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rustfan76
02-02-2009, 10:27 PM
Anyone have ESPN Insider? News headline for today says Patriots sending Cassel to KC, but can't read story without being a member. Anyone hear of this?

tenacious
02-02-2009, 10:29 PM
HAHA you barely beat me to it.

hometeam
02-02-2009, 10:38 PM
too bad. I really dislike cassell, until he proves otherwise, ESPN is just his fanboy, and he only did anything becuase he was on the pats. Worthless to even think about, especially for the money he is gonna command.

we have other needs.

rustfan76
02-02-2009, 10:59 PM
Cassel stepping in on the Patriots is no different than Steve Young stepping in to the starting job with the 49ers, a team that was built into a Super Bowl team by Montana. Young did nothing in his career until that point, and he is still one the most overrated Qb's in history IMO.

jap1
02-02-2009, 11:12 PM
Anyone have ESPN Insider? News headline for today says Patriots sending Cassel to KC, but can't read story without being a member. Anyone hear of this?

All it says is exactly what everyone has been saying on the forums here since we got Pioli:

Pioli was a Patriot and therefore knows Matt Cassel. So there is a possibility that he will come here. The article also lists Minnesota, Detroit, Tampa, and some other teams as people who would want Cassel.

The story has no evidence behind it other than Pioli used to be a Patriot.

Here is the article for those who cannot read it. Very un-exciting (if that is a word):

Cassel to the Chiefs?
Matt Cassel | Patriots | Interested: Bears? Buccaneers? Panthers? 49ers? Vikings? Lions? Jets? Chiefs?
While much speculation has surrounded whether or not the New England Patriots would use the franchise tag on Matt Cassel for 2009, the Boston Herald has reported a new possibility: Cassel could wind up reuniting with former Patriots vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli in Kansas City.
The Herald's Karen Guregian cites punditry by Sirius NFL radio analyst Jim Miller, who said, "I'd really look at Pioli down there in Kansas City. Why wouldn't he want him? He knows what the kid is capable of doing. So I think he'd be on their radar... If Kansas (City) were to make that deal, that's their Matt Ryan. That's their Joe Flacco. Unlike a [Mark] Sanchez, for instance, they know he's playing at a starter's level. So to them, I think it'd be worth it to do. They'd get their starting quarterback, they know what he's capable of doing, and they've seen him win games at the NFL level."

The Herald lists the New York Jets, Detroit Lions, Minnesota Vikings, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Panthers, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Chicago Bears as the other suitors for Cassel's services.

rustfan76
02-02-2009, 11:15 PM
Thanks for posting.

Sn@keIze
02-03-2009, 12:34 AM
too bad. I really dislike cassell, until he proves otherwise, ESPN is just his fanboy, and he only did anything becuase he was on the pats. Worthless to even think about, especially for the money he is gonna command.

we have other needs.Hmmm, lets see. Cassell= 6'4'' 230 lbs. threw for 3693 yds.21 Tds and 11 ints. rating of 89.4

Thigpen=6'1'' 224 18 TDs and 11 ints. rating of 76.

Now dont get me wrong Thig got hot 2nd half of season. and I think hes earn his right to fight for the starter job if we do get Cassell.

Whats wrong with having 2 good QBs? Starters do get hurt, and I wouldnt mind seeing either one as backup.


Cassel stepping in on the Patriots is no different than Steve Young stepping in to the starting job with the 49ers, a team that was built into a Super Bowl team by Montana. Young did nothing in his career until that point, and he is still one the most overrated Qb's in history IMO.Id like to see Montana scramble and take hits like Young did. Yes he inhereted a good team and may be overrated.

There are also Dynasty teams that lose their QB and the next QB couldnt get the job done. Point is, You have to be a competant QB in this league. I think Thig and Cassell are both.

theaxeeffect4311
02-03-2009, 01:06 AM
The only way I see the Chiefs getting Cassel is if he becomes a free agent or we use 2010 draft picks to trade for him. Not a crazy idea if Pioli thinks he is worthy to trade for. Pioli is said to evaluate talent pretty well, so if he thinks Cassel is a better choice than a 2010 QB, then I'm all for it. I hope the Chiefs get a discounted price for Cassel, but I doubt it.

hometeam
02-03-2009, 11:38 AM
snake. matt cassel was on the pats, he had randy moss and wes welker to throw too.

thigpen was on KC.

enough said about QB ratings.

why pay for cassell again? If he was free maybe i would be more inclined to see him in a KC uniform, but he wont be, and he is going to command a bunch of money becuase ESPN has wood for him.

prough91
02-03-2009, 11:56 AM
snake. matt cassel was on the pats, he had randy moss and wes welker to throw too.

thigpen was on KC.

enough said about QB ratings.

why pay for cassell again? If he was free maybe i would be more inclined to see him in a KC uniform, but he wont be, and he is going to command a bunch of money becuase ESPN has wood for him.

Eggsactly, personally, I think Thiggy would be something of a stud with a good o-line.

yashi
02-03-2009, 01:02 PM
I would love to have both Cassel and Thigpen on the team, BUT... don't we lose two 1st round picks if we sign a franchise tagged player?

I'd still rather have Cassel than Stafford/Sanchez, but I'd definitely rather have a stud lineman.

hometeam
02-03-2009, 01:05 PM
they can franchise him and then trade him at a lesser value if htey like.

i still dont want

dbolan
02-03-2009, 03:14 PM
Cassell is not coming to the Chiefs. Mark my word on that.

Everyone here talks about Croyle being so fragile, yet he was pummeled due to poor o-line protection and no recievers to truly stretch the field. Croyle's downsid eis that he cannot scramble as well as Thigpen.

Regardless...Cassell will not be persuaded to come to KC. Seriously look for him to go elsewhere.

Sn@keIze
02-03-2009, 03:19 PM
Cassell is not coming to the Chiefs. Mark my word on that.

Everyone here talks about Croyle being so fragile, yet he was pummeled due to poor o-line protection and no recievers to truly stretch the field. Croyle's downsid eis that he cannot scramble as well as Thigpen.

Regardless...Cassell will not be persuaded to come to KC. Seriously look for him to go elsewhere.Croyle is a lemon, let him go.

Cassell has a decent chance due to Piolis relationship.

Even if he does decide to give up a 1st round ( which I see a 2nd or 3rd) so what. Our 1st rounders lately have been quite dissappointing. Cassell will be good. Cassell did more than Trent Green did in St. Louis before he came here and he worked out awesome.

yashi
02-03-2009, 03:33 PM
Cassel was sacked more than any other QB in the NFL, and still put up very good numbers. That speaks wonders about his poise and durability, which is the most important thing for a Chiefs QB until the OL is officially fixed.

dbolan
02-03-2009, 04:02 PM
Cassel was sacked more than any other QB in the NFL, and still put up very good numbers. That speaks wonders about his poise and durability, which is the most important thing for a Chiefs QB until the OL is officially fixed.

One more sack that Big Ben and Cassel had more recieving threats (Moss and Welker alone stand out) and running backs that could catch the ball out of the backfield to help take the heat off of him.

Give him Ben's backs and recievers....Better yet...Give Cassel the Chiefs backs and recievers and see what could do! LOL!!

Not to mention the Rushing attack. The Cheifs RB committee totaled about 1450 yards for the season...NE RB's totaled 1900!! That also makes a difference! Weapons DUDE!! WEAPONS!

dbolan
02-03-2009, 04:18 PM
One more sack that Big Ben and Cassel had more recieving threats (Moss and Welker alone stand out) and running backs that could catch the ball out of the backfield to help take the heat off of him.

Give him Ben's backs and recievers....Better yet...Give Cassel the Chiefs backs and recievers and see what could do! LOL!!

Not to mention the Rushing attack. The Cheifs RB committee totaled about 1450 yards for the season...NE RB's totaled 1900!! That also makes a difference! Weapons DUDE!! WEAPONS!

To add more...NE RB's totaled about 770 yds recieving...KC RB's about 390 yds.

Let's compare apples to apples when making props for Cassel. :bananen_smilies046:

Canada
02-03-2009, 04:30 PM
One more sack that Big Ben and Cassel had more recieving threats (Moss and Welker alone stand out) and running backs that could catch the ball out of the backfield to help take the heat off of him.

Give him Ben's backs and recievers....Better yet...Give Cassel the Chiefs backs and recievers and see what could do! LOL!!

Not to mention the Rushing attack. The Cheifs RB committee totaled about 1450 yards for the season...NE RB's totaled 1900!! That also makes a difference! Weapons DUDE!! WEAPONS!

You do understand that we will be trying to put that kind of team together right? Do you think we are going to get a QB and then just try again next season? I a just guessing but they will probably try and improve the offense over the offseason. Just a hunch.

theaxeeffect4311
02-03-2009, 05:46 PM
Cassel was sacked more than any other QB in the NFL, and still put up very good numbers. That speaks wonders about his poise and durability, which is the most important thing for a Chiefs QB until the OL is officially fixed.

Or that speaks about his slow decision making skills. Just a thought.

chief31
02-03-2009, 06:59 PM
To add more...NE RB's totaled about 770 yds recieving...KC RB's about 390 yds.

Let's compare apples to apples when making props for Cassel. :bananen_smilies046:

Just out of curiosity, Who threw all the passes that Those guys were catching?

I'm not saying that Cassel would be a wise move. And I agree that his coming to KC is very unlikely.

But when you get sacked that often, and still manage to accumulate good numbers, there's more to it than receivers.

Also, have you ever heard of Tony Gonzales and Dwayne Bowe? How about Hines Ward, Heath Miller and Santonio Holmes?

Moss and Welker aren't exactly that damn amazing. I like them. But I certainly don't think that they made Tom Brady. Just as I don't think that they made Cassel.

jap1
02-03-2009, 07:00 PM
Cassell is not coming to the Chiefs. Mark my word on that.

Everyone here talks about Croyle being so fragile, yet he was pummeled due to poor o-line protection and no recievers to truly stretch the field. Croyle's downsid eis that he cannot scramble as well as Thigpen.

Regardless...Cassell will not be persuaded to come to KC. Seriously look for him to go elsewhere.

You are right, he is not fragile, Croyle doesnt know how to take a hit. If you watch him get tackled, he doesn't understand how to roll your shoulders and body to brush off hits. Darren Sproles and Dante Hall are smaller than Croyle and take (or took) a lot more hits during their time. Croyle always tried to run over the guy hitting him, while a good RB/WR will roll away from the hit. Unless it is a big RB against a DB, thats the only time you see them purposely keep their body square. This also isnt something I think you can teach someone either. You learn it in Pee Wee/HS.

chief31
02-03-2009, 07:09 PM
You are right, he is not fragile, Croyle doesnt know how to take a hit. If you watch him get tackled, he doesn't understand how to roll your shoulders and body to brush off hits. Darren Sproles and Dante Hall are smaller than Croyle and take (or took) a lot more hits during their time. Croyle always tried to run over the guy hitting him, while a good RB/WR will roll away from the hit. Unless it is a big RB against a DB, thats the only time you see them purposely keep their body square. This also isnt something I think you can teach someone either. You learn it in Pee Wee/HS.

It can be taught. Otherwise those Pee-wee/HS players couldn't learn it.:D

But I grant that he looks awkward in running with the ball. All that means is that he is a pocket-style QB, who should not be running often. (If at all.)

I, for one, would be upset to see Croyle stick around for another season.

dbolan
02-04-2009, 10:02 AM
Just out of curiosity, Who threw all the passes that Those guys were catching?

I'm not saying that Cassel would be a wise move. And I agree that his coming to KC is very unlikely.

But when you get sacked that often, and still manage to accumulate good numbers, there's more to it than receivers.

Also, have you ever heard of Tony Gonzales and Dwayne Bowe? How about Hines Ward, Heath Miller and Santonio Holmes?

Moss and Welker aren't exactly that damn amazing. I like them. But I certainly don't think that they made Tom Brady. Just as I don't think that they made Cassel.

What I was trying to say is this:

Cassel had WAY more rec threats. Quick dumps to RB's and short routes to WR's. On TOP of that, look at the rushing attack...The actual team total for rushing in 2008 was more like 2200 yds.

He was sacked a lot but he also had a check down list that was 500 miles long. His read progression was slower because he was not used to NFL game speed plus he had more than enough options.

My thought is this....Put Croyle or Thigpen in Cassel's shoes and wonder what the outcome would have been.

Bike
02-04-2009, 11:37 AM
What I was trying to say is this:

Cassel had WAY more rec threats. Quick dumps to RB's and short routes to WR's. On TOP of that, look at the rushing attack...The actual team total for rushing in 2008 was more like 2200 yds.

He was sacked a lot but he also had a check down list that was 500 miles long. His read progression was slower because he was not used to NFL game speed plus he had more than enough options.

My thought is this....Put Croyle or Thigpen in Cassel's shoes and wonder what the outcome would have been.
Croyle would've been knocked out of 1st game midway through the 2nd quarter.
Thig gets 'em to the playoffs!!:bananen_smilies046:

Canada
02-04-2009, 11:40 AM
Croyle would've been knocked out of 1st game midway through the 2nd quarter.
Thig gets 'em to the playoffs!!:bananen_smilies046:

They were 11-6 and missed out to SD. No one would have made it to the playoffs there this year!! :D

m0ef0e
02-04-2009, 03:03 PM
Who is this Croyle guy you all keep referring to?

I remember we had some kid in a bubble out there to start the season before Huard came in and got snapped in half and then Thig came in. Is that who you're talking about?

:lol:

Seriously, I wish Croyle the best in whatever he does. Just as long as it's not a spot anywhere on the Chiefs' roster.

hometeam
02-04-2009, 03:16 PM
I figure Croyle will be in KC this year, just becuase he is under contract and we dont HAVE to ttake the cap hit to get rid of him. I doubt he sees playtime but why take the cap hit unless you need to cut him to make cap room~

I say he starts the year at third QB, and ends it the same.

jmlamerson
02-04-2009, 04:47 PM
I figure Croyle will be in KC this year, just becuase he is under contract and we dont HAVE to ttake the cap hit to get rid of him. I doubt he sees playtime but why take the cap hit unless you need to cut him to make cap room~

I say he starts the year at third QB, and ends it the same.

Its almost no cap hit to fire Croyle. And I just don't see any advantage to keeping him. He can't stay healthy through a single game anymore. What possible use does he have to us, except that he wastes a roster spot?

Chiefster
02-04-2009, 05:08 PM
It can be taught. Otherwise those Pee-wee/HS players couldn't learn it.:D

But I grant that he looks awkward in running with the ball. All that means is that he is a pocket-style QB, who should not be running often. (If at all.)

I, for one, would be upset to see Croyle stick around for another season.

I'd be surprised to see him stick around for one more season, he simply has not proven that he can do the job.

yashi
02-04-2009, 05:13 PM
Cut Croyle, keep Gray (big, durable, decent), sign a capable veteran who can play in case Thigpen gets hurt or looks terrible in training camp ala what the Cardinals did with Leinart and Warner.

Recipe for success. The biggest problem is there might not be a capable veteran QB out there. If we played in a West Coast offense, Jeff Garcia would have worked. David Carr might be the best option available, unfortunately...

Chiefster
02-04-2009, 05:17 PM
Cut Croyle, keep Gray (big, durable, decent), sign a capable veteran who can play in case Thigpen gets hurt or looks terrible in training camp ala what the Cardinals did with Leinart and Warner.

Recipe for success.

Maybe Warner will come over with Haley. :D

yashi
02-04-2009, 05:19 PM
Maybe Warner will come over with Haley. :D
it's an interesting thought, though I cringe at the idea of Warner playing behind our current OL. :wheelchair:

Chiefster
02-04-2009, 05:58 PM
it's an interesting thought, though I cringe at the idea of Warner playing behind our current OL. :wheelchair:

Good point.

Bike
02-04-2009, 06:01 PM
it's an interesting thought, though I cringe at the idea of Warner playing behind our current OL. :wheelchair:
Not with Monroe and Loadholt in there!!

jmlamerson
02-04-2009, 06:49 PM
Maybe Warner will come over with Haley. :D

For some reason, I don't see Warner leaving his two excellent receivers, adoring fanbase, warm weather, and a playoff team to come to Arrowhead.

yashi
02-04-2009, 07:30 PM
For some reason, I don't see Warner leaving his two excellent receivers, adoring fanbase, warm weather, and a playoff team to come to Arrowhead.
From what I've heard, he wants 2 years, 18 million. That's a lot of money for a guy who will be 38 next season. I think it really comes down to what the Cardinals decide to do. They have a lot of expensive guys they need to sign.

There's the talks of him retiring also, but I think if a team offers him that kind of money he have trouble saying no.

6xchamps
02-04-2009, 07:35 PM
matt cassell is this year's derek anderson and do you guys really seriously want kurt warner? have you forgotten how BAD he was with NYG?

jmlamerson
02-04-2009, 08:06 PM
matt cassell is this year's derek anderson and do you guys really seriously want kurt warner? have you forgotten how BAD he was with NYG?

Warner was fine with the NYG. Look it up. He was supplanted because Coughlin wanted to start grooming his 1st round QB, not because Warner didn't get the job done.

jmlamerson
02-04-2009, 08:10 PM
From what I've heard, he wants 2 years, 18 million. That's a lot of money for a guy who will be 38 next season. I think it really comes down to what the Cardinals decide to do. They have a lot of expensive guys they need to sign.

There's the talks of him retiring also, but I think if a team offers him that kind of money he have trouble saying no.

The Cards are $42M under the cap for 2009. They'll sign their FA guys like JJ Arrington, Leonard Pope, Bertrand Berry, Karlos Dansby, and Monty Biesel, they'll extend their young stars like Darnell Dockett, and they'll still have oodles of cash to be active in the FA market and sign Warner.

6xchamps
02-05-2009, 12:11 AM
Warner was fine with the NYG. Look it up. He was supplanted because Coughlin wanted to start grooming his 1st round QB, not because Warner didn't get the job done.

TOUCHE good sir. upon further review it is true. he was serviceable in nyg.

he was screwing the pooch in stl before he was ridden out of town enjoyed a brief 9 game. although he wasn't too good in arizona prior to this year either.

Vandelay
02-05-2009, 12:33 AM
Don't need Warner, don't need Cassel. Invest in the O-line and Thigstyle will be just fine.

KristofLaw
02-05-2009, 12:40 AM
Don't need Warner, don't need Cassel. Invest in the O-line and Thigstyle will be just fine.
I'm gonna put it out there again... I think David Carr could be a nice fit. Affordable, no real controversy, he had potential it must still be there. And if not, some depth at the QB through free-agency or a late pick.

hermhater
02-05-2009, 03:53 AM
Don't need Warner, don't need Cassel. Invest in the O-line and Thigstyle will be just fine.

This man knows.

DT14PRIEST
02-05-2009, 07:14 AM
I don't like the idea of picking up Cassel for a huge ticket price. It just seems like too big a risk.

I don't like the idea of picking up Warner or some old journeyman either. I'd like a QB who isn't on his last legs (though I love Warner)

Don't want to see a wasted draft pick on a Sanchez or Stafford. Just goes against the grain of common sense in this case imo.

What I would like to see...

I'd like to see the Chiefs pull off a Miami Dolphin-esque move and pick up a former starter thats looking out...

You know where I'm going with this?

Byon Leftwhich is my idea.

Pick him up, a veteran of the game with a few years left in the tank, and scout the late draft rounds for a QB to groom for the future (a Josh Freeman type) or wait to the 2010 draft and pluck a QB from that draft stock to have him under the wing. Relegate Thigpen to a backup position and then tutor the young QB on the nuances of the game before ultimately putting him in the starting position in the future.

We shouldn't look for 'future leader of the Chiefs Org.' at this time IMO, its just not the right time. Leftwich, a backup to Big Ben of Steel City, proved he still had the touch and always had a bigger arm then Thigpen. His mobility is probably less then that of Thigpens but he has big game experience and a bigger frame to make those short yardage runs that Thigpen always fell on his face to make and never converted. HE is a back up QB so the price tag is cheap and will have at least 1 (if not 2 pending Tony G.) big targets to hit in the passing game. SO in saving with the money we could easily gain CONSIDERABLE value by picking him up for a cheaper then Cassel price tage.

Just my thoughts :P

windwalker
02-05-2009, 08:01 AM
Who is this Croyle guy you all keep referring to?

I remember we had some kid in a bubble out there to start the season before Huard came in and got snapped in half and then Thig came in. Is that who you're talking about?

:lol:

Seriously, I wish Croyle the best in whatever he does. Just as long as it's not a spot anywhere on the Chiefs' roster.

Maybe... just maybe he could play on Clark's soccer team???:lol::lol::lol:

N TX Dave
02-05-2009, 09:41 AM
I don't like the idea of picking up Cassel for a huge ticket price. It just seems like too big a risk.

What I would like to see...

I'd like to see the Chiefs pull off a Miami Dolphin-esque move and pick up a former starter thats looking out...

You know where I'm going with this?

Byon Leftwhich is my idea.

Just my thoughts :P

If we are going to go with someone like Leftwhich why don't we just stick with TT. TT has an upside maybe if you give him a line to stand behind he showed promise. Leftwhich will not get better you know what he will be he has been a starter and not been able to keep the job.

My thoughts.

yashi
02-05-2009, 10:17 AM
If we are going to go with someone like Leftwhich why don't we just stick with TT. TT has an upside maybe if you give him a line to stand behind he showed promise. Leftwhich will not get better you know what he will be he has been a starter and not been able to keep the job.

My thoughts.
Leftwich just won a Super Bowl as a backup, and he's said that he wants to sign with a team where he'll be the starter. He probably wouldn't feel confident having to compete here with a guy who had 18 TDs in 2/3 of a season of playing time for the starting job.

I would want Leftwich as strictly a backup to Thigpen, and I don't think he would be satisfied with that role. Not to mention he has almost as much trouble as Croyle does staying healthy.

jmlamerson
02-05-2009, 10:50 AM
Leftwich just won a Super Bowl as a backup, and he's said that he wants to sign with a team where he'll be the starter. He probably wouldn't feel confident having to compete here with a guy who had 18 TDs in 2/3 of a season of playing time for the starting job.

I would want Leftwich as strictly a backup to Thigpen, and I don't think he would be satisfied with that role. Not to mention he has almost as much trouble as Croyle does staying healthy.

Leftwich is nuts. He has the perfect setup in Pittsburgh right now. I don't see any team committing to him as a long term starter. He'd be a one to two-year stopgap at best. He should remain the best backup in the league with the Steelers.

prough91
02-05-2009, 11:14 AM
Leftwich is nuts. He has the perfect setup in Pittsburgh right now. I don't see any team committing to him as a long term starter. He'd be a one to two-year stopgap at best. He should remain the best backup in the league with the Steelers.

True, but a lot of guys' pride can't handle that, especially after tasting what it's like to start in the league.

dbolan
02-05-2009, 12:05 PM
Let Thiggy, Croyle and Lefty compete for the 1 spot. If we have both of them, it couldn't be all bad, eh?

jmlamerson
02-05-2009, 12:41 PM
Let Thiggy, Croyle and Lefty compete for the 1 spot. If we have both of them, it couldn't be all bad, eh?

If this is your plan, no, I do not want you as HC of the Chiefs.

Croyle? Really?

6xchamps
02-05-2009, 02:06 PM
byron leftwich came in and performed brilliantly when he was called upon in pittsburgh. i hate that he's gonna be gone after this season but i think he showed that he can produce in this league when called upon. the one thing i will say though is he does NOT get the ball out quickly. he's got a crazy passing style...think a pitcher dealing from the windup.:lol: i think he will be a good qb in this league but you have to give him time, if he doesn't have time there will be problems. now when i say "good" don't get it twisted, i'm talking chad pennington, kerry collins good.