PDA

View Full Version : Dorsey Fails Conditioning Test



jmlamerson
07-31-2009, 06:50 PM
The Chiefs' conditioning test is over. Most passed. Some didn't. Here's one who didn't | Red Zone (http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/872)

I predict Jackson, Magee, and Boone are starting ahead of Dorsey by Week 7.

DMN
07-31-2009, 07:40 PM
I want so badly for these young guys to succeed, but this is gonna be a hard transition for and for dorsey the most. I really like tank as well. Nothing against boone but I would love to see him take the starting job.

yashi
07-31-2009, 07:57 PM
Our DL is going to be so bad this year... again. Sigh.

jmlamerson
08-01-2009, 11:26 AM
Our DL is going to be so bad this year... again. Sigh.

I really, really don't think so. I don't think they'll get a ton of pressure on the QB, but they'll be solid against the run. Which is the first and most important step.

I think our problem will be those DL drafted under Herm/Carl. But I don't foresee Tank, McBride, or Dorsey starting.

I think by midseason, our starting front seven will be:

DL - Jackson/Edwards/Magee, with Boone as the primary DE reserve

LB - Hali/Thomas/DJ/Vrabel, with Beisel as the primary reserve

And it wouldn't shock me if we signed an OLB to replace Hali as the starter. No, I am not a fan of Herm's DL picks.

honda522
08-01-2009, 11:47 AM
Hali wasn't a pick from Herm. Anyways, wasn't Dorsey still injured? I wouldn't expect a player to pass a test if they weren't 100% Healthy.

jmlamerson
08-01-2009, 12:35 PM
Hali wasn't a pick from Herm. Anyways, wasn't Dorsey still injured? I wouldn't expect a player to pass a test if they weren't 100% Healthy.

The hell he wasn't. Hali was Herm's very first pick for the Chiefs, the 1st rounder in 2006.

Dorsey is still injured, sure. It's the same injury as the one at LSU. That doesn't speak well to his ability to stay on the field during the regular season. Which, as you may recall, is common to most Herm picks.

honda522
08-01-2009, 12:42 PM
The hell he wasn't. Hali was Herm's very first pick for the Chiefs, the 1st rounder in 2006.

Dorsey is still injured, sure. It's the same injury as the one at LSU. That doesn't speak well to his ability to stay on the field during the regular season. Which, as you may recall, is common to most Herm picks.
Maybe he was, I thought Dick picked him and he played in 05 in that season opener against the Jets.

My bad.

jmlamerson
08-01-2009, 02:31 PM
Maybe he was, I thought Dick picked him and he played in 05 in that season opener against the Jets.

My bad.

I think you're thinking of DJ. Who I'm dying to see on the field this season. I think this has to be his make-or-break year with the Chiefs. And I think he'll do awesome in the 3-4.

yashi
08-01-2009, 03:19 PM
I really, really don't think so. I don't think they'll get a ton of pressure on the QB, but they'll be solid against the run. Which is the first and most important step.

I think our problem will be those DL drafted under Herm/Carl. But I don't foresee Tank, McBride, or Dorsey starting.

I think by midseason, our starting front seven will be:

DL - Jackson/Edwards/Magee, with Boone as the primary DE reserve

LB - Hali/Thomas/DJ/Vrabel, with Beisel as the primary reserve

And it wouldn't shock me if we signed an OLB to replace Hali as the starter. No, I am not a fan of Herm's DL picks.

2 rookies and a rotational DT in the worst run defense in the league last year? Rookie D linemen always struggle, and Ron Edwards would surely be among the worst NTs in the league. I love this team, but the only DL I can think of that could be worse this season is Denver's.

jmlamerson
08-01-2009, 04:00 PM
2 rookies and a rotational DT in the worst run defense in the league last year? Rookie D linemen always struggle, and Ron Edwards would surely be among the worst NTs in the league. I love this team, but the only DL I can think of that could be worse this season is Denver's.

It's a myth that a rookie DL always struggles. It was used so many times to explain the failures of Herm's picks that people have come to believe it. I'm not saying that our DL will be great, or even that good. Just that our front seven will be good against the run.

Edwards is a very decent run-stopper. He's got the size (6'3" , 320 lbs.) and he doesn't give up ground. He is just a terrible Cover 2 DT. And you can't blame him for 2008 - Herm wanted to show off Tank and Dorsey. Now, would Edwards be the worst NT in the league behind whomever the Broncos start (probably Fields)? Yes. But he's good enough, I think, that he won't be pushed back by a double team. And Magee and Jackson will also do well against the run. And I'd be shocked if DJ and Thomas didn't rack up at least 90 tackles apiece in run support.

We aren't going to get much pressure on the QB when we rush three or four (or maybe even five). But we aren't going to get knocked backwards. That's the first step.

honda522
08-01-2009, 04:54 PM
I think you're thinking of DJ. Who I'm dying to see on the field this season. I think this has to be his make-or-break year with the Chiefs. And I think he'll do awesome in the 3-4.
Thats probably right, he and Jared I think were putting pressure on Penninton ALL DAY that day.:yahoo:

DMN
08-01-2009, 11:13 PM
Unless these guys really come together as a unit I think that Pendergast's blood pressure is going to have to be monitored on a quarterly basis. Oh and if Jackson is starting... His *** needs to be signed and in camp yesterday.

honda522
08-01-2009, 11:16 PM
Unless these guys really come together as a unit I think that Pendergast's blood pressure is going to have to be monitored on a quarterly basis. Oh and if Jackson is starting... His *** needs to be signed and in camp yesterday.
I concurr

chiefan
08-02-2009, 03:09 AM
According to Bob Gretz, Alex Magee was looking better than Tyson Jackson in OTA's, especially at the pass rush, so I'm praying for him to beat out Glenn Dorsey. We should trade Glenn Dorsey while we have the cap space, and pick up a first in next years draft. I would wait until week 6 though, in case Dorsey blows it up.

AussieChiefsFan
08-02-2009, 03:12 AM
Welcome to the Crowd!:bananen_smilies046: :welcome: :sign0098:

jmlamerson
08-02-2009, 03:18 AM
According to Bob Gretz, Alex Magee was looking better than Tyson Jackson in OTA's, especially at the pass rush, so I'm praying for him to beat out Glenn Dorsey. We should trade Glenn Dorsey while we have the cap space, and pick up a first in next years draft. I would wait until week 6 though, in case Dorsey blows it up.

Agreed. A lot of people know I have no love for Dorsey. I hated the pick when we made it, I hated it through 2008, and I hate it today. And I have high hopes for both Jackson and Magee. They'll be better than Dorsey as a DE - by a long shot.

chiefan
08-02-2009, 03:29 AM
The hell he wasn't. Hali was Herm's very first pick for the Chiefs, the 1st rounder in 2006.

Dorsey is still injured, sure. It's the same injury as the one at LSU. That doesn't speak well to his ability to stay on the field during the regular season. Which, as you may recall, is common to most Herm picks.


I see you are a Herm Hater. (Right on, I hate him too.)

Anyways, isn't B.J. Raji Playing some 3-4 DE, and he is only 6-2. If Glenn Dorsey can gain some speed, (I would like to see him run the 40 in around a 5.05) and with the strength he has, he could be a decent pass rusher from the edge. He works well in open space, so I actually think him playing DE isn't too much of a drop off, 3 more inches, and everyone would be raving at the thought of him as a 5-tech. I'm not saying he will have huge or immediate success, but I am saying a lot of people are writing him off before actually watching him play. (I thought about it more, after posting the first comment.)

I still think Magee would beat out Dorsey in camp, but with all the money we have invested in Dorsey, (Thanks Herm, for not trading down, you suck.) it comes down to politics, we have to start the man with the most money. (10M a year, Dorsey wins.)

stricken721
08-02-2009, 03:57 AM
Just found out Peppers got the deal he was lookin for so he is out. DOrsey better get his a$$ in gear orhe will lose his position.


Where did you find this out?

DMN
08-02-2009, 12:56 PM
Just found out Peppers got the deal he was lookin for so he is out. DOrsey better get his a$$ in gear orhe will lose his position.

Hmm I haven't heard this yet. Last I heard he has only signed his tag. Something like 16.3 million this season. Only reason I say is that I live in Charlotte and talk football with two Panther fans on a regular basis. I think that you just may have gotten confused about the tag.

jmlamerson
08-02-2009, 01:06 PM
I see you are a Herm Hater. (Right on, I hate him too.)

Anyways, isn't B.J. Raji Playing some 3-4 DE, and he is only 6-2. If Glenn Dorsey can gain some speed, (I would like to see him run the 40 in around a 5.05) and with the strength he has, he could be a decent pass rusher from the edge. He works well in open space, so I actually think him playing DE isn't too much of a drop off, 3 more inches, and everyone would be raving at the thought of him as a 5-tech. I'm not saying he will have huge or immediate success, but I am saying a lot of people are writing him off before actually watching him play. (I thought about it more, after posting the first comment.)

I still think Magee would beat out Dorsey in camp, but with all the money we have invested in Dorsey, (Thanks Herm, for not trading down, you suck.) it comes down to politics, we have to start the man with the most money. (10M a year, Dorsey wins.)

Raji is playing NT, not DE, to my understanding. And Dorsey's 6'1" like I'm 7'5". He's closer to 5'10" than 6'1". He's also badly conditioned and injury prone.

Let me put it this way. Dorsey is undersized for the position he is being moved to. He needs strength, athleticism, motor, endurance, and technique to overcome this handicap. I don't think any of those five are his strong spot.

And I don't think any player drafted or FA signed prior to 2009 can claim a starting spot based on money. I don't think our current brain trust would hesitate even a second to pull Dorsey is he fails at DE. If anything, I think they're looking to erase the embarrassment of the Herm years ASAP.

wolfpack
08-02-2009, 01:10 PM
what doesnt look good is when three of the five starting o-line dosent pass it. waters needs to get his whinning a$$ going.

pbatrucker
08-02-2009, 01:29 PM
Raji is playing NT, not DE, to my understanding. And Dorsey's 6'1" like I'm 7'5". He's closer to 5'10" than 6'1". He's also badly conditioned and injury prone.

Let me put it this way. Dorsey is undersized for the position he is being moved to. He needs strength, athleticism, motor, endurance, and technique to overcome this handicap. I don't think any of those five are his strong spot.

And I don't think any player drafted or FA signed prior to 2009 can claim a starting spot based on money. I don't think our current brain trust would hesitate even a second to pull Dorsey is he fails at DE. If anything, I think they're looking to erase the embarrassment of the Herm years ASAP.

You are correct in that Raji is playing NT.
And you are also correct that money will not determine who plays. Pioli and Haley will play whoeever gives the Chiefs the best chance to win.
If we were to trade Dorsey, and I doubt that will happen because of the cap hit. The GM of the Falcons has liked Dorsey since he came out of LSU. That would be the most likely team. It would have to be for a draft choice. The Falcons are not that strong on defense.

Big Daddy Tek
08-02-2009, 05:23 PM
Raji is playing NT, not DE, to my understanding. And Dorsey's 6'1" like I'm 7'5". He's closer to 5'10" than 6'1". He's also badly conditioned and injury prone.

Let me put it this way. Dorsey is undersized for the position he is being moved to. He needs strength, athleticism, motor, endurance, and technique to overcome this handicap. I don't think any of those five are his strong spot.

And I don't think any player drafted or FA signed prior to 2009 can claim a starting spot based on money. I don't think our current brain trust would hesitate even a second to pull Dorsey is he fails at DE. If anything, I think they're looking to erase the embarrassment of the Herm years ASAP.

Dammit JM, Im gonna kick you in the balls now. Its not a myth that rookie D-lineman have rough rookie years and Dorsey had better than alot of them. Mario Williams? You would have been all over him if we were Texans fans. He's now (arguably) the best DE in football. Sorry J, Dorsey was just too damn good in college for me to write him off already. This is obviously not the best system for him and I understand that, but I also beleive that clancy will puit him in a position to succeed.

Big Daddy Tek
08-02-2009, 05:23 PM
Raji is playing NT, not DE, to my understanding. And Dorsey's 6'1" like I'm 7'5". He's closer to 5'10" than 6'1". He's also badly conditioned and injury prone.

Let me put it this way. Dorsey is undersized for the position he is being moved to. He needs strength, athleticism, motor, endurance, and technique to overcome this handicap. I don't think any of those five are his strong spot.

And I don't think any player drafted or FA signed prior to 2009 can claim a starting spot based on money. I don't think our current brain trust would hesitate even a second to pull Dorsey is he fails at DE. If anything, I think they're looking to erase the embarrassment of the Herm years ASAP.

Dammit JM, Im gonna kick you in the balls now. Its not a myth that rookie D-lineman have rough rookie years and Dorsey had better than alot of them. Mario Williams? You would have been all over him if we were Texans fans. He's now (arguably) the best DE in football. Sorry J, Dorsey was just too damn good in college for me to write him off already. This is obviously not the best system for him and I understand that, but I also beleive that clancy will puit him in a position to succeed.

Three7s
08-02-2009, 06:14 PM
Dammit JM, Im gonna kick you in the balls now. Its not a myth that rookie D-lineman have rough rookie years and Dorsey had better than alot of them. Mario Williams? You would have been all over him if we were Texans fans. He's now (arguably) the best DE in football. Sorry J, Dorsey was just too damn good in college for me to write him off already. This is obviously not the best system for him and I understand that, but I also beleive that clancy will puit him in a position to succeed.
DE and DT are two very different positions, but just for the sake of a good arguement, don't say it's not a myth to Jared Allen. He was phenomenal in his rookie year of 05.

jmlamerson
08-02-2009, 06:20 PM
Dammit JM, Im gonna kick you in the balls now. Its not a myth that rookie D-lineman have rough rookie years and Dorsey had better than alot of them. Mario Williams? You would have been all over him if we were Texans fans. He's now (arguably) the best DE in football. Sorry J, Dorsey was just too damn good in college for me to write him off already. This is obviously not the best system for him and I understand that, but I also beleive that clancy will puit him in a position to succeed.

Gonna kick me twice?

My sour attitude to Dorsey didn't happen because of his performance last year (although it didn't help). I hated the pick from the beginning. Dorsey was great against smaller college OLs. I never thought he had what it took to be a NFL starter against NFL-size guards. Undersized DTs are like running QBs. Great for the college game where players are smaller and speed is more important. But they just don't work in the NFL unless they are Warren Sapp/Steve Young type talent. And I don't think Dorsey is.

And some DL take time to develop. Others don't. It's the same for every position in the NFL. If you feel comfortable calling a WR, RB, QB, OL, CB, etc. a bust or underachiever after a rookie season, you can do the same for DL.

And I know you have no way to verify this, but I loved the Williams pick when the Texans made it. And Williams didn't have a bad rookie season at all - people just said so because they wanted him to fail because of the hype behind Reggie Bush and Vince Young.

jmlamerson
08-02-2009, 06:31 PM
DE and DT are two very different positions, but just for the sake of a good arguement, don't say it's not a myth to Jared Allen. He was phenomenal in his rookie year of 05.

I'd feel a whole lot better about Dorsey if the Chiefs hadn't finished 30th in rushing defense last year. I can understand not getting sacks or even TFLs. Our DEs and LBs stunk and teams didn't even bother double teaming anyone. But Dorsey was run over most downs by a single guard. He's just too small for the pro game.

Bike
08-02-2009, 06:50 PM
I still think Magee would beat out Dorsey in camp, but with all the money we have invested in Dorsey, (Thanks Herm, for not trading down, you suck.) it comes down to politics, we have to start the man with the most money. (10M a year, Dorsey wins.)
I think Pioli/Haley starts the people that give us the best chance to be successful - not who has the biggest contract.
Witness Pioli/Bilacheck benching their million dollar qb (Bledsoe) for a little known and little paid Tom Brady...

DT14PRIEST
08-03-2009, 09:33 PM
I dont see it happening with Glenn unless he starts stuffing his shoes. He's too small, too injury prone, not strong enough, too short; just not what you look for in 3-4 DL. I think he'll become a situational rotation DE/3-tech Pass rush specialist or fill into whatever 4-3 over/under role people are saying Clancy will run this year and maybe next before the Chiefs cut their losses but thats just me being pessimistic.

But then maybe he'll find his mean streak this year; settle into his groove as a pro and spawn into something special like were all holding our breaths hoping that he'll become.

Who knows... I don't for sure. I'm just going by what I saw.

I'm not calling him a bust but on my 'bust scale' he's definitely in the 'needs to show improvement' zone.

2 years Glenn. I'm giving him 2 more years to show me something.

Edit: Over/Under

Vanilla Garilla
08-04-2009, 04:35 PM
I am a Dorsey fan, but damn man get your @ss in gear, lose that freaking weight, and get yo saggy @ss on that practice field. My patience is wearing thin with Dorsey lately. This year its put up or shut up in my opinion.