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Coach
02-28-2009, 04:31 PM
Cassell or Thigpen?

I just wanted to be the first person to post a QB controversy thread. I'm sure it will be talked about a lot by Thigpen fans.

windwalker
02-28-2009, 04:32 PM
Trade Thigpen to anyone...

Drunker Hillbilly
02-28-2009, 04:40 PM
NO CONTROVERSY!!!! I just thought I would be the one to put this thread to rest!!!!!!! LOL!!

NKChiefs
02-28-2009, 04:40 PM
I liked the thought of Thigpin as the QB, but now everything changed. So i agree that it is a no brainer, but... I still think it could have bin fun to see Thigpin this season :)

hermhater
02-28-2009, 04:41 PM
I think Cassel will be starting.

I also think that Pioli has a plan to shore up the O line.

No way this trade would have happened if he doesn't.

yashi
02-28-2009, 04:45 PM
Pioli didn't trade for Cassel to have him ride the bench.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 04:48 PM
Cassell or Thigpen?




I just wanted to be the first person to post a QB controversy thread. I'm sure it will be talked about a lot by Thigpen fans.


Ha. I like Thigpen, and I see him as a valuable gadget guy/backup for us next season. Don't be surprised if we line him up at WR sometimes. Also don't be surprised if we trade him to a team like Carolina, Tennessee, or Jacksonville for picks.

But Cassel is the starter. There's no controversy.

Coach
02-28-2009, 04:53 PM
Ha. I like Thigpen, and I see him as a valuable gadget guy/backup for us next season. Don't be surprised if we line him up at WR sometimes. Also don't be surprised if we trade him to a team like Carolina, Tennessee, or Jacksonville for picks.

But Cassel is the starter. There's no controversy.
Thigpen to Carolina could make for a good trade. Thigpen is from Carolina and we need Peppers.

warcrychief
02-28-2009, 04:53 PM
Trade Thigpen to anyone...

And if Cassell goes down then what? no way does Thig get traded.

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 06:00 PM
Trade Thig? WTF? How bout we keep our good players? I think that is a good idea.

Injuries do happen, we do need depth at QB position. Competant depth.

hermhater
02-28-2009, 06:01 PM
I hear ya Snake.

Vandelay
02-28-2009, 06:05 PM
We gotta keep Thiggy. Last year taught us that the backup, and even the 3rd string, better be ready at all times.

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 06:09 PM
Didn't Thigpen play running back in High School or something? I agree with the notion of him being the gadget guy, sort of the Wildcat QB or something like that.

1 - Cassel
2 - Thigpen
3 - Quinn Gray
4 - ...Ingle Martin?

A very nice depth chart to have especially at QB

warcrychief
02-28-2009, 06:11 PM
Didn't Thigpen play running back in High School or something? I agree with the notion of him being the gadget guy, sort of the Wildcat QB or something like that.

1 - Cassel
2 - Thigpen
3 - Quinn Gray
4 - ...Ingle Martin?

A very nice depth chart to have especially at QB

More like Cassell
then Thigpen
then Croyle
Gray PS
:D

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 06:13 PM
More like Cassell
then Thigpen
then Croyle
Gray PS
:D

You're right I always forget that Croyle is on the roster and not on IR anymore ><

Croyle at 4.

:P

Drunker Hillbilly
02-28-2009, 06:16 PM
Croyle is easy to forget for obvious reasons!!! Wish we had that pick back.

Codac
02-28-2009, 06:54 PM
Right now Thigpen has to have the nod. He has the team's playbook down already, and he has the players' support.

Codac
02-28-2009, 06:57 PM
Didn't Thigpen play running back in High School or something? I agree with the notion of him being the gadget guy, sort of the Wildcat QB or something like that.

1 - Cassel
2 - Thigpen
3 - Quinn Gray
4 - ...Ingle Martin?

A very nice depth chart to have especially at QB

No Croyle still gets the 4th spot for his game time experience, though obviously not good. Martin is PS, I wouldn't be suprised if Gray or Croyle are let go though.

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 06:58 PM
Right now Thigpen has to have the nod. He has the team's playbook down already, and he has the players' support.

No. Pioli didn't trade a 2nd rounder to bring his QB in just to have him compete with a guy who went 1-9 last year.

Whether you agree or not, Cassel is our starter.

warcrychief
02-28-2009, 07:05 PM
Right now Thigpen has to have the nod. He has the team's playbook down already, and he has the players' support.

and for how much Cassell is going to get paid this year. No way does he get the clipboard. He is already seasoned and support of the GM.

Xploder
02-28-2009, 07:07 PM
Cassell should not get the start because we gave such and such for him. Thigpen lead this team last year a piss poor front line. Cassell did good behind a good not great but good line. this should be Thigpens job to lose and lose in a fair unbiased compitition. End of story!

jmlamerson
02-28-2009, 07:08 PM
Cassell should not get the start because we gave such and such for him. Thigpen lead this team last year a piss poor front line. Cassell did good behind a good not great but good line. this should be Thigpens job to lose and lose in a fair unbiased compitition. End of story!

It doesn't matter what you think should happen. Thigpen is on the bench next year. There's going to be no competition.

KU4LIFE
02-28-2009, 07:09 PM
We saw first hand in New England this past year that it never hurts to have two starting QB's on roster. It just takes one play for a guy to be out of the lineup (Tom Brady, all of KC's wounded the past couple of seasons).

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 07:13 PM
No Croyle still gets the 4th spot for his game time experience, though obviously not good. Martin is PS, I wouldn't be suprised if Gray or Croyle are let go though.

Yea, I just forgot about Croyle when thinking about all the QBs in KC.

Xploder
02-28-2009, 07:13 PM
It doesn't matter what you think should happen. Thigpen is on the bench next year. There's going to be no competition.

if this is the caes then its not honest and the possible best person for the position isnt playing and thats not what is best for the team.

warcrychief
02-28-2009, 07:14 PM
Cassell should not get the start because we gave such and such for him. Thigpen lead this team last year a piss poor front line. Cassell did good behind a good not great but good line. this should be Thigpens job to lose and lose in a fair unbiased compitition. End of story!

Is that how you will tell our new GM off lol

Sn@keIze
02-28-2009, 07:14 PM
Cassell should not get the start because we gave such and such for him. Thigpen lead this team last year a piss poor front line. Cassell did good behind a good not great but good line. this should be Thigpens job to lose and lose in a fair unbiased compitition. End of story!I agree, but its not gonna happen.

This is Piolis boy who knows him on a personal level. And you cant pay someone like that to not start him.

When training camp starts theyll get a good idea of how Cassell and Thig fit into the system. We'll see what happens then.

Xploder
02-28-2009, 07:15 PM
its not about telling people off I just want to see the best man for the position take the team on the field next year

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 07:20 PM
if this is the caes then its not honest and the best person for the position isnt playing and thats not what is best for the team.

I don't know how you can determine the better player by just saying one thing or the other, but it'd be a monumental coaching mishap if Cassel was to be on the bench and Thigpen started both from a financial point and a skill set p.o.v. Thigpen was serviceable at best during the season but proved little in the way of being a long term solution, yea he may have won over some people and made the Chiefs watchable but in reality was never the solution to our woes.

Just look at it like this. Cassel and Thigpen are similar in mechanics. They're both agile Quarterbacks who are able to move the pocket, throw on the run, and tuck the ball and run.

The difference?

- Cassel has the arm strength
- Consistency
- Accuracy
- On the field leadership

Thigpen was good but was never really the on the field presence that the Chiefs needed to lead. The highlights don't lie.

EDIT: But I will agree there will be QB competition in training camp. You can bet on it. But I'd be willing to bet that Cassel proves why he deserves the starting job.

AussieChiefsFan
02-28-2009, 07:21 PM
Cassell or Thigpen?

I just wanted to be the first person to post a QB controversy thread. I'm sure it will be talked about a lot by Thigpen fans.
I hope we give cassel a go right away.

Xploder
02-28-2009, 07:22 PM
Just look at it like this. Cassel and Thigpen are similar in mechanics. They're both agile Quarterbacks who are able to move the pocket, throw on the run, and tuck the ball and run.

The difference?

- Cassel has the arm strength
- Consistency
- Accuracy
- On the field leadership

Thigpen was good but was never really the on the field presence that the Chiefs needed to lead. The highlights don't lie.

EDIT: But I will agree there will be QB competition in training camp. You can bet on it. But I'd be willing to bet that Cassel proves why he deserves the starting job.[/quote]

cassell had more time and better protection field leadership can be debated

Vandelay
02-28-2009, 07:32 PM
Hey I'm the biggest Thigpen supporter out there, but I'm not nieve enough to think there's going to be a QB competition this preseason. Cassel was brought in to start, end of story. I hate QB controversies. P.S. this is going to be one hail of a year, IMO. :bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
02-28-2009, 07:44 PM
http://arrowheadjunkies.com/pictures/PhotoShop/sig_pics/NFL_Players/kansas_city_chiefs/matt_cassel/chiefs_crowd/rw100g_matt_cassel_450.png

chief31
02-28-2009, 08:58 PM
Right now Thigpen has to have the nod. He has the team's playbook down already, and he has the players' support.

Done deal.


Cassell should not get the start because we gave such and such for him. Thigpen lead this team last year a piss poor front line. Cassell did good behind a good not great but good line. this should be Thigpens job to lose and lose in a fair unbiased compitition. End of story!

Agreed.


It doesn't matter what you think should happen. Thigpen is on the bench next year. There's going to be no competition.

But.... Also agreed.

What's best for the team makes absolutely no difference at this point. Cassel is the starter.

A QB competition will be announced. But, just like the Croyle/Huard competition from '07, there will not be a competition.

I believe that Cassel is the slightly better QB. But that we will see Thigpen starting at some point, unless we get some O-line upgrades.

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 09:08 PM
Cassell should not get the start because we gave such and such for him. Thigpen lead this team last year a piss poor front line. Cassell did good behind a good not great but good line. this should be Thigpens job to lose and lose in a fair unbiased compitition. End of story!

This is untrue. Going by stats alone for the 2008 season

Chiefs OLine allowed 37 Sacks

Pats OLine allowed 48 Sacks

That doesn't equate to better oline for NE in my books.


Right now Thigpen has to have the nod. He has the team's playbook down already, and he has the players' support.

This is half right and half wrong.

Lets not forget that just because Gailey is around that Haley is going to run his offensive scheme. Haley is going to implement whatever offense he has in mind so that means the playbook is going to change for everyone on the team.

I will say that Thigpen has the support of some players but as long as Cassel can get the ball to the play makers and their individual stats go up you'll see them rally behind Cassel. Gonzo is a stat man. Plain and simple, his best statiscal season was last year and Thigpen went to him on every passing down so it makes sense for him to have some loyalty to Thigpen when his HoF numbers get better with every game.

chief31
02-28-2009, 09:28 PM
I hope we change the play book just a little anyway, last years Offense was dull and very boring at times not to mention was a little on the pass heavy side. We need a balanced Offense to keep all of the opponents D off guard.

Well, if you haven't seen the Pats and Cardinals' offenses recently, it is pretty much the same as what we had last season.

Balanced offense is not something that exists on either of those teams. And probably won't with us in '09.

chief31
02-28-2009, 09:46 PM
We can count on LJ cryin again. I think if we are to take advantage of the players we have yet to cut or trade away that he would be a part of the equasion and yea I have seen what type of offense that both teams have and something tells me that we won't follow in line simply because of where Pioli and Haley have already been in the past. I would think the rest of the league is thinking the same way you are and it would be awsome to see Haley take advantage of the tools he has instead of attempting to impliment a Offense that the Chiefs aren't currently built to run. Time will tell.

I think that kind of offense is all that we are currently capable of running, with any degree of success.

Couple that with the fact that both of those offenses have managed to put plenty of points on the board, and I think that both Haley and Pioli are sold on the spread.

I'm right with you in wanting a balanced offense, as teams that are unable to run the ball in running situations create a big obstacle for themselves to try and overcome.

But I am preparing myself for a few seasons of the spread offense.

Canada
02-28-2009, 09:51 PM
Well, if you haven't seen the Pats and Cardinals' offenses recently, it is pretty much the same as what we had last season.

Balanced offense is not something that exists on either of those teams. And probably won't with us in '09.

Thank god we are going into the '09 season then!! :D

honda522
02-28-2009, 09:54 PM
I think there should be a competition. Thiggy earned atleast a competition this year.

chief31
02-28-2009, 09:54 PM
Thank god we are going into the '09 season then!! :D

Errrr... whatever do you mean?

chiefnut
02-28-2009, 10:15 PM
as long as we are comparing stats look at the last 10 games of 2008
thigpen 2216 yds pass 16tds 8 int, 325 yds rush 2tds 84.14 rating

cassel 2598 yds pass 15tds 7int, 211 yds rush 2 tds 91.01 rating

not a huge difference considering the pats advantage in quality players , receivers and coaching....i don't know if that is worth a 2nd round pick for the differnce.

Canada
02-28-2009, 10:27 PM
It will be if we stop using a spread Offense, Thiggy will be left in the dirt.

I am curious, but how do you know this since you have never actually seen him try and play without the spread?? Everyone seems to know that Thigpen can't run a pro style offence but they have no real evidence to back up that opinion. And don't give me the Oakland or Atlanta games as an example. He got thrown into the mix with no notice. With a full year of preparation I don't see why he couldn't succeed.

chief31
02-28-2009, 10:39 PM
It will be if we stop using a spread Offense, Thiggy will be left in the dirt.

And how is Thigpens situation different from Cassels? How many games has Cassel started without a spread offense?

Have a look at how The Pats play offense. They have been running the spread since '07.

Lazeye
02-28-2009, 11:10 PM
We could design a new Off style with two qb's on the field at the same time if you line Thig up as WR. we could throw the ball all over the place. Just a thought, things do happen to the game all the time to advance the game.

yashi
02-28-2009, 11:14 PM
We could design a new Off style with two qb's on the field at the same time if you line Thig up as WR. we could throw the ball all over the place. Just a thought, things do happen to the game all the time to advance the game.
or better yet.. Thigpen is the 1st half QB and Cassel is the 2nd half QB!

hermhater
02-28-2009, 11:15 PM
Well this is certainly a lively thread.

chiefnut
02-28-2009, 11:18 PM
Something tells me coming from USC he has been in a situation that had him not performing or learning how to use some type of Offense other than a spread offense. I can't comment on Thiggy's college career as he is from Coastal Carolina (Basically Jays Truck Driving School compared to USC)

at least Thigpen started and stared at his little coastal carolina, cassel never started a single game at usc, so how do YOU know he has any experience running a pro style offense???

yashi
02-28-2009, 11:22 PM
at least Thigpen started and stared at his little coastal carolina, cassel never started a single game at usc, so how do YOU know he has any experience running a pro style offense???
Nobody can deny that Cassel is a risky addition. He's only seen significant playing time in 1 season, and he had the services of Randy Moss and Wes Welker along with a great coaching staff helping him along the way, not to mention backing up the best QB in the league for 3 years. He's also shown a tendency to hold onto the ball for way too long because he was sacked more than any other QB.

With the bad comes the good. He's very accurate, both in the pocket and on the run, good mobility and ability to hit receivers deep. He also seems to be very durable.

I'm skeptical to sign him to a big contract before next season, but I can't wait to see how he does.

DT14PRIEST
02-28-2009, 11:32 PM
at least Thigpen started and stared at his little coastal carolina, cassel never started a single game at usc, so how do YOU know he has any experience running a pro style offense???

They're both called the spread offense and both used in the NFL but the Chiefs ran a more college oriented spread style while the Pats run some hybrid spread/flex style.

But then again they're both spread offense so take it at face value.

They run the spread in the NFL so it has to be pro style right?

hermhater
02-28-2009, 11:53 PM
Cassel to Tyler and Vrabel = 100% TD rate.

We are set.

prough91
03-01-2009, 01:09 AM
I was soooo super pissed when I saw we traded our 2nd for Cassel. We need alot more help than a QB. It should be way down on our list of priorities.

DT14PRIEST
03-01-2009, 01:22 AM
That is true, we can bicker over the truths of this but the truth is only true from ones point of view.
Some people seem to forget that all of thesets used in the Pros are just that but, tell me what you call these sets,
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2009/02/44.jpg
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2009/02/45.jpg
I am not an Offensive minded person , I know defense much better.

Spread on top and pro set variations on the bottom

At the end of the day it doesnt matter to me what offense we run, Im not here to argue that it just needs to work and work effectively.

So Cassel takes the helm of whatever Haley/Gailey's creation is. As long as it works and works effectively in all situations from 2 minute drill to eating up the clock Im all for anything

prough91
03-01-2009, 01:34 AM
We actually did get more we also got Vrabel LB . Both men will make instant impact as they will both start and have been part of a team that has been to a SUperbowl (Cassell) and won 3 Superbowls (Vrabel) so in a sense this is a good thing as we get 2 starters instead of using a second round draft pick in the draft for a unknown comodity.

I would be more impressed if Cassell was throwing the football to win the Superbowl instead of holding the clipboard.

imcorrect
03-01-2009, 01:42 AM
I'm sorry, but any of you that think thig is starting next year have no clue

prough91
03-01-2009, 01:46 AM
I'm sorry, but any of you that think thig is starting next year have no clue

Only cause after Thig outplays Cassell in the preseason, they'll have to play Cassell so they don't look like dumb @sses.

DT14PRIEST
03-01-2009, 01:55 AM
Only cause after Thig outplays Cassell in the preseason, they'll have to play Cassell so they don't look like dumb @sses.

That'd be pretty bad. But I never really did jump on the Thigpen bandwagon at any point even though he was fun to watch towards the end of the season. Never could see his water pistol of an arm give us any sort of down field threat...Just couldnt quite throw the ball far enough :P

Cassel lead the way!

leaves
03-01-2009, 11:47 AM
That'd be pretty bad. But I never really did jump on the Thigpen bandwagon at any point even though he was fun to watch towards the end of the season. Never could see his water pistol of an arm give us any sort of down field threat...Just couldnt quite throw the ball far enough :P

Cassel lead the way!

Cassel's not a deep thrower. You see how many short passes were done to Randy Moss. That's why Welker was so productive. Cassel's a better pocket passer, Thig's just a mobile qb. I'm wondering if were gonna end up drafting a wr in the 1st 3 rounds cuz should Cassel reach a deep wr, Bowe's about 30-40% chance of dropping it.

DT14PRIEST
03-01-2009, 02:09 PM
Cassel's not a deep thrower. You see how many short passes were done to Randy Moss.

Yes but he was able to stretch the field when necessary. While the majority of his throws were within the short to itermediate ranged Cassel has the arm strength to launch the long ball.

I will say that Thigpen is a little more shifty then Thigpen though but thats just due to the nature of his play style (he was RB/WR/PR in HS) Cassel is an above average mobile quarterback though and a more polished passer right now.

I wonder if either of them though could throw a mean block like Trent 'flatfoot' Green could.

warcrychief
03-01-2009, 05:05 PM
I dont know what everyone is talking about, he looks like he has enough arm strength to me.

YouTube - Matt Cassel 2008 Tribute

okikcfan
03-01-2009, 05:17 PM
Pioli now has he QB of the future, now he will build his offense around Cassell. I dont think he is done with the FA. Curry will be a good fit at 3rd pick. Trust me. I knew they would pick up a QB tho, I didnt think it would be Cassell. Most of the draft picks will be offensivebut Curry is too good to pass up......

warcrychief
03-01-2009, 06:08 PM
The man has a few cool moments in that video like the drop kicking of the ball out of the shotgun formation putting the ball at the 2 yd line. Then he threw it from the Pats 25 to the oppossing teams 22 yd line in a bomb TD. No doubt he has a stronger arm than Thiggy.

Yeah that coffin corner kick puts him over the top lol

KottkeKU
03-01-2009, 06:32 PM
the best part of that video is when they are showing the Patriots vs. Broncos highlights and its 27-0 (Patriots...obviously) and then Welker dives in the endzone for another TD lol....Broncos defense was possibly worse than ours last year...

warcrychief
03-02-2009, 07:48 PM
Chiefs | Haley says Cassel will not be handed starting job
Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:19:08 -0800
Adam Teicher (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/link/143), of The Kansas City Star (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/link/142), reports Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/team/21/nfl) head coach Todd Haley (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/player/14112/nfl) said QB Matt Cassel (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/player/12088/nfl) will not be handed the starting job and QB Tyler Thigpen (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/player/16635/nfl) will get the opportunity to win the job.
www.kffl.com (http://www.kffl.com)

:sign0153:

BallHawk92
03-02-2009, 09:32 PM
Thigpen no question the QB wasn't the reason we lost so many games he put up the numbers with limited WR and o line help to win games but the D cost to us lose. matt had high qualilty players around him I just don't think he is going to able to win in KC

Hayvern
03-02-2009, 09:42 PM
Chiefs | Haley says Cassel will not be handed starting job
Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:19:08 -0800
Adam Teicher (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/link/143), of The Kansas City Star (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/link/142), reports Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/team/21/nfl) head coach Todd Haley (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/player/14112/nfl) said QB Matt Cassel (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/player/12088/nfl) will not be handed the starting job and QB Tyler Thigpen (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/player/16635/nfl) will get the opportunity to win the job.
www.kffl.com (http://www.kffl.com)

:sign0153:

Sorry, I love Thiggy and I hope there is truly a competition, but in reality, there is very little chance that Thiggy is going to be the starting QB this season. This is just a formality to show how the management wants to be fair.

Guys, we might say that no matter what it needs to be a fair competition, but in reality, a 15 million per year QB will not be riding the bench come start of the season.

Hayvern
03-02-2009, 09:51 PM
This is untrue. Going by stats alone for the 2008 season

Chiefs OLine allowed 37 Sacks

Pats OLine allowed 48 Sacks

That doesn't equate to better oline for NE in my books.



Actually when you consider how many plays from scrimmage each team had, they are pretty even. I think the main difference is the spread offense we moved to later on. The Patriots has 1095 plays from scrimmage for a sack average of 4.2% The Chiefs had 957 plays with an average of 3.8 percent.

There is no question that the Patriots line is so much better than ours. I would not even start to compare sacks as being the only indicator of who has a better line. We went to the spread for just this reason.

mann1634
03-02-2009, 09:54 PM
Ithink they are almost the same ,if Thigpen would have been a pat. and Cassel would have been a CHIEF last year I bet the teams records would not have been any different.Cassel will start, money money money!

yashi
03-02-2009, 09:54 PM
Pats line is way better, regardless of sack totals. Cassel generally had a lot of time to throw, but has a tendency to hold onto the ball too long.

yashi
03-03-2009, 09:13 AM
I don't understand how you base your opinion. The OLine is totaly rated by the sack total and amount of yards their RBs can get. If they allowed 47 sacks to the chiefs 36, then that means in pass protection the Chiefs OLine is 11 sacks better than the Pats line.Now you can say that there is a difference when it comes to rushing yards.
Rushing Yards by team,
----

New England Patriots (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE) 16| 25.6| 410| 513| 32.1| 2,278
----
Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) 16| 18.2| 291| 379| 23.7| 1,810
----
By the numbers they out rushed our OLine and RBs , now that can be a combination of things like WR's blocking better down field as well as their OLine just basically doing what they are supposse to which in such case should make it easier for them to pass the ball. Fact is it should have taken the pressure off of the QB but since they allowed 47 sacks , I am left with the notion that their line just has trouble protecting the QB in passing situations, infact this tells me that our OLine definately is better than the Pats in passing situations because the Chiefs only got 1,810 yards to the Pats 2,278 yards in rushing.
Passing Stats by Team,
----

New England Patriots (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE) 16| 25.6| 410| 339| 534| 63.5| 33.4| 3,569
----

Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) 16| 18.2| 291| 310| 541| 57.3| 33.8| 3,129
----
Both teams are actually very even in pass yards with only roughly 400 yards seperating them. The Pats scored 7 more points per game by the pass ,the Chiefs threw the ball more times with less completions and less yards so basically the difference between the lines are not on the passing side but the Rushing side of the stats . Numbers speak for themself here , they can't be denied. I just hope that we can improve this over the off-season by picking up some OLine help either in FA or the draft.

You're making two assumptions.

a.) The RBs on both teams are equal in talent.
b.) Thigpen and Cassel have the same ability to evade the pass rush.

Over the past 2 days I watched the Pats week 11 and week 12 games in their entirety, and I watched every Chiefs game this season. I don't recall Thigpen ever getting the time to throw I was seeing Cassel get. Brady was only sacked 21 times in 2007. Also, compare the number of times Cassel was sacked in the 1st half vs the 2nd. There was an adjustment period there.

Maybe "way better" was an overstatement. But you can't go by statistics here.

I think Cassel's a better quarterback overall, but I'm for certain that Thigpen is better at avoiding getting sacked. And it can't hurt that he often had a RB lined up behind him in shotgun... even if it was LJ.

yashi
03-03-2009, 10:15 AM
I never stated anything regarding RB comparison nor did I mention anything about Tylers ability to avoid the rush. My comment was strictly about OLine ability and I believe it is you who is assuming things which I don't know if you realize , when somebody assumes things, it makes an A$$ out of U and me.
This is why I was discussing stats as they speak for themselves and leaves no room for assumption. ;)
erm... :/ but going strictly by number of times sacked can be misleading. I can stand behind the Titans or Giants OL and fall down every play and lead the NFL in sacks. Doesn't mean the line is bad.

Is a bag of Skittles better for you than a bowl of Wheaties since it has less calories? No.. because that would be assuming caloric content is the only variable in the equation. Same with rating an offensive line. :)

Bike
03-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Cassel had Billecheck, Thig had Herm.
Herm couldn't game plan or make half-time adjustments.
Herm couldn't coach.
That alone should entice you to throw stats out the window when comparing these 2 guys.

Bike
03-03-2009, 11:10 AM
Stats are how everyone ligit measures how good a team is , it reflects everything including the inability of coaching ;)
I understand what you're sayin'. I'm saying you can't compare these 2 guys statistically until they are in the same environment. This might be a good topic at the end of this next season!!
Having said that, its nice to have 2 very good qb's to debate over!!!
NOW WE NEED A DEFENSE:bananen_smilies046:

chief31
03-03-2009, 01:28 PM
That is true, we can bicker over the truths of this but the truth is only true from ones point of view.
Some people seem to forget that all of thesets used in the Pros are just that but, tell me what you call these sets,
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2009/02/44.jpg
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2009/02/45.jpg
I am not an Offensive minded person , I know defense much better.

The first is a basic Single Back formation.

The second is called a Pro Set.

And the third is my favorite. 12 players on the field.

Let's go with that third one as often as we can. :D

The spread offense isn't a formation though. It's a style of offense that uses certain formations more often than others.

Similar to the "Tampa-2" style of defense. It's just a defense that uses the basic cover-2 zone almost exclusively.

If you are running a base 4-3 defense and rarely blitz, using primarily zone coverage, then you are running the "Tampa-2" defense.

If you are using alot of three and four wide sets, with one back on offense, then you are running a "spread Offense".

These offense and defense names are really just about the tendancy to run specific formations and basic philosophies like "run to set-up the pass" and "pass to set-up the run".

Codac
03-03-2009, 03:58 PM
No. Pioli didn't trade a 2nd rounder to bring his QB in just to have him compete with a guy who went 1-9 last year.

Whether you agree or not, Cassel is our starter.

Now that I think about it your right. He brought him here to play and to win. But if our line can't keep the DL in check and Cassel goes down continuously, Thigpen will share snaps, maybe even take the job. It all depends on the OL in my opinion.

PatsFan4Chiefs
03-08-2009, 03:59 PM
One thing to remember is that Cassel learned at the feet of Belichick and Brady. Brady has been quoted often, without contradiction by Belichick, as saying that he approaches every Offseason and comes to every Training Camp with the mindset that he has to fight for his job, even with three Rings, two SB MVP's and a League MVP under his belt.

I think you can assume that Matt is already taking the same attitude. It doesn't matter whether Haley calls it a "competition" or not, Cassel will be working out and practicing as though he's on the verge of being cut. It's the Belichick Way. After Herm Edwards, it will take a little getting used to.