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View Full Version : Grading the Chiefs Draft - Every Pick



jmlamerson
04-27-2009, 10:49 AM
These are my draft grades, pick by pick. Feel free to add your own.

1(3) Tyson Jackson - DE

Love this pick. We obviously couldn't find a GM dumb enough to trade up to #3, and we needed a big body on our DL. He's a big five-technique DE who can provide the run defense we badly need. He won't be a 10-sack guy, but he'll provide pressure on the QB and stout run defense.

Grade: A

2(2) Matt Cassel (QB) and Mike Vrabel (OLB)

We got our first young QBOTF in decades and a solid veteran OLB to be our field marshal for this pick. Perfect.

Grade: A+

3(3) Alex Magee - DE

Ty Warren to Tyson Jackson's Richard Seymour. Again a nice big 3-4 DE who can bring pressure and stop the run.

Our 3-4 DL should be Jackson/Dorsey/Magee. I think the Turk/Tank/Hali/Boone/Edwards era is pretty well done.

Our run defense can finally stop being ranked in the 30s every year.

Grade: A

4(2) Donald Washington (CB)

I hated this pick when we made it. I thought we should have gone OG or OT with this pick. I get the reasoning though. We're going to face a lot of spead offenses and we need a big fast CB who can guard the big WRs. It gives us the best young CB corps in the league, with Flowers starting and Carr in the slot. Still, we had much bigger needs.

Grade: C

5(3) Colin Brown (OT)

Everyon hates this pick but me. He isn't the fastest guy and he'll need help against speed rushers, but he'll be a mountain in the rush offense. An upgrade over McIntosh and Taylor for certain.

Grade: B-

6(2) Quinten Lawrence (WR)

Our new return man. He has great speed and shouldn't be called on to do a lot except return kicks and punts. He might be a good WR one day, but he lacks a lot in his route running now. We badly needed a KR/PR, and he was the best available.

Grade: B+

7(3) Javarris Williams (RB)

Again, I understand the pick. We'll need a RB with some size, and we can't trust any of our guys to stay healthy. Still, Williams is too slow to be an every down back, and a LB or OL would have made a whole lot more sense.

Grade: C+

7(28) Jake O'Connell (TE)

Another pick I understand without liking. Why trade into the 7th to get this guy? We need a legitimate pass catching TE, sure, but he isn't a blocker and he's too short to be a great red zone threat. I think this and our other TE signings does mean that our current staff has no trust in Cottam.

Grade: C-

7(47) Ryan Succop (K)

I'll wait until camp to see how he does. We could have picked a whole lot worse for Mr. Irrelevant.

Grade: Incomplete

All in all, we did as much in this draft as could be expected with the picks we had. Pioli/Haley dedicated this draft to (1) stopping the run; and (2) filling in some need spots at skill positions. Stopping the run is the big one, and the reason we reached for Jackson and Magee. Until we can stop the run, our team will never win more than 4 games.

I expect Jackson, Magee, Washington, and Brown to be starters for us in 2009. Lawrence will see work at KR/PR and on special teams, O'Connell will be given every opportunity to win the starting TE spot, and Williams will inevitably see some carries.

I wish we had paid more attention to OL and LB, but I understand that there's only so much that one team can do in one draft.

We're trying to rebuild this team into a contender without signig long term free agent contracts that will eat up our cap. We have upgraded this offseason at almost every position (except TE obviously). Things are a lot brighter than the naysayers believe.

Overall Grade: B

yashi
04-27-2009, 11:12 AM
I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with you on this one, overall. I don't see how we're supposed to run a 3-4 with the heaviest guy being 297 lbs, and that person being Glenn Dorsey who isn't a player that eats space or holds his own against double teams. That's really setting him up to be a huge bust, in my opinion.

For me, if our run defense is improved next year I personalyl believe it will be more of a combination of better coaching and experience in the linebacking corps with Thomas and Vrabel.

Ty Warren was the 13th overall draft pick, not a 3rd rounder. I don't think it's fair to compare Magee to him.

jmlamerson
04-27-2009, 11:24 AM
I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with you on this one, overall. I don't see how we're supposed to run a 3-4 with the heaviest guy being 297 lbs, and that person being Glenn Dorsey who isn't a player that eats space or holds his own against double teams. That's really setting him up to be a huge bust, in my opinion.

For me, if our run defense is improved next year I personalyl believe it will be more of a combination of better coaching and experience in the linebacking corps with Thomas and Vrabel.

Ty Warren was the 13th overall draft pick, not a 3rd rounder. I don't think it's fair to compare Magee to him.

Magee and Jackson are exactly the right size for 3-4 DEs. Maybe they'll put on five pounds or so, but our issue is now NT. Glenn Dorsey will be the big question mark of this year. I don't know whether he'll succeed or fail at NT. I wish him success.

Sure, our better LB corps and the fact that our DC isn't senile should improve our run defense. But getting big, high motor DEs is also a huge factor. We were going to be in the bottom-5 again without some real size in our DEs, no matter how good our LB corps was.

I was comparing Magee to Warren in terms of their role on the team, not their talent level.

I understand that people loved Curry, even if I didn't. But we could have the best LB and DB corps in the league, and we'd still be a 4-win team without size on the DL. I can't see the argument against our 1st and 3rd round picks.

Vanilla Garilla
04-27-2009, 11:24 AM
I agree with you on almost every front, good job!

Rep

pbatrucker
04-27-2009, 11:32 AM
As I stated in another trend, Haley stated in his Q&A this weekend that Dorsey would line up as a DE. Since we drafted 2 DE, they must not think too much of him.
Jackson I could understand, but was a reach at #3, but we needed someone to stop the run.

The rest of the draft :sign0153: . I saw players to fit our needs better. As McShay stated in his analysis" Pioli's first draft was uninspiring and disappointment for chiefs fans". I'm still being supportive and only time will tell, but I did take note that Belichek kept rolling along.
:bananen_smilies046:

yashi
04-27-2009, 11:34 AM
I understand that people loved Curry, even if I didn't. But we could have the best LB and DB corps in the league, and we'd still be a 4-win team without size on the DL. I can't see the argument against our 1st and 3rd round picks.

My argument is that a team with Aaron Curry playing linebacker and still having Magee with Dorsey as the other DE is a better than a team with no additions at LB, with Tyson Jackson, Magee, and Dorsey on the DL. How many good 3-4 teams are under 900 lbs on the defensive line?

The Magee pick makes sense to me, just not when our first pick was also a 3-4 DE. For me, good drafting doesn't involve putting your 1st round pick the previous year in a position to fail.

Sn@keIze
04-27-2009, 11:36 AM
My main thing is with this draft is:

Why did we prioritize a CB over a Tackle in the draft?

Other than that its nice to see that this was a Defensive oriented draft considering how horrid our D was, especially D-line.

Worst pass rush in NFL history, and he addressed that by our first two picks..

jmlamerson
04-27-2009, 11:59 AM
My argument is that a team with Aaron Curry playing linebacker and still having Magee with Dorsey as the other DE is a better than a team with no additions at LB, with Tyson Jackson, Magee, and Dorsey on the DL. How many good 3-4 teams are under 900 lbs on the defensive line?

The Magee pick makes sense to me, just not when our first pick was also a 3-4 DE. For me, good drafting doesn't involve putting your 1st round pick the previous year in a position to fail.

I know people like Dorsey and feel that we shouldn't waste the 5th pick of 2008. But he clearly doesn't fit our team's future plans. As we can't cut or trade him for a couple of years without massacring our cap, we're going to try to work him in as a rotational DE/DT and get something for our money. In a way I feel bad for Dorsey, as he was brought into be Warren Sapp and will instead be Jarvis Green, but its just the way it is.

Right now, Dallas's 3-4 DL is under 900. As is Pittsburgh's. Not much under, but neither is ours.

You are right, we need some more bulk at the NT position. But we've only had one draft. We had a team without much talent at the end of 2008 and we've improved it across the board. There's only so much you can do in one offseason.

And our LB situation isn't that bad. We have DJ/Williams/Thomas/Vrabel as our starters, with Beisel as a decent rotation ILB. Could it be better. Sure. Do I think our 2010 draft will be LB focused, especially as we won't be pick (please God) in the top-5? Sure.

But our high draft position and complete lack of DE size made the Jackson pick an easy call.

jmlamerson
04-27-2009, 12:00 PM
As I stated in another trend, Haley stated in his Q&A this weekend that Dorsey would line up as a DE. Since we drafted 2 DE, they must not think too much of him.
Jackson I could understand, but was a reach at #3, but we needed someone to stop the run.

The rest of the draft :sign0153: . I saw players to fit our needs better. As McShay stated in his analysis" Pioli's first draft was uninspiring and disappointment for chiefs fans". I'm still being supportive and only time will tell, but I did take note that Belichek kept rolling along.
:bananen_smilies046:

Hadn't heard that about Dorsey. Thanks.

McShay is a fool. His grades every year turn out to be wildly off.

pbatrucker
04-27-2009, 12:03 PM
:bananen_smilies046: Looking forward to next years draft. The Kansas City Chiefs select out of the university of Alabama, Cody a 365# monster NT.
:yahoo:

jmlamerson
04-27-2009, 12:07 PM
:bananen_smilies046: Looking forward to next years draft. The Kansas City Chiefs select out of the university of Alabama, Cody a 365# monster NT.
:yahoo:

That would be my wildly early guess too. I figure the Chiefs win 6-8 games next year, which would definitely put us in the running.

pbatrucker
04-27-2009, 12:23 PM
That would be my wildly early guess too. I figure the Chiefs win 6-8 games next year, which would definitely put us in the running.
There's a lot of time b4 the season begins and if we are going to be competive IMO these areas have to be addressed:
LB: With the ageof the LB's we picked up, we're going to have to have help here. Injuries will probally happen.

OL: Either current management are comfortable with the OL already in place or we still need two starters.

With TG gone we need a reciever to move the chains and be a viable reciever in the red zone.

Just my opion, but we could have done better in this draft.
:bananen_smilies046:

Chief Tyler
04-27-2009, 12:26 PM
That would be my wildly early guess too. I figure the Chiefs win 6-8 games next year, which would definitely put us in the running.

Depends if the Tank experiment works out, I hope we get a miracle and it does. If not, I could see us getting Sergio Kindle or a WR like Dez Bryant in the first.

It's way too early for speculation but I would want a NT first pick, Cody or the guy from Clemson would be nice, with a rush LB, ILB and G/RT with the 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Bike
04-27-2009, 01:16 PM
I was surprised we didn't get Duke Robinson.

fairladyZ
04-27-2009, 01:52 PM
i LOVE how LJ gets hurt one time on a BS freak horse caller and now he can't stay healthy and we can't rely on him. makes me LOL.

anyway.

From what i have read they are going to have dorsey put on some weight and rotate with tank at NT. I've read that and i've also read he will be at DE. So i don't know what to believe.

I'm going to hold my grade for this draft until the end of the season. I don't like alot of our picks. I'm with Yashi on i would rather have had curry and MaGee then Jackson and MaGee. Not to mention we signed what 3 more DE's in UDFA? I would rather have had the young superstar LB to mold into the staple of our defense for a decade. LIke Ravens did with Lewis. We could have had Curry and easily made the lines huge and space eaters without spending our #1 pick on it. Just my opinion.

pbatrucker
04-27-2009, 01:55 PM
Go to the chiefs web site. Haley's Q&A from the 26th, he states that Dorsey will play DE in the 3-4.
:11:

jmlamerson
04-27-2009, 01:58 PM
Depends if the Tank experiment works out, I hope we get a miracle and it does. If not, I could see us getting Sergio Kindle or a WR like Dez Bryant in the first.

It's way too early for speculation but I would want a NT first pick, Cody or the guy from Clemson would be nice, with a rush LB, ILB and G/RT with the 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Pioli doesn't draft 1st round WRs. For good reasons. By far, it's the positions with the most busts.

DT14PRIEST
04-27-2009, 05:43 PM
Not to mention we signed what 3 more DE's in UDFA? .

Most of the DE's we've signed so far have been tweener DE/OLB prospects

N TX Dave
04-27-2009, 08:32 PM
Most of the DE's we've signed so far have been tweener DE/OLB prospects

Isn't that what you guys have been saying is needed an OLB? Who is to say one or more of the DE that we have will not be turned into an OLB?

Bike
04-27-2009, 08:41 PM
Isn't that what you guys have been saying is needed an OLB? Who is to say one or more of the DE that we have will not be turned into an OLB?
Nobody.

hometeam
04-28-2009, 12:31 PM
Yes, dorsey wil be DE.

It will look like this -

Jackson - Tyler - Dorsey

I have a feeling will be alot of rotating on the D line as well, with jackson moving inside in 4 lineman situations~


I would still rather have curry and be

magee - tyler - dorsey :(:(:(

yashi
04-28-2009, 01:17 PM
Yes, dorsey wil be DE.

It will look like this -

Jackson - Tyler - Dorsey

I have a feeling will be alot of rotating on the D line as well, with jackson moving inside in 4 lineman situations~


I would still rather have curry and be

magee - tyler - dorsey :(:(:(

you and me both buddy... I guess we will live with having extra depth on the d-line.

The way I see it, it'll go something like this..

Most 1st and 2nd downs:
DE - Jackson/Magee
NT - Tyler
DE - Dorsey/Magee

3rd downs (not short yardage):
I wouldn't be surprised to see Jackson, Dorsey, and Magee lining up at different positions to show offenses different looks.

Short Yardage - I think we switch to a 4-3 look
DE - Jackson
DT - Dorsey
DT - Tank
DE - Magee

Now that's a beefy d-line that should stop the run. We might even use it a lot more against heavy running teams. That rotation isn't going to do anything against the pass though.

SDChief09
04-28-2009, 02:46 PM
Dont agree on the statement that the new regime has "no trust in cottam"

Daniel Graham, Ben Watson, were both on NE's roster, they like to stack blocking tight ends onto one pass catcher that is still not used as often as in some offenses...

Right now they have Cottam, so if they plan to keep 2 or 3 TE's, why not add another guy in there to compete, hes not there for cottams job, hes there as you mentioned, as a blocker.

jmlamerson
04-28-2009, 03:09 PM
Dont agree on the statement that the new regime has "no trust in cottam"

Daniel Graham, Ben Watson, were both on NE's roster, they like to stack blocking tight ends onto one pass catcher that is still not used as often as in some offenses...

Right now they have Cottam, so if they plan to keep 2 or 3 TE's, why not add another guy in there to compete, hes not there for cottams job, hes there as you mentioned, as a blocker.

Well, we signed a TE in FA and traded into the 7th round of the draft for a TE. While that doesn't mean we're going to cut Cottam or anything, I think it does at least mean that he isn't seen as a receiving threat, and that he might not be a long term fixture at the position. Or to put it another way, he probably isn't seen as TG's heir apparent by the current regime.

I mean, would it shock you at all if in 2009 Ryan were our blocking TE and O'Connell our receiving TE, with Cottam as a reserve/special teams player?

chiefnut
04-28-2009, 03:49 PM
Pick 1 grade C-
, picked him way to early, adds another good DE for a 3-4 but we still have no NT...the heart of the 3-4 while passing on Raji who is considered the best NT in the draft hands down.

pick 2 C+ Cassel a QB we probably did not need at this pick and an aging LB to add stability and experience to our defense. great pick up if Cassell becomes a franchise QB and Vrabel lasts and contributes this season. terrible pick if Cassel no better than Thigpen who played well enuf last season.

pick 3 B+ i like Magee, he'll make a good DE add depth , but again no NT or OL picked areas of greater need

pick 4 C+ Washington has great speed and athleticism BUT has made as many bonehead plays as great plays again was projected as a later pick. may develop as a great nickel back and special teamer.

pick 5 B+ great pick, a mountain to anchor the right side of the offensive line. will not be bull rushed and should open holes and running lanes. may need help on speed rushers but most are from the left.

pick 6 B needed explosiveness on special teams [returns], and a field stretcher in a 4 WR set.

pick 7 B+ Williams is a good addition to the RB stable...you can never have enuf good backs. L J is a head case but still pro bowl caliber, Charles is exciting but may not hold up thru an entire season then it goes way downhill from there.

pick 8 E-- no VISABLE redeeming qualities to add to this team and could have been signed as a FA and to trade up to get him yet????

pick 9 B+ definately worth a shot at the most accurate kicker in college before his injury. if he returns to form could be the steal of the draft if not, well he is Mr. Irrelevant

pbatrucker
04-28-2009, 05:03 PM
Someone is reading different scouting reports than I can find on Brown. The reports I have seen rate him between 20th and 52nd of the OT available. The kindest scouting report said he wasn't a good run blocker, but that could have been because of MU's blocking scheme. I hope you guys are correct, but I can't see him starting at RT.
:11:

chiefnut
04-28-2009, 05:12 PM
Someone is reading different scouting reports than I can find on Brown. The reports I have seen rate him between 20th and 52nd of the OT available. The kindest scouting report said he wasn't a good run blocker, but that could have been because of MU's blocking scheme. I hope you guys are correct, but I can't see him starting at RT.
:11:


i watched some highlight reels on him and he pushed DL's from the 5 into the endzone. he handled bull rushers well and opend holes on inside runners, but didn't get outside well or handle a blitzing LB off the corner.

NWA Chief
04-28-2009, 06:04 PM
I think the Jackson pick was a great pick. Ppl will want to see stats out of him but that will not be where he helps us the most. He takes up space for the LB's which improves the Dline greatly with him and Magee. We did not have any lineman that fit in our 3-4 system we are putting in. Yes we missed on a NT but either Raji or Jackson should've been the pick. If Curry would've been picked, he would not be as successful without a NT in front of him. I am not sure what to think of Brown because he was never talked about leading up to the draft. I would love to have seen OLB or T picked up but I think our OL is already better than it was last year. Maybe one of the undrafted OLB's, Hali or Demorrio Williams can man the OLB.

jason1981
04-30-2009, 03:29 AM
well i think our team will be more competative and we will be in more games.