PDA

View Full Version : Still pimping O-line and D? Let it go; it's QB time.



Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 06:44 PM
The time is now. We will more than likely not have another chance at this.

I'm preferential to Sanchez, but I won't balk at Stafford.

It's time to put the ghost of Blackledge to bed, man up, and start running this franchise right for a change.

Warning:

Posts calling for Crabtree or Curry at third overall will be met with MUCH ridicule.

Warning:

Use of the phrase "Brady in the 6th-round" will get you an anti-freeze ****tail.


Finally, congrats to Edith Morgan for finally seeing her son home where he belongs!
:yahoo:

Hayvern
02-14-2009, 06:52 PM
The time is now. We will more than likely not have another chance at this.

I'm preferential to Sanchez, but I won't balk at Stafford.

It's time to put the ghost of Blackledge to bed, man up, and start running this franchise right for a change.

Warning:

Posts calling for Crabtree or Curry at third overall will be met with MUCH ridicule.

Warning:

Use of the phrase "Brady in the 6th-round" will get you an anti-freeze ****tail.


Finally, congrats to Edith Morgan for finally seeing her son home where he belongs!
:yahoo:

After a long tour of duty in the outer-rim, it appears the long-standing bane of all existance has once again returned from the yonderlands to grace all of us lowly non-force aware beings with his almighty presence!

Welcome back Darth, we missed you.

Now, just for the record, you are terribly wrong in your post, neither of those QB are worthy to be taken early in the draft and even if we drafted them, bringing them in behind our offensive line would pretty much suck any success they may have out faster than a hull breach in your Tie Fighter!

hermhater
02-14-2009, 06:58 PM
O line and D is sexy.

You'll come around Darth.

Chiefster
02-14-2009, 07:00 PM
It's Darth!

The Return of the Umpire!

Chiefster
02-14-2009, 07:02 PM
The time is now. We will more than likely not have another chance at this.

I'm preferential to Sanchez, but I won't balk at Stafford.

It's time to put the ghost of Blackledge to bed, man up, and start running this franchise right for a change.

Warning:

Posts calling for Crabtree or Curry at third overall will be met with MUCH ridicule.

Warning:

Use of the phrase "Brady in the 6th-round" will get you an anti-freeze ****tail.


Finally, congrats to Edith Morgan for finally seeing her son home where he belongs!
:yahoo:

Warning: Power Hungery Mod logged on. :D

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 07:04 PM
After a long tour of duty in the outer-rim, it appears the long-standing bane of all existance has once again returned from the yonderlands to grace all of us lowly non-force aware beings with his almighty presence!

Welcome back Darth, we missed you.

Now, just for the record, you are terribly wrong in your post, neither of those QB are worthy to be taken early in the draft and even if we drafted them, bringing them in behind our offensive line would pretty much suck any success they may have out faster than a hull breach in your Tie Fighter!

Nope. Bad argument. Either one of these guys are better than anything you're gonna' see next year, and using a low value position like linemen to justify being cautious doesn't cut it.
Also, and get in your skull, college QB's running in the spread are not going to be recruited to the Chiefs.
So all you Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy fans?
Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

The Chiefs under Haley will be running a pro-style offense. Thigpen and the Pistol are out; get used to it.
I'm not saying Tyler won't be around, but his game is what will be asked to improve, not the O-Coord trying to make chicken salad from chicken ****.

20 years of Dudley Do-Wrong have created an extremely cautious fan base. 20 years of doing it wrong are about to be broken, eradicated, and wiped from the face of Arrowhead Stadium forever. For those who wanted Carl gone, don't cry when his ways and means go with him.

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 07:06 PM
Warning: Power Hungery Mod logged on. :D

You do realize Claythan is using your sig, yes? :D

Hayvern
02-14-2009, 07:16 PM
Nope. Bad argument. Either one of these guys are better than anything you're gonna' see next year, and using a low value position like linemen to justify being cautious doesn't cut it..

I did not think it was being cautious. Kiper has an OT being taken at 2 and at 4 in his list, while I think overall his list is a waste of time, clearly those two players are being thought of enough to be considered as good or better than Sanchez.


Also, and get in your skull, college QB's running in the spread are not going to be recruited to the Chiefs.
So all you Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy fans?
Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

Of course that takes on consideration we would need to draft a QB next season. I am not convinced at this point we would have to.


The Chiefs under Haley will be running a pro-style offense. Thigpen and the Pistol are out; get used to it.
I'm not saying Tyler won't be around, but his game is what will be asked to improve, not the O-Coord trying to make chicken salad from chicken ****.

Do you ever stop to consider why we went to the spread this season? Is it because of Thigpen? Or was it because our offensive line was like swiss cheese and the only way to keep Thigpen or any other QB from getting their head's knocked off was to give those extra steps? I can't believe you bought into that stupid Herm Edwards who said they did it because Thigpen was more comfortable in the spread. If Thigpen was more comfortable in the spread it is because he had that extra 6 yards to prepare before getting his clock cleaned.


20 years of Dudley Do-Wrong have created an extremely cautious fan base. 20 years of doing it wrong are about to be broken, eradicated, and wiped from the face of Arrowhead Stadium forever. For those who wanted Carl gone, don't cry when his ways and means go with him.

Pioli has never taken a QB that high in the draft. I don't see him doing it now. It is too risky and expensive.

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 07:22 PM
I did not think it was being cautious. Kiper has an OT being taken at 2 and at 4 in his list, while I think overall his list is a waste of time, clearly those two players are being thought of enough to be considered as good or better than Sanchez.

Kiper is a moron who changes his roster every day of the week. I trust NOTHING he says. He and Mortensen should open an ***-Hat Factory together.



Of course that takes on consideration we would need to draft a QB next season. I am not convinced at this point we would have to.

We don't have one now. The gimmick/experiment was fun, but it failed. Thigpen is horrible in clutch situations, and it's time to move on.



Do you ever stop to consider why we went to the spread this season? Is it because of Thigpen? Or was it because our offensive line was like swiss cheese and the only way to keep Thigpen or any other QB from getting their head's knocked off was to give those extra steps? I can't believe you bought into that stupid Herm Edwards who said they did it because Thigpen was more comfortable in the spread. If Thigpen was more comfortable in the spread it is because he had that extra 6 yards to prepare before getting his clock cleaned.

O-line argument isn't valid when it comes to drafting. You don't take linemen at third overall. Position and value, Pioli understands this.




Pioli has never taken a QB that high in the draft. I don't see him doing it now. It is too risky and expensive.

Pioli has never been in a position to take a QB that high. Until now.

Three7s
02-14-2009, 07:22 PM
Nope. Bad argument. Either one of these guys are better than anything you're gonna' see next year, and using a low value position like linemen to justify being cautious doesn't cut it.
Also, and get in your skull, college QB's running in the spread are not going to be recruited to the Chiefs.
So all you Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy fans?
Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

The Chiefs under Haley will be running a pro-style offense. Thigpen and the Pistol are out; get used to it.
I'm not saying Tyler won't be around, but his game is what will be asked to improve, not the O-Coord trying to make chicken salad from chicken ****.

20 years of Dudley Do-Wrong have created an extremely cautious fan base. 20 years of doing it wrong are about to be broken, eradicated, and wiped from the face of Arrowhead Stadium forever. For those who wanted Carl gone, don't cry when his ways and means go with him.
Are you kidding me? Have you not paid attention to a single thing the last 2 seasons? The line makes or breaks a team! I hate it when people use the term "low value" when referring to the lines when it's just as important as any other position.

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 07:25 PM
Are you kidding me? Have you not paid attention to a single thing the last 2 seasons? The line makes or breaks a team! I hate it when people use the term "low value" when referring to the lines when it's just as important as any other position.

You don't take linemen at 3rd overall, and you NEVER draft for need.

chiefsfreak4life
02-14-2009, 07:34 PM
I've just been posting here for about a month and one of my thoughts has been that everyone is pretty knowlegeble and there didn't seem to be really any dorks here. I think DeathCarl Satan seems to be the exception....................................

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 07:37 PM
I've just been posting here for about a month and one of my thoughts has been that everyone is pretty knowlegeble and there didn't seem to be really any dorks here. I think DeathCarl Satan seems to be the exception....................................

DCS has been increasing his football knowledge due to the fact that the EPIC suck of the Chiefs have forced him to become a scout in his spare time, as well as learning more about the draft than he EVER wanted to know.

hometeam
02-14-2009, 07:58 PM
The time is now. We will more than likely not have another chance at this.

I'm preferential to Sanchez, but I won't balk at Stafford.



No thanks.

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 08:01 PM
No thanks.

Winning Championships like the majority of franchises who are smart enough to value the QB position, and who develop franchise QB's?

Yes Thanks! And often.

brish
02-14-2009, 08:08 PM
Taking a look at the last couple of seasons I couldn't disagree more with you.. A solid line on either side of the ball is a must! It doesn't matter who you put behind center, if he gets knocked the f*ck out everytime he gets the ball snapped to him.

Furthermore it's very hard to make it far in the playoffs without a solid defense. And before you use the Cardinals as an example, their D stepped up in the end.

If we end up drafting a QB in the first round I will be a little dissapointed, and I would hate to be that guy. he will be behind an O-line that hasn't protected the QB in the last 2-3 seasons, and he most likely won't have LJ to hand the ball off to. To make it worse, his defence was ranked 29-30th? in the league so he might be playing catch-up the entire season.

Don't get me wrong I expect huge progress next year, but the situation is not ideal for drafting a new QB to compete for the starting job.

If we had a chance at a really STAR QB then I might take him, and sit him until we had an O-line that could protect him, and a running game to help him out. Im just not under the impression that Stafford / Sanchez are those guys. If im wrong and we get one of them, then all the better! :)
:bananen_smilies046:

Hayvern
02-14-2009, 08:08 PM
Winning Championships like the majority of franchises who are smart enough to value the QB position, and who develop franchise QB's?

Yes Thanks! And often.

Seriously, name ONE developed franchise quarterback?

Mannings? No, Rothlesberger? No, Warner? No.

Better yet, tell me what it is to be a developed franchise quarterback?

I still would like to see what Thigpen would have had to have done to be considered a success for you people. It is laughable. A first year quarterback puts up better numbers in his first year than just about any other successful starting quarterback in the league and somehow he is considered to be a loss.

Is this because the guy started as a third stringer? Is it because he struggled when thrown into fire the first day without being prepped for it? What is it that makes you think that any first year college quarterback can be better than Thigpen at this point? Is it because he only one two games this season? Did he not put up enough points for you? Did he not have a high enough QB rating? Did he not inspire the team enough to play better? What exactly would you rather have seen from him?

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 08:16 PM
Taking a look at the last couple of seasons I couldn't disagree more with you.. A solid line on either side of the ball is a must! It doesn't matter who you put behind center, if he gets knocked the f*ck out everytime he gets the ball snapped to him.

Furthermore it's very hard to make it far in the playoffs without a solid defense. And before you use the Cardinals as an example, their D stepped up in the end.

If we end up drafting a QB in the first round I will be a little dissapointed, and I would hate to be that guy. he will be behind an O-line that hasn't protected the QB in the last 2-3 seasons, and he most likely won't have LJ to hand the ball off to. To make it worse, his defence was ranked 29-30th? in the league so he might be playing catch-up the entire season.

Don't get me wrong I expect huge progress next year, but the situation is not ideal for drafting a new QB to compete for the starting job.

If we had a chance at a really STAR QB then I might take him, and sit him until we had an O-line that could protect him, and a running game to help him out. Im just not under the impression that Stafford / Sanchez are those guys. If im wrong and we get one of them, then all the better! :)
:bananen_smilies046:

IF we draft either guy, don't expect to see much in the first year beyond some preseason time. It'll be clipboard duty for the n00b, but you have to start somewhere.
Both lines can and will be augmented through FA. They can also both improve under a better staff,
Do not discount both how god-awful our coaching roster was, and how a great staff can make players better. I've lived in AZ. for three years now, and I'm here to tell you that prior to Haley, Warner was an old has-been, and Fitz was good but nowhere NEAR great.
That 's what great coaches can do, and that's what they're supposed to do.
As for RB's, Pioli as a GM knows good and well that you DON'T pay those guys big $$$$, because they are a grand a dozen.

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 08:18 PM
Seriously, name ONE developed franchise quarterback?

Mannings? No, Rothlesberger? No, Warner? No.

Better yet, tell me what it is to be a developed franchise quarterback?

I still would like to see what Thigpen would have had to have done to be considered a success for you people. It is laughable. A first year quarterback puts up better numbers in his first year than just about any other successful starting quarterback in the league and somehow he is considered to be a loss.

Is this because the guy started as a third stringer? Is it because he struggled when thrown into fire the first day without being prepped for it? What is it that makes you think that any first year college quarterback can be better than Thigpen at this point? Is it because he only one two games this season? Did he not put up enough points for you? Did he not have a high enough QB rating? Did he not inspire the team enough to play better? What exactly would you rather have seen from him?

John Elway and Bret Favre. That's TWO!:D

And it's because the Pistol is not a viable offense for a Championship Caliber team, and because Thigpen is crap taking snaps from under center.

Let go the gimmicks, and let's get real.

For a change.

Hayvern
02-14-2009, 08:38 PM
John Elway and Bret Favre. That's TWO!:D

And it's because the Pistol is not a viable offense for a Championship Caliber team, and because Thigpen is crap taking snaps from under center.

Let go the gimmicks, and let's get real.

For a change.

So your main knock on Thigpen is that he played in a gimmick offense in the NFL.

Again, you seem unable to grasp that the reason we had to use the Pistol offense was because we had no offensive line. What part of that is so hard to understand? Why do you think colleges use this type of offense? If your line cannot protect the QB, open holes for your RBs, then there is no way, Pistol or normal offense that you can remotely be considered a Championship Caliber Team.

That is why you have to go after the best offensive lineman in the draft, and Sanchez is framed by two very good ones.


Simply put, it would be flat out stupid to take a QB at the third pick and then sit on him for two years while you put the rest of the team in around him. With the salary that any player picked third overal is going to demand, you have to have someone at that pick who can walk in and play today. Considering the current make up of this team, that guy is not Sanchez.

That is why we will not take Sanchez at the third pick. He will cost too much for what he will be able to do behind this team. Crabtree would be a better choice if we cannot get Andre or Jason Smith.

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 08:40 PM
You build your offense around your QB. Thigpen is NOT that guy.

And you do NOT take receivers at third overall!

Hayvern
02-14-2009, 08:46 PM
You build your offense around your QB. Thigpen is NOT that guy.

And you do NOT take receivers at third overall!

I agree you build around a QB, once you have the basics that make up a team. How do you know you have the right guy if he is lying on his *** at the end of every play?

I guarantee, if we took Sanchez and we put him behind this line, we will still be talking about who we can get at QB next year.

texaschief
02-14-2009, 09:06 PM
This is why you are wrong.

I suggest reading the whole thread... but I'll refer you to post #113 and later.

Vandelay
02-14-2009, 10:19 PM
You build your offense around your QB. Thigpen is NOT that guy.

And you do NOT take receivers at third overall!
If sanchez gets drafted by the Chiefs, and if he ended next season with the exact same numbers as Thigpen did last season, everyone would think Sanchez was the second coming. Thigpen seems to get penalized for being a low draft pick. The guy did great for having to play behind a god awful O-line. Give him some protection, and he will be fine. FIRST ROUND PICK, OFFENSIVE LINE.

Three7s
02-14-2009, 10:40 PM
Man Darth, I think you've been listening to Kietzman a bit too much. You and him sound almost exactly alike and he's usually wrong!

Coach
02-14-2009, 10:44 PM
If sanchez gets drafted by the Chiefs, and if he ended next season with the exact same numbers as Thigpen did last season, everyone would think Sanchez was the second coming. Thigpen seems to get penalized for being a low draft pick. The guy did great for having to play behind a god awful O-line. Give him some protection, and he will be fine. FIRST ROUND PICK, OFFENSIVE LINE.

Excellent point. I seem to remember Huard and Croyle looking like a monkey f'in a football last year when they played. Prior to Thigpen, this team looked worse than the Lions last year.

Hayvern
02-14-2009, 11:10 PM
If sanchez gets drafted by the Chiefs, and if he ended next season with the exact same numbers as Thigpen did last season, everyone would think Sanchez was the second coming. Thigpen seems to get penalized for being a low draft pick. The guy did great for having to play behind a god awful O-line. Give him some protection, and he will be fine. FIRST ROUND PICK, OFFENSIVE LINE.

This has been my point exactly. If this had been a first round draft pick putting up these numbers everyone would have been clamouring about how we had the next coming of Joe Montana or something.

But since this was a third string guy that we claimed off waivers, and had to play under a non-standard offense, then he gets no respect.

I don't care who you are, if you can put up Thigpen's numbers in the NFL, you have something going for you. Not everyone can do it. I mean, look at Trent Edwards, Matt Lienert, Matt Ryan, Marc Bulger. Thigpen held his own with any of those "Franchise" level QBs on arguably one of the worse teams of the season.

OPLookn
02-14-2009, 11:38 PM
You build your offense around your QB. Thigpen is NOT that guy.

And you do NOT take receivers at third overall!

You're contradicting yourself. You say you don't take what you need, so I can only take from that you mean you draft the best player regardless of position. Crabtree is the best at that point because more than a couple of teams want him. At that point it gives you all kinds of options....

Darth CarlSatan
02-14-2009, 11:54 PM
The problem, is that we've got 30+years as a fan base of a franchise that has been, in terms of proper building for consistent victory, an absolute textbook case in WRONG.

In fact, if the post-71 era of Steadman, and the ENTIRE era of CP were an inanimate object? They would be a bright, flashing neon sign that said:


"ERROR"

"ERROR"

"ERROR"

Prior to getting schooled on the NFL properly( and through many harsh debates that would get both parties banned from here in a matter of minutes ), I was a poor, ignorant 90's rehash fan. I wanted to rebuild the 90's, and I preached defense to the point of illogical absurdity.
After many harsh beatdowns, I finally saw the light and the truth:

It All Starts With Your Team Leader, And That Person Is Your Quarterback.

The statistics regarding Super Bowls won by teams with franchise quarterbacks, to teams without is staggering.
Gannon's and Warner's are anomalies in the NFL. People don't seem to understand that hoping for one of THOSE guys to show up, or to hope for the best, or to try and "make do", IS THE BIGGEST RISK OF ALL! Letting one Todd Blackledge devalue the position out of fear was one of the dumbest things that this franchise ever let happen!
And in my opinion, the 1997 team the Chiefs fielded personified EVERYTHING that is wrong about building all aspects on your team right, but not having that same attention to detail when it comes to your Quarterback.

Denver had that particular detail shored up in 1997. Case closed.


Next years QB class is comprised of spread quarterbacks. Pro teams hell-bent on winning Championships will NOT be running the spread.

This year is a great draft class for offense. Next year has a great defensive class coming out.


I can understand an aversion to Stafford. He's looked pretty unimpressive in the televised games I've seen this year. But when you start studying reel, you see that there IS a skill-set there that can be developed. It WILL take longer to make him great, but he DOES have the tools to begin the process.

Sanchez is, quite simply, the most amazing college QB I've seen lead a team and work the field in years. When you're going to draft a kid who will be holding a clipboard for a year, you're not looking at time spent on the field or W/L records.

Here's the breakdown on Mark. Go to you tube and watch the film. Study it carefully, and you'll see the follwing:

1) Mechanics. Sanchez's form, technique, and execution are damned-near flawless. And they are consistent in their flawlessness.

2) Decision-making. Mark has shown time and again that when a play breaks down, or the pocket collapses, he's going to turn it in to positive yardage. There is NO QUITTING ON THE PLAY with Mark Sanchez.

3) Letting it go, and playing it smart. When the times come that the play can't be made, Mark identifies it quickly, does the right thing and get's rid of the ball so that no yardage is lost. There's no "curling up and dying" here.

4) Athleticism. If and when Mark has to run, he does it VERY well. Watch the way he threaded and timed his run through the line to the end-zone during his rushing TD in the Rose Bowl; it was a thing of beauty.

5) Speed. The guy is just quick, and possibly the fastest QB off a snap I've ever seen.

And number 6) Passes. Mark can throw the rocket or the soft-touch float with equal skill and precision. His timing with his receivers borders on Divine Intervention. The most impressive pass I ever saw of his, was a 30-yard, perfectly placed, right over the right shoulder of his receiver as the receiver raced to the northwest pylon without even looking back once; it went right over his shoulder and in to his waiting hands.
I thought there was no way I'd see a completion like that again. I was wrong. That pass, like every great thing I've seen Mark Sanchez do, is not voodoo or luck; it's business as usual.

And there it is.

jap1
02-15-2009, 12:02 AM
Nice to see you back DCS. But I respectfully disagree with you.

You said you build your offense around a QB. I would argue that we dont need to build our offense. We need to build a defense.

I want to know your argument against Curry. He is the most athletic LB and is definitely a playmaker. If you argue you need to take the BPA, then many people have him even with or not too far behind Crabtree. LB is definitely a need.

I will argue that it is equally important to have a QB for the defense. Someone to motivate them, call out coverages and that will be there to make that goalline tackle. DJ has not become that person.

A good QB isnt going to help you hold the lead in the 4th quarter, which was one of our biggest problems last year. If you have a lead at the end, you want to run the clock. It is very difficult to do that when the QB has the ball. The way you hold a lead is with a good OL to run and a good D to hold the opposing offense.

As far as OL, I dont think it is a waste. If you look at a lot of the playoff teams, they have one thing in common: great offensive lines. Not all of them have GREAT QBs. Ravens, Titans, Dolphins, Vikings, Falcons (Ryan isnt great yet), and Patriots (Cassel has yet to prove to me he can do it on his own) all have great OLs and average to slightly above average QBs and great Defenses. I think Thiggy is average to above average. We make our Defense great, and our OL equal to what it was in the Vermeil days, and my grandma could sit back there and drop balls in to TG and DBowe.

I will agree that Sanchez is probably has one of the better skill sets of young QBs. But I dont think he will be able to get it done without a line to protect him. If we want to bench him, then we are basically saying we dont want to be competitive next year because we want to get an OL next offseason.

Darth CarlSatan
02-15-2009, 12:15 AM
Nice to see you back DCS. But I respectfully disagree with you.

I want to know your argument against Curry. He is the most athletic LB and is definitely a playmaker. If you argue you need to take the BPA, then many people have him even with or not too far behind Crabtree. LB is definitely a need.

I will argue that it is equally important to have a QB for the defense. Someone to motivate them, call out coverages and that will be there to make that goalline tackle. DJ has not become that person.

A good QB isnt going to help you hold the lead in the 4th quarter, which was one of our biggest problems last year. If you have a lead at the end, you want to run the clock. It is very difficult to do that when the QB has the ball. The way you hold a lead is with a good OL to run and a good D to hold the opposing offense.

As far as OL, I dont think it is a waste. If you look at a lot of the playoff teams, they have one thing in common: great offensive lines. Not all of them have GREAT QBs. Ravens, Titans, Dolphins, Vikings, Falcons (Ryan isnt great yet), and Patriots (Cassel has yet to prove to me he can do it on his own) all have great OLs and average to slightly above average QBs and great Defenses. I think Thiggy is average to above average. We make our Defense great, and our OL equal to what it was in the Vermeil days, and my grandma could sit back there and drop balls in to TG and DBowe.

I have no argument against Curry. If we took him 3rd overall I wouldn't hold it against Curry, and I would wish him nothing but the best.

I'd question the mental capacity of Pioli and Haley though.
The question is, "what kind of franchise do we want to be"?
Do you want to win Titles? I do. And it all starts with your team leader, the Quarterback.
There are NO shortcuts. Consistent winners don't "patch things up". Consistent winners don't "make do".

There is no way in hell Haley is going to run a spread, pistol, or some other quasi-scheme. We're going to start playing professional offense again. And to do so, we're going to need a QB that can take snaps from under Center, and who has experience working in a pro-style system.

Now, if you want to say that Stafford and Sanchez don't fit your idealized "cup of tea" in that regard, then okay.
But I would encourage you to watch film of both guys and hold your final decisions until doing so.

kcmostwanted
02-15-2009, 12:32 AM
I have no argument against Curry. If we took him 3rd overall I wouldn't hold it against Curry, and I would wish him nothing but the best.

I'd question the mental capacity of Pioli and Haley though.
The question is, "what kind of franchise do we want to be"?
Do you want to win Titles? I do. And it all starts with your team leader, the Quarterback.
There are NO shortcuts. Consistent winners don't "patch things up". Consistent winners don't "make do".

There is no way in hell Haley is going to run a spread, pistol, or some other quasi-scheme. We're going to start playing professional offense again. And to do so, we're going to need a QB that can take snaps from under Center, and who has experience working in a pro-style system.

Now, if you want to say that Stafford and Sanchez don't fit your idealized "cup of tea" in that regard, then okay.
But I would encourage you to watch film of both guys and hold your final decisions until doing so.

Agreed!!

I think QB is the way to go w/ the #3 pick. Some people on this site think that Tyler is God or something.. they think that he's the answer when he's really just a band aid.

Grabbing a LB at #3 will be too much of a reach unless he were the next Brian Urlacher or Ray Lewis.. I wouldn't completely hate the LB pick but finding a good OLB would be easier than finding a franchise QB.

Considering how deep this draft is w/ OL I think we can get a quality tackle in the 2nd Round and a Center in the 3rd.

Although I would kick someone in the head this year if we drafted another TE... we've drafted like 8 tight ends in the last 3 years

Chiefster
02-15-2009, 12:36 AM
I've just been posting here for about a month and one of my thoughts has been that everyone is pretty knowlegeble and there didn't seem to be really any dorks here. I think DeathCarl Satan seems to be the exception....................................


No one here is without exception a "dork", and this is not Jr. high.

texaschief
02-15-2009, 12:38 AM
I would at least be willing to listen to an argument for Stafford, but Sanchez isn't even worth a top 10 pick... let alone a top 3.

You referenced Elway. Look how long it took Elway to get to the Super Bowl. It took until his last two seasons to get there. You referencing Elway is a counterintuitive in your argument. By using Elway, you're basically saying that you're ok with waiting 15 years until the team has enough pieces around our QB to win a Super Bowl. But if you look at, say a Ben Roethlisberger, who's team was already built when he stepped in to be the final piece his rookie season, you see what everyone else is trying to say.

If you go out and drop $2 million on a car at Barrett-Jackson, are you going to bring it home to park it in your driveway, unprotected? Would that $2 million car be enough to complete the best collection of cars owned by one owner if it's the only car in the collection? In order for your investment to be successful, you need to surround it with complimentary pieces and provide protection. Right now, the Chiefs have a partly built garage and have just recently began a collection of complimentary pieces. Right now, the investment the Chiefs have put into their team, just isn't ready for a top flight purchase. ESPECIALLY when they might already have a guy who could potentially fill that role.

For the reasons that you like Sanchez, I like Leinart. Leinart won a heisman trophy and a national championship. We've seen what he can do with a complete team around him. The Cardinals of 2006 (where Leinart started 11 games) were not the Cardinals of this season. If its a franchise QB you want to get THIS season, trade a conditional 1st-3rd round 2010 pick to the Cards and get him. Then, let him sit for at least half the season to let him develop a little more and to keep his price low. Whatever we have to trade to get Leinart, it wouldn't be NEARLY as much as a #3 pick. I think Leinart is BY FAR the better QB between the two USC QBs.

Darth CarlSatan
02-15-2009, 12:45 AM
Agreed!!

I think QB is the way to go w/ the #3 pick. Some people on this site think that Tyler is God or something.. they think that he's the answer when he's really just a band aid.

Grabbing a LB at #3 will be too much of a reach unless he were the next Brian Urlacher or Ray Lewis.. I wouldn't completely hate the LB pick but finding a good OLB would be easier than finding a franchise QB.

Considering how deep this draft is w/ OL I think we can get a quality tackle in the 2nd Round and a Center in the 3rd.

Although I would kick someone in the head this year if we drafted another TE... we've drafted like 8 tight ends in the last 3 years

Excellent, exactly, and thank you.

If we take a QB off the top, look to see the Right Tackle come shortly after it; that position becomes priority number two.

Understand this( and I believe you do ); we're not drafting to make a run in 09'. And quite frankly, we'll probably suck, though to a lesser degree than 08'.

Next year will provide an EXCELLENT defensive draft class, and don't forget that there IS this other option called "Free Agency" as well.

I'm pretty sure Pioli "get's it", and will do the right thing in New York this year.

And don't forget; Clark Hunt has had but ONE "request" when it comes to the roster since his father's passing:

"I want to develop a franchise quarterback".

After 30 years of dumbassery, the Kansas City Chiefs are FINALLY on their way. Hallelujah!

texaschief
02-15-2009, 12:47 AM
What proof is there that Thigpen ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT run a regular NFL style offense? If the Chiefs hadn't identified Thigpen in the draft, he'd probably be the Vikings starter right now. The Vikes LOVED Thigpen and thought they could slip him through waivers and sign him to the practice squad.

If you want to base your evaluations of Tyler Thigpen's ability to run a "normal" NFL offense on his ONE game in week 3 against Atlanta, during his first start EVER in the league and while the O-line had ZERO continuity, then I'd have to "question YOUR mental capacity."

Chiefster
02-15-2009, 12:56 AM
I love lively debate, and for the most part respectful. But, I too, must join with those who dissent. We need to build our O-line, and I think texaschief has displayed that point of view beautifully.

honda522
02-15-2009, 01:04 AM
I am not very high on Sanchez. He only started 1 year. I saw play out Thigpen for the next year and get McCoy or Bradford. I think they are more worth than Sanchez or Stafford.

Darth CarlSatan
02-15-2009, 01:07 AM
I would at least be willing to listen to an argument for Stafford, but Sanchez isn't even worth a top 10 pick... let alone a top 3.

You referenced Elway. Look how long it took Elway to get to the Super Bowl. It took until his last two seasons to get there. You referencing Elway is a counterintuitive in your argument. By using Elway, you're basically saying that you're ok with waiting 15 years until the team has enough pieces around our QB to win a Super Bowl. But if you look at, say a Ben Roethlisberger, who's team was already built when he stepped in to be the final piece his rookie season, you see what everyone else is trying to say.

If you go out and drop $2 million on a car at Barrett-Jackson, are you going to bring it home to park it in your driveway, unprotected? Would that $2 million car be enough to complete the best collection of cars owned by one owner if it's the only car in the collection? In order for your investment to be successful, you need to surround it with complimentary pieces and provide protection. Right now, the Chiefs have a partly built garage and have just recently began a collection of complimentary pieces. Right now, the investment the Chiefs have put into their team, just isn't ready for a top flight purchase. ESPECIALLY when they might already have a guy who could potentially fill that role.

For the reasons that you like Sanchez, I like Leinart. Leinart won a heisman trophy and a national championship. We've seen what he can do with a complete team around him. The Cardinals of 2006 (where Leinart started 11 games) were not the Cardinals of this season. If its a franchise QB you want to get THIS season, trade a conditional 1st-3rd round 2010 pick to the Cards and get him. Then, let him sit for at least half the season to let him develop a little more and to keep his price low. Whatever we have to trade to get Leinart, it wouldn't be NEARLY as much as a #3 pick. I think Leinart is BY FAR the better QB between the two USC QBs.

With all due respect, when it comes to Matt Lienart you are out of your f'n mind. Tebow and Bradford won Heisman's too. And you know what they were told? "Go back to school, because you will NOT be ranked first round".
Tebow can say "I love Florida", Bradford can say "I want another shot at a Title", but I KNOW better.
And you should too.

Elway was surrounded by incomplete garbage for YEARS. Thus, his long journey to Super Bowl victory.

Value, position, and pecking order; you KNOW these things!
When you have a top 5 pick you have to consider what you pick otherwise you're going to make a guy the highest paid player in the league at his position by a huge degree and you'll mess your cap all up.

I'm done debating. There's a wrong way, and there's a right way to create and develop a football team at the professional level.
Some guys will go round and round on this, determined to make you see the light.

I am not one of them. I leave you to your own devices.

Darth CarlSatan
02-15-2009, 01:10 AM
No one here is without exception a "dork", and this is not Jr. high.

And comments such as his will be met with NO mercy, banning of DCS or not. This ain't my only house, and I roll the way I roll.

texaschief
02-15-2009, 01:11 AM
I am not very high on Sanchez. He only started 1 year. I saw play out Thigpen for the next year and get McCoy or Bradford. I think they are more worth than Sanchez or Stafford.

I will say this. I would take Stafford over Sanchez. I would take Bradford over Sanchez. But, I would take Sanchez over McCoy... and I'm a HUGE TEXAS fan. I think Bradford has the talent and capabilities to run a regular offense. He just happens to be in a spread right now. I don't think Bradford's talents are based on the system he's in. I highly doubt McCoy will be worth a 1st round pick.

I've said it before. Jevan Snead is going to be a first round pick if he comes out early next season. That's the guy the Chiefs should target. 6'4 225 with a cannon and highly mobile while being groomed in a pro style set... he's going to be REALLY good.

Chiefster
02-15-2009, 01:14 AM
And comments such as his will be met with NO mercy, banning of DCS or not. This ain't my only house, and I roll the way I roll.

Is this how you really want to play this out? I was defending you BTW. As far as your puny little threat about leaving the house goes, you can leave the same way you came and not be missed.

Chiefster
02-15-2009, 01:15 AM
With all due respect, when it comes to Matt Lienart you are out of your f'n mind. Tebow and Bradford won Heisman's too. And you know what they were told? "Go back to school, because you will NOT be ranked first round".
Tebow can say "I love Florida", Bradford can say "I want another shot at a Title", but I KNOW better.
And you should too.

Elway was surrounded by incomplete garbage for YEARS. Thus, his long journey to Super Bowl victory.

Value, position, and pecking order; you KNOW these things!
When you have a top 5 pick you have to consider what you pick otherwise you're going to make a guy the highest paid player in the league at his position by a huge degree and you'll mess your cap all up.

I'm done debating. There's a wrong way, and there's a right way to create and develop a football team at the professional level.
Some guys will go round and round on this, determined to make you see the light.

I am not one of them. I leave you to your own devices.

I think you've just made everyone's point.

Darth CarlSatan
02-15-2009, 01:22 AM
I think you've just made everyone's point.

I think you just purposely missed the point entirely, and I don't require your defense, thank you very much.

Don't get stupid with me.

Chiefster
02-15-2009, 01:29 AM
I think you just purposely missed the point entirely, and I don't require your defense, thank you very much.

Don't get stupid with me.

I'm not trying to get stupid with you, and if your trying to get banned I have no problem accommodating you, and as far as requiring my defense goes: that's what I do in order to enforce board board rules to maintain respect among it's members. I really don't care if you require anything from me or not.

hermhater
02-15-2009, 01:36 AM
High Darth.

Can I be your favorite poster before you get banned?

Three7s
02-15-2009, 01:39 AM
Darth, I know that you really want the Chiefs to draft a QB, but as you can see most of us disagree with you. There's no point in trying to convert anyone since we don't really have a say in who the Chiefs draft either way. There's no reason to get all worked up because you don't agree with people or that they don't agree with you.

texaschief
02-15-2009, 01:41 AM
With all due respect, when it comes to Matt Lienart you are out of your f'n mind. Tebow and Bradford won Heisman's too. And you know what they were told? "Go back to school, because you will NOT be ranked first round".
Tebow can say "I love Florida", Bradford can say "I want another shot at a Title", but I KNOW better.
And you should too.

How can you say Lienart isn't a franchise QB, but Sanchez is? Lienart isn't Tebow. He's not a product of the system and expected to be playing another position in the NFL. I don't want Bradford and I was railing against him as well when everyone thought he was coming out. He's not worth a top 10 pick either.

Value, position, and pecking order; you KNOW these things!
When you have a top 5 pick you have to consider what you pick otherwise you're going to make a guy the highest paid player in the league at his position by a huge degree and you'll mess your cap all up.

EXACTLY!!!! Drafting a player who's position history shows a 63% bust rate is a RECKLESS gamble. How bad do you think it'll mess the cap up if we're paying a waterboy (busted QB) more than any other player in the league?



I know that when you have a top 5 pick, you don't take a player who has little history, plays a position who's history shows a 63% bust rate to replace a player who could very well play to his equal. When you have a top 5 pick... you take the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE... that sure as hell won't be Sanchez at #3. You're probably going to be looking at a LT or OLB. If you miss at #3, you're going to be looking for a new job.

LT is going to be the safest pick because if a LT busts, you can move him and make him play another position. Then, at least he'd still be a contributing member of the team. I'd rather have the highest paid guard or RT in the league putting some strain on our cap than the highest paid player in the league being a clipboard holder crippling the team with his huge cap number.

If we draft a QB and he busts, we're going to be one of THE LAST teams to do so because of the impending "rookie cap" coming in the next year or so. If we bust on a QB, that will put us at a distinct competitive disadvantage which could potentially give this team the death penalty for the next decade.

To explain what I'm saying a little further, consider this; the Chiefs take a QB #3 this season and he turns out to be what percentages say he will, which 63% says he'll bust. We get stuck with an albatross of a contract for let's just say the next four years. A #3 QB will take up a HUGE chunk of our cap space. Then, in 2010 or 2011, a team takes a QB #3 and HE busts. We're not going to be in the same boat. If the NFL follows the NBA model or the MLB "slotted money" system, then their busted QB will cost that team a fraction of what our busted QB will. That will KILL this franchise.

Think about the state of this franchise right now. The fan base won't show up to games as it is. If they field a consistent dog for the next 5 seasons and bust on another franchise QB during the current state of the economy, you could very easily see a scenario that could see Hunt selling the team to someone who wants to move to LA or some other BIG market who will support it. Arrowhead is getting a facelift, but at some point, the City is going to have to replace the 50 year old stadium. I just can't see the City approving a plan to build a new stadium for a franchise that hasn't done anything to help itself to get to a Super Bowl in 60 years. Why do you think there's a whole new management team in place this year? There are some HUGE decisions to be made this off season and one enormous misstep like drafting a bad QB #3 could literally bring this whole house of cards, straight to the ground.

Hayvern
02-15-2009, 01:42 AM
With all due respect, when it comes to Matt Lienart you are out of your f'n mind. Tebow and Bradford won Heisman's too. And you know what they were told? "Go back to school, because you will NOT be ranked first round".
Tebow can say "I love Florida", Bradford can say "I want another shot at a Title", but I KNOW better.
And you should too.

Elway was surrounded by incomplete garbage for YEARS. Thus, his long journey to Super Bowl victory.

Value, position, and pecking order; you KNOW these things!
When you have a top 5 pick you have to consider what you pick otherwise you're going to make a guy the highest paid player in the league at his position by a huge degree and you'll mess your cap all up.

I'm done debating. There's a wrong way, and there's a right way to create and develop a football team at the professional level.
Some guys will go round and round on this, determined to make you see the light.

I am not one of them. I leave you to your own devices.

Just remember, if the Chiefs do not take a QB at number three, you should not feel surprised. I am of the mindset that we will likely take Curry.

I am also one of those guys who believes it is cheaper to go out and trade or sign a free agent QB as opposed to taking one that high in the draft.

Chiefster
02-15-2009, 02:05 AM
Darth, I know that you really want the Chiefs to draft a QB, but as you can see most of us disagree with you. There's no point in trying to convert anyone since we don't really have a say in who the Chiefs draft either way. There's no reason to get all worked up because you don't agree with people or that they don't agree with you.


Agreed, and rep!

We all are intitled to our various oppinions, DCS included, all we ask is that when members disagree then do so respectfully.

hermhater
02-15-2009, 02:15 AM
We have respect now?

Chiefster
02-15-2009, 02:17 AM
We have respect now?


Well that's always been the plan, but unfortunately it hasn't always worked out that way.

honda522
02-15-2009, 02:29 AM
I will say this. I would take Stafford over Sanchez. I would take Bradford over Sanchez. But, I would take Sanchez over McCoy... and I'm a HUGE TEXAS fan. I think Bradford has the talent and capabilities to run a regular offense. He just happens to be in a spread right now. I don't think Bradford's talents are based on the system he's in. I highly doubt McCoy will be worth a 1st round pick.

I've said it before. Jevan Snead is going to be a first round pick if he comes out early next season. That's the guy the Chiefs should target. 6'4 225 with a cannon and highly mobile while being groomed in a pro style set... he's going to be REALLY good.
Havn't really heard of him Can he scramble?

Bike
02-15-2009, 02:31 AM
I know that when you have a top 5 pick, you don't take a player who has little history, plays a position who's history shows a 63% bust rate to replace a player who could very well play to his equal. When you have a top 5 pick... you take the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE... that sure as hell won't be Sanchez at #3. You're probably going to be looking at a LT or OLB. If you miss at #3, you're going to be looking for a new job.

LT is going to be the safest pick because if a LT busts, you can move him and make him play another position. Then, at least he'd still be a contributing member of the team. I'd rather have the highest paid guard or RT in the league putting some strain on our cap than the highest paid player in the league being a clipboard holder crippling the team with his huge cap number.

If we draft a QB and he busts, we're going to be one of THE LAST teams to do so because of the impending "rookie cap" coming in the next year or so. If we bust on a QB, that will put us at a distinct competitive disadvantage which could potentially give this team the death penalty for the next decade.

To explain what I'm saying a little further, consider this; the Chiefs take a QB #3 this season and he turns out to be what percentages say he will, which 63% says he'll bust. We get stuck with an albatross of a contract for let's just say the next four years. A #3 QB will take up a HUGE chunk of our cap space. Then, in 2010 or 2011, a team takes a QB #3 and HE busts. We're not going to be in the same boat. If the NFL follows the NBA model or the MLB "slotted money" system, then their busted QB will cost that team a fraction of what our busted QB will. That will KILL this franchise.

Think about the state of this franchise right now. The fan base won't show up to games as it is. If they field a consistent dog for the next 5 seasons and bust on another franchise QB during the current state of the economy, you could very easily see a scenario that could see Hunt selling the team to someone who wants to move to LA or some other BIG market who will support it. Arrowhead is getting a facelift, but at some point, the City is going to have to replace the 50 year old stadium. I just can't see the City approving a plan to build a new stadium for a franchise that hasn't done anything to help itself to get to a Super Bowl in 60 years. Why do you think there's a whole new management team in place this year? There are some HUGE decisions to be made this off season and one enormous misstep like drafting a bad QB #3 could literally bring this whole house of cards, straight to the ground.
Nice post TC. I wish the Chiefs had the luxury of being able to snag a qb with our 3rd pick. But we don't. Its gonna take some heavy machinery and and a large number of heavy equipment operators to dig us out of this huge hole prior management left us in...

hermhater
02-15-2009, 02:48 AM
Where'd Darth go?

I so wanted to get to know him.

texaschief
02-15-2009, 03:07 AM
Where'd Darth go?

I so wanted to get to know him.

It's funny how "debate" fizzles once I jump in....

Was it something I said? I sure hope so. :sign0151:

hermhater
02-15-2009, 03:54 AM
Can't we get that Maulauagaua guy?

texaschief
02-15-2009, 04:09 AM
Can't we get that Maulauagaua guy?

Not worth the #3 pick. We're probably looking at Curry or a LT.

Sn@keIze
02-15-2009, 05:42 AM
The fact of us talking of drafting an offensive player 1st pick all around.. to be frank... is pissing me off..

Back to the original subject: "Forget DL"....

are you freakin kiddin me?...

We are ranked 31st in yds allowed on D. 393.2!

Lets see, what else am I forgeting....oh ya...the worst pass rush in NFL history!!!

windwalker
02-15-2009, 09:25 AM
And comments such as his will be met with NO mercy, banning of DCS or not. This ain't my only house, and I roll the way I roll.

And everywhere else he posts he is also a "Thigpen-Hater"

tornadospotter
02-15-2009, 11:05 AM
This has been a highly entertaining thread to read. Thank you darth for the laughs.:lol:

Ldub
02-15-2009, 11:12 AM
The fact of us talking of drafting an offensive player 1st pick all around.. to be frank... is pissing me off..

Back to the original subject: "Forget DL"....

are you freakin kiddin me?...

We are ranked 31st in yds allowed on D. 393.2!

Lets see, what else am I forgeting....oh ya...the worst pass rush in NFL history!!!

I agree, without good linemen (on both sides of the ball) the rest of the team cant funchion, no matter how much tallent they have. Why draft a QB? he will just get his *** handed to him every down, might as well keep Thigpen... atleast hes used to it =)

All that being sayed, I still think we should take Curry. There are some okay DE's, but we would get more bang for our buck with him and he can pass rush from the LB spot. Maybe we can fill our holes on the Dline with free agents... i dunno...

jmlamerson
02-15-2009, 01:09 PM
Can't we get that Maulauagaua guy?

I love Maualuga, and think he's an absolute playemaker, but he's a mid-1st rounder. And it never a good idea to pay $8M or so a year to a LB, which is what he'll demand as the #3 pick.

marloweopatchiefs
02-15-2009, 02:22 PM
guess i'll be ridculed. Don't go after sanchez or stafford we don't need a qB. They will go after CRABTREE in the first round.

marloweopatchiefs
02-15-2009, 02:24 PM
With all due respect, when it comes to Matt Lienart you are out of your f'n mind. Tebow and Bradford won Heisman's too. And you know what they were told? "Go back to school, because you will NOT be ranked first round".
Tebow can say "I love Florida", Bradford can say "I want another shot at a Title", but I KNOW better.
And you should too.

Elway was surrounded by incomplete garbage for YEARS. Thus, his long journey to Super Bowl victory.

Value, position, and pecking order; you KNOW these things!
When you have a top 5 pick you have to consider what you pick otherwise you're going to make a guy the highest paid player in the league at his position by a huge degree and you'll mess your cap all up.

I'm done debating. There's a wrong way, and there's a right way to create and develop a football team at the professional level.
Some guys will go round and round on this, determined to make you see the light.

I am not one of them. I leave you to your own devices.



CRABTREE CRABTREE CRABTREE CRABTREE

jmlamerson
02-15-2009, 02:35 PM
CRABTREE CRABTREE CRABTREE CRABTREE

Stop it, OK. The Chiefs aren't drafting f'n Crabtree in the 1st round. Has Pioli ever drafted a 1st round WR? No. Does our team have a whole lot more important positions to fill? Definitely.

Ldub
02-15-2009, 02:39 PM
CRABTREE CRABTREE CRABTREE CRABTREE

I laughed.
Good one.

If we draft Crablice i will be pissed...

Chief Tyler
02-15-2009, 02:41 PM
Anybody think its possible that we trade down to TB at 19 then ahead of SD, somewhere from 11 to 15? Maualuga is my favroite guy for the first round, and agreed a huge stretch at number 3, but teams like TB and Minn. are going to be in the hunt for a QB, SF has no reason to trade up, if we don't take Sanchez, he'll be there for them at 10 unless somebody else makes a move, but right now for me, a little double swap goodness to get us in that early teen slot would be my dream scenario. Forget Crabtree and Sanchez, and good linemen can be taken in the late first and second. Maualuga to KC in 09!

jmlamerson
02-15-2009, 02:47 PM
Anybody think its possible that we trade down to TB at 19 then ahead of SD, somewhere from 11 to 15? Maualuga is my favroite guy for the first round, and agreed a huge stretch at number 3, but teams like TB and Minn. are going to be in the hunt for a QB, SF has no reason to trade up, if we don't take Sanchez, he'll be there for them at 10 unless somebody else makes a move, but right now for me, a little double swap goodness to get us in that early teen slot would be my dream scenario. Forget Crabtree and Sanchez, and good linemen can be taken in the late first and second. Maualuga to KC in 09!

Why would TB do that, unless they were absolutely in love with Stafford or Sanchez and they drop past the Rams? And I don't think they are in love with either of them, at least not enough to trade up into the top 3. I think they stay put and draft Josh Freeman if they draft any QB in the 1st.

I think our only chance of getting Maualuga is by trading back into the 1st round ahead of the Chargers at 16, or be drafting him at #3. Because we're never going to find a team dumb enough to trade into the top 3.

Chiefster
02-15-2009, 03:17 PM
It's funny how "debate" fizzles once I jump in....

Was it something I said? I sure hope so. :sign0151:

:lol::lol::lol:

texaschief
02-15-2009, 03:44 PM
Wouldn't opinions change about a MLB or DE if we land a couple guys in free agency... which is quite possible? Until FA is over, talk about the draft or wanting to trade down in the draft is pointless because we don't know what Pioli is going to do with the 4th most money available to him. With the hiring of Gibbs, landing Vilma isn't out of the question.

Coach
02-15-2009, 04:52 PM
Anybody think its possible that we trade down to TB at 19 then ahead of SD, somewhere from 11 to 15? Maualuga is my favroite guy for the first round, and agreed a huge stretch at number 3, but teams like TB and Minn. are going to be in the hunt for a QB, SF has no reason to trade up, if we don't take Sanchez, he'll be there for them at 10 unless somebody else makes a move, but right now for me, a little double swap goodness to get us in that early teen slot would be my dream scenario. Forget Crabtree and Sanchez, and good linemen can be taken in the late first and second. Maualuga to KC in 09!


I think the Chiefs would trade down with anyone offering them a halfway decent offer. Shoot, I'd trade down into the 20's if we picked up a 2nd rd'er as compensation.

DT14PRIEST
02-15-2009, 07:47 PM
Stop it, OK. The Chiefs aren't drafting f'n Crabtree in the 1st round. Has Pioli ever drafted a 1st round WR? No. Does our team have a whole lot more important positions to fill? Definitely.

I don't believe we will draft Crabtree or any other skill position that early in the draft either but we really have no idea how Pioli and Haley will approach the draft after they evaluate the team. Saying that Pioli has drafted anyone is misleading since he technically hasn't drafted anyone yet. While he may have said it was a mutual decision in NE with him and Belichick lets not forget that its no longer that sitaution anymore and it has become a Haley/Pioli situation and I have no idea what eithers preference is when it comes to drafting players.

That being said, I believe they're football smart and will really evaluate this team from top to bottom and get this first pick right whether it be Curry or a monster LT or whether they trade down pending on how the draft plays out.

marloweopatchiefs
02-16-2009, 02:13 PM
Stop it, OK. The Chiefs aren't drafting f'n Crabtree in the 1st round. Has Pioli ever drafted a 1st round WR? No. Does our team have a whole lot more important positions to fill? Definitely.

Yes they will go After CRABTREE ...that's just your opinion and i have mine as well

Big Daddy Tek
02-17-2009, 03:00 AM
I think the Chiefs would trade down with anyone offering them a halfway decent offer. Shoot, I'd trade down into the 20's if we picked up a 2nd rd'er as compensation.

If we received a solid 1st rounder at 15-20 and then followed by two starters in the second, I would spontaniously combust after our third selection!

Bike
02-17-2009, 01:14 PM
Stop it, OK. The Chiefs aren't drafting f'n Crabtree in the 1st round. Has Pioli ever drafted a 1st round WR? No. Does our team have a whole lot more important positions to fill? Definitely.
Stop it, OK. The Chiefs could use an upgrade at every position on the field. If Crabtree is available who's to say that Pioli won't take him. You can throw Piolis draft history in the river. The buck stopped at Bilecheck in NE.
Piolis draft history starts NOW. That being said we could go any number of ways with our 1st pick. A new regime may want to begin with a new QB. Its not unheard of. Or a can't-miss WR like Crabtree. Of course we also need OL and defense. Pioli/Haley will be juggling:
OL: Monroe, Smith, Smith
QB: Stafford, Sanchez
D: Curry, Raji
WR: Crabtree
Of those, I do think the most unlikely will be Crabtree. If we really think we need a WR, maybe we get Heyward-Bey (6-3, 4.39) with our 2nd pick. But I highly doubt that, too. Also Crabtree could very easily be picked by St. Louis. Or not.
I have no idea what Pioli/Haley are gonna do. If it were me it would come down to OL or D. Since our D needs the most help, I would take Aaron Curry. And get Britton or Unger with our 2nd.

tornadospotter
02-17-2009, 01:22 PM
I am now on the Curry band wagon, he could be the next DT!

Bike
02-17-2009, 01:41 PM
I am now on the Curry band wagon, he could be the next DT!
Or Raji if we need to really go DT. Could be a stretch to pay him #3 dollars, but he is a beast!

jmlamerson
02-17-2009, 01:46 PM
Or Raji if we need to really go DT. Could be a stretch to pay him #3 dollars, but he is a beast!

I think if we go 3-4, we pick Raji - we won't have much of a choice. If we stay 4-3, we pick Curry/LT/QB.

Bike
02-17-2009, 01:54 PM
I think if we go 3-4, we pick Raji - we won't have much of a choice. If we stay 4-3, we pick Curry/LT/QB.
Hmmm. Looks like I won't even have to watch the draft. You seem to already know. Thanks!

tornadospotter
02-17-2009, 02:01 PM
I think if we go 3-4, we pick Raji - we won't have much of a choice. If we stay 4-3, we pick Curry/LT/QB.
I still do not think we need to draft a QB untill if at all late rds. There are some QB's that may make good or better NFL QB's that will not go till late.

jmlamerson
02-17-2009, 02:17 PM
I still do not think we need to draft a QB untill if at all late rds. There are some QB's that may make good or better NFL QB's that will not go till late.

I wasn't saying what we should do, just what I thought we would do.

I agree that it makes a lot more sense to pick Curry/Raji/Monroe with the 3rd overall and get a QB in the later rounds. But who knows what our new HC and GM want? Knowing they have a few years grace, they may want to take the time to develop their own QBOTF in Sanchez or Stafford.

jmlamerson
02-17-2009, 02:17 PM
Hmmm. Looks like I won't even have to watch the draft. You seem to already know. Thanks!

That's why I'm here.

You can always tune in, I guess, for the 2nd to 7th rounds.

hometeam
02-17-2009, 02:19 PM
Is this thread still going?

Oh well, in response to the OP.

We take Curry #3.. and Tom Brady in the 6th round!

tornadospotter
02-17-2009, 03:48 PM
I wasn't saying what we should do, just what I thought we would do.

I agree that it makes a lot more sense to pick Curry/Raji/Monroe with the 3rd overall and get a QB in the later rounds. But who knows what our new HC and GM want? Knowing they have a few years grace, they may want to take the time to develop their own QBOTF in Sanchez or Stafford.
I have very little if any grace to give! It ran out long time ago. :11:

jmlamerson
02-17-2009, 03:56 PM
I have very little if any grace to give! It ran out long time ago. :11:

Our team is going to be better next year than it was under Herm f'n Edwards. Clark is going to let his new GM and HC build the team (note: I wrote "build" not "rebuild") into a contender. And given how miserable the Herm Edwards era was, a team that looks competitive in 2009 will be enough for most fans (me included).

chiefsfreak4life
02-17-2009, 09:13 PM
Is this thread still going?

Oh well, in response to the OP.

We take Curry #3.. and Tom Brady in the 6th round!

Close, but I say Curry #3 and Rhett Bohmar in the 4th as the QBOTF:D

Codac
02-17-2009, 10:09 PM
Close, but I say Curry #3 and Rhett Bohmar in the 4th as the QBOTF:D

Your not serious are you? Rhett? No way. Especially not that high. Maybe Rhett in the 6th if he is still there. But probably not.

Curry at 3 is iffy. No need in predicting our pick until after we make some moves in the Free Agency.

jmlamerson
02-18-2009, 12:10 AM
Your not serious are you? Rhett? No way. Especially not that high. Maybe Rhett in the 6th if he is still there. But probably not.

Curry at 3 is iffy. No need in predicting our pick until after we make some moves in the Free Agency.

But . . . what else will we talk about?

prough91
02-18-2009, 12:26 PM
I am now on the Curry band wagon, he could be the next DT!

Amen, brother. Everyone talks about Curry being overvalued at #3. Derrick was #4. Anyone think he was overvalued?

chief31
02-18-2009, 12:51 PM
The time is now. We will more than likely not have another chance at this.

I'm preferential to Sanchez, but I won't balk at Stafford.

It's time to put the ghost of Blackledge to bed, man up, and start running this franchise right for a change.

Warning:

Posts calling for Crabtree or Curry at third overall will be met with MUCH ridicule.

Warning:

Use of the phrase "Brady in the 6th-round" will get you an anti-freeze ****tail.


Finally, congrats to Edith Morgan for finally seeing her son home where he belongs!
:yahoo:

The ghost of Blackledge is safely in his grave. Drafting a QB without being able to protect him, and while neglecting this horrible defense would be just what the doctor ordered for reviving the ghost.


Nope. Bad argument. Either one of these guys are better than anything you're gonna' see next year, and using a low value position like linemen to justify being cautious doesn't cut it.

Also, and get in your skull, college QB's running in the spread are not going to be recruited to the Chiefs.
So all you Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy fans?
Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

The Chiefs under Haley will be running a pro-style offense. Thigpen and the Pistol are out; get used to it.
I'm not saying Tyler won't be around, but his game is what will be asked to improve, not the O-Coord trying to make chicken salad from chicken ****.

20 years of Dudley Do-Wrong have created an extremely cautious fan base. 20 years of doing it wrong are about to be broken, eradicated, and wiped from the face of Arrowhead Stadium forever. For those who wanted Carl gone, don't cry when his ways and means go with him.

Right. Because the last time that happened, the team that was ranked 31st (264.6 YPG) and 32nd (284.4 YPG) in offense the previous two seasons only made an instant jump to 8th (351.3 YPG).

And the last time some low-value OT was taken #1 overall, 18th (310.0) and 26th (287.5) only moved to 12th (345.6 YPG).

Bet you can't find that kind of team improvement for the last two QBs to be picked 1st and 3rd overall.

I'm feeling helpful, so I'll check for ya...

Matt Ryan took his team form 23rd (301.0) and 12th (331.9) to 6th (361.2)

Very Nice! Even comparable.

Jemarcus Russell took his team from 32nd (246.2) and 21st (309.4) all he way up to 25th (294.8).

Eek.

Maybe that was just a fluke. Let's scratch that one, and give you a mulligan....

So we'll go to the next most recent 1st pick QB.

Alex Smith brought the 49ers from the depths of 26th (286.6) and 4th (355.4) to 32nd (224.2)

Geez. That isn't all that great of an improvement either.

Have you thought this through at all?

Lol. What am I saying? That sort of thing just isn't your bag, is it? :D


You don't take linemen at 3rd overall, and you NEVER draft for need.

Right. Why draft for need? Who wants to build a football team?

To build a football team, you have to fit so many peices together. Why bother looking for the pieces you need, when you can get more of the same piece?

Very wise.


IF we draft either guy, don't expect to see much in the first year beyond some preseason time. It'll be clipboard duty for the n00b, but you have to start somewhere.
Both lines can and will be augmented through FA. They can also both improve under a better staff,
Do not discount both how god-awful our coaching roster was, and how a great staff can make players better. I've lived in AZ. for three years now, and I'm here to tell you that prior to Haley, Warner was an old has-been, and Fitz was good but nowhere NEAR great.
That 's what great coaches can do, and that's what they're supposed to do.
As for RB's, Pioli as a GM knows good and well that you DON'T pay those guys big $$$$, because they are a grand a dozen.

If you want a franchise-type QB, then give him somewhere to play. The pocket is made by O-linemen.

And as I like to say about the pocket and the QB...

If you build it, he will come.


John Elway and Bret Favre. That's TWO!:D

And it's because the Pistol is not a viable offense for a Championship Caliber team, and because Thigpen is crap taking snaps from under center.

Let go the gimmicks, and let's get real.

For a change.

I forget, what team drafted and developed Favre? It was The Falcons, right? Or was it The Packers?

And that "Pistol"-style offense that you are talking about as such a failure has been in the past two Super Bowls, as much as I agree that they are a fad.

And you mentioned getting back to a real NFL-style offense as support for your opinion of taking a QB, but fail to recognize the style of offense that our new HC made a name for himself with.

Guess what... I don't think that we will be trying a regular offense again for some time.

Also, how are you going to tell us not to expect much from a first season out of your drafted QB, but the above average output that Thig managed means that he is some kind of failure?

We may take a QB. This team has been doing almost everything that I am oppose to for over three years now.

But it is pretty plain to see that this team was very bad at several things. Run blocking, QB pressure and run defense.

There were very few bright spots. WR, QB, TE and CB.

Don't replace the bright spots without replacing the problem areas.

Problem areas should be the top priority.

prough91
02-18-2009, 12:55 PM
And that "Pistol"-style offense that you are talking about as such a failure has been in the past two Super Bowls, as much as I agree that they are a fad.


I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but I have never played football. Ever. Well, backyard, but nothing organized. Wouldn't the pistol be harder to gameplan for than a conventional offense?

jmlamerson
02-18-2009, 12:56 PM
You could have also mentioned that people draft OL all the time in the top-5, and it almost always turns out well in the long run (Mike Williams excluded).

chief31
02-18-2009, 01:01 PM
I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but I have never played football. Ever. Well, backyard, but nothing organized. Wouldn't the pistol be harder to gameplan for than a conventional offense?

Gameplan against? For now. the entire league has been conditioned to expect certain hings from opponents' offenses. And his spread is different than they have come to expect.

But, without a real running game, the spread should become easier to defend in time.

Bike
02-18-2009, 01:33 PM
I miss Darth.

Codac
02-18-2009, 04:05 PM
But . . . what else will we talk about?

What?

Chiefster
02-18-2009, 04:11 PM
Is this how you really want to play this out? I was defending you BTW. As far as your puny little threat about leaving the house goes, you can leave the same way you came and not be missed.


I miss Darth.

I stand corrected.

tornadospotter
02-18-2009, 04:21 PM
I stand corrected.
You still stand? :wheelchair:

Chiefster
03-03-2009, 01:40 AM
You still stand? :wheelchair:

You're right; I sit corrected.