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texaschief
01-13-2009, 09:02 PM
Everyone is saying Herm is on his way out. I do find it interesting that Herm wasn't fired BEFORE Pioli signed, like all the rumors had Hunt doing. If Pioli DOES come in and fire Herm immediately, I'm going to be VERY interested to see how he justifies it. "6 wins in 2 years" just isn't a smart argument. Neither of the last two teams were built to win and Herm is the guy who pushed to dump all the old guys and start completely over... which is now what Hunt is trying to continue to do.

This whole situation (if that's how it went down) is like sitting down with a salesman who convinces you that you should go one way instead of another and then after you've made your decision, you decided to grab another salesman to complete the sale so they could get the commission. It just doesn't make sense to me.

This whole move just seems like Hunt is just trying to please the mob. After watching EVERY SINGLE person leave that organization and absolutely BOMB by themselves, I just don't understand why everyone is so excited about this guy. If he brought Belichick with him, then I'd be more excited about it. But seriously, who do y'all think is more responsible for their successes, Pioli, Belichick, or having a solid O-line and franchise QB that was built before Pioli got there?

I REALLY hope Pioli does good for us. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and we're not just the next team to pluck an overrated part of Bellichick's staff like Savage, Weiss, McDaniel, Crennell, etc. I'm real curious why more people aren't worried about this. I've done my homework on Pioli and can't find exactly what he was responsible for during their great run this decade except that he was part of the team.

Bellichick has total personnel control over that team and Pioli wasn't even the GM.

The whole thing about this franchise and where they've been the past decade and where they're headed is that this franchise was decimated by poor drafting from 99 to 2005. The head coach always gets the majority of the blame for a team's failure and to a certain extent that's acceptable. But a successful team builds through the draft and doesn't trade away draft picks for older vets. For whatever reason, Peterson didn't like this concept and it ultimately led to the destruction of this team and his resignation.

I thank Edwards for finally getting this franchise on the right path and opening ownership's eyes to the fact that the right way to build a franchise is the way we're doing it and that Peterson was a cancer to this team. Edwards was the first coach since Schottenheimer to build this team correctly. At this point in the franchise's history, a coaches ability to manage the clock isn't exactly high on the list of concerns. He has established a culture this past year for the Chiefs and unless Pioli and the next head coach believe in the same concept, the Chiefs are never going to establish a consistently great team.

I will say though, that if you looked at the beginning of the Patriot dynasty, they did exactly what Edwards and Hunt want to do. They built the team through the draft and only recently started adding high priced free agents. So, that is encouraging. If Pioli fires Herm because he thinks he's bringing in a better talent who believes in the same concept as Edwards and Hunt do, then I'm all for it.

My very first concern has been and always will be building this team the right way. My endorsement of Edwards stems from the lone fact that he's the first guy who's pushed to do things the right way since Marty. My allegiance is to the team and any personnel who pushes to build the franchise for the long-term through the draft. The only other reason I thought Edwards should be retained is the fact he's only been given one team in three years who could've conceivably competed for a playoff birth and firing him IMO just isn't fair. But in term of the franchise, as long as they bring in a head coach with the same philosophy, I really don't care one way or the other who the head coach is. Well, as long as its not Ferentz.

hometeam
01-13-2009, 09:06 PM
Why isnt 6 wins in two yearsa good enough reason?

The way I see it, its all excuses. I dont care what players you have, whether you are rebuilding or not, what injury's happen, what players you cut, what plays dont get made, I do not care WHAT HAPPENS. You have to win more than 2 games in a season! Cut.Dry.

texaschief
01-13-2009, 09:23 PM
Why isnt 6 wins in two yearsa good enough reason?

The way I see it, its all excuses. I dont care what players you have, whether you are rebuilding or not, what injury's happen, what players you cut, what plays dont get made, I do not care WHAT HAPPENS. You have to win more than 2 games in a season! Cut.Dry.


Really? Cut and dry huh? It really is sad that this is the predominant opinion from Kansas City. There's ZERO foresight in this community and it's really starting to become apparent why Carl Peterson continually mortgaged the future of this franchise for wins NOW instead of building for a great team in the future.

People like this can't handle a couple losing seasons to do things the right way. Kansas City is showing its true colors. The fan base pisses and moans about not being able to make it to the Super Bowl, but when someone actually tries to correct the problem, the mob doesn't realize it because it's been so long since its happened.

Success isn't always measured in wins and its become apparent, wins and losses is the extent of this fan base's thought process. :sign0098:

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 09:25 PM
Why are you forgetting how well Dimitroff (former personnel guy for Pats) has done in Atlanta this year?

Canada
01-13-2009, 09:26 PM
Really? Cut and dry huh? It really is sad that this is the predominant opinion from Kansas City. There's ZERO foresight in this community and it's really starting to become apparent why Carl Peterson continually mortgaged the future of this franchise for wins NOW instead of building for a great team in the future.

People like this can't handle a couple losing seasons to do things the right way. Kansas City is showing its true colors. The fan base pisses and moans about not being able to make it to the Super Bowl, but when someone actually tries to correct the problem, the mob doesn't realize it because it's been so long since its happened.

Success isn't always measured in wins and its become apparent, wins and losses is the extent of this fan base's thought process. :sign0098:

Is this true of anyone who disagrees with you? I agree with the argument that you are making as far as Herm looking to the future, however Herm is not a good game time coach. I am not going to repeat all the same stuff about him but his decisions during games, lack of adjustments etc. make him a bad coach. Just because he has the right idea of how to rebuild this team does not automatically make him a good coach. And just because some of us do not like Herm does not mean that wins and losses is the extent of how he is judged.

Just curious, but how is you are measuring his success?

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 09:27 PM
Really? Cut and dry huh? It really is sad that this is the predominant opinion from Kansas City. There's ZERO foresight in this community and it's really starting to become apparent why Carl Peterson continually mortgaged the future of this franchise for wins NOW instead of building for a great team in the future.

People like this can't handle a couple losing seasons to do things the right way. Kansas City is showing its true colors. The fan base pisses and moans about not being able to make it to the Super Bowl, but when someone actually tries to correct the problem, the mob doesn't realize it because it's been so long since its happened.

Success isn't always measured in wins and its become apparent, wins and losses is the extent of this fan base's thought process. :sign0098:

Didn't you just write today on a different thread:

"The Chiefs need to spend every bit of that 30 million in cap space they currently posses on Vilma, Suggs/Peppers, Scott, Haynesworth, Dansby, Asomugha, Gross, etc.

Then, to make those moves more affordable, in 2010, you cut LJ, McIntosh, Surtain, and every other high cost, low production player we have on this team."

slc chief
01-13-2009, 09:33 PM
herm is a losing coach and has to go.and i do not think any of us know just how responsible pioli was for the patriots success. but i guarantee he had something to do with it. belicheck did not do it all on his own he is not god. there is a reason pioli has won numerous executive of the year awards.herm screwed himself when he did the rebuild by not addresing the offense and defensive lines GOOD BYE HERM

hometeam
01-13-2009, 09:36 PM
Yea its pretty cut and dry. Like I said, doesn't matter what excuses and reasons you give, you have to twin more than 2 games in a season. Herm has had 3 years, we gave a 4th round pick for him and he and CP ran out the best player we had. (who btw, was still young and draft built, just like you like em) So, again, pretty cut and dry, you win 2 games, you dont deserve to be the head coach of an NFL football team.

texaschief
01-13-2009, 09:44 PM
Is this true of anyone who disagrees with you? I agree with the argument that you are making as far as Herm looking to the future, however Herm is not a good game time coach. I am not going to repeat all the same stuff about him but his decisions during games, lack of adjustments etc. make him a bad coach. Just because he has the right idea of how to rebuild this team does not automatically make him a good coach. And just because some of us do not like Herm does not mean that wins and losses is the extent of how he is judged.

Just curious, but how is you are measuring his success?

No. But its true of anyone who thinks "6 wins in 2 seasons" is a smart and valid argument.

IMO, Edwards did a great job during the first year of this rebuild. He was planning on spending money on free agents this year which is the right thing to do. I think being able to be competitive with a team primarily consisting of rookie to third year players which was starting a 7th string QB that had a horrible rash of injuries this season was successful. If he were allowed to add some key free agents and another draft class, like this next coach will, he'd do just as good, if not better this next season.

Didn't you just write today on a different thread:

"The Chiefs need to spend every bit of that 30 million in cap space they currently posses on Vilma, Suggs/Peppers, Scott, Haynesworth, Dansby, Asomugha, Gross, etc.

Then, to make those moves more affordable, in 2010, you cut LJ, McIntosh, Surtain, and every other high cost, low production player we have on this team."

ok... but that doesn't mean you start trading draft picks or stop building the foundation of this franchise through the draft.

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 09:45 PM
Yea its pretty cut and dry. Like I said, doesn't matter what excuses and reasons you give, you have to twin more than 2 games in a season. Herm has had 3 years, we gave a 4th round pick for him and he and CP ran out the best player we had. (who btw, was still young and draft built, just like you like em) So, again, pretty cut and dry, you win 2 games, you dont deserve to be the head coach of an NFL football team.

It isn't, to me, only the fact that we got two wins this year. It's that our coach's personnel moves and gametime decisions were the main reason we only got two wins. If Herm were in his first year with other people's problems, I guess this could be chalked up. But this is his third year and these are his guys. He had total control.

And still, he drafted duds on the DL. He kept a dud DC. He tried to make the Brodie Croyle experiment work long past its expiration. He never bothered to worry about the OL. We kept making terrible free agent signings(Darling, D. Williams) to long contracts.

Not to mention his gametime gaffes that cost us at least 3-4 wins this year.

How are we not richer for losing Herm?

jmlamerson
01-13-2009, 09:48 PM
ok... but that doesn't mean you start trading draft picks or stop building the foundation of this franchise through the draft.

What leads you to believe that isn't what Pioli's doing?

Look at Dimitroff (former Pats personnel guy) in Atlanta. We're going to follow that exact template - draft well, trade our malcontents, and make useful FA signings of good young players.

slc chief
01-13-2009, 09:54 PM
No. But its true of anyone who thinks "6 wins in 2 seasons" is a smart and valid argument.

IMO, Edwards did a great job during the first year of this rebuild. He was planning on spending money on free agents this year which is the right thing to do. I think being able to be competitive with a team primarily consisting of rookie to third year players which was starting a 7th string QB that had a horrible rash of injuries this season was successful. If he were allowed to add some key free agents and another draft class, like this next coach will, he'd do just as good, if not better this next season.


ok... but that doesn't mean you start trading draft picks or stop building the foundation of this franchise through the draft.

what makes you think he planned on bringing in free agents this year. he did not even have the ba##s to fire gunther.yeah herm did a ok job coaching vermeils team in his first year. he did the same with the jets his first year there.and if you can not tell the jets do not have a great group of young talent from herms drafts years ago.and fyi piolis teams have been drafted for the most part exclude moss seau and a few others.that is another thing about herm he would not know a good free agent signing even if it hit him in the face

slc chief
01-13-2009, 10:07 PM
these words are right out of bellichecks mouth


To sum up in words everything Scott Pioli has meant to this organization and to me personally would be difficult, if not impossible," Belichick said in a statement. "From the day I met him, he has demonstrated a passion for football and respect for the game that is second to none.
"It has been extremely gratifying for me to follow Scott's career ascension from the bottom of the totem pole in Cleveland to his place as a pillar of championship teams in New England. Now with the opportunity to steer his own ship and a vision of building a winner, there is no more capable, hardworking, loyal, team-oriented person than Scott Pioli."

Chief Buck Rogers
01-13-2009, 10:53 PM
I still think a lot of the patriots' succes stems from "Spy-Gate"

Every ex-player said that is you could go into a game knowing how they will line up in given situations, that you're way ahead.

I think that is why the pieces have struggled when they've left NE. Hopefully that doesn't apply in this case since we're talking about personnel, not game time coaching

tornadospotter
01-13-2009, 11:00 PM
Untill it is said and done by Clark or Pioli, I think Herm is still the head coach.

slc chief
01-13-2009, 11:08 PM
Untill it is said and done by Clark or Pioli, I think Herm is still the head coach.

i think it will be said and done this week i doubt pioli would trust his reputation with herm

lordchillz
01-13-2009, 11:15 PM
Its gonna be hard for a new coach especially a new nfl coach if pioli goes for a college coach to take over a team of 2nd year players and finish herms job productively.It makes more sense to give herm one more year to finish what he started instead.Pioli is not coaching the team.If pioli gives this young team to a different coach and fail it will be his and clarks weight to carry.rookies and free agents dont save a team it takes planning also!football is a game of pieces and stategy and we need both.

tornadospotter
01-13-2009, 11:31 PM
We just need to wait and see. I do not know! That is for sure, but what ever the fall out is, I hope it does not set us back even one year!

Coach
01-13-2009, 11:34 PM
Its gonna be hard for a new coach especially a new nfl coach if pioli goes for a college coach to take over a team of 2nd year players and finish herms job productively.It makes more sense to give herm one more year to finish what he started instead.Pioli is not coaching the team.If pioli gives this young team to a different coach and fail it will be his and clarks weight to carry.rookies and free agents dont save a team it takes planning also!football is a game of pieces and stategy and we need both.

There is a flip side of that coin. Let's say he keeps Herm and the Chiefs win 8 games next year. Now it becomes hard to get rid of Herm. Herm's contract will be up and now he could be in a position to have t extend a contract for a coach that he doesn't believe in.

I think the change has to be made now. Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher! Cowher!:yahoo:

lordchillz
01-14-2009, 12:05 AM
If the chiefs were to have anything less than a playoff win, that would still warrant a coach firing in clarks and fans eyes.Pioli knows hes has great expectations placed on his choices.If he were to fail in his first year it would've been a bad career choice to come here and damage his reputation as a gm.As fans we've already hit bottom with our team and we do not want to see 2 or more years of developing players or rebuilding or any new name they give to terrible a season!Cower would be a moral booster but it could backfire becaude its nothis team and we end up with a joe gibbs type of team.With thigpen as QB it wouldn't be difficult to play cower/steeler type of football.The closest coach to our direction would be shanahan but thats far fetched I would think.

hardcorechiefsfan
01-14-2009, 12:15 AM
I have been hearing alot about Ferentz... who knows we might get him.

tornadospotter
01-14-2009, 12:36 AM
I hope not.

texaschief
01-14-2009, 12:38 AM
It isn't, to me, only the fact that we got two wins this year. It's that our coach's personnel moves and gametime decisions were the main reason we only got two wins. If Herm were in his first year with other people's problems, I guess this could be chalked up. But this is his third year and these are his guys. He had total control.

When did Herm get this "total control" you're talking about? Seems to me Herm wanted to start rebuilding even before this past season and Peterson wouldn't let him.

And still, he drafted duds on the DL. He kept a dud DC. He tried to make the Brodie Croyle experiment work long past its expiration. He never bothered to worry about the OL. We kept making terrible free agent signings(Darling, D. Williams) to long contracts.

Just because you're too impatient to develop defensive linemen, doesn't mean the Dlinemen he's drafted are "duds." It takes years to develop Dlinemen. Dorsey and Tank will be fine. Turk was a bad pick. I've always thought that. Williams will provide this team much needed depth at LB going forward. He wasn't a horrible sign. He's just not a starter.


How are we not richer for losing Herm?

For one, we'll probably lose TG. Most of the team wants Herm to stay and changing the entire system on 2nd and 3rd year players won't be a step forward. It's going to make all our young players look like rookies all over again which is going to make the coaching staff and fan base turn on them.




What leads you to believe that isn't what Pioli's doing?

Look at Dimitroff (former Pats personnel guy) in Atlanta. We're going to follow that exact template - draft well, trade our malcontents, and make useful FA signings of good young players.

If that's the model, which QB are we taking #3? Matt Ryan won't be there at #3 this year.




what makes you think he planned on bringing in free agents this year. he did not even have the ba##s to fire gunther.yeah herm did a ok job coaching vermeils team in his first year. he did the same with the jets his first year there.and if you can not tell the jets do not have a great group of young talent from herms drafts years ago.and fyi piolis teams have been drafted for the most part exclude moss seau and a few others.that is another thing about herm he would not know a good free agent signing even if it hit him in the face

Because that's what he said his plan was at the season wrap up press conference.

garciakcfan
01-14-2009, 12:52 AM
I still think herm was put in a real crappy situation. College coaches should stay there. Steve Spurrier was thought to be the college coach that would make it and look what happened to him, Nick Saban as well. Im not too high on this ferentz guy.

texaschief
01-14-2009, 01:05 AM
I REALLY don't want Ferentz. But, with that being said, Ferentz was a pro coach for six years from 93 to 98. (albeit, not a HEAD COACH)

But the fact that he's been at Iowa for ten years and hasn't produced a great team or a great program isn't exactly exciting. He's won ten or more games 3 times at Iowa. (02-04) He's produced a consistently mediocre team at Iowa. Their offense is average, their defense is average. He's ultimately an average head coach.... AT THE COLLEGIATE LEVEL. He's not even a "great coach" at the collegiate level. He plays in a weak conference and still can't do anything with that team.

For those of you who think records are how you judge a coach, he's currently 8 games over .500 over a 13 year career as a head coach.

Still interested?

Coach
01-14-2009, 01:06 AM
Not a Ferentz fan either.

tornadospotter
01-14-2009, 01:17 AM
I still think herm was put in a real crappy situation. College coaches should stay there. Steve Spurrier was thought to be the college coach that would make it and look what happened to him, Nick Saban as well. Im not too high on this ferentz guy.
I agree, and that is why I would not be surprised if there was any changes, of coaches, but I wonder if Herm and staff will be back. Time will tell. :11:

vqman
01-14-2009, 01:20 AM
I thought the Iowa coach had a son in the program and didn't want to leave until he graduated... ??

tornadospotter
01-14-2009, 01:30 AM
I thought the Iowa coach had a son in the program and didn't want to leave until he graduated... ??
That is correct from what I know. Which is not much, other than my opinions.

McLovin
01-14-2009, 01:57 AM
I am a huge Hawkeye fan, and Kirk Ferentz has said he is not interested in the NFL yearly, except this year, this year he has said he hasnt had time to talk to Pioli and that they were both busy.

Ferentz has a couple of kids still in school at the moment, but one of the things pointed out in an article I read said KC would be a very good location for him because he could have dual residency as KC is only a 5 hour drive from Iowa City,he could leave his kids in schools they are in now and he could split time between KC and Iowa when not in the heat of the season.

Just speculation but this was from a writeup I read in an Iowa paper.

Kirk Ferentz has a had a very impressive O-Line most every year in Iowa lets hope if he is brought in by Pioli he works his magic on our O-Line.

texaschief
01-14-2009, 01:59 AM
I thought the Iowa coach had a son in the program and didn't want to leave until he graduated... ??

The thing about that is that the only way he'd be considered for a head coaching position is if some New England person became a GM. So, if he doesn't take this job when its offered, he may not get another shot.

tornadospotter
01-14-2009, 02:08 AM
I am a huge Hawkeye fan, and Kirk Ferentz has said he is not interested in the NFL yearly, except this year, this year he has said he hasnt had time to talk to Pioli and that they were both busy.

Ferentz has a couple of kids still in school at the moment, but one of the things pointed out in an article I read said KC would be a very good location for him because he could have dual residency as KC is only a 5 hour drive from Iowa City,he could leave his kids in schools they are in now and he could split time between KC and Iowa when not in the heat of the season.

Just speculation but this was from a writeup I read in an Iowa paper.

Kirk Ferentz has a had a very impressive O-Line most every year in Iowa lets hope if he is brought in by Pioli he works his magic on our O-Line.
Yep, that is what we need!

hometeam
01-14-2009, 02:11 AM
Dont want Ferentz~

Rex Ryan.. yous' my only friend

texaschief
01-14-2009, 02:15 AM
I like Rex Ryan also. Spag wouldn't be horrible either.

Hayvern
01-14-2009, 02:46 AM
As much as it pains me to say it, I really do think we are going to have to live through Edwards for one more season at least.

I just don't think Clark is ready to let him go yet. I believe they want to give him a chance to be successful, the players want him back. All of that means a lot.

tornadospotter
01-14-2009, 02:59 AM
As much as it pains me to say it, I really do think we are going to have to live through Edwards for one more season at least.

I just don't think Clark is ready to let him go yet. I believe they want to give him a chance to be successful, the players want him back. All of that means a lot.
I think you are right.

texaschief
01-14-2009, 03:00 AM
As much as it pains me to say it, I really do think we are going to have to live through Edwards for one more season at least.

I just don't think Clark is ready to let him go yet. I believe they want to give him a chance to be successful, the players want him back. All of that means a lot.

I hope you're right, but it's not sounding good and if I had to bet on it, i'd bet on Edwards leaving and Spag getting the job.

Sn@keIze
01-14-2009, 05:08 AM
As much as it pains me to say it, I really do think we are going to have to live through Edwards for one more season at least.

I just don't think Clark is ready to let him go yet. I believe they want to give him a chance to be successful, the players want him back. All of that means a lot.
Is Clark the GM?, or is Pioli.

If Clark wants to keep Herm, then he shouldnt hire a GM who makes those decisions. Since hes already acting as a GM (if he wants to keep him).

If Pioli wants him gone, then Herm should be gone. Whether Clark likes it or not, thats why you hire him. Because Pioli is the Guru here, not Clark.

Canada
01-14-2009, 08:11 AM
I will take Herm for another season if it means getting Cowher the following season.

I H8 Every Team But KC
01-14-2009, 09:06 AM
I will take Herm for another season if it means getting Cowher the following season.


And that's what people forget about. There are going to be 3-4 proven coach's come back next year. What is so bad about using Herm for one more year to finish rebuilding the team when there are no clear cut choices for his replacement this year?

I'm all for it myself...

garciakcfan
01-14-2009, 09:56 AM
Im sure the decision was already made during the interview process... We will have to wait and see. College coaches have had no success at the pro level and we can't afford to be another miami and atlanta if it doesnt work out that hire would worry me. If herm was to go, I am for Spagnolo from the giants.

tornadospotter
01-14-2009, 10:02 AM
I will take Herm for another season if it means getting Cowher the following season.
Yes!!!:sign0098:

jmlamerson
01-14-2009, 11:00 AM
And that's what people forget about. There are going to be 3-4 proven coach's come back next year. What is so bad about using Herm for one more year to finish rebuilding the team when there are no clear cut choices for his replacement this year?

I'm all for it myself...

Because Herm didn't rebuild the team. He tore it down. And if he stays in control, he'll keep tearing it down. Pioli will be building the team pretty much from scratch. Our biggest asset to Pioli is that we're under the cap. Not any of the personnel Herm's brought in.

jmlamerson
01-14-2009, 11:22 AM
For one, we'll probably lose TG. Most of the team wants Herm to stay and changing the entire system on 2nd and 3rd year players won't be a step forward. It's going to make all our young players look like rookies all over again which is going to make the coaching staff and fan base turn on them.

You're out of your mind if you think that hiring Pioli and a real HC does anything but keep guys like Tony G. and Waters happy.

You're already trying to come up with excuses for when our 2nd and 3rd year players turn out not to be as good as you've pretended. Our defense was one of the all time worst last year - I'm all for changing our lousy system.

chiefnut
01-14-2009, 11:53 AM
at this point trading L J and Tony G for draft piks, not a bad idea. we are going nowhere next year anyway, we may get a second round for L J and a third for TG. Tony does deserve a better end to his career than what awaits him here. our defense is embarrasingly awful, w/a supposed "defensive guru" at head coach and another at DC how did we get so bad. i don't think we can just blame the players. Hali has been going downhill each year and our team seems to be where good linebackers go to die. the only bright spot has been Thigpen, a decent young cheap QB to give us a little breathing room on draft day. herm & staff must go! miami rebuilt in one season to a playoff team, why can't we do it in 3 years? cause herm wasted the first 2 that's why.

tornadospotter
01-14-2009, 11:58 AM
at this point trading L J and Tony G for draft piks, not a bad idea. we are going nowhere next year anyway, we may get a second round for L J and a third for TG. Tony does deserve a better end to his career than what awaits him here. our defense is embarrasingly awful, w/a supposed "defensive guru" at head coach and another at DC how did we get so bad. i don't think we can just blame the players. Hali has been going downhill each year and our team seems to be where good linebackers go to die. the only bright spot has been Thigpen, a decent young cheap QB to give us a little breathing room on draft day. herm & staff must go! miami rebuilt in one season to a playoff team, why can't we do it in 3 years? cause herm wasted the first 2 that's why.

Herm or Carl?

Just asking.

jmlamerson
01-14-2009, 12:07 PM
at this point trading L J and Tony G for draft piks, not a bad idea. we are going nowhere next year anyway, we may get a second round for L J and a third for TG. Tony does deserve a better end to his career than what awaits him here. our defense is embarrasingly awful, w/a supposed "defensive guru" at head coach and another at DC how did we get so bad. i don't think we can just blame the players. Hali has been going downhill each year and our team seems to be where good linebackers go to die. the only bright spot has been Thigpen, a decent young cheap QB to give us a little breathing room on draft day. herm & staff must go! miami rebuilt in one season to a playoff team, why can't we do it in 3 years? cause herm wasted the first 2 that's why.

No, he wasted the first three. Only an idiot would begin the 2008 season starting Niswanger, Jones, and McIntosh on our right side of our OL, Croyle at QB, and Devard Darling as our 2WR. Only an idiot starts the front seven we started this this season, especially Pat Thomas, Tank Tyler, Turk McBride, and Donnie Edwards (who should have had D-U-N printed on his helmet). Only an idiot would keep Gunther and Curl on the staff.

Last year did little good for us except prove that we have decent young CBs, and that we can run a spread offense for 1/2 of every game. It was a wasted, terrible year.

P.S. We should keep TG. And we couldn't get a 2040 7th rounder for LJ.

hometeam
01-14-2009, 12:08 PM
I would like to see Spag or Ryan, maybe even Billick or Shanahan if you want to go offensive~ Other than that, I dont see a whole lot of HC choices that arent a shot in the dark.

jmlamerson
01-14-2009, 12:12 PM
I would like to see Spag or Ryan, maybe even Billick or Shanahan if you want to go offensive~ Other than that, I dont see a whole lot of HC choices that arent a shot in the dark.

If Spag isn't our HC, I'll be surprised, even though I'd prefer Shanahan myself.

Any of those four you referenced are fine by me. And we can get any of those four.

chiefnut
01-14-2009, 12:58 PM
i agree, herm has made terrible decisions on personel, game strategy, clock mgmt, etc. as for carl, mistakes made has he, however he does give a free hand to the coach right down to "most" draft picks. so carl started this predicament by hiring herm, then compounded it by letting him make all the bad decisions, and condemed the CHIEFS to bottom dwelling by not firing him.

Big Daddy Tek
01-14-2009, 02:44 PM
at this point trading L J and Tony G for draft piks, not a bad idea. we are going nowhere next year anyway, we may get a second round for L J and a third for TG. Tony does deserve a better end to his career than what awaits him here. our defense is embarrasingly awful, w/a supposed "defensive guru" at head coach and another at DC how did we get so bad. i don't think we can just blame the players. Hali has been going downhill each year and our team seems to be where good linebackers go to die. the only bright spot has been Thigpen, a decent young cheap QB to give us a little breathing room on draft day. herm & staff must go! miami rebuilt in one season to a playoff team, why can't we do it in 3 years? cause herm wasted the first 2 that's why.

Herm wasted the first two years? We are not going anywhere next year? WOW! that was great. The only problem with your rhetoric is that Herm wanted to blow this thing up after the Colts loss and the front office thought that the team had one more year left in em'. As far as us sucking next year, why in the he!! would you say that? Are you a Raiders fan? Maybe you didnt catch the 6 games that we lost by less than 7 points. Maybe you just weren't available to see a bunch of twenty somethings play their a$$ off down the stretch to lose at the end and come back fighting the next week. These guys are very close whether you like it or not. The foundation has been built, sprinkle in a few free agents and a good draft and we WILL be good! By the way, that was a GREAT idea to send the greatest player in our teams history packing! You must be a real die hard!

jmlamerson
01-14-2009, 02:49 PM
By the way, that was a GREAT idea to send the greatest player in our teams history packing! You must be a real die hard!

You're lucky Len Dawson didn't hear you call TG that.

nigeriannightmare
01-14-2009, 02:51 PM
Really? Cut and dry huh? It really is sad that this is the predominant opinion from Kansas City. There's ZERO foresight in this community and it's really starting to become apparent why Carl Peterson continually mortgaged the future of this franchise for wins NOW instead of building for a great team in the future.

People like this can't handle a couple losing seasons to do things the right way. Kansas City is showing its true colors. The fan base pisses and moans about not being able to make it to the Super Bowl, but when someone actually tries to correct the problem, the mob doesn't realize it because it's been so long since its happened.

Success isn't always measured in wins and its become apparent, wins and losses is the extent of this fan base's thought process. :sign0098:

Did you watch the Chiefs this season. A defensive minded coach had his team finish dead last in team defense. With two minutes left in the second quarter we were outscored 69-0 last time I looked. We were outscored 70 something to 7 in the third quarter. His inability to make game time adjustments and his complete incompetence with the two minute left is why I think he's a bad coach. Get off the youth movement, get off the injures, get off the 6 wins. He is not a very good game time coach which is evident in his record.

Like I have asked you a million times and you still have never answered in his eight years as a HC what teams has he rebuilt besides the Chiefs? Qualifications mean moire than anything and Herm hasn't done a whole lot. Oh yeah he won 2 playoff games in New York....

KristofLaw
01-14-2009, 02:54 PM
"that was a GREAT idea to send the greatest player in our teams history packing!"
I couldn't agree more. I understand the love for Thigpen and the season he had, but in comparison he seems to draw alot more love/respect than the GREAT Tony Gonzalez. Keep Thiggy and throw away a KC HOFer, sorry fellas... that don't sit right in my books.

Hayvern
01-14-2009, 02:59 PM
And that's what people forget about. There are going to be 3-4 proven coach's come back next year. What is so bad about using Herm for one more year to finish rebuilding the team when there are no clear cut choices for his replacement this year?

I'm all for it myself...

Here is the problem with it. If Herm has a better year, and somehow squeaks into the playoffs, then the apparent need to drop Herm becomes less important as he will be steering the ship in the right direction. The problem is that New York was able to make the playoffs a couple of times in Edward's reign there, but he never was a dominating coach that had any real chance of ever winning a championship. We need to drop him now while the reason for doing so is clear and in front of us. I don't want to take the chance that he gets lucky next season and then we have another 4-12 season in 2010. And YES, I am a real fan and I do believe that is a real possibility!

chiefnut
01-14-2009, 03:31 PM
Herm wasted the first two years? We are not going anywhere next year? WOW! that was great. The only problem with your rhetoric is that Herm wanted to blow this thing up after the Colts loss and the front office thought that the team had one more year left in em'. As far as us sucking next year, why in the he!! would you say that? Are you a Raiders fan? Maybe you didnt catch the 6 games that we lost by less than 7 points. Maybe you just weren't available to see a bunch of twenty somethings play their a$$ off down the stretch to lose at the end and come back fighting the next week. These guys are very close whether you like it or not. The foundation has been built, sprinkle in a few free agents and a good draft and we WILL be good! By the way, that was a GREAT idea to send the greatest player in our teams history packing! You must be a real die hard!

how do you know herm wanted to dismantle the CHIEFS a year earlier and was prevented? how do you know last year was not phase 1 of his youth movement? please reread my opinion....i never said we were going to suck next year, i said "we're not going anywhere next year",. herm took us from 9 wins to 4 wins to 2 wins, i doubt if we will win mor than 6 or 7 games next year, which would be a great turn around but won't get us into the playoffs. i also never said i wanted to "get rid" of Tony G, i said that he deserved a better end to a great career than on a 6-26 team. with the exception of miami's mirraculous turn around , most teams take 2 to 3 seasons to go from the bottom to serious SB contender. i doubt if Tony can take 2 or more years of being pounded going over the middle as a teams main target. please don't hurl insults like "raiders fans" around lightly, their is no greater insult than that.

Hayvern
01-14-2009, 03:35 PM
Herm wasted the first two years? We are not going anywhere next year? WOW! that was great. The only problem with your rhetoric is that Herm wanted to blow this thing up after the Colts loss and the front office thought that the team had one more year left in em'. As far as us sucking next year, why in the he!! would you say that? Are you a Raiders fan? Maybe you didnt catch the 6 games that we lost by less than 7 points. Maybe you just weren't available to see a bunch of twenty somethings play their a$$ off down the stretch to lose at the end and come back fighting the next week. These guys are very close whether you like it or not. The foundation has been built, sprinkle in a few free agents and a good draft and we WILL be good! By the way, that was a GREAT idea to send the greatest player in our teams history packing! You must be a real die hard!

Herm has done an alright job putting together a young team, he has done marginal in then coaching that team. Herm was never the guy we needed for this team, I said it when he was hired and I am saying it again now. He has always been a good judge of talent, but he just does not know how to prepare for a game, and get the team ready to play.

He does not make good calls on the field, does not know how to manage the clock, he has a terrible perpensity to place blame on others when the blame falls squarely on him. I would rather keep Larry Johnson than keep Herm Edwards at this point.

Big Daddy Tek
01-14-2009, 04:51 PM
how do you know herm wanted to dismantle the CHIEFS a year earlier and was prevented? how do you know last year was not phase 1 of his youth movement? please reread my opinion....i never said we were going to suck next year, i said "we're not going anywhere next year",. herm took us from 9 wins to 4 wins to 2 wins, i doubt if we will win mor than 6 or 7 games next year, which would be a great turn around but won't get us into the playoffs. i also never said i wanted to "get rid" of Tony G, i said that he deserved a better end to a great career than on a 6-26 team. with the exception of miami's mirraculous turn around , most teams take 2 to 3 seasons to go from the bottom to serious SB contender. i doubt if Tony can take 2 or more years of being pounded going over the middle as a teams main target. please don't hurl insults like "raiders fans" around lightly, their is no greater insult than that.

Everybody knows that Herm wanted to blow this thing up after the Colts loss in year 1. Its been written by everybody for 2 years. Its nothing new. Its funny you mention it, because its actually talked about in the star today.

chiefnut
01-14-2009, 05:51 PM
i just read the article, i stand corected, i always knew herm wanted a youth movement from the start but the article does lend credence to carl blocking him, which i never believed before. herm was carls guy from the start, i never saw any public rift philosophicaly or otherwise. just the occasional rumor.

texaschief
01-15-2009, 01:47 AM
just to come in on the back end of this discussion, Edwards was hand picked by Dick Vermeil. He was never purely "Carl's guy." He just listened to what Vermeil thought about his successor.


To get back to the original post, after watching the Pioli press conference today, I'm on board. Pioli said everything exactly right. The philosophy is exactly what I agree with and exactly what I've been defending since I arrived on this board. I think his approach to the current staff and roster only gives him more clout as a person who's ready to be "THE GUY" in my opinion. While Edwards may not be the best guy for the job at the end of the process, at least he isn't coming in and cleaning house immediately without evaluations. I like his approach to the opportunity presented in front of him and I do think he's the right guy for this job.

Good hire by Clark Hunt in my opinion. :sign0098:

tornadospotter
01-15-2009, 02:32 AM
just to come in on the back end of this discussion, Edwards was hand picked by Dick Vermeil. He was never purely "Carl's guy." He just listened to what Vermeil thought about his successor.


To get back to the original post, after watching the Pioli press conference today, I'm on board. Pioli said everything exactly right. The philosophy is exactly what I agree with and exactly what I've been defending since I arrived on this board. I think his approach to the current staff and roster only gives him more clout as a person who's ready to be "THE GUY" in my opinion. While Edwards may not be the best guy for the job at the end of the process, at least he isn't coming in and cleaning house immediately without evaluations. I like his approach to the opportunity presented in front of him and I do think he's the right guy for this job.

Good hire by Clark Hunt in my opinion. :sign0098:
I am thinking yes. :sign0098: Clark!

texaschief
01-15-2009, 03:19 AM
This article is definitely interesting as it concerns Herman Edwards.

http://kan.scout.com/2/830350.html?refid=400

nigeriannightmare
01-16-2009, 01:16 AM
This article is definitely interesting as it concerns Herman Edwards.

Scout.com: Pioli Praises Edwards (http://kan.scout.com/2/830350.html?refid=400)


Dude that aritcle is smoke and mirrors. Let's not forget this is a business, that is partly politics. He is saying everything that needs to be said to keep the peace. He probably is going to talk to him but some of the pleasantries he was saying about Herm... Smoke and Mirrors. Some of this was way too nice, trying way too hard to give complliments.

Chief Tyler
01-16-2009, 02:02 AM
Dude that aritcle is smoke and mirrors. Let's not forget this is a business, that is partly politics. He is saying everything that needs to be said to keep the peace. He probably is going to talk to him but some of the pleasantries he was saying about Herm... Smoke and Mirrors. Some of this was way too nice, trying way too hard to give complliments.

I agree, you don't get off on a good foot with a new organization by publicly humiliating the current staff in your first press conference. Also, Pioli claims that he follows a similar line of thinking as Herm Edwards, but ideology is half the battle, and during the Herm Edwards era we haven't seen the execution half. Edwards may very well be our coach next year, but to take the press conference as praise when the coaches are jumping ship to other teams may be a stretch.

hardcorechiefsfan
01-17-2009, 12:34 AM
Herm has done an alright job putting together a young team, he has done marginal in then coaching that team. Herm was never the guy we needed for this team, I said it when he was hired and I am saying it again now. He has always been a good judge of talent, but he just does not know how to prepare for a game, and get the team ready to play.

He does not make good calls on the field, does not know how to manage the clock, he has a terrible perpensity to place blame on others when the blame falls squarely on him. I would rather keep Larry Johnson than keep Herm Edwards at this point.
Keep LJ?????

Hayvern
01-17-2009, 12:46 AM
Keep LJ?????

Yep, I would rather keep LJ on the team than keep Herm Edwards. At least if we are winning, LJ will be happy. You see LJ is like Terrel Owens, if the team is not winning then he is mouthing off about how everyone around him sucks, but put a few numbers in the win column and he is quiet and happy as a clam.

Keep him out of the bars and we can keep him on the field.

hardcorechiefsfan
01-17-2009, 01:17 AM
I guess I'm getting tired and my bed is calling me because I don't have the energy to argue why we should get rid of LJ. Gnite Hayvern.