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BallHawk92
04-12-2009, 12:43 AM
with matt now in the line up at QB it's going to be one fight for starter thigpen proved himself last season croyle shows flashs here and there do you guys think that their will be a legit chance for croyle and thigpen to take the job or are they just going to hand the job to matt. I know they already said it's anyones job but I don't belive that. I personal think if croyle stays heathy he is are best bet.

Coach
04-12-2009, 12:45 AM
Croyle our best bet???????? Are you serious???????? Have you been watching the Chiefs for the past 2 seasons. His best games were when he didn't play.

I think there will be competition, but it's Cassell's job to lose.

Vanilla Garilla
04-12-2009, 12:48 AM
Croyle cannot stay healthy at all, this man has been riddled with injuries since high school, and he will never be able to complete a season, so NO! Thigpen will have to come out and be amazing in the pre season. This trade for Cassel was done to make him our premier quarterback, so Im pretty sure thats who it will be.

And you really think Croyle is better than Matt?

jmlamerson
04-12-2009, 12:48 AM
with matt now in the line up at QB it's going to be one fight for starter thigpen proved himself last season croyle shows flashs here and there do you guys think that their will be a legit chance for croyle and thigpen to take the job or are they just going to hand the job to matt. I know they already said it's anyones job but I don't belive that. I personal think if croyle stays heathy he is are best bet.

Yeah, no offense but this is nuts. Croyle stinks. Cassel's our starter - he'll be signed long term sometime before the regular season. Thigpen is a gadget guy and decent backup. He'll be trade bait in 2010. Croyle will be cut preseason. And that's just the way it is.

Coach
04-12-2009, 12:50 AM
And that's just the way it is.

Oh, in that case...

jmlamerson
04-12-2009, 12:51 AM
Oh, in that case...

Someone had to tell him the way it is. And those Croyle-shippers need the cold backhand of truth.

BallHawk92
04-12-2009, 12:52 AM
how long has croyle been with the chiefs about 3 yrs we are giving up on him to soon once we establish a good o-line were he is not under pressure every play then croyle will shine. I know it's hard to believe but you'll see

jmlamerson
04-12-2009, 12:55 AM
how long has croyle been with the chiefs about 3 yrs we are giving up on him to soon once we establish a good o-line were he is not under pressure every play then croyle will shine. I know it's hard to believe but you'll see

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath.

It's a whole lot more likely Croyle never plays another NFL down.

Three years is just long enough to give up on someone as a bust.

Vanilla Garilla
04-12-2009, 12:57 AM
Yeah, I'm not holding my breath. It's a whole lot more likely Croyle never plays another NFL down.Three years is just long enough to give up on someone as a bust.

Yeah, Croyle comes in as the #3 top draft busts in the last decade. The man just cant stay healthy, cannot make good decisions, and is not going to make it as a starting quarterback in the NFL.

DT14PRIEST
04-12-2009, 01:03 AM
how long has croyle been with the chiefs about 3 yrs we are giving up on him to soon once we establish a good o-line were he is not under pressure every play then croyle will shine. I know it's hard to believe but you'll see

I doubt it but maybe. He never really did anything in College and ever since he was drafted he's never proved he could handle the game at the next level. Even with a solid O-Line I still have doubts about his durability. He's a glass cannon.

honda522
04-12-2009, 01:24 AM
I really don't know why we cut Quinn Grey. We should of cut Broky.

I bet they felt sorry for Croyle....putting him behind the awful line and letting the $h!t get beat out of him.

AussieChiefsFan
04-12-2009, 02:14 AM
Croyle our best bet???????? Are you serious???????? Have you been watching the Chiefs for the past 2 seasons. His best games were when he didn't play.

I think there will be competition, but it's Cassell's job to lose.
I agree with you about Croyle. But I think Cassell will most probably win the place for starter.

Chief Tyler
04-12-2009, 02:19 AM
Croyle would never shine even throwing behind the Great Wall to baby Jesus in a golden chariot. I've got a bunch of family and friends that are huge Bama fans/alum, and they saw nothing but NFL disappointment out of him before the NFL was ever a thought in his mind, so I'll stick with my roots and say that the Croyle train stopped rolling (did it ever start?) 2 years ago.

AussieChiefsFan
04-12-2009, 02:24 AM
Croyle would never shine even throwing behind the Great Wall to baby Jesus in a golden chariot. I've got a bunch of family and friends that are huge Bama fans/alum, and they saw nothing but NFL disappointment out of him before the NFL was ever a thought in his mind, so I'll stick with my roots and say that the Croyle train stopped rolling (did it ever start?) 2 years ago.
Since that I am very young I do not have much nolidge of how well Brodie Croyle did in Collage. I don't assume that he did any better than his Pro career but I could be wrong.

Hayvern
04-12-2009, 02:35 AM
how long has croyle been with the chiefs about 3 yrs we are giving up on him to soon once we establish a good o-line were he is not under pressure every play then croyle will shine. I know it's hard to believe but you'll see

Seriously, Croyle has his chance and he blew it. I don't care who is on the line, you have to be able to take a hit. Thigpen came in and was able to work behind the same line that Croyle had and was able to play everyday.

Think about last season for jeepers sake. He had the starting role wrapped up, it was his, but he could not outplay Huard and guess who started the season. Nope, Croyle has been measured, he has been weighed and he has been found wanting.

jimmphue
04-12-2009, 06:49 AM
how long has croyle been with the chiefs about 3 yrs we are giving up on him to soon once we establish a good o-line were he is not under pressure every play then croyle will shine. I know it's hard to believe but you'll see
How many quarterbacks are given 3 years, thats an eternity in the NFL. Look at David Carrs rookies season with all those sacks & never got hurt. The only thing that is going to shine is Croyle's wheelchair!:wheelchair:

Ldub
04-12-2009, 08:59 AM
His body is made of glass. Croyle is just to breakable to be a starting NFL QB.

Vanilla Garilla
04-12-2009, 09:54 AM
Since that I am very young I do not have much nolidge of how well Brodie Croyle did in Collage. I don't assume that he did any better than his Pro career but I could be wrong.

Croyle actually did fairly well in college. He broke practically all of Alabama's passing records, and had flashes of brilliance. Lets just say this, when his football days are all over, some of his best times will have definitely been spent in Alabama.

AkChief49
04-12-2009, 05:17 PM
Cassel will start inked thigpen is amazing and does far better 14mil and bench I don't think so
???????just what are you trying to say?????

pbatrucker
04-13-2009, 01:07 AM
Cassel will start inked thigpen is amazing and does far better 14mil and bench I don't think so
:sign0153: Paoli and Haley have stated they want compitition at every position. The reason we went to the spread last year was TT didn't have the footwork required to be an effective drop back passer.
If TT did the right thing and worked on this flaw during the off season, we will have MC and TT competing for the starting job. If he didn't the job is Cassell's.
Before anyone argues that Cassell played from a spread at NE, yes he did, as well as under center and shotgun.
:11:

chief31
04-13-2009, 05:06 AM
It is unreal how this places opinion's change.

Most everyone was all aboard the Croyle express two years ago.

And I said "get him some blockers first, so we don't ruin his career."

The mobs said "Throw him in! We have to see what we've got!"

I said "You won't get to see anything, if you throw him out there against NFL teams, without an NFL O-line."

So they throw him out there without blockers, and he gets destroyed.

And now, without ever having seen him play on an NFL offense, the Crowd has stamped him as a flop and worthless.

I have been waiting for three years to see the man get a chance, and the masses, who were so excited about him, are done with him, before ever getting a peak.

UN





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LIEVABLE.

AussieChiefsFan
04-13-2009, 05:12 AM
It is unreal how this places opinion's change.

Most everyone was all aboard the Croyle express two years ago.

And I said "get him some blockers first, so we don't ruin his career."

The mobs said "Throw him in! We have to see what we've got!"

I said "You won't get to see anything, if you throw him out there against NFL teams, without an NFL O-line."

So they throw him out there without blockers, and he gets destroyed.

And now, without ever having seen him play on an NFL offense, the Crowd has stamped him as a flop and worthless.

I have been waiting for three years to see the man get a chance, and the masses, who were so excited about him, are done with him, before ever getting a peak.

UN





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LIEVABLE.The point is that he is to vulnerable to injury and has became a waste of Cap room. We have nothing against him as a person. He is probably has a great personality and is probably a pleasure to have a conversation with. But as I said he needs to spend too much time on the bench and the Chiefs are still needing to pay him.

chief31
04-13-2009, 05:53 AM
The point is that he is to vulnerable to injury and has became a waste of Cap room. We have nothing against him as a person. He is probably has a great personality and is probably a pleasure to have a conversation with. But as I said he needs to spend too much time on the bench and the Chiefs are still needing to pay him.

Everybody is too vulnerable to injury when they play QB with a Herm Edwards offense.

I'm not saying he is great, or even might be great. I have never seen him play with a decent O-line. So I can't judge.

AussieChiefsFan
04-13-2009, 06:01 AM
Everybody is too vulnerable to injury when they play QB with a Herm Edwards offense.

I'm not saying he is great, or even might be great. I have never seen him play with a decent O-line. So I can't judge.
Sure, he was unlucky to play when Herm Edwards was HC but I still believe that Matt Cassell or evan Tyler Thigpen are better choices of QB for the team.

chief31
04-13-2009, 06:04 AM
Sure, he was unlucky to play when Herm Edwards was HC but I still believe that Matt Cassell or evan Tyler Thigpen are better choices of QB for the team.

You may be right.

I just find it amazing how the masses turn on the guy, without ever seeing him play a down with an NFL offense.

I wasn't the one who was putting my chips down on him then. But I am not about to put my foot down on him now.

AussieChiefsFan
04-13-2009, 06:09 AM
You may be right.

I just find it amazing how the masses turn on the guy, without ever seeing him play a down with an NFL offense.

I wasn't the one who was putting my chips down on him then. But I am not about to put my foot down on him now.Neither am I, but I still wouldn't like to have him a a too highly played or valued player, evan though he might re-prove himself aventually, possibly while playing for anther NFL team. Don't get the impression that I have a grudge against him though.:bananen_smilies046:

chief31
04-13-2009, 06:13 AM
Neither am I, but I still wouldn't like to have him a a too highly played or valued player, evan though he might re-prove himself aventually, possibly while playing for anther NFL team. Don't get the impression that I have a grudge against him though.:bananen_smilies046:

I don't have that impression form anyone. Just a mob of Crowders, that has changed their opinion so drastically.

The faces in the crowd have changed alot over the past two years.

AussieChiefsFan
04-13-2009, 06:19 AM
I don't have that impression form anyone. Just a mob of Crowders, that has changed their opinion so drastically.

The faces in the crowd have changed alot over the past two years.
I only joined this great site this January so I'm not very farmilar with people's opinions from when Croyle played.

Three7s
04-13-2009, 07:04 AM
Croyle isn't as bad as people are making him out to be. When he wasn't injured he was completing the majority of his passes. I think the fact that he'd be 3rd string says something about our depth.

AussieChiefsFan
04-13-2009, 07:11 AM
Croyle isn't as bad as people are making him out to be. When he wasn't injured he was completing the majority of his passes. I think the fact that he'd be 3rd string says something about our depth.
He was a good QB when he wasn't injured but he was injured a lot of the time. So it's as if he didn't complete any passes over a whole year. 0 throwes, 0 catches.

tornadospotter
04-13-2009, 08:04 AM
It is unreal how this places opinion's change.

Most everyone was all aboard the Croyle express two years ago.

And I said "get him some blockers first, so we don't ruin his career."

The mobs said "Throw him in! We have to see what we've got!"

I said "You won't get to see anything, if you throw him out there against NFL teams, without an NFL O-line."

So they throw him out there without blockers, and he gets destroyed.

And now, without ever having seen him play on an NFL offense, the Crowd has stamped him as a flop and worthless.

I have been waiting for three years to see the man get a chance, and the masses, who were so excited about him, are done with him, before ever getting a peak.

UN





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LIEVABLE.
The entire crowd? Excuse me. Did I not get the survey. Stop lumping all into your opinion.:11:


Croyle did have a NFL O-Line, sure it was not as good as we would like, but he had a line. This is the NFL, you have to be able to play, take a hit, some people can and do not get injured. Croyle has not yet.

Vandelay
04-13-2009, 11:11 AM
Everybody is too vulnerable to injury when they play QB with a Herm Edwards offense.

I'm not saying he is great, or even might be great. I have never seen him play with a decent O-line. So I can't judge.
I very much wanted Croyle to succseed for the Chiefs. He's a likeable guy and his family does great things for kids. But you can't build a team around a guy that can't stay healthy. Yes the O-line was awfull, but even with the best line in the league, your going to have to take a hit ocasonally, Croyle hasn't proved he can do that. Thigpen took some huge hits last year, and always got up, and Cassel wasn't behind a stellar O-line either but he stayed healthy. I hope things work out for Brody, but it may have to be elswhere.

Hayvern
04-13-2009, 11:25 AM
You may be right.

I just find it amazing how the masses turn on the guy, without ever seeing him play a down with an NFL offense.

I wasn't the one who was putting my chips down on him then. But I am not about to put my foot down on him now.

Well, I am one of those that wanted to see him play. I am also one of the few that stayed with him after the 2007 season, wanting to see him do well in the 2008 season.

After watching him in 2007 compete for a starting job, but unable to seal it and make it his own, there were lots of calls then to not start him. When Huard got injured, we put in Croyle, and it was his job from then on. There were a lot of injuries in 2007 because the line sucked so I stood by him, hoping to see him play better.

Last year, 2008, it was his job to lose. Well, injuries plagued him, he never finished a game he started. Sure he took some knocks. Huard took some knocks too, but he is old.

Thigpen came in behind the same line and took the same knocks that Croyle took and managed to play out the season.

Face it, QBs are going to get hit, even if they are not sacked, they still get hit. I wanted to see Croyle be the future, but you have to admit that he is pretty injury prone and that is always going to be a liability no matter what offensive line you put him behind.

billb40
04-13-2009, 12:17 PM
I will be very surprised if M. C. is not our starting QB. Injury would be the only thing preventing this. No problem with the other two but a team does not give up what the Chiefs did to set M. C. on the bench.

jmlamerson
04-13-2009, 12:24 PM
It is unreal how this places opinion's change.

Most everyone was all aboard the Croyle express two years ago.

And I said "get him some blockers first, so we don't ruin his career."

The mobs said "Throw him in! We have to see what we've got!"

I said "You won't get to see anything, if you throw him out there against NFL teams, without an NFL O-line."

So they throw him out there without blockers, and he gets destroyed.

And now, without ever having seen him play on an NFL offense, the Crowd has stamped him as a flop and worthless.

I have been waiting for three years to see the man get a chance, and the masses, who were so excited about him, are done with him, before ever getting a peak.

UN





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LIEVABLE.

I would like the record to note that I was always against Croyle, and I have not turned against him in any way.

Most QBs have suffered a whole lot worse abuse than Croyle did during the 13 games he played for us. He was sacked 19 times in those 13 games (1.5/game). To put this in perspective, Tyler Thigpen played 15 games in the past two years and has been sacked 26 times (1.7/game). Damon Huard played in 26 games over the past three years and was sacked 61 times (2.4/game). And that's just the Chiefs QBs. Cassel has played in 16 games last season, and he was sacked 47 times (2.9/game). Rothlisberger won a Super Bowl with a line that gave up 46 sacks (2.9/game).

Brodie was not hit more than any other QB on this team or on most teams. Did/does our OL stink? Sure. But Brodie's a fragile player. I don't see any way for you to debate that fact.

And a QB that does everything right but can't stay healthy is as useless as one who does everything wrong.

Canada
04-13-2009, 12:30 PM
Everybody is too vulnerable to injury when they play QB with a Herm Edwards offense.

I'm not saying he is great, or even might be great. I have never seen him play with a decent O-line. So I can't judge.

Yet he still got outperformed by Thigpen. The opinion around here changed over the last three years!! ya think? The guy was no good. Make all the excuses you want. Thigpen managed to make some things happen, Croyle did not. But I am sure that is all because of a ton of different variables that you will prevent and then I will see some stats about their completion % and some O line stats. My opinion changed because after two years of watching Croyle I never even saw a glimmer of hope. I cheered for the guy because he was a Chief. I also cheer for Huard when he was in but I wanted to see Croyle and I wanted to see him succeed. Fact is he twice as bad as Huard or Thigpen with the same line in front of him. If you want to continue being a Croyle guy then go ahead but don't act like it is so

UN


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that no one but you has any faith in Croyle anymore. :bananen_smilies046:

Three7s
04-13-2009, 07:57 PM
Yet he still got outperformed by Thigpen. The opinion around here changed over the last three years!! ya think? The guy was no good. Make all the excuses you want. Thigpen managed to make some things happen, Croyle did not. But I am sure that is all because of a ton of different variables that you will prevent and then I will see some stats about their completion % and some O line stats. My opinion changed because after two years of watching Croyle I never even saw a glimmer of hope. I cheered for the guy because he was a Chief. I also cheer for Huard when he was in but I wanted to see Croyle and I wanted to see him succeed. Fact is he twice as bad as Huard or Thigpen with the same line in front of him. If you want to continue being a Croyle guy then go ahead but don't act like it is so

UN


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that no one but you has any faith in Croyle anymore. :bananen_smilies046:
It's pretty easy to get outperformed when injured. When Croyle did the majority of the QBing, he wasn't supposed to win the game, he was supposed to manage it. Our defense and "running game" was supposed to win it.

Do I agree with it? No, that's why Herm's gone. Would I like to see him get another chance? Not really, I think Cassel is better and he's probably even with Thigpen. Croyle just doesn't have the body to survive in the NFL.

chief addict
04-13-2009, 08:24 PM
If we're talking about playing behind a good o line I say Huard is better than Croyle.

kcallin
04-13-2009, 08:30 PM
IMO BC is done he had his chance and could do nothing with it. Tyler came in and alot of people were very excited about his play even though we were NOT WINNING, now what does that say about Croyle? I really like Thigpen he has great feet and will stand in the pocket, it should be a good challenge for MC and TT to try to beat out the other for the starting job.

kcallin
04-13-2009, 08:46 PM
I know thats what is most likely to happen but I am still pullin for Tyler.

AussieChiefsFan
04-14-2009, 01:29 AM
I know thats what is most likely to happen but I am still pullin for Tyler.
IMO Tyler Thigpen is a great QB and has the potential to became a famous one too. But unfortunately for him, I would rather see Matt Cassell for starter in the up-coming season. Sorry Tyler.

theaxeeffect4311
04-15-2009, 12:01 AM
Does that mean you have no faith in the judgement of Pioli by bringing Cassell to the team? I for one believe in what Pioli is doing and his judgement towards the QB situation is right on. Tyler Thigpen is a great back up, he has the ability to step in and move the ball but his ability to run the team as a starter IMO is nill as the record of the team reflects his ability to win. I know we can't blame it all on him as our Defense had a bit to do with it but the passes that were picked on Thiggy had alot to do with the losses we had that were inside of 5 points or less. If he could have turned those INT's into TDs we would have been much better than 2 - 14.

It's not wrong to question the judgment of Pioli. By all means, you should question every move he makes so you can completely understand it. The fact that Matt Cassel has not been signed long term means that Pioli is not all on board with Cassel. Just because he has a high cap number and used our second round pick for him does not mean that he is the man that Pioli wants. Who knows what Pioli is thinking. If it was me, I take this as a great opportunity to take a QB. Let's break down Cassel as if he was a rookie QB. First of all, he's got good QB size, weight, and speed. He moves around the pocket well and has decent pocket presence. He can make a lot of different throws even though he chooses not to throw the deep ball most of the time. He tends/prefers to make the short accurate throw and make the receiver gain more yards after the catch. He has played at NFL speed, so the transition period for him will not take as much time, just a matter of learning and implementing the playbook. That is just a few things about Matt Cassel and when you compare that to Matt Stafford, let's look at the benefits. It did not cost us our first round pick. The Chiefs have the flexibility to sign Matt Cassel after the season to a long-term contract instead of having to do one of those ridiculous rookie first round QB contracts. And Cassel has game experience, and while he did play for a great offense with the Patriots, it's a matter that he learned the timing and the speed of the game. He was the best QB available this off-season between FA and draft. So it was the best thing to do when the QB situation was not resolved. However, Cassel could turn out to be a bust, but the good thing is that he is not locked down with a huge salary, so we could cut him after the season is over if we choose to. To lose our second round and 14 million instead of a first round and a 30 million dollar contract, yeah, Pioli made the right decision. He's at least keeping the Chiefs' options open.

ThigpenFan
04-15-2009, 09:35 PM
with matt now in the line up at QB it's going to be one fight for starter thigpen proved himself last season croyle shows flashs here and there do you guys think that their will be a legit chance for croyle and thigpen to take the job or are they just going to hand the job to matt. I know they already said it's anyones job but I don't belive that. I personal think if croyle stays heathy he is are best bet.

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!! omg that is hilarious. EVERY game Broken Croyle has started he has been hurt. Yeah buddy, he is REAL good isn't he? Perfect Quarterback for a starter. Broken Croyle sucks and needs to bag groceries for a living.:lol: :lol: :lol:

pbatrucker
04-15-2009, 10:05 PM
idc what your o-line is it mostly never affects how you throw the ball and where....your cp should not be 76%i think thats what thiggy had...anyway getting sacked doesnt affect it.
:sign0153: I won't even comment on this one.:11:

Vandelay
04-15-2009, 10:21 PM
completion percentage is CP
Good to know.

Chief Tyler
04-15-2009, 10:49 PM
idc what your o-line is it mostly never affects how you throw the ball and where....your cp should not be 76%i think thats what thiggy had...anyway getting sacked doesnt affect it.

A good o-line takes pressure off of the quarterback. It lets him build confidence, analyze the play at hand, and make a make a good completion without having to worry as much about eating turf. A good o-line buys more time for a play to develop, allowing receivers to run their routes and find holes in the defense, and with time holes will appear (that was the problem with our defense last year, our secondary were made to look a lot worse than they were due to a terrible front 7). A good o-line allows for a good running game, providing balance to the offense, keeping the defense on their toes, thereby making the quaterbacks job easier.

An offensive line has just as much to do with a quarterback's completion percentage as the quarterback does, if it didn't, linemen wouldn't be top round draft prospects and Jay Cutler would be just another quarterback.

AussieChiefsFan
04-15-2009, 10:52 PM
A good o-line takes pressure off of the quarterback. It lets him build confidence, analyze the play at hand, and make a make a good completion without having to worry as much about eating turf. A good o-line buys more time for a play to develop, allowing receivers to run their routes and find holes in the defense, and with time holes will appear (that was the problem with our defense last year, our secondary were made to look a lot worse than they were due to a terrible front 7). A good o-line allows for a good running game, providing balance to the offense, keeping the defense on their toes, thereby making the quaterbacks job easier.

An offensive line has just as much to do with a quarterback's completion percentage as the quarterback does, if it didn't, linemen wouldn't be top round draft prospects and Jay Cutler would be just another quarterback.
I agree. A good O-line gives the QB evrything he needs to make a good play and since that we have a new QB that was just traded for and that has never played on the team that they have been traded to, it's good for them to be confident that the O-line can protect them.

Chief Tyler
04-15-2009, 10:58 PM
I agree. A good O-line gives the QB evrything he needs to make a good play and since that we have a new QB that was just traded for and that has never played on the team that they have been traded to, it's good for them to be confident that the O-line can protect them.

Yep, I don't know how far back you've looked into football, or into other teams, but if you expect a quarterback to be a savior without an O-Line you get Joey Harrington (Matt Stafford could end up the same way, he could be a good quarterback, maybe great depending on the team, I haven't followed the Lions much, but unless they improve their line, he's going to be a "bust," and in the NFL, especially as a QB, you typically only get one shot).

YZILLA
04-16-2009, 02:31 AM
how long has croyle been with the chiefs about 3 yrs we are giving up on him to soon once we establish a good o-line were he is not under pressure every play then croyle will shine. I know it's hard to believe but you'll see

Thigpen played under the same offense as Croyle and he made it through the season. and he ran the ball half of the time.

YZILLA
04-16-2009, 02:38 AM
Yeah, no offense but this is nuts. Croyle stinks. Cassel's our starter - he'll be signed long term sometime before the regular season. Thigpen is a gadget guy and decent backup. He'll be trade bait in 2010. Croyle will be cut preseason. And that's just the way it is.


Thigpen's stats were not too far off of Cassels last year if I remember . I hope we keep him around. I know that were are gonna play matt otherwise why spend the money to bring him here.

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2009/04/26.jpg

Tyler Thigpen | #4 | QB
Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) | Official Team Site (http://www.kcchiefs.com/)

Height: 6-1 Weight: 224 Age: 25
Born: 4/14/1984 Winnsboro , SC
College: Coastal Carolina
Experience: 3rd season
High School: Fairfield Central HS [Winnsboro, SC]

team rosters quick stats (2008)
Select a Team Arizona Cardinals Atlanta Falcons Baltimore Ravens Buffalo Bills Carolina Panthers Chicago Bears Cincinnati Bengals Cleveland Browns Dallas Cowboys Denver Broncos Detroit Lions Green Bay Packers Houston Texans Indianapolis Colts Jacksonville Jaguars Kansas City Chiefs Miami Dolphins Minnesota Vikings New England Patriots New Orleans Saints New York Giants New York Jets Oakland Raiders Philadelphia Eagles Pittsburgh Steelers San Diego Chargers San Francisco 49ers Seattle Seahawks St. Louis Rams Tampa Bay Buccaneers Tennessee Titans Washington Redskins
TDS 18
INT 12
YDS 2,608
RTG 76.0




http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2009/04/27.jpg

Matt Cassel | #7 | QB
Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) | Official Team Site (http://www.kcchiefs.com/)

Height: 6-4 Weight: 230 Age: 26
Born: 5/17/1982 Northridge , CA
College: USC
Experience: 5th season
High School: Chatsworth HS [CA]

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chief31
04-16-2009, 03:37 AM
The entire crowd? Excuse me. Did I not get the survey. Stop lumping all into your opinion.:11:


Croyle did have a NFL O-Line, sure it was not as good as we would like, but he had a line. This is the NFL, you have to be able to play, take a hit, some people can and do not get injured. Croyle has not yet.

I wasn't saying everyone, just the mob in general. I started with "most everyone" in an attempt to avoid anyone feeling like it was directed at them.

But, if that's your idea of an NFL O-line, then I wouldn't expect to see much offense in the future.

But it was more than just a horrible O-line. It was Herm Edwards' inability to even notice, until he was out of QBs. Even after a career of QB injuries in his offense.

It was having a horrible O-line and running an offense as if you still had Roaf and Shields out there, and expecting a young QB to be able to handle it ta-boot.


Well, I am one of those that wanted to see him play. I am also one of the few that stayed with him after the 2007 season, wanting to see him do well in the 2008 season.

After watching him in 2007 compete for a starting job, but unable to seal it and make it his own, there were lots of calls then to not start him. When Huard got injured, we put in Croyle, and it was his job from then on. There were a lot of injuries in 2007 because the line sucked so I stood by him, hoping to see him play better.

Last year, 2008, it was his job to lose. Well, injuries plagued him, he never finished a game he started. Sure he took some knocks. Huard took some knocks too, but he is old.

Thigpen came in behind the same line and took the same knocks that Croyle took and managed to play out the season.

Face it, QBs are going to get hit, even if they are not sacked, they still get hit. I wanted to see Croyle be the future, but you have to admit that he is pretty injury prone and that is always going to be a liability no matter what offensive line you put him behind.

You, as well as anyone, know that the entire offense was rearranged to help keep the QB from getting killed, because of how many QBs had been hurt here, including rent Green.

Thigpen had the decisive advatage of getting to play in the QB-friendly gimmick offense, instead of rying to play NFL QB without an NFL O-line.

If you accepted an injury in '07, then how do you have a problem with it in '08?

The line was no better.


I would like the record to note that I was always against Croyle, and I have not turned against him in any way.

Most QBs have suffered a whole lot worse abuse than Croyle did during the 13 games he played for us. He was sacked 19 times in those 13 games (1.5/game). To put this in perspective, Tyler Thigpen played 15 games in the past two years and has been sacked 26 times (1.7/game). Damon Huard played in 26 games over the past three years and was sacked 61 times (2.4/game). And that's just the Chiefs QBs. Cassel has played in 16 games last season, and he was sacked 47 times (2.9/game). Rothlisberger won a Super Bowl with a line that gave up 46 sacks (2.9/game).

Brodie was not hit more than any other QB on this team or on most teams. Did/does our OL stink? Sure. But Brodie's a fragile player. I don't see any way for you to debate that fact.

And a QB that does everything right but can't stay healthy is as useless as one who does everything wrong.

The O-line wasn't just bad. It was a Herm Edwards O-line.

Herm has always been a QB killer.

He killed QBs every single year of his career.

The only reason Thigpen survived is because the team was out of QBs, and went to an ultra QB-friendly offense.

Not sure why I am telling you this, as I have seen you point it out to others on several occaisions.


Yet he still got outperformed by Thigpen. The opinion around here changed over the last three years!! ya think? The guy was no good. Make all the excuses you want. Thigpen managed to make some things happen, Croyle did not. But I am sure that is all because of a ton of different variables that you will prevent and then I will see some stats about their completion % and some O line stats. My opinion changed because after two years of watching Croyle I never even saw a glimmer of hope. I cheered for the guy because he was a Chief. I also cheer for Huard when he was in but I wanted to see Croyle and I wanted to see him succeed. Fact is he twice as bad as Huard or Thigpen with the same line in front of him. If you want to continue being a Croyle guy then go ahead but don't act like it is so

UN


BELIEVE

ABLE

that no one but you has any faith in Croyle anymore. :bananen_smilies046:

I was never a Croyle guy. Nor do I have any faith in him now.

Just because you don't know how to interpret what I am saying doesn't mean that you need to make it up on your own.


Does that mean you have no faith in the judgement of Pioli by bringing Cassell to the team? I for one believe in what Pioli is doing and his judgement towards the QB situation is right on. Tyler Thigpen is a great back up, he has the ability to step in and move the ball but his ability to run the team as a starter IMO is nill as the record of the team reflects his ability to win. I know we can't blame it all on him as our Defense had a bit to do with it but the passes that were picked on Thiggy had alot to do with the losses we had that were inside of 5 points or less. If he could have turned those INT's into TDs we would have been much better than 2 - 14.

Rather or not one believes that Pioli is a good/great talent evaluator is nil.

Regardless of what either QB is getting paid, you should be looking to put the best player for the team on the field.

If, as most expect, Cassel is put in a position of "his job to lose", then you don't get a a fair sample from the two "competitors".

I think there should be a fair competition between the two. But I don't think there will be.

And that would be a bad idea. Though, even bad ideas work out sometimes.

But, let it be known, that I think Thigpen will wind-up being a poor QB in the long run.

Canada
04-16-2009, 09:57 AM
I know exactly how to interpret what you are saying.

You want to bring up the fact that some people wanted Croyle to succeed and now they don't. and that you were right all along!! Nice work.

prough91
04-16-2009, 01:55 PM
I'm a Thigpen fan. Thigpen did awesome with the line he had. He's inaccurate? Try throwing a football on a dead run like he had to. Cassell was sacked twice as much as Thigpen. Twice. Cassell had the same o-line as Brady did. Now, tell me the line was a year older. You going to say that NE's line all lost two or three steps in a year? That's feasible.

Canada
04-16-2009, 02:17 PM
I'm a Thigpen fan. Thigpen did awesome with the line he had. He's inaccurate? Try throwing a football on a dead run like he had to. Cassell was sacked twice as much as Thigpen. Twice. Cassell had the same o-line as Brady did. Now, tell me the line was a year older. You going to say that NE's line all lost two or three steps in a year? That's feasible.

I'm not sure who this is directed at.

chief31
04-16-2009, 02:19 PM
I know exactly how to interpret what you are saying.

You want to bring up the fact that some people wanted Croyle to succeed and now they don't. and that you were right all along!! Nice work.

I was never right about him, because I never ventured any guess. Except that he would get injured. But that was a no-brainer anyway.

But we are calling him washed-up just because he had the same problem as Chad Pennington. Hell, Chad Pennington didn't have a 16 game season until he got out from under Herm, and he's done it twice since.

Pennington had five years of that. Croyle is still salvagable, having only dealt with Herm for two years.

I'm not saying that we need to be starting him. Nor that he should get serious consideration to start.

Just find it amusing how people are so quick to discard him and call him names.

Three7s
04-16-2009, 02:36 PM
We could trade Croyle to the Broncos, then when he beats us, people will complain.

Canada
04-16-2009, 02:52 PM
We could trade Croyle to the Broncos, then when he beats us, people will complain.

People here? Complain? Come on now!! Nice to see you are giving us a chance against the donx though!!

tornadospotter
04-16-2009, 02:54 PM
We could trade Croyle to the Broncos, then when he beats us, people will complain.
I think that is a great idea!

jmlamerson
04-16-2009, 02:59 PM
The O-line wasn't just bad. It was a Herm Edwards O-line.

Herm has always been a QB killer.

He killed QBs every single year of his career.

The only reason Thigpen survived is because the team was out of QBs, and went to an ultra QB-friendly offense.

Not sure why I am telling you this, as I have seen you point it out to others on several occaisions.

True, and that ultra-friendly offense is what Thigpen alive. My only point is that most NFL QBs have taken more hits in a shorter time period than Croyle and they didn't break. Croyle was injured at Alabama, and he hasn't been able to stay healthy in the NFL. Not to mention that when he did play, I just wasn't impressed.

This isn't to say that Croyle couldn't have a Pennington-style renissance with a real OL and real HC, but I just don't see it.

I will gladly agree that Herm Edwards does have a knack for getting his QBs killed. God, he was a terrible coach. Even a pretty decent braintrust in Pioli/Haley will need a couple seasons to undo all the damage he did to his team.

chief31
04-16-2009, 08:44 PM
True, and that ultra-friendly offense is what Thigpen alive. My only point is that most NFL QBs have taken more hits in a shorter time period than Croyle and they didn't break. Croyle was injured at Alabama, and he hasn't been able to stay healthy in the NFL. Not to mention that when he did play, I just wasn't impressed.

This isn't to say that Croyle couldn't have a Pennington-style renissance with a real OL and real HC, but I just don't see it.

I will gladly agree that Herm Edwards does have a knack for getting his QBs killed. God, he was a terrible coach. Even a pretty decent braintrust in Pioli/Haley will need a couple seasons to undo all the damage he did to his team.

No doubt, there is a case to be made that Croyle is fragile. It's definitely a fair argument.

But Herms track record for injuring his own QBs is the other end of that argument.

Is there something to the way Herm "protects" his QBs? Is there something to the fact that Croyle had injuries before coming to The NFL?

Which is responsible for how Croyles career has gone so far?

I find it hard to label Croyle as injury-prone, or not, becasue of that Herm factor.

Just as I find it difficult to label him as a good QB, or not, due to the poor offense that he was put into.

If you already fealt like Croyle was a bad choice, or particularly injury-prone, then you will obviously have seen nothing to alter that opinion.

But I don't see playing QB for Herm Edwards as an opportunity to show that you are a good QB, nor that you are not injury-prone.

Thigpen lucked-out, because Herm had to allow Chan Gailey to design an offense to protect his last remaining QB.

And he did a great job, just without the same Herm factor.