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View Full Version : ESPN Ranks Top AFC West DB's; 3 Chiefs in top 12



Big Daddy Tek
06-20-2009, 04:54 AM
Ranking the defensive backs in the AFC West (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-2362/Ranking-the-defensive-backs-in-the-AFC-West.html) http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/09/8.jpg (http://myespn.go.com/profile/violation?ou=afcwestadmin&at=7&vid=1245297625835)
June 19, 2009 11:00 AM

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson
Our periodic AFC West position rankings continue with the best defensive backs in the AFC West, in my opinion:

1. Nnamdi Asomugha (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4489), Oakland: Nnamdi has become, I believe, the best cornerback in the NFL. He is the definition of a shut-down cornerback.

2. Champ Bailey (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=1758), Denver: Bailey is going to turn 31 Monday, and he is coming off an injury-filled season. Still, he is brilliant. This is a first-ballot Hall of Famer who is still a top player.

3. Quentin Jammer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3533), San Diego: There is a pretty big drop off from No. 2 to No. 3, but Jammer is a good player. He had a nice season in 2008.

4. Antonio Cromartie (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9605), San Diego: Cromartie probably won't be No. 4 on this list next year. He'll either bounce back from a poor 2008 or he'll continue to slip. Yet, the team thinks he will improve because he played with a hip injury nearly all of last season.

5. Brian Dawkins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=978), Denver: Dawkins may be much lower on this list next year if his play drops at the age of 35. But he still brings plenty of panache to Denver.

6. Eric Weddle (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10481), San Diego: Weddle is a fine player, who made a ton of tackles for the Chargers last season. Expect continued improvement.

7. Antoine Cason (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11261), San Diego: If Cromartie slips, Cason can take his job. The sky is the limit for this second-year player.

8. Jarrad Page (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9814), Kansas City: Page is a solid safety, who has play-making ability.

9. Brandon Flowers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11269), Kansas City: Flowers made nice strides as a rookie last season. He has a chance to be a fine player.

10. Andre Goodman, Denver: Denver signed Goodman as a free agent this offseason. He is a solid pro.

11. Chris Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4703), Oakland: Johnson took over for the cut DeAngelo Hall (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5533) in the middle of the season and was much better than the high-priced Hall.

12. Brandon Carr (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11363), Kansas City: Like Flowers, Carr looked promising as a rookie cornerback last season. He has nice potential.



____________________

Wow. Surprised Pollard is not on here and even more surprised that Page is ranked higher than Flowers and Carr. Watch out for Leggett... See Ya!!

yashi
06-20-2009, 09:50 AM
jlamerson is going to like this.

Chiefster
06-20-2009, 10:06 AM
jlamerson is going to like this.


Heh! :D

jmlamerson
06-20-2009, 01:10 PM
jlamerson is going to like this.

If I may open with a rant:

How does Page get listed in the top 12 of anything, except missed tackles, by anyone?! He is the definition of a soft FS. He can't tackle, and he tries for the INT instead of providing coverage. He's never going to be the hard-hitting FS we need to run the 3-4. And he'll never have the coverage abilities to be anything but a liability in coverage. Was he a decent value for a 7th round pick? Sure. Is he the worst starting FS in the NFL? Yeah, by my count. Did he do anything in 2007 and 2008 except help us lose games? No, by my count.

And Flowers, Pollard, and Carr should all be in front of Weddle, Page, Goodman, and Johnson. Weddle's been the definition of inconsistency. Who wouldn't rather have Flowers and Carr over Goodman or Johnson?

hometeam
06-20-2009, 01:25 PM
I agree.. how can page be listed in any capacity in front of flowers or pollard

slc chief
06-20-2009, 02:54 PM
wait until they see our db's next year carr and flowers both will be better with a year under their belt. maurice leggett will be a stud pollard and page should be better with a better pass rush scheme/players. hands down i think we have the deepest and best db's in the afc west

slc chief
06-20-2009, 03:07 PM
what if espn did the same thing with the other positions here is how mine would look

qb's
1.phillip rivers (for now) san diego
2.matt superbowl cassell (soon to be #1) chiefs
3.kyle orton (almost laughable)denver
4.jamarcus russell(big time bust)oakland

rb's
1.ladanian tomlinson(retire already)san diego
2.larry johnson(due for comeback player of the year)chiefs
3.justin fargas(only good once in a while)chokeland
4.kolby smith chiefs

wr's

1.branden marshall(soon to be a bear)denver
2.dwayne bowe(needs to step it up)chiefs
3.chris chambers(injury prone)chargers
4.mark bradley(he is going to have a huge year)chiefs

i could keep going but i think we fare pretty well in all four of these key positions

jmlamerson
06-20-2009, 03:56 PM
what if espn did the same thing with the other positions here is how mine would look

qb's
1.phillip rivers (for now) san diego
2.matt superbowl cassell (soon to be #1) chiefs
3.kyle orton (almost laughable)denver
4.jamarcus russell(big time bust)oakland

rb's
1.ladanian tomlinson(retire already)san diego
2.larry johnson(due for comeback player of the year)chiefs
3.justin fargas(only good once in a while)chokeland
4.kolby smith chiefs

wr's

1.branden marshall(soon to be a bear)denver
2.dwayne bowe(needs to step it up)chiefs
3.chris chambers(injury prone)chargers
4.mark bradley(he is going to have a huge year)chiefs

i could keep going but i think we fare pretty well in all four of these key positions

This is fun. My rankings for all positions (rookies excluded).

QBs:

1. Phillip Rivers (Chargers)
2. Matt Cassell (Chiefs)
3. Jamarcus Russell (Raiders)
4. Kyle Orton (Broncos)

I don't like Russell, but he's better than Orton. Mark me, Orton is going to get his WRs killed this year. He was bailed out in Chicago with a great defense, good HC, good running game, and a great scapegoat in Rex Grossman. He is going to flop and flop badly in Denver.

RBs:

1. LaDanian Tomlinson (Chargers)
2. Larry Johnson (Chiefs)
3. Darren Sproles (Chargers)
4. Darren McFadden (Raiders)

No way Kolby Smith is the 4th best RB. Charles is better than him. McFadden and Bush are better. LaMont Jordan is better. Sproles is a great scatback on turf. And McFadden has a ton of talent and is stuck in a miserable three-headed running game in Oakland.

WRs:

1. Dwayne Bowe (Chiefs)
2. Branden Marshall (Broncos)
3. Eddie Royal (Broncos)
4. Chris Chambers (Chargers)

Bowe's health and attitude make him more valuable than Marshall. People are wayyy to hard on Bowe. He's a thousand yard WR with Samie Parker on the opposite side and Damon Huard at QB. What do they expect? And Royal is better than Bradley. He's healthier, with better hands, and is better after the catch.

OL:

1. Marcus McNeill (Chargers)
2. Brian Waters (Chiefs)
3. Ryan Clady (Broncos)
4. Branden Albert (Chiefs)

McNeill only gets the nod over Waters because of age. And Clady only gets the nod over Albert because Albert needs to show can be great in something other than the pistol.

TE:

1. Antonio Gates (Chargers)
2. Zach Miller (Raiders)
3. Daniel Graham (Broncos)
4. Tony Scheffler (Broncos)

Gates is the best TE in the AFC. Zach Miller is a bright spot for the Raiders. And the Broncos TEs are both pretty good. The Chiefs TEs need to show something before they get ranked top-anything.

DL:

1. Jamal Williams (Chargers)
2. Derrick Burgess (Raiders)
3. Luis Castillo (Chargers)
4. Tommy Kelly (Raiders)

I hate to do this to the Chiefs, and I like our rookies, but Dorsey, Tank, and Edwards aren't top-4. And the Broncos DL stinks. The DLs of the AFC West are pretty bad on the whole.

LB:

1. Shawne Merriman (Chargers)
2. DJ Williams (Broncos)
3. Mike Vrabel (Chiefs)
4. Kirk Morrison (Raiders)

Merriman is conditionaly no. 1 assuming he stays healthy. Vrabel would be higher if he were a little bit younger.

KottkeKU
06-20-2009, 04:25 PM
If I may open with a rant:

How does Page get listed in the top 12 of anything, except missed tackles, by anyone?! He is the definition of a soft FS. He can't tackle, and he tries for the INT instead of providing coverage. He's never going to be the hard-hitting FS we need to run the 3-4. And he'll never have the coverage abilities to be anything but a liability in coverage. Was he a decent value for a 7th round pick? Sure. Is he the worst starting FS in the NFL? Yeah, by my count. Did he do anything in 2007 and 2008 except help us lose games? No, by my count.

And Flowers, Pollard, and Carr should all be in front of Weddle, Page, Goodman, and Johnson. Weddle's been the definition of inconsistency. Who wouldn't rather have Flowers and Carr over Goodman or Johnson?


My thoughts Exactly...except i dont think Page is the worst safety in the league by any means lol, he certainly isnt top 12 of anything...

jmlamerson
06-20-2009, 05:07 PM
My thoughts Exactly...except i dont think Page is the worst safety in the league by any means lol, he certainly isnt top 12 of anything...

You are right. Page isn't the worst safety in the league. He's just the worst starting FS in the league.

Bike
06-20-2009, 05:15 PM
You are right. Page isn't the worst safety in the league. He's just the worst starting FS in the league.
I just wish the guy would get out of the way of his own teammates so they could make a play. He's all about himself - always making a play for the ball and missing the tackle. Terrible team player - terrible FS. We would be richer without him.:D

Big Daddy Tek
06-21-2009, 02:29 AM
You are right. Page isn't the worst safety in the league. He's just the worst starting FS in the league.

Not even close to the worst starting FS in the league. I could argue that at times he has been brilliant. You could come right back and tell me about blown coverages like when he bit on play action for a go ahead Charger touchdown last year. All in all, he's inconsistent, but I do like his play in the Red Zone, usually. I know you have never been a Page fan JM, but lets face it, a FS is the center fielder, they dont play the run or blitz near as much as the strong safety and we have not had the front seven to allow any of our DB's to be outstanding, ESPECIALLY a FS. The coaches seem to love Page. Bob Gretz said that Mike Brown would have took Pollard's spot, not Page's. Do I agree with that? NO. BUT, I think he's better than you do. As far as rankings go, Page makes picks and that alone can get you some cred. He has 10 in 3 years and he's only 24 years old. Alot of upside JM, you cant deny that. ONE MORE THING... He has closed out 3 Choakland Gaider games with picks, you know that counts for somethin J!

Big Daddy Tek
06-21-2009, 02:36 AM
Do you ever appreciate when the Chiefs get praise at any position?

JM's post wasn't because he was mad that the Chiefs got praise, he was mad that Page was rated higher than any of our other DB's and Pollard didnt make the list.

pbatrucker
06-21-2009, 09:52 AM
All these arguments are fine and IMO we have a group of talented DB's that have performed well in a cover too system with no pass rush.
Now the question is, ARE THEY BIG ENOUGH AND FAST ENOUGH to cover bigger faster WR's in a 3-4 system that requires them to play one on one most of the time.
All of you realize playing zone is easier than playing man to man.
:D

Sn@keIze
06-21-2009, 10:05 AM
Once we get a pass rush and our DBs dont have to worry bout doing the front 7s job.

I think Page will be awesome.

YouTube - Jarrad Page Big Hit

And be sure to watch this.

NFL Videos: WK 5 Can't-Miss Play: Page INT (http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d80b5d315)

If you get a chance somehow to catch Jarrad Pages LiveWire its def. worth a watch. the guy really knows how to talk smack and get inside players heads.

Sn@keIze
06-21-2009, 10:24 AM
If you get a chance somehow to catch Jarrad Pages LiveWire its def. worth a watch. the guy really knows how to talk smack and get inside players heads.
Got it!

Check this out guys.

Check out his coverage on Antonio Gates. Hes got some awesome soundbytes in here too.

He puts a good lick on I want to say Sproles too in this livewire clip.

go ahead and fast foward past the first minute if you want to get right to Page

NFL Videos: Big hits, bigger mouths (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d80d7737e/Big-hits-bigger-mouths)

Bike
06-21-2009, 12:50 PM
Apparently the coaches don't agree with your assessment of his play or he wouldn't be doing the job. He is being paid to do it, this isn't High School Prep or college Ball .
They will. Constant missied tackles should not and will not be tolerated any longer. Its just basic fundamental football. I don't care what the front 7 is doing. You got to make the tackle.

Bike
06-21-2009, 12:52 PM
Do you ever appreciate when the Chiefs get praise at any position?
Only when praise is do - if I may interject.

jmlamerson
06-21-2009, 01:19 PM
Do you ever appreciate when the Chiefs get praise at any position?

Only when that praise is deserved. Page is the fifth best DB on his own team (behind Carr, Leggett, Pollard, and Flowers).

The Chiefs are a young team, and Page is a young player. He could improve greatly with a real coach and a real front-7. But I don't think so. He has only one skill as far as I can see - he's a ballhawk. He does manage to intercept a lot of balls at opportune times. That isn't enough to be a good FS, and it certainly isn't enough to be a good 3-4 FS. He's only starting in 2009 because there wasn't anyone better in FA and we couldn't spare a draft pick to pick someone better. But he'll be a weak spot in this defense until he is replaced.

EDIT: What Bike and Big Daddy Tek wrote.

jmlamerson
06-21-2009, 01:27 PM
All these arguments are fine and IMO we have a group of talented DB's that have performed well in a cover too system with no pass rush.
Now the question is, ARE THEY BIG ENOUGH AND FAST ENOUGH to cover bigger faster WR's in a 3-4 system that requires them to play one on one most of the time.
All of you realize playing zone is easier than playing man to man.
:D

At CB, we drafted Washington in the 4th for a reason. As much as I like Flowers, he may not be suited to a lot of one-on-one coverage due to his size and speed. I think Carr and Leggett will be OK. They are both pretty big and pretty fast.

Pollard has the size, the speed, and the desire to hit people. He just needs to improve in his coverage and he'll be fine.

As to Page, please see my previous posts. He has the measurables. I just don't think he has the skills or heart.

jmlamerson
06-21-2009, 01:33 PM
Not even close to the worst starting FS in the league. I could argue that at times he has been brilliant. You could come right back and tell me about blown coverages like when he bit on play action for a go ahead Charger touchdown last year. All in all, he's inconsistent, but I do like his play in the Red Zone, usually. I know you have never been a Page fan JM, but lets face it, a FS is the center fielder, they dont play the run or blitz near as much as the strong safety and we have not had the front seven to allow any of our DB's to be outstanding, ESPECIALLY a FS. The coaches seem to love Page. Bob Gretz said that Mike Brown would have took Pollard's spot, not Page's. Do I agree with that? NO. BUT, I think he's better than you do. As far as rankings go, Page makes picks and that alone can get you some cred. He has 10 in 3 years and he's only 24 years old. Alot of upside JM, you cant deny that. ONE MORE THING... He has closed out 3 Choakland Gaider games with picks, you know that counts for somethin J!

I'll admit that I've always been impressed with Page's ballhawk skills. He will always get INTs. And you may be right. It could just be that he's had miserable front-sevens and he will improve with age. But he just seems to miss so many tackles and get thrown on so many times a game. Except for his INTs, I haven't seen him as anything but a liability. And you have to admit, he misses and awful lot of tackles.

Big Daddy Tek
06-21-2009, 03:34 PM
I'll admit that I've always been impressed with Page's ballhawk skills. He will always get INTs. And you may be right. It could just be that he's had miserable front-sevens and he will improve with age. But he just seems to miss so many tackles and get thrown on so many times a game. Except for his INTs, I haven't seen him as anything but a liability. And you have to admit, he misses and awful lot of tackles.

True, for some reason he has always refused to wrap up.

AussieChiefsFan
06-22-2009, 12:04 AM
Ranking the defensive backs in the AFC West (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-2362/Ranking-the-defensive-backs-in-the-AFC-West.html) http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/09/8.jpg (http://myespn.go.com/profile/violation?ou=afcwestadmin&at=7&vid=1245297625835)
June 19, 2009 11:00 AM

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson
Our periodic AFC West position rankings continue with the best defensive backs in the AFC West, in my opinion:

1. Nnamdi Asomugha (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4489), Oakland: Nnamdi has become, I believe, the best cornerback in the NFL. He is the definition of a shut-down cornerback.

2. Champ Bailey (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=1758), Denver: Bailey is going to turn 31 Monday, and he is coming off an injury-filled season. Still, he is brilliant. This is a first-ballot Hall of Famer who is still a top player.

3. Quentin Jammer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3533), San Diego: There is a pretty big drop off from No. 2 to No. 3, but Jammer is a good player. He had a nice season in 2008.

4. Antonio Cromartie (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9605), San Diego: Cromartie probably won't be No. 4 on this list next year. He'll either bounce back from a poor 2008 or he'll continue to slip. Yet, the team thinks he will improve because he played with a hip injury nearly all of last season.

5. Brian Dawkins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=978), Denver: Dawkins may be much lower on this list next year if his play drops at the age of 35. But he still brings plenty of panache to Denver.

6. Eric Weddle (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10481), San Diego: Weddle is a fine player, who made a ton of tackles for the Chargers last season. Expect continued improvement.

7. Antoine Cason (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11261), San Diego: If Cromartie slips, Cason can take his job. The sky is the limit for this second-year player.

8. Jarrad Page (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9814), Kansas City: Page is a solid safety, who has play-making ability.

9. Brandon Flowers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11269), Kansas City: Flowers made nice strides as a rookie last season. He has a chance to be a fine player.

10. Andre Goodman, Denver: Denver signed Goodman as a free agent this offseason. He is a solid pro.

11. Chris Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4703), Oakland: Johnson took over for the cut DeAngelo Hall (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5533) in the middle of the season and was much better than the high-priced Hall.

12. Brandon Carr (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11363), Kansas City: Like Flowers, Carr looked promising as a rookie cornerback last season. He has nice potential.



____________________

Wow. Surprised Pollard is not on here and even more surprised that Page is ranked higher than Flowers and Carr. Watch out for Leggett... See Ya!!
Same here.:bananen_smilies046:

Chiefster
06-22-2009, 07:18 PM
True, for some reason he has always refused to wrap up.

Yup, going for the big hit doesn't always work like one wants it to.

dbolan
06-23-2009, 09:53 AM
Praise is an opinion in my opinion. ESPN ranked him where they ranked him and I felt ok with it but JM seemed to feel differently. Bottom line is based on a matter of opinion, that means you can be right , I can be right and so can JM as we all have our own opinion. However, just like always I am willing to bet that someone will say I am wrong because that is their opinion, we are all entitled to our own opinion without having someone say, YOUR WRONG or what ever . Instead of saying , YOUR WRONG why not say , thats your opinion? It makes more sense than a inmature bold faced YOUR WRONG statement LOL.

I think I have said that before.....

QUOTE STEALER!!!! LMAO!!

jmlamerson
06-23-2009, 11:09 AM
Praise is an opinion in my opinion. ESPN ranked him where they ranked him and I felt ok with it but JM seemed to feel differently. Bottom line is based on a matter of opinion, that means you can be right , I can be right and so can JM as we all have our own opinion. However, just like always I am willing to bet that someone will say I am wrong because that is their opinion, we are all entitled to our own opinion without having someone say, YOUR WRONG or what ever . Instead of saying , YOUR WRONG why not say , thats your opinion? It makes more sense than a inmature bold faced YOUR WRONG statement LOL.

Nobody said YOUR WRONG. Why don't you try reading posts before you comment on them?

Chiefster
06-23-2009, 01:07 PM
Ok, again, another one that has run it's course.