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dbolan
01-20-2009, 09:57 AM
I have been a fan for at least 20 years...So tell me why we have not had a REAL standout reciever WITH a complimentary #2??

I remember J.J. Birden, Willie Davis, Derrick Alexander and Joe Horn and FEW more. Although Horn was not THE go to guy and Alexander on the tail end of his career.

What about Sylvester Morris? Nothing.

Whoever takes the helm, or stays at the helm, needs to be sure that we get 2 more noteworthy recievers.

Oh..A couple of more things..With TG and DB, that is a great start but we have to have some SPEED to compliment and keep the defense stretched.

hometeam
01-20-2009, 10:14 AM
Wrs are a dime a dozen. DB can improve his hands and be a solid #1. As for a #2, with TG you can put almost anyone over there and have a good 2nd.

WR's are the easiest to replace, and least value to the offense IMO. If you don't already have a Fitzgerald/Moss/Rice type on your team then I wouldnt worry too much about finding one of those guys, unless they just fall into your lap. Before Trent Greens concussion KC had the most passing yards over a several season span, with Eddie Kennison as our #1.. and who the hell was our #2? I cant even remember, but that shows you how little WR's mean to an offense when you have the most passing yards over a 4 or 5 season span, and cant even remember who your QB was throwing too~

yashi
01-20-2009, 10:16 AM
Ironically, this was the first year, maybe ever.. that I was happy with our WRs. I thought Bradley did a great job of stretching the field when he was healthy. And while not a WR, Tony jumped right back to being the best TE in the league this season after he was starting to be written off because of his age.

If there's anyone I was disappointed with, it was Bowe. Although his numbers were very good, watching every game this year I saw WAY too many drops on easy balls. He seems to suffer from the same problem Brandon Marshall does: catch all the tough ones, drop the easy ones. He's not an explosive breakaway guy, so he really needs to develop better hands so he can be more of a possession receiver. I'm hard on him because I see a ton of potential, but I will admit he's one of the best in the league at bodying up on DBs (Tony is THE best).

leaves
01-20-2009, 10:29 AM
I, too, was happy with our WR's. Bowe is still successful with his butterhands, Bradley worked out well, Gonz is TG, and even Darling did some things for us. We don't really have a solid #1 WR, but a team doesn't need one. There's a number of other things we can do to support the cause.

dbolan
01-20-2009, 11:51 AM
HEY Hometeam...

We had an offensive line to speak of, a running game, and a vet QB in the system....which opens up the pass.

Still, no title, eh?

We have Bowe. That is cool. TG helps for sure. We need a speedster or someone very quick with good hands like a Wes Welker.

Bike
01-20-2009, 12:22 PM
HEY Hometeam...

We had an offensive line to speak of, a running game, and a vet QB in the system....which opens up the pass.

Still, no title, eh?

We have Bowe. That is cool. TG helps for sure. We need a speedster or someone very quick with good hands like a Wes Welker.
We also need 4 offensive linemen and at least 8 new starters on defensive. Lets build our lines first. We need to work inside-out...

jmlamerson
01-20-2009, 12:41 PM
We also need 4 offensive linemen and at least 8 new starters on defensive. Lets build our lines first. We need to work inside-out...

Amen. Look at the Cards. Although Fitzgerald and Warner are very important reasons why the Cards are SB bound, the big difference between 2008 and earlier years was the Cards building up their OL and front seven through the draft and FA. Guys like Calais Campbell, Mike Gandy, Deuce Letui, Reggie Wells, Travis LaBoy, Bryan Robinson, and Levi Brown are a very large part of the reason why the Cards beat the Panthers and the Eagles. These young draft picks and good 2008 FAs on the lines are the difference between a SB and not making the playoffs.

Build the lines, and everything else falls into place.

hometeam
01-20-2009, 12:42 PM
You are right, no title, but its not becuase lack of WR, it was lack of tackling :P

chiefnut
01-20-2009, 01:05 PM
does anyone know exactly how many draft picks we have this year? i know the pick for Trent was contingent on his playing time and performance. i could not find a "picks by team" list anywhere.

jmlamerson
01-20-2009, 01:33 PM
does anyone know exactly how many draft picks we have this year? i know the pick for Trent was contingent on his playing time and performance. i could not find a "picks by team" list anywhere.

We already got Trent's pick from the Dolphins last year. It was used when we traded up with the Lions to get Albert.

We'll only have seven picks, plus any compensatory picks.

dbolan
01-20-2009, 03:52 PM
We also need 4 offensive linemen and at least 8 new starters on defensive. Lets build our lines first. We need to work inside-out...

I thought we addressed that issue this past year?? Maybe a couple of FA's for the D line and O line and at least ONE known, speedy reciever?

Of course, a productive running back wuld help as well...And yes, I know how important the O Line is to the production. It does need attention but my main point was that to my knowledge, over the past 22 years...Where's the recieving core??

We had Montana and a good O line and very good defense....No recievers....Shall I go on?

We need to get one through FA or a couple of our guys need to STEP IT UP on '09. :bananen_smilies046:

hometeam
01-20-2009, 03:59 PM
We didnt address the issue last year. We lost an all pro DE, have no solid starting LBs, only one DT (in Dorsey, and we still need to see how that works out) and could do with replacing 4 of our offensive lineman.

Like I said, WR's are a dime a dozen, and many good ones can be had in the low rounds, not to mention the glut of 2nd/slot Wr's every year in FA.

jmlamerson
01-20-2009, 04:24 PM
We didnt address the issue last year. We lost an all pro DE, have no solid starting LBs, only one DT (in Dorsey, and we still need to see how that works out) and could do with replacing 4 of our offensive lineman.

Like I said, WR's are a dime a dozen, and many good ones can be had in the low rounds, not to mention the glut of 2nd/slot Wr's every year in FA.

We don't need to replace four of our OL unless Waters retires. Albert (as LT, RT, or RG) and Waters are definite starters next year.

Of our OL and front seven, we do need to replace Niswanger, Jones, McIntosh, Hali, Tank, Turk/Boone, Thomas, and D. Edwards/D. Williams.

I'd be sold on drafting a DE/DT if this draft weren't so poor at the position. Orakpo and Johnson are undersized, and we don't need any more undersized DL.

KristofLaw
01-20-2009, 04:27 PM
I thought we addressed that issue this past year?? Maybe a couple of FA's for the D line and O line and at least ONE known, speedy reciever?

Of course, a productive running back wuld help as well...And yes, I know how important the O Line is to the production. It does need attention but my main point was that to my knowledge, over the past 22 years...Where's the recieving core??

We had Montana and a good O line and very good defense....No recievers....Shall I go on?

We need to get one through FA or a couple of our guys need to STEP IT UP on '09. :bananen_smilies046:Maybe Cincy'll drop the ball and let Housh go.

Bike
01-20-2009, 04:27 PM
I thought we addressed that issue this past year?? Maybe a couple of FA's for the D line and O line and at least ONE known, speedy reciever?

Of course, a productive running back wuld help as well...And yes, I know how important the O Line is to the production. It does need attention but my main point was that to my knowledge, over the past 22 years...Where's the recieving core??

We had Montana and a good O line and very good defense....No recievers....Shall I go on?

We need to get one through FA or a couple of our guys need to STEP IT UP on '09. :bananen_smilies046:
We addressed wr 2 years ago when we drafted Bowe with our 1st pick.
We got to shore up our lines and lbs yesterday.
I agree wr is an important position to aquire. But the Chiefs have earned the undesirable distinction of having to draft for need. CP and Herm have screwed up this team to the point that we can't afford to go after the so-called sexy pick (Crabtree) while we have so many other holes to fill...

Bike
01-20-2009, 04:40 PM
We don't need to replace four of our OL unless Waters retires. Albert (as LT, RT, or RG) and Waters are definite starters next year.

Of our OL and front seven, we do need to replace Niswanger, Jones, McIntosh, Hali, Tank, Turk/Boone, Thomas, and D. Edwards/D. Williams.

I'd be sold on drafting a DE/DT if this draft weren't so poor at the position. Orakpo and Johnson are undersized, and we don't need any more undersized DL.
But we will need a replacement for Waters eventually. Also what do you think of Penn St. DE Aaron Maybin? At
6-4 255 he has pretty good size...

leaves
01-20-2009, 04:56 PM
Here's an idea: buncha you guys think ARI's dumb enough to shoot for LJ, they have a grouchy Anquan Boldin, let's do it up. The FA WR's are a pretty shallow pool this year so I'd say grab some guys outta draft: Harvin, Britt, Hay-Bey, Williams, maybe Bardin (he's effin 6-6).

Bike
01-20-2009, 04:59 PM
Ok the hell with OL, DL, and LB's. Lets draft wide recievers!!!

jmlamerson
01-20-2009, 05:02 PM
But we will need a replacement for Waters eventually. Also what do you think of Penn St. DE Aaron Maybin? At
6-4 255 he has pretty good size...

Doesn't Maybin weigh in closer to 245?

Aaron Maybin Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1721)

Tell the truth, I'm looking for a 270+ DE for our line. I like Maybin, Johnson, and Orakpo, but smaller DEs only seem to do well when someone larger is on the other side. We all grew pretty tired last year of watching lighter guys like Turk, Tank, Dorsey, and Hali get blown off the line by 300+ OL. I want a Mario Williams, Dwight Freeney, JA, Seymour, or Aaron Smith on the line. Especially if we plan on the (smaller) Dorsey to be a long term fixture of our DL.

We do need a replacement for Waters, but hopefully we can wait until next year to fix that problem. We have so many holes on our team that that depth just cannot be our priority in FA or the draft. That's where we screwed up in 2008 - we drafted for depth (Charles, Cottam, Morgan, Franklin, Johnston, Robinson, Merritt, and Richardson) instead of need on the second day, and then were shocked when our OL, DL, and LBs fell apart. Even if some of those turn out to be good players(although I have large doubts), they're at best backups and role players.

Every pick in this draft should be someone we hope to have as a starter on opening day. And given the number of vacancies we have, it isn't an unreasonable goal.

Bike
01-20-2009, 05:07 PM
Doesn't Maybin weigh in closer to 245?

Aaron Maybin Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1721)

Tell the truth, I'm looking for a 270+ DE for our line. I like Maybin, Johnson, and Orakpo, but smaller DEs only seem to do well when someone larger is on the other side. We all grew pretty tired last year of watching lighter guys like Turk, Tank, Dorsey, and Hali get blown off the line by 300+ OL. I want a Mario Williams, Dwight Freeney, JA, Seymour, or Aaron Smith on the line. Especially if we plan on the (smaller) Dorsey to be a long term fixture of our DL.

We do need a replacement for Waters, but hopefully we can wait until next year to fix that problem. We have so many holes on our team that that depth just cannot be our priority in FA or the draft. That's where we screwed up in 2008 - we drafted for depth (Charles, Cottam, Morgan, Franklin, Johnston, Robinson, Merritt, and Richardson) instead of need on the second day, and then were shocked when our OL, DL, and LBs fell apart. Even if some of those turn out to be good players(although I have large doubts), they're at best backups and role players.

Every pick in this draft should be someone we hope to have as a starter on opening day. And given the number of vacancies we have, it isn't an unreasonable goal.
Ok sounds good. Sounds like we better draft OL and FA on defense. I'm all about whats best to get to the qb and stuff the run...Thanks for the info...:11:

jmlamerson
01-20-2009, 05:08 PM
Here's an idea: buncha you guys think ARI's dumb enough to shoot for LJ, they have a grouchy Anquan Boldin, let's do it up. The FA WR's are a pretty shallow pool this year so I'd say grab some guys outta draft: Harvin, Britt, Hay-Bey, Williams, maybe Bardin (he's effin 6-6).

Arizona's brain trust has been savvy in picking up bargain FAs and making excellent draft picks. They are in the SB. They aren't trading a Pro Bowl WR for LJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott Pioli didn't build the Pats by blowing high picks on WRs and QBs. He spent his high picks on OL and front seven. And he'll do that here.

Bike
01-20-2009, 05:09 PM
Also I like Monroe to complement Albert for our 1st pick at this point...

jmlamerson
01-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Also I like Monroe to complement Albert for our 1st pick at this point...

Me too. Monroe at LT and Albert at RT is a whole lot better than what we're currently doing.

yashi
01-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Tell the truth, I'm looking for a 270+ DE for our line. I like Maybin, Johnson, and Orakpo, but smaller DEs only seem to do well when someone larger is on the other side. We all grew pretty tired last year of watching lighter guys like Turk, Tank, Dorsey, and Hali get blown off the line by 300+ OL. I want a Mario Williams, Dwight Freeney, JA, Seymour, or Aaron Smith on the line. Especially if we plan on the (smaller) Dorsey to be a long term fixture of our DL.

Orakpo is 3 inches taller and 8 lbs lighter than Freeney. And opposite him is Robert Mathis, who is only about 245 lbs yet actually had more sacks than Freeney this season (11 to 10.5).

I've lost a bit of faith in Orakpo, but I think Maybin could be the real deal. I read that he was only about 225-230 lbs coming into college, so he has the capability to put on size. Scouts Inc. currently has him as the top DE in this class, and most people thought he would stay in school for his senior year. I don't think he would work with last season's scheme, but if we switch to a 3-4 he could totally become our great stand up pass rusher. If we stay in a 4-3, I don't think he fits.

hometeam
01-20-2009, 06:36 PM
Here's an idea: buncha you guys think ARI's dumb enough to shoot for LJ, they have a grouchy Anquan Boldin, let's do it up. The FA WR's are a pretty shallow pool this year so I'd say grab some guys outta draft: Harvin, Britt, Hay-Bey, Williams, maybe Bardin (he's effin 6-6).


I'll take Boldin for LJ all day~

jmlamerson
01-20-2009, 07:07 PM
Orakpo is 3 inches taller and 8 lbs lighter than Freeney. And opposite him is Robert Mathis, who is only about 245 lbs yet actually had more sacks than Freeney this season (11 to 10.5).

I've lost a bit of faith in Orakpo, but I think Maybin could be the real deal. I read that he was only about 225-230 lbs coming into college, so he has the capability to put on size. Scouts Inc. currently has him as the top DE in this class, and most people thought he would stay in school for his senior year. I don't think he would work with last season's scheme, but if we switch to a 3-4 he could totally become our great stand up pass rusher. If we stay in a 4-3, I don't think he fits.

There's no way a 245 lb DE like Maybin works in a 3-4. We'd have to move him to LB (which might actually work really well). Terrell Suggs is too small to play DE in a 3-4, and he's bigger than Maybin. Look at the Pats (Warren and Seymour), Steelers (A. Smith and Keisel), and Ravens (Pryce and Bannan) DEs - they're huge. They're bigger than our current DTs!

Mathis only gets the sacks he does because he has Freeney eating up double teams all game. If you paired Mathis with a small DE, his production would drop precipitously. See Hali, Tamba for reference.

True that Freeney is only 8 lbs heavier, and he's a little shorter even. I may be shorting Orakpo some, simply because I don't trust UT grads in the NFL anymore. We've seen so many can't miss UT players miss this decade. And we've been burned soooo many times on the DL these past three years. I just want a can't-miss prospect like Oher, A. Smith, Monroe, Curry, or (my favorite) Maualuga.

leaves
01-20-2009, 11:13 PM
I was making a joke of the situation between Boldin and the staff, since this is a topic about wr's and there's been a topic with at least 6 people who thought Arizona would be willing to trade for him, it was conventional.

I'm not suggesting that we shoot for all the WR's I listed either, but in the draft we should be willing to draft 1 or 2. There's seven rounds of fun, so let's not get too bland out on just grabbing OL, DE, and LB's especially when there's an enormous FA pool with them.

yashi
01-21-2009, 09:25 AM
There's no way a 245 lb DE like Maybin works in a 3-4. We'd have to move him to LB (which might actually work really well). Terrell Suggs is too small to play DE in a 3-4, and he's bigger than Maybin. Look at the Pats (Warren and Seymour), Steelers (A. Smith and Keisel), and Ravens (Pryce and Bannan) DEs - they're huge. They're bigger than our current DTs!

That's why I said he'd be a great stand up pass rusher in a 3-4, similar to the roles Ware, Harrison, and Merriman play for their respective teams. His speed and ability to sack the QB are undeniable. This scouting report from 3 days ago says that he could be a future NFL sacks leader.

Aaron Maybin Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1721)

I really want to switch to a 3-4 at this point. It seems to be the sexy thing to do these days and the best scheme for getting consistent pressure on the QB. Obviously personnel is an issue at this point, but if Dorsey could make the move to 3-4 DE and we can sign a true NT I think it could work. I realize Dorsey's length isn't ideal for a 3-4 DE, but I believe with the right coaching he can do it well. I also believe that Maybin is a double digit sack guy as a 3-4 OLB.

One huge advantage is that quality 3-4 personnel is MUCH easier and cheaper to acquire than 4-3. The most difficult piece is getting a great NT to anchor it.

dbolan
01-21-2009, 09:39 AM
Without a doubt, there are several areas that need addressed and concerning WR's, I do not think that using our 1rst pick for one is wise.

Go to FA and pick up a very good reciever to compliment Bowe. This would push him to perform and have some veteran leadership. TJ Houshmenuada would be a very good compliment and there are others that will be available as well.

Again, why do we ALWAYS ignore our WR corp?

When Vermeil was here and we scored a lot of points, yes we had a better line and we had a running game as well. The O-line also needs time to GEL. Any team will attest to that. If the entire line is on a constant shuffle from year to year, what do you expect?

As it stands, we really do not have a reciever that pulls multiple player coverage.

We need some speed with hands to compliment Bowe's size.

RB's, LB's and Linemen are a dime a dozen as well if you have enough scouting talent to notice them and use the right scheme to accentuate their strong points.

:beer:

Bike
01-21-2009, 12:07 PM
HELLO PEOPLE. Who gives a sh!t about wr's if there is nobody upright to deliver the ball to them.
Or that we currently field the leagues 31st ranked defense.
Its all about priorities.
And its all about beer. I think I'll have 1 or 12 right now.

jmlamerson
01-21-2009, 12:12 PM
Without a doubt, there are several areas that need addressed and concerning WR's, I do not think that using our 1rst pick for one is wise.

Go to FA and pick up a very good reciever to compliment Bowe. This would push him to perform and have some veteran leadership. TJ Houshmenuada would be a very good compliment and there are others that will be available as well.

Again, why do we ALWAYS ignore our WR corp?

When Vermeil was here and we scored a lot of points, yes we had a better line and we had a running game as well. The O-line also needs time to GEL. Any team will attest to that. If the entire line is on a constant shuffle from year to year, what do you expect?

As it stands, we really do not have a reciever that pulls multiple player coverage.

We need some speed with hands to compliment Bowe's size.

RB's, LB's and Linemen are a dime a dozen as well if you have enough scouting talent to notice them and use the right scheme to accentuate their strong points.

:beer:

We have more WR talent on the team now than we did in any Vermeil year. Eddie Kennison was a trooper, but he had the skills of a low-end 2WR and he put up 1WR numbers because we had a good QB and great OL.

And you're not watching enough football if you think good linemen and LBs are a dome a dozen.

dkennedy2323
01-21-2009, 12:21 PM
Our line can't hold blocks long enough for a WR to get open downfield.... and if they do, I'm not sure Thigpen has the arm strength or downfield accuracy to make those big-play throws.... We need to fix our line first... Bulking up on WR now would be like putting expensive chrome wheels on our '92 Corolla that keeps breaking down.

chiefnut
01-21-2009, 12:43 PM
being a PSU fan i love Maybin, but he only has one year experience plus he is young and undersized. he will not make an immediate impact. if he drops down and we can get him to develop over two years he'll be great.

jmlamerson
01-21-2009, 02:10 PM
That's why I said he'd be a great stand up pass rusher in a 3-4, similar to the roles Ware, Harrison, and Merriman play for their respective teams. His speed and ability to sack the QB are undeniable. This scouting report from 3 days ago says that he could be a future NFL sacks leader.

Aaron Maybin Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1721)

I really want to switch to a 3-4 at this point. It seems to be the sexy thing to do these days and the best scheme for getting consistent pressure on the QB. Obviously personnel is an issue at this point, but if Dorsey could make the move to 3-4 DE and we can sign a true NT I think it could work. I realize Dorsey's length isn't ideal for a 3-4 DE, but I believe with the right coaching he can do it well. I also believe that Maybin is a double digit sack guy as a 3-4 OLB.

One huge advantage is that quality 3-4 personnel is MUCH easier and cheaper to acquire than 4-3. The most difficult piece is getting a great NT to anchor it.

I agree that Maybin could be a great OLB in a 3-4. And I agree that moving to a 3-4 isn't a terrible idea. We just have to be prepared to have a bad couple of seasons, as a 3-4 takes time to gel and we have almost no personnel that are 3-4 players.

Our whole front seven would need to go. DJ is too soft for the 3-4, and our other LBs are hopeless. We could try Dorsey as a DE, but I'm not optimistic. Tyler, Hali, and Turk would obviously need to go. Page doesn't have a 1/10 of the toughness needed. I'm even worried about Flowers and Carr in the 3-4, as they'll have a lot more man coverage than they did this year. Pollard would probably have the best adjustment, as he could stop being thrown into 1 on 1 coverage all the time.

Frankly, I'm OK with ditching most of this lot. But it will take us a few seasons to build a legitimate 3-4 defense.

yashi
01-21-2009, 02:28 PM
Our whole front seven would need to go. DJ is too soft for the 3-4, and our other LBs are hopeless. We could try Dorsey as a DE, but I'm not optimistic. Tyler, Hali, and Turk would obviously need to go. Page doesn't have a 1/10 of the toughness needed. I'm even worried about Flowers and Carr in the 3-4, as they'll have a lot more man coverage than they did this year. Pollard would probably have the best adjustment, as he could stop being thrown into 1 on 1 coverage all the time.

Frankly, I'm OK with ditching most of this lot. But it will take us a few seasons to build a legitimate 3-4 defense.

yeah, that's kind of the thing for me. I already see most of the personnel as hopeless anyway.

Here's an interesting one. I've heard reports from Detroit beat writers saying that they think it's less and less likely that the Lions will select a QB. IF the Lions and Rams both go OT, and it becomes clear that we'll be shifting to a 3-4, do we take a hard look at B.J. Raji to play NT? Senior Bowl scouts are already saying this guy is appearing to be far and away the best lineman in the draft, offensive or defensive. It's awkward even thinking it considering we took Dorsey last year, but how many players are capable of being a complete difference maker in run defense? We talk so much about how bad the pass rush was, but the run defense was awful too, 30th in the league.

Just a thought.

leaves
01-21-2009, 02:32 PM
I'd like to see the change to 3-4. I mean, our defense can't get much worse, and I'd really like to see DJ and Hali be able to use their speed since the past system (and coordination) made Hali useless and Johnson got stuck up doing the MLB thing of waiting for guys to come to you.

jmlamerson
01-21-2009, 02:46 PM
yeah, that's kind of the thing for me. I already see most of the personnel as hopeless anyway.

Here's an interesting one. I've heard reports from Detroit beat writers saying that they think it's less and less likely that the Lions will select a QB. IF the Lions and Rams both go OT, and it becomes clear that we'll be shifting to a 3-4, do we take a hard look at B.J. Raji to play NT? Senior Bowl scouts are already saying this guy is appearing to be far and away the best lineman in the draft, offensive or defensive. It's awkward even thinking it considering we took Dorsey last year, but how many players are capable of being a complete difference maker in run defense? We talk so much about how bad the pass rush was, but the run defense was awful too, 30th in the league.

Just a thought.

If Lions and Rams both got OT, and we want to go with a 3-4, we need to pick Maualuga. I don't mind trading back into the 1st round to get Raji (which we could probably do between 15-20) if he's as good as you say, but Maualuga is the best defensive player in this draft, and he was built to play ILB in a 3-4.

Also, some mixture of Monroe, Oher, and Smith will be available to us at 3, so if we're determined to get a LT, a good one should be available.

yashi
01-21-2009, 03:09 PM
If Lions and Rams both got OT, and we want to go with a 3-4, we need to pick Maualuga. I don't mind trading back into the 1st round to get Raji (which we could probably do between 15-20) if he's as good as you say, but Maualuga is the best defensive player in this draft, and he was built to play ILB in a 3-4.

Also, some mixture of Monroe, Oher, and Smith will be available to us at 3, so if we're determined to get a LT, a good one should be available.
So far scouts have been impressed with Maualuga's tenacity and aggressiveness at the Senior Bowl. Apparently he looks like he's trying to murder the ball carrier every play. There's no doubt he'll be a machine in the running game.

The funny thing is they're saying his biggest asset is also his biggest weakness. Because he's so aggressive, he tends to over-pursue or get caught out of position at times.

Some more about Raji from Todd McShay:

On Monday, we said that Boston College DT B.J. Raji is the clear front-runner to emerge as the top prospect at lineman -- defensive or offensive -- in his class by the time we leave Mobile. After this morning's practice, we now feel that he is one of the top two or three prospects here regardless of position. Raji continues to showcase his rare blend of size, burst and agility, and he manhandled highly touted Oregon C Max Unger on more than one occasion. In fact, he got under Unger's pads, drove him back and then put him on his back on one snap during one-on-one pass-rushing drills.

If he keeps it up, I see him finding a spot in the first 10 selections. I really wouldn't be opposed to drafting anyone that isn't named Stafford or Sanchez at this point, be it Maualuga or someone else as long as they can be a difference maker and not someone who we easily forget is on the field (e.g. Dorsey this year). I think if Maualuga was more of a vocal leader type who could pump up his teammates, I'd be all over him, but everything I've read indicates that he barely talks. He's kind of like a quiet Ray Lewis.

jmlamerson
01-21-2009, 03:34 PM
So far scouts have been impressed with Maualuga's tenacity and aggressiveness at the Senior Bowl. Apparently he looks like he's trying to murder the ball carrier every play. There's no doubt he'll be a machine in the running game.

The funny thing is they're saying his biggest asset is also his biggest weakness. Because he's so aggressive, he tends to over-pursue or get caught out of position at times.

Some more about Raji from Todd McShay:

On Monday, we said that Boston College DT B.J. Raji is the clear front-runner to emerge as the top prospect at lineman -- defensive or offensive -- in his class by the time we leave Mobile. After this morning's practice, we now feel that he is one of the top two or three prospects here regardless of position. Raji continues to showcase his rare blend of size, burst and agility, and he manhandled highly touted Oregon C Max Unger on more than one occasion. In fact, he got under Unger's pads, drove him back and then put him on his back on one snap during one-on-one pass-rushing drills.

If he keeps it up, I see him finding a spot in the first 10 selections. I really wouldn't be opposed to drafting anyone that isn't named Stafford or Sanchez at this point, be it Maualuga or someone else as long as they can be a difference maker and not someone who we easily forget is on the field (e.g. Dorsey this year). I think if Maualuga was more of a vocal leader type who could pump up his teammates, I'd be all over him, but everything I've read indicates that he barely talks. He's kind of like a quiet Ray Lewis.

The only knock I've every heard on Raji is that he's just a little too short to be a traditional NT in a 3-4. He's listed as 6'1", but it wouldn't shock me if he were really a couple inches shorter. I want him measured before we pick him.

And I agree, we'd be nuts to take either Stafford or Sanchez in the 1st. Frankly, I see both dropping like stones until the middle of the round, when teams like the Vikings, Jets, and Bucs pick.

yashi
01-21-2009, 03:58 PM
The only knock I've every heard on Raji is that he's just a little too short to be a traditional NT in a 3-4. He's listed as 6'1", but it wouldn't shock me if he were really a couple inches shorter. I want him measured before we pick him.

And I agree, we'd be nuts to take either Stafford or Sanchez in the 1st. Frankly, I see both dropping like stones until the middle of the round, when teams like the Vikings, Jets, and Bucs pick.

I agree, ideally he'd be at least around 6'3" or 6'4", though Casey Hampton is the best of the best when it comes it NTs, and he's listed at 6'1" 325.

Here's a listing of all Senior Bowl measurements:

Draft Countdown - 2009 Senior Bowl Weigh-In (http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/reports/Weigh-In.php)

gotta love that comment, "Stocky fireplug with a huge butt". :lol:

6'1 5/8", 334 lbs. Nice to see he's on the taller side of 6'1" and actually bigger than his listed weight of 323. Normally I'd say he just put away some double cheeseburgers before the weigh in, but being that he's performing so well I don't think that's the case.

yashi
01-21-2009, 04:06 PM
The only knock I've every heard on Raji is that he's just a little too short to be a traditional NT in a 3-4. He's listed as 6'1", but it wouldn't shock me if he were really a couple inches shorter. I want him measured before we pick him.

And I agree, we'd be nuts to take either Stafford or Sanchez in the 1st. Frankly, I see both dropping like stones until the middle of the round, when teams like the Vikings, Jets, and Bucs pick.

I agree, ideally he'd be at least around 6'3" or 6'4", though Casey Hampton is the best of the best when it comes it NTs, and he's listed at 6'1" 325.

Here's a listing of all Senior Bowl measurements:

Draft Countdown - 2009 Senior Bowl Weigh-In (http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/reports/Weigh-In.php)

gotta love that comment, "Stocky fireplug with a huge butt". :lol:

6'1 5/8", 334 lbs. Nice to see he's on the taller side of 6'1" and actually bigger than his listed weight of 323. Normally I'd say he just put away some double cheeseburgers before the weigh in, but being that he's performing so well I don't think that's the case.

jmlamerson
01-21-2009, 04:37 PM
I agree, ideally he'd be at least around 6'3" or 6'4", though Casey Hampton is the best of the best when it comes it NTs, and he's listed at 6'1" 325.

Here's a listing of all Senior Bowl measurements:

Draft Countdown - 2009 Senior Bowl Weigh-In (http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/reports/Weigh-In.php)

gotta love that comment, "Stocky fireplug with a huge butt". :lol:

6'1 5/8", 334 lbs. Nice to see he's on the taller side of 6'1" and actually bigger than his listed weight of 323. Normally I'd say he just put away some double cheeseburgers before the weigh in, but being that he's performing so well I don't think that's the case.

You've convinced me. Let's wheel and deal our way to the Maualuga/Raji foundation for our 3-4 defense!

leaves
01-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Vince Wilfork is only 6'2", so from the sounds of it, I'm sure he'd do fine.

jap1
01-21-2009, 04:53 PM
I always thought that NT werent supposed to be too tall. Being shorter makes it easier for them to get leverage under the centers and drive them back.

One of the knocks on our C Niswanger is that he is too tall to play C (6'5"), which is why some scouts say he should move to guard.

yashi
01-21-2009, 05:12 PM
I always thought that NT werent supposed to be too tall. Being shorter makes it easier for them to get leverage under the centers and drive them back.

One of the knocks on our C Niswanger is that he is too tall to play C (6'5"), which is why some scouts say he should move to guard.

that is a good point. Admittedly I'm not too familiar with what separates a good NT from a bad one, aside from being gigantic and forcing the offense to block him with multiple guys.

It's fun seeing the great ones shove multiple linemen around like they're little kids though. :D

dbolan
01-22-2009, 10:12 AM
HELLO PEOPLE. Who gives a sh!t about wr's if there is nobody upright to deliver the ball to them.
Or that we currently field the leagues 31st ranked defense.
Its all about priorities.
And its all about beer. I think I'll have 1 or 12 right now.

I agree with you on your points as well.

Why do you think the D was 31rst? We had rookies..We had a crappy Tampa cover 2....Our defense was always on the field....We did not have enough of a downfield threat to pursuade the defense to back out of the box...Recievers could NOT get open which is why Thigpen was always running around, buying time.

Deny all of that??? lol

dbolan
01-22-2009, 10:19 AM
Our line can't hold blocks long enough for a WR to get open downfield.... and if they do, I'm not sure Thigpen has the arm strength or downfield accuracy to make those big-play throws.... We need to fix our line first... Bulking up on WR now would be like putting expensive chrome wheels on our '92 Corolla that keeps breaking down.

I never said anything about "bulking up" on WR's. My case is that we need a legit compliment to Bowe...Which would be "speed" in order to stretch the field.

Do we need other positions filled? Sure, we do.

Unfortunately, do not get to see all of the KC games anymore since I am now in Alabama but I try to read and watch as much info as possible and one thing for sure....I never heard any KC WR's, other than Bowe mentioned on Sports Center or anywhere else.

Also, like I said earlier..If they chose to stick with what we have, then someone will have to step up this year in a big way. JMHO

jmlamerson
01-22-2009, 10:27 AM
I agree with you on your points as well.

Why do you think the D was 31rst? We had rookies..We had a crappy Tampa cover 2....Our defense was always on the field....We did not have enough of a downfield threat to pursuade the defense to back out of the box...Recievers could NOT get open which is why Thigpen was always running around, buying time.

Deny all of that??? lol

Not to be too hard on our defensive personnel, but it didn't help that we opened the season with stiffs at MLB (Thomas), DE (Boone/Turk), DT (Tank), and ROLB (Williams/Edwards) who shouldn't have been anywhere near a NFL starting job.

And supposed starters of the future in Hali, DJ, and Page clearly regressed. And that Dorsey, either because of bad coaching or lack of talent, was not the impact rookie the Chiefs claimed he'd be.

I think a significant portion of our problems can be placed on the defensive players themselves, not just the coaches. Our offense did its part in building leads those last nine weeks. Our defense failed spectacularly in holding the lead.

theaxeeffect4311
01-22-2009, 10:38 AM
I never said anything about "bulking up" on WR's. My case is that we need a legit compliment to Bowe...Which would be "speed" in order to stretch the field.

Do we need other positions filled? Sure, we do.

Unfortunately, do not get to see all of the KC games anymore since I am now in Alabama but I try to read and watch as much info as possible and one thing for sure....I never heard any KC WR's, other than Bowe mentioned on Sports Center or anywhere else.

Also, like I said earlier..If they chose to stick with what we have, then someone will have to step up this year in a big way. JMHO

I understand where you are coming from. I think the point the other guy was trying to make is that if you remember back a few years ago when the Chiefs had a top 5 offense, it was not because we had star WRs. We had Eddie Kennison and Samie Parker. What drove the offense was the O-line which dominated the entire game. With a good O-line, a team can control the clock with a solid running game and give the QB enough time to find open receivers.

dbolan
01-22-2009, 10:40 AM
Not to be too hard on our defensive personnel, but it didn't help that we opened the season with stiffs at MLB (Thomas), DE (Boone/Turk), DT (Tank), and ROLB (Williams/Edwards) who shouldn't have been anywhere near a NFL starting job.

And supposed starters of the future in Hali, DJ, and Page clearly regressed. And that Dorsey, either because of bad coaching or lack of talent, was not the impact rookie the Chiefs claimed he'd be.

I think a significant portion of our problems can be placed on the defensive players themselves, not just the coaches. Our offense did its part in building leads those last nine weeks. Our defense failed spectacularly in holding the lead.

Very true..All I am trying to do is show what an asset a speedy deep threat could be.

Take a look at the Steelers stats for the Reg Season:

The had one , 1,000 yd reciever and the TE had over 500. The other 2 (Washington and Holmes) had very nice years and averaged around 14-15 ypc. They provided the quick, fast deep threat.

Tony can't keep producing 1000 yard seasons and if we can have two 1,000 yard recievers, that tells me that there were some others that could not get open, even on the short routes. Opposing defenses used single coverage and filled the box? eh?


Okay...We need lineman? Yes. We need some defense? Yes. We need a QB? Quite possibly so. Do we need a speedy deep threat (holmes, washington,). Sure.

jmlamerson
01-22-2009, 10:55 AM
Very true..All I am trying to do is show what an asset a speedy deep threat could be.

Take a look at the Steelers stats for the Reg Season:

The had one , 1,000 yd reciever and the TE had over 500. The other 2 (Washington and Holmes) had very nice years and averaged around 14-15 ypc. They provided the quick, fast deep threat.

Tony can't keep producing 1000 yard seasons and if we can have two 1,000 yard recievers, that tells me that there were some others that could not get open, even on the short routes. Opposing defenses used single coverage and filled the box? eh?


Okay...We need lineman? Yes. We need some defense? Yes. We need a QB? Quite possibly so. Do we need a speedy deep threat (holmes, washington,). Sure.

Well, the Pats, for their three SBs, never really had a speed guy. Neither did the Steelers (Randel El wasn't that speedy), Bucs, or Ravens.

I do understand your point though. We drafted Will Franklin to be that guy, our coaching staff/scouts unfortunately not realizing that football is a contact sport, even for frail WRs.

Between Bradley, Bowe, and TG, we can probably make do for this season. The FA market is very thin for WRs, and Pioli isn't the type to spend big money on a WR anyway. And we have much bigger problems that we need to focus this draft on.

The playoffs is probably a two-year process (at least) for us anyway. We can't, unfortunately, fix all of the damage done to the Chiefs over one offseason. WR should probably wait until 2010.