Defensive line

[stevefuller]

I wonder?

I have got to be happy with the new powers that be.
We don't have the personal to do what we are trying.It seems everyone is out of position.

I bring it up every time i post about our d-line. How can you invest as often as we do and still have this agony.

Hope i don't sound to negative.

It's going to take time and i'm thinking it's going to be a long year.

Why?

Dorsey and McGee quick explosive guys for a true 4-3.

Hali/Study/McBride(is he going to make the squad i think he was a 2nd not long ago)

I am sounding negative.

Sorry.

Tyson Jackson for the $$$$.

I 'll get back to you all soon.

I want it now that's all.

Hope we find something in this mix.

Still believe Hali and Dorsey are the keys to the defense.

No...............DT here eh?

Clancy will stay up late this year without a call from anyone!!

I am so happy tonight.

I started to wonder if DT would ever get it.


Praise God.

Our #58.

Is in.

Did'nt mean to sound so negative.

P.S.

The reciever are dropping everything at camp.
Haley's pressure is felt.


GO CHIEFS!!!!

Did anyone cry with Marty?

i did!!!

[honda522]

What?

[DT14PRIEST]

- actually Magee was rated as the 2nd best 3-4 End prospect behind Tyson Jackson and was projected as a late 2nd to early 3rd rd (around where we got him)

- ive only heard good things about studebaker (sp) and hali showing some decent improvement but not necessarily an all star crew by any means

- I think McBride is done (in KC at least). A victim of circumstance

- I think Jackson has his head screwed on straight. He doesnt strike me as the type to take his pay check and fall by the way side. I think he'll pay his dividends and be a staple for years to come

- There is going to be growing pains, that much I'm sure of. I want a solid D now as well but I'll take what we have now and where were going over whatever it was that we were trying last year.

[jmlamerson]

What?

He seems to be trying to write a poem or something.

[stricken721]

He seems to be trying to write a poem or something.

:lol: Lmao.

[Chief Tyler]

Garth, that was a haiku!

[AkChief49]

Garth, that was a haiku!
yah, right, and monkeys might fly out my b***!:lol:

[Chief Tyler]

yah, right, and monkeys might fly out my b***!:lol:

Best movie ever!:drums:

[AkChief49]

Best movie ever!:drums:
game on!!:D....car!

[jb908]

I'll agree with everyone that that post makes no sense and just write what you have to say.
Having that said, i agree with Dorsey and Hali being big parts of this defense. I am from jersey and used to go to a lot of Penn State games and i just can't imagine Tamba not getting to the level he dominated at when he was at Penn State. and every one hates on Dorsey, but he still needs another year or two to develop and get used to the NFL. I've posted on here before that those two will be a force to be reckoned with, but unfortunately a lot of people that participate here don't have the patients.
happy preseason everyone.

[Hayvern]

I'll agree with everyone that that post makes no sense and just write what you have to say.
Having that said, i agree with Dorsey and Hali being big parts of this defense. I am from jersey and used to go to a lot of Penn State games and i just can't imagine Tamba not getting to the level he dominated at when he was at Penn State. and every one hates on Dorsey, but he still needs another year or two to develop and get used to the NFL. I've posted on here before that those two will be a force to be reckoned with, but unfortunately a lot of people that participate here don't have the patients.
happy preseason everyone.

For me it is more about how I want Hali to succeed. I think he is an awesome guy, a head worker and he has a great level head on his shoulders.

Come to think of it, that is probably why he is struggling, he is too nice.

All of our defense has to step up, and particularly these two individuals, we need them to both have phenomenal years and while I was hoping the move to LB would be good for Hali, I am starting to worry a little.

[Chiefster]

For me it is more about how I want Hali to succeed. I think he is an awesome guy, a head worker and he has a great level head on his shoulders.

Come to think of it, that is probably why he is struggling, he is too nice.

All of our defense has to step up, and particularly these two individuals, we need them to both have phenomenal years and while I was hoping the move to LB would be good for Hali, I am starting to worry a little.


I'm sure you meant "...a hard worker". :lol:

[Hayvern]

I'm sure you meant "...a hard worker". :lol:
Yes, I did mean hard worker, but now that I think about it, if he does not have a good season this year, he might want to get used to working the heads.

[pbatrucker]

Like most of us I have to go on what I hear. Dorsey, because of the cap hit won't be traded, but McGee will probably will start ahead of him.
Hali is coming along slowly in transition but Studebaker seems to be doing better. Then there is the fact that Mays is looking good at LB and will see a lot of playing time. Hali could be traded, just a possibility, but it could happen.

[KottkeKU]

i think Tamba still has a shot to be a very good DE on a 4-3 defense...pair him with one or even better, two solid d-lineman and he can be effective getting pressure on the qb...

Dorsey i feel the same way...hes gonna be good, but not for the Chiefs...

I remember when we drafted Dorsey, i "heard" the Saints offered their 1st, and another 1st one year later for the rights to Dorsey (which would have given us the 10th pick that year i think...wherever they grabbed Sedrick Ellis at...)..looking back now, if that was true, we just set back our franchise a couple of years with that move...

i guess its equally herm/carls fault for stinking it up so bad, and piloi/haley's for cleaning house the moment they get here, right when we are in the middle of rebuilding our defensive line...

[jmlamerson]

i guess its equally herm/carls fault for stinking it up so bad, and piloi/haley's for cleaning house the moment they get here, right when we are in the middle of rebuilding our defensive line...

We weren't in the middle of rebuilding anything when Haley/Pioli switched to the 3-4. I know everyone is dying to believe that Tank, Dorsey, McBride, Hali and the rest of Herm's picks were just awesome talents that were miscoached, but in reality they were soft/small players badly suited to be starters in the NFL.

[yashi]

You guys are sipping some serious hatorade. I disliked Herm (as a coach/pseudo-GM) as much as the next guy, but I still believe the 2008 draft was a good one for us, and the experts still agree. The team was poorly coached, and wasn't destined for a great season regardless being comprised mostly of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players. I refuse to cast judgment on any player until I witness their play under a competent head coach, and I always give linemen the benefit of the doubt until they have 2 seasons of play under their belt.

Kent Babb has been raving about how well Dorsey, Albert, Charles, and Hali have been playing the past few days. Hali has a ways to go in coverage, but has looked quick and explosive coming off the edge. Charles is a 70 yard TD waiting to happen, just needs to work on a fumbling problem. And Albert is going to be protecting Cassel's blind side for a long time.

Neither Dorsey nor Hali fit the new scheme whatsoever, so if they do anything remotely positive this season it's a very good sign.

[jmlamerson]

You guys are sipping some serious hatorade. I disliked Herm (as a coach/pseudo-GM) as much as the next guy, but I still believe the 2008 draft was a good one for us, and the experts still agree.

The "experts" (especially Babb) are wrong. They were 100% behind Herm for all three years no matter how idiotic the moves were. The 2008 draft was good for Carr, Flowers, and Albert. The other nine picks were bad ones. I hated the Dorsey pick at the time, and I really hate it now. Morgan was a waste, and Cottam and Charles are inexplicably overrated here for guys who haven't done squat. Richardson's only still on the roster because we can't find a cheaper backup. Haven't the rest of those picks been cut?


The team was poorly coached, and wasn't destined for a great season regardless being comprised mostly of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players. I refuse to cast judgment on any player until I witness their play under a competent head coach, and I always give linemen the benefit of the doubt until they have 2 seasons of play under their belt.

So, are you OK with my saying Tank and McBride were bad picks?


Kent Babb has been raving about how well Dorsey, Albert, Charles, and Hali have been playing the past few days. Hali has a ways to go in coverage, but has looked quick and explosive coming off the edge. Charles is a 70 yard TD waiting to happen, just needs to work on a fumbling problem. And Albert is going to be protecting Cassel's blind side for a long time.

Babb's an idiot. He cheerleaded Herm from 2006-2008 more than any man alive.

Look, I'm not going to pretend I'm unbiased. I don't think Charles, Cottam, and Dorsey will ever be healthy enough to be real NFL starters, and much of the reason behind that is that Herm drafted them (the rest of the reason is that they have injury histories as long as your arm).

[yashi]

The "experts" (especially Babb) are wrong. They were 100% behind Herm for all three years no matter how idiotic the moves were. The 2008 draft was good for Carr, Flowers, and Albert. The other nine picks were bad ones. I hated the Dorsey pick at the time, and I really hate it now. Morgan was a waste, and Cottam and Charles are inexplicably overrated here for guys who haven't done squat. Richardson's only still on the roster because we can't find a cheaper backup. Haven't the rest of those picks been cut?

Of course you really hate the Dorsey pick now. He's a 4-3 DT being forced to play DE in a 3-4. Hindsight is 20/20. Richardson was a 6th round pick. Not every 6th rounder becomes Tom Brady, most of them are out of the league within 2-3 years. Morgan was in fact a bad pick.

Cottam hasn't done squat, you're right about that. Then again neither would 99% of the tight ends in the league sitting on the bench behind the best TE in NFL history all season.


So, are you OK with my saying Tank and McBride were bad picks?
Have I seen them play under a legitimate head coach yet? I was never a fan of McBride, so I'll give you that one, sure.


Look, I'm not going to pretend I'm unbiased. I don't think Charles, Cottam, and Dorsey will ever be healthy enough to be real NFL starters, and much of the reason behind that is that Herm drafted them (the rest of the reason is that they have injury histories as long as your arm).

Charles played through a high ankle sprain last season, didn't miss a single game, was our best pass blocking HB, averaged 5.3 yards per carry, and had a 100 yard game the only time he got double digit carries. Not sure what you want from the guy, but he had a very good rookie year for a backup. Not sure what he did to you, but Charles is the man. You'll see.

You can't judge a certain positions by their rookie seasons, period. Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions, Mario Williams had 4 sacks (and 14 the next season). Scott Pioli himself said Seymour was not very good his rookie year. Even Calvin Johnson was looking like a bust at WR.

[jmlamerson]

Of course you really hate the Dorsey pick now. He's a 4-3 DT being forced to play DE in a 3-4. Hindsight is 20/20. Richardson was a 6th round pick. Not every 6th rounder becomes Tom Brady, most of them are out of the league within 2-3 years. Morgan was in fact a bad pick.

Give me credit. This isn't hindsight. I never said a kind word about the Dorsey pick.

And I wasn't trying to run down Richardson. I agree that he's been exactly what you expect from a 6th rounder. My point is that of the twelve picks, three look good, two are big question marks (Charles and Cottam), three seem wasted (Richardson, Dorsey, and Morgan) and the other four have been cut. How is that a great draft?


Cottam hasn't done squat, you're right about that. Then again neither would 99% of the tight ends in the league sitting on the bench behind the best TE in NFL history all season.

Fair enough. But I'll believe he can be healthy only if see him suit up at least 10 games next season as a starter.


Have I seen them play under a legitimate head coach yet? I was never a fan of McBride, so I'll give you that one, sure.

The legitimate coach excuse only goes so far. And we have the exact same DL coach in 2009 as we did in 2008. When Tank and if Dorsey stinks again, should that be enough of an excuse?


Charles played through a high ankle sprain last season, didn't miss a single game, was our best pass blocking HB, averaged 5.3 yards per carry, and had a 100 yard game the only time he got double digit carries. Not sure what you want from the guy, but he had a very good rookie year for a backup. Not sure what he did to you, but Charles is the man. You'll see.

Charles rushed 67 times and caught 27 passes the entire year. That's about about 5.5 touches per game. That isn't enough for him the be the man. It's barely enough to say he has promise as a 3rd down RB.


You can't judge a certain positions by their rookie seasons, period. Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions, Mario Williams had 4 sacks (and 14 the next season). Scott Pioli himself said Seymour was not very good his rookie year. Even Calvin Johnson was looking like a bust at WR.

One, Calvin Johnson never looked like a bust at WR. Second, Peyton Manning broke all rookie passing records his first season. Third, Williams didn't have the best rookie year, but his DL didn't finish 28th against the run or last in NFL history in sacks. Fourth, Seymour was a starting DT on a SB team's DL. None of these guys hit their highs as rookies, but none even came close to Dorsey's lows.

Sometimes you can tell about a player by his rookie year. You could about Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, and Tim Couch. Abouy Ryan Sims and Junior Siavii. About every overpaid player who obviously doesn't have the heart, skills, or health to be a NFL starter.

[Big Daddy Tek]

Give me credit. This isn't hindsight. I never said a kind word about the Dorsey pick.

And I wasn't trying to run down Richardson. I agree that he's been exactly what you expect from a 6th rounder. My point is that of the twelve picks, three look good, two are big question marks (Charles and Cottam), three seem wasted (Richardson, Dorsey, and Morgan) and the other four have been cut. How is that a great draft?



Fair enough. But I'll believe he can be healthy only if see him suit up at least 10 games next season as a starter.



The legitimate coach excuse only goes so far. And we have the exact same DL coach in 2009 as we did in 2008. When Tank and if Dorsey stinks again, should that be enough of an excuse?



Charles rushed 67 times and caught 27 passes the entire year. That's about about 5.5 touches per game. That isn't enough for him the be the man. It's barely enough to say he has promise as a 3rd down RB.



One, Calvin Johnson never looked like a bust at WR. Second, Peyton Manning broke all rookie passing records his first season. Third, Williams didn't have the best rookie year, but his DL didn't finish 28th against the run or last in NFL history in sacks. Fourth, Seymour was a starting DT on a SB team's DL. None of these guys hit their highs as rookies, but none even came close to Dorsey's lows.

Sometimes you can tell about a player by his rookie year. You could about Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, and Tim Couch. Abouy Ryan Sims and Junior Siavii. About every overpaid player who obviously doesn't have the heart, skills, or health to be a NFL starter.

Comparing Dorsey to Leaf, Couch, Sims and Siavvi is pretty ridiculous. Dorsey has played 1 year.

I dont know what you want Cottam to be either, J. Cottam wasn't drafted to catch 90 balls. He was drafted because he is a big physical TE who can block. He showed the ability to catch last year when he was actually thrown to and he was much more of an impact on offense than you think. He was the real TE alot last year. Tony was playing out of the slot more than on the line. Cottam came up big as an extra blocker.

Cottam should be just what Haley wants. Watch.

[jmlamerson]

Comparing Dorsey to Leaf, Couch, Sims and Siavvi is pretty ridiculous. Dorsey has played 1 year.

My point wasn't that Dorsey was equivalent to those guys. My point was that you can sometimes judge a guy based on his rookie year. Time will obviously tell about Dorsey.


I dont know what you want Cottam to be either, J. Cottam wasn't drafted to catch 90 balls. He was drafted because he is a big physical TE who can block. He showed the ability to catch last year when he was actually thrown to and he was much more of an impact on offense than you think. He was the real TE alot last year. Tony was playing out of the slot more than on the line. Cottam came up big as an extra blocker.

Cottam should be just what Haley wants. Watch.

That's fair. You are mistaken about one thing - Cottam was drafted to be a receiving TE in the mold of Tony G. But my question about Cottam isn't his receiving or blocking value. It's his longevity. I think he has every measurable in the world except the ability to stay healthy. I think he and Brodie Croyle are HOF flag football players, but not in a sport where people get hit.

[jap1]

And I wasn't trying to run down Richardson. I agree that he's been exactly what you expect from a 6th rounder. My point is that of the twelve picks, three look good, two are big question marks (Charles and Cottam), three seem wasted (Richardson, Dorsey, and Morgan) and the other four have been cut. How is that a great draft?

I dont think you can consider a 6th round pick wasted if he fills the role of a serviceable backup. What do you expect of a 6th rounder, to be starting and making the pro bowl every year. Something like only 1/3rd of people picked after the 3rd round are on a roster 3 years out. So to be on the roster as a 6th round pick is at least a draw (if not a win).

Also, to have 3 "good" players out of a draft is generally considered pretty good.

[jmlamerson]

I dont think you can consider a 6th round pick wasted if he fills the role of a serviceable backup. What do you expect of a 6th rounder, to be starting and making the pro bowl every year. Something like only 1/3rd of people picked after the 3rd round are on a roster 3 years out. So to be on the roster as a 6th round pick is at least a draw (if not a win).

Also, to have 3 "good" players out of a draft is generally considered pretty good.

Except Richardson isn't a serviceable backup. Most 6th rounders aren't. He should have been camp fodder. He only has a job for lack of warm bodies.

Three good players out of seven (typical draft) is pretty good (still not great, like people pretend the 2008 draft was). Three out of twelve is much less so. Especially when we lost JA to pick up those draft picks. I'd trade that entire 2008 draft class to have JA back.

[AkChief49]

Except Richardson isn't a serviceable backup. Most 6th rounders aren't. He should have been camp fodder. He only has a job for lack of warm bodies.

Three good players out of seven (typical draft) is pretty good (still not great, like people pretend the 2008 draft was). Three out of twelve is much less so. Especially when we lost JA to pick up those draft picks. I'd trade that entire 2008 draft class to have JA back.
I believe I would too. I admit, I was under the influence of the "best(coyote ugly) draft"(graded A-) we've had in a while. The truth now, after the effects have worn off and I've climbed out of my stupor, is I'm trying to chew my arm off....:D

[AussieChiefsFan]

Who's JA?

[AkChief49]

Who's JA?
Jared Allen, Aussie