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View Full Version : Does this mean 3-4?



jap1
02-28-2009, 04:31 PM
So with the pickup of Mike Vrabel, does this mean we are going to a 3-4?

If so, right now our defense needs a whole host of new players.

LB:
The way I see it we have two LBs right now. DJ and Vrabel. Not sure if DJ will play OLB or ILB. Either way we need two LBs. Since Vrabel is an OLB, maybe that means we are going to put DJ on the opposite side and get an ILB.

DL
Here is the biggest problem. I dont think we have a big enough guy to be a NT. I think we can "get by" with Dorsey at one DE (only because he has the speed to be used to get up the field). Maybe we can use Hali and Tank as a combo at the other DE. I dont think Hali has the size to be a 3-4 DE. I dont think Tank is quick enough for a 3-4 DE. I dont think Hali fits anywhere really well. I think the rest of the guys we have will be decent to use as depth.

So we need: 2 LBs, a NT, and a 3-4 DE.

Chris Canty could be a good pickup, and I dont think he will come too expensive.

The NT could be Raji from the draft.

As far as LBs we may look to use some of the guys we currently have on the roster (Pat Thomas, Demorrio Williams, Rocky Boiman) to fill those spots.

We may see someone like Hali who doesnt fit well used as trade bait to other teams. Who knows.

yashi
02-28-2009, 04:40 PM
Basically I'm 99.9% sure we're going to the 3-4 based on Vrabel and Schefter's reports a few weeks ago.

Dorsey will shift to DE. Tank will play NT if we don't acquire a natural NT (remember he was the strongest player in his draft class). Hali will likely transition to OLB opposite Vrabel. I think we'll acquire 1 more starting ILB. DJ will play inside next year.

We draft either Monroe, J.Smith, Raji, or Curry. A good case could be made for any of them.

So yeah.. we need 1 more LB and a 3-4 DE at the least, most likely an NT as well.

Coach
02-28-2009, 04:40 PM
I think Vrabel coming to the Chiefs signals the move to a 3-4 or a hybrid of some kind.

Drunker Hillbilly
02-28-2009, 04:42 PM
I think Vrabel solidified running a 3-4 most of the time. They may run a variation of some sort once in a while but 3-4 will be the staple defense.

jap1
02-28-2009, 04:50 PM
Basically I'm 99.9% sure we're going to the 3-4 based on Vrabel and Schefter's reports a few weeks ago.

Dorsey will shift to DE. Tank will play NT if we don't acquire a natural NT (remember he was the strongest player in his draft class). Hali will likely transition to OLB opposite Vrabel. I think we'll acquire 1 more starting ILB. DJ will play inside next year.

We draft either Monroe, J.Smith, Raji, or Curry. A good case could be made for any of them.

So yeah.. we need 1 more LB and a 3-4 DE at the least, most likely an NT as well.

I see why people think Hali can play OLB, he has the physical skills. My problem is the technique that he would have to learn. DE and OLB are very different in that OLBs have to do a lot more reading of the backfield. They also have to cover. Those are things that Hali hasnt done in the NFL, and I dont think he did that in college either. He basically would be learning a whole new position.

If we go 3-4, I think he would be more valuable as trade bait, unfortunately. I think he is a talented 4-3 DE.

AussieChiefsFan
02-28-2009, 07:02 PM
I see why people think Hali can play OLB, he has the physical skills. My problem is the technique that he would have to learn. DE and OLB are very different in that OLBs have to do a lot more reading of the backfield. They also have to cover. Those are things that Hali hasnt done in the NFL, and I dont think he did that in college either. He basically would be learning a whole new position.

If we go 3-4, I think he would be more valuable as trade bait, unfortunately. I think he is a talented 4-3 DE.your right it is a very different position. I think we should try out the 3-4 defense and keep Hali as DE or DT (whatever works out better) and see how everything works out.

josh1971
03-01-2009, 02:42 PM
The NT could be Raji from the draft.

As far as LBs we may look to use some of the guys we currently have on the roster (Pat Thomas, Demorrio Williams, Rocky Boiman) to fill those spots.

We may see someone like Hali who doesnt fit well used as trade bait to other teams. Who knows.

I think Raji from the draft is a much better option than Curry, but that's just one guy's opinion. I know we haven't had a great record with DT's in the draft, and that our needs are many, but a drain plug in the middle of the D-line is essential in a 3-4, and if we're going to that (no official word on that, is there?) then we'll need a suitable guy for that.

Of all our linebackers not named Derrick Johnson last year, Boiman was the one guy I was pleased with, from watching the games.

The DE we have that intrigues me, because we didn't really see much of him, was Babin. I'd be interested to see if he can be useful to us in the new regime.

jb

Chief Tyler
03-01-2009, 02:50 PM
Don't forget Ron Brace who played next to Raji. He's just as big, not quite as fast, but still a good prospect. If we're able to get some good talent on the OL in FA, going 1,2 on the defensive side wouldn't be a bad choice imo. Curry first, trade back up to get into the second and get a solid nose tackle in Brace. The only scary thing is that maybe he suffers from the RyanSimmsdrome and is made to look better than he really is due to who he plays with.

yashi
03-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Here's the thing.. 3-4 DE is very different from 4-3 DE. 3-4 DEs are basically DT/DE hybrids who are very good run stoppers and are much larger than 4-3 DEs. Hali's best attribute is his pass rushing ability off the edge, which would best be served at OLB. He's already slightly undersized as a 4-3 DE, much less a 3-4 DE. Maybe he can't drop into coverage, so have him blitz more often than not. Joey Porter was blitzing practically every play for the Dolphins last year.

jmlamerson
03-01-2009, 03:56 PM
Here's the thing.. 3-4 DE is very different from 4-3 DE. 3-4 DEs are basically DT/DE hybrids who are very good run stoppers and are much larger than 4-3 DEs. Hali's best attribute is his pass rushing ability off the edge, which would best be served at OLB. He's already slightly undersized as a 4-3 DE, much less a 3-4 DE. Maybe he can't drop into coverage, so have him blitz more often than not. Joey Porter was blitzing practically every play for the Dolphins last year.

Or look at Terrell Suggs. He managed to make the move in one season. Hali might be able to do so too.

jap1
03-01-2009, 04:08 PM
I think Raji from the draft is a much better option than Curry, but that's just one guy's opinion. I know we haven't had a great record with DT's in the draft, and that our needs are many, but a drain plug in the middle of the D-line is essential in a 3-4, and if we're going to that (no official word on that, is there?) then we'll need a suitable guy for that.

Of all our linebackers not named Derrick Johnson last year, Boiman was the one guy I was pleased with, from watching the games.

The DE we have that intrigues me, because we didn't really see much of him, was Babin. I'd be interested to see if he can be useful to us in the new regime.

jb

I kinda forgot about Babin. He was originally a DE, moved to OLB by the Texans, and then traded to Seattle where he got cut. I know he was pretty decent as an OLB, so maybe they have plans to move him back there, at least as a backup in rotation.

I also dont know about guys like Brian Johnston and Mcbride. Not sure where they would fit in. They probably would only work in rotation or for certain packages (i.e. 3rd and long get after the QB type of situations).

chiefnut
03-01-2009, 04:19 PM
your right it is a very different position. I think we should try out the 3-4 defense and keep Hali as DE or DT (whatever works out better) and see how everything works out.
in a 3-4 the DE is basicaly a DT, they need to be bigger, and stronger than a 4-3 DE and stout against the run. Hali is a little small for the 3-4 but has been good against the run and pursues well from the backside. although he has never played a tru LB he may do well on the inside as he has dropped into pass coverage before at PSU but i don't think has quite enuf outside speed. but as a run stuffer and blitzer from ILB he can be quite effective.:beer:

yashi
03-01-2009, 04:24 PM
I know that Hali being transformed into a huge rushing OLB but the fact is when it comes to doing the other responsibilities of a OLB he is lacking the experience to do it. He has been a DE his College and Pro careers and for him to now be put in a situation where he has to drop back in coverage , I just don't feel that he has the tangibles to get the job doe. I could be wrong but until I see him do it with some skill I will feel this is the only reason he wouldn't perform up to our needs.
Or maybe he wouldn't be put in those situations where he has to drop back.. he could be in the game blitzing most of the time, and when he's not they could sub in someone like Demorrio Williams. Coaches do this all the time. Big NTs are removed from the game on passing downs.

SDChief09
03-01-2009, 05:33 PM
Hali becomes a 3-4 OLB or hes traded, simple as that, you cant have Hali and Turk sitting on the bench with absolutely no role...not BOTH of them

rodu
03-01-2009, 07:39 PM
What would be a reasonable trade value for Hali?

AussieChiefsFan
03-01-2009, 07:42 PM
What would be a reasonable trade value for Hali?I don't know. i'm guessing $20-$30 mill

{hay i'm only guessing}

KristofLaw
03-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Hali becomes a 3-4 OLB or hes traded, simple as that, you cant have Hali and Turk sitting on the bench with absolutely no role...not BOTH of them
Sure they sit on the bench in a rotational situation. If we move to a 3-4 they'll need to be evaluated sure. But getting rid of them doesn't make any sense.

jmlamerson
03-01-2009, 07:42 PM
What would be a reasonable trade value for Hali?

My guess? Late 3rd, early 4th is the best we could do. It may just be better to try him at 3-4 LB than to trade him that low.