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DT14PRIEST
07-27-2009, 01:45 AM
NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive Most dangerous 2008 non-playoff teams for 2009 (http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/07/24/most-dangerous-2008-non-playoff-teams-for-2009/)

Old news?

Thought it was an interesting article, albeit brief and completely lacking in terms of evidence. I find it quite interesting that Mr. Dukes believes that the Chiefs have some how imploded this offseason cutting them dry like a stray dog and lumping their offseason moves together in the same sentence in what happened in Denver and anointing the Raiders as a potential darkhorse.

I don't follow NFL network too closely so I don't know how much of a Chief basher or bandwagon media head Jamie Dukes is but the drivel is getting kind of old.

But I digress; everyone's entitled to their opinion regardless of how inane it makes them appear.

KottkeKU
07-27-2009, 02:27 AM
i said the same thing...not sure whats to like about the raiders...yeah, they have a decent defense but they still are under Al Davis' guidance...

The chargers will run away with this division...nobody else is even give them a run...i like the future of our chiefs though..we finally have somewhat of a foundation now..

pbatrucker
07-27-2009, 07:08 AM
I read the same article and also disagreed. The Chargers, on paper are clear cut favorites to win the division, the Raiders have a defense and probably the best stable of running backs in the NFL. But we all know that Al Davis will not let them run the ball on a regular basis, so running the ball on a consistent basis is out. Then Broncos are in for a long season.
I know that some of our homers will start yelling with this part, but here goes. Are the Chiefs improved YES. the offensive line should be better from scheme and coaching alone. IMO until we get behind and have to start throwing the ball, we will run the ball Haley will try to keep the ball as much as possible. he doesn't have the tools to play a wide open aerial attack yet.
Our defense is improved but still have a long way to go. The entire season will depend on how our very young DL plays. The way it looks other teams will be able to run the ball, although not as bad as last year. Our pass rush will come from where? Vrabel has lost a step. The players trying to convert to LB are too slow and probably will be traded.
As I said we are improved, but we still need at least 3 LB's, 3 and possibly 4 on the OL, 2 WR's . Depending on how the season goes we could need an NT, DE and Rb.
I am behind Pioli and Haley, I like the all football no nonsense attitude they have instilled, but they have a few years of hard work ahead to correct the mess left behind by CP and Herm.

jmlamerson
07-27-2009, 03:09 PM
The Raiders, like the Redskins, have all the talent in the world. However, both teams have a bad owner and no constant leadership either in the locker room or in the front office. As such, they're perrenial also-rans (at best).

Also, the Raiders aren't winning anything with Jamarcus Russell at QB.

jmlamerson
07-27-2009, 03:11 PM
And I don't think the author was saying that the Chiefs imploded this offseason, just that we're not remotely contenders yet because of how badly everything fell apart from 2006 to 2008.

KottkeKU
07-27-2009, 04:51 PM
i think our offense has a chance to be pretty decent...our offense goes where matt cassell takes them basically....

but man, our defense has question marks all over now that we switched to a 3-4...people will run on us all day long if they are smart...

DT14PRIEST
07-27-2009, 08:03 PM
And I don't think the author was saying that the Chiefs imploded this offseason, just that we're not remotely contenders yet because of how badly everything fell apart from 2006 to 2008.

You're right I did take his statement out of context when reading it that's my bad.

Edit: I just re-read the article

jmlamerson
07-27-2009, 08:03 PM
i think our offense has a chance to be pretty decent...our offense goes where matt cassell takes them basically....

but man, our defense has question marks all over now that we switched to a 3-4...people will run on us all day long if they are smart...

I'm more optimistic than you about our run defense. Jackson, Dorsey, and Magee are young and inexperienced, but they are at least big enough for the positions. Edwards at least won't move backwards. And our LB corps should be decent enough against the run.

I'm more worried about us getting any pressue on the QB, as our two presumed pass rushers are old (Vrabel) and a converted DE (Hali), and our DBs aren't great coverage guys.

honda522
07-27-2009, 08:05 PM
LMAO, the Raiders?!??? They wont be good untill..........Al Davis croaks.

Big Daddy Tek
07-28-2009, 03:32 AM
I'm more optimistic than you about our run defense. Jackson, Dorsey, and Magee are young and inexperienced, but they are at least big enough for the positions. Edwards at least won't move backwards. And our LB corps should be decent enough against the run.

I'm more worried about us getting any pressue on the QB, as our two presumed pass rushers are old (Vrabel) and a converted DE (Hali), and our DBs aren't great coverage guys.

Like most of the people at NFL network, Jamie Dukes is spread too thin. Him and his colleagues have no clue whats actually going on in most camps because that is just too much to cover. We read every Chiefs article, interview, rumor, OTA news, etc. We have watched every play of every game for years and know our strengths, weaknesses and potential. So when you read one of these guys opinions on the Chiefs, they sound like some guy running his mouth about a team / subject that he just looked into the day before, which he did.

As far as your post JM, I cant say that your wrong about our pass rush or our coverage skills, because I just dont have the play to back me up (which kinda makes you right). BUT, I think that our pass rush will be much better just on scheme alone. Clancy is a psycho playcaller who is gonna have us get to the QB, while getting burned sometimes too. As far as coverage goes, I dont think that any of us have seen enough man to man last year to judge whether or not we can cover. I will throw one thing at you that Im positive about. My guy Leggett can cover man to man as good as anybody on our roster and if it comes down to one of the DB's not being able to handle one on one, he will be out there getting the job done.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. You didnt mention Tank Tyler. I know you are not a huge fan, but dude is strong and might be in the the best position for success that he has had, since becoming a Chief. He is the exact same size as Ratliff in Dallas and I think he's gonna start, come opening day, at NT. He's definitly strong enough.

Hayvern
07-28-2009, 03:50 AM
i think our offense has a chance to be pretty decent...our offense goes where matt cassell takes them basically....

but man, our defense has question marks all over now that we switched to a 3-4...people will run on us all day long if they are smart...

Yeah, I don't think the run defense is that much of a problem, it might still be a problem, but not as bad as last year.

I think we have made some good moves, but our weakness is still going to be against the pass. Yes, we have some good defensive backs coming back this season, but unless we get some QB pressure, we are going to have a long season.

honda522
07-28-2009, 11:52 AM
I wouldn't be too worried about our defense. I can tell they are going to be better than last year. We are going to be more conditioned than last year already, and we have a couple of vets than can help young players on our team.

Three7s
07-28-2009, 01:31 PM
Like most of the people at NFL network, Jamie Dukes is spread too thin. Him and his colleagues have no clue whats actually going on in most camps because that is just too much to cover. We read every Chiefs article, interview, rumor, OTA news, etc. We have watched every play of every game for years and know our strengths, weaknesses and potential. So when you read one of these guys opinions on the Chiefs, they sound like some guy running his mouth about a team / subject that he just looked into the day before, which he did.

As far as your post JM, I cant say that your wrong about our pass rush or our coverage skills, because I just dont have the play to back me up (which kinda makes you right). BUT, I think that our pass rush will be much better just on scheme alone. Clancy is a psycho playcaller who is gonna have us get to the QB, while getting burned sometimes too. As far as coverage goes, I dont think that any of us have seen enough man to man last year to judge whether or not we can cover. I will throw one thing at you that Im positive about. My guy Leggett can cover man to man as good as anybody on our roster and if it comes down to one of the DB's not being able to handle one on one, he will be out there getting the job done.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. You didnt mention Tank Tyler. I know you are not a huge fan, but dude is strong and might be in the the best position for success that he has had, since becoming a Chief. He is the exact same size as Ratliff in Dallas and I think he's gonna start, come opening day, at NT. He's definitly strong enough.
What in the world is up with your fetish with Leggett? He returns a fumble for a TD and picks off a horrible pass for a TD and now he's the greatest CB to ever put on a Chiefs uniform? From my understanding, he was the nickel back for us, and during the plays that he actually did come in, he was just as vulnerable in coverage as any other part of our defense. He just made two good plays, that's it.

stevefuller
07-28-2009, 02:29 PM
I think the two keys to this years defense are:

1)Hali's conversion to OLB.
Could be outstanding at this position.

2)Dorsey plays like a franchise player.

stevefuller
07-28-2009, 02:32 PM
This is how i see our starting defense.

DL- T Jackson- T Tyler- G Dorsey

LB- Vrabel-Thomas-DJ-Hali

CB- Carr and Flowers

S- Pollard and Morgan

Big Daddy Tek
07-28-2009, 03:16 PM
What in the world is up with your fetish with Leggett? He returns a fumble for a TD and picks off a horrible pass for a TD and now he's the greatest CB to ever put on a Chiefs uniform? From my understanding, he was the nickel back for us, and during the plays that he actually did come in, he was just as vulnerable in coverage as any other part of our defense. He just made two good plays, that's it.

:lol: Its not a fetish 7's! All joking aside, I just haven't seen pure athleticism out of our DB's in years. Flowers and Carr are good fundementally but Legget is a burner. I just want a game changer and think Leggett can be that.

jmlamerson
07-28-2009, 03:33 PM
:lol: Its not a fetish 7's! All joking aside, I just haven't seen pure athleticism out of our DB's in years. Flowers and Carr are good fundementally but Legget is a burner. I just want a game changer and think Leggett can be that.

I like Leggett, Carr, and Flowers. I'm just worried about them in the more physical 3-4, one-on-one coverage. I'm not saying it won't work, but Flowers and Carr were drafted to be zone CBs (they aren't very fast or physical), and Leggett is still very unproven. Plus Pollard is a liability in coverage, Mike Brown is injury-prone, and Page couldn't tackle my grandmother. That's worst-case, I know. I'm not saying we need to find replacements or that we're doomed. Just that I'm worried about them in 2009.

And I don't think Tank starts this year unless Edwards gets hurt. Tank can bench press a ton, he's the right size, but he was driven backward by a single guard almost every game in 2008. It's a matter of technique and motor, not measurables.

Edwards isn't great (or really even good). But he'll at least hold his ground. If our NT is getting pushed backward by double-teams, it will be an awfully, awfully long year.

rodu
07-28-2009, 08:52 PM
I think the two keys to this years defense are:

1)Hali's conversion to OLB.
Could be outstanding at this position.

2)Dorsey plays like a franchise player.

I think that's a fair assessment

Coach
07-28-2009, 11:13 PM
The Raiders, like the Redskins, have all the talent in the world. However, both teams have a bad owner and no constant leadership either in the locker room or in the front office. As such, they're perrenial also-rans (at best).

Also, the Raiders aren't winning anything with Jamarcus Russell at QB.

I heard someone on NFL radio the other day mention that even the Lions have more wins than the Raiders in the last 5 years. Pretty sad considering the Lions haven't won a game in the last 20 months.:yahoo:

Three7s
07-28-2009, 11:44 PM
I heard someone on NFL radio the other day mention that even the Lions have more wins than the Raiders in the last 5 years. Pretty sad considering the Lions haven't won a game in the last 20 months.:yahoo:
The Chiefs were the Lions last win. :(

honda522
07-29-2009, 12:32 AM
This is how i see our starting defense.

DL- T Jackson- T Tyler- G Dorsey

LB- Vrabel-Thomas-DJ-Hali

CB- Carr and Flowers

S- Pollard and Morgan
I think you meant Page and Pollard.

Seek
07-29-2009, 08:49 AM
The Raiders lack a QB. I truly think they got a huge bust in Russell. They also lack an offensive line. Their defense is okay, but not great.

Also, I am not sure how stable the coaching is. Just when you think the team is starting to progress, Al Davis fires the coach, and cuts a premier player.

He drafted questionably the 4th best receiver in the draft with his first pick, over Crabtree and then cut their 6th round pick before they signed him???

Even if he team has more talent thant he Chiefs or Donkies. That team is highly unstable.

jmlamerson
07-29-2009, 11:20 AM
I think you meant Page and Pollard.

I think you meant Mike Brown and Pollard.

stevefuller
07-29-2009, 12:56 PM
Some really interesting points made in this thread.

Carr and Flowers can definately play man to man. Brandon Flowers does'nt have the great size, however he's as physical as they come. Leggett. Looks athletic as hell thats for sure.Sleeper here is the boom or bust corner from Ohio State-Donald Washington. He'll be a great not just good great corner if he takes the pro game seriously. He's soft as a tackler but has all the tangibles of a SHUTDOWN corner.

I really like DuJuan Morgan. He's a starter. If he has any range at all he'll out play someone. (Maybe it's Bonecrusher at his true position of SS.) I personally do not like Page.Mike Brown can not stay on the field and he's past it.

halfast
07-30-2009, 07:27 PM
I hate to say it but the raiders do have great players....BUT they will NEVER be a good team until A certain MR. Davis stops micromanaging the team!!

AkChief49
07-31-2009, 06:21 AM
The Raiders lack a QB. I truly think they got a huge bust in Russell. They also lack an offensive line. Their defense is okay, but not great.

Also, I am not sure how stable the coaching is. Just when you think the team is starting to progress, Al Davis fires the coach, and cuts a premier player.

He drafted questionably the 4th best receiver in the draft with his first pick, over Crabtree and then cut their 6th round pick before they signed him???

Even if he team has more talent thant he Chiefs or Donkies. That team is highly unstable.they did pick up their next starter-Garcia. Guy has some game left.

Raiders4life
07-31-2009, 06:52 PM
This division as a whole is up for grabs. You guys could make some noise.. if Cassell steps up with a healthy/motivated Larry Johnson. Your D has to step up BIG TIME tho. You have potential. I think Oakland and KC are going to be set up long term. SD is overatted.. Denver's ****ed.. lol.

But Oakland is going to be tough. Tom Cable is a tough, smart coach. We actually do have a line. Mario Henderson is going to be a good LT for us. Samson Satele in, Khalif Barnes on the Right. Gallery and Carlisle Excellent Guards.

JaMarcus is going to surprise. You can say what you want.. but when he got settled down and we got Henderson and good Receivers in the lineup (Schilens/Higgins) he Shined. 92 QB rating the last 7 games of the season.

Oaklands game play is going to be to pound the Rock. Someone mentioned that we wont run the ball because of Al Davis... That couldnt be further from the truth. Darren McFadden/Michael Bush/Justin Fargas are going to get a LOT of work. With Lorenzo Neal/Oren O'neal paving the way.

Overall i think Oakland is going to surprise a lot of people. It isnt the same team, you'll see that. But i dont think You guys will be the same team, you'll be better. No matter what neither team should be underated.

jmlamerson
07-31-2009, 06:54 PM
they did pick up their next starter-Garcia. Guy has some game left.

Garcia has some skills left, but they're not suited for the vertical passing game the Raiders have been building. Walker and Bey were signed to stretch the field, not go over the middle. Garcia's arm just isn't good enough. I think he's there more as a mentor to JaMarcus than a legimate threat to take his spot.

Raiders4life
07-31-2009, 07:44 PM
Garcia has some skills left, but they're not suited for the vertical passing game the Raiders have been building. Walker and Bey were signed to stretch the field, not go over the middle. Garcia's arm just isn't good enough. I think he's there more as a mentor to JaMarcus than a legimate threat to take his spot.

Every Receiver on the Raiders Roster is a down field threat.. except Javon Walker. He's going to be more of an inermediate/Possesion receiver for us. Tho he can go long, not nearly as well as Schilens/Bey/Higgins/Murphy. Zach Miller at TE is going to see A LOT of action.

I think with Bowe, Mark Bradley is pretty good for you guys. Gonzo is gonna be missed big time though. With both teams the Offensive Line Pass Protection is going to be Huge.

Raiders4life
07-31-2009, 08:26 PM
You guys have a Miller who is a beast Bey is TBD but the rest your wideouts dont scare me.... Run game is really strong with Dmac and fargas....but the QB is a bum he is just not very good and never will be Jruss is a BUST

Chaz Schilens is a good Receiver. Young, 6'4 230 4.3 very good hands. Became an excellent target for Russell at the end of the season, hopefully more to come. Johnie Lee Higgins.. Excellent slot man, electrifying punt returner as well. But dude, i respect your opinion... But JaMarcus Russell is FARRR from a bust. 13 TD's 9 picks his first year with 3 dif playcallers, worst OT's WR's in the league most of the year. (harris/green lelie/curry). He's gonna be fine, but i understand your opinion.

Raiders4life
07-31-2009, 08:29 PM
You guys have a Miller who is a beast Bey is TBD but the rest your wideouts dont scare me.... Run game is really strong with Dmac and fargas....but the QB is a bum he is just not very good and never will be Jruss is a BUST

Michael Bush is an excellent Back as well. Forgot about him. I understand why you or anyone else wouldnt necesarily be "afraid" of our Wideouts. They're young, a lot to learn/Experience. All have amazing talent tho.

I think your guys best bet is to pound it with LJ.. have 3-4 wideout sets with LJ in the backfield.. spread out the D and pound it. Open up pass. Juss my opinion.

Three7s
08-01-2009, 12:56 AM
Chaz Schilens is a good Receiver. Young, 6'4 230 4.3 very good hands. Became an excellent target for Russell at the end of the season, hopefully more to come. Johnie Lee Higgins.. Excellent slot man, electrifying punt returner as well. But dude, i respect your opinion... But JaMarcus Russell is FARRR from a bust. 13 TD's 9 picks his first year with 3 dif playcallers, worst OT's WR's in the league most of the year. (harris/green lelie/curry). He's gonna be fine, but i understand your opinion.
I didn't really see much from Russell, other than that he has a great arm, but just isn't very accurate. However, I think Garcia will help your team a ton if Russell stinks. He's a solid veteran who knows how to win. You just have to worry about your O-line.

Raiders4life
08-01-2009, 02:35 AM
I didn't really see much from Russell, other than that he has a great arm, but just isn't very accurate. However, I think Garcia will help your team a ton if Russell stinks. He's a solid veteran who knows how to win. You just have to worry about your O-line.

In both games against KC last year he had bad games. If you'd seen the last 5-6 games of the season he improved dramatically. Mario Henderson stepped in and didnt allow a sack against julius peppers, mario williams, gaines adams, and NE (seymour LB's). With Khalif Barnes coming from Jacksonville. I think we'll improve from last year with the 2. Our whole unit as a whole will balance each other, run/pass/playwise/counterization. It all factors in.

I think brandon albert's gonna be pretty dang good for you guys tho.