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View Full Version : (Scenario 2) New GM, Herm goes



texaschief
12-28-2008, 06:54 AM
There's all this talk about what's going to happen in free agency and the draft. It really is a waste of time when so much still has to be decided. It's obvious that there's only two things that can happen here. Either the new GM keeps Herm or gets rid of him. In scenario 2, the new GM fires Herm.

This thread is for ideas if the Chiefs fire Herm.
Who is the new GM?
Who is the new Coach
Who is on his staff?
What offensive system do they go with?
Who plays QB?
Who gets cut, traded and signed?
Who gets drafted to fill needs?

theaxeeffect4311
12-28-2008, 07:45 AM
I know it's all speculation at this point, but I guess I'll take a whack at it.

This thread is for ideas if the Chiefs fire Herm.
Who is the new GM? Scott Pioli, VP of Player Personnel of NE
Who is the new Coach? Josh Daniels, offensive coordinator of NE or Steve Spagnuolo, defensive coordinator of NYG (the way I see it, the new head coach will be a first time head coach if Pioli is chosen)
Who is on his staff? No idea. Too hard to tell. But more than likely Gunther will be gone. Chan Gailey will probably stay though.
What offensive system do they go with? Depends on the draft, but I see the Chiefs continuing the spread/pistol for another season, at least until they can clean up the defense
Who plays QB? Thigpen (I may be biased on this one because I think Thigpen deserves one season to prove what he can do, especially if he has competent coaching.
Who gets cut, traded and signed? Probably more purging of the older/veteran players. Sadly, Donnie Edwards will retire. McIntosh, Surtain, Ron Edwards, Huard should be gone. Croyle might stay at a low price, who knows. I like Gray as a backup QB, he serves the part well. The Chiefs will probably not re-sign Webb, since I barely see him on the field anymore. Niswanger will re-sign as a back-up, but may compete for a starting position. Kolby Smith will re-sign cheap because he is not starting material yet. I think Tony will stay, especially if Thigpen is the QB. LJ will be traded, but the Chiefs may only get a third round.
As for players to sign for FA,
Terrell Suggs, DE
Jonathan Vilma, ILB
An O-line player of some sort: the Chiefs would hit big if they can get either Jason Peters, Jordan Gross, or Vernon Carey, in that order

Of course if the Chiefs add Haynesworth, Asomugha, or a receiver would be nice for the Chiefs but not a necessity
Who gets drafted to fill needs?
1.Either OLB Aaron Curry or ILB Rey Maualuga
2. OC Alex Mack
3. the best OT/OG still on the board, depth for now, but competition for a starting position, however, changes if the Chiefs can add one through free agency. If so, then probably a DE to throw in a rotation or BPA. The Chiefs have a lot of needs

The Chiefs may need to draft a big back or every-down back after the third or with the pick taken from the LJ trade. It is hard to say that Smith or Charles can take the starting role yet, but a three headed running attack will work well, especially if the O-line is improved during the offseason.

balto
12-28-2008, 11:00 AM
ENTER:

Shonn Greene, RB
Height: 5-11. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.54.
Projected Round (2009): 3-4

With that 3rd pick for a BIG RB to replace LJ.

okikcfan
12-28-2008, 02:15 PM
There's all this talk about what's going to happen in free agency and the draft. It really is a waste of time when so much still has to be decided. It's obvious that there's only two things that can happen here. Either the new GM keeps Herm or gets rid of him. In scenario 2, the new GM fires Herm.

This thread is for ideas if the Chiefs fire Herm.
Who is the new GM?
Who is the new Coach
Who is on his staff?
What offensive system do they go with?
Who plays QB?
Who gets cut, traded and signed?
Who gets drafted to fill needs?


Lets say Marty gets the GM job, Marty and Bill C. are very close, question is will Bill C come out of retirement for Marty? I think they may take a QB in the draft but will also pick up a vet. QB in the off season. So many questions, but it will all come down to who is picked as the Chiefs new GM. Herm must go no matter what.:bananen_smilies046:

drstandley31
12-28-2008, 05:38 PM
No way with all the holes we have, do you take a QB in the first 4 rounds. OL, DL, LB's. Or trade a high pick for a OL, DL or LB. We've got to get a foundation on both sides of the ball. We run the spread because we can't block. We're the worst pass rush defense in NFL History because our DL suks. And we rotate LB like I change underware. Until we solve those areas, new QB, RB, WR, etc won't make a bit of difference. The second comming of Super Joe couldn't do anything with the line we have. Games are won in the trenches and we're 2 - 14! Should be enough said.

Bike
12-28-2008, 09:47 PM
Lets say Marty gets the GM job, Marty and Bill C. are very close, question is will Bill C come out of retirement for Marty? I think they may take a QB in the draft but will also pick up a vet. QB in the off season. So many questions, but it will all come down to who is picked as the Chiefs new GM. Herm must go no matter what.:bananen_smilies046:
I think there is a real chance Marty being our new GM. Lot of talk going on with Pioli going to Cleveland. If anyone can get Cowher here, maybe Marty can. But if he can't, who will he bring in? I sure hope it wouldn't be Brian.

Coach
12-28-2008, 09:54 PM
No way with all the holes we have, do you take a QB in the first 4 rounds. OL, DL, LB's. Or trade a high pick for a OL, DL or LB. We've got to get a foundation on both sides of the ball. We run the spread because we can't block. We're the worst pass rush defense in NFL History because our DL sucks. And we rotate LB like I change underware. Until we solve those areas, new QB, RB, WR, etc won't make a bit of difference. The second comming of Super Joe couldn't do anything with the line we have. Games are won in the trenches and we're 2 - 14! Should be enough said.
Excellent post!


I think there is a real chance Marty being our new GM. Lot of talk going on with Pioli going to Cleveland. If anyone can get Cowher here, maybe Marty can. But if he can't, who will he bring in? I sure hope it wouldn't be Brian.

I'm sure Romeo Crennel is praying that Pioli goes to Cleveland. That is probably his only shot at staying in Cleveland.

texaschief
01-01-2009, 05:22 PM
I'm slowly putting my staff together.

GM- George Kokonis
HC- Jim Schwartz
DC- Romeo Crennel
OC- Chan Gailey
OL- Mike Solari
WR-
QB-
RB-

DL-
LB- Ken Norton Jr.
DB-

Big Daddy Tek
01-01-2009, 05:50 PM
I'm slowly putting my staff together.

GM- George Kokonis
HC- Jim Schwartz
DC- Romeo Crennel
OC- Chan Gailey
OL- Mike Solari
WR-
QB-
RB-

DL-
LB- Ken Norton Jr.
DB-


You gotts keep Eric Price and David Gibbs as the Receivers and DB's coaches. They are the only position coaches that we have that are worth a sh!t. Also if you put Romeo as the D-Coordinator then we have to play 3-4 defense. I dont like that. Jim Schwartz as HC? Geeze Tex, your really goin out on a limb right here.

texaschief
01-01-2009, 07:13 PM
You gotts keep Eric Price and David Gibbs as the Receivers and DB's coaches. They are the only position coaches that we have that are worth a sh!t. Also if you put Romeo as the D-Coordinator then we have to play 3-4 defense. I dont like that. Jim Schwartz as HC? Geeze Tex, your really goin out on a limb right here.

Crennel did a great job in New England, which put him in the position to get the Browns' head coaching job. But you're right. He WOULD run a 3-4. I'm not too big on that defense either.

Jim Schwartz would've already been the HC for the Titans if Fisher wasn't so stable. Very few years do you ever see the Titans defense floundering around the bottom of the league. The Titans are consistently a top 10 defense. While Herm Edwards says his forte is defense, Schwartz has PROVEN that he's a defensive minded coach. He's a great talent evaluator and I think I'd much rather have a coach in here who hasn't already establish a ceiling for himself like Shanahan or Cowher. We KNOW what those two coaches can do with a prolonged tenure as a head coach. Shanahan builds .500 teams and Cowher builds perennial playoff contenders.

I'm looking for a guy who could build perennial championship contenders.

theaxeeffect4311
01-02-2009, 03:57 AM
Crennel did a great job in New England, which put him in the position to get the Browns' head coaching job. But you're right. He WOULD run a 3-4. I'm not too big on that defense either.

Jim Schwartz would've already been the HC for the Titans if Fisher wasn't so stable. Very few years do you ever see the Titans defense floundering around the bottom of the league. The Titans are consistently a top 10 defense. While Herm Edwards says his forte is defense, Schwartz has PROVEN that he's a defensive minded coach. He's a great talent evaluator and I think I'd much rather have a coach in here who hasn't already establish a ceiling for himself like Shanahan or Cowher. We KNOW what those two coaches can do with a prolonged tenure as a head coach. Shanahan builds .500 teams and Cowher builds perennial playoff contenders.

I'm looking for a guy who could build perennial championship contenders.

And seeing how Clark Hunt has talked about bringing in a new GM that is possibly a first-time GM, if they choose to change coaching, they will probably choose someone who will become a head coach for the first time as well.

jmlamerson
01-02-2009, 02:28 PM
You gotts keep Eric Price and David Gibbs as the Receivers and DB's coaches. They are the only position coaches that we have that are worth a sh!t. Also if you put Romeo as the D-Coordinator then we have to play 3-4 defense. I dont like that. Jim Schwartz as HC? Geeze Tex, your really goin out on a limb right here.

Our big problem with running the 3-4 is that we don't have any personnel for it, excepting DJ and Pollard. Dorsey, however you may view him, is definitely not a NT in a 3-4 due to his relatively small size, and he'll never be a DE there either. Our DEs are not big enough or strong enough for the 4-3, much less the 3-4. We'd need three new starting LBs as well, and Page would definitely need to go.

Right or wrong (and in my opinion wrong), we've been drafting personnel for a smaller Cover 2 defense for the past three years. To move to the 3-4 will require most of our defense to go and an influx of FAs beyond even my previous demands.

nigeriannightmare
01-02-2009, 03:21 PM
Our big problem with running the 3-4 is that we don't have any personnel for it, excepting DJ and Pollard. Dorsey, however you may view him, is definitely not a NT in a 3-4 due to his relatively small size, and he'll never be a DE there either. Our DEs are not big enough or strong enough for the 4-3, much less the 3-4. We'd need three new starting LBs as well, and Page would definitely need to go.

Right or wrong (and in my opinion wrong), we've been drafting personnel for a smaller Cover 2 defense for the past three years. To move to the 3-4 will require most of our defense to go and an influx of FAs beyond even my previous demands.


If we have been drafting for a cover 2, and are not good at it and we don't have the personnel for the 3-4 or the 4-3, where does that leave us. Asking a serious question cuz this talk is a little like german to me.....

jmlamerson
01-02-2009, 05:07 PM
If we have been drafting for a cover 2, and are not good at it and we don't have the personnel for the 3-4 or the 4-3, where does that leave us. Asking a serious question cuz this talk is a little like german to me.....

The Cover 2 is a version of the 4-3 in which most of the pressure is brought by the front four and the the rest of the defense (LBS, CBs, and Ss) plays the pass using zone coverage.

The Cover 2 generally requires a lighter front four in which all players are fast enough to rush the quarterback. A proper Cover 2 won't have space eating DTs - it will have smaller DTs that can rush the QB. The LBs will also tend to be smaller and faster because they will be called upon to cover WRs.

A regular 4-3 will have a bigger front four and will make up for the lack of front 4 speed with more frequent blitzes.

A 3-4 usually has one mammoth DT (called a nose tackle or NT), two slightly larger than usual DEs, and a very strong LB corps to stop the run. It also uses bigger, harder hitting Ss than the 4-3. Speed is not the priority in the 3-4 - strength and discipline are. And the 3-4 also contains a great deal of blitzing, usually at least one LB every down.

All of these defenses have weaknesses. A cover 2 defense is usually worse against the run (because of the smaller front 4) and if the front 4 can't get pressure, it can be thrown on all day. A 4-3 blitzing defense (usually with a lot of man-to-man coverage) can be exploited in the passing game unless you have excellent DBs. A 3-4 requires a very strong and big front 7, and it usually needs to play together a couple years before its really effective.

In the NFL, the Steelers and Pats are the best 3-4 teams, the Colts and Vikings are the best Cover 2 teams, and Tennessee plays a pretty perfect regular 4-3.

Our DL is one of the smallest in the league, and we don't have a DT even close to big and strong enough to play NT. Our DEs are also undersized. I even have doubts whether DJ is strong enough to play LB in a 3-4.

Our best bet, in my opinion, is to abandon the Cover 2 and move to a more blitzing pure 4-3 defense. We still need to bulk up on the front 4, but our CBs are probably good enough to play man-to-man, Pollard is good against the run, and DJ is a perfect blitzing LB.

It isn't pretty any way you cut it. We have only four definitely NFL caliber starters on defense (Carr, Flowers, DJ and Pollard) and a bunch of question marks elsewhere. But where arguments for Dorsey, Page, and Hali might be made in the 4-3, those players are worthless in a 3-4.

nigeriannightmare
01-02-2009, 07:05 PM
Thanks you for the clarification. I highly doubt we abandon the cover 2 as long as Herm is the HC.

jmlamerson
01-02-2009, 07:20 PM
Thanks you for the clarification. I highly doubt we abandon the cover 2 as long as Herm is the HC.

Me too. But Herm is gone about six hours after we get a new GM, unless the new GM is some sort of CP toadie.

theaxeeffect4311
01-02-2009, 07:30 PM
Thanks you for the clarification. I highly doubt we abandon the cover 2 as long as Herm is the HC.

The Cover 2 may not be for us, but we should not go to a 3-4 defense. We would either have to trade away Dorsey or make him into a DE for a 3-4. It is basically saying most of the defensive players we drafted were the wrong choice. I think we would have more success going to a regular 4-3 defense. Tyler can put on weight to be our space eater, while Dorsey shoots the gap with DJ blitzing from the outside on occasion. I believe our DBs and safeties are good enough in coverage to handle man to man, or zone blitzes. If we could get Schwartz or Spagnoulo, the Chiefs could revamp the defense just by changing scheme.

jmlamerson
01-02-2009, 07:39 PM
It is basically saying most of the defensive players we drafted were the wrong choice.

Some people may argue that most of the defensive players we drafted these past three years were the wrong choices. A defense doesn't get to be as historically bad as ours was in 2008 if the right choices were made - especially in our front seven. I think five years from now we'll be sadly shaking our heads at every single Herm Edwards draft choice in our front seven on defense (Tank, Dorsey, Turk, Johnston, Hali, etc.).

I think that Herm Edwards is the Salieri to Dungy's Mozart. He knows the notes of the Cover 2 defense, but he doesn't understand what makes it work.

theaxeeffect4311
01-02-2009, 08:08 PM
Some people may argue that most of the defensive players we drafted these past three years were the wrong choices. A defense doesn't get to be as historically bad as ours was in 2008 if the right choices were made - especially in our front seven. I think five years from now we'll be sadly shaking our heads at every single Herm Edwards draft choice in our front seven on defense (Tank, Dorsey, Turk, Johnston, Hali, etc.).

I think that Herm Edwards is the Salieri to Dungy's Mozart. He knows the notes of the Cover 2 defense, but he doesn't understand what makes it work.

Very good comparison. Haha.

The thing is the players we have on the D-line and the rest of the defense are not bad. I have to think that they would be good players on another team, which makes me think that it goes down to coaching and scheme. But I can only hope that is what it is.

Bike
01-02-2009, 08:17 PM
Our defense is at the bottom of the league in all 4 categories. I'm sure coaching had a part, but talented players don't bring back the results these guys did this season...

OTR Chiefs fan
01-02-2009, 10:04 PM
And seeing how Clark Hunt has talked about bringing in a new GM that is possibly a first-time GM, if they choose to change coaching, they will probably choose someone who will become a head coach for the first time as well.

I hope the new GM if they fire Herm doesn't bring in a new HC. That would really set us back. As young as this team is we need an experienced coach who can continue to bring the young'uns along. :11::D

theaxeeffect4311
01-03-2009, 01:23 AM
I hope the new GM if they fire Herm doesn't bring in a new HC. That would really set us back. As young as this team is we need an experienced coach who can continue to bring the young'uns along. :11::D

I do not see it as a setback. Sure, there will be some learning for a first time coach, but nothing that would set us back. We were 2-12 this season. Change is needed. Staying put would set us back. If Herm is gone and the Chiefs hire a new coach, no matter who it is, it will be hard on the young team no matter what. Is that bad? No. Because maybe the team can learn how to win.