Trade Idea

[jap1]

My friend was talking about an interesting trade idea for our team. Matt Cassell will probably be traded when (and if) Brady comes back in time to be there for summer workouts. If that is the case, what about we trade our 1st pick to NE for Cassel and their 1st round pick, and maybe a day 2 pick.

Essentially, with the draft value charts we would be using the equivalent of a mid-round pick on Cassel. We could use our 1st and second rounders to either move back down into the mid-early first to Maualuga, or Duke Robinson. Or we use NE 1st for Mack and our 2nd for Herman Johnson or Loadholt.

That would give us an O-line with:
Loadholt/Waters/Mack/Niswanger/Albert
(Albert and Loadholt could be switched around)
or
Albert/Waters/Niswanger/Robinson/??? + Maualuga

Our O-line would be set, and we would have a pretty decent QB, and maybe our franchise LB.

Personally I like Thigpen, and Im not super impressed with Cassel, and I doubt NE would want to trade for a top 5 pick. That being said, what do you guys think?

[Bike]

We will probably have to wait to see if NE franchises Cassel. If they do it will cost them 17 mil.
With Brady gettin' up there in years and with his slow rehab, I don't see NE letting him go.
On the other hand, maybe Bilecheat has another qb he's eying and would be willing to trade Cassel to add to their cap room rather than subtract from it.
Who knows...

[jmlamerson]

My friend was talking about an interesting trade idea for our team. Matt Cassell will probably be traded when (and if) Brady comes back in time to be there for summer workouts. If that is the case, what about we trade our 1st pick to NE for Cassel and their 1st round pick, and maybe a day 2 pick.

Essentially, with the draft value charts we would be using the equivalent of a mid-round pick on Cassel. We could use our 1st and second rounders to either move back down into the mid-early first to Maualuga, or Duke Robinson. Or we use NE 1st for Mack and our 2nd for Herman Johnson or Loadholt.

That would give us an O-line with:
Loadholt/Waters/Mack/Niswanger/Albert
(Albert and Loadholt could be switched around)
or
Albert/Waters/Niswanger/Robinson/??? + Maualuga

Our O-line would be set, and we would have a pretty decent QB, and maybe our franchise LB.

Personally I like Thigpen, and Im not super impressed with Cassel, and I doubt NE would want to trade for a top 5 pick. That being said, what do you guys think?

If we can make that trade, we make that trade. It makes sense in a lot of ways for both teams.

This big problem for NE is that they're giving up their backup QB and taking on a whole lot of rookie salary - for whom? Curry is really the only possible top 5 pick that makes any sense for NE, and I don't see the thrifty Pats paying top-5 money for a LB. Especially not in the last year or two before a rookie cap.

If we want Cassel, we'd probably have to make a trade like our 2nd this year and 2nd in 2010 - something similar to the Schaub trade. Frankly, I don't see enough difference between him and Thigpen for it to be worth it.

[balto]

Cassel is TRASH and giving anything for him would be stupid!!!!!!!!

Sorry but Cassel is no better then what we have in Thigpen. Neither Thiggy or Cassel are our QOTF and it would be stupid to give up anything for Cassel when we already have someone just as good in Thipen.

I would rather draft one and take a chance if we MUST choose between Cassel and say Stafford.

I would rather work out something with another team for say Brohm or someone like that.

[Bike]

Yeah I really don't see Pioli trading for qb's this year.
We gotta fix our lines 1st thing.

[Nel Toille]

My friend was talking about an interesting trade idea for our team. Matt Cassell will probably be traded when (and if) Brady comes back in time to be there for summer workouts. If that is the case, what about we trade our 1st pick to NE for Cassel and their 1st round pick, and maybe a day 2 pick.

the biggest problem for this is NE wouldn't want our first round pick. They'd probably want to stay where they're at so switching picks with them for Cassel wouldn't be logical to the Patriots. Drafting high isn't as appealing to owners as it is to us fans. When teams draft late, they are still just as likely to pick up someone as good, or even better in some cases, than players drafted in the top 10. The biggest upside is they don't have to spend nearly as much money on those players. I think it would take more to get Cassel and I'd rather just pick up Mark Sanchez if we'd be trying to address QB with our first round pick.

[Lazeye]

[Cassel is TRASH and giving anything for him would be stupid!!!!!!!!] I AGREE 100% with this. Thiggy got better all year and with a fixed line and hooking up with our WR'S and Tony in 08 and getting use to Chan and his plan, he will be alot better in 09. All those close games we lost he has learned from and I think he will win those this year.

[hometeam]

YUCK YUCK YUCK I DO NOT WANT MATT CASSEL. Think of what Thigpen could have done on that team, the same and better!

If we get cassel I am going to puke. do.not.want. we can get the same production out of a guy we already have!

[Pro_Angler]

Thig is just as good if not better then Cassel. he is just as accurate and is more mobile then Cassell. I think we stick with thigpen and improve our o-line. And get a RB that has some heart.

[OTR Chiefs fan]

Thig is just as good if not better then Cassel. he is just as accurate and is more mobile then Cassell. I think we stick with thigpen and improve our o-line. And get a RB that has some heart.

I agree. Thigpen is as good as Cassell IMO. Besides, I don't think NE will let him go, even if Brady is ready for training camp. Besides, we have more pressing issues on the team than worrying about a QB. :D

[Codac]

Thig is just as good if not better then Cassel. he is just as accurate and is more mobile then Cassell. I think we stick with thigpen and improve our o-line. And get a RB that has some heart.

You can't be serious! Thig and Cassel are two completely different style QBs. You can't compare them. Not to mention the 2 completely different situations. Cassel had alot more to work with.
Plus why does everyone have to be bias! Just because he is our first decent QB in a while everyone thinks he is so good. He only had a DECENT season last year.
Once again. I like Thigpen, but I'm still not convinced he is the Man yet.

[hometeam]

Ill say it once, I will say it again. Just becuase the media is fawning over cassel it doesnt mean hes something hes not. he played on the patriots FFS. Thigpen couldve done the same and better in the same circumstances. Forget Cassel he isnt worth a 7th round pick let alone starting QB pay! no.no.no.no and no.wrong.bad.wrong.no!

[balto]

I hate Cassel and it would be stupid to give anything for him BUUUT how about this???

Our 3rd overall

FOR

Bill Belichick and Cassel

LOLOLOLOL

Hell we gave a 4th for Herm, I would give a first for Bill and Cassel hehe

[theaxeeffect4311]

You can't be serious! Thig and Cassel are two completely different style QBs. You can't compare them. Not to mention the 2 completely different situations. Cassel had alot more to work with.
Plus why does everyone have to be bias! Just because he is our first decent QB in a while everyone thinks he is so good. He only had a DECENT season last year.
Once again. I like Thigpen, but I'm still not convinced he is the Man yet.

However, Cassel only had one Good season. If you are going to argue that Thigpen does not deserve the job after one season, then the same can be said about Cassel.

And no one is saying that Thigpen is the Man. Most of us are saying he gets the job for now. We give him a year to prove himself and if he can do it, then great, we found out QB. If he can't then too bad, but we don't lose anything when we make Thigpen our backup and draft a QB in 2010.

[hardcorechiefsfan]

My friend was talking about an interesting trade idea for our team. Matt Cassell will probably be traded when (and if) Brady comes back in time to be there for summer workouts. If that is the case, what about we trade our 1st pick to NE for Cassel and their 1st round pick, and maybe a day 2 pick.

Essentially, with the draft value charts we would be using the equivalent of a mid-round pick on Cassel. We could use our 1st and second rounders to either move back down into the mid-early first to Maualuga, or Duke Robinson. Or we use NE 1st for Mack and our 2nd for Herman Johnson or Loadholt.

That would give us an O-line with:
Loadholt/Waters/Mack/Niswanger/Albert
(Albert and Loadholt could be switched around)
or
Albert/Waters/Niswanger/Robinson/??? + Maualuga

Our O-line would be set, and we would have a pretty decent QB, and maybe our franchise LB.

Personally I like Thigpen, and Im not super impressed with Cassel, and I doubt NE would want to trade for a top 5 pick. That being said, what do you guys think?
I'm more impressed with Cassel than I am with Thiggie. Cassel showed that he can pick up where Brady left off and still do good.
Thiggie, well yes he did good when he had to but he didn't know how to play after halftime any more than the rest of the players minus except for TG(he never had any problem playing after halftime).
Yes, I'd like to get Cassel if possible.

[N TX Dave]

I'm more impressed with Cassel than I am with Thiggie. Cassel showed that he can pick up where Brady left off and still do good.
Thiggie, well yes he did good when he had to but he didn't know how to play after halftime any more than the rest of the players minus except for TG(he never had any problem playing after halftime).
Yes, I'd like to get Cassel if possible.

Again was it TT that forgot how to play at halftime? Or was it the coaches (ours or the other team) ours for going into the do not lose mode or the other team for making adjustments? As far as Cassel picking up where Brady left off TT picked up and improved where either of our QB's left off. I mean he scored more points it is just that the defense just took another step backward and gave up more points.

We scored 10,8,14,33,0 and 10 to start the season and finished with 21,27,19,20,20,31,20,17,21,31 and 6 So without TT we averaged 12.5 points per game and with TT we averaged 21.5 per game so he was a big improvement where Cassel stepped in stayed the course. Does that make TT better no but because MC stepped in and continued does not make him better either. I do not know which is better hopefully Pioli can tell which is better. I do know TT is a much cheaper option for the Chiefs that MC will be and that means we can have money to get another player in FA.

[Codac]

I do think Thig deserves the job for 09. I'm just saying don't even compare them. 2 totally different QB's on 2 totally different teams. Niether of them are worth such high draft picks either.

[KristofLaw]

I hate Cassel and it would be stupid to give anything for him BUUUT how about this???

Our 3rd overall

FOR

Bill Belichick and Cassel

LOLOLOLOL

Hell we gave a 4th for Herm, I would give a first for Bill and Cassel hehe
I'm down with that. :D

[Bike]

Thig did ok considering the circumstances. There isn't a qb in the league that would had fared any better with an inept ol, inept play-calling, inept running game, and the leagues 31st ranked defense.
We were in a lot of games, and lost to the eventual afc west champs twice by 1 point each time.
Considering what Thig had to work with, he exceeded my expectations as a rookie qb. I'd take him over Cassel any day of the week, but especially on sundays...

[Frankenchief]

Isn't Cassell a UFA? To trade him they would have to franchise him first.

[theaxeeffect4311]

Isn't Cassell a UFA? To trade him they would have to franchise him first.

It's likely that the Patriots will franchise him for the purpose of trading him.

[Coach]

It's likely that the Patriots will franchise him for the purpose of trading him.

What teams do you think would be in the market for Cassell?

[balto]

The Lions :lol:

HEHE JK I'm guessing HMMM NO ONE!!!!!

Cassel is no good!!!!

[theaxeeffect4311]

What teams do you think would be in the market for Cassell?

The Vikings.

They are the one team I think could pull off trading for Cassel and get good production from him. Brad Childress is not that bad of a coach and I think he would be a good guy to help coach Cassel once he leaves Belichick's wing. I know there will other teams making a play for him, but that is the most logical I think.

[jmlamerson]

What teams do you think would be in the market for Cassell?

Vikings, Bucs, Lions, 49ers, Seahawks, and Panthers.

If he were a FA, the Jets would also give him a look.

[Chief4Ever&Ever]

Cassel also stood behind one of the best lines in the NFL. A large number of QB's could have a nice season behind the pats line. Even Thigpen!

Cassel is not as good as people think he is. Put him behind the Chiefs line and see how many people like him!!

[Lazeye]

Also, think about TT his running skills. He could be like a qb/rb and that can be real helpful keeping the d honest more often than not. He may not be the best type for this but I think he could pull in 35 yds a game easy. What do you all think?
What was his total ypc for his short season?

[theaxeeffect4311]

Also, think about TT his running skills. He could be like a qb/rb and that can be real helpful keeping the d honest more often than not. He may not be the best type for this but I think he could pull in 35 yds a game easy. What do you all think?
What was his total ypc for his short season?

It works slightly because teams would play zone coverage to make sure the QB does not run, but it does make a big advantage. Thigpen ran for 386 yards while Cassel only ran for 270 yards.

[Lazeye]

I had no idea MC ran that much. wonder what TT total would have been if he started all our games and I can't wait to see if they will let him loose or if that is kinda his style. I know this year he was doing it to save his life.

[prough91]

Man, I wish everyone would lose the love for Cassell. I could do what he done with the receivers he had! Left handed!

[jmlamerson]

Man, I wish everyone would lose the love for Cassell. I could do what he done with the offensive line he had! Left handed!

Fixed.

Cassel has great receivers. But it's the scheme and o-line that made him successful.

Look at the Cards this year. Why are they so successful this year as opposed to their previous ones when they had Warner/Boldin/Fitz/Edge? Because the Cards changed their scheme (Haley) and because they upgraded their OL.

[prough91]

Fixed.

Cassel has great receivers. But it's the scheme and o-line that made him successful.

Look at the Cards this year. Why are they so successful this year as opposed to their previous ones when they had Warner/Boldin/Fitz/Edge? Because the Cards changed their scheme (Haley) and because they upgraded their OL.

Exactly.

[jmlamerson]

Exactly.


If three of our first four picks aren't OL this draft, or if we don't get some decent FA OL, I have no hope for 2009.

I, like everyone else, have been guilty of wanting a sexy pick in the 1st round (Crabtree, Maualuga, Curry, etc.), but a blind man could see that upgrading our OL is the only way to success.

[prough91]

If three of our first four picks aren't OL this draft, or if we don't get some decent FA OL, I have no hope for 2009.

I, like everyone else, have been guilty of wanting a sexy pick in the 1st round (Crabtree, Maualuga, Curry, etc.), but a blind man could see that upgrading our OL is the only way to success.

I think one or two would be plenty. Hell, just run it on one side.

[Bike]

I think one or two would be plenty. Hell, just run it on one side.
Sackintosh and Taylor definetely gotta go. Neiswanger ain't far behind...

[prough91]

Sackintosh and Taylor definetely gotta go. Neiswanger ain't far behind...

When we had Roaf and Shields, how often did we run right?

[Bike]

When we had Roaf and Shields, how often did we run right?
I know what you're sayin'. I just can't see fixing half the problem...We really need to solidify the entire OL. These continual 3 and outs arn't gonna win us many games...

[prough91]

I know what you're sayin'. I just can't see fixing half the problem...We really need to solidify the entire OL. These continual 3 and outs arn't gonna win us many games...

Neither's givin up 40 points.

[jmlamerson]

Neither's givin up 40 points.

But we can fix our OL through the draft. We probably can't fix the defense. We have enough young guys underachieving on our front seven.

Tell the truth, without a massive FA binge on defense, I don't see it getting fixed for 3-4 years, no matter how well we draft.

[Bike]

Neither's givin up 40 points.
Yeah. This entire roster needs rebuilt (again). But I think Pioli will build our lines 1st - then go outside...

[prough91]

But we can fix our OL through the draft. We probably can't fix the defense. We have enough young guys underachieving on our front seven.

Tell the truth, without a massive FA binge on defense, I don't see it getting fixed for 3-4 years, no matter how well we draft.

That's why I don't think overpayin a little for Lewis would be such a bad idea. Theres no spark plug on the D right now and I'm guessin that Lewis would make you feel like a b@tch when you mess up or take plays off.

[jmlamerson]

That's why I don't think overpayin a little for Lewis would be such a bad idea. Theres no spark plug on the D right now and I'm guessin that Lewis would make you feel like a b@tch when you mess up or take plays off.

Very true. My gut says he sticks with the Ravens though, as they'll be a popular SB pick next season. The amount of money he'd take to lure away would probably be prohibitive.

[Bike]

Not to sound too obvious, I think whoever we get as HC and DC will also have a lot to do with persuading these FA vets in coming here...

[prough91]

Hire Canada! Who wouldn't want to play for free beer!

[Codac]

Ray Lewis will either stay with the Ravens, or go to New York to follow Rex. So even thinking about him in Red and Yellow is insane.

[theaxeeffect4311]

I think one or two would be plenty. Hell, just run it on one side.

That is the dumbest statement I have ever heard. I thought play calling was predictable under Herm as head coach, but really? You think no one would notice. If you really like the days of Roaf and Shields, then we need to draft linemen to replace them. We need at least two. The smartest way would be to go for three since we won't find any good ones in FA.

[texaschief]

That is the dumbest statement I have ever heard. I thought play calling was predictable under Herm as head coach, but really? You think no one would notice. If you really like the days of Roaf and Shields, then we need to draft linemen to replace them. We need at least two. The smartest way would be to go for three since we won't find any good ones in FA.

Gross and Starks would be nice finds in FA. Get Starks to man the RT spot, draft the best available LT at #3 and slide Albert to one of the guard spots. Draft the best available C in the 3rd. You'll probably find someone like Luigs or Caldwell at #67. That gives you a finished Oline for 2009 and perhaps 2010. That allows you another 2 years (Draft/FA) to find Waters' replacement. By finding a C in the third, that allows you a 2nd round pick to address another need like DE or LB or QB if Sanchez is still available.

[theaxeeffect4311]

Gross and Starks would be nice finds in FA. Get Starks to man the RT spot, draft the best available LT at #3 and slide Albert to one of the guard spots. Draft the best available C in the 3rd. You'll probably find someone like Luigs or Caldwell at #67. That gives you a finished Oline for 2009 and perhaps 2010. That allows you another 2 years (Draft/FA) to find Waters' replacement. By finding a C in the third, that allows you a 2nd round pick to address another need like DE or LB or QB if Sanchez is still available.

How likely do you think that Gross and Starks will be leaving their teams?

[texaschief]

How likely do you think that Gross and Starks will be leaving their teams?

They were both franchised last season. The Steelers also have Willie Colon, Marvel Smith and James Farrior hitting the market as UFA's. I would think Starks hitting the market is a very real possibility. Gross, not so much.

[theaxeeffect4311]

They were both franchised last season. The Steelers also have Willie Colon, Marvel Smith and James Farrior hitting the market as UFA's. I would think Starks hitting the market is a very real possibility. Gross, not so much.

Starks can be a possibility and I think he is a good choice for RT.

[texaschief]

Here's a trade idea. The Chiefs trade a conditional 2010 1-2 round pick for Matt Leinart. We get our franchise QB who's been learning from Kurt Warner for two seasons. His current OC could possibly be the new HC for the Chiefs. The Chiefs could bolster their defense through free agency and draft the best OT #3, best WR #35 and best C #67.

Suddenly, the draft pick the Chiefs lose for Leinart isn't nearly as bad because this team will probably make the playoffs. This move would give the Chiefs their franchise QB for a pick much lower than #3 and would prevent the Chiefs from wasting a pick on Sanchez this season. Basically, the Chiefs could be getting a franchise LT this season at #3 and paying for their franchise QB for a late first round pick next season.

I realize not too many people are high on Leinart right now and that could help the Chiefs get him for a much cheaper price if Haley believes he's worth it. Haley would know better than anyone if Leinart was worth a first round pick in 2010. If he believed Leinart was worth the pick, I'd pull the trigger and get my QB in place this season along with a brand new O-line and fortified defense.

With those improvements, you have to believe this team would be picking in the mid to late twenties in 2010. I think that would be worth the price of bringing in our franchise QB.

[balto]

Texaschief,

I LOVE the idea of going after Leinart so we don't have to reach this year, but from what i have read the Cards might give him to us for alot less then a 1st. The Cards (from what I have heard) are either gonna rsign Warner OR make Leinart the starting QB. They have a ton of money in Leinart for him to just sit the bench. Plus it seems Warner likes a 3 year deal..... Not sure the Cards would sign him to that kinda deal and keep Leinart too.

If the Cards keep Warner they will either try to trade Leinart, ask him to redo his contract, or just release him.

I'm guessing they will try to redo his contract, but as long as it took to sign him when he was a rookie I'm guessing that won't work.

So honestly if the Card keep Warner then look for this trade to happen or he might even get released.

[jmlamerson]

Here's a trade idea. The Chiefs trade a conditional 2010 1-2 round pick for Matt Leinart. We get our franchise QB who's been learning from Kurt Warner for two seasons. His current OC could possibly be the new HC for the Chiefs. The Chiefs could bolster their defense through free agency and draft the best OT #3, best WR #35 and best C #67.

Suddenly, the draft pick the Chiefs lose for Leinart isn't nearly as bad because this team will probably make the playoffs. This move would give the Chiefs their franchise QB for a pick much lower than #3 and would prevent the Chiefs from wasting a pick on Sanchez this season. Basically, the Chiefs could be getting a franchise LT this season at #3 and paying for their franchise QB for a late first round pick next season.

I realize not too many people are high on Leinart right now and that could help the Chiefs get him for a much cheaper price if Haley believes he's worth it. Haley would know better than anyone if Leinart was worth a first round pick in 2010. If he believed Leinart was worth the pick, I'd pull the trigger and get my QB in place this season along with a brand new O-line and fortified defense.

With those improvements, you have to believe this team would be picking in the mid to late twenties in 2010. I think that would be worth the price of bringing in our franchise QB.

I really like this idea - but there's one big problem. I think Warner retires this year and the Cardinals hand over the reins to Leinart.

[Bike]

Leinart couldn't keep his job in Phoenix. Why is it that we want him?

[yashi]

Ermm... Leinart is their long term QB. You don't trade that player.

[Bike]

Ermm... Leinart is their long term QB. You don't trade that player.
I hope you're right. KC is too far from Hollywood for this guy...

[yashi]

I hope you're right. KC is too far from Hollywood for this guy...
KC's teenage girls aren't trashy enough for him.

oh, and he's not a very good football player either.

[theaxeeffect4311]

Here's a trade idea. The Chiefs trade a conditional 2010 1-2 round pick for Matt Leinart. We get our franchise QB who's been learning from Kurt Warner for two seasons. His current OC could possibly be the new HC for the Chiefs. The Chiefs could bolster their defense through free agency and draft the best OT #3, best WR #35 and best C #67.

Suddenly, the draft pick the Chiefs lose for Leinart isn't nearly as bad because this team will probably make the playoffs. This move would give the Chiefs their franchise QB for a pick much lower than #3 and would prevent the Chiefs from wasting a pick on Sanchez this season. Basically, the Chiefs could be getting a franchise LT this season at #3 and paying for their franchise QB for a late first round pick next season.

I realize not too many people are high on Leinart right now and that could help the Chiefs get him for a much cheaper price if Haley believes he's worth it. Haley would know better than anyone if Leinart was worth a first round pick in 2010. If he believed Leinart was worth the pick, I'd pull the trigger and get my QB in place this season along with a brand new O-line and fortified defense.

With those improvements, you have to believe this team would be picking in the mid to late twenties in 2010. I think that would be worth the price of bringing in our franchise QB.

It's an interesting idea. It will be hard to tell what they will do until Warner retires/re-signs. The one thing we have to ask ourselves is does Leinart show us more as a QB than we can grab in 2010? Leinart has not shown me much and I'm not too impressed by him. I had a similar idea with some of the other QBs in the league, but most of those won't work. You know, guys like Vince Young, Brady Quinn, and Donovon McNabb. But it looks like all their teams want to keep them, so it brings me to my back up choices which would not cost us as much. Guys like Kevin Kolb (McNabb's backup) or Troy Smith (lost the starting job to Flacco). These guys are not great talents, but they have shown me more than Leinart. However, we go back to the idea that are these guys better prospects than us choosing a QB in 2010?

[texaschief]

I really like this idea - but there's one big problem. I think Warner retires this year and the Cardinals hand over the reins to Leinart.

There's no way Kurt Warner retires the season after taking a team to a Super Bowl. His stock is high right now and he's going to try to cash in for a two year deal. I would guess the Cardinals will try to bring him back instead of throwing Leinart back in there. I'm sure they think Warner will give them their best chance to get back to the Super Bowl. The Cardinals want to win NOW and Warner gives them the best opportunity to do that instead of trying to develop a rookie while the team is in contention.


It's an interesting idea. It will be hard to tell what they will do until Warner retires/re-signs. The one thing we have to ask ourselves is does Leinart show us more as a QB than we can grab in 2010? Leinart has not shown me much and I'm not too impressed by him. I had a similar idea with some of the other QBs in the league, but most of those won't work. You know, guys like Vince Young, Brady Quinn, and Donovon McNabb. But it looks like all their teams want to keep them, so it brings me to my back up choices which would not cost us as much. Guys like Kevin Kolb (McNabb's backup) or Troy Smith (lost the starting job to Flacco). These guys are not great talents, but they have shown me more than Leinart. However, we go back to the idea that are these guys better prospects than us choosing a QB in 2010?

I think getting Leinart (a #7 overall pick) for a late first or second round pick while still being able to draft a big time difference maker at #3 at some other position is better than ANY QB prospect available to the Chiefs in this year's draft. Leinart wasn't doing so bad as much as Warner was just playing like he did ten years ago. The Warner from this season wasn't the Warner from his time in New York. You've gotta think that if the Cardinals knew he was going to play at this level, they probably wouldn't have taken Leinart in the first place.