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View Full Version : Glen Dorsey the bust?



slimdagreat
01-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Everybody has proclaimed that his rookie season was a bust. People are already lableing him Ryan Sims pt. 2.

However people need to look under the surface.

Here's some things to consider. First the Chiefs had the worst DL in football, this is without question. Dorsey was almost routinely zone blocked and double teamed every play.

Then of course there's the numbers.

Sims didn't play but 6 games his rookie season, and when he was the full time starter in his 2nd season he was decent, but then he failed the next season racking up only 15 tackles.

Dorsey however in his rookie season, playing with the worst DL in the NFL had a respectable rookie campaign with 46 tackles and a sack.

Not really that eye popping until you look at another full time starting DT's rookie season stats: 30 tackles 1 sack.

Who's stats are those exactly?

Albert Haynesworth


he had a better rookie year than the best DT in football, Haynesworth. With the right tutalidge how long before he's putting up Haynesworth type numbers? Just sayin.

tornadospotter
01-13-2009, 05:35 PM
:sign0098: :bananen_smilies046:

billb40
01-13-2009, 05:36 PM
Agreed Dorsey needs to have another year with some competent team members. If your the only stud on the line you get all the attention.

slimdagreat
01-13-2009, 05:38 PM
Imagine how good he could be if they got Spagnoli as HC

Yikes

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 05:49 PM
Everybody has proclaimed that his rookie season was a bust. People are already lableing him Ryan Sims pt. 2.

However people need to look under the surface.

Here's some things to consider. First the Chiefs had the worst DL in football, this is without question. Dorsey was almost routinely zone blocked and double teamed every play.

Then of course there's the numbers.

Sims didn't play but 6 games his rookie season, and when he was the full time starter in his 2nd season he was decent, but then he failed the next season racking up only 15 tackles.

Dorsey however in his rookie season, playing with the worst DL in the NFL had a respectable rookie campaign with 46 tackles and a sack.

Not really that eye popping until you look at another full time starting DT's rookie season stats: 30 tackles 1 sack.

Who's stats are those exactly?

Albert Haynesworth


he had a better rookie year than the best DT in football, Haynesworth. With the right tutalidge how long before he's putting up Haynesworth type numbers? Just sayin.

I'm not saying Dorsey's a bust yet. However, he certainly wasn't the impact rookie people claimed. And he looks like he needs massive improvement not to be a bust.

He wasn't double-teamed most plays - a single guard was usually enough to block him completely. And he accumulated a lot of tackles for the same reason many bad players accumulate a lot of tackles - people kept running right at him. He showed no penetration into the backfield and looked no better than any undrafted rookie.

The big difference between Haynesworth and Dorsey? In Haynesworth's rookie year, the Titans ranked 2nd against the run - no one wanted to run on them. The Chiefs ranked 30th against the run Dorsey's rookie year - people had no problem running on them. That, not tackles, is the important statistic.

balto
01-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Nice post,

I think I understand what your really wanting!!!!!!

you want us to sign

ALBERT HAYNESWORTH

in FA hehehehe.

GREAT IDEA MAN!!!!!

hometeam
01-13-2009, 05:52 PM
imagine how good he could be if we wouldnt have squandered away the best pass rushing DE in football~

yashi
01-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Watch film.. Gunther Cunningham is the worst defensive coordinator ever, and used him exclusively as a read and react DT. He wasn't drafted #5 overall to hold his ground and then try to make a play. He was drafted because he can explode off the line and be a playmaker.

Using him like a 350 lb run stuffer was the worst thing possible. I have faith the next defensive coordinator will use him correctly.

slimdagreat
01-13-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm not saying Dorsey's a bust yet. However, he certainly wasn't the impact rookie people claimed. And he looks like he needs massive improvement not to be a bust.

He wasn't double-teamed most plays - a single guard was usually enough to block him completely. And he accumulated a lot of tackles for the same reason many bad players accumulate a lot of tackles - people kept running right at him. He showed no penetration into the backfield and looked no better than any undrafted rookie.

The big difference between Haynesworth and Dorsey? In Haynesworth's rookie year, the Titans ranked 2nd against the run - no one wanted to run on them. The Chiefs ranked 30th against the run Dorsey's rookie year - people had no problem running on them. That, not tackles, is the important statistic.

Haynesworth also played with Kevin Carter and Jevon Kearse in his rookie season, both of whom were leaps and bounds better than Tamba Hali, our best DE.

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 06:05 PM
Nice post,

I think I understand what your really wanting!!!!!!

you want us to sign

ALBERT HAYNESWORTH

in FA hehehehe.

GREAT IDEA MAN!!!!!

If we don't make a large offer to Haynesworth, I'll be shocked. He would be an awesome, awesome addition to our DL.

debearzz
01-13-2009, 06:07 PM
Agreed.
Also, Glenn Dorsey also only had 5 less tackles than Haynesworth this year although he did have 7.5 less sacks. But, Dorsey has nowhere near the supporting cast as Haynesworth on D.
And don't forget that Dorsey started ALL 16 games, something which Haynesworth has had trouble with throughout his career due to injuries.

slimdagreat
01-13-2009, 06:08 PM
imagine how good he could be if we wouldnt have squandered away the best pass rushing DE in football~

IDK about that. Sure losing Allen was a huge blow, but we got Jamal Charles (who I think they should give the job to full time) and Branden Albert (who I'm not 100% sold on yet, unless they get a real LT and move him to guard)

slimdagreat
01-13-2009, 06:09 PM
Watch film.. Gunther Cunningham is the worst defensive coordinator ever, and used him exclusively as a read and react DT. He wasn't drafted #5 overall to hold his ground and then try to make a play. He was drafted because he can explode off the line and be a playmaker.

Using him like a 350 lb run stuffer was the worst thing possible. I have faith the next defensive coordinator will use him correctly.

Great point, I forgot to address Gunthers terrible defensive scheming.

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 06:09 PM
Haynesworth also played with Kevin Carter and Jevon Kearse in his rookie season, both of whom were leaps and bounds better than Tamba Hali, our best DE.

Carter and Kearse were amazing DEs, both against the run and pass. But my point stands. Dorsey accumulated tackles, not because he was doing his job well, but because he was doing it poorly. I'm not saying he was even mostly to blame, but we shouldn't pretend that his rookie year was even marginal - he had a bad, bad 1st year. No one wanted to run on Haynesworth and the Titans - everyone wanted to run on Dorsey and the Chiefs.

I think he'll do better with a real HC/DC and real players on the DL. I don't think he'll ever live up to his draft status. And I think we need a very large DT beside him to make up for his problems against the run.

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 06:11 PM
IDK about that. Sure losing Allen was a huge blow, but we got Jamal Charles (who I think they should give the job to full time) and Branden Albert (who I'm not 100% sold on yet, unless they get a real LT and move him to guard)

No, we got Cottam, Morgan and Albert for Jared Allen. That is not equal value, especially because we would have gotten Clady at the 5 spot or traded down if not for the JA trade.

theaxeeffect4311
01-13-2009, 06:13 PM
Watch film.. Gunther Cunningham is the worst defensive coordinator ever, and used him exclusively as a read and react DT. He wasn't drafted #5 overall to hold his ground and then try to make a play. He was drafted because he can explode off the line and be a playmaker.

Using him like a 350 lb run stuffer was the worst thing possible. I have faith the next defensive coordinator will use him correctly.

That is what I see about it. Plus, with help around Dorsey, he will look much better. The way I see it, if we get another D-linemen worthy of a double team, someone has to come free.

slimdagreat
01-13-2009, 06:25 PM
No, we got Cottam, Morgan and Albert for Jared Allen. That is not equal value, especially because we would have gotten Clady at the 5 spot or traded down if not for the JA trade.

I know it wasn't equal value, but he obviously didn't want to be here, why keep a headcase around?

Plus we got Cottam from Detroit. Charles was picked with one of the 2 3rd rounders we got for Allen.

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 06:38 PM
I know it wasn't equal value, but he obviously didn't want to be here, why keep a headcase around?

Plus we got Cottam from Detroit. Charles was picked with one of the 2 3rd rounders we got for Allen.

Without the JA trade, we would have picked Charles in the 3rd instead of Cottam. Charles was our 1st 3rd rounder. The three players who defintely wouldn't be on the Chiefs without the JA trade are Dorsey (we'd have gone OL or traded down), Cottam, and Morgan.

JA wanted out of here because of CP. He and Herm basically drove JA out. With a real GM and HC, he's be on the team today.

It's spilt milk and all, but to say that the Chiefs braintrust made a good decision here is ludicrous.

Thank goodness, we're getting a real GM and HC for 2009 and beyond who will keep the good homegrown players.

slimdagreat
01-13-2009, 06:46 PM
Without the JA trade, we would have picked Charles in the 3rd instead of Cottam. Charles was our 1st 3rd rounder. The three players who defintely wouldn't be on the Chiefs without the JA trade are Dorsey (we'd have gone OL or traded down), Cottam, and Morgan.

JA wanted out of here because of CP. He and Herm basically drove JA out. With a real GM and HC, he's be on the team today.

It's spilt milk and all, but to say that the Chiefs braintrust made a good decision here is ludicrous.

Thank goodness, we're getting a real GM and HC for 2009 and beyond who will keep the good homegrown players.


Well we are splitting hairs here, but if KC didn't have Minnesota's 73rd pick, and we still had our 76th pick there's a strong possibility that San Fran would have scooped up Charles, but its all the same.

I agree with you as far as HE and CP running Allen out of town, but at the beginning of the season who could haev foreseen King carl leaving?

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 06:51 PM
Well we are splitting hairs here, but if KC didn't have Minnesota's 73rd pick, and we still had our 76th pick there's a strong possibility that San Fran would have scooped up Charles, but its all the same.

I agree with you as far as HE and CP running Allen out of town, but at the beginning of the season who could haev foreseen King carl leaving?

No one. My point is that the Chiefs braintrust made a very bad trade that most franchises with adequate leadership wouldn't have been forced to make. That our old GM and HC pissed off our best player and then traded him for pennies on the dollar.

And yes, no one knows what could have happened. My gut says we pick Clady at 5 and get Charles in the 3rd though.

kcmostwanted
01-13-2009, 06:53 PM
Dorsey had a bad 1st year... YES.. but I think he still has a lot to learn in the NFL. In college he was able to toss Centers and Guards around but the NFL Centers and Guards are so much faster/stronger/ have better technique and smarter that Dorsey can't get away w/ what he did in college.. It'll take some time for him to adjust (let's hope not too long).

Also, as many of you have mentioned above, Gunther was the wrong Def. Coordinator for a player like Dorsey.

One more thing is we can't overlook the horrible play of our linebackers.. DJ looked very average this year and I think the other 6 LBs that started for us were ex Wal-mart employees..

It's sad that our D Line consist of 1st Round Dorsey..1st Round Tamba Hali...2nd Rnd : Turk McBride.. and 3rd Round Tank Tyler...and they all played like crap in Gunthers system

slimdagreat
01-13-2009, 06:55 PM
No one. My point is that the Chiefs braintrust made a very bad trade that most franchises with adequate leadership wouldn't have been forced to make. That our old GM and HC pissed off our best player and then traded him for pennies on the dollar.


Yes well this is undebatable.

Good thing is we are finally vindicated.

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 06:57 PM
Yes well this is undebatable.

Good thing is we are finally vindicated.

Amen. 2009 will be a very, very good year to be a Chiefs fan.

We will be the 2009 AFC West champs. Mark it.

leaves
01-13-2009, 06:58 PM
I'm disappointed with Dorsey, but I can't call him a bust. One it's his first season, two DE's help DT's get inside/DT's help DE's get outside, ours don't do either.

TheLombardiTrophy
01-13-2009, 07:02 PM
It's too early for the bust talk, let Dorsey get some time to adjust to playing against NFL guards and centers. Plus he needs to be surrounded by some better defensive linemen or have the ones he currently plays with become better.

Chief Tyler
01-13-2009, 07:04 PM
Amen. 2009 will be a very, very good year to be a Chiefs fan.

We will be the 2009 AFC West champs. Mark it.

I've been saying that for a few months now. Not a bad time to be a *hopeful* first time season ticket holder. Yus.

nigeriannightmare
01-13-2009, 07:23 PM
Amen. 2009 will be a very, very good year to be a Chiefs fan.

We will be the 2009 AFC West champs. Mark it.


You beat me to it, but I just bet my boy the very same thing, poor guy is a chargers fan. Can you believe that a Chargers fan from rural missouri, but what ever. I am reaquiring season tix as we speak. woohoo!!!!!!!

hometeam
01-13-2009, 07:26 PM
Since I opened up a little thread jack with the JA comment I will say this.

You can't label Dorsey as a bust.. YET. You have to give the kid another year or two, and even then I think he can thrive in someone elses 4-3 if he doesnt make it in KC. Its all relative to the defense, the DC, the players around him (the offenses million-billion 3 and outs so the D is constantly on the field) etc.

I'm tired of seeing KC 1st round D picks not living up to thier contracts/hype, please dont let Dorsey go that way too~

Bike
01-13-2009, 09:31 PM
Dorsey had a bad 1st year... YES.. but I think he still has a lot to learn in the NFL. In college he was able to toss Centers and Guards around but the NFL Centers and Guards are so much faster/stronger/ have better technique and smarter that Dorsey can't get away w/ what he did in college.. It'll take some time for him to adjust (let's hope not too long).

Also, as many of you have mentioned above, Gunther was the wrong Def. Coordinator for a player like Dorsey.

One more thing is we can't overlook the horrible play of our linebackers.. DJ looked very average this year and I think the other 6 LBs that started for us were ex Wal-mart employees..

It's sad that our D Line consist of 1st Round Dorsey..1st Round Tamba Hali...2nd Rnd : Turk McBride.. and 3rd Round Tank Tyler...and they all played like crap in Gunthers system
Either produce or beat it. Lets not travel down the Ryan Sims road again and let an under-achieving player waste a badly needed roster spot and cap space. If Dorsey doesn't have what it takes, cut your losses and get somebody that can. I'd give him another year to prove he was worthy of a 1st rd pick, but not 2 or 3 more years...

slc chief
01-13-2009, 10:18 PM
half of dorseys problems in his first year was the genius that made him line up directly over the center.that is a immediate disadvantage for a dt.i agree give him another year if he does not show signs of improvemant can him.he did have a better rookie year than sapp though to call him a bust after one year is a joke

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 10:25 PM
half of dorseys problems in his first year was the genius that made him line up directly over the center.that is a immediate disadvantage for a dt.i agree give him another year if he does not show signs of improvemant can him.he did have a better rookie year than sapp though to call him a bust after one year is a joke

He did not have a better rookie year than Sapp. Sapp played all 16 games with 26 tackles, 3 sacks, and the Bucs ranked 14th in run defense.

Tackles are not the end all/be all in determining a DT's worth!

slc chief
01-13-2009, 10:29 PM
He did not have a better rookie year than Sapp. Sapp played all 16 games with 26 tackles, 3 sacks, and the Bucs ranked 14th in run defense.

Tackles are not the end all/be all in determining a DT's worth!

imo neither do sacks well somewhat you can not blame all of the chiefs run d problems on dorsey there are lb's and other dt tackles to blame as well but the biggest problem was tim

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 10:37 PM
imo neither do sacks well somewhat you can not blame all of the chiefs run d problems on dorsey there are lb's and other dt tackles to blame as well but the biggest problem was tim

Who the hell is Tim?!?!

slc chief
01-13-2009, 10:45 PM
Who the hell is Tim?!?!

tim krumrie defensive line coach for the chiefs last year i am not sure how the hell he spells his last name anyways he sucks some of the blame for dorseys lack luster year lands right on gunther as well they were way to conservative

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 10:47 PM
tim krumrie defensive line coach for the chiefs last year i am not sure how the hell he spells his last name anyways he sucks some of the blame for dorseys lack luster year lands right on gunther as well they were way to conservative

Ah, got it. I thought Tim was some player I hadn't heard of.

oldred
01-13-2009, 11:01 PM
Dorsey like many other member of the team first need to get into playing shape and become able to play 4 quarters. Their lack of conditioning could be blamed on Gun, Edwards or themselves but in the end I place the blame on the players.

slc chief
01-13-2009, 11:06 PM
Dorsey like many other member of the team first need to get into playing shape and become able to play 4 quarters. Their lack of conditioning could be blamed on Gun, Edwards or themselves but in the end I place the blame on the players.

you go through an nfl training camp and tell me you are not in shape the defensive problems were mostly the scheme just ask kavika mitchell and other ex chiefs who played for gun late in his career

tornadospotter
01-13-2009, 11:36 PM
you go through an nfl training camp and tell me you are not in shape the defensive problems were mostly the scheme just ask kavika mitchell and other ex chiefs who played for gun late in his career
:11: So you have? Ask players?

oldred
01-14-2009, 10:31 PM
The defensive scheme seemed to work well for the first half in most games. I know the teams make adjustments, however when you see games consistently lost in the second half most knowledgeable folks will tell you it is conditioning that makes the difference.

slc chief
01-14-2009, 10:42 PM
The defensive scheme seemed to work well for the first half in most games. I know the teams make adjustments, however when you see games consistently lost in the second half most knowledgeable folks will tell you it is conditioning that makes the difference.

the defense did not play great in any half that is why they finished near the bottom in every defensive statistics

Nel Toille
01-14-2009, 11:01 PM
Everybody has proclaimed that his rookie season was a bust. People are already lableing him Ryan Sims pt. 2.

However people need to look under the surface.

Here's some things to consider. First the Chiefs had the worst DL in football, this is without question. Dorsey was almost routinely zone blocked and double teamed every play.

Then of course there's the numbers.

Sims didn't play but 6 games his rookie season, and when he was the full time starter in his 2nd season he was decent, but then he failed the next season racking up only 15 tackles.

Dorsey however in his rookie season, playing with the worst DL in the NFL had a respectable rookie campaign with 46 tackles and a sack.

Not really that eye popping until you look at another full time starting DT's rookie season stats: 30 tackles 1 sack.

Who's stats are those exactly?

Albert Haynesworth


he had a better rookie year than the best DT in football, Haynesworth. With the right tutalidge how long before he's putting up Haynesworth type numbers? Just sayin.
Well put. Was Dorsey a dissapoinment this year? Sure. He definitely didn't earn his money but few players do. Is Dorsey a bust? Far from it. His production towards the end of the season was actually pretty impressive considering he got off to a slow start.

dbolan
01-15-2009, 03:29 PM
Haynesworth also played with Kevin Carter and Jevon Kearse in his rookie season, both of whom were leaps and bounds better than Tamba Hali, our best DE.

Tamba Hali and Dorsey were supposed to be D line anchors. That did not happen. The D line was no threat to stop the run between the tackles.

Warren Sapp had a better rookie year and that was what was expected of Hali and Dorsey.

leaves
01-15-2009, 04:58 PM
When we drafted Hali, it was a lil early. Tamba was a fast, workhorse. He worked well with the talented Mr. Allen, but without a big, strong guy to distract the OL, Tamba probably won't sneak up on any QB's.

josh1971
01-15-2009, 05:32 PM
Once again... I think it's a big picture defense thing. Yes, Hali and Dorsey were probably meant to anchor the line, but Dorsey is a rookie, and it would only be fair to him to allow him a year to adjust to the speed, size, and experience of NFL offensive linemen.

Our defense posed no threat, not because Dorsey was a bust, but because there were NO playmakers in the front seven. The more threats you have on a defense, the more those threats have to be considered by an offense. If you have to double team Neil Smith *and* Derrick Thomas, that frees up Leonard Griffin, Dan Saleamua, and Tracy Simien to make some plays, eh?

But we don't have anyone that requires a double team, and that's where we need to hit this. When O-lines, the league over, are scratching their heads trying to figure out how to block us, everyone on the D will benefit from that.

two cents from an optimist-ish fella,

jb

Nel Toille
01-15-2009, 06:56 PM
I think it's also important to point out that you can't blame most people for being disapointed in Dorsey simply because every NFL scout and analyst promised us he would be a factor instantly. I was overly-excited as well when I kept hearing this because most d-linemen take a year or so to develop and they made him out to be a godsend. There's still a chance that he can be great. I'm almost certain he'll at least be good.

hardcorechiefsfan
01-15-2009, 08:07 PM
Everybody has proclaimed that his rookie season was a bust. People are already lableing him Ryan Sims pt. 2.

However people need to look under the surface.

Here's some things to consider. First the Chiefs had the worst DL in football, this is without question. Dorsey was almost routinely zone blocked and double teamed every play.

Then of course there's the numbers.

Sims didn't play but 6 games his rookie season, and when he was the full time starter in his 2nd season he was decent, but then he failed the next season racking up only 15 tackles.

Dorsey however in his rookie season, playing with the worst DL in the NFL had a respectable rookie campaign with 46 tackles and a sack.

Not really that eye popping until you look at another full time starting DT's rookie season stats: 30 tackles 1 sack.

Who's stats are those exactly?

Albert Haynesworth


he had a better rookie year than the best DT in football, Haynesworth. With the right tutalidge how long before he's putting up Haynesworth type numbers? Just sayin.
I never heard much about Dorsey and I really don't think you should of put the word only(in red) in there.

leoness8
01-15-2009, 09:03 PM
I will say he is not a bust. If he doesnt produce in the next couple years, than yes I agree he is a bust, but to say that he is a bust after one season isnt correct. Look at Mario Williams for example...he wasnt the best his first season either..

oldred
01-15-2009, 10:02 PM
We are both talking about the 2008 KC Chiefs, right? The team I watched folded up like a deck of cards late in the game. They appeared like folks who were worried about catching the last train home.

blazesst99
01-15-2009, 10:45 PM
Dorsey had a better year than Sapp did in his rookie year also. Just because he was the top rated defensive player in the draft does not mean he is going to come in his rookie year and have 10 sacks and 60 tackles. It takes time to become a good player in the NFL

D.A.S.
01-16-2009, 12:37 AM
I think alot of people are harder on Dorsey because of how bad the team got burned by Ryan Sims.

jmlamerson
01-16-2009, 11:49 AM
I will say he is not a bust. If he doesnt produce in the next couple years, than yes I agree he is a bust, but to say that he is a bust after one season isnt correct. Look at Mario Williams for example...he wasnt the best his first season either..

That's the smartest pro-Dorsey argument I've read.

For all those people claiming Dorsey had a better first year than Haynesworth or Sapp - TACKLES ARE NOT EQUIVALENT TO QUALITY.

Bad defensive players (DeAngelo Hall, Napo, Dorsey) tend to get a lot of tackles because people run/throw right at them. People ran at Dorsey down after down because he kept getting blown off the line. Of course he's going to rack up tackles like that. Amazingly, he almost no tackles for a loss - which IS the important statistic. Not to mention that Haynesworth's and Sapp's defenses were 2nd and 14th against the run, respectively, and Dorsey's was 30th.

Dorsey had a miserable first year. Might he get better? sure. But stop trying to sugar coat it!

leoness8
01-16-2009, 11:49 AM
true...although I think Dorsey had alot more upside than Sims did coming out of college. Dorsey just needs some time. He also was coming off a slight injury to his knee if im not mistaking. Next year and the year after he will show why he was drafted soo high.

jap1
01-16-2009, 12:07 PM
That's the smartest pro-Dorsey argument I've read.

For all those people claiming Dorsey had a better first year than Haynesworth or Sapp - TACKLES ARE NOT EQUIVALENT TO QUALITY.

Bad defensive players (DeAngelo Hall, Napo, Dorsey) tend to get a lot of tackles because people run/throw right at them. People ran at Dorsey down after down because he kept getting blown off the line. Of course he's going to rack up tackles like that. Amazingly, he almost no tackles for a loss - which IS the important statistic. Not to mention that Haynesworth's and Sapp's defenses were 2nd and 14th against the run, respectively, and Dorsey's was 30th.

Dorsey had a miserable first year. Might he get better? sure. But stop trying to sugar coat it!

Im not sure I believe/agree with your argument. If they are running at him and he is getting blown up every play, how is he making tackles? Im not saying he is a great player now. All I am saying is that he is going to take time. Give him time. Any scout that says a college DL is going to be an impact player in their first year is smoking crack.

DL always take 2-3 years to develop. This is usually the timeline they are given after they are drafted. April is the draft. By End of april or beginning of may they are given a workout/strength/conditioning plan which for DL usually says gain 20lbs by the beginning of training camp. So they hit the all you can eat buffets and weight room. More importantly they do not spend as much time as they should on endurance and agility. They put on 20lbs, without developing the endurance or skills to carry that extra weight. By the time the camp comes along, they have lost a step or two agility-wise, and they have no endurance. By the time the season starts, their bodies start to get worn down from constantly being fatigued from the drills.

Keep in mind, a vet starts their off-season conditioning and training usually by March (if they decide to take Jan-Feb off, which many do). So if they need to gain weight it is not sudden and they do it while maintaining their conditioning.

The rook's first offseason usually has them developing better strength AND endurance. This season they usually dont get blown back because they are stronger, not just heavier

The next season they work on agility and fine-tuning technique. They learn how to carry that extra weight and make the sharp, fast movements needed.

jmlamerson
01-16-2009, 12:15 PM
Im not sure I believe/agree with your argument. If they are running at him and he is getting blown up every play, how is he making tackles? Im not saying he is a great player now. All I am saying is that he is going to take time. Give him time. Any scout that says a college DL is going to be an impact player in their first year is smoking crack.

DL always take 2-3 years to develop. This is usually the timeline they are given after they are drafted. April is the draft. By End of april or beginning of may they are given a workout/strength/conditioning plan which for DL usually says gain 20lbs by the beginning of training camp. So they hit the all you can eat buffets and weight room. More importantly they do not spend as much time as they should on endurance and agility. They put on 20lbs, without developing the endurance or skills to carry that extra weight. By the time the camp comes along, they have lost a step or two agility-wise, and they have no endurance. By the time the season starts, their bodies start to get worn down from constantly being fatigued from the drills.

Keep in mind, a vet starts their off-season conditioning and training usually by March (if they decide to take Jan-Feb off, which many do). So if they need to gain weight it is not sudden and they do it while maintaining their conditioning.

The rook's first offseason usually has them developing better strength AND endurance. This season they usually dont get blown back because they are stronger, not just heavier

The next season they work on agility and fine-tuning technique. They learn how to carry that extra weight and make the sharp, fast movements needed.

You're absolutely right, that it's too early to call him a failure. And you're right that DTs take 2-3 years to develop (which is why they're idiotic top-5 selections for a rebuilding team, but that's a different conversation). And you're even right that he deserves time next year - I'm not suggesting we cut or trade him or anything.

It just bugs me when people try to pretend that Dorsey had a better year than some elite DTs, so he's a future star in the making. Because he didn't. He had a terrible, terrible first year.

Teams ran right at him 10-15 times a game because he was miserable against the run. I'll agree with the consensus that his terrible coaches were a large part of that. But his tackles were always a couple yards from the line of scrimmage. He didn't stuff anyone at the line. He never penetrated and got tackles for losses. He just kept getting blown up play after play. And despite people trying to myth-build, he wasn't double teamed. A single guard was usually enough to stop him.