for Thigpen, I say he is good. Look at Atlanta, their rookie QB has also hit 3 or more INT in one game too. I know that other QB will be healthy next year, but Thigpen really did well. Besides, my friends and I (we watch the Chiefs every Sunday) think the coaching wants the Cheifs to lose for better draft position... but maybe that is just us with little understanding of the draft....

jap1
12-21-2008, 05:03 PM
He was impressive his first couple of games in the spread. Especially for someone who has never started a game. But he never improved from there. I dont know if he doesnt have it in him or if our QB coaches are horrible (probably a little bit of both, I know our QB coach is horrible).

He locks onto receivers, then tries to force it into double, triple coverage. Im starting to think he may not be the QB of next year, let alone the future.

Then again you cannot expect too much success running a spread offense in freezing gusty weather. This is when a dominant O-line and running game is really missed.

jb908
12-21-2008, 05:20 PM
You can't put a loss on a quarterback that plays for a 2 win team. He is the only bright light this team has seen all year. Interceptions are something that is going to happen to rookie quarterbacks and it's best he learns from them this year and not next year. After all, Brett Farve threw 17 of them and he made the pro bowl. jk.. haha

hardcorechiefsfan
12-21-2008, 05:44 PM
Can you say "Herm Edwards?"
It wasn't Herm's fault.

I watched the game and they said the wind was really bad... how bad is it really? Wish I could come to a Cheifs game, but doubt the wife would let me fly from Germany just for a game.

As for Thigpen, I say he is good. Look at Atlanta, their rookie QB has also hit 3 or more INT in one game too. I know that other QB will be healthy next year, but Thigpen really did well. Besides, my friends and I (we watch the Chiefs every Sunday) think the coaching wants the Cheifs to lose for better draft position... but maybe that is just us with little understanding of the draft....
The Miami win was good for the chiefs, we played some good ball for a little while. I admit that a win for the chiefs would have been nice but hey, we can trade for a worse draft spot if need be.

He was impressive his first couple of games in the spread. Especially for someone who has never started a game. But he never improved from there. I dont know if he doesnt have it in him or if our QB coaches are horrible (probably a little bit of both, I know our QB coach is horrible).
He locks onto receivers, then tries to force it into double, triple coverage. Im starting to think he may not be the QB of next year, let alone the future.
Then again you cannot expect too much success running a spread offense in freezing gusty weather. This is when a dominant O-line and running game is really missed.
I agree and I don't think that Thiggie should be the starting QB next season, of course you may be right about the QB coach

You can't put a loss on a quarterback that plays for a 2 win team. He is the only bright light this team has seen all year. Interceptions are something that is going to happen to rookie quarterbacks and it's best he learns from them this year and not next year. After all, Brett Farve threw 17 of them and he made the pro bowl. jk.. haha
Favre is a all-around sentimental favorite.

PawnshopMarimba
12-21-2008, 07:49 PM
Yeah, you can't really blame a quarterback for having a bad game today.

A) Ever tried to throw a football in sub zero temperatures? It's completely different. Your fingers hurt from the cold, or are completely numb. I don't care what kinda heat packs they have. Pennington did better than Thig in this department, but Chad has TONS more experience in this kind of weather than Tyler. He spent a great deal of time in New York, remember?

Anyway, you can't feel your hands, so you can't grip the ball quite the same way. The result is awkward looking lame-duck passes that don't go where they should.


2) 20+ MPH wind gusts. Nuff said.


3) Cold weather makes a football as hard as a rock. This will also affect your grip on the ball, and thus also affect your throws.

4) It's just a wee bit difficult to maintain focus when you're chilled to the bone. Again, something that can be better managed with proper experience in the league.

Take it easy on the guy. He made some good plays too.

Guru
12-21-2008, 07:59 PM
Thigpen is the least of our problems right now.

greg3564
12-21-2008, 08:01 PM
I'm not sure what you expect from a second year QB and first year starter who's only started 10 games. I thought he did okay. He threw 2 TD's, rushed for a TD and had 320 yards passing. Considering what he has to work with and play for(Herm), he's doing well.

Now the defense on the other hand sucked big time. They gave up 403 yards. 170 on the ground and 230 through the air. How Gunther keeps his job next season is beyond me, as I think he will be let go and rightfully so.

Guru
12-21-2008, 08:03 PM
I'm not sure what you expect from a second year QB and first year starter who's only started 10 games. I thought he did okay. He threw 2 TD's, rushed for a TD and had 320 yards passing. Considering what he has to work with and play for(Herm), he's doing well.

Now the defense on the other hand sucked big time. They gave up 403 yards. 170 on the ground and 230 through the air. How Gunther keeps his job next season is beyond me, as I think he will be let go and rightfully so.
THIS:sign0098:

Coach
12-21-2008, 08:52 PM
I'm not sure what you expect from a second year QB and first year starter who's only started 10 games. I thought he did okay. He threw 2 TD's, rushed for a TD and had 320 yards passing. Considering what he has to work with and play for(Herm), he's doing well.

Now the defense on the other hand sucked big time. They gave up 403 yards. 170 on the ground and 230 through the air. How Gunther keeps his job next season is beyond me, as I think he will be let go and rightfully so.
This was the worst game I have seen Thigpen play. But it really isn't all that surprising given the conditions. I also agree that Gunther is on the hot seat. I think Gunther has more to worry about with a new GM than Herm does. In fact, I'd be willing to bet money that Gunther will not be the DC next year.

Bike
12-21-2008, 08:56 PM
It was definetely the worse 2nd half he's played. But it WAS a cold somebich out there...

theaxeeffect4311
12-21-2008, 09:20 PM
I got to put this one on coaching. Like someone already pointed out, who calls for a pass play on fourth and inches? Isn't that the reason we have Larry Johnson. But the Chiefs came into the game knowing it was going to be one of the coldest games ever played in Arrowhead. So why was the game plan to pass the ball down field. Larry Johnson had 12 carries for 108 yards and one touchdown. You think they would have came into the game thinking run, run, and run some more. I know the Dolphins defense is good, but you have to take in account the weather when making a game plan.

Then why Herm chose not to practice outside at least once this week, I am not sure. Maybe if they did, they would have realized that throwing the ball would not be easy in this game. Well, you can only hope they learn, but you never know when it comes to the Chiefs' coaches. He said something about the weather,
EDWARDS: ďItís not like weíre used to it. People are not used to playing in those kinds of conditions. We donít practice in it a lot because you donít get anything out of practice with guys all bundled up and canít move. Itís a mental deal, itís a mental challenge.Ē

Yes, the weather has nothing to do with the physical deal. The Chiefs must have lost that mental challenge.

Big Daddy Tek
12-22-2008, 12:19 AM
I got to put this one on coaching. Like someone already pointed out, who calls for a pass play on fourth and inches? Isn't that the reason we have Larry Johnson. But the Chiefs came into the game knowing it was going to be one of the coldest games ever played in Arrowhead. So why was the game plan to pass the ball down field. Larry Johnson had 12 carries for 108 yards and one touchdown. You think they would have came into the game thinking run, run, and run some more. I know the Dolphins defense is good, but you have to take in account the weather when making a game plan.

Then why Herm chose not to practice outside at least once this week, I am not sure. Maybe if they did, they would have realized that throwing the ball would not be easy in this game. Well, you can only hope they learn, but you never know when it comes to the Chiefs' coaches. He said something about the weather,
EDWARDS: ďItís not like weíre used to it. People are not used to playing in those kinds of conditions. We donít practice in it a lot because you donít get anything out of practice with guys all bundled up and canít move. Itís a mental deal, itís a mental challenge.Ē

Yes, the weather has nothing to do with the physical deal. The Chiefs must have lost that mental challenge.

I too think that their were errors in the coaching today, but I dont agree with the points that you made. First of all, passing was easy for the most part today. Thigpen had a career day in yardage and we put up 4 touchdowns in the first half. Secong of all, as far as the thread that you read saying the Chiefs averaged 9 yards a carry, why didnt we run the ball more? The reason why we averaged 9 yards a carry is because all of our runs come from gimmike bullsh!t. We run counters and draws and run out of the pistol. Thats why those plays are so effective. We flat out do not have the talent on the offensive line, to line up in a power formation and just run the ball. Thats why this whole spread formation got started in the first place. We have to pass to stay in games. Herm is the most conservative son of a gun that you will ever see. If his team is passing 30 times a game, thats because they have to. The play action call that you hated so much was a run / pass option for Thigpen and it would have worked perfect if Thigpen wouldnt have fallen on his a$$. Thats one of the reasons that this thread is called Dammit Thigpen!

skp
12-22-2008, 12:40 AM
Come one guys. Don't lay this one on Thigpen. The guy scored 31 points on us. How much more can you expect? Sure - we outscored you, but that's on your defense. Thigpen played a great game, and if you want to blame someone, it will have to be your defense for allowing us to score that much on on you. Frankly, most of the Miami pundits thought Thigpen played a *great* game.
Sure, he did look like maybe he folded under preasure a little bit in the 4th, but hey, when you guys did score, you just marched right up the field on us.
I'd say as long as you can get your defense sorted next year, you should be just fine!

Fin Fan In Cali
12-22-2008, 12:40 AM
I was impressed with Thigpen. I think he has a bright future with this organization. I know it was a loss, but your team battled back the whole game in very bad conditions. Things will get a lot better. Trust me when you have good football people come in like we did in Bill, Jeff, and Tony, it will make a world of difference for you. Best of luck in 2009. If we can do it, your team can to.:bananen_smilies046:

Three7s
12-22-2008, 12:56 AM
I too think that their were errors in the coaching today, but I dont agree with the points that you made. First of all, passing was easy for the most part today. Thigpen had a career day in yardage and we put up 4 touchdowns in the first half. Secong of all, as far as the thread that you read saying the Chiefs averaged 9 yards a carry, why didnt we run the ball more? The reason why we averaged 9 yards a carry is because all of our runs come from gimmike bullsh!t. We run counters and draws and run out of the pistol. Thats why those plays are so effective. We flat out do not have the talent on the offensive line, to line up in a power formation and just run the ball. Thats why this whole spread formation got started in the first place. We have to pass to stay in games. Herm is the most conservative son of a gun that you will ever see. If his team is passing 30 times a game, thats because they have to. The play action call that you hated so much was a run / pass option for Thigpen and it would have worked perfect if Thigpen wouldnt have fallen on his a$$. Thats one of the reasons that this thread is called Dammit Thigpen!
I was surprised we didn't run, but it would've been interesting to see what would've happened if the play materialized. Also, I can't blame Thigpen for falling, from what I saw guys were slipping and sliding all over the place from both teams, just a bad break for us.

theaxeeffect4311
12-22-2008, 01:02 AM
I too think that their were errors in the coaching today, but I dont agree with the points that you made. First of all, passing was easy for the most part today. Thigpen had a career day in yardage and we put up 4 touchdowns in the first half. Secong of all, as far as the thread that you read saying the Chiefs averaged 9 yards a carry, why didnt we run the ball more? The reason why we averaged 9 yards a carry is because all of our runs come from gimmike bullsh!t. We run counters and draws and run out of the pistol. Thats why those plays are so effective. We flat out do not have the talent on the offensive line, to line up in a power formation and just run the ball. Thats why this whole spread formation got started in the first place. We have to pass to stay in games. Herm is the most conservative son of a gun that you will ever see. If his team is passing 30 times a game, thats because they have to. The play action call that you hated so much was a run / pass option for Thigpen and it would have worked perfect if Thigpen wouldnt have fallen on his a$$. Thats one of the reasons that this thread is called Dammit Thigpen!

You say we run gimmick plays for runs, but if they work, then why stop doing them? I know Thigpen threw for a career high, but at the same time, how many times did you see him throw a deep pass? Not a smart call on whoever is calling the plays. The thing is Herm calls plays to try to fool the other team but he ends up fooling our own team. Thigpen did make some mistakes, but you cannot put this game on him. The other team did score 38 points on us. But you can start blaming him next week when he willl be starting at DE and QB.

Big Daddy Tek
12-22-2008, 02:54 AM
You say we run gimmick plays for runs, but if they work, then why stop doing them? I know Thigpen threw for a career high, but at the same time, how many times did you see him throw a deep pass? Not a smart call on whoever is calling the plays. The thing is Herm calls plays to try to fool the other team but he ends up fooling our own team. Thigpen did make some mistakes, but you cannot put this game on him. The other team did score 38 points on us. But you can start blaming him next week when he willl be starting at DE and QB.

first, Those plays work because we never run. If we ran all the time, they wouldnt work. Second, Herm doesnt call the plays. Third, as far as the defense goes........... they suck tremendously. They should have much more prepared by the coaches, so Ill give you that one.

mejohnm
12-22-2008, 03:23 AM
I was also wondering about some of these plays that Thigpen had to do. Could it had been to see how well he does it? I mean, we lost the season, why not use the remaining games to see what the team can do?

texaschief
12-22-2008, 03:33 AM
The first time the Patriots gave up 66 pts to this offense this year, 28 of it coming the second time they saw it. This was the 10th ranked offense against the worst defense and the Chiefs led most of the game even with 4 turnovers. I can tell you from experience that throwing a football in even 32 degree weather is incredibly difficult. I couldn't even IMAGINE how tough that was today!!

Yeah, he threw a couple INTs, but he had a career day passing the ball and making plays. I'd be more inclined to blame the weather more than poor decision making for his mistakes today. Plus, this is his what, 10th game? Who here thought developing a QB would be easy and painless?

Cutler and Rivers are considered two of the best QBs in the league.
Cutler threw 14 picks last year with 20 TDs and 16 already this year with 24 TDs. His completion % was 63.6 and 61.9 his first two years starting.
Rivers sat for 2 full season behind Drew Breese. When he became the starter, he threw 9 INTs and 22 TDs, then 15 picks and 21 TDs his first two years as the starter. His completion % his first two years was 61.7 and 60.3.
Compare those numbers with Thigpen who has thrown 12 picks and 19 TDs with a completion % of 59.4. He compares favorably to both those QBs.
Jamarcus Russell has 7 picks and 11 TDs this season with a 51.2 completion %.

Thigpen compares favorably to the rest of the developing QBs in this division. He deserves a shot next season.

tornadospotter
12-22-2008, 03:38 AM
Thigpen is the least of our problems right now.


Come one guys. Don't lay this one on Thigpen. The guy scored 31 points on us. How much more can you expect? Sure - we outscored you, but that's on your defense. Thigpen played a great game, and if you want to blame someone, it will have to be your defense for allowing us to score that much on on you. Frankly, most of the Miami pundits thought Thigpen played a *great* game.
Sure, he did look like maybe he folded under preasure a little bit in the 4th, but hey, when you guys did score, you just marched right up the field on us.
I'd say as long as you can get your defense sorted next year, you should be just fine!
:bananen_smilies046: To your team, I hope you make it to the play offs.


I was impressed with Thigpen. I think he has a bright future with this organization. I know it was a loss, but your team battled back the whole game in very bad conditions. Things will get a lot better. Trust me when you have good football people come in like we did in Bill, Jeff, and Tony, it will make a world of difference for you. Best of luck in 2009. If we can do it, your team can to.:bananen_smilies046:
I like Thig, I think he can be what we need, I just hope that what ever coaching changes are made, we keep Chan, and build on this potential QB we have found.

JMDChiefs58
12-22-2008, 07:50 AM
He and the Defense lost us this game. Inadvertly the D did come up with that Ricky Williams fumble.. Then thigpen throws another int.. So I'm off the bandwagon for him the kid is not bright 3 INTS inexcusable

Total Bull$hit , Tyler did not lose this game. Even Joe Montana threw INT's , it happens. What lost this game was once again the piss poor play calling. Why would you call a roll out pass play on 4th and 1 with the game on the line when you have LJ in the back field?

MORONIC PLAY CALLING LOST THIS GAME.

THIGPEN IS GOING TO BE A VERY GOOD IF NOT GREAT QB.

jerhart
12-22-2008, 08:02 AM
I agree with may posts on here...

...it's not Tyler's fault. 31 pts should win you most football games AT HOME. I point fingers at the D.

..everyone needs to relax with the whole QB situation...IMO, we have made improvements at our QB position compared to where we were at the beginning of the season...you can't say that for many other positions on our team.

Guru
12-22-2008, 10:21 AM
I was surprised we didn't run, but it would've been interesting to see what would've happened if the play materialized. Also, I can't blame Thigpen for falling, from what I saw guys were slipping and sliding all over the place from both teams, just a bad break for us.
He wouldn't have slipped if it were on field turf. I saw people slipping for both teams all day.

tornadospotter
12-22-2008, 10:28 AM
He wouldn't have slipped if it were on field turf. I saw people slipping for both teams all day.
Dang soccer loving Clark! :11:

texaschief
12-22-2008, 11:34 AM
A bootleg is actually a good play call because it's only one yard to gain and the QB has the option to hit the open receiver or tuck it down and scramble for a yard. If they weren't playing on a rock hard surface, Thigpen doesn't slip and probably gets the first. Simply saying you have LJ in the backfield doesn't assure you of a first down. He's done jack sh!# all season. It seems a little disingenuous to think after an entire 2nd half where he didn't do ANYTHING, that he could just all of a sudden be counted on for a "sure thing first down."

Thigpen is our offensive play maker and I'd rather have the ball in HIS hands at the end of the game.

Guru
12-22-2008, 01:20 PM
A bootleg is actually a good play call because it's only one yard to gain and the QB has the option to hit the open receiver or tuck it down and scramble for a yard. If they weren't playing on a rock hard surface, Thigpen doesn't slip and probably gets the first. Simply saying you have LJ in the backfield doesn't assure you of a first down. He's done jack sh!# all season. It seems a little disingenuous to think after an entire 2nd half where he didn't do ANYTHING, that he could just all of a sudden be counted on for a "sure thing first down."

Thigpen is our offensive play maker and I'd rather have the ball in HIS hands at the end of the game.
I agreed with the play call all the way. I think Thiggy should have just taken off though rather than trying to make it look like a pass. That hole was a mile wide at the snap.

theaxeeffect4311
12-22-2008, 06:11 PM
A bootleg is actually a good play call because it's only one yard to gain and the QB has the option to hit the open receiver or tuck it down and scramble for a yard. If they weren't playing on a rock hard surface, Thigpen doesn't slip and probably gets the first. Simply saying you have LJ in the backfield doesn't assure you of a first down. He's done jack sh!# all season. It seems a little disingenuous to think after an entire 2nd half where he didn't do ANYTHING, that he could just all of a sudden be counted on for a "sure thing first down."

Thigpen is our offensive play maker and I'd rather have the ball in HIS hands at the end of the game.

It's a good call on any other game. The thing is that kind of weather had people slipping on the field. When it comes to play calling, you have to take into account the weather. Like when it is cold outside, do you opt for the 40 yard field goal or go for it on fourth down. It's smart to go for it since the ball is heavy and the kicker has not been asked to play in this kind of weather before. Same thing for that fourth and one. Like you said, all we needed was one yard. So line up in the pistol, spread out three receivers and Tony out wide, and hope that you get a favorable matchup for the O-line. Then just have LJ run it up the gut or have Thigpen run. It's just one of those things where I think we try too hard to trick the other team, but end up fooling ourselves.

jap1
12-23-2008, 01:25 PM
For those who say we should have ran with LJ up the gut for that 4th and 1. Werent you guys the same ones who said we should have passed on 4th and 1 a few weeks ago? Im not a Herm lover, but I think it was a good call. LJ had just as much of a chance of slipping as Thigpen did. Yeah LJ had a 9 ypc avg, but almost all of that was running outside the tackles on passing downs. Our line cannot give a push up the middle to give LJ room to get that yard. Almost every time this year we have tried to run for only a yard we ended up getting our line blown back into LJ's face and he couldnt do anything.