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LJsAllDay
09-05-2009, 06:58 PM
Released...
CB Jackie Bates
TE Tom Crabree
DE Dion Gales
DE Bobby Greenwood
G Darryl Harris
WR Taurus Johnson
WR Ashley Lelie
DT Derek Lokey
S Bernard Pollard
S Ricky Price
LB Zach Thomas
RB Javarris Williams
WR Rodney Wright
Placed on IR...
G Colin Brown

texaschief
09-05-2009, 06:58 PM
POLLARD?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!! :iamwithstupid:

texaschief
09-05-2009, 07:00 PM
Lelie couldn't make THIS group of WRs?!!


Why the hell couldn't Colin Brown make this OL either?!!!



I'm BEYOND pissed at this point!!!

yashi
09-05-2009, 07:02 PM
Lelie couldn't make THIS group of WRs?!!


Why the hell couldn't Colin Brown make this OL either?!!!



I'm BEYOND pissed at this point!!!

It says he was placed on IR.

No source is listed. While most of these are obvious, I'll be absolutely shocked if Pollard was cut.

This was also the OP's first post, so I don't really believe it.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 07:02 PM
SERIOUSLY!!!!! We keep FOUR EFFING QBS... BUT POLLARD HAD TO GO.... ?????????????


:mob:

texaschief
09-05-2009, 07:03 PM
It says he was placed on IR.

No source is listed. While most of these are obvious, I'll be absolutely shocked if Pollard was cut.

He was placed on IR so they wouldn't lose face for drafting him so damn early. He's gonna be cut when there's less attention.

jb908
09-05-2009, 07:04 PM
wow i am absolutely shocked by pollard. bad move if you ask me. there goes depth if anything. agreed with the four qb's comment too. no need for all of them

yashi
09-05-2009, 07:06 PM
This would be the first huge blunder by the new regime. Gutierrez could have cleared waivers and be placed on the practice squad. If Pollard is cut he's going to be grabbed immediately.

YZILLA
09-05-2009, 07:06 PM
have Faith , There is alot more to come now that we will know who got released elsewhere. We will be doing some moves , im sure of it ! just the beginning ! Im really , really pissed that Lelie didnt make the cut , he was lights out all preseason ! F**k

yashi
09-05-2009, 07:07 PM
POLLARD WAS INDEED CUT.

Arrowhead Pride - An Unofficial Kansas City Chiefs blog (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/)

What the **** is going on? How many safeties in the NFL have 4 years of starting experience and are only 24?

texaschief
09-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Mike Brown can't stay healthy and has proven it. So, basically, with these moves, we don't have a starting RT or a dependable SS going into week one.

This is such ****. You'd think you would at least have some one who could step in at either of those positions BEFORE you released all the previous starters. STUPID STUPID STUPID.

chiefan
09-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Pollard? ****!

yashi
09-05-2009, 07:12 PM
Seriously, I'm completely confused. Morgan has 1 good preseason game, and somehow it erases every other game he's ever played where he was always completely terrible? How the hell do we keep him over Pollard?

DT14PRIEST
09-05-2009, 07:13 PM
Everybody Abandon Ship!!!

texaschief
09-05-2009, 07:13 PM
Pioli/Haley: "Terrance Copper > Bernard Pollard"

GFY!!

yashi
09-05-2009, 07:16 PM
Pierre Walters > Bernard Pollard?!?!?!?

texaschief
09-05-2009, 07:21 PM
This is EXACTLY this **** i was worried about with Haley and altercations with his players. Instead of trying to work out whatever the issue is, his solution is to CUT the player... despite his obvious talents.

Sn@keIze
09-05-2009, 07:23 PM
I am pissed. **** Haley and Pioli.

Pollard will start for another team and lets see if he or our SS will be more successful.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 07:24 PM
Any guess how long Pollard stays on the market? I bet he ends up in Detroit even though they just got a new safety.

matthewschiefs
09-05-2009, 07:26 PM
Pollard and Leliee have me scratching my head i will wait and see what they do before i get upset lol

yashi
09-05-2009, 07:29 PM
Pollard is the starting SS for another team in the next 24 hours.

matthewschiefs
09-05-2009, 07:31 PM
Pollard is the starting SS for another team in the next 24 hours.

I agree 100% this might be a move that bites the chiefs with mike browns injury history. come to think of it the way mcgraw has played maybe they are thinking he will be a good fit when and if brown gets hurt.

McLovin
09-05-2009, 07:35 PM
Think the Pollard cut has anything to do with Tom Brady's knee last year. Just playing devils advocate.

captainamerica
09-05-2009, 07:45 PM
Bernard Pollard and Ashley Lelie??? We could've at least got a draft pick for Pollard. I don't understand why you'd release him. He's young, has lots of starting experience and is a good player. I also don't understand releasing Lelie. Lelie played very well in the preseason and has good speed.

matthewschiefs
09-05-2009, 07:46 PM
Think the Pollard cut has anything to do with Tom Brady's knee last year. Just playing devils advocate.

While we are playing devils advocate No Qbs got cut so the chiefs have 4 maybe the big 3 way trade could be in the works. (I NO IT WONT HAPPEN) just wishing for it.

northwest
09-05-2009, 07:50 PM
i never really cared for pollard. he will definitely not clear waivers, but i don't really think this hurt our defense.

KCraised
09-05-2009, 07:51 PM
These are the 2 players that i can't get
my head around, too Maybe Lelie was to make room for Boldin;)

hometeam
09-05-2009, 07:53 PM
cutting pollard was stupid as ****. What the **** OVER!

my faith in haley/pioli has just waned immensely, pollard was going to be PERFECT in this defense and when Mike brown gets hurt in week 1 (or whatever, you know what i mean) we gonna be crying becuase we DONT HAVE A SS

AkChief49
09-05-2009, 07:53 PM
maybe he(Pollard) was put out there for waiver wire bait. knowing the Lions would pounce on him and sending free whomever they are looking at?

captainamerica
09-05-2009, 07:54 PM
maybe he(Pollard) was put out there for waiver wire bait. knowing the Lions would pounce on him and sending free whomever they are looking at?
I think Pollard is a lot better of a player than the guy that the Lions would consider the weakest player on their team.

northwest
09-05-2009, 07:54 PM
they certainly have some kind of plan for SS. certainly.

AkChief49
09-05-2009, 07:56 PM
I think Pollard is a lot better of a player than the guy that the Lions would consider the weakest player on their team.
not what i meant

texaschief
09-05-2009, 07:57 PM
I think Pollard is a lot better of a player than the guy that the Lions would consider the weakest player on their team.

I just cant grasp ANY reasoning for cutting the leading tackler on this team. Ridiculous

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 08:02 PM
Everybody just simma down now! I am upset by the loss of Pollard too, but I think Pioli is a great personnel guy, and has something figured out. McGraw showed alot of promise this preseason too.

hometeam
09-05-2009, 08:04 PM
yea mcgraw who couldnt make a tackle on special teams last year, i would really have him over pollard, a beast of a tackler and an emotional leader on the D.

great choice.

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 08:06 PM
yea mcgraw who couldnt make a tackle on special teams last year, i would really have him over pollard, a beast of a tackler and an emotional leader on the D.

great choice.

Wrong. Mike Brown will be starting now, McGraw will be the second stringer.

McLovin
09-05-2009, 08:06 PM
I am guessing it is due to buy in, lack of interest in the trade market and system.

This also is another way for this GM/HC combo to show that no one is safe. Our way or the highway kinda thing. I did have an interesting read though that Pollard about took out Cassel the same way he took out Brady last year ...

Bernard Pollard almost crippled Matt Cassel, too - Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Bernard-Pollard-almost-crippled-Matt-Cassel-too?urn=nfl,181929)


Quoted


[...] Pollard thought he was going to be blocked by a running back last year against New England, got low to take on the block, wasn't blocked, and fell into Brady. Now, he thought he was going to be blocked by a running back, got low, wasn't blocked, and stumbled and tried to avoid hitting Cassel, yelling at the last moment, "Move!" It was too late. He fell hard and rolled into Cassel's left leg.
[...]
I caught Pollard after lunch on campus. His eyes got wide when I asked him about the play. "I got to the sidelines after that play," Pollard said, "and I realized what happened, and I thought, -- OH MY GOD! It's like a replay.''
end Quote

Wonder if that and penalities had something to do with it. Still puzzling.

chiefan
09-05-2009, 08:06 PM
Pioli Haley: Colclough > Pollard.

WHAT THE ****!!!! IF HE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH PUT HIM AT BACKUP!!! ****!!!!!!

chiefan
09-05-2009, 08:13 PM
Everybody just simma down now!

NO!!!!

texaschief
09-05-2009, 08:15 PM
Can Page play SS? Could Morgan or Washington step in at FS?

hometeam
09-05-2009, 08:16 PM
Wrong. Mike Brown will be starting now, McGraw will be the second stringer.


And thats better thna Pollard starting and Mike Brown being backup?

Or even vice versa?

lol no. :inwc:

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 08:25 PM
And thats better thna Pollard starting and Mike Brown being backup?

Or even vice versa?

lol no. :inwc:

I said i would have liked to keep Pollard, but management chose him to cut for reasons unbeknown to us, so just accept it.

You guys are acting like we are freaking doomed without Pollard, lmao. How many game changing plays has he made for us?

Either way, he is gonna be a great pickup for some team.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 08:32 PM
If they cut Pollard to start Brown, this will be a HORRIBLE decision!!! (As if it wasn't already)

Brown hasn't played a full season since 2003!! Last year was his closest year when he played 15 games and the 31 year old didn't even come CLOSE to matching the 24 year old Pollard's numbers!


Did we REALLY need a new GM to come in and continue to f@#$ things up? At least when CP/Herm traded/released Pro Bowl caliber players, they got something in return. Pioli has now traded or released Gonzalez and Pollard and only has a LATE 2010 2nd round pick to show for the 10 time Pro Bowler and a former 2nd round pick in Pollard.

Just straight up stupid.

josh1971
09-05-2009, 08:40 PM
This Pollard worship is funny. You're ready to ditch the team, the GM, the coach, and every other SS for one dude because he led us in tackles last season.

Thigpen led us in passing last season, and everyone's pretty much put a bullet in the back of his head.

hometeam
09-05-2009, 08:40 PM
If they cut Pollard to start Brown, this will be a HORRIBLE decision!!! (As if it wasn't already)

Brown hasn't played a full season since 2003!! Last year was his closest year when he played 15 games and the 31 year old didn't even come CLOSE to matching the 24 year old Pollard's numbers!


Did we REALLY need a new GM to come in and continue to f@#$ things up? At least when CP/Herm traded/released Pro Bowl caliber players, they got something in return. Pioli has now traded or released Gonzalez and Pollard and only has a LATE 2010 2nd round pick to show for the 10 time Pro Bowler and a former 2nd round pick in Pollard.

Just straight up stupid.


I completely agree.. I just cant understand this decision.. name someone available at SS that is better than Pollard, including every member of the KC chiefs.

Oh, none.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 08:40 PM
I said i would have liked to keep Pollard, but management chose him to cut for reasons unbeknown to us, so just accept it.

You guys are acting like we are freaking doomed without Pollard, lmao. How many game changing plays has he made for us?

Either way, he is gonna be a great pickup for some team.

Seriously, people pretending that Pollard was a great SS haven't been watching much Chiefs football. He has potential but he's terrible in coverage, has poor instincts, and has an attitude problem. He can hit and tackle with the best, but they want a guy who can do more than that.

And the fact that he was a 2nd round pick means nothing. Herm Edwards picked a lot of guys high who turned out to be terrible. Pollard will be a good backup for a 4-3 team this season, no more, no less.

Pioli wants a SS that's great in coverage and has a great attitude. We'll start Mike Brown and pick up a guy off waivers.

hometeam
09-05-2009, 08:41 PM
This Pollard worship is funny. You're ready to ditch the team, the GM, the coach, and every other SS for one dude because he led us in tackles last season.

Thigpen led us in passing last season, and everyone's pretty much put a bullet in the back of his head.


Hi, we didnt HAVE to cut him. We kept many other players that will do MUCH LESS for our team than him.

its senseless.

McLovin
09-05-2009, 08:41 PM
Scout.com: The Pollard Problem (http://kan.scout.com/2/894655.html)

Itís ironic that Chiefsí safety Jarrad Page was recently demoted to the second-team defense. Based on Saturdayís game against Seattle, Pageís secondary teammate, Bernard Pollard, might be worthy of such a demotion.

Pollard didnít make any particularly outstanding plays against the Seahawks. There were no massive hits or interceptions. But he definitely didnít disappear from the game. He had five tackles.

The only problem? Pollard should have had 10.

Thatís right. In just over two quarters of play, Bernard Pollard (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307543) missed five tackles. And these werenít gallant, last-ditch, diving attempts at a player running full speed, zipping just out of mortal reach. No, Pollard had five football players dead to rights, almost directly in front of him. Each time, they slipped past as if he was a fan who had just walked out of the stands and put on a pair of shoulder pads and a helmet.

It started with about 11 minutes left in the first quarter on a kickoff return. Seattleís Devin Moore (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4325846) encountered Pollard up the right sideline and, as the safety went low, skipped over his tackle attempt, stayed on his feet with some help from a teammate and gained six more yards.

A few minutes later the Seahawks faced 2nd-and-10 from their own 36. After Matt Hasselbeck (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4325362) sliced a pass through Kansas Cityís zone to Nate Burleson (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4325341), Pollard had an opportunity to blast him as he stumbled after making the catch. Instead, he weakly stuck out one arm. Burleson shrugged it off and gained another nine yards as Pollard slid to the ground.

After a quarter had passed, Seattle found itself in a third-down situation. On a busted play, Hasselbeck ad-libbed a pass to TJ Houshmandzadeh, who easily picked up the first down, but he wasnít done. As Pollard drifted over to bring the receiver down, Houshmandzadeh made the slightest of cuts, but it was more than enough to send Pollard crashing to the ground. He stuck out an arm in a last-ditch effort to make a tackle, and could only watch as Houshmandzadeh gained 10 more yards.

Then, just before halftime, the Seahawks handed the ball to Julius Jones (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4325369), who burst through a big hole off the right side. Pollard flew up from his safety position and was all squared up, ready to make the tackle. But instead of bringing down the ball carrier, he just fell to his knees and grasped at air as Jones stopped on a dime, sidestepped and continued up the field, picking up five more yards.

Finally, Seattle exploited Pollard one last time. About five minutes into the third quarter, Hasselbeck hit John Carlson (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4325343) over the middle for a big gain. The tight end caught the ball at the 12-yard line, turned up the field and ran right through Pollard like he was made of paper. Pollard grabbed at his jersey, slid off and hit the grass as the Seahawks took the lead on a 28-yard touchdown pass.

That was five missed tackles, about 40 extra yards gained by the Seahawks, and one touchdown. Five missed tackles in seven possessions, and not a single big play to make up for any of it. Five missed tackles that could have been turned into a big hit, a forced fumble or something to prevent Seattleís offense from marching up and down the field all night, gaining 278 yards in just over two quarters.

After that, Pollard left the game. A young safety the Chiefs drafted in the third round a year ago, DaJuan Morgan (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4307540), entered. He may have missed a tackle in the fourth quarter Ė it was difficult to tell from the replay. Morgan, like Pollard, also made five tackles. Unlike Pollard, Morgan did not appear to be a huge liability when he got a chance to bring down the ball carrier.

Thatís not to say Morgan should replace Pollard in the starting lineup Thursday against the St. Louis Rams. Heck, maybe Pollard will destroy every ball carrier in his path and make up for his poor game against the Seahawks.

But this is now Pollardís fourth NFL season. The game against Seattle was not an aberration - he has always had problems being a consistent tackler. A year ago, according to Football Outsiders, he was the Chiefsí lowest-ranked starter in stop rate against the run. He had just six defeats (defined as a play which prevents the offense from gaining a first down on third or fourth down, stops the offense behind the line of scrimmage, or results in a fumble or interception). Only Jon McGraw (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=4224701), a backup, was inferior in these categories among the members of Kansas Cityís secondary.

But you donít need a bunch of fancy statistics to tell you this stuff. All you have to do is watch the games. Pollard keeps missing tackles. Until someone starts making those tackles, the Chiefs will probably continue to struggle to stop other teams.

Hayvern
09-05-2009, 08:43 PM
Man, I think we have the names backwards. Pollard was released and Page was the first to get a sticker? Pollard was the best defensive player we had last year.

OK, seriously, I think Haley has his head up his ***. Maybe he is seeing something that I am not, but seriously what is this guy thinking. I knew I was going to have some questions about him. Now I have a lot of questions. I am almost starting to think that Herm was smart compared to this guy.

ALMOST

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 08:44 PM
Seriously, people pretending that Pollard was a great SS haven't been watching much Chiefs football. He has potential but he's terrible in coverage, has poor instincts, and has an attitude problem. He can hit and tackle with the best, but they want a guy who can do more than that.

And the fact that he was a 2nd round pick means nothing. Herm Edwards picked a lot of guys high who turned out to be terrible. Pollard will be a good backup for a 4-3 team this season, no more, no less.

Pioli wants a SS that's great in coverage and has a great attitude. We'll start Mike Brown and pick up a guy off waivers.

Completely agree!


This Pollard worship is funny. You're ready to ditch the team, the GM, the coach, and every other SS for one dude because he led us in tackles last season.

Thigpen led us in passing last season, and everyone's pretty much put a bullet in the back of his head.

I also agree, everyone here is now bashing our new GM, our new Coach, and haven't even given them a full season to see what they can do.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 08:50 PM
Seriously, people pretending that Pollard was a great SS haven't been watching much Chiefs football. He has potential but he's terrible in coverage, has poor instincts, and has an attitude problem. He can hit and tackle with the best, but they want a guy who can do more than that.

And the fact that he was a 2nd round pick means nothing. Herm Edwards picked a lot of guys high who turned out to be terrible. Pollard will be a good backup for a 4-3 team this season, no more, no less.

Pioli wants a SS that's great in coverage and has a great attitude. We'll start Mike Brown and pick up a guy off waivers.

So, instead of coaching a young player, the solution is to cut him? A "poor attitude" is a cop out. Randy Moss had a "poor attitude" when Pioli brought him in. Boldin had a "poor attitude" and Haley still wants him. Quinten Lawrence was known to have a "poor attitude" at McNeese, but they still drafted him.

It's not that I think he's the best SS in the league. But he's a HELL OF A LOT BETTER than some of the jackasses who still have a roster spot. THAT'S the problem with this move. Can you REALLY justify keeping 4 QBs, Terrence Copper, or Ricardo Colclough over Pollard? Seriously?

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 08:52 PM
I also agree, everyone here is now bashing our new GM, our new Coach, and haven't even given them a full season to see what they can do.

People haven't even given them a regular season game. I don't know if posters on this thread are comprised of Herm Edwards and his immediate family, but this love of 2008 roster is insane. We were terrible against the run and against the pass, but people are defending the terrible players that were on the field. If we replaced all 22 starters from 2008, offense and defense, I'd miss a lot of them. But to a man, they earned it.

Do I think Pollard is a decent player? Yes. He is one of the few defensible Herm Edwards picks. But he isn't a player that fits our team anymore. How hard is this to understand?

yashi
09-05-2009, 08:52 PM
Seriously, people pretending that Pollard was a great SS haven't been watching much Chiefs football. He has potential but he's terrible in coverage, has poor instincts, and has an attitude problem. He can hit and tackle with the best, but they want a guy who can do more than that.

And the fact that he was a 2nd round pick means nothing. Herm Edwards picked a lot of guys high who turned out to be terrible. Pollard will be a good backup for a 4-3 team this season, no more, no less.

Pioli wants a SS that's great in coverage and has a great attitude. We'll start Mike Brown and pick up a guy off waivers.

You change your opinion a lot. A few weeks ago you said Pollard was going to have a breakout season in the 3-4 and Page should be cut, and suddenly he's a backup quality safety. Enough with the Pioli love fest man. I've yet to see anyone else say this was a good move.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 08:58 PM
So, instead of coaching a young player, the solution is to cut him? A "poor attitude" is a cop out. Randy Moss had a "poor attitude" when Pioli brought him in. Boldin had a "poor attitude" and Haley still wants him. Quinten Lawrence was known to have a "poor attitude" at McNeese, but they still drafted him.

It's not that I think he's the best SS in the league. But he's a HELL OF A LOT BETTER than some of the jackasses who still have a roster spot. THAT'S the problem with this move. Can you REALLY justify keeping 4 QBs, Terrence Copper, or Ricardo Colclough over Pollard? Seriously?

This is where you and I fundamentally differ. You think a player can be coached to whatever level you want him. This is what Herm thought, and why he loaded the team with low draft picks and undrafted guys. I don't think that. I think four years in the NFL is enough of a tryout to determine a player's potential in your scheme. And don't focus on "attitude." Pollard was cut more for his lack of skills than for his attitude. His bad attitude just didn't help.

Pollard can be a good backup SS for a lot of teams. But not this one.

Copper is easy to justify. He's a fast WR with good hands and a special teams gunner. I'd have been pissed if we cut him.

As for 4 QBs, I expect us to trade Thigpen any day now.

Ricardo Coclough (like Leggett) has value at CB or S, which gives him extra value.

As for our new SS, I expect that Brown will start with Morgan as his backup, and McGraw behind him.

josh1971
09-05-2009, 08:58 PM
But again- if you think we're done fixing the team, you're not paying attention. I doubt we'll be done upgrading and rebuilding for at least another year. They saw something in Pollard they didn't like in the front office.

This is bordering on the worship that the worthless Boomer Grigsby got in KC (Though admittedly, Pollard is vastly more talented than ole worthless was). Seriously, except for leading us in tackles last year (a year, I must add, that we were 2-14), what has Pollard done that has brought about such faithful devotion? I want someone better at coverage than he is. I want the linebackers to be leading the team in tackles, not the secondary.

There's definitely guys on the roster I would have cut first, and heck, I may not have even cut Pollard, but I don't run the team :D I mean... Barry Richardson is still wearing an arrowhead. Huh?

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 08:58 PM
Can you REALLY justify keeping 4 QBs, Terrence Copper, or Ricardo Colclough over Pollard? Seriously?

Yes we can justify keeping 4 Qb's when one is injured, the other gets injured constantly, Thiggy is an interception machine, and Guitierrez is inconsistent as can be.

I would actually like Garcia to be brought in, and kick Thiggy to the curb.

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 09:00 PM
[quote=jmlamerson;152543this love of 2008 roster is insane. We were terrible against the run and against the pass, but people are defending the terrible players that were on the field.[/quote]

Completely agree, i think King Carl has rubbed off on some of you people.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 09:00 PM
You change your opinion a lot. A few weeks ago you said Pollard was going to have a breakout season in the 3-4 and Page should be cut, and suddenly he's a backup quality safety. Enough with the Pioli love fest man. I've yet to see anyone else say this was a good move.

Sure I said that. It was prior to seeing him in the preseason games, but I said it. And I haven't said anything but that Pollard has good skills but isn't a fit for our new defense. I thought a real coach could get Pollard playing coverage at a starting level. I was wrong.

And I still have yet to say a kind word about Page. I'll believe he can be a legitimate starting FS when I see it.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 09:01 PM
This is quite simply the worst move I've seen this franchise make in a long time. Again, not because he's such a stud, but because he has tremendous upside, he's young, and LOVES to hit. It just rubs me wrong that the head coach/GM would rather cut a player with that kind of talent than attempt to COACH him like they SHOULD be doing.

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 09:02 PM
This is quite simply the worst move I've seen this franchise make in a long time.

No my friend, Jared Allen takes the cake in that category.

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 09:06 PM
Everybody just simma down now! I am upset by the loss of Pollard too, but I think Pioli is a great personnel guy, and has something figured out. McGraw showed alot of promise this preseason too.


NO!!!!

Wow Chiefan, you really gave me negative rep for that post???

WOW!!!:iamwithstupid:

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 09:07 PM
This is quite simply the worst move I've seen this franchise make in a long time. Again, not because he's such a stud, but because he has tremendous upside, he's young, and LOVES to hit. It just rubs me wrong that the head coach/GM would rather cut a player with that kind of talent than attempt to COACH him like they SHOULD be doing.

Really? Cutting Pollard is worse than:

1. Hiring Herm Edwards
2. Instituting the Cover 2
3. Sticking with the Brodie Croyle Experiment
4. Trading Jared Allen
5. Cutting Napo because he called Herm out
6. Running LJ 416 times in a season
7. Giving LJ, Donnie Edwards, and MacIntosh massive contracts
8. Starting Adrian Jones at RG in 2008
9. Any of the other idiotic moves we made from 2006-2008

And believe it or not, you can't coach everything. They tried and Pollard couldn't manage to be decent in coverage. It's a shame but it's the way it goes.

yashi
09-05-2009, 09:07 PM
No my friend, Jared Allen takes the cake in that category.

At least Jared Allen landed us a franchise left tackle. Cutting Pollard doesn't do anything positive quite frankly.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 09:08 PM
At least Jared Allen landed us a franchise left tackle. Cutting Pollard doesn't do anything positive quite frankly.

What positive comes from keeping Pollard? If he can't handle the job and the scheme, then what good comes from keeping him?

texaschief
09-05-2009, 09:16 PM
This is where you and I fundamentally differ. You think a player can be coached to whatever level you want him. This is what Herm thought, and why he loaded the team with low draft picks and undrafted guys. I don't think that. I think four years in the NFL is enough of a tryout to determine a player's potential in your scheme. And don't focus on "attitude." Pollard was cut more for his lack of skills than for his attitude. His bad attitude just didn't help.

Pollard can be a good backup SS for a lot of teams. But not this one.

Copper is easy to justify. He's a fast WR with good hands and a special teams gunner. I'd have been pissed if we cut him.

As for 4 QBs, I expect us to trade Thigpen any day now.

Ricardo Coclough (like Leggett) has value at CB or S, which gives him extra value.

As for our new SS, I expect that Brown will start with Morgan as his backup, and McGraw behind him.

If you can coach a DT/DE like McBride to step back and play OLB in the 3-4, there's no reason you can't coach Pollard to play the SS position the way you WANT him to play. Saying you can't coach a player is ridiculous.


Yes we can justify keeping 4 Qb's when one is injured, the other gets injured constantly, Thiggy is an interception machine, and Guitierrez is inconsistent as can be.

I would actually like Garcia to be brought in, and kick Thiggy to the curb.

If you can't keep a QB healthy, maybe you should've done something about it when you had the chance... i don't know, maybe like drafting an OL before taking two DE's and ANOTHER QB in the first 3 rounds.



No my friend, Jared Allen takes the cake in that category.

This...


At least Jared Allen landed us a franchise left tackle. Cutting Pollard doesn't do anything positive quite frankly.


Really? Cutting Pollard is worse than:

1. Hiring Herm Edwards
yes
2. Instituting the Cover 2
yes
3. Sticking with the Brodie Croyle Experiment
Like what your boys Pioli/Haley are doing?... yes
4. Trading Jared Allen
absolutely yes
5. Cutting Napo because he called Herm out
Who is Napo playing for now?... yes
6. Running LJ 416 times in a season
Well, we've seen what happens with LJ when you don't give him the ball... so, yes.
7. Giving LJ, Donnie Edwards, and MacIntosh massive contracts
No... those moves were on par with the Pollard release.
8. Starting Adrian Jones at RG in 2008
Who else was there to play?
9. Any of the other idiotic moves we made from 2006-2008
like?

And believe it or not, you can't coach everything. They tried and Pollard couldn't manage to be decent in coverage. It's a shame but it's the way it goes.

Reference McBride playing OLB...

Hayvern
09-05-2009, 09:20 PM
What positive comes from keeping Pollard? If he can't handle the job and the scheme, then what good comes from keeping him?

If there was any problem with Pollard it came from the fact that for the last two years, he was the only guy on defense who could stop anything. Yeah, he might have been blown away on a coverage here and there, but how many big runs was he able to stop because the linebacker corp was crap?

He might have had a hard time adjusting to letting the linebackers do their job, but there is no denying that he had to be worth something in trade to someone. Just cutting the only guy on the team that was able to apply a hit and stop a runner for the last two seasons without trying to get something for him is an assinine move.

I am firmly convinced at this point that Haley is out of his head. Time will only tell if he is any improvement over Squirmin Herman. I hate to be negative, but aside from him letting everyone know that he is the boss and pulls the strings, he has done nothing this offseason or preseason that has shown me that he is out to improve this team.

I think the problem that is going to rear its head is one of Haley being a micromanager and that is going to get us in trouble.

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 09:20 PM
If you can't keep a QB healthy, maybe you should've done something about it when you had the chance... i don't know, maybe like drafting an OL before taking two DE's and ANOTHER QB in the first 3 rounds.


Hello, we needed a solid DE to run a 3-4, and Jackson was that guy. I like Magee alot, but yeah they could have picked up an OL there, and I would have been happy, but Magee is going to be solid.

So when Jackson and Magee tear it up in the near future, i doubt you will be hating the picks then.

josh1971
09-05-2009, 09:21 PM
Really- cutting Bernard Pollard was a bigger mistake than hiring Herm Edwards.

Just wow....

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 09:21 PM
If you can coach a DT/DE like McBride to step back and play OLB in the 3-4, there's no reason you can't coach Pollard to play the SS position the way you WANT him to play. Saying you can't coach a player is ridiculous.



If you can't keep a QB healthy, maybe you should've done something about it when you had the chance... i don't know, maybe like drafting an OL before taking two DE's and ANOTHER QB in the first 3 rounds.




This...





Reference McBride playing OLB...

McBride and Hali could be coached to a new position and Pollard couldn't. Why is this hard to understand?

And if you really think that cutting a safety was a worse move for the Chiefs than trading for Herm f'n Edwards, a coach that won 6 games in the past two years, or trading away Jared Allen, one of the best young DEs in the game, then I don't know what we have to talk about. I'll let your comment read as a testament to your knowledge (or lack thereof) of Chiefs football.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 09:29 PM
If there was any problem with Pollard it came from the fact that for the last two years, he was the only guy on defense who could stop anything. Yeah, he might have been blown away on a coverage here and there, but how many big runs was he able to stop because the linebacker corp was crap?

He might have had a hard time adjusting to letting the linebackers do their job, but there is no denying that he had to be worth something in trade to someone. Just cutting the only guy on the team that was able to apply a hit and stop a runner for the last two seasons without trying to get something for him is an assinine move.

I am firmly convinced at this point that Haley is out of his head. Time will only tell if he is any improvement over Squirmin Herman. I hate to be negative, but aside from him letting everyone know that he is the boss and pulls the strings, he has done nothing this offseason or preseason that has shown me that he is out to improve this team.

I think the problem that is going to rear its head is one of Haley being a micromanager and that is going to get us in trouble.

1. Pollard was a decent-to-good draft pick made by Herm (I don't write those words often).
2. Pollard plays with a high motor, hits hard, and can solidly tackle.
3. Pollard, beacuse our front seven was so terrible, made a ton of tackles in 2006-2008.
4. Pollard was bad in coverage from 2006-2008.
5. Pollard looked terrible in coverage in camp.
6. Over the four preseason games in 2009, Pollard looked terrible in coverage.
7. The 3-4 defense requires a SS to be at least adequate in coverage.
8. Pollard has an attitude problem and would be a locker room problem if he were demoted.
9. They tried to trade Pollard but couldn't find a partner.
10. We have a much better front seven than we did in 2008, which means we don't need a LB at the SS spot - we need a SS.

Is it really a shock he was cut? I wanted nothing more than for Pollard to work out. Prior to camp, I though he would work out. He didn't work out. It's a shame, but it's the way it is.

Bike
09-05-2009, 09:31 PM
Pioli/Haley are done with players who don't give 100 percent every play. After having the leagues worse defense for two years running, nobody was safe. You can't build a championship team with mediocre players. So now Pollard will be missing tackles for another team...

Hayvern
09-05-2009, 09:36 PM
1. Pollard was a decent-to-good draft pick made by Herm (I don't write those words often).
2. Pollard plays with a high motor, hits hard, and can solidly tackle.
3. Pollard, beacuse our front seven was so terrible, made a ton of tackles in 2006-2008.
4. Pollard was bad in coverage from 2006-2008.
5. Pollard looked terrible in coverage in camp.
6. Over the four preseason games in 2009, Pollard looked terrible in coverage.
7. The 3-4 defense requires a SS to be at least adequate in coverage.
8. Pollard has an attitude problem and would be a locker room problem if he were demoted.
9. They tried to trade Pollard but couldn't find a partner.
10. We have a much better front seven than we did in 2008, which means we don't need a LB at the SS spot - we need a SS.

Is it really a shock he was cut? I wanted nothing more than for Pollard to work out. Prior to camp, I though he would work out. He didn't work out. It's a shame, but it's the way it is.

I find it a little hard to understand this thing that he was a problem. That he would be a locker room cancer. Maybe I have to read more because I had never read anything that would lead me to believe that other than him getting in the DC's face.

He talked smack earlier this season in a practice scrimmage, and even then Haley said that he had not heard much out of Pollard, but he sure did that day.

Anyway, he is gone and I will accept that, but I still say that Haley is not going to be a good head coach this season. I hope he grows into the job and maybe Pioli can help him get there, but right now, Haley looks as bad at his job as many of the players we cut this season.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 09:39 PM
Hello, we needed a solid DE to run a 3-4, and Jackson was that guy. I like Magee alot, but yeah they could have picked up an OL there, and I would have been happy, but Magee is going to be solid.

So when Jackson and Magee tear it up in the near future, i doubt you will be hating the picks then.

We obviously didn't need Magee as much as a good offensive lineman... especially since he couldn't even unseat Dorsey for a starting spot.


McBride and Hali could be coached to a new position and Pollard couldn't. Why is this hard to understand?

And if you really think that cutting a safety was a worse move for the Chiefs than trading for Herm f'n Edwards, a coach that won 6 games in the past two years, or trading away Jared Allen, one of the best young DEs in the game, then I don't know what we have to talk about. I'll let your comment read as a testament to your knowledge (or lack thereof) of Chiefs football.

Vermeil/CP left NOTHING but an old/deteriorating team for Edwards to coach. What did you think was going to happen? Other than Allen and LJ, who did Vermeil/CP give Edwards as cornerstones to build on?

If ANYONE should be happy about the Allen trade, it should be you guys. Allen isn't a 3-4 DE and that trade helped secure a franchise OT... something Pioli didn't do before he invested all that money in his QBOTF. Yet, another idiotic move. They could've found a Pro Bowl caliber RT in free agency while we had the most money to spend OR in the third round... but he didn't.

I'm still waiting to judge this front office/coaching staff. They HAVEN'T had enough time to prove their effectiveness one way or the other, but their decision making is at the VERY LEAST, questionable.

The hiring of Haley (a coach with only half a season's experience at OC), switching to the fashionable 3-4 when this team had been built for the past 4 years to play 4-3 was questionable. Giving Cassel that contract before having proven anything other than being able to throw to great receivers behind a great line, not protecting that investment, firing Gailey one week before the season starts, and now straight out releasing a player because after one off season, (in JML's words) he was deemed "uncoachable with a poor attitude" is absolutely questionable decision making.

To say these moves that have been made since Pioli was hired, were moves that OBVIOUSLY HAD to be made is just blind following.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 09:40 PM
I find it a little hard to understand this thing that he was a problem. That he would be a locker room cancer. Maybe I have to read more because I had never read anything that would lead me to believe that other than him getting in the DC's face.

He talked smack earlier this season in a practice scrimmage, and even then Haley said that he had not heard much out of Pollard, but he sure did that day.

Anyway, he is gone and I will accept that, but I still say that Haley is not going to be a good head coach this season. I hope he grows into the job and maybe Pioli can help him get there, but right now, Haley looks as bad at his job as many of the players we cut this season.

What has Haley done badly at his job? He doesn't cut or sign players (although he has input) - the GM does.

Look, I understand liking Pollard and being worried about 2009. But our GM and HC inherited a monumnetally untalented team and have made it better at every position not named TE. We're on the right track.

Big Daddy Tek
09-05-2009, 09:46 PM
Wow, I havent said anything in this thread because I know this is a huge deal to alot of people and everybody is fired up. Im not thirlled about this either, but I know that Bernard would not have been cut if he was holding his own compared to the other safeties. In the end, his coverage skills came back to haunt him and so did his lack of not wrapping up the ball carrier.

As far as the notion that keeping 4 QB's over Pollard being a mistake, I disagree. No way Guttierrez isnt claimed off waivers, meaning that he would not have been able to make our practice squad because we would have had to release him first. He is from too good a lineage of coaching to not be picked up by somebody. On the other end, Tyler Thigpen has trade value based on what he did last year. As we all know, Pollard was being shopped the past couple days and obviously Thigpen held more value in a trade scenario than Pollard. I think thats why he was released. When you add the fact that our starting QB is injured, it all makes sense.

Until I see a history of bad personell moves resulting in losses, I will hold my stance as somebody who is confident in the decisions made by the GM of the decade.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST! For alot of you new guys here, this is what this forum was like everyday while Herm and Carl were running the show. In some cases it was much more hostile and negative. The Pioli / Haley regime has created hope and confidence that hasn't been seen in almost 20 years. Lets stay true to our team until we have reason to do otherwise. Thank You.

DT14PRIEST
09-05-2009, 09:49 PM
Wow Chiefan, you really gave me negative rep for that post???

WOW!!!:iamwithstupid:

YOU GET NEGATIVE REP FROM ME AS WELL!!!

texaschief
09-05-2009, 09:50 PM
What has Haley done badly at his job? He doesn't cut or sign players (although he has input) - the GM does.

Look, I understand liking Pollard and being worried about 2009. But our GM and HC inherited a monumnetally untalented team and have made it better at every position not named TE. We're on the right track.

The team was mostly YOUNG not as much "untalented." If you want to see a team that was untalented, go back to 2005. NO youth, NO talent.

buttabean58
09-05-2009, 09:50 PM
we shall see how this all works out.

Vanilla Garilla
09-05-2009, 09:55 PM
YOU GET NEGATIVE REP FROM ME AS WELL!!!

Hahaha, very niiiice (borat voice)

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 09:55 PM
Vermeil/CP left NOTHING but an old/deteriorating team for Edwards to coach. What did you think was going to happen? Other than Allen and LJ, who did Vermeil/CP give Edwards as cornerstones to build on?

In 2006, Herm the Worm had:

Will Shields
Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson
Sammy Knight
Patrick Surtain
Kawika Mitchell
Trent Green
LJ
Jared Allen
Tony Richardson
Jimmy Wilkerson
Casey Wiegmann
Dustin Colquitt
Lawrence Tynes

The 2006 draft brought in Hali, Pollard, and Page (who you, if not I, like).

Is that a great team? Nah. Some guys (Trent Green, Shields, and Surtain) were at the end of their careers. But it's a whole lot more talent than Pioli and Haley are starting with.


The hiring of Haley (a coach with only half a season's experience at OC), switching to the fashionable 3-4 when this team had been built for the past 4 years to play 4-3 was questionable. Giving Cassel that contract before having proven anything other than being able to throw to great receivers behind a great line, not protecting that investment, firing Gailey one week before the season starts, and now straight out releasing a player because after one off season, (in JML's words) he was deemed "uncoachable with a poor attitude" is absolutely questionable decision making.

Don't quote things I never wrote. If you can't be right, at least be honest.

Pollard couldn't be coached to the level of coverage necessary for the Chiefs new defense. Accept it and move on.

Hayvern
09-05-2009, 09:58 PM
What has Haley done badly at his job? He doesn't cut or sign players (although he has input) - the GM does.


the GM makes the business decisions, but when a player is releases it is the coach making that call. The GM might do the actual firing, but I guarantee that Haley is the one that makes that decision.

I guarantee that Haley also was a huge part if not the main decision to let Gailey go as well. He said as much in the press conference when it was announced.

I have to admit that I have never been on the Haley bandwagon. I just don't think he is head coach material. I have a lot of reasons to think that.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 09:59 PM
the GM makes the business decisions, but when a player is releases it is the coach making that call. The GM might do the actual firing, but I guarantee that Haley is the one that makes that decision.

I guarantee that Haley also was a huge part if not the main decision to let Gailey go as well. He said as much in the press conference when it was announced.

I have to admit that I have never been on the Haley bandwagon. I just don't think he is head coach material. I have a lot of reasons to think that.

Fair enough. This is one of those disputes that only time will tell.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:03 PM
The team was mostly YOUNG not as much "untalented." If you want to see a team that was untalented, go back to 2005. NO youth, NO talent.

You mean the team that went 10-6 and contained older but Pro Bowl-level players like Roaf, Green, Shields, Waters, Wiegmann, Welbourn, TG, Priest Holmes, LJ, DJ, Surtain, and Richardson (among many others)? That team?

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:04 PM
Seriously, people pretending that Pollard was a great SS haven't been watching much Chiefs football. He has potential but he's terrible in coverage, has poor instincts, and has an attitude problem. He can hit and tackle with the best, but they want a guy who can do more than that.

And the fact that he was a 2nd round pick means nothing. Herm Edwards picked a lot of guys high who turned out to be terrible. Pollard will be a good backup for a 4-3 team this season, no more, no less.

Pioli wants a SS that's great in coverage and has a great attitude. We'll start Mike Brown and pick up a guy off waivers.


Sure I said that. It was prior to seeing him in the preseason games, but I said it. And I haven't said anything but that Pollard has good skills but isn't a fit for our new defense. I thought a real coach could get Pollard playing coverage at a starting level. I was wrong.

And I still have yet to say a kind word about Page. I'll believe he can be a legitimate starting FS when I see it.


McBride and Hali could be coached to a new position and Pollard couldn't. Why is this hard to understand?

And if you really think that cutting a safety was a worse move for the Chiefs than trading for Herm f'n Edwards, a coach that won 6 games in the past two years, or trading away Jared Allen, one of the best young DEs in the game, then I don't know what we have to talk about. I'll let your comment read as a testament to your knowledge (or lack thereof) of Chiefs football.


1. Pollard was a decent-to-good draft pick made by Herm (I don't write those words often).
2. Pollard plays with a high motor, hits hard, and can solidly tackle.
3. Pollard, beacuse our front seven was so terrible, made a ton of tackles in 2006-2008.
4. Pollard was bad in coverage from 2006-2008.
5. Pollard looked terrible in coverage in camp.
6. Over the four preseason games in 2009, Pollard looked terrible in coverage.
7. The 3-4 defense requires a SS to be at least adequate in coverage.
8. Pollard has an attitude problem and would be a locker room problem if he were demoted.
9. They tried to trade Pollard but couldn't find a partner.
10. We have a much better front seven than we did in 2008, which means we don't need a LB at the SS spot - we need a SS.

Is it really a shock he was cut? I wanted nothing more than for Pollard to work out. Prior to camp, I though he would work out. He didn't work out. It's a shame, but it's the way it is.





Don't quote things I never wrote. If you can't be right, at least be honest.

Pollard couldn't be coached to the level of coverage necessary for the Chiefs new defense. Accept it and move on.

You didn't say that he was uncoachable and had a poor attitude problem? What did I miss? Is this "honest" enough for you?

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:07 PM
You mean the team that went 10-6 and contained older but Pro Bowl-level players like Roaf, Green, Shields, Waters, Wiegmann, Welbourn, TG, Priest Holmes, LJ, DJ, Surtain, and Richardson (among many others)? That team?

Yeah. The same team that Dick Vermeil abandoned because he saw what was about to happen. He knew 2003/2004 was their best chance to get to the Super Bowl. How many of those players were good enough to BUILD with? Waters, LJ, DJ, and JA were the only players I see that could even make LAST year's team.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:12 PM
You didn't say that he was uncoachable and had a poor attitude problem? What did I miss? Is this "honest" enough for you?

No. Don't use quotes unless I actually wrote a thing.

I wrote several times that Pollard couldn't be coached to the level of a 3-4 SS and that his poor attitude led coached to think he would be a problem in the locker room. That isn't the same as "uncoachable with a bad attitude." Which you know.

DT14PRIEST
09-05-2009, 10:13 PM
Bernard Pollard better be in the HoF after this...

haha

Seek
09-05-2009, 10:13 PM
i never really cared for pollard. he will definitely not clear waivers, but i don't really think this hurt our defense.

I agree. Seriously the sky is falling... but the guy does nothing but try to knock out every ball carrier, and usually only makes the tackle on half of them. He is horrific in pass coverage. He is constantly getting beat for the big plays.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:13 PM
No. Don't use quotes unless I actually wrote a thing.

I wrote several times that Pollard couldn't be coached to the level of a 3-4 SS and that his poor attitude led coached to think he would be a problem in the locker room. That isn't the same as "uncoachable with a bad attitude." Which you know.

:funnypost: Whatever you say hommie.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:16 PM
Yeah. The same team that Dick Vermeil abandoned because he saw what was about to happen. He knew 2003/2004 was their best chance to get to the Super Bowl. How many of those players were good enough to BUILD with? Waters, LJ, DJ, and JA were the only players I see that could even make LAST year's team.

2005-2006 players who could have started in 2008:

Will Shields
Sammy Knight
Kawika Mitchell
Trent Green
Jared Allen
Tony Richardson
Jimmy Wilkerson
Casey Wiegmann
Lawrence Tynes

Not to mention that the following 2005-2006 starters did start in 2008:

Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson
Patrick Surtain

LJ
Dustin Colquitt

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:18 PM
:funnypost: Whatever you say hommie.

:iamwithstupid:

It's "homie." Do you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

Hayvern
09-05-2009, 10:19 PM
Dustin Colquitt

Thank God we still have Colquitt. At least we have one player left to bring some excitement to the field.

DT14PRIEST
09-05-2009, 10:20 PM
Thank God we still have Colquitt. At least we have one player left to bring some excitement to the field.

I dunno about just Colquitt. I mean when the O-Line is out there its kind of exciting, in a dreadful way.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:22 PM
:iamwithstupid:

It's "homie." Do you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

I wouldn't know... you tell me.

Bike
09-05-2009, 10:23 PM
We obviously didn't need Magee as much as a good offensive lineman... especially since he couldn't even unseat Dorsey for a starting spot.
Did you really expect a rookie 3rd rd pick to beat out a 2nd year 1st rd pick?

I'm still waiting to judge this front office/coaching staff. They HAVEN'T had enough time to prove their effectiveness one way or the other, but their decision making is at the VERY LEAST, questionable.

The hiring of Haley (a coach with only half a season's experience at OC), switching to the fashionable 3-4 when this team had been built for the past 4 years to play 4-3 was questionable. Giving Cassel that contract before having proven anything other than being able to throw to great receivers behind a great line, not protecting that investment, firing Gailey one week before the season starts, and now straight out releasing a player because after one off season, (in JML's words) he was deemed "uncoachable with a poor attitude" is absolutely questionable decision making.

To say these moves that have been made since Pioli was hired, were moves that OBVIOUSLY HAD to be made is just blind following.

Pioli was instrumental in building a NE team that won 3 superbowls. 3! He knows what it takes to build a championship team.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:24 PM
I wouldn't know... you tell me.

That would be clever if you were in kindergarten. Actually, you may be. Did Herm stop by and talk to your class? Is that why you still love him?

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:27 PM
2005-2006 players who could have started in 2008:

Will Shields
Sammy Knight
Trent Green
Kawika Mitchell
Jared Allen
Tony Richardson
Jimmy Wilkerson
Casey Wiegmann
Lawrence Tynes

Not to mention that the following 2005-2006 starters did start in 2008:

Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson
Patrick Surtain

LJ
Dustin Colquitt

You WOULD think those players who didn't even play last season would be able to play. :iamwithstupid:

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:28 PM
Pioli was instrumental in building a NE team that won 3 superbowls. 3! He knows what it takes to build a championship team.

Actually, yeah. I did. But that's what I get for reading JML's posts.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:28 PM
You WOULD think those players who didn't even play last season would be able to play. :iamwithstupid:
We were talking about the players in their 2005-2006 form. Did you already forget your question?

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:31 PM
That would be clever if you were in kindergarten. Actually, you may be. Did Herm stop by and talk to your class? Is that why you still love him?

Herm had his faults, but for every reason you try and defend Pioli/Haley are the SAME EXACT reasons why I defended Edwards. Edwards was left with much less than Pioli/Haley were... it was Pioli/Haley's decision to switch defenses that have made the past few drafts even less effective than they could have been.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:34 PM
We were talking about the players in their 2005-2006 form. Did you already forget your question?

No, you just decided to make a jump. I was saying that the players were old and untalented. Thus, leaving Edwards with nothing to build on. So, those players (because they were out of the league) couldn't have made last year's team.

Understand now or do I have to keep holding your hand?

Bike
09-05-2009, 10:34 PM
Edwards was left with much less than Pioli/Haley were...

Wow.

captainamerica
09-05-2009, 10:35 PM
As far as the notion that keeping 4 QB's over Pollard being a mistake, I disagree. No way Guttierrez isnt claimed off waivers, meaning that he would not have been able to make our practice squad because we would have had to release him first.
I actually don't think some other team would've claimed him off waivers. Gutierrez is a guy that was undrafted coming out of college, has spent most of his career on the practice squad and has never really been any higher on the depth chart than a 3rd stringer. Matt Gutierrez would've almost certainly made it past waivers. The guy has only completed 1 NFL pass in his entire career and did nothing to standout during the pre-season. Throw on top of that the fact that there's a lot better options out there on waivers (Jeff Garcia, JDB, Joey Harrington, Brohm, O'Connell, etc.) and there's teams looking to trade some of their QBs (Minnesota, KC, Tampa) it becomes pretty clear to me that Gutierrez wouldn't have likely been claimed off waivers and we could've kept him for our practice squad.

josh1971
09-05-2009, 10:36 PM
Who'd have thought that cutting Bernard Pollard would result in anarchy....

AkChief49
09-05-2009, 10:37 PM
I actually don't think some other team would've claimed him off waivers. Gutierrez is a guy that was undrafted coming out of college, has spent most of his career on the practice squad and has never really been any higher on the depth chart than a 3rd stringer. Matt Gutierrez would've almost certainly made it past waivers. The guy has only completed 1 NFL pass in his entire career and did nothing to standout during the pre-season. Throw on top of that the fact that there's a lot better options out there on waivers (Jeff Garcia, JDB, Joey Harrington, Brohm, O'Connell, etc.) and there's teams looking to trade some of their QBs (Minnesota, KC, Tampa) it becomes pretty clear to me that Gutierrez wouldn't have likely been claimed off waivers and we could've kept him for our practice squad.
strike Tampa. they unloaded McCown to Jags

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:37 PM
I'll be back later. I've got a gig I need to get to.

Goodnite

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:37 PM
Herm had his faults, but for every reason you try and defend Pioli/Haley are the SAME EXACT reasons why I defended Edwards. Edwards was left with much less than Pioli/Haley were... it was Pioli/Haley's decision to switch defenses that have made the past few drafts even less effective than they could have been.

Right. That's why Herm's picks stink. Because we switched up the one of the worst defenses in the league.

With Herm's guys we were the worst defense in league history in sacks. We were abysmal against the run and pass. You defend Herm because you (1) are his mother; (2) are his daughter; or (3) have no conception of what it takes to build a winning fotball team.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:38 PM
I'll be back later. I've got a gig I need to get to.

Goodnite

Passing out drunk doesn't count as a gig.

texaschief
09-05-2009, 10:50 PM
Right. That's why Herm's picks stink. Because we switched up the one of the worst defenses in the league.

With Herm's guys we were the worst defense in league history in sacks. We were abysmal against the run and pass.


I keep forgetting Herm was left with a juggernaut defense. My bad. You really should get a clue.

jmlamerson
09-05-2009, 10:54 PM
I keep forgetting Herm was left with a juggernaut defense. My bad. You really should get a clue.

I thought you were going to bed. Oops, I meant to a gig.

Herm inherited a bad defense and made it worse over his three years. This despite spending a ton of money on it. It was quite the accompishment.

Sn@keIze
09-05-2009, 10:57 PM
Pollard was a special player and he will end up starting with another team.

I just dont understand this cut.

Bike
09-05-2009, 11:03 PM
Herms record as a Chief: 15-34.
The team he inherited from Vermiel? 9-7 and went to the playoffs. After which he completely destroyed us going 6-26.
Great coach.

Bike
09-05-2009, 11:06 PM
Pollard was a special player and he will end up starting with another team.

I just dont understand this cut.
I think he had the physical ability. He was just braindead and didn't show the effort that was needed to make this team.

Springfield Chiefs
09-06-2009, 12:08 AM
Pollard is a hero, his release makes no sense.

josh1971
09-06-2009, 12:20 AM
Pollard is a hero, his release makes no sense.

Hero? In what way is Bernard Pollard a hero?

DT14PRIEST
09-06-2009, 12:22 AM
NFL Videos: Seahawks 14, Chiefs 10 (http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d8123fcaf/Seahawks-14-Chiefs-10)

Watch between 2:50 thru 3:58.

Not taking anything away from Pollard but he is spectacularly average at best after 4 years.

Some pretty big whiffs IMO. Saw this on AP.

garciakcfan
09-06-2009, 12:31 AM
WOW the mudslingin is pretty hot and heavy in here...lol.. What a great thread to read after a ****ty day at work... lamerson is up to his typical trash talking self... if only i could meet you in person... i think it'd be a great conversation!!!!!

AkChief49
09-06-2009, 12:36 AM
seen another at 1:44

Three7s
09-06-2009, 01:35 AM
Finally this waste of a roster spot got cut.

Big Daddy Tek
09-06-2009, 01:57 AM
Finally this waste of a roster spot got cut.

Nice. Just a little fuel to the fire. lol

Eydugstr
09-06-2009, 02:09 AM
Released...
CB Jackie Bates
TE Tom Crabree
DE Dion Gales
DE Bobby Greenwood
G Darryl Harris
WR Taurus Johnson
WR Ashley Lelie
DT Derek Lokey
S Bernard Pollard
S Ricky Price
LB Zach Thomas
RB Javarris Williams
WR Rodney Wright
Placed on IR...
G Colin Brown

WTF are they smoking at one arrowhead drive? With Lelie and Toomer gone, teams are going to double and triple cover Bowe, and with Pollard gone they are going to run up the middle at will. This is going to be a LONG season, folks.

Isawa_mo
09-06-2009, 02:25 AM
WE ARE DOOMED!! (just kidding) Honestly, I do not care what people they cut/trade from the last couple of years.

This is what happens when you rebuild and bring in a whole new front office/coaching staff folks. I will reserve my judging them until the preseason in 2011. If they do not look to be a serious contender for the AFC West by then, I will call these guys failures. Before then its not even fair. At that point they will have had a chance to draft/sign the type of players that fit their system.

Three7s
09-06-2009, 07:17 AM
Nice. Just a little fuel to the fire. lol
Man, I'm just amazed at how much of an uproar is being created by cutting a player that can't wrap up on a tackle, can't cover, and has a bad attitude.

Everyone's excuse, "He hits hard!". After that complete whiff of a tackle against that receiver from Seattle, which eventually lead to him scampering into the endzone, that was the last straw for me.

After reading all of the posts, it is pretty obvious that Pollard is the most idolized bad player in all of sports.

rodu
09-06-2009, 09:19 AM
ITT: Bernard Pollard is an all world SS, the sky is falling and Piolli/Haley are the Devil himself

Seek
09-06-2009, 09:47 AM
Herm had his faults, but for every reason you try and defend Pioli/Haley are the SAME EXACT reasons why I defended Edwards. Edwards was left with much less than Pioli/Haley were... it was Pioli/Haley's decision to switch defenses that have made the past few drafts even less effective than they could have been.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. FACt. Herm inherited a play off team, and took them to the play offs.

Haley and Pioli inherited a 2-14 team. It was Herm who blew up the team to go young, and it killed the entire team.

Pioli and Haley are blowing up the team to start from scratch since Herm destroyed the entire franchise.

The only defense that I hear you trying to make, is that firing Herm and CP should have happened a year earlier.

wolfpack
09-06-2009, 09:55 AM
Pollard couldn`t cover an old lady. He would made some hard hits sometimes but never seemed to do much in coverage.
Lelie i thought was playing fairly good.I`d kept him over Cooper.
if we want a good receiver we`ll have to trade for one. No one is going to trade a above average o-line this late.
It took Dickie V acouple of years to get his high flying offense up and going.

jmlamerson
09-06-2009, 11:01 AM
I dont like the move but for a reason other people dont seem to be posting. I know he couldnt cover my grandma but he did hit like a train. And he also had a niche for blocking punts. I would of love to seen him kept as a special teams guru. He would bring big hits and block a punt or 2 and give the fans the OOH AHH wacks we love. Convert him to linebacker?

Some team is going to try to do exactly that. Bring him on as a reserve LB/SS and special teams gunner. And he might excel in that role.

jb908
09-06-2009, 11:49 AM
pioli is probably still pissed at pollard for hurting brady

Hayvern
09-06-2009, 12:48 PM
Man, I'm just amazed at how much of an uproar is being created by cutting a player that can't wrap up on a tackle, can't cover, and has a bad attitude.

Everyone's excuse, "He hits hard!". After that complete whiff of a tackle against that receiver from Seattle, which eventually lead to him scampering into the endzone, that was the last straw for me.

After reading all of the posts, it is pretty obvious that Pollard is the most idolized bad player in all of sports.

Its not that, Pollard was the only guy we had last year that was able to do anything on defense. Everyone is saying what a bad tackler he was, but he led the team in tackling last year so that tells me that either he was pretty good at something. Yeah, I know that our defense more or less sucked last year and we really shook it up this year, but I have a very hard time believing that last year's leading tackler was not worth anything this year and we would just release him.

KCINNYC
09-06-2009, 01:33 PM
Why is ANYONE here pissed off? Benard was a colorful personality, but face it, he is not a Pro Bowl Strong Safety. He was lazy in camp, his skills are not the best, and he doesn't aggressively tackle like Haley wanted. He wasn't hungry. Mike Brown is a baller. He knows how to win. And last season was his third best year in his career for tackles.

Why is anyone pissed? If people would just watch the Press Conferences every day, you would know Haley knows what he is doing. The guy is SUPER smart.

matthewschiefs
09-06-2009, 01:48 PM
Why is ANYONE here pissed off? Benard was a colorful personality, but face it, he is not a Pro Bowl Strong Safety. He was lazy in camp, his skills are not the best, and he doesn't aggressively tackle like Haley wanted. He wasn't hungry. Mike Brown is a baller. He knows how to win. And last season was his third best year in his career for tackles.

Why is anyone pissed? If people would just watch the Press Conferences every day, you would know Haley knows what he is doing. The guy is SUPER smart.


Brown is not a downgrade from pollard at all. The only reason that i question the move is that Brown has had a lot of SEASON ENDING injuries early on in the season. If this happens again the loss of Pollard will hurt the Chiefs. Thats the only thing i have with the cutting of pollard. Its not an outright stupid move its just a little bit of a risk.

Bosco
09-06-2009, 01:57 PM
I agree with all the cuts, but not pollard. he could be a special teamer atleast.

Sn@keIze
09-06-2009, 02:08 PM
Does anyone here think that Brown or Mcgraw can really lead this team in tackles?

billb40
09-06-2009, 02:53 PM
No, you just decided to make a jump. I was saying that the players were old and untalented. Thus, leaving Edwards with nothing to build on. So, those players (because they were out of the league) couldn't have made last year's team.

Understand now or do I have to keep holding your hand?

How many games did Herm win in the last two years? Not that i look forward to many wins this year but hey every one has an opinion.

That is exactly what we are reading opinions, are they right or wrong, does it matter. Only time will tell.

bigpoppachief
09-06-2009, 04:18 PM
I dont agree with Pollard or Lelie but Pioli and Haley know what they are doing. I just don't know whon the heck si going to play pollards spot ? Mike Brown ? He is getting old though Grrr I dont like that at all

Three7s
09-06-2009, 05:41 PM
Its not that, Pollard was the only guy we had last year that was able to do anything on defense. Everyone is saying what a bad tackler he was, but he led the team in tackling last year so that tells me that either he was pretty good at something. Yeah, I know that our defense more or less sucked last year and we really shook it up this year, but I have a very hard time believing that last year's leading tackler was not worth anything this year and we would just release him.
All that does is tell you how awful our defense was last year. A safety should NEVER be leading your team in tackles! It should ALWAYS be a linebacker. Of course, even with the tons of chances for tackles he had, thanks our horrible front 7, he still whiffed on a ton of them.

buttabean58
09-06-2009, 08:38 PM
So is this going to be a trend us getting players that NE cuts or dont want anymore? If so it willget really old really quick.

MPGfanChiefs15
09-06-2009, 09:11 PM
I actually don't think some other team would've claimed him off waivers. Gutierrez is a guy that was undrafted coming out of college, has spent most of his career on the practice squad and has never really been any higher on the depth chart than a 3rd stringer. Matt Gutierrez would've almost certainly made it past waivers. The guy has only completed 1 NFL pass in his entire career and did nothing to standout during the pre-season. Throw on top of that the fact that there's a lot better options out there on waivers (Jeff Garcia, JDB, Joey Harrington, Brohm, O'Connell, etc.) and there's teams looking to trade some of their QBs (Minnesota, KC, Tampa) it becomes pretty clear to me that Gutierrez wouldn't have likely been claimed off waivers and we could've kept him for our practice squad.
Just to clarify Gutierrez has not spent most of his career on the practice squad. Most of his career has been spent as a backup, which is not unlike some of the other QBs on this roster.

buttabean58
09-06-2009, 09:32 PM
Gutierrez also came from NE not likeing the trend.

jmlamerson
09-06-2009, 09:37 PM
Gutierrez also came from NE not likeing the trend.

Why? The Pats were the best team of the 2000s. We're getting better players than our current ones, and players who know the offensive and defensive schemes we're running. What is there to whine about?

yashi
09-06-2009, 09:44 PM
All that matters is getting players who are better than the players we have. Who cares if they're Patriots scraps or not. Seeing C.J. Ah-You run right around McIntosh to almost murder Brodie Croyle Thursday should make you feel the same way.

Hayvern
09-07-2009, 12:57 AM
So is this going to be a trend us getting players that NE cuts or dont want anymore? If so it willget really old really quick.

Nah man, it will never get old if we can get players that are a step up from what we have.

I think it is natural for us to get players from the Patriots, that will slow down the longer Pioli is away from the team, but let's not forget that Pioli knows these guys, he knows their attitudes and their abilities. I think he would know if they are better than what we have, so I have no problem with getting players from the Patriots roster.

McLovin
09-07-2009, 10:20 PM
Just an observation but Pollard has been on the block for 48 hours and cleared waivers. I wouldnt be suprised if their was a team or two in negotiations but regardless he didn't get snatched right up and might be that the other 31 teams saw what Haley saw.

Hope I didn't start another big fight but just wanted to point this out.

jmlamerson
09-07-2009, 10:41 PM
Just an observation but Pollard has been on the block for 48 hours and cleared waivers. I wouldnt be suprised if their was a team or two in negotiations but regardless he didn't get snatched right up and might be that the other 31 teams saw what Haley saw.

Hope I didn't start another big fight but just wanted to point this out.

Wait, wait, wait. Are you implying that cutting Pollard *wasn't* the worst mistake the Chiefs have made since 2005?

McLovin
09-07-2009, 11:10 PM
Wait, wait, wait. Are you implying that cutting Pollard *wasn't* the worst mistake the Chiefs have made since 2005?
With hiring hermie in the mix releasing the whole team and picking up high schoolers wouldnt be the worst mistake the Chiefs have made since 2005.

I throw up in my throat every time I hear Hermie *try* to call a game on TV.

Chiefster
09-07-2009, 11:13 PM
Nah man, it will never get old if we can get players that are a step up from what we have.

I think it is natural for us to get players from the Patriots, that will slow down the longer Pioli is away from the team, but let's not forget that Pioli knows these guys, he knows their attitudes and their abilities. I think he would know if they are better than what we have, so I have no problem with getting players from the Patriots roster.


A little like the KC Sanfran connection in the 90's.

McLovin
09-07-2009, 11:17 PM
A little like the KC Sanfran connection in the 90's.

Wouldnt it make more sense for KC to be the team that everyone wants players from instead of trying to duplicate success of another team by picking up the people they release and trading with them for who they are willing to deal. Dont get me wrong I love the throught of what Cassel, Vrabel, O'Callaghan, Gutie, and others can do for this squad... but just for once I want to see another team happy to get Chiefs players that were released, because the Chiefs have been the team of the decade.

Chiefster
09-07-2009, 11:20 PM
Wouldnt it make more sense for KC to be the team that everyone wants players from instead of trying to duplicate success of another team by picking up the people they release and trading with them for who they are willing to deal. Dont get me wrong I love the throught of what Cassel, Vrabel, O'Callaghan, Gutie, and others can do for this squad... but just for once I want to see another team happy to get Chiefs players that were released, because the Chiefs have been the team of the decade.

Good point; kinda like when Neil Smith went to the Donks.

chief31
09-08-2009, 11:10 AM
The team was mostly YOUNG not as much "untalented." If you want to see a team that was untalented, go back to 2005. NO youth, NO talent.

There was a truckload of talent there. Not a truckload of youth. But far from as barren as you like to suggest.

Even with a completely empty roster, Herm should have been able to field a decent team in three years.

I am off Herms back now. In fact, I would have preferred to have kept him for one more season than to getting Haley.

But he did a poor job here.

And I will agree that there was more to build with in place for this staff, than there was for Herm.


Pioli was instrumental in building a NE team that won 3 superbowls. 3! He knows what it takes to build a championship team.

Bill Wennington was a part of three NBA championships. But I think everyone knows that Micheal Jordan was the one that carried him there. Just as Bellichick has carried so many.


WOW the mudslingin is pretty hot and heavy in here...lol.. What a great thread to read after a ****ty day at work... lamerson is up to his typical trash talking self... if only i could meet you in person... i think it'd be a great conversation!!!!!

Why? You have trouble expressing yourself with words?


All that does is tell you how awful our defense was last year. A safety should NEVER be leading your team in tackles! It should ALWAYS be a linebacker. Of course, even with the tons of chances for tackles he had, thanks our horrible front 7, he still whiffed on a ton of them.

If you make four tackles and miss three, you are a bad tackler. If you lead the team in tackles, and miss nine... It isn't as bad as a nine-play lowlight reel would suggest.

Just as Brett Favre is the all-time leader in thrown interceptions. More opportunities to make mistakes, will lead to more mistakes.

Pollard is not "bad" in coverage, and he is not "bad" at tackling.

Say what you want. I have seen him get "beat" in coverage several times. Most of those plays occured while he was clearly helping out a truly horrible coverage Safety, in Page. (Who is also one of the worst tacklers I have seen play the game, and I have been watching Chiefs DBs for a very long time.)

But Pollard gets called out for poor coverage, when he is unable to do his and Page's jobs, both.

But, even if you refuse to budge on his ability to play SS, I haven't seen anyone argue against his abilities on ST. So noone is arguing that he has no value to this team.

Now, the next issue is attitude. And yet we continue to overpay Larry Johnson, after years of proven bad attitude, while Pollard seems to have displayed a bad attitude once. Or, maybe even over the course of one lone preseason. (A pretty bad one, that would test alot of wills, at that.)

While I hate taking the position of defending Damien Macintosh....

Are we really deep enough to make that move?

Also, I have seen it over and over again, about how the JA trade netted us a franchise OT. Could someone please point that guy out?

The only OT that could have been considered a result of that trade would be Branden Albert. And I haven't seen anything impressive from him yet. (Key word: yet.) I didn't see him 'blowing up' his side of the line to open up running lanes, or providing sustained passer protection last season. Annointing him as a franchise OT is, in my opinion, premature, at the very least.

While I don't dislike this staff as much as I did Herm (after three years), they have still done absolutely everything opposite of what I see to be beneficial to this team.

Hiring Haley... Keeping LJ... Not drafting O-line... Killing excellent draft position value... Benching Derrick Johnson... Cutting Pollard... Firing Gailey... Over-paying for Cassel... Over-paying Cassel (yes, those are different)... Cutting Sackintosh, without a contingency plan... playing DT/DE's Hali and Mcbride at LB...

Well, I guess I am not entirely against the Gonzales trade. So it isn't absolutely every move they have made.

However, results are what matters. And we have yet to see what kind of results will come from all of this.

So, if you see me as being 'negative' about this staff, without having seen any results, it's probably because my current opinion of the decisions I am seeing is negative.

And, with two years of thunderstorms, and no sunshine showing yet, it should be pretty easy to understand me, and others, being a bit soggy/gloomy about things.

matthewschiefs
09-08-2009, 12:03 PM
Just an observation but Pollard has been on the block for 48 hours and cleared waivers. I wouldnt be suprised if their was a team or two in negotiations but regardless he didn't get snatched right up and might be that the other 31 teams saw what Haley saw.

Hope I didn't start another big fight but just wanted to point this out.

I am surprised that he did clear waviers. Maybe there is something up with him.

yashi
09-08-2009, 12:08 PM
I am surprised that he did clear waviers. Maybe there is something up with him.

yeah, I was wondering about this also.

chief31
09-08-2009, 12:30 PM
I don't think much of that, right now. I imagine he is just being selective. No need to jump directly on the first suitor that walks up.

I mean who wants to go from a 2-14 team to The Detroit Lions, if they can find somewhere else to go?

And from another teams perspective, they are probably figuring that hey will be able to get a better deal, if they let him through waivers.

But then, one never knows. There could be something more to it. Time will tell.

Seek
09-08-2009, 12:52 PM
Pollard is a drum. He gets beat very often. Every team has a hard hitting safey that can cover and get beats every other play and misses tackles.

There is a reason that so many on this site wanted to convert Pollard to LB. Me note being one of them.

Pollard is a decent back up, and special teams player. I am not happy he was cut simply for his depth and special teams ability. I am glad the team is looking for a different starter. Haley is the first coach that I know associated with the Chiefs who actually looks for cut day to improve their team. Generally speaking, most teams would rather go with their own guys who were with them in camp instead of looking for second chance deals.

jmlamerson
09-08-2009, 03:14 PM
There was a truckload of talent there. Not a truckload of youth. But far from as barren as you like to suggest.

Even with a completely empty roster, Herm should have been able to field a decent team in three years.

I am off Herms back now. In fact, I would have preferred to have kept him for one more season than to getting Haley.

But he did a poor job here.

And I will agree that there was more to build with in place for this staff, than there was for Herm.



Bill Wennington was a part of three NBA championships. But I think everyone knows that Micheal Jordan was the one that carried him there. Just as Bellichick has carried so many.



Why? You have trouble expressing yourself with words?



If you make four tackles and miss three, you are a bad tackler. If you lead the team in tackles, and miss nine... It isn't as bad as a nine-play lowlight reel would suggest.

Just as Brett Favre is the all-time leader in thrown interceptions. More opportunities to make mistakes, will lead to more mistakes.

Pollard is not "bad" in coverage, and he is not "bad" at tackling.

Say what you want. I have seen him get "beat" in coverage several times. Most of those plays occured while he was clearly helping out a truly horrible coverage Safety, in Page. (Who is also one of the worst tacklers I have seen play the game, and I have been watching Chiefs DBs for a very long time.)

But Pollard gets called out for poor coverage, when he is unable to do his and Page's jobs, both.

But, even if you refuse to budge on his ability to play SS, I haven't seen anyone argue against his abilities on ST. So noone is arguing that he has no value to this team.

Now, the next issue is attitude. And yet we continue to overpay Larry Johnson, after years of proven bad attitude, while Pollard seems to have displayed a bad attitude once. Or, maybe even over the course of one lone preseason. (A pretty bad one, that would test alot of wills, at that.)

While I hate taking the position of defending Damien Macintosh....

Are we really deep enough to make that move?

Also, I have seen it over and over again, about how the JA trade netted us a franchise OT. Could someone please point that guy out?

The only OT that could have been considered a result of that trade would be Branden Albert. And I haven't seen anything impressive from him yet. (Key word: yet.) I didn't see him 'blowing up' his side of the line to open up running lanes, or providing sustained passer protection last season. Annointing him as a franchise OT is, in my opinion, premature, at the very least.

While I don't dislike this staff as much as I did Herm (after three years), they have still done absolutely everything opposite of what I see to be beneficial to this team.

Hiring Haley... Keeping LJ... Not drafting O-line... Killing excellent draft position value... Benching Derrick Johnson... Cutting Pollard... Firing Gailey... Over-paying for Cassel... Over-paying Cassel (yes, those are different)... Cutting Sackintosh, without a contingency plan... playing DT/DE's Hali and Mcbride at LB...

Well, I guess I am not entirely against the Gonzales trade. So it isn't absolutely every move they have made.

However, results are what matters. And we have yet to see what kind of results will come from all of this.

So, if you see me as being 'negative' about this staff, without having seen any results, it's probably because my current opinion of the decisions I am seeing is negative.

And, with two years of thunderstorms, and no sunshine showing yet, it should be pretty easy to understand me, and others, being a bit soggy/gloomy about things.

While I disagree with most of that (the Chiefs would be 0-16 in 2009 if Herm were coach, O'Callaghan was our contingency for MacIntosh, we got a bargain in Cassel as both the Bucs and Broncos would have given a 1st rounder, we picked up Goff, Alleman, Ndukwe, and O'Callaghan to bulk up the OL, Pollard is terrible in coverage, and Jackson was by far the better choice than Curry or Monroe), I share your worries about Albert.

Everyone forgets how poorly Albert did before we went to the spread. I want to see him do well in a pro style offense for a few weeks before I'm convinced he's anything more than a great guard and average LT.

jmlamerson
09-08-2009, 03:16 PM
I don't think much of that, right now. I imagine he is just being selective. No need to jump directly on the first suitor that walks up.

I mean who wants to go from a 2-14 team to The Detroit Lions, if they can find somewhere else to go?

And from another teams perspective, they are probably figuring that hey will be able to get a better deal, if they let him through waivers.

But then, one never knows. There could be something more to it. Time will tell.

We were offering Pollard for a 7th rounder prior to cutting him. No one was interested.

chief31
09-08-2009, 03:24 PM
We were offering Pollard for a 7th rounder prior to cutting him. No one was interested.

If I own a team am interested, I am unlikey to help you out, by giving you something for a player that I suspect you will cut.

Especially if I feel that I can pay less for him on the open market.

But again, there could be something to it. I just don't see enough to make me think that yet.

If he has any kind of physical situation going on, then I won't dislike the move so much.

yashi
09-08-2009, 03:25 PM
All I know is if Eric Berry is playing SS for us next season nobody will even remember Pollard since we'll have Ed Reed 2.0 in center field.

matthewschiefs
09-08-2009, 03:56 PM
We were offering Pollard for a 7th rounder prior to cutting him. No one was interested.

Wow I wonder whats happend with him hes a player that I thought was showing promise. This is realy surpriseing.

DT14PRIEST
09-08-2009, 04:44 PM
If I own a team am interested, I am unlikey to help you out, by giving you something for a player that I suspect you will cut.

Especially if I feel that I can pay less for him on the open market.

But again, there could be something to it. I just don't see enough to make me think that yet.

If he has any kind of physical situation going on, then I won't dislike the move so much.

Don't you think that if you're expressing interest in a player then more likely then not another team is as well? Wouldn't you then want grab that player before you could test that theory for a relatively low asking price?

All things aside I read more into finding out Pollard's league value was much lower then what everyone thought it was if the Chiefs couldn't grab a 7th round pick for him and more so after the fact that he passed through waivers unclaimed.

He doesn't posses the right to not sign with a team that might potentially claim him off the wire only the right to become a FA at the end of the current year.

Three7s
09-08-2009, 07:50 PM
If I own a team am interested, I am unlikey to help you out, by giving you something for a player that I suspect you will cut.

Especially if I feel that I can pay less for him on the open market.

But again, there could be something to it. I just don't see enough to make me think that yet.

If he has any kind of physical situation going on, then I won't dislike the move so much.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't hear of a single team even INTERESTED in Pollard, whether the less, claiming him.

jmlamerson
09-08-2009, 08:01 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't hear of a single team even INTERESTED in Pollard, whether the less, claiming him.

Yeah, every hour that Pollard goes without a new team is a further sign that Chiefs fans (including me) overrated him. I really did think prior to training camp that a new DC and HC would be able to improve his coverage skills to the extent that he's be an awesome 3-4 SS. I appear to be wrong. Teams are seeming to think his high tackle numbers in 2008 were more a sign of our lousy front seven than his skills.

Maybe texaschief is wrong, and cutting Pollard wasn't the worst thing to happen to the Chiefs since 2005.

Coach
09-08-2009, 11:14 PM
All that does is tell you how awful our defense was last year. A safety should NEVER be leading your team in tackles! It should ALWAYS be a linebacker. Of course, even with the tons of chances for tackles he had, thanks our horrible front 7, he still whiffed on a ton of them.

Funny. I was thinking the same thing. Have faith guys.