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slc chief
02-06-2009, 09:52 PM
boldin says he wants out of arizona for the next year could he be in a kc uniform next season? i personally think we need to build this team from the offense and defensive line first.but i can already hear the bowe boldin rumors coming

chiefsfreak4life
02-06-2009, 10:00 PM
I'd send my first round pick to AZ for Boldin in a heartbeat!!

Bike
02-06-2009, 10:15 PM
Swap LJ for Boldin.

honda522
02-06-2009, 10:29 PM
Hey, he is a free agent. The Chiefs could use another great wide out.

hometeam
02-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Swap LJ for Boldin.


This would be optimum, except that LJ has no trade value and Boldin has tons. Some variation on this idea coul dnet us Boldin though, and I'm all in for that~

Coach
02-07-2009, 12:41 AM
I like the idea of swapping 1st round picks with Arizona to land Boldin. He's going to want 10mil/yr though. That will create problems with resigning Bowe.

Pro_Angler
02-07-2009, 12:43 AM
I'd send my first round pick to AZ for Boldin in a heartbeat!!

why do that when we can get Crabtree and should. Bowe has shown little sign to be the #1 reciever IMO

Chiefster
02-07-2009, 01:10 AM
boldin says he wants out of arizona for the next year could he be in a kc uniform next season? i personally think we need to build this team from the offense and defensive line first.but i can already hear the bowe boldin rumors coming

...Sounds like a plan to me.

Sn@keIze
02-07-2009, 04:28 AM
thing is I think the Cards have more Cap space than we do. If they want Boldin they can afford him.

DT14PRIEST
02-07-2009, 04:49 AM
thing is I think the Cards have more Cap space than we do. If they want Boldin they can afford him.

I think they have about $42 million in cap space if I heard correctly. But even with that I doubt they'd want to up the ante on his price tag and offer him Larry Fitz type money (~$10 million a year) the investment seems to high when you have a #3 reciever in Breston who I think can easily fill in for Anquan and more pressing matters to attend to on the defensive side of the ball. Anquan's got hefty trade value so I think that he'll be out of Arizona for the 09 season.

josh1971
02-07-2009, 04:53 AM
Weren't there some problems between Haley and Boldin? Why would either want to be with the other next year?

jb

TheLombardiTrophy
02-07-2009, 09:28 AM
Boldin definitely wants out of Arizona but don't count on him ending up with the Chiefs. Boldin doesn't like Haley and vice versa, and Pioli doesn't bother with acquiring insubordinate players.

balto
02-07-2009, 09:51 AM
Maybe the Cards should trade with the Giants?

Boldin for Plax

It doesn't help us, but I don't see us getting either.

Chief Tyler
02-07-2009, 11:16 AM
I think they have about $42 million in cap space if I heard correctly. But even with that I doubt they'd want to up the ante on his price tag and offer him Larry Fitz type money (~$10 million a year) the investment seems to high when you have a #3 reciever in Breston who I think can easily fill in for Anquan and more pressing matters to attend to on the defensive side of the ball. Anquan's got hefty trade value so I think that he'll be out of Arizona for the 09 season.

They have a lot of space yes, but look at all the FA's they have to resign. When it's all said and done I think they'll be hurting to retain the players they have, making Boldin all the more less attractive to them.

Coach
02-07-2009, 12:00 PM
I think they have about $42 million in cap space if I heard correctly. But even with that I doubt they'd want to up the ante on his price tag and offer him Larry Fitz type money (~$10 million a year) the investment seems to high when you have a #3 reciever in Breston who I think can easily fill in for Anquan and more pressing matters to attend to on the defensive side of the ball. Anquan's got hefty trade value so I think that he'll be out of Arizona for the 09 season.

Perfectly said. Are you really going to tie up $20 million in 2 WR's, when you have a guy like Steve Breaston waiting in the wings? They have a chacne to get some value for him Boldin now. Easily another 1st rd'er. I think they will make that move otherwise they would have already contacted Boldin. Free agency begins in less than 2 weeks.

Drunker Hillbilly
02-07-2009, 12:00 PM
boldin says he wants out of arizona for the next year could he be in a kc uniform next season? i personally think we need to build this team from the offense and defensive line first.but i can already hear the bowe boldin rumors coming
NOT I repeat NOT coming to KC!!!!!!

honda522
02-07-2009, 12:16 PM
Maybe the Cards should trade with the Giants?

Boldin for Plax

It doesn't help us, but I don't see us getting either.
haha Plax probably wont play again. If he does, by the time he does, he will be past his prime.

slc chief
02-07-2009, 12:20 PM
Boldin definitely wants out of Arizona but don't count on him ending up with the Chiefs. Boldin doesn't like Haley and vice versa, and Pioli doesn't bother with acquiring insubordinate players.

WHERE DID YOU GET THIS BOLDIN DOES NOT LIKE HALEY STUFF FROM. BOLDIN DOES NOT LIKE THE CARDS UPPER MANAGEMENT. AS MUCH AS HALEY GOT BOLDIN INVOLVED IN THE PLAYS DURING THE SEASON I DOUBT HE WOULD MIND THE LITTLE ARGUMENT ON THE SIDELINE THATS FOOTBALL

Coach
02-07-2009, 12:36 PM
Arguments on the sideline happen in EVERY game. This one was just caught on tape. It's being blown WAY out of proportion.

hometeam
02-07-2009, 01:25 PM
I read that after the game Boldin appologized and thanked Haley for helping him keep his head in the game.

dont know how true that is, but I would say its more believable than them hating each others guts~

marloweopatchiefs
02-07-2009, 02:30 PM
i hope we get boldin also

Chiefster
02-07-2009, 02:44 PM
Maybe he and Warner will come over with Haley. :D

Pro_Angler
02-07-2009, 02:48 PM
Arguments on the sideline happen in EVERY game. This one was just caught on tape. It's being blown WAY out of proportion.


\i AGREE 100% WITH THAT STATEMENT. With that being said, I don't think that Boldin is worth more then Crabtree. I wouldnt give up a #1 pick for Bolldin over Crabtree. I would give a 2nd for him though.

dbolan
02-10-2009, 10:13 AM
I like the idea of swapping 1st round picks with Arizona to land Boldin. He's going to want 10mil/yr though. That will create problems with resigning Bowe.

Bowe is not worthy of a high dollar contract resigning. He needs more improvement to live up to his hype or he will end-up being nothing more than a 2 or 3 WR anywhere he goes. Another Sylvester Morris bust.

Sn@keIze
02-10-2009, 10:47 AM
Bowe is not worthy of a high dollar contract resigning. He needs more improvement to live up to his hype or he will end-up being nothing more than a 2 or 3 WR anywhere he goes. Another Sylvester Morris bust.
I absolutaly agree. I dont think near as bad as Morris, and I still think hes too scary too give up on, but...

I finally had enough of him when he couldnt recover that onside kick(I believe against the Chargers).

And they go down and win the game.

A 1st round pick should at least be able to perform on special teams.

yashi
02-10-2009, 11:19 AM
Bowe is not worthy of a high dollar contract resigning. He needs more improvement to live up to his hype or he will end-up being nothing more than a 2 or 3 WR anywhere he goes. Another Sylvester Morris bust.
My feelings on Bowe's hands are well documented, but are we really comparing him to Sylvester Morris? Bowe had 86 catches, 1000+ yards, and 7 TDs in his second season. Morris didn't have a second season...

As much as I think Bowe needs to improve his pass-catching ability, he was easily a top 15 WR last season.

jmlamerson
02-10-2009, 11:33 AM
My feelings on Bowe's hands are well documented, but are we really comparing him to Sylvester Morris? Bowe had 86 catches, 1000+ yards, and 7 TDs in his second season. Morris didn't have a second season...

As much as I think Bowe needs to improve his pass-catching ability, he was easily a top 15 WR last season.

No, I think it's genius. We shouldn't resign our young 1,000 yard WR. I think its a good thing that the Chiefs let all of their young talent leave the team to go elsewhere.:sign0095:

topgonzo
02-10-2009, 12:07 PM
I dont think that Pioli or Haley will necessarily bring in veterans from other teams unless they feel that they could make a immediate impact. Not sure if they would want to pay the type of money that a High Profile receiver would demand especially with the defense having so many question marks.

dbolan
02-10-2009, 12:13 PM
No, I think it's genius. We shouldn't resign our young 1,000 yard WR. I think its a good thing that the Chiefs let all of their young talent leave the team to go elsewhere.:sign0095:

jmlamerson...You just itch for an argument, eh? lol

I never said DO NOT resign him. I said he is not worthy of a high dollar contract at this time.

Now, if he improves even more this upcoming year (less drops, for one thing), then it is worth negotiating, imho.

topgonzo
02-10-2009, 12:18 PM
I agree that I was totally disappointed in the performance of Bowe when he needed to have a big catch or play he seemed to always drop the ball.

jmlamerson
02-10-2009, 12:20 PM
jmlamerson...You just itch for an argument, eh? lol

I never said DO NOT resign him. I said he is not worthy of a high dollar contract at this time.

Now, if he improves even more this upcoming year (less drops, for one thing), then it is worth negotiating, imho.

I do, I admit it.

It's just that we have so few bright spots on this team right now. Players like Bowe, TG, and Thigpen are bright spots. And I keep reading how we need to dump these guys for draft picks or that they're not really future starters. And in the same breath, people defend guys who haven't done anything for the team, like Tank, Dorsey, and Page.

And I just wonder if everyone's crazy but me. That following the plan of dumping our good young players for projects is what you expect from the Royals, not the Chiefs.

dbolan
02-10-2009, 02:05 PM
I do, I admit it.

It's just that we have so few bright spots on this team right now. Players like Bowe, TG, and Thigpen are bright spots. And I keep reading how we need to dump these guys for draft picks or that they're not really future starters. And in the same breath, people defend guys who haven't done anything for the team, like Tank, Dorsey, and Page.

And I just wonder if everyone's crazy but me. That following the plan of dumping our good young players for projects is what you expect from the Royals, not the Chiefs.

Hey I understand but...For arguments sake...I'll bite on this one with uppers and lowers! ;-)

As far as Bowe being a bright spot...WHAT? He is the 2nd best reciever on the team when compared to TG and that being in his 2nd year, right?

The are 2 reasons why he DID get that many catches and 1000 yds (which is a 62 yd avg per game):

1) TG cannot catch 150-200 balls.

2) Other than TG, there was no competition at WR.

So, if you want to keep 2 of your bright spots, TG and Thigpen, I will not debate their performance given the circumstances.

Bowe...He needs to bump it up another notch before he gets a HIGH dollar contract. He was a first rounder and this will be his 3rd year as a Pro. I expect it, I know Pioli and Haley will expect it and HE, above all should expect it.

:bananen_smilies046:

jmlamerson
02-10-2009, 02:20 PM
Hey I understand but...For arguments sake...I'll bite on this one with uppers and lowers! ;-)

As far as Bowe being a bright spot...WHAT? He is the 2nd best reciever on the team when compared to TG and that being in his 2nd year, right?

The are 2 reasons why he DID get that many catches and 1000 yds (which is a 62 yd avg per game):

1) TG cannot catch 150-200 balls.

2) Other than TG, there was no competition at WR.

So, if you want to keep 2 of your bright spots, TG and Thigpen, I will not debate their performance given the circumstances.

Bowe...He needs to bump it up another notch before he gets a HIGH dollar contract. He was a first rounder and this will be his 3rd year as a Pro. I expect it, I know Pioli and Haley will expect it and HE, above all should expect it.

:bananen_smilies046:
Bowe is a second year receiver who has about 1,000 yards a year for the past two years. He's never had a great QB throwing to him. Except Calvin Johnson and maybe Brandon Marshall, he's the best WR in the NFL under 25 years old.

I mean, FFS, what do people want out of the guy?

And it's crazy that people can defend people who have done nothing or massively underachieved for the Chiefs (i.e. our entire defensive front seven) and go after our 24-year-old 1,000 yard WR. He's one of about five Chiefs players who could start for any other team in the NFL. Cut the guy some slack.

Does he deserve to be the highest paid WR in the NFL? No. Are we idiots if we don't pay him market value? Definitely.

yashi
02-10-2009, 02:24 PM
Bowe is a second year receiver who has about 1,000 yards a year for the past two years. He's never had a great QB throwing to him. Except Calvin Johnson and maybe Brandon Marshall, he's the best WR in the NFL under 25 years old.

I mean, FFS, what do people want out of the guy?

And it's crazy that people can defend people who have done nothing or massively underachieved for the Chiefs (i.e. our entire defensive front seven) and go after our 24-year-old 1,000 yard WR. He's one of about five Chiefs players who could start for any other team in the NFL. Cut the guy some slack.

Does he deserve to be the highest paid WR in the NFL? No. Are we idiots if we don't pay him market value? Definitely.

Agree with all of this. And I watched a lot of Brandon Marshall this season, he drops just as many balls as Bowe does.

greg3564
02-10-2009, 02:27 PM
I said this on another thread and I think it bears repeating. It's tough to evaluate any of the young talent on this team because they were so God-awfully coached this year. That includes the positions coaches that are supposed to help with technique. I guy like Gonzales isn't going to have problems anymore. But young players like Bowe need good positions coaches to help them the first few years. So I think this year, more than last, is where the true evaluation of the young players comes from.

dbolan
02-10-2009, 02:42 PM
I do, I admit it.

It's just that we have so few bright spots on this team right now. Players like Bowe, TG, and Thigpen are bright spots. And I keep reading how we need to dump these guys for draft picks or that they're not really future starters. And in the same breath, people defend guys who haven't done anything for the team, like Tank, Dorsey, and Page.

And I just wonder if everyone's crazy but me. That following the plan of dumping our good young players for projects is what you expect from the Royals, not the Chiefs.


Bowe is a second year receiver who has about 1,000 yards a year for the past two years. He's never had a great QB throwing to him. Except Calvin Johnson and maybe Brandon Marshall, he's the best WR in the NFL under 25 years old.

I mean, FFS, what do people want out of the guy?

And it's crazy that people can defend people who have done nothing or massively underachieved for the Chiefs (i.e. our entire defensive front seven) and go after our 24-year-old 1,000 yard WR. He's one of about five Chiefs players who could start for any other team in the NFL. Cut the guy some slack.

Does he deserve to be the highest paid WR in the NFL? No. Are we idiots if we don't pay him market value? Definitely.

Well, I just looked at the 2008 salaries for WR's and for every one I found that was underpaid, I found one that was overpaid.

But, to be fair....Bowe got $2mil in 2008 and I would not see a problem with bumping it up to 3 or 3.5 mil.

jmlamerson
02-10-2009, 02:49 PM
Well, I just looked at the 2008 salaries for WR's and for every one I found that was underpaid, I found one that was overpaid.

I don't see what this has to do with the price of tea in China. Every position has players that are unerpaid and overpaid.


But, to be fair....Bowe got $2mil in 2008 and I would not see a problem with bumping it up to 3 or 3.5 mil.

Wow. When people look at the Chiefs roster now and wonder where the talent went, it's because of attitudes like these.

josh1971
02-10-2009, 05:57 PM
Good points, Mr. Lamerson.

I'm just not sure how a guy with 86 catches, 1,022 yards, and 7 TD's is not considered a good receiver.
Great? Maybe not, and the guy did drop some balls, but clearly he contributed to the offense in 2008, and in a productive, positive way.

I think he'll do so again in 2009.


jb

hometeam
02-10-2009, 06:09 PM
D bowe has been the best reciever out of his class, drops or not.

All he needs is to bump his hands thru offseason catch drill and madden pre-season and he CAN be a solid #1

(madden joke :()

HokieChief 09
02-10-2009, 06:26 PM
I hate these kind of rumors. Could we use Anquan Boldin? Of course. Are we going to get him? No.

It's not realistic enough for us to land him. Swapping draft picks, trading LJ, whatever. It's not going to happen. I highly doubt he's going to want to come to Kansas City, neither will he want to play under Haley. If he did, that would surprise me. And plus, he's not a Pioli guy.

yashi
02-10-2009, 08:40 PM
D bowe has been the best reciever out of his class, drops or not.

All he needs is to bump his hands thru offseason catch drill and madden pre-season and he CAN be a solid #1

(madden joke :()
Outside of Calvin Johnson of course :)

1300 yards 12 TDs with the likes of Culpepper and Dan Orlovsky throwing to him.

Bowe is far and away the 2nd best though.

Bike
02-10-2009, 09:14 PM
Boldin would be a good aquisition for the Chiefs. But not in our current state. The only FA additions we should be looking at are DT, DE, and LB. These positions benefit with more experienced and seasoned players than others IMO. We need to fix this defense NOW!!

Unsterblich856
02-11-2009, 12:14 AM
A little insight on the Boldin situation:

A little before the 2007 season started, Anquan Boldin was promised a new contract and was told it would be first priority. He didn't get that new contract in 2007, but when 2008 rolled around Fitzgerald got his new contract and Dansby was franchise tagged, leaving only $3.5mil left in cap space. Boldin thought he was lied to about getting a new contract and have it be top priority. He was given contract offers but he called them jokes and said he deserved a contract similar to Fitzgerald's, but there simply wasn't enough money. Now the Cardinals have $42mil in cap space (Edge's walking papers aren't filed yet but they will be soon, making it $47mil). He has been offered a new contract, but he has instructed his agent to not look at any new contract and he simply wants out.

If you ask me, the Front Office is going to want a lot in a trade for Boldin. A Johnson-Boldin trade is out of the question, he lost his value (and my freaking fantasy football games). A Gonzo-Boldin trade wouldn't work either since the TEs are almost never a part of the Cardinals passing game, not to mention Gonzo is near the end of his career, so not much value there. A Bowe-Boldin trade would be a bit more equal, but I highly doubt the Chiefs front office would part with Bowe.

Also keep in mind that Boldin has absolutely no leverage in the situation. He still has two years left, and the Cardinals are easily the deepest team in the WR position in the league.

tornadospotter
02-11-2009, 12:31 AM
If we all think we need a WR, there will be plenty to chose from in the latter Rd's of the draft, or as undrafted free agents! Nate Swift from Nebraska will be a choice.

dbolan
02-11-2009, 10:17 AM
I don't see what this has to do with the price of tea in China. Every position has players that are unerpaid and overpaid.



Wow. When people look at the Chiefs roster now and wonder where the talent went, it's because of attitudes like these.

It has to do with the price, for sure and you jsut said that every position has under and over paid talent, so that is the exact point. Why OVER pay him? What has he seriously proved to deserve more than 3.5 mil?? Based on the numbers I looked at, from a financial aspect, I think that is a very fair number for an annual salary.

You are right about people leaving due to salary..I have seen many leave because of it...And many have left other teams as well. The fact of the matter is, Bowe is not a hot commodity to any other NFL team right now for the BIG HUGE bucks based on his production. Other teams are getting 1,000 yards out of their #1's.


So, JM, what is the big deal with averaging 65 yds per game over 16 games? It is just like the running backs...Everyone gauges them on 1,000 yd seasons and there have been plenty of debates on why that benchmark is STILL so low due to the amount of games played in a season.

Again, I never said ditch him. Although I will reiterate that I think ALL positions should be paid on performance laiden contracts, at the end of each year. Afterall, that is how the rest of us get paid and attain increases, right?

Yeah...Go ahead and give Bowe 10mil per year for 5 years and when he facks the rooster over, like many have, then there will be complaints to ditch him.

For crying out loud...Look at LJ...He had a hell of A great year, cried and publicized his RIGHT to GET PAID, then the facker lays eggs for 2 years in a row...Not to mention his problems off the field.

If it was YOUR money, what would you do?

dbolan
02-11-2009, 10:40 AM
I don't see what this has to do with the price of tea in China. Every position has players that are unerpaid and overpaid.



Wow. When people look at the Chiefs roster now and wonder where the talent went, it's because of attitudes like these.

Let's look at numbers and see where he falls with some others:

Here is a list of #2's (for the most part) that went over the 1000 yd mark:

Greg Jennings (caught 80)
Wes Welker (caught 111)
Reggie Wayne
Vincent Jackson
TONY GONZALES- Tight end
Santana Moss
ANQUAN BOLDIN (12 games caught 89)
Derrick Mason (He still plays in the league?? LMAO)

Here are a some other that got just over 1K and just UNDER 1K:

Lee Evans
STEVE BREASTON (caught 77)
DeSean Jackson (caught 62 balls)

The top 5 WR's averaged 1428 yds in 2008 for and avg of 16 yds per catch. Bowe had 1022 for 11.9 per catch.

In the top 5 were Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Steve Smith and Roddy White. One had a rookie QB, one had a shatty QB and the other had a QB that came off of TJ surgery.

Add it up and tell me why Bowe deserves to get more than the 1.5mil increase I suggested.

:beer:

hometeam
02-11-2009, 10:58 AM
Outside of Calvin Johnson of course :)

1300 yards 12 TDs with the likes of Culpepper and Dan Orlovsky throwing to him.

Bowe is far and away the 2nd best though.


If you put rookie + this season together for both Bowe and Johnson, Bowe still comes out on top~

In a fantasy world, a Bowe / Boldin combo would be perfect.

jtandcrew
02-11-2009, 11:13 AM
I disagree with going after Peppers and Lewis and such! I would agree with anything "almost" to going after Boldin! I would love to see Bowe and Boldin as a tag team with TG taking care of the rest!

jmlamerson
02-11-2009, 11:21 AM
It has to do with the price, for sure and you jsut said that every position has under and over paid talent, so that is the exact point. Why OVER pay him? What has he seriously proved to deserve more than 3.5 mil?? Based on the numbers I looked at, from a financial aspect, I think that is a very fair number for an annual salary.

You are right about people leaving due to salary..I have seen many leave because of it...And many have left other teams as well. The fact of the matter is, Bowe is not a hot commodity to any other NFL team right now for the BIG HUGE bucks based on his production. Other teams are getting 1,000 yards out of their #1's.


So, JM, what is the big deal with averaging 65 yds per game over 16 games? It is just like the running backs...Everyone gauges them on 1,000 yd seasons and there have been plenty of debates on why that benchmark is STILL so low due to the amount of games played in a season.

Again, I never said ditch him. Although I will reiterate that I think ALL positions should be paid on performance laiden contracts, at the end of each year. Afterall, that is how the rest of us get paid and attain increases, right?

Yeah...Go ahead and give Bowe 10mil per year for 5 years and when he facks the rooster over, like many have, then there will be complaints to ditch him.

For crying out loud...Look at LJ...He had a hell of A great year, cried and publicized his RIGHT to GET PAID, then the facker lays eggs for 2 years in a row...Not to mention his problems off the field.

If it was YOUR money, what would you do?

If it's my money? I keep our stud 24-year-old WR by paying him market value. I don't offer him a 4 year/$14M contract or any such nonsense.

Bowe's had four QBs (Thigpen, Gray, Huard, and Croyle) over his two years on the job. In 2007, he was stuck playing Herm-ball with Mike Solari. None of those are exactly NFL MVPs. And yet he ekes out 1,000 yards a year.

Something that should have become blindingly obvious to people, but apparently has not, over the Herm/CP era is that good players are not easy to replace with rookie draft picks. You can't replace Kawika Mitchell or Nap Harris with Pat Thomas. You can't replace Jared Allen with Glenn Dorsey. You can't replace Jimmy Wilkerson with Turk McBride. You can't replace Casey Weigmann with Rudy Niswanger. You can't replace Dwayne Bowe with some 6th round draft pick.

Good franchises don't let good players walk away when they can pay market value to retain them. If we don't pay Bowe, some other team will look at his age, his stats, his QBs, and his toughness, and snap him up. If you don't think that, then you vastly overestimate your knowledge of the NFL.

And the comparison between LJ and Bowe is asinine. Look at longevity figures for RB v. WR, and figure out why its good to sign one position long term and bad to sign the other.

jmlamerson
02-11-2009, 11:30 AM
Let's look at numbers and see where he falls with some others:

Here is a list of #2's (for the most part) that went over the 1000 yd mark:

Greg Jennings (caught 80)
Wes Welker (caught 111)
Reggie Wayne
Vincent Jackson
TONY GONZALES- Tight end
Santana Moss
ANQUAN BOLDIN (12 games caught 89)
Derrick Mason (He still plays in the league?? LMAO)

Here are a some other that got just over 1K and just UNDER 1K:

Lee Evans
STEVE BREASTON (caught 77)
DeSean Jackson (caught 62 balls)

The top 5 WR's averaged 1428 yds in 2008 for and avg of 16 yds per catch. Bowe had 1022 for 11.9 per catch.

In the top 5 were Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Steve Smith and Roddy White. One had a rookie QB, one had a shatty QB and the other had a QB that came off of TJ surgery.

Add it up and tell me why Bowe deserves to get more than the 1.5mil increase I suggested.

:beer:

*sigh*

1. Reggie Wayne, Lee Evans, and Santana Moss were the #1 WRs for their teams, not the #2s.

2. Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Boldin were in the most pass happy, prolific offense in the league run by a two-time NFL MVP.

Bowe had a retread, never-was, and 7th round waiver wire QBs (Huard, Croyle, and Thigpen) throwing to him in double coverage 2007 and 2008.

Dropping young stud players because you won't pay them market value is what bad teams do. You either get this or you don't.

dbolan
02-11-2009, 11:50 AM
If it's my money? I keep our stud 24-year-old WR by paying him market value. I don't offer him a 4 year/$14M contract or any such nonsense.

Bowe's had four QBs (Thigpen, Gray, Huard, and Croyle) over his two years on the job. In 2007, he was stuck playing Herm-ball with Mike Solari. None of those are exactly NFL MVPs. And yet he ekes out 1,000 yards a year.

Something that should have become blindingly obvious to people, but apparently has not, over the Herm/CP era is that good players are not easy to replace with rookie draft picks. You can't replace Kawika Mitchell or Nap Harris with Pat Thomas. You can't replace Jared Allen with Glenn Dorsey. You can't replace Jimmy Wilkerson with Turk McBride. You can't replace Casey Weigmann with Rudy Niswanger. You can't replace Dwayne Bowe with some 6th round draft pick.

Good franchises don't let good players walk away when they can pay market value to retain them. If we don't pay Bowe, some other team will look at his age, his stats, his QBs, and his toughness, and snap him up. If you don't think that, then you vastly overestimate your knowledge of the NFL.

And the comparison between LJ and Bowe is asinine. Look at longevity figures for RB v. WR, and figure out why its good to sign one position long term and bad to sign the other.

What is fair market value for him, then?? How is that calculated?

What teams are looking at him?

Longevity? Yes...he can play longer so he should get less than an RB...I agree with that! LOL!

What do you suggest his salary should be? Man up and put a number on it, then maybe we can come to an agreement or agree to disagree!!

As far as knowledge of the NFL....I have seen MANY get a lot of cash and never succeed past that. I have seen MANY STAR recievers take a pay cut to get a SB ring, alas Owens and Moss and even Fitzgerald offered to restructure to keep Boldin.

Remember, I never said "do not pay him more", I said, don't go crazy with the figure.

jmlamerson
02-11-2009, 12:23 PM
What is fair market value for him, then?? How is that calculated?

What teams are looking at him?

Longevity? Yes...he can play longer so he should get less than an RB...I agree with that! LOL!

What do you suggest his salary should be? Man up and put a number on it, then maybe we can come to an agreement or agree to disagree!!

As far as knowledge of the NFL....I have seen MANY get a lot of cash and never succeed past that. I have seen MANY STAR recievers take a pay cut to get a SB ring, alas Owens and Moss and even Fitzgerald offered to restructure to keep Boldin.

Remember, I never said "do not pay him more", I said, don't go crazy with the figure.

He's not a free agent, so no one is looking at him right now. If he were a FA, very few teams wouldn't be.

Bowe should get a salary equal to Wes Welker's, at least. $35M over 5 years seems a pretty good value.

Owens took a pay cut to win a ring? You sure about that?

A WR can play longer so he should make less?

I just thank goodness that you are not even remotely in charge of this team. I wish you would go GM the Broncos or Chargers, and drive those teams into the ground by replacing their star players with low round draft picks.

yashi
02-11-2009, 12:28 PM
What is fair market value for him, then?? How is that calculated?

What teams are looking at him?

Longevity? Yes...he can play longer so he should get less than an RB...I agree with that! LOL!

What do you suggest his salary should be? Man up and put a number on it, then maybe we can come to an agreement or agree to disagree!!

As far as knowledge of the NFL....I have seen MANY get a lot of cash and never succeed past that. I have seen MANY STAR recievers take a pay cut to get a SB ring, alas Owens and Moss and even Fitzgerald offered to restructure to keep Boldin.

Remember, I never said "do not pay him more", I said, don't go crazy with the figure.

Well lets see. He was 9th in the NFL in catches, 17th in yards, and 12th in TDs. So he's roughly the 12th or 13th most productive receiver in the league, right? Forgive my reasoning if it's wrong, but doesn't that mean he should easily be one of the 15 or so highest paid WRs? Numbers are irrelevant right now, it comes down to what that amounts to when he signs an extension.

Let me know if this is flawed reasoning.

jmlamerson
02-11-2009, 12:48 PM
Well lets see. He was 9th in the NFL in catches, 17th in yards, and 12th in TDs. So he's roughly the 12th or 13th most productive receiver in the league, right? Forgive my reasoning if it's wrong, but doesn't that mean he should easily be one of the 15 or so highest paid WRs? Numbers are irrelevant right now, it comes down to what that amounts to when he signs an extension.

Let me know if this is flawed reasoning.

Don't you get it? Becuase Bowe can be a long-term contributor to this team, we should offer him less than half of his market value! And he'll obviosuly resign with us because . . . . . . . ?

But don't worry, if he doesn't resign, we'll plug some 6th round draft pick in there. It worked for the front seven on our defense, right?

yashi
02-11-2009, 01:00 PM
Don't you get it? Becuase Bowe can be a long-term contributor to this team, we should offer him less than half of his market value! And he'll obviosuly resign with us because . . . . . . . ?

But don't worry, if he doesn't resign, we'll plug some 6th round draft pick in there. It worked for the front seven on our defense, right?
Maybe we should fill the whole team with guys who make minimum salaries. We could be the Florida Marlins of the NFL!

jmlamerson
02-11-2009, 01:07 PM
Maybe we should fill the whole team with guys who make minimum salaries. We could be the Florida Marlins of the NFL!

Well, don't forget we'd also have the large salary of the number one pick in the draft every year.

dbolan
02-11-2009, 03:58 PM
He's not a free agent, so no one is looking at him right now. If he were a FA, very few teams wouldn't be.

Bowe should get a salary equal to Wes Welker's, at least. $35M over 5 years seems a pretty good value.

Owens took a pay cut to win a ring? You sure about that?

A WR can play longer so he should make less?

I just thank goodness that you are not even remotely in charge of this team. I wish you would go GM the Broncos or Chargers, and drive those teams into the ground by replacing their star players with low round draft picks.

Well, it is not a contract year anyways so what's the problem?

Lots of low round draft picks make it very well in the league. Do you think evryone playing is/was a first rounder?

Jeeezz...Either you get it or you don't.

There is NO reason at this time to offer the money. NOW, IF he does even better next year I wuld not have a problem with it.

So, there. Whether you like it or not, it is the way I would handle it and regardless of my preference or yours, it does not matter. They are merely opinions.

I would like to work for you....I'd be a fackin multi-millionaire in 6 months. :beer:

jmlamerson
02-11-2009, 04:07 PM
Well, it is not a contract year anyways so what's the problem?

Lots of low round draft picks make it very well in the league. Do you think evryone playing is/was a first rounder?

Jeeezz...Either you get it or you don't.

There is NO reason at this time to offer the money. NOW, IF he does even better next year I wuld not have a problem with it.

So, there. Whether you like it or not, it is the way I would handle it and regardless of my preference or yours, it does not matter. They are merely opinions.

I would like to work for you....I'd be a fackin multi-millionaire in 6 months. :beer:

Yeah, a lot of lower round guys work out. 90% don't.

What can I write other than that your attitude was CP's attitude? That getting rid of good players is what landed us at 2-14.

I'd love for you to work for me too. You can sign a 10-year contract for minimum wage. It's worth it to be part of the team!

dbolan
02-11-2009, 04:30 PM
Yeah, a lot of lower round guys work out. 90% don't.

What can I write other than that your attitude was CP's attitude? That getting rid of good players is what landed us at 2-14.

I'd love for you to work for me too. You can sign a 10-year contract for minimum wage. It's worth it to be part of the team!

What a stroke. I never said let him go and I see no need to offer 7mil a year for 5 years after a 1000 yd season. Go ahead and GIVE it to him, then IF he has a phenom year in the next couple of years, he will damn sure want OUT or another contract just like Boldin and many others.

Whats with the minimum wage comment? You are on a great tyrade and connot even debate with any reason or compromise.

His base salary for 2008 was about $400K,right? After bonuses, etc, he ended up with 2.1 mil? For Christ's sake dude, I even said to give him 3.5mil a year which would and could be a base salary. WTF is so bad about giving him and additional 3mil in GUARANTEED money?

Great God in Heaven.....

I tell ya...If I could do it, I would love to be able to give the 5 year 35mil contract to him just so I could prove to you that 1 of 2 things would happen:

A) He duds out and has the cash in hand for under performing.

b) He studs out within 3 years after the contract and starts crying for more, or wants traded, etc etc.

I want the team to succeed. I have sat in the facking stands in the cold and the rain when NO ONE was there and I have been there when it was packed and rocking.

There have been a LOT of mistakes and that is WHY we have not been able to get passed the 1rst rd of the play-offs in a hundred freakin years!

I never said let him go and I never said DON'T keep him. When the times comes.....Evaluate it then.

jmlamerson
02-11-2009, 04:33 PM
Bowe is not worthy of a high dollar contract resigning. He needs more improvement to live up to his hype or he will end-up being nothing more than a 2 or 3 WR anywhere he goes. Another Sylvester Morris bust.

No, this is what you wrote.

dbolan
02-11-2009, 04:37 PM
No, this is what you wrote.

Yes I did say that...And I do not agree with your suggestion of 35 mil over 5 years at this time, so get over it.

jmlamerson
02-11-2009, 04:47 PM
Yes I did say that...And I do not agree with your suggestion of 35 mil over 5 years at this time, so get over it.

Do you agree with my 10 year, minimum wage deal? You'd be part of the team . . .

dbolan
02-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Do you agree with my 10 year, minimum wage deal? You'd be part of the team . . .

I accept Bowe's minimum wage which according to you is his 08 salary....$2.1 mil.

jmlamerson
02-12-2009, 12:53 PM
I accept Bowe's minimum wage which according to you is his 08 salary....$2.1 mil.

Sure. But (1) I get to have LBs and CBs run into you all day before I start paying you for the year; and (2) if you get injured pre-season, you get cut without any compensation.

dbolan
02-12-2009, 02:01 PM
Sure. But (1) I get to have LBs and CBs run into you all day before I start paying you for the year; and (2) if you get injured pre-season, you get cut without any compensation.


LOL!

Have you ever played or coached at any level?

jmlamerson
02-12-2009, 02:34 PM
LOL!

Have you ever played or coached at any level?

Played through junior college, never coached. You?

dbolan
02-12-2009, 03:37 PM
Played through junior college, never coached. You?

Yep. Played LG in HS until I fractured my spine, right femur and left arm. Played baseball up until then as well.

Coached my sons youth league team (O line and D line) for the past 5 years. Fun stuff. Nice to be able to give a little back to the kids...At no charge, of course ! ;-)

Pro_Angler
02-13-2009, 12:36 AM
I dont think at this point Bowe has proven himself for a big pay day from any team, but hey there are the raiders and the cowboys. I think like i said Crabtree would be cheaper then Boldin and i think he'd be better then Boldin as well.

chief31
02-13-2009, 12:47 PM
Boldin definitely wants out of Arizona but don't count on him ending up with the Chiefs. Boldin doesn't like Haley and vice versa, and Pioli doesn't bother with acquiring insubordinate players.

Aside from this kind of assumption, I have not heard anything about Boldin not getting along with Haley for more than a moment.

I have had moments like that with all of the people that I love in my life. And they are still the people that I love.


I do, I admit it.

It's just that we have so few bright spots on this team right now. Players like Bowe, TG, and Thigpen are bright spots. And I keep reading how we need to dump these guys for draft picks or that they're not really future starters. And in the same breath, people defend guys who haven't done anything for the team, like Tank, Dorsey, and Page.

And I just wonder if everyone's crazy but me. That following the plan of dumping our good young players for projects is what you expect from the Royals, not the Chiefs.

No. It's not just you. I am baffled at how some folks can rip on the players who actually did some goos things and ahowed promise, only to praise those who played horribly.

I certainly don't get it.


I dont think at this point Bowe has proven himself for a big pay day from any team, but hey there are the raiders and the cowboys. I think like i said Crabtree would be cheaper then Boldin and i think he'd be better then Boldin as well.

I would definitely try to lock Bowe up now. And I have zero doubt that 30 NFL teams would be ready to offer him a pretty good-sized deal today, if they could.

Crabtree has never caught a single NFL pass. I have no interest in him. Unless it is as traid bait.

Codac
02-13-2009, 03:42 PM
It doesn't matter how he and Haley get along. He isn't going to be playing for the Chiefs in this lifetime. Besides we don't need to waste that much money on another #1 WR when we already have one.

dbolan
04-16-2009, 10:47 AM
I still think we should shop for Boldin. We have the money to make it happen and still get some more pieces.

balto
04-16-2009, 10:50 AM
LJ
Tony
#3

FOR

Boldin
Dansby
#31

wichitaj
04-16-2009, 01:31 PM
LJ
Tony
#3

FOR

Boldin
Dansby
#31

You must have bumped your head son.

prough91
04-16-2009, 01:36 PM
LJ
Tony
#3

FOR

Boldin
Dansby
#31

Ditto

fairladyZ
04-16-2009, 02:00 PM
i think boldin is out for us. I would love to have him but i don't think we got anything to give ariz in exchange for him. Unless you are all ok with throwing away this year or next years draft.

yashi
04-16-2009, 02:02 PM
Arizonas asking price is a 1st and 3rd rounder for Boldin, and they've already had a bunch of interest.

We would have no picks until round 4. In other words, forget Boldin.

fairladyZ
04-16-2009, 02:57 PM
I think we have a better shot at Brylon Edwards or Chad Johnson. Either one of those i would take.

Only thing that sucks is we need our draft picks to fill holes. So i don't see us getting a WR in trade.

fairladyZ
04-16-2009, 09:17 PM
Boldin, who said he just has a player-coach relationship with former Cardinals (offensive) coordinator Todd Haley, said he wouldn’t mind playing for him in Kansas City.

LolCassell
04-16-2009, 09:59 PM
LJ and 1st round pick would be a steal for boldin.

Vandelay
04-16-2009, 10:44 PM
LJ and 1st round pick would be a steal for boldin.
We need that #3 pick much worse in other areas, like O-line, D-line, and LB.

bigpoppachief
04-17-2009, 12:35 AM
Swap LJ for Boldin.


That is actually a very good idea and AZ needs a RB

AussieChiefsFan
04-17-2009, 01:29 AM
That is actually a very good idea and AZ needs a RB
Come to think of it, it is. But I think LJ might still be a worthy player.

yashi
04-17-2009, 08:56 AM
Boldin is a FA isn't he? If so why would we offer draft picks to sign him? LMAO I could be wrong but who would we give the draft pick to? Even if he isn't a FA the need for a DE or OL is more important than another WR , we picked up Copper and Engram and they are both great WR additions to DBowe . If TG sticks around we will have an awsome attack for defenses to TRY and cover at this point.:lol:

Boldin's not a free agent, he still has 2 years left on his contract.

tornadospotter
04-17-2009, 10:06 AM
LJ and 1st round pick would be a steal for boldin.
For the Cards!

jmlamerson
04-17-2009, 11:30 AM
Swap 1sts and throw in LJ, and that might work, now that LJs bonuses and salary are no longer guarenteed. AZ gets its LTOTF at 3 in Monroe or Smith, and we get a Wes Welker for our offense.

But I don't think Pioli makes that deal. I think he wants a blue chip DL player, and he's not getting one at 31.

jmlamerson
04-17-2009, 08:37 PM
Your just hopin and prayin he goes after Raji, LOL!!! I hope we get Smith OL, we need a bookend to complete our OLine. :bananen_smilies046:
Plus in the interview posted elsewhere Pioli said that they will continue to get more FA as the Offseason goes all the way up to Preseason so I expect to see the needs met.

I would love to get Raji and fill the sieve that is our DL. I wouldn't mind trading down and picking up a blue-chipper like Maualuga or Tyson Jackson either.

I agree that Smith would be a terrific choice - but he isn't lasting past the Rams.

jmlamerson
04-19-2009, 02:33 AM
We won't know who is available until the draft starts and they say the Kansas City Chiefs are on the clock, then they better know what they want as they don't get much time, what is it now 2 or 5 minutes? I thought I heard they were making the time slot less time to make it go faster but I could be wrong.

It's 10 minutes. Down from 15.

okikcfan
04-20-2009, 02:46 AM
In the first round of the draft each team has 10 minutes to make their pick. This used to be 15 minutes, but it was cut down after the 2007 draft in hopes of making the first round a bit less of a marathon for TV viewers - it took more than six hours in 2007. In round two the time has been cut down to seven minutes per pick from the previous 10. Rounds three through seven allow five minutes for each pick. If a team doesn't get to its pick in time it is still allowed to choose, but the teams after it in the NFL Draft order (http://www.docsports.com/current/nfl-draft-order.html) can pick first if they are ready. This happened in 2003. Minnesota was late with their first round pick, and didn't get to make their selection until Jacksonville and Carolina had made theirs.
For the first time in recent years, the first day of the draft will have only two rounds instead of three. The last five rounds of the draft along with the compensatory picks will take place on the second day.

chief31
04-20-2009, 10:53 AM
In the first round of the draft each team has 10 minutes to make their pick. This used to be 15 minutes, but it was cut down after the 2007 draft in hopes of making the first round a bit less of a marathon for TV viewers - it took more than six hours in 2007. In round two the time has been cut down to seven minutes per pick from the previous 10. Rounds three through seven allow five minutes for each pick. If a team doesn't get to its pick in time it is still allowed to choose, but the teams after it in the NFL Draft order (http://www.docsports.com/current/nfl-draft-order.html) can pick first if they are ready. This happened in 2003. Minnesota was late with their first round pick, and didn't get to make their selection until Jacksonville and Carolina had made theirs.
For the first time in recent years, the first day of the draft will have only two rounds instead of three. The last five rounds of the draft along with the compensatory picks will take place on the second day.

Wasn't that 2002, and didn't we select Ryan SImms in front of their Bryant Mckinnie?

Also, this will be the second straight year with only two round on day one. They did it last year.

nigeriannightmare
04-21-2009, 07:43 PM
Swap LJ for Boldin.

Now that's what I'm talking about. I'd celebrate if that happened.:bananen_smilies046: