PDA

View Full Version : Cassel traded to the Chiefs



balto
02-28-2009, 02:03 PM
NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive Chiefs complete trade for Cassel (http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/28/chiefs-complete-trade-for-cassel/)


Update:
Chiefs get Vrabel and Cassel in exchange for the Chiefs 2009 2nd rd(34th) pick.

wubfree
02-28-2009, 02:09 PM
Not sure if Cassel is the real deal but the move tells me the Chiefs want to win now vs in a few years.

fireman55
02-28-2009, 02:09 PM
i just saw that on nfl.com. i was hoping they would go with thigpen next year. who can we trade thigpen to to get something in return for him. i am sure there are teams that are lookin for a good quarterback and we can get a draft pick or player for him. just not sure what teams need quarterbacks

northwest
02-28-2009, 02:10 PM
just read this on rotoworld - really can't believe it.

well, for those who wanted the chiefs to do something - here you go.

and also, for those who thought thigpen couldn't do it -here you go.

imcorrect
02-28-2009, 02:11 PM
Wow, At least we have our quarterback. Hope we didn't sell the farm.

chiefnut
02-28-2009, 02:13 PM
we may have traded thigpen to the pats, who knows, hopefully croyle. no details announced. i just hope we didn't give up to much. i am still not sold on this kid yet. don't forget the receivers he had and the team he was on.

ultimatepatsfan
02-28-2009, 02:17 PM
we may have traded thigpen to the pats, who knows, hopefully croyle. no details announced. i just hope we didn't give up to much. i am still not sold on this kid yet. don't forget the receivers he had and the team he was on.

I've watched Matt since he started with us. He is not as good as Tom Brady (nobody is.) He IS much better than anyone available. He's worth a first rounder, but knowing Pioli, you only gave up a 2nd and some escalator for next year if you go to playoffs this season.

Be happy! There's not someone better out there. Certainly no chance of a bust like you'd have with a draft pick. Heck-- Randy Moss said in an interview he wished we could keep him. And Randy was being honest.

Congrats and good luck this season!

balto
02-28-2009, 02:25 PM
What about just trading us Brady instead of Cassel? you never know if Brady will be the same HEHEHE COME ON PLZZZZZZZZZZZ

hermhater
02-28-2009, 02:25 PM
I guess we let the captain run his ship the way he wants...

http://arrowheadjunkies.com/pictures/PhotoShop/sig_pics/coaches_and_GMs/kansas_city/pioli_welcome_to_kansas_city.png

SDChief09
02-28-2009, 02:25 PM
I like this more than drafting a QB, and Pioli knows the guy...

However, please dont let it be the top pick, I REALLY wanted curry.

yashi
02-28-2009, 02:27 PM
Wow I'm the man. I predicted he was part of the package with Vrabel. I'm officially the best source of information there is now.

Ok, gloating time over.

Funny, now we have 2 of the best scrambling QBs in the league. I'm pretty happy with this. Thigpen was terrible when not in the spread offense, so at least we have multiple options now. And now we don't have to worry about drafting Stafford or Sanchez now.

I'm extremely pleased if this trade didn't involve our #3 pick.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 02:30 PM
Wow I'm the man. I predicted he was part of the package with Vrabel. I'm officially the best source of information there is now.

Ok, gloating time over.

Funny, now we have 2 of the best scrambling QBs in the league. I'm pretty happy with this. Thigpen was terrible when not in the spread offense, so at least we have multiple options now. And now we don't have to worry about drafting Stafford or Sanchez now.

I'm extremely pleased if this trade didn't involve our #3 pick.

I'm extremely curious what we gave up. Swap 1sts and a 3rd? A 2nd this year and a 1st in 2010? Our 1st this year?

EDIT: And there's no way we pick Curry at 3 now. We're either getting Raji or getting Cassel a LTOTF.

northwest
02-28-2009, 02:30 PM
I like this more than drafting a QB, and Pioli knows the guy...

However, please dont let it be the top pick, I REALLY wanted curry.

i don't think he'd give up the 1st round pick. then again, with there not really being a clear cut player to grab, he might have. :(

Let's hope not though. Im ready for more details to leak.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 02:31 PM
3rd team involved now?

yashi
02-28-2009, 02:32 PM
yep, this could either be a great trade or a bad trade depending on whether we get to keep the #3.

Actually I bet we swapped 1st rounders and gave them 1 or 2 later round picks. If we end up with Alex Mack with a late 1st rounder, it wouldn't be terrible I suppose.

Kind of curious because what player at #3 would the Pats be chasing? Curry perhaps.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 02:36 PM
This isn't a done deal yet fellas...

balto
02-28-2009, 02:38 PM
This isn't a done deal yet fellas...


Whats being said?

jap1
02-28-2009, 02:39 PM
I dont like this trade for one reason. WE HAVE A HORRIBLE OFFENSIVE LINE! I do not think our line is at the point where any QB will be consistently successful.

I hope we didnt give up too much for Cassel.

Ideally I hope that this trade was:
Pats: Vrabel, Cassel, 1st Round pick
Chiefs: 1st Round pick

That would at least give us the chance to get Robinson, or Mack or Unger and improve our OL.

or:

Pats: Vrabel, Cassel
Chiefs: 2nd round this year, and conditional 2-4 next year.

With this, I hope it gives us a chance to trade down in the draft. and pick up someone else's 2nd rounder and a later 1st rounder.

I dont think these guys are worth anything more than that. Cassel is decent with a decent OL and playmakers around him. Take those away and I dont know. Lets hope he is still good. I cant help but remember in the preseason last year everyone was disappointed in the Patriots backup QBs.

I still have hope for this offseason, but it is waning.

balto
02-28-2009, 02:41 PM
http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/no-3-pick-not-involved-in-cass.html

No. 3 Pick Not Involved in Cassel Deal

Posted by Tom Curran: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:21 PM

Turn my back for just a second and look what happens in here. Anyway, interrupting the PFT Invasion, I wanted to drop a nugget of info on the Cassel to KC deal. The Chiefs first round pick (No. 3 overall) is not part of this deal.
I'll have a more fleshed out story up on the site shortly.
Florio, back to you. Don't you people use coasters?!

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 02:42 PM
I like this more than drafting a QB, and Pioli knows the guy...

However, please dont let it be the top pick, I REALLY wanted curry.
I dont see any way around it... we lost our 1st pick. I really wanted Curry too.

But hey, we got good depth at QB (if this is finalized).

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 02:43 PM
This isn't a done deal yet fellas...

Per Peter King it is. We traded our 2nd round pick for Vrabel and Cassel.

Great trade.

Out 1st rounder is going to have to be Raji or LT, I think.

And don't count out a Tony G./LJ/Waters trade for extra picks either.

yashi
02-28-2009, 02:44 PM
Here's some Cassel tape from last season. Conclusions:

- He's very accurate on the run
- He can definitely throw accurately downfield as well
- Doesn't have the strongest arm, but seems above average
- Very mobile

YouTube - Matt Cassel 2008 Tribute

balto
02-28-2009, 02:46 PM
http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/secondround-pick-for-cassel.html

SECOND-ROUND PICK FOR CASSEL

Posted by Mike Florio: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:34 PM

I previously was convinced that the Patriots wouldn't be able to work out a trade sending quarterback Matt Cassel to the Chiefs because I believed that new Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli and his former colleagues in New England feared the perception that one side got snookered.

There was no such fear, but it won't change the perception that one side got snookered.

Peter King of SI.com (who also does some work for NBC, and pretty much every other media company on the planet) reports that the Chiefs gave up only a second-round draft pick for Cassel.

Wow.

A second-round pick, for a guy who merited a $14.65 million, one-year contract based on his play in 2008.

Let's consider that for a second. Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round pick.

So, with all due apologies to the Patriots, the current score is Pioli 1, Pats 0.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 02:46 PM
I dont see any way around it... we lost our 1st pick. I really wanted Curry too.

But hey, we got good depth at QB (if this is finalized).

Do you get tired of being wrong all the time?

Quit being so negative. These are good times to be a Chiefs fan.

Coach
02-28-2009, 02:47 PM
http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/no-3-pick-not-involved-in-cass.html

No. 3 Pick Not Involved in Cassel Deal

Posted by Tom Curran: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:21 PM

Turn my back for just a second and look what happens in here. Anyway, interrupting the PFT Invasion, I wanted to drop a nugget of info on the Cassel to KC deal. The Chiefs first round pick (No. 3 overall) is not part of this deal.
I'll have a more fleshed out story up on the site shortly.
Florio, back to you. Don't you people use coasters?!

That could be good or bad news. I'm sure we gave up a lot. You don't just get Cassell and Vrabel for a 2010 1st rounder. I've got a feeling Gonzalez is part of this deal. And it might be a great thing for TG.

Funny, we went from having no QB's at the beginning of the season last year(IMO Croyle was never the answer), to now having 2 that could be really good.

yashi
02-28-2009, 02:47 PM
Per Peter King it is. We traded our 2nd round pick for Vrabel and Cassel.

Great trade.

Out 1st rounder is going to have to be Raji or LT, I think.

And don't count out a Tony G./LJ/Waters trade for extra picks either.

If this is true, then I'm thrilled. Running through the mock drafts, I wasn't really seeing players we needed around our 2nd selection, especially for a 3-4. Loadholt might have been nice, but I'm skeptical that he'll be able to block speed rushers in the NFL.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 02:48 PM
That could be good or bad news. I'm sure we gave up a lot. You don't just get Cassell and Vrabel for a 2010 1st rounder. I've got a feeling Gonzalez is part of this deal. And it might be a great thing for TG.

Funny, we went from having no QB's at the beginning of the season last year(IMO Croyle was never the answer), to now having 2 that could be really good.

Nope. We got both for our 2nd rounder.

Coach
02-28-2009, 02:49 PM
http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/secondround-pick-for-cassel.html

SECOND-ROUND PICK FOR CASSEL

Posted by Mike Florio: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:34 PM

I previously was convinced that the Patriots wouldn't be able to work out a trade sending quarterback Matt Cassel to the Chiefs because I believed that new Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli and his former colleagues in New England feared the perception that one side got snookered.

There was no such fear, but it won't change the perception that one side got snookered.

Peter King of SI.com (who also does some work for NBC, and pretty much every other media company on the planet) reports that the Chiefs gave up only a second-round draft pick for Cassel.

Wow.

A second-round pick, for a guy who merited a $14.65 million, one-year contract based on his play in 2008.

Let's consider that for a second. Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round pick.

So, with all due apologies to the Patriots, the current score is Pioli 1, Pats 0.

Don't get ahead of yourself hotshot. We don't know the details yet. Vrabel was also involved in this deal. This smells like a Tony Gonzalez trade to me.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 02:49 PM
If this is true, then I'm thrilled. Running through the mock drafts, I wasn't really seeing players we needed, especially for a 3-4. Loadholt might have been nice, but I'm skeptical that he'll be able to block speed rushers in the NFL.

I have a feeling Pioli isn't finished wheeling and dealing yet. Normally, I think its nuts even to suggest that we trade down from 3 to get extra picks. But Pioli is on a roll right now.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 02:50 PM
Don't get ahead of yourself hotshot. We don't know the details yet. Vrabel was also involved in this deal. This smells like a Tony Gonzalez trade to me.

Nope. Pioli: 1. Haters on this board: -8.

yashi
02-28-2009, 02:51 PM
I have a feeling Pioli isn't finished wheeling and dealing yet. Normally, I think its nuts even to suggest that we trade down from 3 to get extra picks. But Pioli is on a roll right now.
Well I can see why he was so quiet in free agency yesterday now.. he was busy screwing over his old team.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 02:53 PM
Well I can see why he was so quiet in free agency yesterday now.. he was busy screwing over his old team.

Hey, the Pats did well too. They get the 34th overall pick in exchange for a 33-year-old LB and a former 7th rounder. They clear $17M in cap room to sign Wilfork and get some more FAs.

This is truly win/win.

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 02:53 PM
I dont see any way around it... we lost our 1st pick. I really wanted Curry too.

But hey, we got good depth at QB (if this is finalized).Ummm, how is that being negative?

All i said was I didnt see any way round it...geez, lighten up.


Do you get tired of being wrong all the time?

Quit being so negative. These are good times to be a Chiefs fan.Well well well, looks who being negative.

Coach
02-28-2009, 02:54 PM
Let's also hope LJ was involved in this deal. That would be awesome!!!!!!!!

balto
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Maybe its a

Tony
Waters
Croyle

For

Cassel
Vrabel

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Nope. Pioli: 1. Haters on this board: -8.oh my gosh quit being so negative.....wow what a hypocryte!!

slimdagreat
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
My only concern about bringing in all these ex-Pats is that unless Pioli did some coaching on the side while he was in NE, we don't have any coaches used to running the NE system

balto
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Let's also hope LJ was involved in this deal. That would be awesome!!!!!!!!


Oh even better

LJ
Waters

For

Cassel
Vrabel

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 02:59 PM
Oh even better

LJ
Waters

For

Cassel
Vrabel
Thing is Pats signed Taylor so I doubt it bout LJ.

I hope we didnt lose Waters, hes the best Guard weve got.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 02:59 PM
oh my gosh quit being so negative.....wow what a hypocryte!!

There's a difference about being negative about drivel like "Haley and Pioli Suck!" and being negative about the Chiefs.

The Chiefs are winning FA right now. I know people aren't used to it. It's making them confused and angry. Just hang on. We'll all get through this together.

pbatrucker
02-28-2009, 02:59 PM
I just read on NFL.com That Peter King of SI.com reported we only gave up a 2nd round draft choice. If that's true we got a deal.
:bananen_smilies046:

arrowheadGoon305
02-28-2009, 02:59 PM
i hope this trade doesnt involve tony, lj, or waters. And i feel kinda bad for thigpen. I rely wanted to see him as our staring QB

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 03:00 PM
The chiefs traded a 2nd round pick, not players.

Check out CNNSI for details.

Coach
02-28-2009, 03:00 PM
Maybe its a

Tony
Waters
Croyle

For

Cassel
Vrabel


Oh even better

LJ
Waters

For

Cassel
Vrabel

That would be the steal of the century. I'm sure there is draft pick consideration in there as well. I've got a feeling TG is involved. And I'm also hoping LJ.

TG
LJ
2009 2nd rd pick

for
Cassell
Vrabel

That would make sense. There is a reason that the details aren't public yet. It could be because they want to let Tony Gonzalez know.

This would give TG a chance to get his ring. I would be happy for him. But I will hate not having on our team. LJ on the other hand, we probably had to pay them another pick for them to consider taking him.

We'll have to wait and see.

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 03:01 PM
I think you got me wrong here JM. Im excited bout this!!!

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 03:02 PM
I just read on NFL.com That Peter King of SI.com reported we only gave up a 2nd round draft choice. If that's true we got a deal.
:bananen_smilies046:U aint kiddin. theres got to be somethin we dont know yet.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 03:03 PM
I think you got me wrong here JM. Im excited bout this!!!

Then I apologize. The Chiefs are finally headed in the right direction after a wasted three years. This is a day to be happy!

Coach
02-28-2009, 03:04 PM
If we got those two players for a 2nd round pick, then they should start building a bronze statue of Pioli to put in front of arrowhead.

jap1
02-28-2009, 03:04 PM
Let's also hope LJ was involved in this deal. That would be awesome!!!!!!!!

That would be interesting. Personally I still think LJ has a lot in him with a decent line, but I am starting to think we may have to sacrifice guys like him in order to build that OL. Hypothetically speaking though, I think this would be a fair trade (but I probably value LJ a lot more than most people do):

Pats: Vrabel, Cassel, their 2nd rounder
Chiefs: LJ + our 2nd rounder

So basically we trade LJ for Cassel and Vrabel, then swap 2nd rounders.

We then still have enough draft picks to build our OL. Im sure people will think that LJ isnt worth that. But I think in the end Pats will get the better of this deal because LJ will blow up behind that OL and with Moss, Welker, and Brady keeping the safeties back.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 03:05 PM
That would be the steal of the century. I'm sure there is draft pick consideration in there as well. I've got a feeling TG is involved. And I'm also hoping LJ.

TG
LJ
2009 2nd rd pick

for
Cassell
Vrabel

That would make sense. There is a reason that the details aren't public yet. It could be because they want to let Tony Gonzalez know.

This would give TG a chance to get his ring. I would be happy for him. But I will hate not having on our team. LJ on the other hand, we probably had to pay them another pick for them to consider taking him.

We'll have to wait and see.

EVERYONE PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.

WE TRADED A 2ND ROUNDER FOR BOTH VRABEL AND CASSEL.

THAT IS ALL.

Coach
02-28-2009, 03:05 PM
Now we do the following on draft day
Monroe -1st, LB -3rd
Or Curry - 1st, Loadholt - 3rd.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 03:07 PM
Now we do the following on draft day
Monroe -1st, LB -3rd
Or Curry - 1st, Loadholt - 3rd.

I bet a combination of LJ/Waters/Tony nets us at least another 2nd rounder.

Raji - 1st
OL - 2nd
LB - 3rd

balto
02-28-2009, 03:09 PM
Now we trade our 3rd overall to the Jags to get there 1st and 2nd!!!

Now you can look at the NE/Jags trade like this

Chiefs get:
1)8th
2)39th
Cassel
Vrabel

Pats get:
2)34th

Jags get:
1)3rd

OK OK OK if we are able to trade down a few spots and still get a guy like Rey Maualuga and an 2nd round pick like this

THEN YES YES YES I will be Happy for this Cassel/Chiefs trade!!!!!!

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 03:10 PM
Now we trade our 3rd overall to the Jags to get there 1st and 2nd!!!

Now you can look at the NE/Jags trade like this

Chiefs get:
1)8th
2)39th
Cassel
Vrabel

Pats get:
2)34th

Jags get:
1)3rd

OK OK OK if we are able to trade down a few spots and still get a guy like Rey Maualuga and an 2nd round pick like this

THEN YES YES YES I will be Happy for this Cassel/Chiefs trade!!!!!!

That would be fantastic. I love the thought of Maualuga on this defense.

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 03:10 PM
EVERYONE PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.

WE TRADED A 2ND ROUNDER FOR BOTH VRABEL AND CASSEL.

THAT IS ALL.that just seems too good 2B true!!!:bananen_smilies046:

Coach
02-28-2009, 03:11 PM
The Patriots fans must hate the Chiefs.

*Tearing the ACL of their HOF QB Tom Brady in week 1 - $10,000,000
*Steal Pioli away from the Pats - $3,000,000
*Taking the Pats defensive team leader Mike Vrabel - $3,200,000
*Stealing the Pats QB of the future Matt Cassell - 2nd round pick
*Seeing the look on Patriots fans' faces - Priceless.

pbatrucker
02-28-2009, 03:12 PM
It'll have to be OL first, they wouldn't bring in Cassel and let him be pounded.

honda522
02-28-2009, 03:13 PM
BullS*!t. They better have no burned a first or second round draft pick to get him.

I don't think he is the solution. He is going to get sacked ALOT, especially if we dont draft or sign a decent lineman.

balto
02-28-2009, 03:13 PM
The Patriots must hate the Chiefs.

*Tearing the ACL of their HOF QB Tom Brady in week 1 - $10,000,000
*Steal Pioli away from the Pats - $3,000,000
*Taking the Pats defensive team leader Mike Vrabel - $3,200,000
*Stealing the Pats QB of the future Matt Cassell - 2nd round pick
*Seeing the look on Patriots fans' faces - Priceless.


LOL lets hope your right and we send them LJ too!!!! Then he can tear that team apart MUAHAHA

jap1
02-28-2009, 03:14 PM
I bet a combination of LJ/Waters/Tony nets us at least another 2nd rounder.

Raji - 1st
OL - 2nd
LB - 3rd

Do you mean all 3 equals one 2nd rounder. I have to disagree. A Pro Bowl TE and LG that both have a few years left in them are equal to way more than a late 2nd rounder.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 03:14 PM
It'll have to be OL first, they wouldn't bring in Cassel and let him be pounded.

I'd normally agree but every top-15 pick by the Pats this decade has seemed to be front seven on defense. That's why I think they go Raji or Curry. And I'm saying Raji because we need our NTOTF.

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 03:14 PM
The Patriots fans must hate the Chiefs.

*Tearing the ACL of their HOF QB Tom Brady in week 1 - $10,000,000
*Steal Pioli away from the Pats - $3,000,000
*Taking the Pats defensive team leader Mike Vrabel - $3,200,000
*Stealing the Pats QB of the future Matt Cassell - 2nd round pick
*Seeing the look on Patriots fans' faces - Priceless.Nice!!!!

This may seem kind of harsh but:

Thank you Bernard!!!

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 03:15 PM
Do you mean all 3 equals one 2nd rounder. I have to disagree. A Pro Bowl TE and LG that both have a few years left in them are equal to way more than a late 2nd rounder.

I didn't mean all three together. I meant that we trade one of the three for a 2nd, or a combination of three for more.

jap1
02-28-2009, 03:17 PM
Now we trade our 3rd overall to the Jags to get there 1st and 2nd!!!

Now you can look at the NE/Jags trade like this

Chiefs get:
1)8th
2)39th
Cassel
Vrabel

Pats get:
2)34th

Jags get:
1)3rd

OK OK OK if we are able to trade down a few spots and still get a guy like Rey Maualuga and an 2nd round pick like this

THEN YES YES YES I will be Happy for this Cassel/Chiefs trade!!!!!!

Or go with Raji since it sounds like we want to go 3-4. Pick-up Unger, Loadholt, or Matthews with our 2nd pick.

Eydugstr
02-28-2009, 03:18 PM
Think it's pretty safe to say that Croyle can forget about getting his old locker back.

I have mixed feelings about this. Cassell is a great scrambler, throws very well on the run and handled the pressure of coming in for Tom Brady really well.

But if you look at the youtube tribute posted earlier in this thread...There is absolutely NO QUIT in the OL of the patriots. There were a lot of times Cassell got sprung free because an offensive lineman ran back to make one more block. Also doesn't hurt to have Randy Moss at wide reciever.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really thankful we have Bowe, Gonzalez and Waters...but we could use some help on that OL !! Cassell and Thigpen can scramble like crazy but life is so much better in the NFL when you don't have to.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 03:18 PM
We got all this for just a second round pick?

balto
02-28-2009, 03:18 PM
Or go with Raji since it sounds like we want to go 3-4. Pick-up Unger, Loadholt, or Matthews with our 2nd pick.


TRUE!!! We could also sign Ray Lewis to be our MLB since we still have tons of FA money since all we do is trade not sign hehe

jap1
02-28-2009, 03:19 PM
I didn't mean all three together. I meant that we trade one of the three for a 2nd, or a combination of three for more.

Yeah I would agree that that would be great for both sides, and the players involved.

Bighurt27
02-28-2009, 03:22 PM
Bernard Pollard made this all happen. Way to go Pioli.

balto
02-28-2009, 03:23 PM
Kansas City Chiefs - Chiefs Acquire QB Matt Cassel, LB Mike Vrabel in Trade with Patriots (http://kcchiefs.com/news/2009/02/28/chiefs_acquire_qb_matt_cassel_lb_mike_vrabel_in_tr ade_with_patriots/)

I would guess its a 100% official since its on the Chiefs web site!!!!! Cassel/Vrabel for only our 2nd rounder

HEHE they already have Cassel listed on the Roster LOL

lane27
02-28-2009, 03:24 PM
i think it was a steal to get cassel and Vrabel with the 2nd rounder. and i would love to trade the # 3 and move down just a few spots. and pick up another 2ns rounder. Im hoping this draft rocks like the last one did. I would like to see us sign a DE in FA though.

bigpoppachief
02-28-2009, 03:25 PM
lol now thats excited

jap1
02-28-2009, 03:26 PM
Now we trade our 3rd overall to the Jags to get there 1st and 2nd!!!

Now you can look at the NE/Jags trade like this

Chiefs get:
1)8th
2)39th
Cassel
Vrabel

Pats get:
2)34th

Jags get:
1)3rd

OK OK OK if we are able to trade down a few spots and still get a guy like Rey Maualuga and an 2nd round pick like this

THEN YES YES YES I will be Happy for this Cassel/Chiefs trade!!!!!!

Or give our 3rd overall to Philly for their two late 1st rounders. Now if that happened, I start dancing in the street in celebration.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 03:28 PM
Bernard Pollard made this all happen. Way to go Pioli.

:lol:

jap1
02-28-2009, 03:32 PM
So here is a random thing I just found out:

So I told my fiance about us getting Cassel, and was reading his bio. Apparently he is from the LA area ... and she was like, "oh yeah, Matt Cassel he was pretty good in HS, I remember us playing him."

HAHA. Sooo random. It really is a small world.

Coach
02-28-2009, 03:34 PM
This trade reminds me of the Ikea "start the car" commerical!

YouTube - Ikea winter sale commercial

Chief Tyler
02-28-2009, 03:39 PM
Now to make this day better than Christmas Pioli needs to get the Jags first round and their second so we can take Raji at the 8th spot (then I get to rub it in the face of a bunch of Pack fan friends who are high on him). Take a 3-4 LB in Sintim in the second or maybe Unger/Mack if they're avaliable. Maybe Loadholt has a chance to drop to the thrid, and heck we still have a bunch of guys with some trade value that want out.

Can you imagine it?!

I'd still be happy with Curry at 3, but unless we're able to get a higher up pick another way, dealing that number 3 out seems to be the best option.

Bighurt27
02-28-2009, 03:40 PM
Since Cassel is a former Patriot, we're actually gonna get more than 8 second clips on Sports Center now.

Coach
02-28-2009, 03:42 PM
Since Cassel is a former Patriot, we're actually gonna get more than 8 second clips on Sports Center now.

Bighurt coming out of nowhere. Welcome back.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Since Cassel is a former Patriot, we're actually gonna get more than 8 second clips on Sports Center now.

That.

:11:

:welcome:

bigpoppachief
02-28-2009, 03:45 PM
This trade reminds me of the Ikea "start the car" commerical!

YouTube - Ikea winter sale commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C7oqXewyCE)


lol THAT is exactly how I feel right now !!

Bighurt27
02-28-2009, 03:49 PM
Bighurt coming out of nowhere. Welcome back.Yeah I changed computers and just recently remembered about this site. Good to be back. Even better to see the Chiefs turning into winners before our eyes.:bananen_smilies046:

theaxeeffect4311
02-28-2009, 03:50 PM
I think the Chiefs now need to go after Khalif Barnes and Laverneus Coles. This would give us a dependable speed receiver and a RT. Then we can focus on the defense in the draft. I say we stay at 3 and draft Curry. Maybe trade someone for a second round to try and grab Alex Mack because I am very high on that guy.

KU4LIFE
02-28-2009, 03:50 PM
Chiefs obviously got a great deal for acquiring Cassel. I think both KC and NE will both be happy with what they got.

jerhart
02-28-2009, 03:54 PM
I hope we go after Curry now with the #3...we have Vrabel to mentor a young Curry and DJ and lead our new 3-4 defense.

yashi
02-28-2009, 04:19 PM
No way we get this deal with Herm the Worm and King Carl running the ship. Great Job Mr Pioli. :D
This is from NFL Networks Adam Shefter :Just in and added, Pioli out bid Detroit and the Bucs as they wanted to get Cassell to trade to Denver for Cutler and they just did not get it done. It seems that Pioli is steppin on other teams and lovin it. I'M Lovin it!

interesting that Cutler was in trade talks.. looks like McDaniels might have wanted Cassel over Cutler to run his offense.

Coach
02-28-2009, 04:24 PM
If my memory is correct the way the deal would have went is, the Bucs get Cassell, they trade to Detroit for #1 pick then Bucs get Cutler for #1 pick. We got a better deal then all 3 teams combined IMO. :D
What was NE going to get? Pioli obviously outbid that deal.

Apparently Cutler is not too happy that he was being shopped. That's also good news for the Chiefs.

billb40
02-28-2009, 04:31 PM
This is the best move made by the Chiefs in 10 years.:sign0098:

reded
02-28-2009, 04:41 PM
The man does seem to be a shrewd businessman. I LIKE it!

warcrychief
02-28-2009, 04:50 PM
WOW is all i can say. With one pick in the draft, he gets 2 great players. and we didnt have to give up the first round pick. i bet the pats didnt want that big money pick. Just kinda leary now because we have 2 QB that are about the same as skill level. But hey we finally got that QB we were clearing the cap for. :bananen_smilies046:

Coach
02-28-2009, 04:50 PM
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — The Kansas City Chiefs have acquired quarterback Matt Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel from the New England Patriots in a trade for their second-round draft pick.Cassel had been the backup in New England when Tom Brady, a two-time Super Bowl MVP, was injured minutes into last season's opener. Cassel hadn't started a game since high school but helped lead the Patriots to an 11-5 record. It wasn't, however, good enough for a playoff berth. Brady has suffered setbacks in his return from a torn ligaments in his knee, including a second operation to fight an...

More... (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10883&Itemid=2)

rustfan76
02-28-2009, 05:20 PM
Now , I say we trade LJ to Cinci for T.J. H______zada(lol). Then sign Derrick Brooks also to work with Curry.

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 05:31 PM
I think the Pats liked the deal sicne the Chiefs 2nd rounder is basically a conditional first round pick in theory, but being able to upgrade at both LB/QB instantly improves the offense.

Im still not sold on Cassel nor am I a Thigpen fan but I will give Cassel this, that I believe he is a better QB. He has all the mechanics and physical talent that most peolpe loved in Thigpen but with an added bonus he has better arm strength and accuracy coming out of the gate.

Only time will tell.

But with this trade the speculation on the Chiefs 1st pick in the draft has to consider a wider array of players beside Curry or an LT which is a good thing. A Raji to complement the defense on day one would be good or a Left tackle would be ideal to help solidify the defensive line.

I think we have to wait and see what else happens in FA before we can get any definitive solution to a good #3. If he picks up a Jahri Evans (G, New Orleans) or some other FA;s then this would the greatest FA for the Chiefs in a long time

Well done Pioli lets see what else you have up your sleeve.

PawnshopMarimba
02-28-2009, 05:34 PM
Cassell and Vrabel for a 2nd round pick? Sounds fair enough.

See ya later, Huard.

Eydugstr
02-28-2009, 05:37 PM
Bernard Pollard made this all happen. Way to go Pioli.

:lol:

Thanks Bernard! That hit impacted the Patriots and Chiefs in ways nobody ever thought possible. :sign0098:

KottkeKU
02-28-2009, 05:44 PM
is it JUST a second rounder, or is it our second rounder (this year) and then another pick the following year depending on Cassel's performance (so if he does good, our first rounder next year is gone to the Pats...)....??? i thought they franchised Cassel??

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 05:44 PM
Since Cassel is a former Patriot, we're actually gonna get more than 8 second clips on Sports Center now.

We do get the clips with Haynesworth

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 05:45 PM
is it JUST a second rounder, or is it our second rounder (this year) and then another pick the following year depending on Cassel's performance (so if he does good, our first rounder next year is gone to the Pats...)....???

Its the second rounder this year (34th pick overall)

jap1
02-28-2009, 05:46 PM
I think the Pats liked the deal sicne the Chiefs 2nd rounder is basically a conditional first round pick in theory, but being able to upgrade at both LB/QB instantly improves the offense.

Im still not sold on Cassel nor am I a Thigpen fan but I will give Cassel this, that I believe he is a better QB. He has all the mechanics and physical talent that most peolpe loved in Thigpen but with an added bonus he has better arm strength and accuracy coming out of the gate.

Only time will tell.

But with this trade the speculation on the Chiefs 1st pick in the draft has to consider a wider array of players beside Curry or an LT which is a good thing. A Raji to complement the defense on day one would be good or a Left tackle would be ideal to help solidify the defensive line.

I think we have to wait and see what else happens in FA before we can get any definitive solution to a good #3. If he picks up a Jahri Evans (G, New Orleans) or some other FA;s then this would the greatest FA for the Chiefs in a long time

Well done Pioli lets see what else you have up your sleeve.

Jahri Evans was tendered by the Saints. We would have to give up a 1st and 3rd round pick.

jap1
02-28-2009, 05:48 PM
is it JUST a second rounder, or is it our second rounder (this year) and then another pick the following year depending on Cassel's performance (so if he does good, our first rounder next year is gone to the Pats...)....??? i thought they franchised Cassel??

They did franchise them, but once he is franchised, the Pats can do what they want for him. They can trade a franchised player for whatever they feel is worthwhile.

Vandelay
02-28-2009, 05:51 PM
When I first heard of this a couple hours ago I was pretty ticked because I thought the Chiefs had to of given up the 1st pick as well as some later or future picks. But getting Cassel and Vrable for a second rounder only is highway robbery, almost unbeleivable. So this just confirms my faith that Pioli is going to turn the Chiefs into a Championship team. The one downer on this is, I did believe Thigpen had earned the right to start this year. But in the end it's about the team, not one player. Plus it sure dosen't hurt to have 2 capable QB's. Can't wait to see what happens next.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 05:52 PM
Are we still celebrating?

nigeriannightmare
02-28-2009, 05:58 PM
I'm extremely curious what we gave up. Swap 1sts and a 3rd? A 2nd this year and a 1st in 2010? Our 1st this year?

EDIT: And there's no way we pick Curry at 3 now. We're either getting Raji or getting Cassel a LTOTF.

I think I heard that we are giving our second round draft pick and one next year depending on performance. Don't think that is a steep price to pay for a QB that's ready to start right away. I wonder how many more Patriots are gonna be lured this way before it's all said and done.

AussieChiefsFan
02-28-2009, 06:47 PM
yep, this could either be a great trade or a bad trade depending on whether we get to keep the #3.

Actually I bet we swapped 1st rounders and gave them 1 or 2 later round picks. If we end up with Alex Mack with a late 1st rounder, it wouldn't be terrible I suppose.

Kind of curious because what player at #3 would the Pats be chasing? Curry perhaps.I think this was a great trade! We finally have a star QB!:yahoo:

Xploder
02-28-2009, 06:49 PM
This pickup irritates me a lil giving up just a second rounder is great but how does this hurt our cap room for more FA. I would really hate to see Thigpen and Cassel go into camp and to know a qb making 15+ million for that year is riding a bench while our much cheaper QB is in the game. There is a QB contraversy in KC and since Thigpen lead our system last year it is his job to lose and lose it honestly. Competition is good one of these two QB's will show they are better. Thigpen really impressed me last season. Cassell impressed me also, but my hat at the moment tips a lil further to Thigpen. From a personal perspective I would like to see thigpen win the battle but form a financial standpoint I hope Cassell will. time will tell. It is a great second round pick up though.

Codac
02-28-2009, 06:51 PM
This was a heck of a move in my opinion. We got 2 quality players for just a 2nd rounder. Very nice.

Xploder
02-28-2009, 06:56 PM
either way I hope its thigpens spot to lose and cassell doesnt get it on merit and money because hes piolis boy I just hope for a real and true compitition

Xploder
02-28-2009, 06:57 PM
and next year being uncapped is not in stone yet.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 07:01 PM
either way I hope its thigpens spot to lose and cassell doesnt get it on merit and money because hes piolis boy I just hope for a real and true compitition

Hope all you want, but it isn't happening.

There's no competition next season. Cassel has the starting job, and he'll have to do very, very terrible to lose it.

texaschief
02-28-2009, 07:01 PM
I step away from my computer for 5 minutes and the entire franchise is completely different when I get back. nice.


I LOVE the trade. I honestly wouldn't have been too horribly against drafting Sanchez if he was still available in the 2nd and we landed Cassel AND Vrabel for our 2nd pick!! OUTSTANDING trade. Trading ONE pick for TWO players is also a big plus.

LOVE IT

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 07:03 PM
I step away from my computer for 5 minutes and the entire franchise is completely different when I get back. nice.


I LOVE the trade. I honestly wouldn't have been too horribly against drafting Sanchez if he was still available in the 2nd and we landed Cassel AND Vrabel for our 2nd pick!! OUTSTANDING trade. Trading ONE pick for TWO players is also a big plus.

LOVE IT

Didn't you say yesterday about Cassel that:

"At least we're not giving up any picks for him."

texaschief
02-28-2009, 07:07 PM
Didn't you say yesterday about Cassel that:

"At least we're not giving up any picks for him."

That was when everyone was thinking he'd require our first and another pick, plus we were already giving up a pick for Vrabel... so, yeah... I was saying that!! And, if we had given up a 1st, 4th, and 6th or so for those two players, I'd be EFFING LIVID!!!!

But two players including a perceived franchise QB for a 2nd rounder is a great trade... for both teams IMO.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 07:15 PM
That was when everyone was thinking he'd require our first and another pick, plus we were already giving up a pick for Vrabel... so, yeah... I was saying that!! And, if we had given up a 1st, 4th, and 6th or so for those two players, I'd be EFFING LIVID!!!!

But two players including a perceived franchise QB for a 2nd rounder is a great trade... for both teams IMO.

And haven't you written that you didn't want Cassel, even if he were a FA:

"I wouldn't take Cassell over Thigpen for THIS particular team. Cassell isn't mobile enough to stay alive behind this O-line."

texaschief
02-28-2009, 07:23 PM
And haven't you written that you didn't want Cassel, even if he were a FA:

"I wouldn't take Cassell over Thigpen for THIS particular team. Cassell isn't mobile enough to stay alive behind this O-line."

That's still true. He's going to get destroyed behind this line. Nothing has changed. Hopefully, that #3 pick will go to the O-line or we get some help in FA, but that still hasn't changed. I just think we got good value for the 2nd round pick.

I realize you're trying to call me out. You've been posting all this **** about "Herm lovers" and "Haley haters" trying to get me to bite, but you're just being a jackass. Just because I'm not drinking the kool-aid, doesn't mean I hate these guys. Haley is acting like the *** all his ex-players were saying he was and it's driving away players we DESPERATELY need on this team like Brian Waters and making the Chiefs an undesirable place to play for FA's. Maybe that's why all the players we're acquiring are via trade instead of willing signees.

KU4LIFE
02-28-2009, 07:27 PM
This pickup irritates me a lil giving up just a second rounder is great but how does this hurt our cap room for more FA. I would really hate to see Thigpen and Cassel go into camp and to know a qb making 15+ million for that year is riding a bench while our much cheaper QB is in the game. There is a QB contraversy in KC and since Thigpen lead our system last year it is his job to lose and lose it honestly. Competition is good one of these two QB's will show they are better. Thigpen really impressed me last season. Cassell impressed me also, but my hat at the moment tips a lil further to Thigpen. From a personal perspective I would like to see thigpen win the battle but form a financial standpoint I hope Cassell will. time will tell. It is a great second round pick up though.


Thigpen ran last years make shift system. Yes, he ran it well, but do you honestly think Haley, whose a offensive mind, is going to go with someone else system? Thigpen is going to have to run whatever Haley/Gailey decide on. Cassel obviously gets the coaches and expecially Pilio's approvel. No way we sign Cassel and have him sit.

We saw first hand why it is imperative to have two quality QB's on your roster with what happened to New England.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 07:34 PM
That's still true. He's going to get destroyed behind this line. Nothing has changed. Hopefully, that #3 pick will go to the O-line or we get some help in FA, but that still hasn't changed. I just think we got good value for the 2nd round pick.

I realize you're trying to call me out. You've been posting all this **** about "Herm lovers" and "Haley haters" trying to get me to bite, but you're just being a jackass. Just because I'm not drinking the kool-aid, doesn't mean I hate these guys. Haley is acting like the *** all his ex-players were saying he was and it's driving away players we DESPERATELY need on this team like Brian Waters and making the Chiefs an undesirable place to play for FA's. Maybe that's why all the players we're acquiring are via trade instead of willing signees.

I'm not trying to call you out. I'm just amazed that you can say a couple weeks ago that you didn't want Cassel even if he were a free agent, and could say last night that you were glad we didn't trade any picks to get Cassel, to suddenly turning around and saying that you love the fact that we trade for him.

Who knows what way your opinion will swing next?

Xploder
02-28-2009, 07:36 PM
I am not saying its bad to have to quality players at any givin position I want the best man who plays that position to get the nod to start not the one who gets the nod because hes closer to the GM. I am not doggin on any player I want an honest compitition and the best man for the job. Screw past pros or negitives with either player I want the best man for his position simple as that. niether has really proven that to me as of yet time will tell and we will see it by the end of pre-season

texaschief
02-28-2009, 07:44 PM
I'm not trying to call you out. I'm just amazed that you can say a couple weeks ago that you didn't want Cassel even if he were a free agent, and could say last night that you were glad we didn't trade any picks to get Cassel, to suddenly turning around and saying that you love the fact that we trade for him.

Who knows what way your opinion will swing next?

The only thing that changed was Cassel's perceived value/price. I stand by my statements before. Everyone thought he'd at the very least cost our first round pick. I wasn't interested in that trade. Cassel is still going to get destroyed behind this line. THAT hasn't changed either. What's so confusing?

We got good value. There's nothing contradicting in that statement.

Xploder
02-28-2009, 07:46 PM
I am glad to have the pick up dont get me wrong. I love the pick up. But it needs to be a fair compitition I dont want to play the in the patriots system I dont want to play in the cardinals system i want to play in a system that is best for the chiefs and a want the best QB for that system.

I know I want and want but i will probably not get what I want but I really am tired of heatring pioli talk about the patriot system when is he going to learn we are the chiefs.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 07:48 PM
The only thing that changed was Cassel's perceived value/price. I stand by my statements before. Everyone thought he'd at the very least cost our first round pick. I wasn't interested in that trade. Cassel is still going to get destroyed behind this line. THAT hasn't changed either. What's so confusing?

We got good value. There's nothing contradicting in that statement.

No. You said before, pretty much every time Cassel was brought up, that you didn't even want Cassel, even if he were a FA, because you though he'd cost too much in salary. I can bump the thread if you want it.

I just find it funny that you constantly mocked other people's talent evaluations, and here you are reversing yourself again on another player.

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 07:54 PM
No. You said before, pretty much every time Cassel was brought up, that you didn't even want Cassel, even if he were a FA, because you though he'd cost too much in salary. I can bump the thread if you want it.

I just find it funny that you constantly mocked other people's talent evaluations, and here you are reversing yourself again on another player.
Dang JM let it go...

Can a guy not change his outlook a lil....

Your so defensive and ready to slam every lil word someone says.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Dang JM let it go...

Can a guy not change his outlook a lil....

Your so defensive and ready to slam every lil word someone says.

texaschief's unrelenting threadjacking criticisms turned me into the monster I am now. I felt the need to reciprocate.

And you can't tell me he doesn't deserve it. He wanted to keep Herm. HERM!

chief31
02-28-2009, 08:07 PM
This is the best move made by the Chiefs in 10 years.:sign0098:

Id point to he Roaf or Green deals, myself. But the fruits of this deal have yet to be determined.

I don't love this trade right now. Because we didn't need a Qb.

However, it does look like we got a reasonable price on the deal.

I will miss the second round pick, unless another deal manages to replace it. And the O-line is currently in horrible shape and appears to be getting ignored again.

But that too has yet to be determined. Free agency is still fresh and the draft is still on the horizon. So there are still plenty of opportunities for us to wind-up addressing it.

Right now, the thing that bothers me is that we have lost one of our best opportunities to fill an empty starting spot, and essentially gotten a backup QB. (Thigpen will be demoted to back-up)

Basically, I am torn. I think we got a good deal. But I feel like we have sacrificed the positions of obvious need, for depth at another position.

Bike
02-28-2009, 08:08 PM
I bet a combination of LJ/Waters/Tony nets us at least another 2nd rounder.

Raji - 1st
OL - 2nd
LB - 3rd
Well, if Waters is part of the trade you may want to consider:
OL - 1st
OL - 2nd
OL - 3rd

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 08:10 PM
Well, if Waters is part of the trade you may want to consider:
OL - 1st
OL - 2nd
OL - 3rd

Ha. True, but I think Pioli goes Raji or Curry at 3 no matter what.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 08:15 PM
Id point to he Roaf or Green deals, myself. But the fruits of this deal have yet to be determined.

I don't love this trade right now. Because we didn't need a Qb.

However, it does look like we got a reasonable price on the deal.

I will miss the second round pick, unless another deal manages to replace it. And the O-line is currently in horrible shape and appears to be getting ignored again.

But that too has yet to be determined. Free agency is still fresh and the draft is still on the horizon. So there are still plenty of opportunities for us to wind-up addressing it.

Right now, the thing that bothers me is that we have lost one of our best opportunities to fill an empty starting spot, and essentially gotten a backup QB. (Thigpen will be demoted to back-up)

Basically, I am torn. I think we got a good deal. But I feel like we have sacrificed the positions of obvious need, for depth at another position.

Well, we did get a starting LB out of the trade too, which is the most we could have hoped for out the 2nd rounder, right?

chief31
02-28-2009, 08:22 PM
Well, we did get a starting LB out of the trade too, which is the most we could have hoped for out the 2nd rounder, right?

Yeah. We got a good price. But I don't think we needed LBs either. :D

Vraebel has the approximate value of a 6th rounder IMO. So it really doesn't factor in much to me.

balto
02-28-2009, 08:26 PM
I GOT IT!!!

Since the Bucs and Lions where trying to get a deal done for 1st rounders!!!

Lets turn around and trade Cassel to The Lions for there 1st pick overall?????

MAN how funny would that be? I would LOVE to be a Pats fan if that happened OUCH!

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 08:32 PM
Yeah. We got a good price. But I don't think we needed LBs either. :D

Vraebel has the approximate value of a 6th rounder IMO. So it really doesn't factor in much to me.

We didn't need LBs?! Are we going to go to a 3-1-7 for our defense next season?!

No 2nd round draft pick would play as good as Vrabel next season. He's one of the best 3-4 LBs in the league.

All of a sudden, we look like an 8-8 team. If the rest of FA and draft goes as well, a playoff berth isn't that crazy of a dream.

chief31
02-28-2009, 08:40 PM
I GOT IT!!!

Since the Bucs and Lions where trying to get a deal done for 1st rounders!!!

Lets turn around and trade Cassel to The Lions for there 1st pick overall?????

MAN how funny would that be? I would LOVE to be a Pats fan if that happened OUCH!

I doubt The Pats shot down the Lions' 1st round pick, for our second round pick.


We didn't need LBs?! Are we going to go to a 3-1-7 for our defense next season?!

No 2nd round draft pick would play as good as Vrabel next season. He's one of the best 3-4 LBs in the league.

All of a sudden, we look like an 8-8 team. If the rest of FA and draft goes as well, a playoff berth isn't that crazy of a dream.

I think Edwards, Thomas, DJ and Williams would have been fine with improved D-line play and the system change.

You somehow are seeing an 8-8 team. But I see a 2-14 team still.

We have gaping holes on both lines. And we are adding a QB and a LB? That makes us an 8-8 team?

Not yet.

chief31
02-28-2009, 08:44 PM
Your kidding right? We need atleast 2 more LBs to make up a 3/4 D and they need to have someone to rotate in and out with as they can't go every down. I know Vrabel needs someone to help out atleast one down or so. I hope we get Curry and I would really love to see us pick up Derrik Brooks from FA as he was released from Tampa. That would make our LB core awsome.


You can have the four best LBs to ever play the game, but they are gonna look like crap if they don't get good support from the d-line.

But, if you get great D-line play, then you can add four from the waiver wires to play at LB and they will look like the best bargains that you have ever seen.

Much like QB, very few LBs can really look good without good play from the line in front of them.

chief31
02-28-2009, 08:46 PM
Edwards is gone.




I think Edwards, Thomas, DJ and Williams would have been fine with improved D-line play and the system change.



I know. But he wouldn't have been, had I had my way.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 08:50 PM
I think Edwards, Thomas, DJ and Williams would have been fine with improved D-line play and the system change.

Um, really? Thomas and Williams are terrible, Edwards is washed up, and DJ is vastly underachieving. As a group, they're worse than USCs LB corps. We needed LBs this offseason not matter whether we drafted, traded, or got FAs.


You somehow are seeing an 8-8 team. But I see a 2-14 team still.

We have gaping holes on both lines. And we are adding a QB and a LB? That makes us an 8-8 team?

Not yet.

You forget that we also added a real coach. And sure we need more help on the lines. And we'll get it.

You'd be surprised how far a real GM and HC goes.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 08:54 PM
Part of our problem on D is if the DLine didn't close the holes and a decent back got past them, none of our LBs could compitantly react in time to stop them which is why the Titans ran for 300+ yds on us in 1 game.they need to work in tandem plus going to the 3-4 will make that change as 4 LBs can close the gap faster than 3 in a zone. Don't get me wrong, we definately need to address the D-Line and I think Pioli will but we still have Hali and Dorsey on the line , both were All Americans in College I have to believe that just because they came to the Pro level they automatically suck.

Yep. Although even I'd admit that part of our LB problem was the Cover 2.

We're not even close to done in FA. We've got OL and DE help coming.

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 09:02 PM
I doubt The Pats shot down the Lions' 1st round pick, for our second round pick.


Yes they would've. The financial implications of taking a 1st overall pick would have swamped the Pats Cap space for this season as well as next season in terms of signing their young talent already under contract this year to prevent them from going to Free Agency. THe amount of money the rookie pool demands for the first ten picks in the draft is absurd and with New England's limited cap room as it is it would have been fiscally irresponsible to trade for a pick that high in the draft.

Our 2nd round pick at 34 is practically considered a late round first round draft choice where the top prospects on a teams draft board are still going to be avalible. coupled with the fact that the Pats are aging as well the ability for them to have 3 second round draft choice picks is a huge move in stabilizing their roster.

Three7s
02-28-2009, 09:02 PM
Yeah. We got a good price. But I don't think we needed LBs either. :D

Vraebel has the approximate value of a 6th rounder IMO. So it really doesn't factor in much to me.
You have to be kidding me man. Our LBs COULDN'T TACKLE AT ALL! Can you say the D-line is responsible for how bad the LBs are when they miss tackle after tackle over and over? We need both and we're in the process of getting both.

I realize a lot of people liked Thigpen, which is why some people aren't as WOW'd by this trade. I didn't think Thigpen was too bad, but it's clear that Pioli and Haley are convinced that he just isn't good enough to operate a system other than the spread. However, this presents an opportunity. We could trade Thigpen and get a 2nd rounder possibly. Or just keep him as backup.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 09:05 PM
You have to be kidding me man. Our LBs COULDN'T TACKLE AT ALL! Can you say the D-line is responsible for how bad the LBs are when they miss tackle after tackle over and over? We need both and we're in the process of getting both.

I realize a lot of people liked Thigpen, which is why some people aren't as WOW'd by this trade. I didn't think Thigpen was too bad, but it's clear that Pioli and Haley are convinced that he just isn't good enough to operate a system other than the spread. However, this presents an opportunity. We could trade Thigpen and get a 2nd rounder possibly. Or just keep him as backup.

I say keep him. He'd be the best backup in the league. Hell extend his contract, and make sure he's on the team for the next few years. Use him in Wildcat style gadget plays and as a slot receiver.

balto
02-28-2009, 09:06 PM
We didn't need LBs?! Are we going to go to a 3-1-7 for our defense next season?!

No 2nd round draft pick would play as good as Vrabel next season. He's one of the best 3-4 LBs in the league.

All of a sudden, we look like an 8-8 team. If the rest of FA and draft goes as well, a playoff berth isn't that crazy of a dream.


Now that would be funny..... You know we don't have the D backs for that :yahoo:

chief31
02-28-2009, 09:07 PM
Um, really? Thomas and Williams are terrible, Edwards is washed up, and DJ is vastly underachieving. As a group, they're worse than USCs LB corps. We needed LBs this offseason not matter whether we drafted, traded, or got FAs.



You forget that we also added a real coach. And sure we need more help on the lines. And we'll get it.

You'd be surprised how far a real GM and HC goes.

Like I said. LBs are made to look good, or bad, by the play of the linemen in front of them. If the linemen are hampering the blockers, then LBs don't get blocked.

That didn't happen last season. So the LBs that had always been good elsewhere looked like crap.

And while I was among the loudest to scream for Herms head, I have very little faith in Haley.

The Arizona Cardinals? Are we seriously trying to emulate The Arizona Cardinals?

Even with their highly overachieving playoff run, they were 12-8, having played in a division with The 49ers, Rams and clipped-winged Seahawks.

I'm not trying to dismiss Haley. But I definitely have my doubts. Same as I do have some hopes for him.

chief31
02-28-2009, 09:10 PM
You have to be kidding me man. Our LBs COULDN'T TACKLE AT ALL! Can you say the D-line is responsible for how bad the LBs are when they miss tackle after tackle over and over? We need both and we're in the process of getting both.

I realize a lot of people liked Thigpen, which is why some people aren't as WOW'd by this trade. I didn't think Thigpen was too bad, but it's clear that Pioli and Haley are convinced that he just isn't good enough to operate a system other than the spread. However, this presents an opportunity. We could trade Thigpen and get a 2nd rounder possibly. Or just keep him as backup.

The vast majority of missed tackles that I watched from our LB corp were while being blocked. Either by the opponents' offense, the defensive linemen, or by Jared Page.

It is especially difficult to make a tackle, when you have Tank Tyler in your lap.

Beyond that, everyone misses a few. That's what they did. They missed a few.

Coach
02-28-2009, 09:21 PM
Yes they would've. The financial implications of taking a 1st overall pick would have swamped the Pats Cap space for this season as well as next season in terms of signing their young talent already under contract this year to prevent them from going to Free Agency. THe amount of money the rookie pool demands for the first ten picks in the draft is absurd and with New England's limited cap room as it is it would have been fiscally irresponsible to trade for a pick that high in the draft.

Our 2nd round pick at 34 is practically considered a late round first round draft choice where the top prospects on a teams draft board are still going to be avalible. coupled with the fact that the Pats are aging as well the ability for them to have 3 second round draft choice picks is a huge move in stabilizing their roster.

Excellent points. This trade was about clearing cap room for the Pats. At the end of the day, they cleared $17mm in cap room and turned a 7th round pick into the 34th pick. They need this money to re-sign some players. Also, the 2nd round is a great place to be picking. There is not that much drop off in talent and those players are a heck of a lot cheaper to sign. If the Pats wanted our 1st rd pick, they probably could have had it. But the 3rd pick is going to get $30mm guaranteed money plus approx $5mm in salary. It would have eaten up the cap room they just cleared with this trade.

This truly was a win-win trade. I'm just glad the Chiefs were one of the winners instead of the Lions or Bucs.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 09:21 PM
The vast majority of missed tackles that I watched from our LB corp were while being blocked. Either by the opponents' offense, the defensive linemen, or by Jared Page.

It is especially difficult to make a tackle, when you have Tank Tyler in your lap.

Beyond that, everyone misses a few. That's what they did. They missed a few.

Oh, I agree that our OL, DL, and FS sucked. But our LBs did too. We need to replace most of the personnel on the team. And again, we are. We're two days into FA. Relax. Pioli has everything scoped out.

chief31
02-28-2009, 09:26 PM
Oh, I agree that our OL, DL, and FS sucked. But our LBs did too. We need to replace most of the personnel on the team. And again, we are. We're two days into FA. Relax. Pioli has everything scoped out.


Why would you tell me to relax? Was I flying off the handle there?

I have been dealing with Herm Edwards the past three years. A huge load has been lifted.:D

We just disagree about how severe the problems are, and the specific areas that deserve the most attention.

ks-surveyor
02-28-2009, 09:35 PM
I love it. PS, Huard has already been released.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 09:38 PM
This truly was a win-win trade. I'm just glad the Chiefs were one of the winners instead of the Lions or Bucs.

That.

:sign0098:

Chief Tyler
02-28-2009, 09:47 PM
On a side note, all of the different boards/blogs I've looked at is full of angry Donk fans. 2 months in and 90% of them are PO'ed with McDaniels and the upper management, many of them are saying they'll take their support to where Shanny and Cutler end up. The other 10% are in complete denial, saying that the Bucs approached them and Denver said no.

I almost feel sorry for them, but in the end I'm heartless monster and would much rather gloat about it.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 09:50 PM
Why would you tell me to relax? Was I flying off the handle there?

I have been dealing with Herm Edwards the past three years. A huge load has been lifted.:D

We just disagree about how severe the problems are, and the specific areas that deserve the most attention.

OK.

I agree that we need to upgrade our FS, DL, and OL sometime this offseason.

I just can't tell whether you think we will or won't.

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 09:58 PM
Free Agency is a long period of time in the off season. Just because the Chiefs havent taken any drastic measures (Cassel and Vrabel excluded) in terms of sigining free agent talent doesnt mean they are turning a blind eye to it.

Remember this about the Free Agency time table:

Restricted free agents signing period: from February 27 to April 17

Unrestricted free agents signing period: from February 27 to July 22 (or the first scheduled day of the first NFL training camp, whichever is later)

Franchise players signing period: from February 27 through the 10th week of the season

That is quite a bit of time for the Chiefs to methodically approach the market and sign what they need. Now its frustrating to some that we aren't signing Ray Lewis and Co. but once again I must reiterate that Pioli/Hunt made it clear that they were never interested in signing big name high dollar players like Haynesworth and so forth or bull rushing the market and signing everyone like the Broncos did. So while it may hurt our egos and dampen some peoples trust in the mindset of the Chiefs Front office remember that there are more players to come in the coming days, weeks, and months.

chief31
02-28-2009, 10:02 PM
OK.

I agree that we need to upgrade our FS, DL, and OL sometime this offseason.

I just can't tell whether you think we will or won't.

I am on the fence.

I just don't believe that we are capable. There are only so many positions that we will be able to fill.

If Waters gets dealt (Please God, no.) then we currently have one solid O-lineman. (As long as you are one who has faith in Albert. I do.)

And finding a quality pass-rushing DE is already one of the hardest things to do. It's even harder when you are also trying to fill four starting O-line positions.

I realize that Herm and CP are gone. But I can't completely trust the new 'regime' until I get to see what they emphasize during the off-season.

Those who know me, have no question about what I want to see addressed. And, until I see it, I am gonna be worried that I never will.

ktmrider
02-28-2009, 10:13 PM
I really am tired of heatring pioli talk about the patriot system when is he going to learn we are the chiefs.

I have no problem with Pioli talking of or implementing the "Patriot way". It has earned the man some very nice rings and I have no doubt that it will in the future as well, or would you rather stick to the "Chiefs way" of the last decade?

yashi
02-28-2009, 10:21 PM
And finding a quality pass-rushing DE is already one of the hardest things to do. It's even harder when you are also trying to fill four starting O-line positions.

Our pass rushers will come in the form of OLBs in the 3-4, which will likely be Hali and Vrabel. I think Hali will do well rushing off the edge in this scheme and offenses will be left guessing which one is going to rush the passer every play.

chief31
02-28-2009, 10:35 PM
Our pass rushers will come in the form of OLBs in the 3-4, which will likely be Hali and Vrabel. I think Hali will do well rushing off the edge in this scheme and offenses will be left guessing which one is going to rush the passer every play.

Oh yeah. Forgot about the 3-4 switch.

But I think Hali lacks the speed and agility to play OLB.

I could, however, see him playing ILB in a 3-4.

yashi
02-28-2009, 10:48 PM
Oh yeah. Forgot about the 3-4 switch.

But I think Hali lacks the speed and agility to play OLB.

I could, however, see him playing ILB in a 3-4.
I doubt he has the tackling ability to play ILB, and he wouldn't get to use his pass rushing moves either. At OLB he would get to play up on the line. I think it'd be the easiest transition for him. 3-4 OLB is effectively a glorified 4-3 DE that drops back sometimes. Hali is roughly the same size as Merriman, and ran a 4.75 40 to Merriman's 4.66 (which was about 30 lbs ago for him). I think Hali would be fine though. He really doesn't have the size or run stopping ability to play 3-4 DE.

I think our 2 best tacklers will need to play ILB, which I think would be DJ and Curry (if we draft him). Because DJ, Curry, and Vrabel are all very versatile, I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them switching around a lot to keep the offense guessing.

Tambroso
02-28-2009, 11:38 PM
With the second round pick the Chiefs get 2 starters. The chiefs get 2 players that understand what it takes to win. This means that they can skip Sanchez and Stafford with the third pick. either an OT or LB can be picked.

jap1
02-28-2009, 11:40 PM
Our pass rushers will come in the form of OLBs in the 3-4, which will likely be Hali and Vrabel. I think Hali will do well rushing off the edge in this scheme and offenses will be left guessing which one is going to rush the passer every play.

Hali would do fine rushing off the edge ... if he loses about 10-15 lbs. The problem is that an OLB doesnt rush the QB on every play. He is a LB first. Which means he has pass coverage and open field tackling responsibilities.

Hali hasnt dropped back into coverage or made many open field tackles in his career. And that would be his primary responsibility. Those are the things that make good LBs. Look at James Harrison, one of the best OLBs. Yeah he makes sacks, but what was his biggest contribution to the Superbowl ... his INT.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 11:41 PM
And to think that this all started when Pollard took out Brady.

BTW what do all you new guys think of the site?

Canada
02-28-2009, 11:56 PM
And to think that this all started when Pollard took out Brady.

BTW what do all you new guys think of the site?

I like it, I just wish they had a member map that everyone could enjoy!! :D

tammietailgator
03-01-2009, 12:05 AM
This is indeed some good news!:bananen_smilies046:

Wow what a weekend! Today new QB, tomorrow KU will beat MU!:yahoo:

AkChief49
03-01-2009, 12:20 AM
Working nights. wow! there were rumblings yesterday about this deal. I did not want it, but am starting to wrap my brain around it. Especially for the second rounder and a conditional, next year. Both QB's had "similar" numbers: Matt- 21 td's/11 int's and Tyler had 18 td's/ 12 int's. The surrounding cast that Cassel had is the one thing that bothers me, and several others on this board. But bottom line is he has won! rumors are floating now that maybe we still might deal Tyler to Tampa? oh, I wonder what # Matt will be wearing.... most certainly not 16.

tammietailgator
03-01-2009, 12:24 AM
Working nights. wow! there were rumblings yesterday about this deal. I did not want it, but am starting to wrap my brain around it. Especially for the second rounder and a conditional, next year. Both QB's had "similar" numbers: Matt- 21 td's/11 int's and Tyler had 18 td's/ 12 int's. The surrounding cast that Cassel had is the one thing that bothers me, and several others on this board. But bottom line is he has won! rumors are floating now that maybe we still might deal Tyler to Tampa? oh, I wonder what # Matt will be wearing.... most certainly not 16.

I think we need and to keep Thig as our backup! He deserves it and I am selfish. I think he did a great job, even though we did not win... we started with a failed line and a couple glass QB's - motivation was lost and what Thig did do for the team was his best. I believe he will be a great QB someday with the right team and hope all the best for him.

AkChief49
03-01-2009, 12:31 AM
I think we need and to keep Thig as our backup! He deserves it and I am selfish. I think he did a great job, even though we did not win... we started with a failed line and a couple glass QB's - motivation was lost and what Thig did do for the team was his best. I believe he will be a great QB someday with the right team and hope all the best for him.
I would like to keep him also, but in this business if the value is there, say we get back a 2nd pick for him(probably will not happen, but who knows-some think Haynesworth is worth a Million!) we still need o-line men to protect the new guy. He's used to a better caliber line than what we have right now.

OTR Chiefs fan
03-01-2009, 12:34 AM
I LOVE IT!! It's refreshing to see a management team take some positive steps forward and makes some moves that can really make a difference, instead of the past routine of watching all these other teams get the free agents with potential while we just try to make do with what we have. I was in a wait and see mode with the change of ownership and GM to see if it was going to be another chapter of Lamar and Carl, but I must say that I'm impressed that Clark and Pioli are not only willing to step out and make some moves early in free agency, but that also make moves that make sense and has the potential to make us competitive in a hurry and for a long time to come. It certainly indicates to me that they GET IT and are willing to take steps to produce a team that us long time dedicated fans deserve. Kudos Clark and Scott!! :yahoo::D:bananen_smilies008::character0078::chara cter00238:

tammietailgator
03-01-2009, 12:36 AM
I would like to keep him also, but in this business if the value is there, say we get back a 2nd pick for him(probably will not happen, but who knows-some think Haynesworth is worth a Million!) we still need o-line men to protect the new guy. He's used to a better caliber line than what we have right now.

I agree... Thig had a way of getting thiggy with it and stepping out of the pocket when the protection was not there... Not sure if Cassel (because I never followed him) can do the same. Which will mean we need to protect him like he doesn't step out.

AkChief49
03-01-2009, 12:43 AM
The trade was Cassell and Vrabel to Chiefs , 1 second round 34th pick over al for them goes to Pats. Nothing more period. No conditionals or anything we have them on our roster and owe nothing paid in frackin full baby w00t!my bad, I thought I had read a conditional next year. yes that's even better:bananen_smilies046:

DT14PRIEST
03-01-2009, 01:15 AM
I would like to keep him also, but in this business if the value is there, say we get back a 2nd pick for him(probably will not happen, but who knows-some think Haynesworth is worth a Million!) we still need o-line men to protect the new guy. He's used to a better caliber line than what we have right now.

He was actually sacked 47 times (48 times for the Pats total allowed counting Brady's game ender). Compared to Thigpen who was sacked 26 times (Plus the 11 on Huard and Croyle adds to 37 for the Chiefs) our lines were comparable in terms of badness.

Thipen rushed 62 times for 380 yards while Cassel rushed 72 times for 270 yards. The per avg. is down on Cassel but then again Thigpen was a RB/WR/PR in High School before converting QB at Costal Carolina so I'd expect his totals to be higher.

Never the less, Cassel is as mobile as Thigpen is so he should do just fine in KC.

AussieChiefsFan
03-01-2009, 01:31 AM
47 times!:character00265:

DT14PRIEST
03-01-2009, 01:45 AM
That almost seems unreal that we did better in that category than the Pats did yet they had 11 wins......

Pats had the 10th overall best defense in the NFL at the end of the Regular season

Chiefs were 31st

:(

DT14PRIEST
03-01-2009, 01:51 AM
Defense wins Championships ;) .

Preaching to the choir :11:

tammietailgator
03-01-2009, 02:31 AM
In the highlights of Matt NFL Network was showing how he goes through the steps of making sure that he has no options open to him before he makes the decision to take off and he actually reminded me of Young of the 49ers when he did it. He checked off on his first option then over the middle and to the right to his last then had a alley way in front of him that he decided was the right thing to take and scored a TD off the play. If he can make those type of game time decisions consistantly then we have something here.
Sorry to say but Thipen would sometimes think run before he would actually go through the options or maybe just didn't get the time to do the proper motions as our O-Line was not performing up to standard. :bananen_smilies046:

Thig is young though and if we are smart... we would keep him as a backup and turn him into our future star QB. He does have the ability to scan the options and I think we seen that. Imagine what he can do with more experience and a D line.

tammietailgator
03-01-2009, 03:00 AM
You do mean Oline I hope? At any rate I am all about getting what is best for the team, if Pioli and Haley think he is a good back up to our future Franchise QB Matt Cassell then so be it but if they can get something we need now as a starter or draft picks in the first round or early second I would be happy there as well. Which ever is best for the team as a whole.

Yep! Typo... I meant Offensive Line. Thanks! :D

chiefsrulebr1
03-01-2009, 03:52 AM
Hey this is all I need to say, we got Cassel and Vabrel and we pretty much gave up nothing, obviously these new coaches are pretty much telling Herm Edwards, getting players that nobody knows doesn't win games, getting players that actually know what they are doing is trying to win.

Oh come on like anybody actually thought that Herm Edwards was trying to win last year, seriously, before the Chiefs signed them did any one here really know any of the players names beforehand, of course not, I didn't neither, Herm Edwards was always for giving the little guy a shot, come on Herm, this isn't a charity case here, this is the NFL where if you don't get your name out there, you shouldn't even be allowed to try out, Herm only felt this way because he too was undrafted and unknown, well I got to say this to you Herm, who the hell cares what you did in the past with the Eagles, this isn't the eages this is the KANSAS CITY CHIEFS baby, and don't you ever try and take that away from us ever again

Texas #1 Chiefs Fan
03-01-2009, 04:04 AM
I think we are moving in the right direction. Now that we got a QB with winning experience, We need to look towards a DE and O Line.If you don't get pass protection you won't score. With out pass rushing you can't stop ball movement.

Greg_McMillan
03-01-2009, 07:13 AM
I believe we have two good QBs however, I think neither of them will shine for the fact we do not have a offensive line also explaining the reason for no production from our HBs. After viewing all the tape on the Chiefs. The problem is not the QB, you have to be able to give any pro level QB at least 4-5 seconds to make a decision. So that is less than a 1 second read on a 5 wide out spread look.. can you do that or can you ask any pro level QB to do that...fat chance. Well I guess you can if you use the wopping 5 seconds that the Chiefs O-line gives ya on one receiver and that is called a 1 receiver lock to Tony or Bowe, about the best we have, for which if I am a defensive player I have a easy interception cause I know where he is going to throw in less than 5 seconds, Therefore I am the intercepted QB who will untimately get the blame resulting in a poor QB rating and a new job. Goodness people, We get ourselves wrapped around QBs..give me a O-line and then I can QB. I apologize for being long winded. I analize like a coach. The BIG picture.

Mvbigtuna
03-01-2009, 09:36 AM
Longtime Patriots season ticket holder.

The Chiefs hosed us. Vrabel has little left and would have been cut IMO, but cassel is the real deal. He is smart, accurate, and a very good athlete.

The Chiefs are now a major threat in that division. Cassel might be the best a QB in that division. I expect a probowl season out of him, although they need a upgrAde in speed at wr. Congrats Chiefs fans

Canada
03-01-2009, 10:01 AM
Longtime Patriots season ticket holder.

The Chiefs hosed us. Vrabel has little left and would have been cut IMO, but cassel is the real deal. He is smart, accurate, and a very good athlete.

The Chiefs are now a major threat in that division. Cassel might be the best a QB in that division. I expect a probowl season out of him, although they need a upgrAde in speed at wr. Congrats Chiefs fans

I think most are hoping that Vrabel will help out our young guys with the transition to a 3-4!!

I hope Cassel can lead us outta the basement. He has looked pretty goodfrom what I have seen from him. I will go for any guy who beat up on the fubbalo bills twice a year!! :bananen_smilies046:

:welcome: to the Crowd!! :bananen_smilies046:

spiman
03-01-2009, 11:09 AM
:bananen_smilies046: What a move... I cannot wait till we draft.. :sign0098:

balto
03-01-2009, 11:53 AM
Lets hope we still draft Chase Patton in the 7th and turn him into the next Cassel and end up trading him for a 2nd rounder hehehe

Chief Tyler
03-01-2009, 12:00 PM
Longtime Patriots season ticket holder.

The Chiefs hosed us. Vrabel has little left and would have been cut IMO, but cassel is the real deal. He is smart, accurate, and a very good athlete.

The Chiefs are now a major threat in that division. Cassel might be the best a QB in that division. I expect a probowl season out of him, although they need a upgrAde in speed at wr. Congrats Chiefs fans

I still love the guy, but we could send Thigs to the Cardinals in exchange for Boldin, sounds like Warner won't be around much longer! Just need a little Pioli magic.

DT14PRIEST
03-01-2009, 02:28 PM
I still love the guy, but we could send Thigs to the Cardinals in exchange for Boldin, sounds like Warner won't be around much longer! Just need a little Pioli magic.

I think the last thing Anquan wants is to come back to Haley and be a Chief.

He's not worth the $10million he's asking for anyways.

kc247
03-01-2009, 04:45 PM
I agreed with u. I think there is nothing wrong with the quarterback we have now. Thats the reason why we had to go to the spread offense cause we couldn't protect the qb. If we don't get a o-line then Matt is going to have a hard way to go

warcrychief
03-01-2009, 05:28 PM
I agreed with u. I think there is nothing wrong with the quarterback we have now. Thats the reason why we had to go to the spread offense cause we couldn't protect the qb. If we don't get a o-line then Matt is going to have a hard way to go
Last year he did have a hard time. He was sacked 47 times. Thigpen was only sacked 26 times.

HokieChief 09
03-01-2009, 06:52 PM
I love this deal to the fullest. A second round pick for a veteran in Vrabel, and a potential franchise QB with Cassel. Great trade. Keep doin' what you do Pioli. He's doing a great job.

AussieChiefsFan
03-01-2009, 07:45 PM
I love this deal to the fullest. A second round pick for a veteran in Vrabel, and a potential franchise QB with Cassel. Great trade. Keep doin' what you do Pioli. He's doing a great job.I love it too. I now think that the chiefs are on their way to an eventual Super Bowl appearance in about 5-10 years!

Something i'm also excited about is that the Chiefs are Hosting Super Bowl XLIX (49) in 2015!

Coach
03-01-2009, 09:48 PM
Last year he did have a hard time. He was sacked 47 times. Thigpen was only sacked 26 times.

How many games did Thigpen play?

Pro_Angler
03-01-2009, 09:56 PM
How many games did Thigpen play?


Quote=coach..
One of the few players today that I'm glad the Chiefs didn't get.Quote
__________________



Still glad we "didnt get cassel"???
I am kinda mixed about it. I like Thig and feel bad for him.

jmlamerson
03-01-2009, 10:12 PM
I am kinda mixed about it. I like Thig and feel bad for him.

Actually, Thigpen wins in a way. He's a FA in 2010. If he looks good in preseason, runs some gadget plays and (hopefully) mops up a few games this year, getting a decent-to-big size contract in 2010 isn't out of the question.

Pro_Angler
03-01-2009, 10:17 PM
good read on trade and about waters situation:

A Chiefs State of the Union Address After a Busy Weekend NFL Gridiron Gab (http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2009/03/01/a-chiefs-state-of-the-union-address-after-a-busy-weekend/)

jmlamerson
03-01-2009, 10:20 PM
good read on trade and about waters situation:

A Chiefs State of the Union Address After a Busy Weekend NFL Gridiron Gab (http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2009/03/01/a-chiefs-state-of-the-union-address-after-a-busy-weekend/)

Expresses my feelings on the Waters situation perfectly.

Canada
03-01-2009, 11:29 PM
good read on trade and about waters situation:

A Chiefs State of the Union Address After a Busy Weekend NFL Gridiron Gab (http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2009/03/01/a-chiefs-state-of-the-union-address-after-a-busy-weekend/)

Good article :bananen_smilies046:

djlewis0714
03-01-2009, 11:58 PM
How do we really know if this cassel guy is gonna be good??? and we basically gave up donnie edwards for mike vrabel, donnie is 2 times faster then him, all vrabel can do is blitz and then play tight end sometimes I really think we have a lot of wholes to fill still on both sides of the line and need some linebackers I hope a lot more is done in free agency

Coach
03-01-2009, 11:58 PM
Quote=coach..
One of the few players today that I'm glad the Chiefs didn't get.Quote
__________________



Still glad we "didnt get cassel"???
I am kinda mixed about it. I like Thig and feel bad for him.

I didn't want Cassell because of the price tag. We got him on the cheap. As I said to the last person who pointed out this post. There are plenty of players that I wouldn't want us to trade for....Unless the price was right. In this case it was IMO.

tornadospotter
03-02-2009, 12:32 AM
After being gone on a family weekend function, I did hear about the trade, but not the details. Log on to the Crowd and have a record amount of unread post! My computer lets me read thru 300 of them before it, or the site overloads. Can not get back on, for what ever reasons, lost about 600+ unread posts, skipping thru and trying to catch up, I think I can now comment on this.
It was a good trade deal, because I can now believe that we are not going to draft a QB in the early rounds of this draft! Plus we got a LB that may lead our Defense. I do not like the loss of that 2 RD pick, I hope it is worth it, I am not big yet on Cassel, because he really is as unproven as Thig, he had a better foundation to win than, Thig had last year. Time will tell, Let us all hope it is winning times.:11:

DT14PRIEST
03-02-2009, 12:59 AM
How do we really know if this cassel guy is gonna be good??? and we basically gave up donnie edwards for mike vrabel, donnie is 2 times faster then him, all vrabel can do is blitz and then play tight end sometimes I really think we have a lot of wholes to fill still on both sides of the line and need some linebackers I hope a lot more is done in free agency

This is the million dollar question. In reality we have no way of knowing with any player you trade for, draft, or sign in FA if they will pan out like we hope they do.

Some people expected greatness from the likes of Surtain, Edwards, and Croyle and we were left with nothing more then a tarnished reputation and back to back failure's of a season. WE expected greatness from Ryan Simms and were rewarded with nothing.

When we pick up players either guys like Cassel or drafted rookies there is a caluclated risk in the decision that is being weighed by the guy in charge (Pioli). We as fans can only go by the track record of success for both Pioli and Cassel and hope it translates into wins for the Kansas City Chiefs.

And, once more, we will do more in free agency. We already made one off the bigger moves this off season with our block buster trade. Expect the Chiefs to tackle the free agency methodically and not rush for the highest dollar players avalible. There are still some quality players on the market without a home. Remember Free Agency lasts months, not days.

KCINNYC
03-02-2009, 01:49 AM
As this is my first post, I just want to say hello to all my fellow Chiefs fans before anything. I am so thankful to have found this site, having been born and raised in Overland Park and now living in New York City where its nothing but Giants this and Yankees that. Hello all, I am so glad to be here.

The fact that we got this trade done for a second round pick is so unbelievable, it almost stinks of blackmail. Maybe Pioli in his Godfather type way of doing things forced the Patriots hand by knowing the Patriots darkest secrets? (The least of them being illegal filming of teams practices I am sure:) Wasn't Denver ready to trade Cutler? Didn't the Patriots want TWO first round picks? To reference the movie, Mo Green was shot in the eye because he woudn't be bought out...(just a joke and radical idea) I am just so happy.

Hello again all, I am a future regular on the site.
GO CHIEFS!

warcrychief
03-02-2009, 02:47 AM
As this is my first post, I just want to say hello to all my fellow Chiefs fans before anything. I am so thankful to have found this site, having been born and raised in Overland Park and now living in New York City where its nothing but Giants this and Yankees that. Hello all, I am so glad to be here.

The fact that we got this trade done for a second round pick is so unbelievable, it almost stinks of blackmail. Maybe Pioli in his Godfather type way of doing things forced the Patriots hand by knowing the Patriots darkest secrets? (The least of them being illegal filming of teams practices I am sure:) Wasn't Denver ready to trade Cutler? Didn't the Patriots want TWO first round picks? To reference the movie, Mo Green was shot in the eye because he woudn't be bought out...(just a joke and radical idea) I am just so happy.

Hello again all, I am a future regular on the site.
GO CHIEFS!

:welcome: kcinnyc

peekaboo224
03-02-2009, 08:23 AM
It is nice to see that big changes are being made in KC. All of these moves are for the positive - getting rid of Herm and Peterson and now moving on picking up players that can help us win. Cassel did a great job filling in for Brady - hopefully he can continue having success and make the Chiefs a playoff team. I can't believe they only had to give up a 2nd round pick for Cassel and Vrabel - what a deal! Can't wait for 09 to start and see how much better they are.

yashi
03-02-2009, 10:37 AM
I am thinking of doing a new season on Madden and making the roster changes to make up our team we have now on it. Maybe it will tell me just how good or bad we really are ?:band::band23::bananen_smilies083::bananen_smilie s054::satana:

I put Cassel on the Chiefs and was doing some offensive practice against the Broncos with him. :D He is rated an 85 after the latest roster updates.

Pro_Angler
03-02-2009, 11:11 AM
I didn't want Cassell because of the price tag. We got him on the cheap. As I said to the last person who pointed out this post. There are plenty of players that I wouldn't want us to trade for....Unless the price was right. In this case it was IMO.


I agree for the price tag it's worth a shot and saving #3 pick for something we need.

Texas #1 Chiefs Fan
03-02-2009, 12:48 PM
I see your point. I thought our defensive backs have done a decent job. The problem i thought we had was we gave the QB way to much time to thow the ball. Now we have a Linebacker that can really penetrate. We need someone who can penetrate on the outside. Either way we are looking better than the last few years already. GO CHIEFS!!!!!

hardcorechiefsfan
03-02-2009, 05:09 PM
Ok, if we traded TG to the patriots, he couldn't of gone to a better team since I already love them.

Chief4Ever&Ever
03-02-2009, 06:02 PM
Getting both of those players for a 2nd round pick I agree is down right fishy! As a Chief fan I am all for it and could not be more excited about what Pioli is doing for our team!!

We now need to focus on protecting Cassell and giving him some time!! He has way more potential that Thiggy!! I can't wait for the season to start!!!!!!!

Bring it on!!!!!!

chief31
03-02-2009, 06:49 PM
Hali would do fine rushing off the edge ... if he loses about 10-15 lbs. The problem is that an OLB doesnt rush the QB on every play. He is a LB first. Which means he has pass coverage and open field tackling responsibilities.

Hali hasnt dropped back into coverage or made many open field tackles in his career. And that would be his primary responsibility. Those are the things that make good LBs. Look at James Harrison, one of the best OLBs. Yeah he makes sacks, but what was his biggest contribution to the Superbowl ... his INT.

Odds are that they don't make it to that game if he (Harrison) isn't so successful in pass rushing.


He was actually sacked 47 times (48 times for the Pats total allowed counting Brady's game ender). Compared to Thigpen who was sacked 26 times (Plus the 11 on Huard and Croyle adds to 37 for the Chiefs) our lines were comparable in terms of badness.

Thipen rushed 62 times for 380 yards while Cassel rushed 72 times for 270 yards. The per avg. is down on Cassel but then again Thigpen was a RB/WR/PR in High School before converting QB at Costal Carolina so I'd expect his totals to be higher.

Never the less, Cassel is as mobile as Thigpen is so he should do just fine in KC.

Note that That Pats O-line was fifth best in Sacks Allowed in '07.

The difference between '07 and '08 was the QB.

And the result was going from fifth best, to fifth worst.

Is it more likely that the blockers just suddenly decided to suck, or that the new QB struggled with decision making and held the ball too much?

For The Chiefs' O-line, the major difference was going to a gimmick-heavy spread offense and a forced QB change.

The Pats' O-line is far better than ours.


Even though I appreciate the enthusiasm you have for the moment andtelling Herm the Worm to stick it up his a$$ basically, I have to say that it was Dick Vermiel that built the team he had when he came to be our Head Coach and it was also Dick Vermiel that told Carl Petersen that we should give Herm the Worm the Head Coaching job. I'm not sure where you believe that Herm got the players from when he started here but even with the team Vermiel built The Worm couldn't do anything with it. The decision to give the Worm the team as HC was done so because the Worm actually played on the very same Eagles team that Dick Vermiel built and took to the Superbowl to lose the the Frackin LA Haiders. If my memory serves me the Worm was a walk on as Vermiel allowed people to actually go into Veterans Stadium and do a try out so Dick could try to turn what was a sad losing team that was on a losing streak that was actually worst than our Chiefs have been on. Now in present day I do believe like you that the Worm was actually trying to lose because he wanted to get his franchise QB by securing the #1 pick in the draft and using it to secure Stafford. Well little did he know that when it was all done and said that Clark didn't want anything done in that same manner, Carl Petersen had issues with Clark Hunt wanting to dismiss the Worm so he resigned and in comes Scott Pioli and we are now at thepoint where we have 2 players from a team that has been on an incredible run in the new millenium winning I think it's 4 Superbowls out of the last 6 years. The reason they won those championships is because Scott Pioli himself was the Patriots GM and now he is here doing it for us. Thanks for feeling the need to vent on The Worm but don't forget to blame Carl 'The King' Petersen for actually allowing the Worm to get away with his losing ways for the last 2 seasons just to aquire as many draft picks as they could simply so the Chiefs wouldn't need to spend money in the Free Agency. I am soooooooooooo glad that regime is done and gone forever. :bananen_smilies046::drunkhb: :11:

Vermiels recommendation was for, then Chiefs OC, Al Saubders.

He is friends with Herm. But he did not give his recommendation for Herm.

Once the decision was made, he did put the usual positive spin on it. But that is to be expected.

nigeriannightmare
03-02-2009, 07:00 PM
You got some bad info bro, Pioli got Vrabel and Cassell for the 34th over all pick only.

We don't have to give a conditional pick for Vrabel??????

Sn@keIze
03-02-2009, 07:19 PM
Getting both of those players for a 2nd round pick I agree is down right fishy! As a Chief fan I am all for it and could not be more excited about what Pioli is doing for our team!!

We now need to focus on protecting Cassell and giving him some time!! He has way more potential that Thiggy!! I can't wait for the season to start!!!!!!!

Bring it on!!!! ya, but its not as fishy as everybody and the media think.

The 34th is practically a late 1st rounder. Another team that gives them their 1st for (example the 20th) is going to cost a lot more. And the chances of a late 1st rounder that the Pats are eyeing still being there at 34th is more likely than not being there. And they target a multitude of players. So Pats actually just saved some $$.

SDChief09
03-07-2009, 02:26 PM
Noobs? this is too funny, the Pats set themselves up with some of the best picks in the draft, 2nd round picks are gold right now, their 4 year contracts turn to 6 basically with the last 2 restricted now that the way the league is headed....makes those picks valuable, very valuable. They could secure 4 starters easily...have you seen how well they draft at the end of the first? Same thing in the early 2nd...

The trade made a lot of sense, The pats had already signed Taylor, so it wasnt to clear space for his tiny contract, the Pats are looking at Peppers and to extend some of their own...

We may have 50 mil in cap room, but we handed them 18, and thats a HUGE amount if you look at where we were...just 5 years ago.

SDChief09
03-09-2009, 05:24 PM
heard? I just dont like attacking other people...

See, forums are just a bunch of people stating opinions, this means you dont have to read said opinions, but it should be done in good taste...

To be heard? Then what? Be Stoked that people who dont know my name, know that I dislike your approach? please....

Coach
03-09-2009, 05:50 PM
Stay on topic please.

PeteCarroll
03-31-2009, 04:30 AM
I'll be honest I have not liked this trade from the get go. Aside from hiring Haley I see Pioli as a huge disappointment. Vrabel is solid but old, Cassel is a HUGE question mark. I think we would have been much better served by keeping our 2nd round pick and taking Stafford or Sanchez in the first and using the 34th overall on a LB.

AussieChiefsFan
03-31-2009, 05:28 AM
I'll be honest I have not liked this trade from the get go. Aside from hiring Haley I see Pioli as a huge disappointment. Vrabel is solid but old, Cassel is a HUGE question mark. I think we would have been much better served by keeping our 2nd round pick and taking Stafford or Sanchez in the first and using the 34th overall on a LB.
:sign0153:!!!!!!!!!

pbatrucker
03-31-2009, 06:24 AM
I'll be honest I have not liked this trade from the get go. Aside from hiring Haley I see Pioli as a huge disappointment. Vrabel is solid but old, Cassel is a HUGE question mark. I think we would have been much better served by keeping our 2nd round pick and taking Stafford or Sanchez in the first and using the 34th overall on a LB.
:sign0153: Must be cheap drugs.

AussieChiefsFan
03-31-2009, 06:33 AM
:lol:...........

PeteCarroll
03-31-2009, 02:31 PM
Sorry guys I don't think signing old backups and trading the 34th overall pick for a soon to be 27 yr old QB who has had 1 good year on a great team and a old LB who is obviously on the decline of his career was a good move. I see you guys really like to toe the company line thats cool.

Ask yourself this, do you think Stafford will be better at 27 than Cassel?

tornadospotter
03-31-2009, 03:46 PM
Sorry guys I don't think signing old backups and trading the 34th overall pick for a soon to be 27 yr old QB who has had 1 good year on a great team and a old LB who is obviously on the decline of his career was a good move. I see you guys really like to toe the company line thats cool.

Ask yourself this, do you think Stafford will be better at 27 than Cassel?
To be honest, I did not think we needed to draft or trade for a QB... I think we should have keep the 34th pick, draft for needs, pick up a QB in later Rd's or from Ufa's. I was fine with Thig being the QB. But we now have Cassel, so why even think about drafting a QB, especialy when we gave up our 2rd pick?, we have to draft for other needs! Not QB!
jmo :11:

Canada
03-31-2009, 03:50 PM
Sorry guys I don't think signing old backups and trading the 34th overall pick for a soon to be 27 yr old QB who has had 1 good year on a great team and a old LB who is obviously on the decline of his career was a good move. I see you guys really like to toe the company line thats cool.

Ask yourself this, do you think Stafford will be better at 27 than Cassel?

Ah Pete, you just like to bag on other teams. You think Cassel is gonna be a bad QB yet you give absolutely no reason why. Cassel is gonna get a good team built around him and he will continue to win games here in KC. You just hope he is gonna be bad cause you know that we are gonna take control of the AFC away from the Patriots and they will go back to stinkin it up...kinda like when you used to coach them. Pardon me for not thinking your advice is worth much!! :sign0098::sign0104:

PeteCarroll
03-31-2009, 06:26 PM
OK if you want to hang your hopes on a 1 year wonder go ahead Scott Mitchell2 will be just fine. Also I see none of you telling me why you think he's so great its just "oh you're on drugs" "How is that rock?" 'You're crazy"

jmlamerson
03-31-2009, 07:55 PM
OK if you want to hang your hopes on a 1 year wonder go ahead Scott Mitchell2 will be just fine. Also I see none of you telling me why you think he's so great its just "oh you're on drugs" "How is that rock?" 'You're crazy"

Matt Cassel stat-wise was one of the best QBs in the league last season, racking up impressive numbers through the air, while having a substandard line and no real RB.

He is only 26-years-old, and has been mentored by the best coach and QB of the modern era.

He is the prototypical height and weight, and has shown both accuracy and arm strenth.

He won 11 games last year, despite it being his first year starting.

He won both close games, shootouts, and made comebacks in the 4th quarter.

And yes, everyone except malcontents like you is happy to have him behind center, instead of a future bust like Sanchez or Stafford.

If you don't like it, you can probably troll other boards elsewhere.

KCOUTLAW
03-31-2009, 08:36 PM
LOL:funnypost:. Ya know, its really hard to say what Matt will bring to the Chiefs from here. But i do know this...IT SURE AS HELL AINT HURTING!! And for a lousy 2nd round pick I think it was a great move!!! And as far as Pete C. I just dont know why you think Cassel isnt for real, true he had a great core of recievers and coaches etc..But do you think just anyone can come off the bench and rack up numbers, accumulate tds, throw for over 3000 yards knowing that you are filling in for the best QB in the league!!!!!!!!!! HELL KNOW!!! There are starters in the league that cant do that! Tyler is a good QB too. We finally have a legitimate starter and back up situation in KC regaurdless who starts.

DT14PRIEST
04-01-2009, 12:00 AM
I'll be honest I have not liked this trade from the get go. Aside from hiring Haley I see Pioli as a huge disappointment. Vrabel is solid but old, Cassel is a HUGE question mark. I think we would have been much better served by keeping our 2nd round pick and taking Stafford or Sanchez in the first and using the 34th overall on a LB.

I don't see how drafting a Sanchez or Stafford is money in the bank and W's in the win column. As far as I know Sanchez is a one year injury prone USC standout, a flash in the pan, and Stafford is an inconsitent gunslinger Bulldog.

Could either of them pan out to be good to decent QB's in the future? Yes

Is history and stats in their favor? No

As far as our 2nd round pick is concerned, when you can bring in two players to start immediately and contribute/mentor to a young team; I think thats a deal that any GM would make in an instant. It immediately makes your team that much better then it was.

The only downside to Cassel is the cap hit we have to eat for his Franchise tag and even that when taken into perspective isn't a huge price to pay considering the potential upside he has. Yea he didn't start in college because Leinart had a stronger arm but when they were both given the reigns to a team and asked to lead one produced and the other didn't. Cassel instantly gained NFL credibility as a starter and future potential while Leinart revealed a bust in the making. Yea he was a backup in NE but he was scouted by Pioli and drafted in spite of it because of that potential.

With the Cassel acquisition we've already commitited our long term future with him at the helm. Our team, the Chiefs, will be molded to suit his strengths and assist in his deficencies (while few ones that can be ironed out with proper one on one coaching and continued progress as a starter). How anyone can think that we lost value in trading our 2nd round pick is just simple ignorance and total neglect to view reason. Their is no gaurentee with any pick in the draft that the college kid we draft produces as advertised.

What Pioli did was spend 2nd round potential for two proven players and gaurenteed day 1 starters, you can't ask for much else as a fan and thinking anything less of it is simply asinine.

Coach
04-01-2009, 12:53 AM
I'll be honest I have not liked this trade from the get go. Aside from hiring Haley I see Pioli as a huge disappointment. Vrabel is solid but old, Cassel is a HUGE question mark. I think we would have been much better served by keeping our 2nd round pick and taking Stafford or Sanchez in the first and using the 34th overall on a LB.

I hated losing our 2nd round pick. But not nearly as much as I would have hated losing our 1st round pick by drafting a QB that would not have even seen the field next year.

If the Chiefs would have drafted Sanchez or Stafford at #3, you are making a big bet that the guy pans out. They also would have probably not contributed at all next year. Instead the Chiefs spent a 2nd round pick on a player who has proven he can play at the next level and can contribute day 1. Now we can use our 1st round pick to address the lackluster defense and pass rush.

Let's pretend for a second that Stafford or Sanchez had fallen into our laps in the 2nd round, I would rather have Cassell over either of those guys and Cassell has proven that he can win at this level. Throw Vrabel in the mix on a team that sorely needed LB's and help with their transition to a 3-4 scheme. I'm really not sure how you could argue against this trade unless you didn't want the Chiefs to draft a QB at all. That would have meant putting all of our hopes on Tyler Thigpen. I like Tyler Thigpen, but if he didn't work out or was injured, then this team would have been staring at another 2-14 season. Now we have a QB competition between two guys that I think have bright futures. That's a very much different situation than we had going into last season.

It was a great trade IMO. Great trade.

PeteCarroll
04-01-2009, 01:53 AM
I hated losing our 2nd round pick. But not nearly as much as I would have hated losing our 1st round pick by drafting a QB that would not have even seen the field next year.

If the Chiefs would have drafted Sanchez or Stafford at #3, you are making a big bet that the guy pans out. They also would have probably not contributed at all next year. Instead the Chiefs spent a 2nd round pick on a player who has proven he can play at the next level and can contribute day 1. Now we can use our 1st round pick to address the lackluster defense and pass rush.

Let's pretend for a second that Stafford or Sanchez had fallen into our laps in the 2nd round, I would rather have Cassell over either of those guys and Cassell has proven that he can win at this level. Throw Vrabel in the mix on a team that sorely needed LB's and help with their transition to a 3-4 scheme. I'm really not sure how you could argue against this trade unless you didn't want the Chiefs to draft a QB at all. That would have meant putting all of our hopes on Tyler Thigpen. I like Tyler Thigpen, but if he didn't work out or was injured, then this team would have been staring at another 2-14 season. Now we have a QB competition between two guys that I think have bright futures. That's a very much different situation than we had going into last season.

It was a great trade IMO. Great trade.

Well thats why you are the site admin you gave me your reasons, well versed and thought out. I however disagree with them. I can't help but think Cassel is a flash in the pan, he was a decent QB on a GREAT football team. IMO if all three Sanchez, Stafford, even Bradford, and Cassel are compared at the age of 27 Cassel would be the bottom guy on the rung. But this is a forum for debate and I respect your opinions.

PeteCarroll
04-01-2009, 01:57 AM
I don't see how drafting a Sanchez or Stafford is money in the bank and W's in the win column. As far as I know Sanchez is a one year injury prone USC standout, a flash in the pan, and Stafford is an inconsitent gunslinger Bulldog.

Could either of them pan out to be good to decent QB's in the future? Yes

Is history and stats in their favor? No

As far as our 2nd round pick is concerned, when you can bring in two players to start immediately and contribute/mentor to a young team; I think thats a deal that any GM would make in an instant. It immediately makes your team that much better then it was.

The only downside to Cassel is the cap hit we have to eat for his Franchise tag and even that when taken into perspective isn't a huge price to pay considering the potential upside he has. Yea he didn't start in college because Leinart had a stronger arm but when they were both given the reigns to a team and asked to lead one produced and the other didn't. Cassel instantly gained NFL credibility as a starter and future potential while Leinart revealed a bust in the making. Yea he was a backup in NE but he was scouted by Pioli and drafted in spite of it because of that potential.

With the Cassel acquisition we've already commitited our long term future with him at the helm. Our team, the Chiefs, will be molded to suit his strengths and assist in his deficencies (while few ones that can be ironed out with proper one on one coaching and continued progress as a starter). How anyone can think that we lost value in trading our 2nd round pick is just simple ignorance and total neglect to view reason. Their is no gaurentee with any pick in the draft that the college kid we draft produces as advertised.

What Pioli did was spend 2nd round potential for two proven players and gaurenteed day 1 starters, you can't ask for much else as a fan and thinking anything less of it is simply asinine.

Damn great post. I completely understand where you are coming from. I just don't think we have the talent around him to make him successful, look he took a team that went undefeated in the regular season the previous year and failed to make the playoffs with them . I don't think anyone has any doubt that if Mr Brady was at the helm they goto the superbowl and Mr Cassel is released.

PeteCarroll
04-01-2009, 02:01 AM
Matt Cassel stat-wise was one of the best QBs in the league last season, racking up impressive numbers through the air, while having a substandard line and no real RB.

He is only 26-years-old, and has been mentored by the best coach and QB of the modern era.

He is the prototypical height and weight, and has shown both accuracy and arm strenth.

He won 11 games last year, despite it being his first year starting.

He won both close games, shootouts, and made comebacks in the 4th quarter.

And yes, everyone except malcontents like you is happy to have him behind center, instead of a future bust like Sanchez or Stafford.

If you don't like it, you can probably troll other boards elsewhere.

I troll no where I am a Chiefs fan as hard as it has been, but I'm sorry I don't just agree with everything the FO has done.

I'll bet a few GM's would agree that Stafford and Sanchez will have better careers than Cassel. I'm the biggest SC homer on Earth and I can't stand the guy.

So am I the only one on this entire board that disagrees with everyone else. I see me being quoted on everyone's post.

Malcontent or not I don't think Matt Cassel is not as good as he is made out to be, sorry if we disagree. I thought thats what this is for.

Sn@keIze
04-01-2009, 02:02 AM
. IMO if all three Sanchez, Stafford, even Bradford, and Cassel are compared at the age of 27 Cassel would be the bottom guy on the rung. .Do you seriously think if Cassell was in the upcoming draft he'd fall to the 34th pick? There were teams willing to give up their 1st pick for him (Jets/Bucs)

We got a good deal and retained our 1st pick. We are still in a position to have an outstanding draft.

PeteCarroll
04-01-2009, 03:29 AM
Do you seriously think if Cassell was in the upcoming draft he'd fall to the 34th pick? There were teams willing to give up their 1st pick for him (Jets/Bucs)

We got a good deal and retained our 1st pick. We are still in a position to have an outstanding draft.

At 27 years of age YES.

Canada
04-01-2009, 09:02 AM
I troll no where I am a Chiefs fan as hard as it has been, but I'm sorry I don't just agree with everything the FO has done.

I'll bet a few GM's would agree that Stafford and Sanchez will have better careers than Cassel. I'm the biggest SC homer on Earth and I can't stand the guy.

So am I the only one on this entire board that disagrees with everyone else. I see me being quoted on everyone's post.

Malcontent or not I don't think Matt Cassel is not as good as he is made out to be, sorry if we disagree. I thought thats what this is for.

It is, but the only reason that you have (other than a guess) that Cassel will be a no good is because he played on a really good team. What kind of logic is that? And he didn't make the playoffs? They were 11-5 and got beat out be an 8-8 team. If u don't think that was a playoff calibur team, you might want to check out a football game or two.

yashi
04-01-2009, 12:16 PM
I watched 3 of the final 4 Pats games in their entirety a few weeks ago, and all I can say is I don't see how anyone could think Cassel is not the real deal. I've also yet to see a single Pats fan say that he is anything less than a stud.

KCOUTLAW
04-01-2009, 07:29 PM
amen! I'll drink to that.

DT14PRIEST
04-02-2009, 12:25 AM
I'll bet a few GM's would agree that Stafford and Sanchez will have better careers than Cassel. I'm the biggest SC homer on Earth and I can't stand the guy.

So am I the only one on this entire board that disagrees with everyone else. I see me being quoted on everyone's post.

Malcontent or not I don't think Matt Cassel is not as good as he is made out to be, sorry if we disagree. I thought thats what this is for.

You're not the only one who doesn't agree with the trade on this board, but there are more people in favor for him then there are against him.

But I digress...

There is always two sides to a disagreement. If (and only if) we had a legitimate aging QB with a couple of years left in him I could see the merits in your arguements against Cassel. In spite of whats been commonly hyped in NE with the "rough diamond QB" specialist in Belichick and the recent success of the rookie QB in Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco, I still am far from a believer that you can take a college QB and throw him in the NFL and expect him to do well his rookie season.

Draft a Matt Stafford with nothing but college exp and tell him to change the face of your franchise and you get Joey Harrington.

I also don't believe Tom Brady was the "Tom Brady" we all see today from day one. Rather I believe he had the potential but wasn't coached thoroughly enough in College to expand on it. Lets not forget that Tom Brady only started his Senior year at Michigan (he was 5th or 6th on the depth chart till then) and even then he was considered a run of the mill avg QB by scouts and draft proffessionals. I think what really paid dividends for his success was the time he was able to spend as a backup behind a mentor like Drew Bledsoe and the knowledge he then gained from NFL coaching that propelled him to success.\

You don't draft Rhett Bomar and sit him behind Tyler Thigpen and expect Tom Brady it just doesn't make sense.

The story is almost parrallel to the Cassel situation at USC save for the fact that him and Matt Leinart were in the same grad. class so he was relegated to his 2nd string position. You have to have seen it yourself (referencing the real life Pete Carrol here) or you wouldn't have had him on the team at USC. And the same situation in the draft occurred for Cassel...He was drafted late because Pioli/Belichick/Scouts saw his raw potential, he was then mentored and tutored behind a legit pro QB in Brady now, was coached for success in NE and thusly delivered when given the ball and asked to go when the star went down.

The process of building a team around his talents is something that will take time (1-2 years) that I know, but even then, I believe, the reward will be worth the wait.

You can't ask for much more, the proof is in the pudding; he succeeded in the same manner in which Brady did so the potential upside for him is enormous. Which is not to say he won't fail beacuase he could still yet but if their is one thing that I've learned about history in and of itself is that it does repeat itself and having a potential 'Brady' on our team, well I don't know how anyone can not not be excited about the future.

chief31
04-02-2009, 09:30 PM
I don't see how drafting a Sanchez or Stafford is money in the bank and W's in the win column. As far as I know Sanchez is a one year injury prone USC standout, a flash in the pan, and Stafford is an inconsitent gunslinger Bulldog.

Could either of them pan out to be good to decent QB's in the future? Yes

Is history and stats in their favor? No

As far as our 2nd round pick is concerned, when you can bring in two players to start immediately and contribute/mentor to a young team; I think thats a deal that any GM would make in an instant. It immediately makes your team that much better then it was.

The only downside to Cassel is the cap hit we have to eat for his Franchise tag and even that when taken into perspective isn't a huge price to pay considering the potential upside he has. Yea he didn't start in college because Leinart had a stronger arm but when they were both given the reigns to a team and asked to lead one produced and the other didn't. Cassel instantly gained NFL credibility as a starter and future potential while Leinart revealed a bust in the making. Yea he was a backup in NE but he was scouted by Pioli and drafted in spite of it because of that potential.

With the Cassel acquisition we've already commitited our long term future with him at the helm. Our team, the Chiefs, will be molded to suit his strengths and assist in his deficencies (while few ones that can be ironed out with proper one on one coaching and continued progress as a starter). How anyone can think that we lost value in trading our 2nd round pick is just simple ignorance and total neglect to view reason. Their is no gaurentee with any pick in the draft that the college kid we draft produces as advertised.

What Pioli did was spend 2nd round potential for two proven players and gaurenteed day 1 starters, you can't ask for much else as a fan and thinking anything less of it is simply asinine.

A.) I am not ignorant for disagreeing with you, as I do.

B.) I am not asinine for disagreeing with you, as I do.

Neither player is a "Guaranteed day 1 starter", even barring injury.

I expect that both will start. Vrabel out of lack of options, and Cassel because Pioli will want to get his money's worth.

But, one is rather aged, and the other is still very much an unknown commodity.


I hated losing our 2nd round pick. But not nearly as much as I would have hated losing our 1st round pick by drafting a QB that would not have even seen the field next year.

If the Chiefs would have drafted Sanchez or Stafford at #3, you are making a big bet that the guy pans out. They also would have probably not contributed at all next year. Instead the Chiefs spent a 2nd round pick on a player who has proven he can play at the next level and can contribute day 1. Now we can use our 1st round pick to address the lackluster defense and pass rush.

Let's pretend for a second that Stafford or Sanchez had fallen into our laps in the 2nd round, I would rather have Cassell over either of those guys and Cassell has proven that he can win at this level. Throw Vrabel in the mix on a team that sorely needed LB's and help with their transition to a 3-4 scheme. I'm really not sure how you could argue against this trade unless you didn't want the Chiefs to draft a QB at all. That would have meant putting all of our hopes on Tyler Thigpen. I like Tyler Thigpen, but if he didn't work out or was injured, then this team would have been staring at another 2-14 season. Now we have a QB competition between two guys that I think have bright futures. That's a very much different situation than we had going into last season.

It was a great trade IMO. Great trade.

Amen! Except for the great trade concept.

Drafting a QB would have been a terrible move, IMO. But shedding our 34th overall pick for a QB prospect still sits uneasy with me.

I'll like it alot more, if he plays well here. But there is plenty to be sceptical about with Cassel.


I troll no where I am a Chiefs fan as hard as it has been, but I'm sorry I don't just agree with everything the FO has done.

I'll bet a few GM's would agree that Stafford and Sanchez will have better careers than Cassel. I'm the biggest SC homer on Earth and I can't stand the guy.

So am I the only one on this entire board that disagrees with everyone else. I see me being quoted on everyone's post.

Malcontent or not I don't think Matt Cassel is not as good as he is made out to be, sorry if we disagree. I thought thats what this is for.

You were the only one on who doesn't trust that trade. But you may be the only one bold enough to call him a bust at this point.

I don't trust Cassel, because I do believe that alot of generic QBs could have gotten an 19-1 team to 11-5. But I can't say that I think he is a bust.


Do you seriously think if Cassell was in the upcoming draft he'd fall to the 34th pick? There were teams willing to give up their 1st pick for him (Jets/Bucs)

We got a good deal and retained our 1st pick. We are still in a position to have an outstanding draft.

There is no way that anyone made a better offer for Cassel, or he would have been traded there instead.

The NFL is big business. And friendship doesn't override business.


You're not the only one who doesn't agree with the trade on this board, but there are more people in favor for him then there are against him.

But I digress...

There is always two sides to a disagreement. If (and only if) we had a legitimate aging QB with a couple of years left in him I could see the merits in your arguements against Cassel. In spite of whats been commonly hyped in NE with the "rough diamond QB" specialist in Belichick and the recent success of the rookie QB in Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco, I still am far from a believer that you can take a college QB and throw him in the NFL and expect him to do well his rookie season.

Draft a Matt Stafford with nothing but college exp and tell him to change the face of your franchise and you get Joey Harrington.

I also don't believe Tom Brady was the "Tom Brady" we all see today from day one. Rather I believe he had the potential but wasn't coached thoroughly enough in College to expand on it. Lets not forget that Tom Brady only started his Senior year at Michigan (he was 5th or 6th on the depth chart till then) and even then he was considered a run of the mill avg QB by scouts and draft proffessionals. I think what really paid dividends for his success was the time he was able to spend as a backup behind a mentor like Drew Bledsoe and the knowledge he then gained from NFL coaching that propelled him to success.

You don't draft Rhett Bomar and sit him behind Tyler Thigpen and expect Tom Brady it just doesn't make sense.

The story is almost parrallel to the Cassel situation at USC save for the fact that him and Matt Leinart were in the same grad. class so he was relegated to his 2nd string position. You have to have seen it yourself (referencing the real life Pete Carrol here) or you wouldn't have had him on the team at USC. And the same situation in the draft occurred for Cassel...He was drafted late because Pioli/Belichick/Scouts saw his raw potential, he was then mentored and tutored behind a legit pro QB in Brady now, was coached for success in NE and thusly delivered when given the ball and asked to go when the star went down.

The process of building a team around his talents is something that will take time (1-2 years) that I know, but even then, I believe, the reward will be worth the wait.

You can't ask for much more, the proof is in the pudding; he succeeded in the same manner in which Brady did so the potential upside for him is enormous. Which is not to say he won't fail beacuase he could still yet but if their is one thing that I've learned about history in and of itself is that it does repeat itself and having a potential 'Brady' on our team, well I don't know how anyone can not not be excited about the future.

I'll agree that there is a chance that we got an amazing deal. But, I am far from convinced of that yet.

At the time, the Elvis Grbac trade was considered a big win for us. As was the Steve Bono trade.

Cassel has all of the makings of that same kind of deal, if you look at it from a specific perspective.

Now, when you consider that this team was set at QB, and in dire straits at so many other positions, perhaps you will be able to see how one might be able to expect more from a 34th overall draft spot.

DT14PRIEST
04-02-2009, 11:50 PM
A.) I am not ignorant for disagreeing with you, as I do.

B.) I am not asinine for disagreeing with you, as I do.

Neither player is a "Guaranteed day 1 starter", even barring injury.

I expect that both will start. Vrabel out of lack of options, and Cassel because Pioli will want to get his money's worth.

But, one is rather aged, and the other is still very much an unknown commodity.

I'll agree that there is a chance that we got an amazing deal. But, I am far from convinced of that yet.

At the time, the Elvis Grbac trade was considered a big win for us. As was the Steve Bono trade.

Cassel has all of the makings of that same kind of deal, if you look at it from a specific perspective.

Now, when you consider that this team was set at QB, and in dire straits at so many other positions, perhaps you will be able to see how one might be able to expect more from a 34th overall draft spot.

Maybe ignorant and asinine is a bit rough I'll concede the point I should of worded it better.

But I do believe that both are day one starters given the situation they're coming into. There is nothing better waiting in the wings. A sad statement but one that is well known throughout the community.

I, for one, don't see the Bono comparison. While he may have been considered a good trade back in 94 he never did accomplish what Cassel has already accomplished. You also have to consider that for every trade comparison likened to Grbac and/or Bono there has to be consideration for Trent Green/Warner/Brady who all came from similar situations and brought about success to their respective franchises.

So its a matter of perspective on that.

I'll be frank, I never thought this team was set at QB with Thigpen at the helm. This team is chalk full of holes that need to be filled and/or replaced and QB was one of them. I see the value of the 34th overall pick, I really do and I see the inherent risk in placing the future in Cassel's hands given the needs of the team. But I feel he is as good as advertised and given a GM and Coach that believe that he is the future and can knownignly and efficently build a team around him in time I think the Chiefs are primed for quite a long time of success.

With that one second round pick the Chiefs were going to take a risk on a player anyway. There is nothing garunteed in taking a college stud but there is already evidence in support of Cassel. I'll take a chance on a QB like Cassel with NFL exp. over a raw college player.

And we get veteran leadership (Vrabel) with it. THere is just (in my mind) nothing not to like about the trade thus far. Only if every player selected in the 2nd round of this draft turns into HoF players then yes, I'd be upset we missed out.

tornadospotter
04-04-2009, 09:09 AM
I troll no where I am a Chiefs fan as hard as it has been, but I'm sorry I don't just agree with everything the FO has done.

I'll bet a few GM's would agree that Stafford and Sanchez will have better careers than Cassel. I'm the biggest SC homer on Earth and I can't stand the guy.

So am I the only one on this entire board that disagrees with everyone else. I see me being quoted on everyone's post.

Malcontent or not I don't think Matt Cassel is not as good as he is made out to be, sorry if we disagree. I thought thats what this is for.
I agree.:11:

Sn@keIze
04-04-2009, 09:24 AM
A.) Cassel ......
is still very much an unknown commodity.

shedding our 34th overall pick for a QB prospect still sits uneasy with me.
.
There is no way that anyone made a better offer for Cassel, or he would have been traded there instead.

The NFL is big business. And friendship doesn't override business.



I'll agree that there is a chance that we got an amazing deal. But, I am far from convinced of that yet.

At the time, the Elvis Grbac trade was considered a big win for us. As was the Steve Bono trade.

.Who is more of an unknown commodity, a player who has proven himself in the NFL, or a QB from college..whomever it may be.



The way I understand it.... is that b4 we landed Cassell, the Bucs were willing to give up their 1st in a 3-way trade. They obtain Cassell to get Cutler who apparently is worth at least two 1st rounders and a 3rd. Had the Pats waited a lil longer.


I agree with you that business is first (before friendship) but maybe thats just the Pats plan to save and distribute salary. Maybe they wanted the 34th over the 20something pick. (or whatever pick the bucs hold.)

I also agree that we shouldnt be tooting our horn that Cassell is "the chosen one".

What did Trent Green accomplish before coming here that Casseel hasnt. These are the chances you must take...Especially for a 2nd rounder.

okikcfan
04-05-2009, 02:19 PM
I know we all look at things in different ways and we can all come to different conclusions but to have such a neg. outlook and we havent even got to mini camp yet is really kinda unfair. Sanchez or Stafford will get the same chance after the draft as Cassell and what will really count is Game Day. Yes some of them will have better targets than the others. A team reflects from it's coaches and a QB reflects from it's team. Give the guy a chance, IMO I think Cassell is a good fit for this team and this coaching staff. He has good coaching now as well as in the past, he has worked with the best and maybe, just maybe if given the chance, he too could turn out to be one of the best. You just never know......

Patsfor4
04-06-2009, 09:29 PM
The Patriots fans must hate the Chiefs.

*Tearing the ACL of their HOF QB Tom Brady in week 1 - $10,000,000
*Steal Pioli away from the Pats - $3,000,000
*Taking the Pats defensive team leader Mike Vrabel - $3,200,000
*Stealing the Pats QB of the future Matt Cassell - 2nd round pick
*Seeing the look on Patriots fans' faces - Priceless.
__________________Hey guys! Friendly visiting Pats fan here! Here are the answers IMHO....

*We don't blame the Chiefs for that. Clearly accidental. Never heard anyone say otherwise.

*Pioli was going to go anyway. Better to you than NY or Miami!

*Mike Vrabel! We love Mike Vrabel! However, he is showing his age and his 4 million or so price is too much for him. It's about value. Tedy Bruschi is only a bit over 1 mil so we keep him. Also, 34 year old LB? In decline.

*Matt Cassel was never the QB of the future! There was no way that Our Evil Genius, BB would ever, ever, in a million years pay Matt Cassel (who almost got cut in pre-season) 14 million dollars even if Tom Brady was dead! He would have offered him a reasonable 5 or 6 mil or started O'Connell.

*Our faces are quite smiley! We got Fred Taylor, Joey Galloway, Shaun Springs and Leigh Bodin. We resigned a bunch of players with the cap space. We have 5 picks in the first three rounds of the draft including 3 in round 2.

Most of all....We still have...Tom Brady! #12 HOF!

ps. Before you get too excited about Matt Cassel, I would watch some of the Pittsburgh game last year and see what happens to him when he gets blitzed. Remember he won 11 games with the same Offense that won 16 in a row the year before and broke a bunch of offensive records.

Best of Luck guys!

tornadospotter
04-06-2009, 09:48 PM
Patsie, all you have said is true, but Cassel is not a patsie anymore, and Pioli is head Chief. BB is good at what he does, that is all I will say.

yashi
04-08-2009, 03:23 PM
ps. Before you get too excited about Matt Cassel, I would watch some of the Pittsburgh game last year and see what happens to him when he gets blitzed.
well, they were one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL... I'll give him a pass on that one.

Patsfor4
04-11-2009, 06:10 PM
Don't take me wrong. He got better every week. For a second round pick and you got Vrabel too, that's a really good deal for The Chiefs. He proved he can start in the NFL and that's something. If you said to anyone would use a second rounder on a QB guaranteed to start would you do it, of course they would!

I'm just saying that we in NE are not upset about losing him because with Brady playing he's not worth a bag of footballs sitting on the bench and we got a second round pick for a guy that last year this time was fighting for a job. Also the 11-5 record is a bit inflated because he was playing for a good team with excellent coaching.

So it works out for both teams. We get something for a guy who was almost cut and/or was going to be a free agent and be too expensive to be a backup. Vrabel had to go because of cap space. You guys get definite starter at QB and a starting or really good LB who can play inside and outside. I bet the Pats take a QB in the 3rd round, maybe Pat White.

The most important part of the deal is Cassel didn't go to NY or Miami or even Denver.

chief31
04-13-2009, 03:02 AM
I haven't seen any Trojan QB's in the NFL that have had half the success that Matt Cassell has had. Take a look at the people that have been drafted at #1 outta that so called best team in College football,

Carson Palmer:Sure he has put up some numbers on occassion but basically has done nothing as far as Championships. Since being injuered in the playoffs his career has nose dived and he was expected to be HOF potential, not in my book as I think he sucks to be honest and was totally over rated outta college.
Reggie Bush is a RB and he hasn't even had very big success IMO. His team led by Brees made it to the NFC CHampionship game where the Bears beat them out LMAO!!!!!!
Cassell is the best prospect outta that USC last 10 years of history or the Pete Carroll era as he atleast started in more than 10 games(15) in last years season and he put up decent numbers by taking the Patriots to a 11 - 5 record and would have been in the playoffs if Miami would have lost it's last game of the year. The AFC East finished out like this
Miami 11 - 5
NE 11 - 5
NY Jets 10 - 6
The frackin SD CHargers beat the Pats out as they won the AFC West so if you don't think Cassell will do good as a Chief where he will have a decent set of WRs and a running game to work with your insaine. If Thigpen can do it , Cassell can and I like Thigpen but Cassell has a bigger arm and he has more awareness then Thigpen does. A bit of advice, if you want to bash a guy make sure you have some points to make other than saying you think he sucks. Stats are good as well as scenerios ;) :D

I find you to be vastly underqualified to give hat advice, considering your views on Carson Palmer.

You say that you can't find any Trojan QB hat has had half the success of Cassel, but then load us up with excuses why Palmer had so much success.

Palmer helped turn the Bungles into a playoff team. That is impressive.

I'm not even saying that Palmer is a better QB than Cassel.

But, as amazing as it is that someone made the Bungles into a legit football team, it pales in comparison to hearing someone belittle that accomplishment.

And...

A bit of advice, if you want to bash a guy make sure you have some points to make other than saying you think he sucks.

Drunker Hillbilly
04-13-2009, 10:53 AM
There's only one person around here qualified to give advice..................

Canada
04-13-2009, 12:18 PM
...and I am busy!!

AussieChiefsFan
04-14-2009, 01:36 AM
...and I am busy!!
Because you're giving advice.:D