Offense

[vikingfan]

Hey Guys, big Viking fan here. Anyway, fantasy question here. What type of offense is Haley planning on running with the Chiefs this year? Thigpen was a fantasy stud in my league last year with the spread. New coach, new qb, new TE, what do the Chiefs plan on doing this year? Coming from AZ I would think that Dwayne Bowe could have a big year but there isnt really a compliment to him anywhere.

[Canada]

Hey man, any Chiefs player will get you plenty of fantasy points. Sigh Cassel, Bowe, LJ and Jamaal Charles and you should do just fine!! :bananen_smilies046:

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/photoplog/file.php?n=169&w=l

[yashi]

Bowe should have a big year, but will see a lot of double coverage. It will probably be a pass heavy offense, so Cassel could have good upside in a fantasy league, but at the same time it will be his first year on the team and his supporting cast won't be as good as it was last year.

I probably wouldn't get any Chiefs RBs if I were you, just a hunch.

[vikingfan]

Thanks guys. Enjoy Tyler Thigpen, we might not be talking about Brett Favre if it werent for you guys. hahaha. Childress was sick when you guys signed him off our practice squad, we lost out on Thigpen because went wanted Kelly Holcomb and Brooks Bollinger........

[windwalker]

Thanks guys. Enjoy Tyler Thigpen, we might not be talking about Brett Favre if it werent for you guys. hahaha. Childress was sick when you guys signed him off our practice squad, we lost out on Thigpen because went wanted Kelly Holcomb and Brooks Bollinger........

Your loss. In fact I thought the move to send Thigpen to the practice squad was just plain DUMB.. Bolinger should have been cut. They should have known that Peterson and the Chiefs were looking to draft Tyler had not the Vikes picked him up.

Nah... I think we will keep him.

[pbatrucker]

Bowe should have a big year, but will see a lot of double coverage. It will probably be a pass heavy offense, so Cassel could have good upside in a fantasy league, but at the same time it will be his first year on the team and his supporting cast won't be as good as it was last year.

I probably wouldn't get any Chiefs RBs if I were you, just a hunch.

IMO the Chiefs will run the ball a lot more this year. The Ol might not be perfect yet, but it is improved over last year. Lj has a better attitude, if he stays healthy he should have a good year. The pieces aren't in place for Haley to open up the offense at this point.

[jmlamerson]

IMO the Chiefs will run the ball a lot more this year. The Ol might not be perfect yet, but it is improved over last year. Lj has a better attitude, if he stays healthy he should have a good year. The pieces aren't in place for Haley to open up the offense at this point.

Yeah, look for us to run an offense much like the Pats in 2003 and 2004. Bowe will get his catches, but Cassel will spread the ball around in a short-to-medium precision passing game. We're going to run the ball early and often to keep a young and learning defense off the field as much as possible. We need a better OL and WRs before we come close to the offense Haley ran in Arizona. The Chiefs are going to be in a lot of 17-14 games this season.

I see Cassel with about 3000 yards and 20 TDs. LJ (barring injury) should have a great year, 1500 yards 16 TDs. Bowe will be a very solid 1000-1200 yard, 10-12 TD WR. There's too much uncertainty as to starters at the other positions (Bradley v. Engram, O'Connell v. Cottam, etc.) to say they'll be valuable fantasy players. And while Charles might be worthwhile as a late round handcuff, he's not going to be getting more than 4-5 touches/game unless LJ gets hurt.

[Three7s]

I agree about the running game. LJ wanted the ball and the Worm wouldn't give it to him, now with a different line and Haley giving him the knod I believe he will get atleast 1,000 yards this year , maybe more. The passing game is a toss up but, with Engram in the mix DBs won't be able to double DBowe like they have been because if they do Engram will be there for a first down every time. That is what BE does best is catch the ball as the unseen guy of the offense IMO. I was watching some stuff about the Seahawks on a site and they used Engram on 3rd down quite a bit. Until teams become aware of that he is our 3ed down guy, then once defenses realize that DBowe will be open more often and Haley can open up the offense more. It all falls back to the running game though, if that isn't working , none of it will but, I think it will be a big running year for the Chiefs Offense.:bananen_smilies046:
There isn't any way to know for sure. I know Edge didn't like Haley last year because he wouldn't let him run. I don't care as long as we win games.

[honda522]

BOO!! My friend is a vike fan, I give him crap all the time as much as he gives me. Anyways, no one really knows what going on, we all have speculations. I believe its going to be some type of spread.

[marloweopatchiefs]

mark bradley

[Coach]

I see Cassel with about 3000 yards and 20 TDs. LJ (barring injury) should have a great year, 1500 yards 16 TDs. Bowe will be a very solid 1000-1200 yard, 10-12 TD WR. There's too much uncertainty as to starters at the other positions (Bradley v. Engram, O'Connell v. Cottam, etc.) to say they'll be valuable fantasy players. And while Charles might be worthwhile as a late round handcuff, he's not going to be getting more than 4-5 touches/game unless LJ gets hurt.

I also think LJ could be a late round fantasy steal in most drafts, although probably not in the ChiefsCrowd.com draft. I'm not quite sure he'll be getting 1500 yds and 16 td's though. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say 1000 yds, 12 td's because of the offensive scheme being more pass oriented.

[jmlamerson]

I also think LJ could be a late round fantasy steal in most drafts, although probably not in the ChiefsCrowd.com draft. I'm not quite sure he'll be getting 1500 yds and 16 td's though. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say 1000 yds, 12 td's because of the offensive scheme being more pass oriented.

The thing is, we can't really be more pass-oriented in 2009. We don't have the WRs (Bradley's and Engram are both big injury risks) or defense for it. I know people (maybe rightfully) are getting tired of comparing us to the Pats, but I see us running a Pats-style 2003-2004 offense. Lots of power running and an accurate short-to-medium passing game to keep defenses honest.

Unless we run, and run often, we won't be able to control the clock. Our defense improved by leaps and bounds this offseason, and we finally have some big bodies on the DL, but we aren't exactly a top-15 run defense yet. We don't have a real NT, our DEs are rookies or projects, and our OLBs are old or projects. We need to keep our defense off the field as much as possible in 2009. In 2010, our young defensive players will be more seasoned, and we'll have drafted or signed some more help in the front seven, and we'll be able to air it out some more.

[Big Daddy Tek]

Hey man, any Chiefs player will get you plenty of fantasy points. Sigh Cassel, Bowe, LJ and Jamaal Charles and you should do just fine!! :bananen_smilies046:

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/photoplog/file.php?n=169&w=l

Is that an Eric Hicks jersey, Canada? :lol:

[Three7s]

My guess would be Derrick Thomas, but I guess it could be Hicks!

[Bike]

I also think LJ could be a late round fantasy steal in most drafts, although probably not in the ChiefsCrowd.com draft. I'm not quite sure he'll be getting 1500 yds and 16 td's though. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say 1000 yds, 12 td's because of the offensive scheme being more pass oriented.
I feel your optimism, but I just don't see it. LJ is coming off a couple injury plagued seasons and he ain't gettin' any younger. He's 30 years old and his body has taken a pounding since he's been here. Not to mention a rebuilt offensive line that was one of the worst in the league last year.
If LJ can stay injury-free at least through the bye week, I will be somewhat surprised. For him to do that, its gonna demand that JC gets more than 4-5 touches/game...(IMO).

[Canada]

Is that an Eric Hicks jersey, Canada? :lol:

:lol:Nope, DT!! :bananen_smilies046:

[Bike]

If Herm the Worm were still running the show for us I would more than likely agree with you, however he isn't and that means that LJ has a brand new smile on his face along with his new attitude. When LJ is happy that means he is going to get the ball , A LOT! We need to do that as controlling the ball will be key so we can control the clock thus keeping the opponant Offense off the field. The longer we can hold the ball the better our chance of winning will be.

Our defense has improved huge this offseason but not enough to shut teams down to take the ball so until we can get there we will need to slow down our rate of attack . LJ will hopefully get some big breakout runs helping us score faster than normal, that always hurts the other teams defensive mental.
I'm not denying that LJ my have a new smile, heart, attitude - whatever you want to call it. I'm more concerned about his age, body, and past injuries. I just hope he has the motor to withstand the 19 game pounding he will no doubt receive this season...

[AkChief49]

I'm not denying that LJ my have a new smile, heart, attitude - whatever you want to call it. I'm more concerned about his age, body, and past injuries. I just hope he has the motor to withstand the 19 game pounding he will no doubt receive this season...
love the optimism!!!rep

[Snoopy09]

Larry Johnson will be a beast this year. No doubt he can do the 19 game season but I wonder if he will be happy not getting the ball every down. I hope he gets 2000 yards this year.

[jmlamerson]

2000 yards is laughable and no offense but LJ is squat in my eyes until he proves he is no longer going to try and dance around. Last 2 years granted behind a line that couldnt block ryan sims 5-1(sarcasm but u get it) he has tried to dance way to much. I dont see him lower his shoulder and just try to make something out of nothing. I would love to see charles and his 5.3 ypc average get more looks with his blazing speed. And i cant see were people say we dont have the wideouts to run the spread. Last year we didnt have any stellar wideouts cept Bowe and TG and we were in alot of games. Even though tony is gone the TE was not huge for haley and arizona. I think Haley if he believes in cassel like he says he does will open it up and let the sparks fly. The effects are yet to be determined but at any rate i just want to see improved defense. And for everyone who bashed herm you overlook one big time thing that is HE FINALLY MADE THE CHIEFS YOUNGER... and even though not better he never got a chance to see if it would turn out. It beats the peterson vet plug show that did wonders for our SP appearances! Or the Vermiel offense no show defense and cunninghams absolute crap tastic job at anything...

It did not beat the Vermeil years. What are you smoking? Vermeil's teams had better defenses than the Chiefs under Herm in 2008. Did Vermeil screw up by drafting badly and trading for too many vets? Yeah. But Herm Edwards stripped this team (especially its defense) of its talent, and installed bad players to run schemes that had no chance of working.

Herm did make the Chiefs younger. He traded or let go in FA every single player in his prime and replaced them with undrafted guys. You know how we have big question marks at most positions, despite bringing into 5-6 new starters this ofseason? That's a result of Herm dismissing most of the talent from the team. "Youth movements" only work if the players you bring in are good. And in his three years of drafts and FA, for the most part he drafted terribly and signed terrible FAs.

If Herm were still here, we wouldn't have traded for Cassel. Instead, we'd have drafted Sanchez at 3. We'd have stuck with the Cover 2, despite not remotely having the personnel for it. We'd be a two win team for the appreciable future.

The degree to which Herm Edwards destroyed this team cannot be stated in just one angry rant. I'd rather have Grbac at QB and Lin Elliott at kicker in 2009 than have Herm f'n Edwards as coach.

[jmlamerson]

2000 yards is laughable and no offense but LJ is squat in my eyes until he proves he is no longer going to try and dance around. Last 2 years granted behind a line that couldnt block ryan sims 5-1(sarcasm but u get it) he has tried to dance way to much. I dont see him lower his shoulder and just try to make something out of nothing. I would love to see charles and his 5.3 ypc average get more looks with his blazing speed. And i cant see were people say we dont have the wideouts to run the spread. Last year we didnt have any stellar wideouts cept Bowe and TG and we were in alot of games. Even though tony is gone the TE was not huge for haley and arizona. I think Haley if he believes in cassel like he says he does will open it up and let the sparks fly. The effects are yet to be determined but at any rate i just want to see improved defense. And for everyone who bashed herm you overlook one big time thing that is HE FINALLY MADE THE CHIEFS YOUNGER... and even though not better he never got a chance to see if it would turn out. It beats the peterson vet plug show that did wonders for our SP appearances! Or the Vermiel offense no show defense and cunninghams absolute crap tastic job at anything...

And Charles will fall apart if you give him too many carries. Like most Herm picks, he has every measurable except the ability to stay healthy.

[jmlamerson]

you did see that i wrote though not better didnt you?

You did see that you wrote


he never got a chance to see if it would turn out. It beats the peterson vet plug show that did wonders for our SP appearances! Or the Vermiel offense no show defense and cunninghams absolute crap tastic job at anything...

didn't you?

[Big Daddy Tek]

I think both of you guys have good points. I was a Herm supporter to a point. My stance definitly started to soften as we went through last year though. Herm did finally get us out of the mold that we were in for 15 years, but didnt do it the right way. The fact that we held on to the our skill position vets too long wasn't his fault and that it was very difficult to rebuild while still winning at that point. That to me is all CP's fault. I think a couple of years from now, we will be very greatful that Herm came in did what he did.

Hold on though, I'm not letting Herm off the hook that easy. There was some huge mistakes that happened while Herm was the head Chief. The number one thing that led to our losing was the fact that the youngest team in the league had NOBODY to learn from on the player side. Tony G. and Brian Waters on offense and Donnie Edwards and Pat Surtain on defense. Thats about it. These guys were learning from themselves. Most positions didnt even have an veteran to lead the way in the workout and preperation department, just Herms pep talks. We re-signed LJ instead of Jared (maybe biggest mistake in franchise history) Thats why Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel,Mike Brown,Mike Goff and Bobby Engram are on our team now. These guys will lead by example and by demand. Gunther complained about the same thing when he left.

The second biggest mistake was running the cover 2 in sickness and in health. The cover 2 is already losing the momentum that it had 10 years ago, when you add no pass rush, your finished. The entire scheme is to have the QB release the ball quickly and have people in zones ready to break on the ball. Every cover 2 that ever worked in world history had a good pass rush. What do we do? Get rid of the best pass rusher in football and put our young playmaker (Tamba Hali) on Jared's side, cutting his production down 2/3's.

The combination of the last two points sets our players up for failure, which is the number one thing that you can never do. Herm set these guys up to fail and after reading about a 300 pound OTA weight loss, its only looking worse for Herm. If Herm was still the coach, I dont think that we would be 2-14 like JM suggested, but there is no way that we would be in the position that we are right now from top to bottom.

[jmlamerson]

I think both of you guys have good points. I was a Herm supporter to a point. My stance definitly started to soften as we went through last year though. Herm did finally get us out of the mold that we were in for 15 years, but didnt do it the right way. The fact that we held on to the our skill position vets too long wasn't his fault and that it was very difficult to rebuild while still winning at that point. That to me is all CP's fault. I think a couple of years from now, we will be very greatful that Herm came in did what he did.

Hold on though, I'm not letting Herm off the hook that easy. There was some huge mistakes that happened while Herm was the head Chief. The number one thing that led to our losing was the fact that the youngest team in the league had NOBODY to learn from on the player side. Tony G. and Brian Waters on offense and Donnie Edwards and Pat Surtain on defense. Thats about it. These guys were learning from themselves. Most positions didnt even have an veteran to lead the way in the workout and preperation department, just Herms pep talks. We re-signed LJ instead of Jared (maybe biggest mistake in franchise history) Thats why Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel,Mike Brown,Mike Goff and Bobby Engram are on our team now. These guys will lead by example and by demand. Gunther complained about the same thing when he left.

The second biggest mistake was running the cover 2 in sickness and in health. The cover 2 is already losing the momentum that it had 10 years ago, when you add no pass rush, your finished. The entire scheme is to have the QB release the ball quickly and have people in zones ready to break on the ball. Every cover 2 that ever worked in world history had a good pass rush. What do we do? Get rid of the best pass rusher in football and put our young playmaker (Tamba Hali) on Jared's side, cutting his production down 2/3's.

The combination of the last two points sets our players up for failure, which is the number one thing that you can never do. Herm set these guys up to fail and after reading about a 300 pound OTA weight loss, its only looking worse for Herm. If Herm was still the coach, I dont think that we would be 2-14 like JM suggested, but there is no way that we would be in the position that we are right now from top to bottom.

Here's the thing. It's a myth that Herm's "youth movement" was a good thing. Except for Casey Weigmann , Sammy Knight, Trent Green, and Tony Richardson, Herm didn't get rid of any older players. And he shouldn't have dumped those (except Green). In fact, he signed older players like Ty Law, Boone, Jon McGraw, and Donnie Edwards. Roaf, Shields, Priest, Kennison, Turley, and John Welbourn all retired - aginst Herm's wishes. Kawika Mitchell, Lawrence Tynes, and JA were in their primes when they were stupidly ditched. We cut other people during this time period (obviously), but for incompetence more than age (see Sims, Ryan and Bennett, Michael).

Our team was old in 2005, after Vermiel retired. We needed good young players at every position. Did Herm get any? He brought in only one decent lineman (Albert). He never found a long-term QB. His defensive line picks were disasterous. Less said about his LB acquisitions the better. He did draft Bowe, but only after CP overrode him. His other receiving (WR or TE) picks were terrible. He found some good DBs, but I'd trade the lot of them to have JA back.

Even after an offseason where we signed/drafted a new QB, 2WR, RG, LDE, ROLB, ILB, and maybe FS and RDE, we still have massive holes on both sides of the ball (LOLB, NT, RT). That's because Herm stripped this team of all its talent. He's the Isiah Thomas of the NFL.

[jmlamerson]

you cant say they he never found a long term qb because that is king carls fault. We have not really had a franchise passer since Len Dawson.... Green was great for us but was on borrowed time.

I wasn't saying that the lack of a franchise passer for the entire past few decades (until Cassel) was Herm's fault. But his insistance that he could mold Brodie Croyle into a franchise passer at least retarded the process from 2006 to 2008.

We didn't draft another QB prospect or sign a FA QB because Herm said he had his guy in Brodie. Would we have Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Trent Edwards, Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, etc. if Herm hadn't been in love with Brodie? Who knows. Probably not. But Herm said the Chiefs had their QBOTF - and they didn't. It's another failure on his part.

[jmlamerson]

ya but the plenty of chiefs coaches/gms had thought we had out qbotf not just herm.... woo todd blackledge lol

Just because they failed doesn't mean Herm's didn't fail too. However, other coaches succeeded in other areas. Herm succeeded in almost nothing.

[Bike]

Y O U P L A Y To W I N T H E G A M E.

[Hayvern]

Y O U P L A Y To W I N T H E G A M E.

AARRRRGGGHHHHH..

Bike! Darn it, stop dragging your fingers on the chalkboard man!!!

[Hayvern]

I think both of you guys have good points. I was a Herm supporter to a point. My stance definitly started to soften as we went through last year though. Herm did finally get us out of the mold that we were in for 15 years, but didnt do it the right way. The fact that we held on to the our skill position vets too long wasn't his fault and that it was very difficult to rebuild while still winning at that point. That to me is all CP's fault. I think a couple of years from now, we will be very greatful that Herm came in did what he did.

Hold on though, I'm not letting Herm off the hook that easy. There was some huge mistakes that happened while Herm was the head Chief. The number one thing that led to our losing was the fact that the youngest team in the league had NOBODY to learn from on the player side. Tony G. and Brian Waters on offense and Donnie Edwards and Pat Surtain on defense. Thats about it. These guys were learning from themselves. Most positions didnt even have an veteran to lead the way in the workout and preperation department, just Herms pep talks. We re-signed LJ instead of Jared (maybe biggest mistake in franchise history) Thats why Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel,Mike Brown,Mike Goff and Bobby Engram are on our team now. These guys will lead by example and by demand. Gunther complained about the same thing when he left.

The second biggest mistake was running the cover 2 in sickness and in health. The cover 2 is already losing the momentum that it had 10 years ago, when you add no pass rush, your finished. The entire scheme is to have the QB release the ball quickly and have people in zones ready to break on the ball. Every cover 2 that ever worked in world history had a good pass rush. What do we do? Get rid of the best pass rusher in football and put our young playmaker (Tamba Hali) on Jared's side, cutting his production down 2/3's.

The combination of the last two points sets our players up for failure, which is the number one thing that you can never do. Herm set these guys up to fail and after reading about a 300 pound OTA weight loss, its only looking worse for Herm. If Herm was still the coach, I dont think that we would be 2-14 like JM suggested, but there is no way that we would be in the position that we are right now from top to bottom.

Herm Edwards was an unmitigated disaster from day one. He was a horrible coach with horrible game calling football smarts. He was more interested in having the team like him than actually playing football.

The fact that he cost us a draft pick adds insult to injury. Just about anyone on Chief's Crowd could have outdrafted him, and likely we could have called a better football game than he did.

I just cannot say enough bad things about that guy, the only good thing is that he could come up with a sound bite better than anyone else, other than that, he should be no where near a professional football team again in any capacity. Good riddance.

[Three7s]

I wasn't saying that the lack of a franchise passer for the entire past few decades (until Cassel) was Herm's fault. But his insistance that he could mold Brodie Croyle into a franchise passer at least retarded the process from 2006 to 2008.

We didn't draft another QB prospect or sign a FA QB because Herm said he had his guy in Brodie. Would we have Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Trent Edwards, Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, etc. if Herm hadn't been in love with Brodie? Who knows. Probably not. But Herm said the Chiefs had their QBOTF - and they didn't. It's another failure on his part.
Just thought I'd point out that if we got Flacco or Schaub, we wouldn't be any better. Flacco is the most overrated QB I've ever seen.

[DT14PRIEST]

Just thought I'd point out that if we got Flacco or Schaub, we wouldn't be any better. Flacco is the most overrated QB I've ever seen.

I don't know about if he is the most overrated I've ever seen but he does seem to get more praise then necessary for doing a lot less compared to other QBs thanks to the Ravens D.

But then again the Ravens O isn't exactly staggering so maybe he's worthy of the credit.