PDA

View Full Version : Cassel signs multi-year contract



Jetski
07-14-2009, 03:09 PM
According to the KC Star, Cassel has signed a multi-year contract.

Chiefs sign Matt Cassel to multi-year contract | Red Zone (http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/855)

dbolan
07-14-2009, 03:29 PM
Seen the same on Fox Sports via MSN

Report: Chiefs sign QB Cassel to long-term deal - FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9276376/Report:-Chiefs-sign-QB-Cassel-to-long-term-deal)

dbolan
07-14-2009, 03:32 PM
Looks like they gave seen enough to pencil him in as the "Golden Boy"! That leaves Thiggy and of course, Croyle to holding the clipboard (jockstrap). LMAO!

jmlamerson
07-14-2009, 04:04 PM
Good move. If you're willing to trade a 2nd for Cassel, you sign him long term. Halfway measures never won anybody anything.

The big question now is whether we keep Thigpen for the final year of his contract or trade him now when his value is highest. I say keep him unless someone offers too much (2nd rounder or higher) to say "no."

Big Daddy Tek
07-14-2009, 04:38 PM
One thing that has not been mentioned by anybody is the backup QB competition. Todd Haley has said that he doesn't care about any type of situation (high conract, veteran, undrafted, etc.) when it comes to picking his depth chart. The best will play. With that said. There is no way Thigpen out plays Croyle in training camp if Brodie is 100%. Im not saying that I want Brodie in front of Thigpen, because I like Thigpen alot. But he is just not a seasoned QB like Croyle. You all know what the players and coaches thought of Brodie in last years training camp / pre-season. Bottom line: the guy has a cannon that even Matt Cassell can't match. IF the coaches can look past the fact that he makes Mike Brown look like MR. Durability (which is a big if), I think Brodie VS. Thigpen is a joke of a competition when your looking at SKILL. It was only a year ago when we all put our entire franchise hopes on that kid. Anyway, just a thought. It will be interesting how this all pans out when Brodie is launching spirals at these guys during QB drills.

dbolan
07-14-2009, 04:44 PM
One thing that has not been mentioned by anybody is the backup QB competition. Todd Haley has said that he doesn't care about any type of situation (high conract, veteran, undrafted, etc.) when it comes to picking his depth chart. The best will play. With that said. There is no way Thigpen out plays Croyle in training camp if Brodie is 100%. Im not saying that I want Brodie in front of Thigpen, because I like Thigpen alot. But he is just not a seasoned QB like Croyle. You all know what the players and coaches thought of Brodie in last years training camp / pre-season. Bottom line: the guy has a cannon that even Matt Cassell can't match. IF the coaches can look past the fact that he makes Mike Brown look like MR. Durability (which is a big if), I think Brodie VS. Thigpen is a joke of a competition when your looking at SKILL. It was only a year ago when we all put our entire franchise hopes on that kid. Anyway, just a thought. It will be interesting how this all pans out when Brodie is launching spirals at these guys during QB drills.

I have to agree with that. All of it. :sign0098:

dbolan
07-14-2009, 04:47 PM
In addition to BDK's post...Don't think for one second that Haley has not laid down the law to Croyle. I am sure he has worked on his conditioning, etc etc this iff season. Plus, he new marriage has worn off, so he doesn't care as much about tappng the wife as he did when they first got hitched. LMAO!

warcrychief
07-14-2009, 05:09 PM
well im glad the contract is front heavy. if he doesnt pan out after acouple of years he will be easier 2 move.

wichitaj
07-14-2009, 05:11 PM
Outside of a few people on this board, no one likes Thigpen.

2-14, enough said. change was needed.

matt's the man, now go win me a title.

Bike
07-14-2009, 05:42 PM
But he is just not a seasoned QB like Croyle.
Can't agree with you here. Thigpen has won more games in one season than Croyle has in his entire career (zero).

wildcat
07-14-2009, 06:13 PM
I had hoped that they would give him one year at $15 million, since we have all of the cap space in the world, and then decide what he is worth in the off season. I am sure he would have been more than happy to make $15 million vs $10 million this year. Why would they make a long term decision on him when they had a whole season to make a decision? Maybe they decided they needed to give him a long term deal to boost his confidence?

IlovetheChiefs
07-14-2009, 06:17 PM
It does seem a little premature but Cassel's success last year combined with trusting Pioli's insticts has me mostly excited about this extension too.

Vanilla Garilla
07-14-2009, 06:17 PM
6 year deal for $60 million, 28$ million guaranteed. It looks like we have our franchise QB fellas.

Chiefs QB Cassel signs six-year contract worth over $60 million (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81149f81&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

Bike
07-14-2009, 06:18 PM
I had hoped that they would give him one year at $15 million, since we have all of the cap space in the world, and then decide what he is worth in the off season. I am sure he would have been more than happy to make $15 million vs $10 million this year. Why would they make a long term decision on him when they had a whole season to make a decision? Maybe they decided they needed to give him a long term deal to boost his confidence?
Good teams sign good players long term. Its obvious that Pioli/Haley think MC is the future of the franchise - or why bother trading away our 2nd pick to get him?

Chiefster
07-14-2009, 06:25 PM
Anyone still think that the QB position is still open for competition? :D

Bike
07-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Anyone still think that the QB position is still open for competition? :D
Why no, I don't.

Chief Tyler
07-14-2009, 06:31 PM
Good move. If you're willing to trade a 2nd for Cassel, you sign him long term. Halfway measures never won anybody anything.

The big question now is whether we keep Thigpen for the final year of his contract or trade him now when his value is highest. I say keep him unless someone offers too much (2nd rounder or higher) to say "no."

You have any ideas as to interested teams? I've been playing with different scenarios since this was announced. The best one I've come up with is Thiggy and the ATL second to Arizona for Boldin. A kid can dream :) I think they've given up on Leinart, though I don't think Thigpen is the type of QB that would allow them to be successful with the long ball like they have been, plus they're going to want to make another deep playoff push, no sense in trading for a future QB now.

Chiefster
07-14-2009, 06:36 PM
Why no, I don't.


Me either. :D

warcrychief
07-14-2009, 06:59 PM
I had hoped that they would give him one year at $15 million, since we have all of the cap space in the world, and then decide what he is worth in the off season. I am sure he would have been more than happy to make $15 million vs $10 million this year. Why would they make a long term decision on him when they had a whole season to make a decision? Maybe they decided they needed to give him a long term deal to boost his confidence?

With how the talks are going with the uncapped year next year. he would have been guaranteed 150% pay raise. Im sure that Pioli and Haley saw everything that they needed 2 at OTA's 2 give him this contract. and he is still getting that 15 million this year.

DT14PRIEST
07-14-2009, 08:03 PM
All this bodes well not only for Cassel (who hit the pay day while) but for the Chiefs as well. With Pioli negotiations he frontloaded the contract and gaurenteed the Chiefs have Cassel for at least 3-4 years while not overpaying him (I.E. Detroit/Stafford). With gaurentees in-I think the $28 million dollar range-he payed a NFL experiencedQB ~$13 million less and locked him up for the forseeable future, or at least the years leading up and into his prime hopefully.

After more details of the contract come out we can see how his contract also affects:

A) The Chiefs current cap surplus (somewhere estimated in the ~30 million dollar range piror to his signing).

B) Negotiations with our 09 draft picks (the negotations with Tyson Jackson mainly [as well as our other draft choices] should/will be the main focus of the front office now that the QB situation is settled.

C) The affect on the team and the trickle down from the top now that it looks like the team is shaping up (financially at least)

Just what I was hoping to hear after a couple of weeks of drought on the news front.

DT14PRIEST
07-14-2009, 08:14 PM
I also forgot to put in about the frontloaded contract and how it affects the team postively in the future. Once the gaurentee in the first 3 years is over (assuming the Cheifs have made significant progress during the first 3 years where he is gaurenteed to make $28 million ($ 40.5 million in 3 seasons) and the cap hit drops in the 4th year the team can reload its roster while not having the cap restrictions due to poor contract management. A very cap friendly contract both for the present and forseeable future)

The only thing left now is to wait and see.

Edit: Had to change some numbers around oops.

Edit 2: Jonh Clayton makes a good point:

Cassel was in a leverage position on a one-year deal to command more than the six-year, $63 million pact he agreed to with the Chiefs. With another season comparable to his 2008 breakout performance, Cassel could have commanded more next winter in free agency. Clearly, he wants to be in Kansas City. Pioli held firm in trying to get the average salary number around $10 million a year. He was successful

For those saying wait an see

Vanilla Garilla
07-14-2009, 10:16 PM
For someone that gets as much TV time as Jamie Dukes gets, he is IMO the stupidest anchor they have on the NFL Network. He spoke about the Chiefs as if they made no improvements what so ever over this off season. If I had no knowledge of the team before I watched that video I would be willing to think that Cassell made the biggest mistake of his life and the Chiefs basically jobbed Cassell by screwing him out of money that he never had. I am sorry if nobody else agrees but I just don't like Jamie Dukes. The only thing positive I can say about the man is I thank the lord above that Jamie Dukes and Dan Deirdorf are not calling games together on Sundays or Mondays.

Yeah that's pretty dumb, considering this has been one of the best offseasons I have witnessed.

jmlamerson
07-14-2009, 10:19 PM
You have any ideas as to interested teams? I've been playing with different scenarios since this was announced. The best one I've come up with is Thiggy and the ATL second to Arizona for Boldin. A kid can dream :) I think they've given up on Leinart, though I don't think Thigpen is the type of QB that would allow them to be successful with the long ball like they have been, plus they're going to want to make another deep playoff push, no sense in trading for a future QB now.

I don't think AZ would trade Leinert for Thigpen straight up. Leinert has the big gun perfect for their vertical offense. He just needs maturity and conditioning. Thigpen is the exact wrong type of QB for the AZ offense - too small with an average arm.

Purely guessing, the obvious trade partner is Carolina. Thigpen's a hometown guy, the Panthers are a playoff team in a very weak NFC, and Carolina has an enormous need for a young, competent backup (which McNown definitely isn't). Seattle has to know Seneca Wallace isn't the guy right now and would also be a good landing place for Thigpen. Problem is that those teams probably wouldn't trade a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Thigpen.

Big Daddy Tek
07-14-2009, 11:22 PM
Brodie has yet to win a game for the Chiefs as a starter, even if he plays better than Tyler in training camp what will he do when the helmet gets strapped and there is 11 men from a different team looking at him in the PreSeason? A guy can be absolutely perfect in practice and training camp off the game stage but if he can't win while the clock is rolling and has 60 minutes to get it done there is no sense in having him here. I hope for his sake that he can turn it around I really do but it hasn't been very good so far.

Brodie didn't play in the same system as Thigpen either. That was a completly differerent offense that Croyle and Huard had. When Thigpen did play in that offense ( during the Atlanta game ) he was nothing short of embarrasing. As far as wins go, Thigpen won 2 and crumbled at the end of games. I do like him and think that he can only get better, but he just doesnt have the natural skillset that seasoned QB's do. My point wasn't that Croyle was great and that he should be the backup. It was that in a QB competition he will smoke Thigpen, whether we like it or not. Im guessing that he will be our backup, but If it is truly an open competition, I just dont see him being able to beat out Brodie.


Can't agree with you here (about being seasoned). Thigpen has won more games in one season than Croyle has in his entire career (zero).

I mean "seasoned" in the fact that he has been a QB his whole life. Has a Big league arm, played for a big school, played a million games at QB.

hermhater
07-14-2009, 11:25 PM
Hmm...

I hope this pans out...

AussieChiefsFan
07-15-2009, 12:38 AM
You are nuts, how is Brodie Croyle seasoned at anything but losing games? Thigpen is an outta nowhere surprise and if we don't do something to keep him in KC another team is going to swoop him up next year when his contract is out.Croyle has never won a game , he does have a strong throwing arm but his mental breaks down with the pressure on the pocket and with Thigpen when the pressure picks up he scrambles and atleast tries to get something from nothing.
First Team:Matt Cassell
Second Team:Tyler Thigpen
Thrid Team:Brodie Croyle
That is fact whether we like it or not ;)
I mean, IMO Tyler Thigpen is more than worthy of being first string QB but, Matt cassell is that little bit btter.

And I agree. If Thigpen can't be first string he has to be almost certainly second string!

As for Brodie Croyle, I feel for him but IMO he doesn't have what it takes.

:bananen_smilies046:

jmlamerson
07-15-2009, 01:23 AM
Brodie didn't play in the same system as Thigpen either. That was a completly differerent offense that Croyle and Huard had. When Thigpen did play in that offense ( during the Atlanta game ) he was nothing short of embarrasing. As far as wins go, Thigpen won 2 and crumbled at the end of games. I do like him and think that he can only get better, but he just doesnt have the natural skillset that seasoned QB's do. My point wasn't that Croyle was great and that he should be the backup. It was that in a QB competition he will smoke Thigpen, whether we like it or not. Im guessing that he will be our backup, but If it is truly an open competition, I just dont see him being able to beat out Brodie.



I mean "seasoned" in the fact that he has been a QB his whole life. Has a Big league arm, played for a big school, played a million games at QB.

FYI Thigpen only won one game - the Oakland game. Huard won the Denver game.

Thigpen has his good points - he's tough, can scramble, and isn't careless with the football. But he's probably not a NFL starter and he'd have trouble playing in a conventional NFL offense due to height and accuracy issues. He's a perfect backup QB.

Brodie Croyle is like a lot of Herm Edwards picks - every measurable except the ability to stay upright. If the NFL were a flag football league, he'd be a top-10 QB. But it isn't. He's just not worth the roster spot.

Big Daddy Tek
07-15-2009, 01:30 AM
You are nuts, how is Brodie Croyle seasoned at anything but losing games? Thigpen is an outta nowhere surprise and if we don't do something to keep him in KC another team is going to swoop him up next year when his contract is out.Croyle has never won a game , he does have a strong throwing arm but his mental breaks down with the pressure on the pocket and with Thigpen when the pressure picks up he scrambles and atleast tries to get something from nothing.
First Team:Matt Cassell
Second Team:Tyler Thigpen
Thrid Team:Brodie Croyle
That is fact whether we like it or not ;)

Slow your roll big guy. I dont want this to turn into a I love Brodie and hate Thigpen thing. I like Thigpen alot more than Brodie. I even mentioned that Brodie makes Mike Brown look like Mr. Durability. Im not saying anything bad about Thigpen. Im just telling you the facts. In a fair QB competition in training camp / pre-season, Thigpen could not beat out Brodie. He wouldnt stand a chance.

Don't give me the no wins crap either. I was wrong in my last post. I said Thigpen won 2 games. He actually only won one! Huard won the other one against the Broncos. Thigpen wins= 1 Croyle wins= 0. Throw that stat out the window! You might hate Brodie's wimpy a$$ as much as we all do, but stop letting Thigpens days in the spread cloud your vision!

All I was saying is that IF the backup spot is open to competition as much as any other position that Haley proclaimed is....then Thigpen would have a tough time beating out Brodie. The guy has a cannon and is somewhat accurate. WITH THAT SAID, I dont think that the backup postion is open to anybody other than Tyler.

What do you know about QB's anyway, this is what you had to say about Trent Green: "Ya know, I like Trent and I think he did a better than average job while he managed our Offense." This is what you said about his retirement: "Trent is a great guy and all but, no Championships no big deal." you continued by saying "Yea, he was a decent QB but he couldn't do enough to help us win a SB." Even though he led us down the field to score on EVERY SINGLE POSESSION in the Colts playoff game. Every single one! He should have done more though. huh Chris? Marino should have done more too, cause he's just another loser like Trent!

Sorry for pullin out thread quotes from last month, but I've completly discarded anything that you've had to say ever since you made those ridiculously ignorant remarks. But you know what Chris, it's just my opinion! hahahahaha

Big Daddy Tek
07-15-2009, 01:38 AM
FYI Thigpen only won one game - the Oakland game. Huard won the Denver game.

Thigpen has his good points - he's tough, can scramble, and isn't careless with the football. But he's probably not a NFL starter and he'd have trouble playing in a conventional NFL offense due to height and accuracy issues. He's a perfect backup QB.

Brodie Croyle is like a lot of Herm Edwards picks - every measurable except the ability to stay upright. If the NFL were a flag football league, he'd be a top-10 QB. But it isn't. He's just not worth the roster spot.

I was actually responding to Chris when you were writing this and I too caught my statistical error. Brodie ruling the flag football league: HILARIOUS! :lol:

hermhater
07-15-2009, 03:45 AM
I like your sig.

AussieChiefsFan
07-15-2009, 04:07 AM
I like your sig.
Who's sig? Big Daddy Tek's sig? If that's the one you like I'll have to agree with you there! It's..... funny!

dbolan
07-15-2009, 09:25 AM
The comparison in QB play between Croyle and Thigpen in college is enough to prove who is the legit pro-style QB.

If any of you guys EVER watched SEC football, Croyle took a ton of hits and showed a lot of toughness. Do I think he could work on his frame to be more durable? Yes. Do I think he has had some shatty luck in regards to injuries? Yes.

Let's put it this way...So far he is still on the roster and he makes virtual peanuts for salary. If the big boys upstairs thought he was a total waste, they would have sent him packing by now.

The bottom line is that we have 2 pretty decent back-ups going into an offensive scheme that permits good qb production.

Don't worry, be happy!

LOL

AussieChiefsFan
07-15-2009, 10:49 AM
The comparison in QB play between Croyle and Thigpen in college is enough to prove who is the legit pro-style QB.

If any of you guys EVER watched SEC football, Croyle took a ton of hits and showed a lot of toughness. Do I think he could work on his frame to be more durable? Yes. Do I think he has had some shatty luck in regards to injuries? Yes.

Let's put it this way...So far he is still on the roster and he makes virtual peanuts for salary. If the big boys upstairs thought he was a total waste, they would have sent him packing by now.

The bottom line is that we have 2 pretty decent back-ups going into an offensive scheme that permits good qb production.

Don't worry, be happy!

LOL
Exactly! Be happy. Matt Cassell = Great QB. Tyler Thigpen = Pretty much just as good.

jmlamerson
07-15-2009, 10:59 AM
Slow your roll big guy. I dont want this to turn into a I love Brodie and hate Thigpen thing. I like Thigpen alot more than Brodie. I even mentioned that Brodie makes Mike Brown look like Mr. Durability. Im not saying anything bad about Thigpen. Im just telling you the facts. In a fair QB competition in training camp / pre-season, Thigpen could not beat out Brodie. He wouldnt stand a chance.

Don't give me the no wins crap either. I was wrong in my last post. I said Thigpen won 2 games. He actually only won one! Huard won the other one against the Broncos. Thigpen wins= 1 Croyle wins= 0. Throw that stat out the window! You might hate Brodie's wimpy a$$ as much as we all do, but stop letting Thigpens days in the spread cloud your vision!

All I was saying is that IF the backup spot is open to competition as much as any other position that Haley proclaimed is....then Thigpen would have a tough time beating out Brodie. The guy has a cannon and is somewhat accurate. WITH THAT SAID, I dont think that the backup postion is open to anybody other than Tyler.

What do you know about QB's anyway, this is what you had to say about Trent Green: "Ya know, I like Trent and I think he did a better than average job while he managed our Offense." This is what you said about his retirement: "Trent is a great guy and all but, no Championships no big deal." you continued by saying "Yea, he was a decent QB but he couldn't do enough to help us win a SB." Even though he led us down the field to score on EVERY SINGLE POSESSION in the Colts playoff game. Every single one! He should have done more though. huh Chris? Marino should have done more too, cause he's just another loser like Trent!

Sorry for pullin out thread quotes from last month, but I've completly discarded anything that you've had to say ever since you made those ridiculously ignorant remarks. But you know what Chris, it's just my opinion! hahahahaha

Now, now, now. Don't be "inmature."

dbolan
07-15-2009, 11:07 AM
Exactly! Be happy. Matt Cassell = Great QB. Tyler Thigpen = Pretty much just as good.

Umm...I wouldn't go that far otherwise they would not have went after Cassel.

However, I think they can be good back-ups that may have another opportunity to showcase their talent and newfound schooling.

:D

dbolan
07-15-2009, 11:09 AM
Now, now, now. Don't be "inmature."

There has to be a pamphlet or fold-out on that. lol

SDChief09
07-15-2009, 01:19 PM
Its simple.

Rivers/Manning about to get new contracts which would raise what we have to pay him, and if we had gone franchise tag this year and next, the guarenteed money would be nearly identical between 2 and 6 years...

I love the contract, If ANYONE in Chiefs history has come in and done a better job of leading than cassel, then I missed it...Trent was great, but he didnt have the "it" factor that cassel has, that moxy, confidence, and overall leadership qualities that makes you a star.

Factor in the chances of him getting in trouble(then factor in our other option at the time Sanchez, who has a nickname of "Dirty") and Id say we came out on top.

Can Cassel flop? Sure. But for now, he looks like a guy that will make KC fun to watch for 5-6 years.

I do want to mention that I had to add that in no way am I trying to take anything away from trent green as a player or a leader.

and face it. Thigpen looks to pass, then runs, Cassel looks to pass, runs, looks to pass, then finally crosses the LoS
Thigpen was 54 percent completion percentage last year with Tony Gonzalez, and with all the times he took off with it,
and all the times he dumped it to TG, who had a crazy reception percentage.

Without Gonzo, thiggy slips under 50 percent completions...and lets face it, I liked the guy, i did, but I couldnt sit there and say he was the future, I think hes a great backup QB, thats all. When he scored a TD in Atlanta down 20, and gets hits semi late, not really, and starts crying about it, I saw a guy that was not a leader.

Matt Cassel would never do that

SDChief09
07-15-2009, 01:20 PM
Guess this also means I can now actually buy his jersey with a little more confidence.

SDChief09
07-15-2009, 01:24 PM
there was a comment in there that we scored on every possession in the colts game, this is not true.

we never punted.

Holmes fumbled being caught from behind...

Not Trent's fault of course, but to be accurate.

twhite85
07-15-2009, 02:21 PM
1.The first bold highlighted statement is just your opinion and nothing more because fact is, in a real competition Brodies cannon arm will need to learn how to complete passes from his back since every time the pressure gets a little higher than normal he falls down because he is scared of being hit.

2. As for the rest of your post, sad but, the truth is if Trent Green was as good as Dick Vermeil said he was, I believe he rated him as good as Joe Montana which was complete horse sh!t, then we would have more than 1 Lombardi Trophy in the show case but as it stands, Trent helped us get nothing IMO. Was fun to watch but when it really counted in the playoffs we got nothing. As for Marino, atleast he made it to 1 Superbowl but got his arm stuffed which was how the Dolphins got there. Who beat him? Mr Montana and the 49ers. Would seem yet another QB that couldn't measure up to Joe's standard when it really counts.

I am looking forward to the upcoming season so we can all start to talk about the issues at hand instead of constantly dealing with issues of personal feelings . IMOThe reason that alot of the threads turn into arguements about personal opinions is because people tend to believe that their statements actually mean something and when others don't hold the same opinion, it tends to make the person feel that their credibility is tarnished because their word has been questioned. You can bash my opinion all you wish to but instead of pulling out old thread quotes to attempt and make me feel as though I am under a microscope, look at your own and keep in mind that the other 3-4 billion people inhabiting this planet also have the same right you do to base their opinion and it in no way needs to be exactly what you think.

IMO
Your opinion is wrong
;)


Sorry, but I have to interject here... Last time I checked, football is a TEAM SPORT. With a defense capable of stopping even a high school team, there's no doubt in my mind that Trent would have had at least one ring. He did as much as anyone could ask out of a quarterback. 3 back to back 4000 yard seasons isn't enough to prove to you that he was an elite QB?

Obviously, he wasn't Joe Montana. But, for God's sake, how can anyone put the blame on him for not winning a Superbowl, when there were SO many holes on defense while he was here. It's hard for me to believe that anyone who watched the '03-'04 season could have anything bad to say about Trent (or virtually anyone else on that offense for that matter).

Bottom line, Trent was a stud while he was here, and a top 3 QB in Chiefs history, IMO.

Oh, and it's more like 6 billion. Just for the record.

:11:

twhite85
07-15-2009, 02:33 PM
You sure you don't want to correct my grammer here? LMAO!!!!
I am not saying Trent Green was a bad QB, I just don't think he was great. As for our defense during that stint, you are correct. Now put the Offense that Trent manned with the defense from the 93 - 94 season and that might be the best team ever assembled , that is the Chiefs issue though , it seems we can never get that perfect balance that gets us n the big game. Either our Offense can't do it or our defense can't stop it. I think we finally have a GM in Scott Pioli that is capable of bringing in the players to get it done on both sides of the ball.

I'm not going to comment on that, as it seems that you're the only person who's not over it (including the person the comment was directed toward).

That being said, you are correct, we have been pretty inept at keeping a balance between offense and defense over the last 15 or so years. I think you're right though, I think Pioli represents our best chance at building a solid, competitive team on both sides of the ball.

twhite85
07-15-2009, 02:35 PM
Oh, and as far as Green is concerned: I realize that stats don't tell the whole story, but any QB who can compile back-to-back-to-back 4000 yard seasons is a beast, IMO.

Bike
07-15-2009, 03:51 PM
You sure you don't want to correct my grammer here? LMAO!!!!
I am not saying Trent Green was a bad QB, I just don't think he was great. As for our defense during that stint, you are correct. Now put the Offense that Trent manned with the defense from the 93 - 94 season and that might be the best team ever assembled , that is the Chiefs issue though , it seems we can never get that perfect balance that gets us n the big game. Either our Offense can't do it or our defense can't stop it. I think we finally have a GM in Scott Pioli that is capable of bringing in the players to get it done on both sides of the ball.
That I agree with 100 percent.:sign0098:

dbolan
07-15-2009, 04:15 PM
Keep in mind that in order for him to do that, he had a ton of help from the OLine, the running game, the receivers and most importantly the coaching staff for calling the right plays and having the right people on the field. He did his job .
Just for the record, this has been blown out of proportion to yet again change the subject of conversation. This is suppose to be conversation regarding Matt Cassell and his new contract which I must say I absolutely love. We finally have a young QB that is going to stay with us for at least stay with us for 4 years and if he is all we think, 6 years. Our new face of the franchise is Matt Cassell :D

You are right about the O-LINE. They are what makes it happen...Or not. lol

KottkeKU
07-15-2009, 06:43 PM
i honestly dont mind holding onto thigpen....we have seen first hand how quickly an nfl team can go through its QB's....if Cassell goes down at some point this season (which under our Offensive Line, certainly is a possibility), then we will have a Cassell clone in Tyler Thigpen....no sense in trading him for a 3rd or 4th rounder that might not help us for years down the road...

Hayvern
07-15-2009, 11:58 PM
Its simple.

Rivers/Manning about to get new contracts which would raise what we have to pay him, and if we had gone franchise tag this year and next, the guarenteed money would be nearly identical between 2 and 6 years...

I love the contract, If ANYONE in Chiefs history has come in and done a better job of leading than cassel, then I missed it...Trent was great, but he didnt have the "it" factor that cassel has, that moxy, confidence, and overall leadership qualities that makes you a star.

Factor in the chances of him getting in trouble(then factor in our other option at the time Sanchez, who has a nickname of "Dirty") and Id say we came out on top.

Can Cassel flop? Sure. But for now, he looks like a guy that will make KC fun to watch for 5-6 years.

I do want to mention that I had to add that in no way am I trying to take anything away from trent green as a player or a leader.

and face it. Thigpen looks to pass, then runs, Cassel looks to pass, runs, looks to pass, then finally crosses the LoS
Thigpen was 54 percent completion percentage last year with Tony Gonzalez, and with all the times he took off with it,
and all the times he dumped it to TG, who had a crazy reception percentage.

Without Gonzo, thiggy slips under 50 percent completions...and lets face it, I liked the guy, i did, but I couldnt sit there and say he was the future, I think hes a great backup QB, thats all. When he scored a TD in Atlanta down 20, and gets hits semi late, not really, and starts crying about it, I saw a guy that was not a leader.

Matt Cassel would never do that

OK, I have been quiet here for a while, but I have to speak up here.

We just paid a tremendous amount of money for a guy that we have only seen play 16 games. Those 16 games were played for a team that is arguably better than we are. I hate to be negative, but we just don't know enough about how this guy is going to perform. Any statements made to the contrary are wrong, we have not seen enough of him to know his leadership potential, we have not seen him in the face of Sunday after Sunday being pounded by defensive players because the offensive line is swiss cheese, we have not seen enough of him.

In truth, we just gave a huge amount of money to a guy that is essentially just like Tyler Thigpen. I don't get it, and I clearly admit that the GM and Coaches are in a better positioin to make this call, but we are hung with this now and if Cassel goes out and flops or gets injured, then we are stuck with him.

Sorry, I just don't get this one.

DT14PRIEST
07-16-2009, 01:46 AM
OK, I have been quiet here for a while, but I have to speak up here.

We just paid a tremendous amount of money for a guy that we have only seen play 16 games. Those 16 games were played for a team that is arguably better than we are. I hate to be negative, but we just don't know enough about how this guy is going to perform. Any statements made to the contrary are wrong, we have not seen enough of him to know his leadership potential, we have not seen him in the face of Sunday after Sunday being pounded by defensive players because the offensive line is swiss cheese, we have not seen enough of him.

In truth, we just gave a huge amount of money to a guy that is essentially just like Tyler Thigpen. I don't get it, and I clearly admit that the GM and Coaches are in a better positioin to make this call, but we are hung with this now and if Cassel goes out and flops or gets injured, then we are stuck with him.

Sorry, I just don't get this one.

I'll agree that the Patriots as a whole were a better team then the Chiefs last year and are going into this season but thats about it.

I have to disagree with the notion of 'we don't know if he can take the punishment' theory. He did take 50 some odd sacks last season and I have to imagine was knocked down more then a handful of times in 16 regular season games. Now whether that be due to problems of his own (I.E. holding on to the ball to long or what not) or issues with the line is debateable (Bernard Pollard did take Brady out against that 'phenomenal Pats OLine) or a compliment of both of them can be argued either way.

Regardless of the conclusion to that question the fact still remains that Cassel did manage to make it through the entirety (the exception being in the time Tom Brady played) of the 16 game season while suffering more sacks then Thigpen. He did take a beating last season and was still standing at the end.

There is some truth in the statement in that we don't know how well or poorly Cassel will play for the Chiefs.

That's a given.

It takes time for any new player (a QB especially) to adjust to a new scheme but that's the name of the game. The good thing being that this entire team is learning it together but this is about Cassel. As a professional athelete its his job to make that transition. I'm sure there will be a fair share of bumps and bruises during that learning curve but the basic premise/mechanics of the game are still the same from team to team when it comes to his predicament. I believe he has those mechanics down its just the scheme he has to learn.

AS for money....well...

When dealing with a situation as volatile as this you have to choose the lesser of two evils. The Chiefs had several factors weighing against them when dealing with Cassel:

1) The salary cap surplus they have

2) The looming mini camp and unsigned draft choices (Tyson Jackson in particular)

3) The aformentioned above with the inevitable contract extension talks with other QBs (Rivers and Manning)

Contracts of this nature are risky by default. The franchise tag invevitably demands a lot of money in and of itself for a single season and had the looming contract negotiations of high dollar QBs coming up next season (Manning/Rivers) not demanded the attention of the front offices next season it would have been in the best interest of the Chiefs to wait this trial season.

Everyone's heard the same arguements but they still apply.

Do the Chiefs wait and pay Cassel double what he makes now after this season assuming he plays up to expectations and cripple your future cap room because of it?

or

Do the Chiefs sign him now to a reasonable long term deal and work with what they have in cap surplus and continue to look forward to continual building of this team's long term success hoping that he pans out?

Do you risk now or later? Its a tough choice to make.

warcrychief
07-16-2009, 04:19 AM
i think every1 here is sweating abit 2 much here. This contract is front loaded. He still gets his 15 million 4 the franchise tag. then with in the next couple of years alittle less. if he were 2 go unsigned into next year he would have been guaranteed 150% pay raise. that would have been over 20 million. this deal makes more sense. Pioli knows what he is doing. i like the deal for 1. because if he doesnt pan out with in the first 3 years his cap number drops off the cliff. it is good for Cassel and the Chiefs.

yashi
07-16-2009, 10:18 AM
Locking up a franchise QB before solidifying the OL is a scary proposition with a bad history, so I really hope it works out for us. That's my only concern. The contract is fine since it's front loaded, so the potential of us being screwed is much less. Less guaranteed money than Stafford despite being more proven. I'm kind of indifferent for now, with the potential to be very happy.

dbolan
07-16-2009, 11:40 AM
On top of that, Terrell Suggs got more than Cassel!! So, either we got an extremely good deal based on Sugg's deal, or Suggs is highly overpaid.

Personally, I don't think Suggs was worth that kind of money.

Also, we still have some cap space and I think our O-Line will be improved over last year.

You have to understand that this will be the first year in while that we actually have some stability in leadership. That can make a ton of difference in attitude, determination and self-discipline.

jmlamerson
07-16-2009, 04:18 PM
On top of that, Terrell Suggs got more than Cassel!! So, either we got an extremely good deal based on Sugg's deal, or Suggs is highly overpaid.

Personally, I don't think Suggs was worth that kind of money.

Also, we still have some cap space and I think our O-Line will be improved over last year.

You have to understand that this will be the first year in while that we actually have some stability in leadership. That can make a ton of difference in attitude, determination and self-discipline.

Comparing the pay of a DE and a QB is comparing apples and oranges. We got a good deal with Cassel. It would have cost us more money to draft a QB high than to sign Cassel long-term. Plus we frontloaded the contract, so if it doesn't work out, little harm done.

The Ravens got a great deal with Suggs. He's an elite pass rusher. Those are very few and far between.

Chiefster
07-16-2009, 07:59 PM
Locking up a franchise QB before solidifying the OL is a scary proposition with a bad history, so I really hope it works out for us. That's my only concern. The contract is fine since it's front loaded, so the potential of us being screwed is much less. Less guaranteed money than Stafford despite being more proven. I'm kind of indifferent for now, with the potential to be very happy.


Nicely put, and I share the sentiment.

Rep!

Canada
07-17-2009, 03:05 PM
Does anyone here honestly want a "cheap" QB? I have listened to people complain for years that we do not have a "stud" QB or francise QB. IF you want those things, they are going to cost $$$. Lots of $$$. I hear everyone say he is unproven, but he has more experience than any other QB in this years draft. He won 11 games in the NFL. I don't care what the Pats record was the year before, fact is Cassel went and won 11 games. I could give you 5 games in the Pats undefeated season that they could very well have lost. So if you want to say that Cassel is no Tom Brady then I can't argue that (yet) Don't let past disappointments ruin something exciting. I have seen 6 Chiefs wins in 2 years and now there is someone doing something about it and people are still complaining. If u don't want to watch highly paid QB's, come watch the CFL!!

Bike
07-17-2009, 03:13 PM
We did NOT overpay for Cassel. We needed a franchise QB and its obvios Pioli thinks Cassel is the man or why trade our 2nd to get him.
Good teams sign good players long term.
If you people think signing Cassel was the wrong thing to do, then you probably think signing Pioli was the wrong thing to do also.
And if thats the case I'm curios what you would have done if you were Clark Hunt following 6 wins in 2 years...

Chiefster
07-17-2009, 03:20 PM
All conjecture at this point; time will tell who is correct in their assessments.

Chiefster
07-17-2009, 04:38 PM
I love the pioli signing i just am worried. I love the fact that our starting qb is set finally. Im worried that cassel isnt the answer because he doesnt have a really strong arm. I have yet to see him make all the throws needed on a consistent basis but time says this year will let us know a little more about who he is.


Eggsactly!

Chief Tyler
07-18-2009, 02:30 AM
I love the pioli signing i just am worried. I love the fact that our starting qb is set finally. Im worried that cassel isnt the answer because he doesnt have a really strong arm. I have yet to see him make all the throws needed on a consistent basis but time says this year will let us know a little more about who he is.

I agree with the time will tell part, but all of this weak arm stuff you hear from the media, fans and rivals alike is all bs. Tom Brady was accused of having a weak arm when he took over, Pennington is accused of it now. What I'd want in my quarterback more than anything else is a game manager, that's what Big Ben, Brady and Rothlisberger have in common. Guys like Jamarcus Russel and Kyle Boller have some of the strongest arms in the league, and look where they're at. Strength and control can be developed, work ethic, attitude and personality can't. From the sounds of it, we've got one hell of a team player, gotta love this signing.

warcrychief
07-18-2009, 03:58 AM
YouTube - New England Patriots


Where does any1 see a weak arm? i dont see 1.

hermhater
07-18-2009, 04:24 AM
That didn't look weak.

Three7s
07-18-2009, 07:46 AM
It looked more like a Moss video than one for Cassel.

Chief Tyler
07-18-2009, 01:37 PM
It looked more like a Moss video than one for Cassel.

He's making his receivers look good for sure, threadin the needle all day long. There wasn't anything there to show that he doesn't have an NFL quality arm.

Bike
07-18-2009, 02:59 PM
This shows more than anything that Matt can make the right decision when he is going through his rotation. He doesn't just take the first maybe on the list and when you have a guy that can do that you have a passing attack that will be difficult to stop. I just hope our Oline can give him enough time to see all options.
Definetely. The O-line will tell the tale in 2009...

warcrychief
07-18-2009, 11:08 PM
It looked more like a Moss video than one for Cassel.

some1 had 2 throw 2 him, Moss cant throw 2 himself. i like how Cassel throws a 55 yard strike 2 moss at 0:48 and thats not including the YAC. from the 25 to 20.

Hayvern
07-20-2009, 03:12 AM
I'll agree that the Patriots as a whole were a better team then the Chiefs last year and are going into this season but thats about it.

I have to disagree with the notion of 'we don't know if he can take the punishment' theory. He did take 50 some odd sacks last season and I have to imagine was knocked down more then a handful of times in 16 regular season games. Now whether that be due to problems of his own (I.E. holding on to the ball to long or what not) or issues with the line is debateable (Bernard Pollard did take Brady out against that 'phenomenal Pats OLine) or a compliment of both of them can be argued either way.

Regardless of the conclusion to that question the fact still remains that Cassel did manage to make it through the entirety (the exception being in the time Tom Brady played) of the 16 game season while suffering more sacks then Thigpen. He did take a beating last season and was still standing at the end.

There is some truth in the statement in that we don't know how well or poorly Cassel will play for the Chiefs.

That's a given.

It takes time for any new player (a QB especially) to adjust to a new scheme but that's the name of the game. The good thing being that this entire team is learning it together but this is about Cassel. As a professional athelete its his job to make that transition. I'm sure there will be a fair share of bumps and bruises during that learning curve but the basic premise/mechanics of the game are still the same from team to team when it comes to his predicament. I believe he has those mechanics down its just the scheme he has to learn.

AS for money....well...

When dealing with a situation as volatile as this you have to choose the lesser of two evils. The Chiefs had several factors weighing against them when dealing with Cassel:

1) The salary cap surplus they have

2) The looming mini camp and unsigned draft choices (Tyson Jackson in particular)

3) The aformentioned above with the inevitable contract extension talks with other QBs (Rivers and Manning)

Contracts of this nature are risky by default. The franchise tag invevitably demands a lot of money in and of itself for a single season and had the looming contract negotiations of high dollar QBs coming up next season (Manning/Rivers) not demanded the attention of the front offices next season it would have been in the best interest of the Chiefs to wait this trial season.

Everyone's heard the same arguements but they still apply.

Do the Chiefs wait and pay Cassel double what he makes now after this season assuming he plays up to expectations and cripple your future cap room because of it?

or

Do the Chiefs sign him now to a reasonable long term deal and work with what they have in cap surplus and continue to look forward to continual building of this team's long term success hoping that he pans out?

Do you risk now or later? Its a tough choice to make.

I guess I have to trust Pioli, I think he is a smart guy and since he has a history with Cassel, I have to believe he knows what he is getting.

I will of course be there cheering every great play and jeering when he makes a mistake. I hope I do more cheering.

We had a rule last season that the only time we could drink a beer was when the Chief's scored a touchdown. It was a pretty dry year, though we did not spend much money. I am hoping we do not have to change the rule this year.

Big Daddy Tek
07-21-2009, 04:26 PM
It looked more like a Moss video than one for Cassel.


Cassell Doesn't Need Moss! - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8940)