PDA

View Full Version : Things should be "Rosy" for Bonds and Vick.



m0ef0e
08-14-2007, 03:42 PM
4,256 hits. A record that will never be touched. A record that stands pure, untainted by allegations of steroid use or haunted by hanus acts of crime. I've never heard anybody say that Pete Rose bet on baseball while he was a player, only when he was a magager. Player or not, betting does not help you hit a baseball. Performance enhancing drugs do not help you make contact either, but they could add a little extra distance on a ball that would normally wind up on the warning track.

If Bonds is found guilty of using performance enhancing drugs and is not banned from baseball, what does this say? Gambling is worse than drug use? The last time I checked, both have rehabilitation programs to help those addicted to such vices. How many people will remember Bonds when A-Rod breaks the home run record in 5 years or so? How many people will remember the guy that holds the record 4,256 hits in 5 years? In 20 years? This is a record that will stand forever. Yet, the holder of this record will never occupy his deserved space in the hall of fame. If Bonds is guilty of performance-enhancing drug use, is this not an equal transgression against the validity of the game? I'm not saying Bonds doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame. I think he does, steroids or not.

However, the fact remains that Bonds may have tarnished the sanctity of the game, knowingly, while in pursuit of a record. Yes, Rose bet on baseball but he did it while he was a manager. He still deserves to be among the game's greats for what he accomplished as a player. If Bonds truly did use performance-enhancing drugs, to let him in the hall of fame while Pete Rose remains ineligible seems nothing short of discrimination.

The NFL is a whole different matter, however. If Vick is found guilty of the hanus allegations against him, the NFL needs to take a stand and ban him from the game for life. To allow these players to beat their wives and kill dogs then come back to continue to make millions while players in other sports are banned for gambling, is pure lunacy. If Goodell wants people to take his new conduct policy seriously, people convicted of especially hanus acts need to be banned from the sport just the same as someone who would gamble on their sport.

Just as Rose stained the trust of baseball, to have somebody on a pro field who is capable of such immorality disfigures and stains the dignity of football. To argue that it's unfair to take away Vick's source of income, is ridiculous. Vick has made millions already. He should have plenty of money to begin another business venture to secure future income for himself. Normal people have to change careers several times during their lifetime. If he is stupid enough to have blown all his money already or if he lacks the neccesarry socail skills to find another occupation and be a productive member of society, the rest of the world is better off with him in jail anyway.

Looking at all this, it is evident that morality and ethics are severely skewed in pro sports. O.J. Simpson is another prime example. Is this really how the world works now? If you make enough money you can enact any fantasies your sickly, spoiled mind can dream up and either get away with it or receive unwarranted breaks on your punishment? It's not good to use drugs, beat your wife, murder people, or torture dogs, but at least you didn't bet on baseball...

If the real world worked like pro sports, we would be letting child-molesters, rapists, and serial killers go with minimum punishment while people would be getting sent to the electric chair for buying a lotto ticket or going to the casino. I'm glad my kids will be able to learn such valuable lessons from the sports world in the future because gambling is so terribly and horribly unforgiveable... Give me a break!

Chiefster
08-14-2007, 04:09 PM
If the real world worked like pro sports, we would be letting child-molesters, rapists, and serial killers go with minimum punishment while people would be getting sent to the electric chair for buying a lotto ticket or going to the casino. I'm glad my kids will be able to learn such valuable lessons from the sports world in the future because gambling is so terribly and horribly unforgiveable... Give me a break!

Wow; just wow!!

I couldn't have said it better. Good article.

AkChief49
08-14-2007, 06:46 PM
mOfOe: that was absolutely, just fantastic!!! you hit the proverbial nail on the head, and sunk it! I always thought that if Charlie Hustle had just come clean at the beginning, he would be in the Hall. He deserves to be there but on the flip side...he lied. To me that is the biggest part to get over. That he bet on baseball bothered me, but not as much as the lie(I do believe him when he said he always bet on his team to win) Now you have Vic (with three co-defendants turning on him) doing the same thing, lying. Bonds, on the steroid issue.....my opinion is he's lying. I totally agree with you!!! what's good for the goose... "Excellent" post mOfoe:bananen_smilies046:

chief31
08-15-2007, 11:27 AM
Performance enhancing drugs do not help you make contact either,


Great post, mOefOe!!! :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

I did want to dispute the above quoted statement though. If you ever taken modern steroids, or been close with someone who has, then you should know about the highly increased intensity that it brings. That gives one a decisive edge to someone trying to see a fast-moving baseball and trying to hit it.

Also, while I totally agree that "Charlie Hustle" should be in the HOF, I think you omitted what Pete was banned for. He didn't just bet. He didn't just bet on baseball, he didn't just bet on his team, to win. There was alot evidence that showed that he also bet against his own team. That would suggest that he may have done things to "throw" games.

Again, I agree that he should be in the HOF, for what he did on the field, as a player. Just thought I'd point out the difference between betting in a casino, versus betting against the team that you control.

m0ef0e
08-15-2007, 12:50 PM
Thanks guys. Yeah, I understand the seriousness of betting on a team you are managing and the possibility that creates to try to throw a game. It's inexcuseable and should never be tolerated lightly. Nobody should ever forget that about Pete Rose. It is more serious than buying a lotto ticket or going to the casino.

However, the poor decisions he made as a manager should not void or shadow his accomplishments as a player.

As far as the roids go, I have never really had any personal experience with them. Fortunately, all my athletic friends in high school were always clean and I've never come close to it, personally. So, some inaccuracies may be associated with my inexperience.

rbedgood
08-15-2007, 05:29 PM
I would expect that Vick will get a plea bargain for a 1 year sentence (approximately). He'll do his time, and likely receive a 1 year suspension from the NFL...frankly he'll be back. However I highly doubt he returns as a Falcon, but someone will sign him, he's too much of an athlete to not get another shot at playing for a team.

Oh and by the way...if you watch various cable news outlets a number of shows have covered case after case of child molesters and real crooks getting off with probation or short sentences. Frankly that is a real crime...I feel bad for the dogs, but society should torture the animals who commit these crimes.

Canada
08-15-2007, 08:17 PM
I would expect that Vick will get a plea bargain for a 1 year sentence (approximately). He'll do his time, and likely receive a 1 year suspension from the NFL...frankly he'll be back. However I highly doubt he returns as a Falcon, but someone will sign him, he's too much of an athlete to not get another shot at playing for a team.

Oh and by the way...if you watch various cable news outlets a number of shows have covered case after case of child molesters and real crooks getting off with probation or short sentences. Frankly that is a real crime...I feel bad for the dogs, but society should torture the animals who commit these crimes.

How would you guys feel if he came to KC?? :toast2:

m0ef0e
08-15-2007, 08:36 PM
I would expect that Vick will get a plea bargain for a 1 year sentence (approximately). He'll do his time, and likely receive a 1 year suspension from the NFL...frankly he'll be back. However I highly doubt he returns as a Falcon, but someone will sign him, he's too much of an athlete to not get another shot at playing for a team.

Oh and by the way...if you watch various cable news outlets a number of shows have covered case after case of child molesters and real crooks getting off with probation or short sentences. Frankly that is a real crime...I feel bad for the dogs, but society should torture the animals who commit these crimes.

I have had first-hand experience with the legal system's lenient standpoint against molesters and rapists. I won't go into any more detail than that on this matter because I try not to see myself as a victim. Instead, I see it as something that made me stronger as a person and also prepared me for future hardships in life. Unfortunately, this is a very prevalent problem in today's society. However, I didn't feel it was something proper for a sports forum.

I totally agree that people who chose to wallow in sewage deserve to stay there and eat it. Many atrocities occur in the legal system on a daily basis, involving people that are not celebrities. However, Michael Vick now stands in the national spotlight (as a person instead of an athlete) and needs to be made an example of. If he gets only a few months in some cushy white-collar jail and comes back to play football, it will only confirm some of my darker suspicions about this government, society, and the future of the human race as a whole.

BTW, I would picket outside of Arrowhead if he signed with the Chiefs. Michael Vick needs to spend some time in the real world (federal "pound-me-in-the-***" prison) in order to get some perspective on life. Regardless if they are dogs or people, this is an especially hanus crime worthy of punishment to the fullest extent of the law. No matter who the defendant may be.

Chiefster
08-16-2007, 12:57 AM
How would you guys feel if he came to KC?? :toast2:


I would NOT like to see that happen; I wouldn't stop being a Chiefs fan, but I don't think I could cheer for the guy.

Chiefster
08-16-2007, 01:01 AM
...Michael Vick needs to spend some time in the real world (federal "pound-me-in-the-***" prison) in order to get some perspective on life. Regardless if they are dogs or people, this is an especially hanus crime worthy of punishment to the fullest extent of the law. No matter who the defendant may be.

I feel exactly the same way, and you communicated very well; much better then I could have.

chief31
08-16-2007, 10:12 AM
Thanks guys. Yeah, I understand the seriousness of betting on a team you are managing and the possibility that creates to try to throw a game. It's inexcuseable and should never be tolerated lightly. Nobody should ever forget that about Pete Rose. It is more serious than buying a lotto ticket or going to the casino.

However, the poor decisions he made as a manager should not void or shadow his accomplishments as a player.

As far as the roids go, I have never really had any personal experience with them. Fortunately, all my athletic friends in high school were always clean and I've never come close to it, personally. So, some inaccuracies may be associated with my inexperience.

It has become an extremely common misconception. Because so few people want to admit to having done it, or even known of someone doing it. Therefore, noone argues when one says that it doesn't help someone hit a ball.

chief31
08-16-2007, 10:16 AM
I would expect that Vick will get a plea bargain for a 1 year sentence (approximately). He'll do his time, and likely receive a 1 year suspension from the NFL...frankly he'll be back. However I highly doubt he returns as a Falcon, but someone will sign him, he's too much of an athlete to not get another shot at playing for a team.

Oh and by the way...if you watch various cable news outlets a number of shows have covered case after case of child molesters and real crooks getting off with probation or short sentences. Frankly that is a real crime...I feel bad for the dogs, but society should torture the animals who commit these crimes.

Guys, prepare for the worst. I believe that Vick is going to wind-up with no time behind bars. I think he plea-bargain to a probation and fines. However, the NFL may take a stronger stance against him. Besides, he would be honored as a hero in our prisons.


How would you guys feel if he came to KC?? :toast2:

Ill.

m0ef0e
08-16-2007, 12:17 PM
Yeah, even if he did go to jail, I'm sure he would have a nice cell with cable TV and all the inmates would want prison tats of his autograph. No matter what happens, Michael Vick will never know what it's like for the poor man who lands himself in jail.

chief31
08-16-2007, 12:26 PM
Yeah, even if he did go to jail, I'm sure he would have a nice cell with cable TV and all the inmates would want prison tats of his autograph. No matter what happens, Michael Vick will never know what it's like for the poor man who lands himself in jail.


I wouldn't say that. Depending upon how well he managed his money, considering the fact that his NFL career could be over, he could wind-up turning to a life of crime, on down the road.

Sweets
08-16-2007, 12:31 PM
I believe that Vick will do serious prison time esp. now that all his so called "homies" are turning against him and there is another set of indictment papers being served to him on other chargers. Even his lawyers are bracing for prison time. Vick has been doing this since 8 months AFTER he joined the NFL, I don't feel sorry for him in the least, he's not an uneducated man and both him and his loser brother are thugs.

m0ef0e
08-16-2007, 12:33 PM
I wouldn't say that. Depending upon how well he managed his money, considering the fact that his NFL career could be over, he could wind-up turning to a life of crime, on down the road.


I think that all depends on if the NFL chooses to ban him from the game if Vick plea bargains or is convicted. If they suspend him for a season or two, who knows? If he hasn't managed his money well, he may very well get into more trouble before he is eligible to come back. But, if the NFL bans him, I think this would be more probable.

Instead of jail, they should just tie a bunch of steaks all over his body and throw him into a pit with a handful of hungry pit-bulls.

chief31
08-16-2007, 12:36 PM
I believe that Vick will do serious prison time esp. now that all his so called "homies" are turning against him and there is another set of indictment papers being served to him on other chargers. Even his lawyers are bracing for prison time. Vick has been doing this since 8 months AFTER he joined the NFL, I don't feel sorry for him in the least, he's not an uneducated man and both him and his loser brother are thugs.

True, but he is currently working on a plea-bargain that would likely net him a very light punishment. Probably less than a year of time, maybe none. If there should be an added indictment, then yes, he will almost certainly be serving some time. There is also the possibilty of some local and state charges being brought against him.

Sweets
08-16-2007, 12:39 PM
With everyone else says he funded the whole thing, I can't see him doing NO jail time. The prosecutors dealing for less then a year for all this crap is just bogus.

chief31
08-16-2007, 12:43 PM
With everyone else says he funded the whole thing, I can't see him doing NO jail time.

His celebrity status may play against him. An unknown would likely plea-bargain, as a first time offender, to a long probation and hefty fine. But, the court may feel obligated to make an example of him. (For Sweets' sake.) :D

m0ef0e
08-16-2007, 12:46 PM
I think he will go to jail... and watch the NFL Sunday Ticket in his cell decorated in velvet and hardwood while sipping martinis and smoking cubans. Hell, if he's got enought money left, he may even get one of the guards to bring his water bottle in to him.

Seriously though, I really do hope that he HAS been an idiot and blew all his money so he will actually learn something from all of this.

Canada
08-16-2007, 12:48 PM
His celebrity status may play against him. An unknown would likely plea-bargain, as a first time offender, to a long probation and hefty fine. But, the court may feel obligated to make an example of him. (For Sweets' sake.) :D

Yeah...just like OJ...oh wait. The celebrity status will NOT hurt Vick or any other rich man on trial for something. It is a joke and I personally stopped giving a sh*t about any of this stuff the day OJ walked on murder. It's a different set of rules for rich folks. Get used to it!!

chief31
08-16-2007, 12:53 PM
The fact is that it is difficult to appropriately punish the rich. Fine him, he pays it out of pocket. Fine me, I spend years paying it. Sentence him to years and he comes out to his beloved millions. Sentence me to years and I come out to be a homeless, jobless, womanless nothing, with no car.

I'm just sayin'. :D

m0ef0e
08-16-2007, 12:54 PM
It will be funny to compare the scentence of Tim Donagey to that of Michael Vick. I'd be willing to bet that the ref's punishment will be about twice as much.

m0ef0e
08-16-2007, 12:58 PM
The fact is that it is difficult to appropriately punish the rich. Fine him, he pays it out of pocket. Fine me, I spend years paying it. Sentence him to years and he comes out to his beloved millions. Sentence me to years and I come out to be a homeless, jobless, womanless nothing, with no car.

I'm just sayin'. :D

Actually most of the punishment for the rich comes from civil suits. The Goldsmith family has been doing everything they can for a decade to seize all of OJ's assets and they have been succesful by and large. The only problem in Vick's case is dogs cant sue. Maybe PETA or some organization like that could and then use the money to increase awareness about dogfighting and animal abuse.

Chiefster
08-16-2007, 01:56 PM
Actually most of the punishment for the rich comes from civil suits. The Goldsmith family has been doing everything they can for a decade to seize all of OJ's assets and they have been succesful by and large. The only problem in Vick's case is dogs cant sue. Maybe PETA or some organization like that could and then use the money to increase awareness about dogfighting and animal abuse.


It ticks me off that I actually agree with PETA on something. I need to shower now.

hermhater
01-14-2008, 04:04 AM
Yeah...just like OJ...oh wait. The celebrity status will NOT hurt Vick or any other rich man on trial for something. It is a joke and I personally stopped giving a sh*t about any of this stuff the day OJ walked on murder. It's a different set of rules for rich folks. Get used to it!!


I am gonna punch you in the balls!

:11:

Canada
01-14-2008, 07:12 PM
I am gonna punch you in the balls!

:11:

Get up on a chair and say that to my face!! :bananen_smilies046:

rbedgood
01-17-2008, 05:27 AM
Get up on a chair and say that to my face!! :bananen_smilies046:

He'd need a ladder to get onto a chair that tall...

hermhater
01-17-2008, 04:48 PM
He'd need a ladder to get onto a chair that tall...

Hah!

:lol: