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Guru
08-07-2007, 01:11 AM
Chiefs tackle McIntosh is injured in practice

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star


RIVER FALLS, Wis. | The Chiefs laid bare their offseason priority for improvement in free agency by signing left tackle Damion McIntosh only hours after the market opened.


They may now have to play without McIntosh for an extended period. He was taken from the field on a motorized cart at Monday’s afternoon practice because of what the Chiefs called a right knee sprain.


Further tests were scheduled to determine the extent of the injury, but the Chiefs feared the worst. Coach Herm Edwards was already busy determining replacements from a short list that includes veteran Kyle Turley and inexperienced Will Svitek.


“We’ll talk about what we’re going to do short-term and long-term,” said Edwards, who then tried to put the situation in a better light.


“Remember last year and what happened to us on opening day?” he said, referring to quarterback Trent Green’s concussion. “We found a way to keep playing.”
McIntosh, though, is one of the most indispensable of Chiefs. They never adequately covered the hole at left tackle last season after Willie Roaf’s abrupt retirement.


Turley began the season as the left tackle but was replaced by Jordan Black in the third game. Black finished the season there but the Chiefs were determined to find an upgrade.


They settled on McIntosh, a seven-year veteran with San Diego and Miami, and figured the problem was solved.


It was until Monday. Svitek replaced McIntosh at left tackle after his departure. Turley was busy filling in for right tackle Chris Terry, who has a minor shoulder injury and didn’t practice.


Turley was one of the league’s top tackles before back injuries forced him to miss two seasons. He returned to football last season with the Chiefs and started seven games, including five at right tackle.


Svitek, a sixth-round pick two years ago, has played tackle in only one NFL regular-season game.

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 01:15 AM
Man this sucks! Are we ever going to get that line straightened out?

Coach
08-07-2007, 01:22 AM
the phins have to be loving this after the Trent Green debacle.

DrunkHillbilly
08-07-2007, 01:25 AM
Man this sucks! Are we ever going to get that line straightened out?

Not with this guy. It's a loss but not a crucial one. There are 20 other guys out there that would do the same as him.

Guru
08-07-2007, 01:26 AM
Not with this guy. It's a loss but not a crucial one. There are 20 other guys out there that would do the same as him.

LT is a serious skill position. Players are not a dime a dozen here. This will put us back at Kyle Turley.

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 01:28 AM
LT is a serious skill position. Players are not a dime a dozen here. This will put us back at Kyle Turley.

Eggsactly!!!

DrunkHillbilly
08-07-2007, 01:31 AM
LT is a serious skill position. Players are not a dime a dozen here. This will put us back at Kyle Turley.

Your exactly right, it is a skill position. That is why there are only a few out there that are considered studs. The rest are in a bunch together. Kind of like the closer position in baseball.

Guru
08-07-2007, 01:36 AM
Your exactly right, it is a skill position. That is why there are only a few out there that are considered studs. The rest are in a bunch together. Kind of like the closer position in baseball.

Yeah, but we were spoiled with Willie Roaf. I don't want to return to average and below. Not that McIntiosh was great but much better than average.

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 01:39 AM
Yeah, but we were spoiled with Willie Roaf. I don't want to return to average and below. Not that McIntiosh was great but much better than average.

Yup; now our already suspect "O" line has only grown more suspect and looks as if it will be that way for quite some time.

DrunkHillbilly
08-07-2007, 01:40 AM
Yeah, but we were spoiled with Willie Roaf. I don't want to return to average and below. Not that McIntiosh was great but much better than average.

Avg at best. I suggest we all lower our standards a bit because we are not going to see another tackle like that here in a loooooong time!!!! IMO, once you get past those select few you may as well put the rest of the names in a hat and start pickin!

Guru
08-07-2007, 01:41 AM
Avg at best. I suggest we all lower our standards a bit because we are not going to see another tackle like that here in a loooooong time!!!! IMO, once you get past those select few you may as well put the rest of the names in a hat and start pickin!

Lets just hope somebody can do a decent job and give our QB time to throw.

DrunkHillbilly
08-07-2007, 01:43 AM
Lets just hope somebody can do a decent job and give our QB time to throw.

It is going to be a crucial job whoever gets it. Although, Damon did a decent job out of the pocket last season.

Guru
08-07-2007, 01:44 AM
It is going to be a crucial job whoever gets it. Although, Damon did a decent job out of the pocket last season.

Yeah, but he was just doing what he was told. Get rid of the ball quick. With that line, you had to. One of the reasons Trent never had a chance last year.

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 01:45 AM
I fear that whatever decisions the QB makes in the offensive backfield will be out of self preservation.

DrunkHillbilly
08-07-2007, 01:47 AM
I fear that whatever decisions the QB makes in the offensive backfield will be out of self preservation.

No doubt about this but it's just good to know he is able to move a little. Those statue's don't seem to do so well!!:lol:

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 01:49 AM
No doubt about this but it's just good to know he is able to move a little. Those statue's don't seem to do so well!!:lol:

Heh! Not at all.

chief31
08-07-2007, 03:17 AM
I would have put him near the average, for his position. What we have left, aside from the unknown quantity that is Kyle Turley, is well below average. Unless Turley can return to his pro-bowl form, this is a pretty big deal.

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 10:41 AM
I would have put him near the average, for his position. What we have left, aside from the unknown quantity that is Kyle Turley, is well below average. Unless Turley can return to his pro-bowl form, this is a pretty big deal.


Yup, it's huge. But, I've always said they'd be lucky to go 8-8 this year. I hope they prove me wrong.

wolfpack
08-07-2007, 10:57 AM
let Svitek try 90% of the snaps. lsts see what the kid has. i wasnt excepting much from our ofense anyways. they say brodie has a fast release,he better.

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 11:11 AM
let Svitek try 90% of the snaps. lsts see what the kid has. i wasnt excepting much from our ofense anyways. they say brodie has a fast release,he better.


True, but that does not necessarily = better.

DrunkHillbilly
08-07-2007, 03:40 PM
I would have put him near the average, for his position. What we have left, aside from the unknown quantity that is Kyle Turley, is well below average. Unless Turley can return to his pro-bowl form, this is a pretty big deal.

I bet they have a back up or someone on the practice squad that could do the same job as either of them. That's just how it is at that position. A few good ones, fifty avg. Hell, we could probably still pick someone up after the cuts are made.

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 04:21 PM
I bet they have a back up or someone on the practice squad that could do the same job as either of them. That's just how it is at that position. A few good ones, fifty avg. Hell, we could probably still pick someone up after the cuts are made.

May have to.

DrunkHillbilly
08-07-2007, 04:24 PM
This is what I am anticipating. We know Turnstile aint gonna cut it all year!

Chiefster
08-07-2007, 04:30 PM
This is what I am anticipating. We know Turnstile aint gonna cut it all year!

Even if he did we'd still need another back-up.

chief31
08-07-2007, 10:16 PM
I bet they have a back up or someone on the practice squad that could do the same job as either of them. That's just how it is at that position. A few good ones, fifty avg. Hell, we could probably still pick someone up after the cuts are made.

My opinion of the position is a whole lot different from yours. There is as much seperation between the levels of ability for offensive tackles as there is with just about any other position. From one player to the next, the ability to handle power rushers, speed ruhers and technique rusher and the ability to run block straight ahead, directionally, or to pull, there are alot of variations in what players are capable of doing, against what skill level at each of those aspects and their consistency. There is a whole lot more to blocking than most people recognize.

Chiefster
08-08-2007, 12:35 AM
My opinion of the position is a whole lot different from yours. There is as much seperation between the levels of ability for offensive tackles as there is with just about any other position. From one player to the next, the ability to handle power rushers, speed ruhers and technique rusher and the ability to run block straight ahead, directionally, or to pull, there are alot of variations in what players are capable of doing, against what skill level at each of those aspects and their consistency. There is a whole lot more to blocking than most people recognize.

Yup, not an easy task in fact the way the rules are set up really places the offensive lineman at a disadvantage which is why it is said that technically holding could be called on just about every single play in the NFL.

DrunkHillbilly
08-08-2007, 03:10 AM
My opinion of the position is a whole lot different from yours. There is as much seperation between the levels of ability for offensive tackles as there is with just about any other position. From one player to the next, the ability to handle power rushers, speed ruhers and technique rusher and the ability to run block straight ahead, directionally, or to pull, there are alot of variations in what players are capable of doing, against what skill level at each of those aspects and their consistency. There is a whole lot more to blocking than most people recognize.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one but there are a few left tackles that have HUGE contracts and a bunch that are paid relatively the same amount of money. Whether it's fair or not, in this game, with the exception of high pick rookie contracts, the way you are paid is a reflection of how teams perceive your playing ability. This is why only a few of them get big money.

chief31
08-08-2007, 04:56 AM
We will have to agree to disagree on this one but there are a few left tackles that have HUGE contracts and a bunch that are paid relatively the same amount of money. Whether it's fair or not, in this game, with the exception of high pick rookie contracts, the way you are paid is a reflection of how teams perceive your playing ability. This is why only a few of them get big money.

O.k......................................(Leonard Davis)....:lol:

DrunkHillbilly
08-08-2007, 01:06 PM
O.k......................................(Leonard Davis)....:lol:

What a fatass this guy is! He's a false start machine!!

chief31
08-09-2007, 02:58 AM
What a fatass this guy is! He's a false start machine!!
But he gets paid pretty good. Right?

DrunkHillbilly
08-09-2007, 03:21 AM
But he gets paid pretty good. Right?

Please don't tell me you think Davis is a good left tackle?????

He's a guard. Played guard all through college. Bidwill was too stupid to play him at his normal position. Said he wouldn't pay a guard that much money. Well, we see where that got him!!!! He will play guard for Dallas not left tackle!!!

chief31
08-09-2007, 06:20 AM
Please don't tell me you think Davis is a good left tackle?????

He's a guard. Played guard all through college. Bidwill was too stupid to play him at his normal position. Said he wouldn't pay a guard that much money. Well, we see where that got him!!!! He will play guard for Dallas not left tackle!!!

My opinion of Davis is irrelevant. You said that you base the talent of offensive tackles on how well they are paid. I submit Davis as evidence that pay has little to do with ability. That's all.:D

Chiefster
08-09-2007, 06:28 AM
My opinion of Davis is irrelevant. You said that you base the talent of offensive tackles on how well they are paid. I submit Davis as evidence that pay has little to do with ability. That's all.:D

....Ask Elvis Grbac, or rather ask anyone who ever saw him play.

DrunkHillbilly
08-09-2007, 02:42 PM
My opinion of Davis is irrelevant. You said that you base the talent of offensive tackles on how well they are paid. I submit Davis as evidence that pay has little to do with ability. That's all.:D

We were speaking of left tackles, not guardes. If the position is as important as you think it is, why are there only a few with high salaries?:D

OTR Chiefs fan
08-09-2007, 06:29 PM
Let's hope Svitek is up to the challenge. We don't need another re-enactment of the Jordan Black Expressway like we had last year!

Chiefster
08-09-2007, 10:47 PM
My opinion of Davis is irrelevant. You said that you base the talent of offensive tackles on how well they are paid. I submit Davis as evidence that pay has little to do with ability. That's all.:D


We were speaking of left tackles, not guardes. If the position is as important as you think it is, why are there only a few with high salaries?:D

Use of my :D smilie is prohibited without my expressed written consent.

DrunkHillbilly
08-09-2007, 10:49 PM
Use of my :D smilie is prohibited without my expressed written consent.

:D :D :D

Chiefster
08-10-2007, 12:57 AM
:D :D :D

That does it! :sign0079:

chief31
08-10-2007, 06:47 AM
We were speaking of left tackles, not guardes. If the position is as important as you think it is, why are there only a few with high salaries?:D
Count 'em up. Over the past decade, or so, the position has been gaining that kind of financial respect. Leonard Davis' pay would have been based on his play at left tackle, since that is where he played last season. (even tough the Cowboys have moved him to G.) If you look around the league at the average pay of starting left tackles, you'll see that they are playing one of the "higher-priced" positions in football. But I don't think that it is wise to assume that a players contract is equivalent to his abilities, nor performance.

Chiefster
08-10-2007, 02:57 PM
Count 'em up. Over the past decade, or so, the position has been gaining that kind of financial respect. Leonard Davis' pay would have been based on his play at left tackle, since that is where he played last season. (even tough the Cowboys have moved him to G.) If you look around the league at the average pay of starting left tackles, you'll see that they are playing one of the "higher-priced" positions in football. But I don't think that it is wise to assume that a players contract is equivalent to his abilities, nor performance.


Agreed; however, bonuses and incentives within a contract do reflect the expectation of said abilities, not necessarily base pay though. JMOH

Canada
08-10-2007, 04:27 PM
That does it! :sign0079:

Damn it!!! Now I will be alone at the AA meetings. :toast2:

DrunkHillbilly
08-10-2007, 04:31 PM
Count 'em up. Over the past decade, or so, the position has been gaining that kind of financial respect. Leonard Davis' pay would have been based on his play at left tackle, since that is where he played last season. (even tough the Cowboys have moved him to G.) If you look around the league at the average pay of starting left tackles, you'll see that they are playing one of the "higher-priced" positions in football. But I don't think that it is wise to assume that a players contract is equivalent to his abilities, nor performance.

Really? Then why doesn't everyone get paid the same?

chief31
08-10-2007, 04:36 PM
Really? Then why doesn't everyone get paid the same?

Come on.....

Is Leonard Davis a super stud, like his contract would suggest, or is he overpaid? Is Larry Johnson worth only 1.9 million? Alot of times, playes get paid more than what they are worth on the open market and sometimes a player gets paid less than what his market value should be. A players salary isn't always equivelent to his value on the field.

sling58
08-10-2007, 04:37 PM
Come on.....

Is Leonard Davis a super stud, like his contract would suggest, or is he overpaid? Is Larry Johnson worth only 1.9 million? Alot of times, playes get paid more than what they are worth on the open market and sometimes a player gets paid less than what his market value should be. A players salary isn't always equivelent to his value on the field.

Good point!

Chiefster
08-10-2007, 04:41 PM
Damn it!!! Now I will be alone at the AA meetings. :toast2:


Sorry Canada; had to be done! :D

It is a moral imperative!

DrunkHillbilly
08-10-2007, 06:30 PM
Come on.....

Is Leonard Davis a super stud, like his contract would suggest, or is he overpaid? Is Larry Johnson worth only 1.9 million? Alot of times, playes get paid more than what they are worth on the open market and sometimes a player gets paid less than what his market value should be. A players salary isn't always equivelent to his value on the field.

Leonard Davis was drafted to be a guard by Rod Graves the GM of the Cardinals. The Owner about 2 weeks before camp started, decided he didn't want to pay a guard that much money! That is why he moved to tackle. And yes, he will be a better than avg guard simply because of his size!

LJ was getting paid $1.9 mill. because he was an unproven rookie! He will be paid like a top player at his position by the Chiefs or someone else!

Yes, occasionally players are overpaid because of free agency and for maybe one or two years a player is underpaid but if he proves to be a stud at his position, he gets PAID!!!

You know that 90% of the time, a players salary, especially after it's been renegotiated or he has gone through free agency is based on his value on the field! To say other wise is just weird!

sling58
08-10-2007, 06:35 PM
Damn it!!! Now I will be alone at the AA meetings. :toast2:

No you won't I will be there! ha ha

Canada
08-10-2007, 06:35 PM
Leonard Davis was drafted to be a guard by Rod Graves the GM of the Cardinals. The Owner about 2 weeks before camp started, decided he didn't want to pay a guard that much money! That is why he moved to tackle. And yes, he will be a better than avg guard simply because of his size!

LJ was getting paid $1.9 mill. because he was an unproven rookie! He will be paid like a top player at his position by the Chiefs or someone else!

Yes, occasionally players are overpaid because of free agency and for maybe one or two years a player is underpaid but if he proves to be a stud at his position, he gets PAID!!!

You know that 90% of the time, a players salary, especially after it's been renegotiated or he has gone through free agency is based on his value on the field! To say other wise is just weird!

I think most contracts these days are based on what guys "did" on the field. They have a good year and then renegotiate their contract based on the previous years performance. I would like to see someone actually finish out their original contract before demanding more money for something that they have already been paid to do. If they aren't happy with their original contract then tough sh*t, fire your dumbass agent.

sling58
08-10-2007, 06:37 PM
I think most contracts these days are based on what guys "did" on the field. They have a good year and then renegotiate their contract based on the previous years performance. I would like to see someone actually finish out their original contract before demanding more money for something that they have already been paid to do. If they aren't happy with their original contract then tough sh*t, fire your dumbass agent.

Aristotle couldn't have said it better!

DrunkHillbilly
08-10-2007, 06:40 PM
I think most contracts these days are based on what guys "did" on the field. They have a good year and then renegotiate their contract based on the previous years performance. I would like to see someone actually finish out their original contract before demanding more money for something that they have already been paid to do. If they aren't happy with their original contract then tough sh*t, fire your dumbass agent.

I agree but my point is that players are paid based on how good they are. You can't see into the future so yes it is based on what they did in prior years.

Canada
08-10-2007, 06:43 PM
I agree but my point is that players are paid based on how good they are. You can't see into the future so yes it is based on what they did in prior years.

Yes, just not all the "years" in their contract.

Chiefster
08-10-2007, 06:44 PM
Ok so which point are you agreeing on sling58???

Chiefster
08-10-2007, 06:45 PM
Yes, just not all the "years" in their contract.

Agreed.

DrunkHillbilly
08-10-2007, 06:47 PM
Yes, just not all the "years" in their contract.

I to think they should have to play out the original contract. However, I also think the team must honor the original contract! A lot of times it's the team that wants to renegotiate things! Never and I mean never will a 6 year contract worth $50, $60, $70 mill. come to full term. That's why I think it is ridiculous that a lot of these hold outs are hung up on years of the contract.

sling58
08-10-2007, 06:52 PM
Ok so which point are you agreeing on sling58???

They are both good points. I see both sides of the story.

royalswin100games
08-10-2007, 07:07 PM
Leonard Davis is going to stink it up with the 'boys anyway. Romo will spend some time on his back this year.

As for our problem, we're going to have to deal with average play at left tackle unless Svitek surprises everyone, or hope Priest bounces off everyone like he used to, or hope LJ takes 20 mil instead of 28 mil. Carl doesn't look like he's going to budge. Our passing game will suffer dearly.

chief31
08-10-2007, 07:36 PM
Leonard Davis was drafted to be a guard by Rod Graves the GM of the Cardinals. The Owner about 2 weeks before camp started, decided he didn't want to pay a guard that much money! That is why he moved to tackle. And yes, he will be a better than avg guard simply because of his size!

LJ was getting paid $1.9 mill. because he was an unproven rookie! He will be paid like a top player at his position by the Chiefs or someone else!

Yes, occasionally players are overpaid because of free agency and for maybe one or two years a player is underpaid but if he proves to be a stud at his position, he gets PAID!!!

You know that 90% of the time, a players salary, especially after it's been renegotiated or he has gone through free agency is based on his value on the field! To say other wise is just weird!

Why you make such a big argument over nothing is beyond me. 90% is a very high estimate. Is Dwight Freeney the best defensive player ever? He is the highest paid, ever. And Nate Clements is the second highest. These aren't even the best current players at their positions. Not to mention the rookie contracts.

Anyway, I'm tired of having this conversation. The game is won in the trenches. And left tackle is quickly becoming one of the higher-paid positions in the NFL.

DrunkHillbilly
08-10-2007, 07:54 PM
Why you make such a big argument over nothing is beyond me. 90% is a very high estimate. Is Dwight Freeney the best defensive player ever? He is the highest paid, ever. And Nate Clements is the second highest. These aren't even the best current players at their positions. Not to mention the rookie contracts.

Anyway, I'm tired of having this conversation. The game is won in the trenches. And left tackle is quickly becoming one of the higher-paid positions in the NFL.

Your right, Dwight Freeney and Nate Clements are TERRIBLE!!!:drunkhb: And nobody said anything about defensive players in general. We started out talking about left takles!

Sucks when more than one person sees it differently than you huh? And how am I arguing any more than you? Disagreeing and having different opinions is allowed!!!:toast2:

AkChief49
08-10-2007, 09:31 PM
can we clone Will and Wille? if only.....

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 02:45 AM
They are both good points. I see both sides of the story.


Ahhh; gotcha. Well, I say: "Less filling..." :D

sling58
08-11-2007, 08:12 AM
Ahhh; gotcha. Well, I say: "Less filling..." :D

GREAT TASTE!!!

chief31
08-11-2007, 08:51 AM
Is Dwight Freeney the best defensive player ever? He is the highest paid, ever. And Nate Clements is the second highest.


Your right, Dwight Freeney and Nate Clements are TERRIBLE!!!

Obviously, you didn't get it. Try reading my quote again. The idea that they aren't the all-time best players at there positions definitely suggests that they are aweful.:joker:

Here, I'll just keep repeating it until you read it....

Left tackles are amongst the highest paid positions in the NFL.

Since salary seems to be the only guage that you have for player evaluation.(Until you step up on your "Larry Johnson is God" soapbox.)

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 12:46 PM
Obviously, you didn't get it. Try reading my quote again. The idea that they aren't the all-time best players at there positions definitely suggests that they are aweful.:joker:

Here, I'll just keep repeating it until you read it....

Left tackles are amongst the highest paid positions in the NFL.

Since salary seems to be the only guage that you have for player evaluation.(Until you step up on your "Larry Johnson is God" soapbox.)

Reading is fundamental. :D

DrunkHillbilly
08-11-2007, 02:28 PM
Obviously, you didn't get it. Try reading my quote again. The idea that they aren't the all-time best players at there positions definitely suggests that they are aweful.:joker:

Here, I'll just keep repeating it until you read it....

Left tackles are amongst the highest paid positions in the NFL.

Since salary seems to be the only guage that you have for player evaluation.(Until you step up on your "Larry Johnson is God" soapbox.)

So with all of your infinite knowledge of the NFL and talent evaluating skills, I guess your telling me talent has nothing to do with how players are paid huh? That my friend is absurd!!

I never said anything about that position not BECOMING a high paid position, I said there are only a FEW players that (are): definition: present second singular or present plural of.) earning TOP MONEY at the position and the rest are lumped together! Look it up!!! It's like that at most positions!!

With the exception of a few overpaid players due to free agency, what is your highly sought after explanation of why top players at their respective position are paid more than the rest at the same position? Uh TALENT??

Hooked on Phonics IS available online! I may be willing to help cover some of the cost if you will promise to utilize it for what it is meant for! Also, I am sorry for liking our #1 running back and feeling he deserves to be paid more than the $11 million that is the Chiefs latest offer. So continue to HATE on the guy and when your beloved back ups carry us all the way to the cellar either this year or in years to come, I will be there to say " it's ok, nobody would have known)! Cheers!!:bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies046:

sling58
08-11-2007, 02:49 PM
I love the passion that this forum brings! SO many differnet opinions coming out! This is like we are at Cheers and everyone is getting their two cents in. I love it, "Sam, give me a beer!" "I love it, I love it, I love it!"-Roscoe P. Clotrane

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 03:11 PM
I love the passion that this forum brings! SO many differnet opinions coming out! This is like we are at Cheers and everyone is getting their two cents in. I love it, "Sam, give me a beer!" "I love it, I love it, I love it!"-Roscoe P. Clotrane


:lol::lol:

I, too, love this thread! :bananen_smilies046:

sling58
08-11-2007, 03:24 PM
:lol::lol:

I, too, love this thread! :bananen_smilies046:

It's like beer and Pizza! Everyone loves it!

:character00109:

chief31
08-11-2007, 03:52 PM
So with all of your infinite knowledge of the NFL and talent evaluating skills, I guess your telling me talent has nothing to do with how players are paid huh? That my friend is absurd!!

I never said anything about that position not BECOMING a high paid position, I said there are only a FEW players that (are): definition: present second singular or present plural of.) earning TOP MONEY at the position and the rest are lumped together! Look it up!!! It's like that at most positions!!

With the exception of a few overpaid players due to free agency, what is your highly sought after explanation of why top players at their respective position are paid more than the rest at the same position? Uh TALENT??

Hooked on Phonics IS available online! I may be willing to help cover some of the cost if you will promise to utilize it for what it is meant for! Also, I am sorry for liking our #1 running back and feeling he deserves to be paid more than the $11 million that is the Chiefs latest offer. So continue to HATE on the guy and when your beloved back ups carry us all the way to the cellar either this year or in years to come, I will be there to say " it's ok, nobody would have known)! Cheers!!:bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies046:

A) Gotta love it when people shove ignorant words into my mouth, then call me stupid for them saying it.

B)The fact that many players are over/under paid means that if you put a list of player salaries, side by side, with a list of the best players, the two would have some similarities and quite a few major differences. On the norm, a top player at his positon will only be the highest paid player at that position if he just inked a new deal. If Orlando pace signed an extension tommorow, then he would be the highest paid OT in the business. I don't know his contract status, but I know the he isn't the highest paid, while many believe that he is the most talented. Judging a players worth by his contract gives a very cloudy perspective.

C) You can have the little "witty" insults. I don't particularly need them.

D) Larry Johnson is nothing special to me. There have been plenty of guys who have come and gone in this league, who run just as hard as Larry who never lived up to their potential because they didn't have strong offensive lines to lead the way. No runningback does anything without an O-line. (Except Barry)

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 03:57 PM
A) Gotta love it when people shove ignorant words into my mouth, then call me stupid for them saying it.

B)The fact that many players are over/under paid means that if you put a list of player salaries, side by side, with a list of the best players, the two would have some similarities and quite a few major differences. On the norm, a top player at his positon will only be the highest paid player at that position if he just inked a new deal. If Orlando pace signed an extension tommorow, then he would be the highest paid OT in the business. I don't know his contract status, but I know the he isn't the highest paid, while many believe that he is the most talented. Judging a players worth by his contract gives a very cloudy perspective.

C) You can have the little "witty" insults. I don't particularly need them.

D) Larry Johnson is nothing special to me. There have been plenty of guys who have come and gone in this league, who run just as hard as Larry who never lived up to their potential because they didn't have strong offensive lines to lead the way. No runningback does anything without an O-line. (Except Barry)

Agreed! It all starts up front.

sling58
08-11-2007, 04:08 PM
Agreed! It all starts up front.

Unless your Jim Brown and just run over people! But true it starts at O-line!

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 04:10 PM
Unless your Jim Brown and just run over people! But true it starts at O-line!

...Or Christian Okoye.

sling58
08-11-2007, 04:14 PM
...Or Christian Okoye.

You coulda put Christian out there alone and he still would have gotten yards.

chief31
08-11-2007, 04:15 PM
You coulda put Christian out there alone and he still would have gotten yards.
Unh-hunh, negative yards. Lol.

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 04:28 PM
The Nightmare was a tank; but still needed an offensive line.

chief31
08-11-2007, 04:29 PM
The Nightmare was a tank; but still needed an offensive line.

And he had a pretty decent bunch to run behind.

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 04:32 PM
And he had a pretty decent bunch to run behind.

Slackers they weren't.

sling58
08-11-2007, 04:42 PM
Unh-hunh, negative yards. Lol.

You have to admit Okoye was a bruiser!!

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 04:45 PM
You have to admit Okoye was a bruiser!!


By the fourth quarter defenders no longer wanted to tackle him and started arguing over who's turn it was. :lol:

sling58
08-11-2007, 04:47 PM
Not Me! Not Me!

Chiefster
08-11-2007, 04:56 PM
Not Me! Not Me!

Heh! :lol:

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 06:14 AM
A) Gotta love it when people shove ignorant words into my mouth, then call me stupid for them saying it.

B)The fact that many players are over/under paid means that if you put a list of player salaries, side by side, with a list of the best players, the two would have some similarities and quite a few major differences. On the norm, a top player at his positon will only be the highest paid player at that position if he just inked a new deal. If Orlando pace signed an extension tommorow, then he would be the highest paid OT in the business. I don't know his contract status, but I know the he isn't the highest paid, while many believe that he is the most talented. Judging a players worth by his contract gives a very cloudy perspective.

C) You can have the little "witty" insults. I don't particularly need them.

D) Larry Johnson is nothing special to me. There have been plenty of guys who have come and gone in this league, who run just as hard as Larry who never lived up to their potential because they didn't have strong offensive lines to lead the way. No runningback does anything without an O-line. (Except Barry)

I can't believe we are having a discusion about how players aren't paid based on how good they are!

Name the top 5 paid left tackles. And then name the 30 that are paid about the same! Then tell me out of those 30 , who should be lumped in with the top 5.

chief31
08-12-2007, 11:23 AM
I can't believe we are having a discusion about how players aren't paid based on how good they are!

Name the top 5 paid left tackles. And then name the 30 that are paid about the same! Then tell me out of those 30 , who should be lumped in with the top 5.

No. You can start watching football. I'm not going to help right now. Just try watching O-line play, instead of just "skill position" play. If you have Tivo, or some other recording device, then use the rewind/slo-mo/pause options. Becuese the cameramen won't focus on O-line play.

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 03:23 PM
No. You can start watching football. I'm not going to help right now. Just try watching O-line play, instead of just "skill position" play. If you have Tivo, or some other recording device, then use the rewind/slo-mo/pause options. Becuese the cameramen won't focus on O-line play.

Not saying the O line isn't an integral part of the team brother because it is. Just trying to understand your line of thinking when it comes to how players are paid. No hard feelings!:D

chief31
08-12-2007, 03:31 PM
Not saying the O line isn't an integral part of the team brother because it is. Just trying to understand your line of thinking when it comes to how players are paid. No hard feelings!:D

Well, while it is common sense to assume that teams pay players BASED ON what they THINK a player is capable of, over/underestimations occur and averages go up. Each year, some mediocre talent gets a huge contract, to where he is paid as one of the top-five, or so, players at his position. Everybody knows that player contracts are based on percieved ability, but it is the perception, that throws the salary/talent balance off. That and bidding on free agents, based on positional need.

The fact is that players don't get accurately paid for their actual value. Therefore, I don't think that pointing to how offensive tackles are paid, says much about each individuals talents.

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 05:13 PM
Well, while it is common sense to assume that teams pay players BASED ON what they THINK a player is capable of, over/underestimations occur and averages go up. Each year, some mediocre talent gets a huge contract, to where he is paid as one of the top-five, or so, players at his position. Everybody knows that player contracts are based on percieved ability, but it is the perception, that throws the salary/talent balance off. That and bidding on free agents, based on positional need.

The fact is that players don't get accurately paid for their actual value. Therefore, I don't think that pointing to how offensive tackles are paid, says much about each individuals talents.

You still haven't given me your reasoning behind why it is that there are a few that are paid a ton and the rest are paid basically the same.

We have already established that free agency plays a roll sometimes due to needs of a team therefore sometimes teams have to overpay.

As far as mediocre players getting overpaid goes, obviously we are on this site and not on the sidelines for a reason! That's what those guys making those decisions do for a living. While it is human nature for us to sit here and talk about what we think we know, these guys actually know what they are doing so for them to make those decisions and pay these guys the money they are, they must know a little more than your or I. They also pay these players sometimes based on other teams. If a bidding war starts, that also leads to overpaying which would indicate that someone thinks that "mediocre" player is better than mediocre.

Chiefster
08-12-2007, 05:40 PM
I think an agreement to disagree may well be in order here. :D

chief31
08-12-2007, 09:53 PM
You still haven't given me your reasoning behind why it is that there are a few that are paid a ton and the rest are paid basically the same.

We have already established that free agency plays a roll sometimes due to needs of a team therefore sometimes teams have to overpay.

As far as mediocre players getting overpaid goes, obviously we are on this site and not on the sidelines for a reason! That's what those guys making those decisions do for a living. While it is human nature for us to sit here and talk about what we think we know, these guys actually know what they are doing so for them to make those decisions and pay these guys the money they are, they must know a little more than your or I. They also pay these players sometimes based on other teams. If a bidding war starts, that also leads to overpaying which would indicate that someone thinks that "mediocre" player is better than mediocre.


That simply isn't correct. With thirty-two teams, that leaves thirty-two left tackles. Just like any position, there are those who have had recent contracts, those would be your highest paid, then there are the slightly more recent than most, then you have guys who are nearing the end of their contracts and finally, you have surprising young guys, like Marcus Mcniel. Oh, and the rookies and second year starters. You are speculating about the pay for that position. Maybe you are including bench players, or right tackles, because that would be where you find that lump of players who may earn about the same.

And, just for the record, alot of people in the NFL aren't very good at their job. Just like any other job, player evaluation is something that some people do better than others. In the NFL, you have some who do a great job, some who do O.K., some who barely get by and then you have those who suck ***. Just like anything else. And yes, I believe that I could be a much better evaluator of O-line talent, than many who get paid to do so. :yahoo:

Chiefster
08-12-2007, 09:59 PM
Heh! Chief31 is da man! :p

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 10:01 PM
That simply isn't correct. With thirty-two teams, that leaves thirty-two left tackles. Just like any position, there are those who have had recent contracts, those would be your highest paid, then there are the slightly more recent than most, then you have guys who are nearing the end of their contracts and finally, you have surprising young guys, like Marcus Mcniel. Oh, and the rookies and second year starters. You are speculating about the pay for that position. Maybe you are including bench players, or right tackles, because that would be where you find that lump of players who may earn about the same.

And, just for the record, alot of people in the NFL aren't very good at their job. Just like any other job, player evaluation is something that some people do better than others. In the NFL, you have some who do a great job, some who do O.K., some who barely get by and then you have those who suck ***. Just like anything else. And yes, I believe that I could be a much better evaluator of O-line talent, than many who get paid to do so. :yahoo:

Most arm chair QB's think they can but are sadly mistaken!! Maybe you should try and get a job in the NFL! :sign0153: :funnypost:

chief31
08-12-2007, 10:04 PM
Most arm chair QB's think they can but are sadly mistaken!! Maybe you should try and get a job in the NFL! :sign0153: :funnypost:
Unfotunately, most of those jobs are reserved for brother-in-laws of head coaches and GMs.

Chiefster
08-12-2007, 10:05 PM
Unfotunately, most of those jobs are reserved for brother-in-laws of head coaches and GMs.

:lol::lol:

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 10:07 PM
Unfotunately, most of those jobs are reserved for brother-in-laws of head coaches and GMs.

Hell, if your as good as you think you are, someone out there would give you a job!:sign0098:

chief31
08-12-2007, 10:08 PM
Hell, if your as good as you think you are, someone out there would give you a job!:sign0098:
When I marry their sister.

Chiefster
08-12-2007, 10:08 PM
Hell, if your as good as you think you are, someone out there would give you a job!:sign0098:

But would he get paid what he's worth??? :D

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 10:09 PM
When I marry their sister.

Always an excuse!

Canada
08-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Just throwin this out there, but do you think the guys who do it now are the best in the world?? Who knows who might be better??

chief31
08-12-2007, 10:13 PM
Just throwin this out there, but do you think the guys who do it now are the best in the world?? Who knows who might be better??

Some of them know what they are doing and some of them just know the right people. Still others know recievers, or quarterbacks, and get offered an O-line scout job, because they "know offense". :beer:

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Just throwin this out there, but do you think the guys who do it now are the best in the world?? Who knows who might be better??

I don't know. Do you think the athletes are the best in the world or is there some guy in Europe that works in a factory that could be the best QB ever? I get your point but you could ask that question about any job. The point is these are the guys getting paid millions so they must know a little about the game!

Canada
08-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Some of them know what they are doing and some of them just know the right people. Still others know recievers, or quarterbacks, and get offered an O-line scout job, because they "know offense". :beer:

I'll tell ya this, when i take CP's job you are hired!! :bananen_smilies046:

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 10:17 PM
I'll tell ya this, when i take CP's job you are hired!! :bananen_smilies046:

Damn, I thought we were in bad shape now!!!!!:lol:

Canada
08-12-2007, 10:25 PM
Damn, I thought we were in bad shape now!!!!!:lol:

Comments like that will make me rethink your position with the organization. Although a good drinkin buddy is hard to replace!! :bananen_smilies046:

chief31
08-12-2007, 10:26 PM
I'll tell ya this, when i take CP's job you are hired!! :bananen_smilies046:
I've always thought the team neede a Canadian GM...

Canada
08-12-2007, 10:28 PM
I would run the team with all the decisions coming from this site!!!

Chiefster
08-12-2007, 10:28 PM
Some of them know what they are doing and some of them just know the right people. Still others know recievers, or quarterbacks, and get offered an O-line scout job, because they "know offense". :beer:

Ain't what ya know but who.

DrunkHillbilly
08-12-2007, 10:59 PM
Comments like that will make me rethink your position with the organization. Although a good drinkin buddy is hard to replace!! :bananen_smilies046:

:toast2: :drunkhb: Boy aint that the truth!!

sling58
08-13-2007, 08:03 AM
I'll tell ya this, when i take CP's job you are hired!! :bananen_smilies046:

Can I be in charge of the beer stands Canada?

Canada
08-13-2007, 10:57 AM
Can I be in charge of the beer stands Canada?

As long as you make sure that I always have a full one!! :toast2:

sling58
08-13-2007, 11:02 AM
As long as you make sure that I always have a full one!! :toast2:

That's a given. I would set up a tap just for you!

Canada
08-13-2007, 11:18 AM
Sweet...You're hired.

sling58
08-13-2007, 11:49 AM
Sweet...You're hired.

Man you are the greated GM ever!! I need atleast $1.5 mil Arrowcash per year with $14 mil Arrowcash guaranteed signing bonuse and incentives for extra beer sales. Is that cool?

Canada
08-13-2007, 12:10 PM
Man you are the greated GM ever!! I need atleast $1.5 mil Arrowcash per year with $14 mil Arrowcash guaranteed signing bonuse and incentives for extra beer sales. Is that cool?

Meh...it's not my money!! The extra beer sales will be easy though...if I am there so are my drinkin buddies!! :bananen_smilies046:

sling58
08-13-2007, 01:07 PM
Meh...it's not my money!! The extra beer sales will be easy though...if I am there so are my drinkin buddies!! :bananen_smilies046:
Cool then you got an employee. I hope that you don't mind me doing quality checks on the product though. Got to make sure it tastes good for the customers.

Canada
08-13-2007, 01:56 PM
Just don't forget that I will be checking on you quality checks, but just cause I really like beer!!

Chiefster
08-14-2007, 02:33 AM
Just don't forget that I will be checking on you quality checks, but just cause I really like beer!!


So, let me get this straight: you'll be chacking the quality of checks? :p

Canada
08-14-2007, 02:34 AM
So, let me get this straight: you'll be chacking the quality of checks? :p

Eggsactly!! :toast2:

Chiefster
08-14-2007, 02:36 AM
Eggsactly!! :toast2:


:lol: :lol: