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yashi
01-21-2009, 02:43 PM
I don't care for the guy, but he does make some valid points. Not a fan of all the whining though.

Cunningham's Chiefs had lot in common with Lions | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/article/20090121/BLOG21/90121072/1049/rss14)

MOBILE, Ala. — New Lions defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham comes from Kansas City, a team that was a lot like the Lions last season.

The Chiefs ran the Tampa Two defense, were coached by a Tony Dungy disciple and struggled badly, with one of the worst defenses in the NFL and a 2-14 record.

But Cunningham isn’t a Tampa Two guy, and the Chiefs’ defense lacked experience.

“I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defense because I was loyal to Herm Edwards,” Cunningham said today in a conference call. “That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be.”

Cunningham said new Lions coach Jim Schwartz knows that, though Schwartz ran more zone than usual this season as Tennessee’s defensive coordinator.

Cunningham was Schwartz’s linebackers coach for three years with the Titans, and they became close.

Asked if he were entering a situation in Detroit that is similar to Kansas City, Cunningham said teams need experience by keeping good veterans and finding others in free agency.

“The emotions get involved, ‘Oh, we’ll play with all these young players,’ ” Cunningham said. “But what you don’t understand is, they have to be led by guys like Jared Allen.”

The Chiefs traded Allen, one of the best defensive players in the league, to Minnesota before this season.

“If you have a lot of young players that you’re going to draft, you have to make sure you work the whole process,” Cunningham said. “I believe the mistake we made here is that they tried to add some UFA players like Demorrio Williams. Well, he doesn’t have enough experience and enough ability to lead a bunch of rookies. …

“I can at least share what happened here and the pitfalls we ran into and see what the process brings.”

Bike
01-21-2009, 03:19 PM
I don't care for the guy, but he does make some valid points. Not a fan of all the whining though.

Cunningham's Chiefs had lot in common with Lions | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/article/20090121/BLOG21/90121072/1049/rss14)

MOBILE, Ala. — New Lions defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham comes from Kansas City, a team that was a lot like the Lions last season.

The Chiefs ran the Tampa Two defense, were coached by a Tony Dungy disciple and struggled badly, with one of the worst defenses in the NFL and a 2-14 record.

But Cunningham isn’t a Tampa Two guy, and the Chiefs’ defense lacked experience.

“I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defense because I was loyal to Herm Edwards,” Cunningham said today in a conference call. “That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be.”

Cunningham said new Lions coach Jim Schwartz knows that, though Schwartz ran more zone than usual this season as Tennessee’s defensive coordinator.

Cunningham was Schwartz’s linebackers coach for three years with the Titans, and they became close.

Asked if he were entering a situation in Detroit that is similar to Kansas City, Cunningham said teams need experience by keeping good veterans and finding others in free agency.

“The emotions get involved, ‘Oh, we’ll play with all these young players,’ ” Cunningham said. “But what you don’t understand is, they have to be led by guys like Jared Allen.”

The Chiefs traded Allen, one of the best defensive players in the league, to Minnesota before this season.

“If you have a lot of young players that you’re going to draft, you have to make sure you work the whole process,” Cunningham said. “I believe the mistake we made here is that they tried to add some UFA players like Demorrio Williams. Well, he doesn’t have enough experience and enough ability to lead a bunch of rookies. …

“I can at least share what happened here and the pitfalls we ran into and see what the process brings.”
Sorry Gun. Don't be making excuses now. Your loyalties shoulda been to the Chiefs organization and your defense - not to your mis-guided head coach.
Everybody could see that Herm was not the future of this franchise. Everybody but you I suppose.
If you knew something was wrong, such as your zone defense that you deplore, you should have stood up and fixed it. Instead you decided to sit back and watch our defense sink to the bottom of the league as our Chiefs lost game after game.
Whats the worst that coulda happened? Herm might of let you go? Well, you're gone anyway now so no matter.
Sometimes you just have to grow a pair and do whats right.
You didn't do that here.
Good luck in Detroit.

jmlamerson
01-21-2009, 03:29 PM
Sorry Gun. Don't be making excuses now. Your loyalties shoulda been to the Chiefs organization and your defense - not to your mis-guided head coach.
Everybody could see that Herm was not the future of this franchise. Everybody but you I suppose.
If you knew something was wrong, such as your zone defense that you deplore, you should have stood up and fixed it. Instead you decided to sit back and watch our defense sink to the bottom of the league as our Chiefs lost game after game.
Whats the worst that coulda happened? Herm might of let you go? Well, you're gone anyway now so no matter.
Sometimes you just have to grow a pair and do whats right.
You didn't do that here.
Good luck in Detroit.

Yeah, it's hard to respect Gun for spouting off now. If he knew he was the wrong fit for the defense, he should have quit.

He didn't do the Chiefs or himself any good by staying quiet and running schemes he knew wouldn't work.

kcmostwanted
01-21-2009, 04:46 PM
Sad to see this... You guys are correct, he should of grown a pair and stood up to what he believed but instead he sat back and watched the Franchise fall apart.
I don't blame him though.. I mean honestly, he might have thought : "well, maybe next year the young players will learn and we'll be better"..... but it never happened... It's a good time for him to bail out!

It's more Herms fault than his.. I mean we all need paychecks and if we could get away with doing a crappy job and still get paid then of course we're going to do it - until another opportunity opens..Herm should have seen that he wasn't the man for the job and got rid of him.... Oh well I guess they'll both be gone now

Coach
01-21-2009, 04:50 PM
Im personally glad to see that he threw Herm under the bus.

KottkeKU
01-21-2009, 04:59 PM
man i am really happy to see Cunningham go (because he has got to be one of the worst coaches i have ever seen in sports) but i am extremely sad for the Lions because i happen to be a huge detroit lions fan (Barry Sanders is my all time favorite athlete, any sport, so i will forever be a lions fan...having said that, i am born and raised in KC and the chiefs will alwats be no.1)

But the fact that he is saying all this is retarded...why didnt he just leave? thanks for wasting a whole city and nfl organizations time you dumbass...all you had to say was, "i respect you Herm, but i dont run a tampa 2"

the guy sucked anyways, without Derrick Thomas (a future hall of famer) he hasnt had one positive thing ever...

Nel Toille
01-21-2009, 06:26 PM
“That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback.."

Yeah, you did a great job of that this year, Gun. The fact is, we all know you ditched Herm's Cover 2 scheme last year and went with your own scheme and it still didn't work. Your defenses have always been notorious for not being able to tackle, they've been notorious for their lack of focus and your linebackers were always out of position. I used to believe you, Gun. Not anymore. Wonder who we're gonna get?

greg3564
01-21-2009, 06:53 PM
Im personally glad to see that he threw Herm under the bus.

Rep!!!!! I'm sure Gun won't be the last to let Herm have it.

theaxeeffect4311
01-21-2009, 07:02 PM
Yeah, you did a great job of that this year, Gun. The fact is, we all know you ditched Herm's Cover 2 scheme last year and went with your own scheme and it still didn't work. Your defenses have always been notorious for not being able to tackle, they've been notorious for their lack of focus and your linebackers were always out of position. I used to believe you, Gun. Not anymore. Wonder who we're gonna get?

No idea. I think it will depend on who our head coach is next season. I agree with everyone here that Gun missed his chance to speak his mind about Herm's philosophy on defense. Plus, does he think that will make him look better for his new head coach knowing that he did not like the defense he was running but did nothing to change it? But it is just surprising how players under Gunther's defense do not know how to tackle. You would think a linebacker coach would be great at teaching how to tackle. At least the Chiefs have gotten rid of one coach so far.

Seek
01-21-2009, 07:23 PM
Come on guys. You are ripping Gunther for not standing up to his boss and are basically demanding him to get fired on the spot... That isn't real life, at least not to a person who can keep a job.

He tried doing it his bosses way, and he kept quiet doing it. I mean Herm has the no Cursing rule and we know Gunther loved to curse. I didn't hear Gunther whinning about it the last three years. The guy remained loyal to the team, the HC and the city. I thought there was no way he would have come back after they canned him after two years as HC, but he did it and he did it with Class.

greg3564
01-21-2009, 07:34 PM
Come on guys. You are ripping Gunther for not standing up to his boss and are basically demanding him to get fired on the spot... That isn't real life, at least not to a person who can keep a job.

He tried doing it his bosses way, and he kept quiet doing it. I mean Herm has the no Cursing rule and we know Gunther loved to curse. I didn't hear Gunther whinning about it the last three years. The guy remained loyal to the team, the HC and the city. I thought there was no way he would have come back after they canned him after two years as HC, but he did it and he did it with Class.

I agree. How many assistant coaches do we hear of that go public with how they think their head coach is coaching? NONE! You won't have a job in this league very long and probably won't get too many offers once that coach shows you the door. Who wants an assistant crying to the media about how you coach? Little reality check fellas. These assistants keep their mouths shut, because they want to move up.

hometeam
01-21-2009, 07:50 PM
I had a feeling this was the case all along~

jmlamerson
01-21-2009, 07:51 PM
I agree. How many assistant coaches do we hear of that go public with how they think their head coach is coaching? NONE! You won't have a job in this league very long and probably won't get too many offers once that coach shows you the door. Who wants an assistant crying to the media about how you coach? Little reality check fellas. These assistants keep their mouths shut, because they want to move up.

How many coordinators have ever been in charge of a scheme they didn't think would work?!

If Herm was so dead set on the Cover 2 that Gunther couldn't run his offense, Gunther should (1) have found a DC job elsewhere a couple years ago; or (2) kept silent about it after leaving this offseason.

Right now, he looks like a simp for saying that he knew the Chiefs defense wouldn't work with him in charge.

texaschief
01-21-2009, 07:58 PM
Its funny how Gailey can completely rebuild an offense totally against EVERYTHING Herm believed and forced it down Herm's throat, but Cunningham watches Gailey do it, then pisses and moans about Herm "not letting" him do the same.

Gunther be gone.

Chiefster
01-21-2009, 07:59 PM
Im personally glad to see that he threw Herm under the bus.

Yup; turn about is fair play.

Chiefster
01-21-2009, 08:01 PM
Its funny how Gailey can completely rebuild an offense totally against EVERYTHING Herm believed and forced it down Herm's throat, but Cunningham watches Gailey do it, then pisses and moans about Herm "not letting" him do the same.

Gunther be gone.

Do you buy that in an spry can or a powder?:lol:

texaschief
01-21-2009, 08:07 PM
Do you buy that in an spry can or a powder?:lol:

yes.

by mail order only

Chiefster
01-21-2009, 08:11 PM
yes.

by mail order only
I've got my credit card handy! :D

texaschief
01-21-2009, 08:14 PM
I've got my credit card handy! :D

great... send it to me on a PM. :lol:

don't forget the security code on the back

Chiefster
01-21-2009, 08:40 PM
great... send it to me on a PM. :lol:

don't forget the security code on the back

Charge it to resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC. :D

KristofLaw
01-21-2009, 09:04 PM
I wouldn't say he bashed the Chiefs, sounded honest. This is the philosophy behind the Chiefs actions, and it didn't work. Sounds about right to me. Still on the whiny side and against the coaching creed but...

Chief Tyler
01-21-2009, 09:08 PM
I wouldn't call it bashing either, it was true, but he is largely to blame for the defensive failure. He says he supported Herm's defensive scheme and tried to work with it, but I think he should have been a bit bigger than that and let Herm know that something wasn't working. I don't know how much weight a typical DC carries with a coach but Gun should have had quite a bit given his longevity with the organization. I do understand why he might have gone along with Herm's schemes though, money is a great persuader. I don't think I would have given up a paycheck and stepped down just so my spot could be filled by somebody more fitting.

Seek
01-21-2009, 09:48 PM
How many coordinators have ever been in charge of a scheme they didn't think would work?!

If Herm was so dead set on the Cover 2 that Gunther couldn't run his offense, Gunther should (1) have found a DC job elsewhere a couple years ago; or (2) kept silent about it after leaving this offseason.

Right now, he looks like a simp for saying that he knew the Chiefs defense wouldn't work with him in charge.

I can name another under Herm, in Mike Solari.

Gunther told the truth. It is Herm forcing his philosophy on Gunther.

tornadospotter
01-21-2009, 10:47 PM
:11: interesting to say the least. Let us think, gun was here before or after hermie, gun was the HC of the chiefs at one time, fired, came back because of why? who?
This was never a Gunther Defense!
Gun best wishes to you!

dbolan
01-22-2009, 10:59 AM
Sorry Gun. Don't be making excuses now. Your loyalties shoulda been to the Chiefs organization and your defense - not to your mis-guided head coach.
Everybody could see that Herm was not the future of this franchise. Everybody but you I suppose.
If you knew something was wrong, such as your zone defense that you deplore, you should have stood up and fixed it. Instead you decided to sit back and watch our defense sink to the bottom of the league as our Chiefs lost game after game.
Whats the worst that coulda happened? Herm might of let you go? Well, you're gone anyway now so no matter.
Sometimes you just have to grow a pair and do whats right.
You didn't do that here.
Good luck in Detroit.

I am not a huge Gun fan , BUT;

How do you know he did NOT go to Herm about it? Huh??

On the other side of the coin, how many times have you went over your boss's head and/or incorporated a significant change which was against his wishes and still expect to keep your job?

Gun did not slam anybody. I thought it was tactful, yet told us what we already knew which is: Too many rookies and the Tampa 2 was not working with this personnel.

Bike
01-22-2009, 04:33 PM
I am not a huge Gun fan , BUT;

How do you know he did NOT go to Herm about it? Huh??

On the other side of the coin, how many times have you went over your boss's head and/or incorporated a significant change which was against his wishes and still expect to keep your job?

Gun did not slam anybody. I thought it was tactful, yet told us what we already knew which is: Too many rookies and the Tampa 2 was not working with this personnel.
I don't. If Gun went to Herm about the cover-2 and Herm shot him down, Gun shoulda quit on the spot.

dbolan
01-22-2009, 04:51 PM
I don't. If Gun went to Herm about the cover-2 and Herm shot him down, Gun shoulda quit on the spot.

Gun did quit after it was proven that the cover 2 would not work and HErm wuld not budge on it.

Had he quit immediately, he would have looked like a whining baby and diminished his job prospects in the future.

He tried "the man's plan"...It did not work and he wuld not change. So, he seeked employment elsewhere and attained it in rather quick fashion...Which is somehting HErm will not be able to do. haha

Bike
01-22-2009, 05:03 PM
Gun did quit after it was proven that the cover 2 would not work and HErm wuld not budge on it.

Had he quit immediately, he would have looked like a whining baby and diminished his job prospects in the future.

He tried "the man's plan"...It did not work and he wuld not change. So, he seeked employment elsewhere and attained it in rather quick fashion...Which is somehting HErm will not be able to do. haha
Not hardly. What NFL franchise would respect Gun for abandoning a sinking ship because the HC wouldn't let him do his job. He would had found work sooner than later. However, he sure looks like a whining baby now!
HUH???

Sn@keIze
01-22-2009, 05:25 PM
Gunn had a top tier D when he was with the Titans and the best run D.

Its obvious Herm had the ultimate say and wanted to keep his blain vanilla D.

Gunn is right. He is not making excuses.

Sn@keIze
01-22-2009, 05:27 PM
Not hardly. What NFL franchise would respect Gun for abandoning a sinking ship because the HC wouldn't let him do his job. He would had found work sooner than later. However, he sure looks like a whining baby now!
HUH???Wrong! who wants a quitter when the going gets tough.

Bike
01-22-2009, 05:35 PM
Wrong! who wants a quitter when the going gets tough.
Wrong!!! You're not quitting if you're not doing your job anyway!!!

Sn@keIze
01-22-2009, 05:43 PM
Wrong!!! You're not quitting if you're not doing your job anyway!!!OK, look at Bobby Patrino for leaving the Falcons. And how bout Nick Saban?

Yep, they are quite respected in the NFL for abandoning theyre team. Geez Gunn why didnt you give up and follow in their footsteps?!

Bike
01-22-2009, 06:06 PM
OK, look at Bobby Patrino for leaving the Falcons. And how bout Nick Saban?

Yep, they are quite respected in the NFL for abandoning theyre team. Geez Gunn why didnt you give up and follow in their footsteps?!
OK. read my original post on this thread and maybe you can understand why I feel the way I do about Gun. But that was not intended to take anything away from Herm. Losing 23 out of 25 games = bad HC.
Peterson is the real reason our team had 6 wins in the past 2 years. After all, it was CP who brought Herm here and wouldn't start the rebuilding process at that time instead of waiting 2 years...
That being said, I don't think much of anybody - in this case - Gun, that sits idely by and watches our D sink to the bottom of the league. Its all about character and doing whats right. But thats JMO. And everybody else has a right to theirs!
If we all had the same opinions, this would be a real boring place to be!!:bananen_smilies046:

Bike
01-22-2009, 06:09 PM
OK, look at Bobby Patrino for leaving the Falcons. And how bout Nick Saban?

Yep, they are quite respected in the NFL for abandoning theyre team. Geez Gunn why didnt you give up and follow in their footsteps?!
Also Saban and Patrino were head coaches. Different situation that Gunny was in...

Sn@keIze
01-22-2009, 06:17 PM
OK. read my original post on this thread and maybe you can understand why I feel the way I do about Gun. But that was not intended to take anything away from Herm. Losing 23 out of 25 games = bad HC.
Peterson is the real reason our team had 6 wins in the past 2 years. After all, it was CP who brought Herm here and wouldn't start the rebuilding process at that time instead of waiting 2 years...
That being said, I don't think much of anybody - in this case - Gun, that sits idely by and watches our D sink to the bottom of the league. Its all about character and doing whats right. But thats JMO. And everybody else has a right to theirs!
If we all had the same opinions, this would be a real boring place to be!!:bananen_smilies046:no debate there:bananen_smilies046:

Hayvern
01-23-2009, 02:10 AM
I personally am happy that Gunther spouted off about Herm, it really does say a lot about how this team was being run with Herm at the head and I am even more against Herm now. If a leader does not listen to his people, then he is not a good leader. I have every reason to believe that in a team environment, Gunther would have told Herm what the problem was. If he did not, then I have to believe it was because Herm created an environment where discension was not allowed.

I think Gunther was just relaying the very thing many of us on the ChiefsCrowd could see all along. If Herm could not see it then he is even a worse coach that I thought he was.

The good news is that it looks like Herm's days are numbered.

dbolan
01-23-2009, 12:32 PM
Not hardly. What NFL franchise would respect Gun for abandoning a sinking ship because the HC wouldn't let him do his job. He would had found work sooner than later. However, he sure looks like a whining baby now!
HUH???

No he doesn't. He knew that Hermie would throw him under the bus and left before he had the chance and sure enough, he was hired in NO TIME.

We can debate it all day long but the only way to see what the Gunner has in the tank is to watch the Lions D next season and watch Herm's defense (if he is here, or anywhere else). Then a comparison can be made as long as Herm stick to his cover 2. That would be the only way to prove that Gun sux and Herm rules.

dbolan
01-23-2009, 12:34 PM
I personally am happy that Gunther spouted off about Herm, it really does say a lot about how this team was being run with Herm at the head and I am even more against Herm now. If a leader does not listen to his people, then he is not a good leader. I have every reason to believe that in a team environment, Gunther would have told Herm what the problem was. If he did not, then I have to believe it was because Herm created an environment where discension was not allowed.

I think Gunther was just relaying the very thing many of us on the ChiefsCrowd could see all along. If Herm could not see it then he is even a worse coach that I thought he was.

The good news is that it looks like Herm's days are numbered.

ROGER THAT.

Bike
01-23-2009, 01:13 PM
No he doesn't. He knew that Hermie would throw him under the bus and left before he had the chance and sure enough, he was hired in NO TIME.

We can debate it all day long but the only way to see what the Gunner has in the tank is to watch the Lions D next season and watch Herm's defense (if he is here, or anywhere else). Then a comparison can be made as long as Herm stick to his cover 2. That would be the only way to prove that Gun sux and Herm rules.
I think they are both terrible coaches and glad to be rid of both of them....

wildcat
01-23-2009, 01:36 PM
I'll miss Gun, but it was time for him to move on. I hope he does will in Detroit.

chief31
01-23-2009, 04:01 PM
Im personally glad to see that he threw Herm under the bus.


Its funny how Gailey can completely rebuild an offense totally against EVERYTHING Herm believed and forced it down Herm's throat, but Cunningham watches Gailey do it, then pisses and moans about Herm "not letting" him do the same.

Gunther be gone.

Gunther will do well in Detroit.

I think that what he said needed to be said. He showed his loyalty to the team, by being loyal to the man that the team put in charge of him.

I have no doubt that Gun tried to convince Herm to allow a change in defense every day of his time here.

I don't blame Gun for Herms sorry-assed defense.

You tow the team 'line' when you are here, but let the facts out when you leave.

The fact is that Herms defense died because of Jared Allen. If you aren't going to blitz regularly, then you have to have a Jared Allen, or you have no defense.

oldred
01-23-2009, 04:38 PM
I have no doubt that in private Gunther let Edwards know what he thought of the defensive scheme the HC preferred. However Edwards was the boss and in the end it is his call. Personally I have no problem with his explaining why he left the Chiefs for the same job with Detroit. Cunningham's reputation is on the line here and he would have been foolish to not explain his position on the Chief's defensive problems last year.

Wildguzzi
01-24-2009, 10:55 AM
I'll miss Gun, but it was time for him to move on. I hope he does will in Detroit.

+1 I'm new here but have been a chiefs fan since '90. If detroit is smart, they will give Gun complete control on the defense. I love his smash mouth attitude and Detroit's defense will be a force if they let him have the keys to drive it...without questioning him.

Seek
01-24-2009, 05:11 PM
Gunther will do well in Detroit.


He can't do any worse.

Guru
01-24-2009, 05:26 PM
so what was Gun supposed to do? Quit? He answered to Herm.

honda522
01-26-2009, 10:44 PM
It sounds like Herm was wanting it his way. I hope they go back to the 4-3 Defense, that cover 2 is horse $h!t