2008 v. 2009

[jmlamerson]

For those of you not thinking that the Chiefs have improved by leaps and bounds, a quick review (obviously subject to change) of the differences between this year and last year:

Starting QB:
2008 - Thigpen/Huard/Croyle
2009 - Cassel

Some of you don't think that the 10-5 Cassel is a better QB than the 1-9 Thigpen. Be prepared to be proven wrong.

Edge: 2009

RBs:
2008 - LJ/Kolby/Charles/Savage
2009 - LJ/Kolby/Charles/Williams

Basically the same in personnel - RB is a surprising strength of the team. I think the big difference between 2008 and 2009 will be the level of LJJ effort.

Edge: Even

WRs:
2008 - Bowe/Bradley/Franklin/Webb
2009 - Bowe/Engram/Bradley/Copper

Bowe and Bradley are solid WRs, but having a sure handed Engram at 2WR makes this WR corps suddenly the 2nd best in the division.

Edge: 2009

TE:
2008 - Gonzalez/Cottam
2009 - Cottam/Ryan/O'Connell

Our most obvious drop off in talent. Tony G. will be very missed.

Edge: 2008

OL:
2008 - Albert/Waters/Niswanger/Jones/McIntosh
2009 - Albert/Waters/Goff/Niswanger/Brown

No question, the 2009 OL is better. I still think were a ways away from "good" though.

Edge: 2009

DL:
2008 - Boone/Dorsey/Tank/Hali
2009 - Dorsey/Tank/Jackson/Magee

Again, no question. The 2009 DL is vastly improved over the 208 version, especially against the run. Most of our sacks will come from our OLBs, as we're going to primarily be running a 3-4.

LB:
2008 - DJ/Pat Thomas/Williams/Donnie
2009 - DJ/Zach Thomas/Williams/Vrabel

Big edge to 2009. Vrabel and Zach Thomas are a bit past their primes. But they're immeidate upgrades over what we had. Not to mention that Beisel's a far better reserve than Boiman.

DBs:
2008 - Flowers/Carr/Leggett/Page/Pollard
2009 - Flowers/Carr/Leggett/Washington/Page/Pollard

Not much of a change. Washington will bring some height and speed to our CB corps, but he's too unproven and has to many questions to be considered a major upgrade.

I realy wish we could have found a way to upgrade Page at FS. He's a ballhawk, sure, but he isn't nearly tough enough to play FS in a 3-4.

Edge: Even

PR/KR:
2008 - Robinson/Charles
2009 - Lawrence

Lawrence is unproven, sure, but anything is better than another year of Robinson/Charles at PR/KR.

Edge: 2009

K/P:
2008 - Barth/Colquitt
2009 - Barth/Succop/Colquitt

Too early to tell. My gut says we use Succop on kickoffs at least, which should give us some improvement there.

Slight Edge: 2009

HC/OC/DC:
2008 - Herm/Gailey/Gunther
2009 - Haley/Gailey/Pendergast

By virture of having an IQ over 50 and not being senile, our 2009 HC and DC defeat our 2008 HC and DC.

Big Edge: 2009

So, except for TE, we're a better team, or at least no worse, pretty much across the board. We were an immensely untalented team in 2008 (I still have no idea how we won that Denver game), and Pioli's doing the best he can to find legitimate starters at most positions.

With this talent and coaching staff, we should be looking at 6-8 wins. Which is pretty good for a young team trying to rebuild.

[Bike]

Thanks for the post. I also think special teams will be vastly improved over last year. I see the biggest improvement to be overall team attitude under our new staff...

[yashi]

Good post. We should be much improved.

My biggest question that still remains is where the pass rush will come from. Vrabel is the closest thing we have to a 3-4 pass rusher, and he only had 4 sacks last season. Hopefully Hali can become a good 3rd down pass rusher as an OLB.

[Bike]

Good post. We should be much improved.

My biggest question that still remains is where the pass rush will come from. Vrabel is the closest thing we have to a 3-4 pass rusher, and he only had 4 sacks last season. Hopefully Hali can become a good 3rd down pass rusher as an OLB.
Its time for DJ to step up.

[jmlamerson]

Its time for DJ to step up.

Exactly. DJ and Vrabel should be our main sack guys. DJ has the speed and athleticism to be a Joey Porter-type. The questions is whether he'll be able to learn and execute the schemes.

[KottkeKU]

wed better hope we have improved this year. 31st defense last year, and 3 different starting qb's.....Tony G made our entire team last year...

theres only one way to go...up!
DL, OL, LB, TE and S are still some question marks though...

long way to go!

[Bike]

Exactly. DJ and Vrabel should be our main sack guys. DJ has the speed and athleticism to be a Joey Porter-type. The questions is whether he'll be able to learn and execute the schemes.
Yeah. And now that DJ will finally have a DL in front of him and the fact that we will incorperate a defensive scheme that suits the players we have on the field - I look for no less than 10 sacks out of him this year.

[Bike]

wed better hope we have improved this year. 31st defense last year, and 3 different starting qb's.....Tony G made our entire team last year...

theres only one way to go...up!
DL, OL, LB, TE and S are still some question marks though...

long way to go!
Yep. But at least we know we are finally on our way...
Thanks Herm for trashing our Chiefs.

[yashi]

DJ is going to break out in 2010, I have a strong feeling about it. He'll finally be able to move around with a DL that will tie up some OL. The Jackson pick benefits him more than any other player.

Maybe we'll finally get to see the 1st round talent that we were lucky to have fallen to us in 2005. He's always been good, but now he should be great.

[jmlamerson]

DJ is going to break out in 2010, I have a strong feeling about it. He'll finally be able to move around with a DL that will tie up some OL. The Jackson pick benefits him more than any other player.

Maybe we'll finally get to see the 1st round talent that we were lucky to have fallen to us in 2005. He's always been good, but now he should be great.

You mean 2009, right? Unless you are really optimistic about the Chiefs playoff chances.:D

[yashi]

You mean 2009, right? Unless you are really optimistic about the Chiefs playoff chances.:D
oops

I've been reading a lot about Madden 2010 and I keep forgetting it's always a year ahead.

[texaschief]

So, this is zero sum to you? Edwards, in YOUR mind, wouldn't have added ANY free agents or drafted ANY players whatsoever?

That's bull.

We know we would've had:

DL:
Hali, Dorsey, Tank, ?

LB:
DJ, ?, Curry

DB:
Flowers, Pollard, ?, Carr

OL:
Albert, Waters, Niswanger, ?, ?, Gonzalez

RB:
?, Charles, Smith, Savage

QB:
Thigpen, Croyle, ?

WR:
Bowe, Bradley, ?, ?


The way I see it, the Chiefs have signed 4 impact free agents. Of the 8 question marks that the Chiefs would've had in their starting rotation, at least 4 of those would've been filled by free agents. Then, we also wouldn't have had to replace so many players in the draft or reach so high to get the guys we wanted.

We'd be in a MUCH better position if we hadn't changed the overall direction of the team.

[Vanilla Garilla]

Excellent Post JMLamerson, great way to look at the vast improvement we already can see "on paper' over last year.

[yashi]

So, this is zero sum to you? Edwards, in YOUR mind, wouldn't have added ANY free agents or drafted ANY players whatsoever?

That's bull.

We know we would've had:

DL:
Hali, Dorsey, Tank, ?

LB:
DJ, ?, Curry

DB:
Flowers, Pollard, ?, Carr

OL:
Albert, Waters, Niswanger, ?, ?, Gonzalez

RB:
?, Charles, Smith, Savage

QB:
Thigpen, Croyle, ?

WR:
Bowe, Bradley, ?, ?


The way I see it, the Chiefs have signed 4 impact free agents. Of the 8 question marks that the Chiefs would've had in their starting rotation, at least 4 of those would've been filled by free agents. Then, we also wouldn't have had to replace so many players in the draft or reach so high to get the guys we wanted.

We'd be in a MUCH better position if we hadn't changed the overall direction of the team.

he's talking about 2008 v 2009 (title of the thread).

[Vanilla Garilla]

There is always so many negative Chiefs fans on here anymore. Lets see some optimism folks, we have a lot to look forward too. This draft was a good one, and this off season has been wonderful for us Chiefs.

[jmlamerson]

So, this is zero sum to you? Edwards, in YOUR mind, wouldn't have added ANY free agents or drafted ANY players whatsoever?

That's bull.

Herm would have done what he did the previous three years. He would have signed bad free agents and he would have drafted badly. We didn't have any in-their-prime Pro Bowlers to trade off, so he probably would had eight draft picks (one through six and two sevenths).


We know we would've had:

DL:
Hali, Dorsey, Tank, ?

LB:
DJ, ?, Curry

DB:
Flowers, Pollard, ?, Carr

OL:
Albert, Waters, Niswanger, ?, ?, Gonzalez

RB:
?, Charles, Smith, Savage

QB:
Thigpen, Croyle, ?

WR:
Bowe, Bradley, ?, ?

I agree. That would have been our base roster. Our terrible, terrible base roster that won two games in 2008. Except that Herm would have kept Franklin and Webb as our WRs.


The way I see it, the Chiefs have signed 4 impact free agents. Of the 8 question marks that the Chiefs would've had in their starting rotation, at least 4 of those would've been filled by free agents. Then, we also wouldn't have had to replace so many players in the draft or reach so high to get the guys we wanted.

The Chiefs have signed the following starters as FAs/trades under Pioli:

Cassel
Vrabel
Zach Thomas
Engram
Goff

We also signed numerous FAs to help with our special teams/depth, like Copper, Daniels, and Beisel. We drafted starters at LDE, RDE, RT, K, and KR/PR. We drafted depth at CB, RB, and TE.

Who, exactly, would Herm have signed? Isn't it a whole lot more likely that he would have kept with the "youth movement" and sought to fix those problems in the draft or hope that his existing players improve? And assuming our first pick was for Curry at MLB, would we really have found starters at DE, OLB, RG, RT, FS, and HB in the 2nd thorugh 7th rounds? How could anyone really still believe that we could plug low round picks into the lineup and let Herm coach them into starters?

And whole 'nother year of the Cover 2 defense would have been about as effective as it had been in 2008.

[jmlamerson]

he's talking about 2008 v 2009 (title of the thread).

Yeah, I really wasn't trying to turn this into a thread about whether Herm Edwards sucks, just that we've improved over 2008.

Except for a few pitiful people, everyone knows Herm Edwards sucked. No need to rehash it.

[partysan]

HC/OC/DC:
2008 - Herm/Gailey/Gunther
2009 - Haley/Gailey/Pendergast

By virture of having an IQ over 50 and not being senile, our 2009 HC and DC defeat our 2008 HC and DC.

Big Edge: 2009




Haha, great! :lol:

[jmlamerson]

Excellent Post JMLamerson, great way to look at the vast improvement we already can see "on paper' over last year.

Thanks!

[hcp04140]

Hoping Washington impresses early and often at training camp. Kiper said before that Donald has one of the best grades at the film review portion of the combine. Donald made a mistake in college, everyone makes mistakes. He has admitted to them and he has changed his way of life. I played high school football with Donald and remain a close friend to him, and has told me all the time he has his head on straight now. He can also fill in and play nickel back. I wasn't a chiefs fan before yesterday but you better believe they are now my favorite team in the NFL along with the Colts. Donald will open some eyes his rookie year. He was always under the radar, and didn't any of you see all the espn analysts saying if Donald would have stayed for his senior year he would have been a 1st rounder next year. GO CHIEFS!!!

[DT14PRIEST]

hopefully that secondary coach from New England we hired can polish that raw talent in Washington into something legit.

maybe in the mold of a rodney harrison or something close to it in a couple of years.

[pbatrucker]

jmlamerson, I'm not trying to trash you ole buddy, in fact I agree with most of what you're saying except. We have not drafted a starting RT. Brown is a project. All I remember is Chase Daniels run ning for his life. He is a project, hopefully he can remain on the practice squad.
:bananen_smilies046: :11:

[jmlamerson]

jmlamerson, I'm not trying to trash you ole buddy, in fact I agree with most of what you're saying except. We have not drafted a starting RT. Brown is a project. All I remember is Chase Daniels run ning for his life. He is a project, hopefully he can remain on the practice squad.
:bananen_smilies046: :11:

Fair enough. He wasn't on my radar pre-draft, and I didn't know much about him other than he's big and apparently a good run blocker.

What will it take for us to draft some real OL?!

[yashi]

jmlamerson, I'm not trying to trash you ole buddy, in fact I agree with most of what you're saying except. We have not drafted a starting RT. Brown is a project. All I remember is Chase Daniels run ning for his life. He is a project, hopefully he can remain on the practice squad.
:bananen_smilies046: :11:
yeah I don't remember that line being particularly good.. Daniel had to get rid of the ball quickly most of the time.

[Bike]

jmlamerson, I'm not trying to trash you ole buddy, in fact I agree with most of what you're saying except. We have not drafted a starting RT. Brown is a project. All I remember is Chase Daniels run ning for his life. He is a project, hopefully he can remain on the practice squad.
:bananen_smilies046: :11:
1st team all big 12 + 6'7" 335 + 5th round pick.
He'll be competing for a starting spot.

[pbatrucker]

1st team all big 12 + 6'7" 335 + 5th round pick.
He'll be competing for a starting spot.

:bananen_smilies046: He was the 30th rated OT in the draft, I don't believe he was invited to the combine. scouts inc. had no stats. He's a PROJECT. 6'7" and 335# mean nothing if he's a stationary object.

[Bike]

:bananen_smilies046: He was the 30th rated OT in the draft, I don't believe he was invited to the combine. scouts inc. had no stats. He's a PROJECT. 6'7" and 335# mean nothing if he's a stationary object.I'm saying he'll be starting next to Rudy on the right side of the line..

[texaschief]

You have your right to your opinion. I have the right to opine that you're deluded at best and massively ignorant at worst.

moderated post.

[Chiefster]

OK, this one has run it's course.

WHAT PART OF RESPECT DON'T SOME OF YOU UNDERSTAND!

Post your oppinions and disagreements respectfully or GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! I'm sick of baby sitting your butts!