Observations From The Offseason

Hi everyone,

I suppose I should introduce myself in the other subforum, but I think we'll be alright. Longtime KC fan here, but this franchise has done NOTHING in FA to get better. I can buy the build through the draft mentality, but when you bring in absolutely no one to improve the team you are going to be in some serious trouble. Here are some of the things we have all seen so far:

-We have done nothing to upgrade at any position this offseason despite losing some role players. In fact, you could easily argue we are worse in the personnel department.

-"Build through the draft." It seems like everyone wants to do it Seattle's way. That's fine, I get it, but even teams like Seattle and SF brought over some FA and made some trades to improve their team. Marshawn Lynch, Justin Smith, Ahmad Brooks etc..

- The contracts for some of these players is absolutely ludicrous. You are going to pay Dwayne Bowe nearly 9 million dollars a year? Fasano nearly 3 million, Colquitt 3 million, Chase Daniel 2.3 etc.. Very irresponsible spending imo.

Our core guys are getting old. Derrik Johnson is getting there, Tamba Hali, Alex Smith, Jamaal Charles aren't getting any younger. We can't wait until they are past their primes to start winning. This year won't be like last, we won't be playing an easy schedule.

Why can't we bring veterans to play while our young guys learn and get accustomed to the NFL? We have Sanders Commings in at FS, who didn't even play last year.

First off, welcome to the forum NWO.

The answer to a lot of your questions/concerns is simply money. The Chiefs have little cap space this year, if any. So that leaves the draft, and the current rules for rookie contracts that make it a little more team-friendly to draft as opposed to blowing $$$'s on free agents. It does suck because it's roster management via the accounting department, but it is what it is.

Definitely agree with you about some players getting older, and some that are just overpayed vs. the performance we got from them last year (D. Bowe), but Dorsey is playing the hand he's been dealt. He's also just starting year two, and going by the results of last year (going from 2-14 to 11-5) have got a lot more faith in him than I did in Pioli. The sky isn't falling.

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Originally Posted by NWO

Hi everyone,

I suppose I should introduce myself in the other subforum, but I think we'll be alright. Longtime KC fan here, but this franchise has done NOTHING in FA to get better. I can buy the build through the draft mentality, but when you bring in absolutely no one to improve the team you are going to be in some serious trouble. Here are some of the things we have all seen so far:

-We have done nothing to upgrade at any position this offseason despite losing some role players. In fact, you could easily argue we are worse in the personnel department.

-"Build through the draft." It seems like everyone wants to do it Seattle's way. That's fine, I get it, but even teams like Seattle and SF brought over some FA and made some trades to improve their team. Marshawn Lynch, Justin Smith, Ahmad Brooks etc..

- The contracts for some of these players is absolutely ludicrous. You are going to pay Dwayne Bowe nearly 9 million dollars a year? Fasano nearly 3 million, Colquitt 3 million, Chase Daniel 2.3 etc.. Very irresponsible spending imo.

Our core guys are getting old. Derrik Johnson is getting there, Tamba Hali, Alex Smith, Jamaal Charles aren't getting any younger. We can't wait until they are past their primes to start winning. This year won't be like last, we won't be playing an easy schedule.

Why can't we bring veterans to play while our young guys learn and get accustomed to the NFL? We have Sanders Commings in at FS, who didn't even play last year.

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Because Pioli screwed us royally, now Reid/Dorsey are trying to fix it the best way they can. Can't bring in veterans with no cap room

First let me say welcome to Chiefscrowd. Names Matt and I have a few questions for you just as I've had for the others who have been down on the offseason. Some I've been waiting for answers on

1. WHAT DID WE LOSE THAT IS HARD TO REPLACE?
You said we lost some role players and I agree. We brought in some guys. True those guys are not going to be all stars but they are not going to be asked to be allstars. They are going to be asked to do some little things to fill in the role players. We also still have yet the draft to get better as well. Consider this the best player we lost I think most would agree was Albert. He was far to often not able to play due to his back so even our biggest lost wasnt on the field a good bit last year.

Dorsey is a gm as you stated who likes to build through the draft. We did sign some vets. You might not think highly of them that's fine they haven't proven anything yet in KC or anywhere else. But we did bring some guys in. I don't have great expectations but do think that they can add some little things to the team. But these are going to be the types of guys that Dorsey brings in. I've said this whole offseason that what is going to decided Dorsey's fate as a GM is how he drafts. Doing it his style you HAVE to draft well or he will be like Pioli and looking for anther job soon. I'm not ready to crown Dorsey yet. But I've yet to see one thing that says he's anther Pioli.

Now let me ask you have you considered the fallowing things.
1. Progression. We all know that there should be some with the rookies from a year ago. It's normal. But there also can be some with the vets in this case. One year ago at this time Andy Reid was a unknown to the vets. They didn't know what he would be asking them to do or how they would fit in with his system. He didn't know the team as well as he does now with a year under his belt he has some info on our players. He knows their good points and their weak points and has had a offseason to plan for such. If he did his job they should also take a step forward in his system and that will be helpful. Time will tell if he did his job in that regard but I've not seen anyone mention this.

2. The youth on this team. Last year this was the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. Where this team struggled a year ago was against playoff teams. It makes sense for a young team to be that way. The good thing was they outside of a real bad day against the Colts in the 1st matchup put up a fight. Many would say they beat the Chargers in the week 17 matchup. They were even competitive with Denver who won the AFC last year. This was NOT a team that got blown away by the good teams. They have to learn how to win. A lot of that will depend on Reid and how well he does his job.

I myself don't think anyone could say this team is a favorite to win it all. But I do think the doom and gloom some have is a overstatement. Of course I felt this in 2012 and that didn't work out so well but that was a different year. But as painful as the end to the season was in January their is some good that can come out of it. IF those who need to do their jobs well (Reid and his staff) this team can build off that painful ending and still be ok.

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Originally Posted by Justin5772002

Because Pioli screwed us royally, now Reid/Dorsey are trying to fix it the best way they can. Can't bring in veterans with no cap room

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How exactly did Pioli screw us? By giving Tamba Hali and Brandon Flowers deserved contracts that are now at the stage where all contracts end up -- cut or renegotiate? Eric Berry's contract was slotted, not Pioli's fault.

Did he overpay Dwayne Bowe, Chase Daniel, Donnie Avery or Anthony Fasano? Did he waste cap space keeping Branden Albert around when he knew he wasn't going to keep him? Did he leave Geoff Schwartz walk?

I was as glad as anybody that Pioli was waxed, but the Chiefs' cap issues are hardly something to fault him for.

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Originally Posted by Justin5772002

Because Pioli screwed us royally, now Reid/Dorsey are trying to fix it the best way they can. Can't bring in veterans with no cap room

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No, it's been Dorsey with his irresponsible spending that has cost us in FA:

Bowe- 9 mil

Daniel- 2.5 mil

Fasano- 3 mil

Colquitt- 3 mil

Devito- 3.2 mil

This is absolutely ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by matthewschiefs

First let me say welcome to Chiefscrowd. Names Matt and I have a few questions for you just as I've had for the others who have been down on the offseason. Some I've been waiting for answers on

1. WHAT DID WE LOSE THAT IS HARD TO REPLACE?
You said we lost some role players and I agree. We brought in some guys. True those guys are not going to be all stars but they are not going to be asked to be allstars. They are going to be asked to do some little things to fill in the role players. We also still have yet the draft to get better as well. Consider this the best player we lost I think most would agree was Albert. He was far to often not able to play due to his back so even our biggest lost wasnt on the field a good bit last year.

Dorsey is a gm as you stated who likes to build through the draft. We did sign some vets. You might not think highly of them that's fine they haven't proven anything yet in KC or anywhere else. But we did bring some guys in. I don't have great expectations but do think that they can add some little things to the team. But these are going to be the types of guys that Dorsey brings in. I've said this whole offseason that what is going to decided Dorsey's fate as a GM is how he drafts. Doing it his style you HAVE to draft well or he will be like Pioli and looking for anther job soon. I'm not ready to crown Dorsey yet. But I've yet to see one thing that says he's anther Pioli.

Now let me ask you have you considered the fallowing things.
1. Progression. We all know that there should be some with the rookies from a year ago. It's normal. But there also can be some with the vets in this case. One year ago at this time Andy Reid was a unknown to the vets. They didn't know what he would be asking them to do or how they would fit in with his system. He didn't know the team as well as he does now with a year under his belt he has some info on our players. He knows their good points and their weak points and has had a offseason to plan for such. If he did his job they should also take a step forward in his system and that will be helpful. Time will tell if he did his job in that regard but I've not seen anyone mention this.

2. The youth on this team. Last year this was the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. Where this team struggled a year ago was against playoff teams. It makes sense for a young team to be that way. The good thing was they outside of a real bad day against the Colts in the 1st matchup put up a fight. Many would say they beat the Chargers in the week 17 matchup. They were even competitive with Denver who won the AFC last year. This was NOT a team that got blown away by the good teams. They have to learn how to win. A lot of that will depend on Reid and how well he does his job.

I myself don't think anyone could say this team is a favorite to win it all. But I do think the doom and gloom some have is a overstatement. Of course I felt this in 2012 and that didn't work out so well but that was a different year. But as painful as the end to the season was in January their is some good that can come out of it. IF those who need to do their jobs well (Reid and his staff) this team can build off that painful ending and still be ok.

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The point is we haven't gotten better at ANY position and we won't be playing an easy schedule this year. So far, Dorsey's draft has looked a lot like 2009.

We don't even have a second round pick this year which is why we should have added some FA, but due to his irresponsible spending we are watching an off season that was similar to the 4 off seasons under Pioli.

Face it, if we only rely on the draft most of our core guys will be too old to compete. We need FA to help us and so far Dorsey hasn't done jack.

Dorsey has no money to do anything with this year.

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Originally Posted by ctchiefsfan

Dorsey has no money to do anything with this year.

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Because he has blown it all on stupid contracts.

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Originally Posted by NWO

No, it's been Dorsey with his irresponsible spending that has cost us in FA:

Bowe- 9 mil

Daniel- 2.5 mil

Fasano- 3 mil

Colquitt- 3 mil

Devito- 3.2 mil

This is absolutely ridiculous.

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None of these contracts are really that bad. This time of the year if they wanted to create cap space to sign someone it's not that hard to do so. But as I've said Dorsey just not going to dip that much into the FA market he's a draft guy. He just has to draft well.

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Originally Posted by NWO

The point is we haven't gotten better at ANY position and we won't be playing an easy schedule this year. So far, Dorsey's draft has looked a lot like 2009.

We don't even have a second round pick this year which is why we should have added some FA, but due to his irresponsible spending we are watching an off season that was similar to the 4 off seasons under Pioli.

Face it, if we only rely on the draft most of our core guys will be too old to compete. We need FA to help us and so far Dorsey hasn't done jack.

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I think right now we are not far off from where we were a year ago and still have to draft. I still would love to know what we lost that was so great. We didn't bring in anyone great true but we also didn't lose anyone great. If this team is going to do well Dorsey is going to have to find a couple of rookies that can come in and help some. That's the task he has.

As for the 2009 draft comment. Dorsey didn't have a lot to work with in the draft. This past years draft was known to be one of the weakest draft in years. If you are on any other forums the hot guy was Geno Smith many wanted to draft him just so "we can finally draft a QB" I don't think many would still want him. I'm not going to worry about that draft just yet but will be keeping an eye on this years draft for sure

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Originally Posted by NWO

The point is we haven't gotten better at ANY position and we won't be playing an easy schedule this year. So far, Dorsey's draft has looked a lot like 2009.

We don't even have a second round pick this year which is why we should have added some FA, but due to his irresponsible spending we are watching an off season that was similar to the 4 off seasons under Pioli.

Face it, if we only rely on the draft most of our core guys will be too old to compete. We need FA to help us and so far Dorsey hasn't done jack.

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Not even close. The problem was, the 2013 draft class got bit by the injury bug, except for C Eric Kush and nobody could have foreseen that. And there are no comparisons to drafting Fisher at #1, as opposed to Pioli taking Jackson at #3 in 2009. Fisher was rated by everybody as a top-5 draftee, whereas Jackson wasn't rated in the top 10 by anybody and was a major reach and the rest of those selections in that 2009 were pure garbage and one could easily see that before those players ever took the field. By contrast, Dorsey's selections in rounds 3 through 7, at least they made sense and there's still a chance for them to make an impact in 2014.

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Originally Posted by NWO

Because he has blown it all on stupid contracts.

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$20.7 million on 5 players including Bowe. An average of less than $4.2 million per player including one of the highest paid players on the team. With a budget of $2.1 million for each player on the 53, that's doing pretty damned well. Daniel, Fasano, DeVito and one of the best punters in football...all for an average of $2.93 million each. That's doing pretty well. When you take into account that one of the players is a pretty serviceable backup quarterback it starts to look like Dorsey is doing damned well. Short track record admittedly, but I see nothing to complain about in what Dorsey has done so far.

Bowe is the question mark of course, but Dorsey pretty much HAD to sign Bowe. There wasn't much choice in the matter. Bowe certainly didn't live up to expectations last year, but the flip side to that coin is that Bowe cost us just $4 million in cap space last year. He is going to cost us a TON of cash this year ($12 million) but if he doesn't greatly improve his game this year we can get rid of him next year and free up $3.5 million in cap space. Nope....I can't complain too much about the contract Dorsey gave Bowe.

Can't complain much about anything Dorsey has done so far.

Here is where the real money (cap space) is going this year.....

Eric Berry....$11.6 million.

Tamba Hali......$11.5 million.

Brandon Flowers $10.5 million.

Alex Smith....$8 million

Eric Fisher......$5 million

$46.6 million for 5 players (over 35% of total cap space)....an average of $9.32 million each. And Dorsey had no say in negotiating any of those contracts. (Smith's money was set as soon as we traded for him and Fisher's money is pretty much set by the league.) So $33.6 million for Hali, Flowers and Berry ($11.2 million each avaerage) OVER 25% of our entire cap space for 3 players. And Dorsey had no say in any of those 3 contracts or Smith and Fisher.

That is where all the cap space has gone. Not on little $3 and $4 million dollar contracts like those you named.

Cap numbers from overthecap.com

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Originally Posted by matthewschiefs

None of these contracts are really that bad. This time of the year if they wanted to create cap space to sign someone it's not that hard to do so. But as I've said Dorsey just not going to dip that much into the FA market he's a draft guy. He just has to draft well.



I think right now we are not far off from where we were a year ago and still have to draft. I still would love to know what we lost that was so great. We didn't bring in anyone great true but we also didn't lose anyone great. If this team is going to do well Dorsey is going to have to find a couple of rookies that can come in and help some. That's the task he has.

As for the 2009 draft comment. Dorsey didn't have a lot to work with in the draft. This past years draft was known to be one of the weakest draft in years. If you are on any other forums the hot guy was Geno Smith many wanted to draft him just so "we can finally draft a QB" I don't think many would still want him. I'm not going to worry about that draft just yet but will be keeping an eye on this years draft for sure

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He had the number 1 freaking pick last year and look who we got.

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Originally Posted by ctchiefsfan

$20.7 million on 5 players including Bowe. An average of less than $4.2 million per player including one of the highest paid players on the team. With a budget of $2.1 million for each player on the 53, that's doing pretty damned well. Daniel, Fasano, DeVito and one of the best punters in football...all for an average of $2.93 million each. That's doing pretty well. When you take into account that one of the players is a pretty serviceable backup quarterback it starts to look like Dorsey is doing damned well. Short track record admittedly, but I see nothing to complain about in what Dorsey has done so far.

Bowe is the question mark of course, but Dorsey pretty much HAD to sign Bowe. There wasn't much choice in the matter. Bowe certainly didn't live up to expectations last year, but the flip side to that coin is that Bowe cost us just $4 million in cap space last year. He is going to cost us a TON of cash this year ($12 million) but if he doesn't greatly improve his game this year we can get rid of him next year and free up $3.5 million in cap space. Nope....I can't complain too much about the contract Dorsey gave Bowe.

Can't complain much about anything Dorsey has done so far.

Here is where the real money (cap space) is going this year.....

Eric Berry....$11.6 million.

Tamba Hali......$11.5 million.

Brandon Flowers $10.5 million.

Alex Smith....$8 million

Eric Fisher......$5 million

$46.6 million for 5 players (over 35% of total cap space)....an average of $9.32 million each. And Dorsey had no say in negotiating any of those contracts. (Smith's money was set as soon as we traded for him and Fisher's money is pretty much set by the league.) So $33.6 million for Hali, Flowers and Berry ($11.2 million each avaerage) OVER 25% of our entire cap space for 3 players. And Dorsey had no say in any of those 3 contracts or Smith and Fisher.

That is where all the cap space has gone. Not on little $3 and $4 million dollar contracts like those you named.

Cap numbers from overthecap.com

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He didn't have to resign Bowe, especially at that price. He leads everyone with 12 million dollars against the cap this year.

Most of those guys you listed are players we need. There is no reason we should be paying a punter, fasano and a backup quarterback almost 9 million dollars. With that price we could have acquired anyone we wanted this off season or a group of veterans to fill key roles.

It's insane.

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Originally Posted by brdempsey69

Not even close. The problem was, the 2013 draft class got bit by the injury bug, except for C Eric Kush and nobody could have foreseen that. And there are no comparisons to drafting Fisher at #1, as opposed to Pioli taking Jackson at #3 in 2009. Fisher was rated by everybody as a top-5 draftee, whereas Jackson wasn't rated in the top 10 by anybody and was a major reach and the rest of those selections in that 2009 were pure garbage and one could easily see that before those players ever took the field. By contrast, Dorsey's selections in rounds 3 through 7, at least they made sense and there's still a chance for them to make an impact in 2014.

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Please don't start praising an injury prone, unproven tackle who looked awful this past year.

I don't even want to hear it.

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Originally Posted by NWO

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He had the number 1 freaking pick last year and look who we got.

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He got a OT that has good potential if he lives up to that potential it will be worth the pick. But there was no big prospect out there in last years draft it was a weak draft class. We had horrible timing in getting the 1st pick what do you want Dorsey to do get in his time machine go get joe Montana as a prospect rename him Moe and draft him

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Originally Posted by matthewschiefs

He got a OT that has good potential if he lives up to that potential it will be worth the pick. But there was no big prospect out there in last years draft it was a weak draft class. We had horrible timing in getting the 1st pick what do you want Dorsey to do get in his time machine go get joe Montana as a prospect rename him Moe and draft him

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Potential based on what? He was rated almost dead last in game by game performance.

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Originally Posted by NWO

Please don't start praising an injury prone, unproven tackle who looked awful this past year.

I don't even want to hear it.

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Fisher was pretty bad at the start of the year but by the end he had progressed and wasn't nearly as bad. He has added weight this offseason which should help. I have questioned how they have handled fisher but he wasn't as bad as many think. In fact someone here I don't recall here posted a chart near the end of last season showing that teams were getting more pressure against our left side (where the so called All pro tackle was) other then our right. I have questions about our line and Fisher no doubt IMO they are setting him up to fail but I'm hoping I'm wrong. But lets not write Fisher off just yet. He did show progress last year. That's about normal for rookies

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Originally Posted by NWO

Please don't start praising an injury prone, unproven tackle who looked awful this past year.

I don't even want to hear it.

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Don't care what you want to hear. The reality is there were times he did have struggles, but so did the rest of the guys on the O-Line. In his last five games Fisher didn't look awful & didn't get called for one single penalty and only allowed his QB to get touched 3 times. I know that because I watched him closely via NFL Game Rewind. That's not singing praises to to him, that's what really happened on the football field.

On the other hand, you probably watched the games one time, only followed the football and only noticed Fisher whenever there was a bad play that stood out & of course, are now magnifying it because he wasn't your personal choice of who you wanted drafted.

By the same token, Albert was unproven at LT going into the 2010 draft, and yet, I'll bet you were one of those singing that stupid song of "we don't need to draft Russell Okung because we have Branden Albert, so let's draft Eric Berry".

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Originally Posted by NWO

Potential based on what?

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Potential based him being lauded by just about everybody and their brother that he was the best player on the field during the week of the 2013 Senior Bowl.

Potential based on his size, footspeed, and athleticism.

Potential based on his improvement over the 2nd half of the season, in spite of playing out of position & playing hurt in his first year in the NFL.

Potential based on the fact that he went against a very good series of opponents & wasn't the revolving door that guys like O'Callaghan, Richardson, and Winston would've been and were.

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Originally Posted by NWO

He was rated almost dead last in game by game performance.

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According to whom? Your grandma? If you're basing that off PFF ratings, then you don't have any credibility, as their ratings regarding O-Lineman are pure garbage & never make mention of the series of opponents that these players go up against. The overhead camera via NFL Game Rewind trumps any PFF trash and I know for a fact Fisher didn't look awful in his last 5 games.

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Originally Posted by NWO

He didn't have to resign Bowe, especially at that price. He leads everyone with 12 million dollars against the cap this year.

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Yes, he did. There were no receivers of Bowe's caliber in FA and the Chiefs didn't have any other receivers on their roster & I believe they suspected Baldwin was not going to fit into Andy Reid's Offense. They could not just let him walk & the contracts of Vincent Jackson and Mike Wallace had driven the asking price up to get Bowe to stay. They also could not trade down and draft a receiver in round 1 in 2013, because nobody was trading up.

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Originally Posted by NWO

]He had the number 1 freaking pick last year and look who we got.

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Yup. He had the #1 pick in the weakest draft in decades.

Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali are older. But both of them earned every penny of their salaries last season. They haven't lost a step yet.

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Originally Posted by NWO

Please don't start praising an injury prone, unproven tackle who looked awful this past year.

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Couldn't agree more. Branden Albert was persona non grata throughout last season.

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I don't even want to hear it.

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Neither do we.

After what we went through in '12, and the improvements Clark, Reid and Dorsey made to this team in '13, I refuse to take a Chicken Little the-world-is-coming-to-an-end fantasy football mindset going into this season. Yeah, the schedule's tougher. Big woop. We didn't play one team last year that was a complete pushover, so what's new?

For all we know Dorsey might draft O-line after O-line, hell bent on giving Reid something to build on from here on out. Yeah, tackles don't make the highlight reels but they often pave the ways for the guys that do. For every great play you see there's usually two or three critical blocks made that allow it to happen.

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Originally Posted by Eydugstr

Couldn't agree more. Branden Albert was persona non grata throughout last season.



Neither do we.

After what we went through in '12, and the improvements Clark, Reid and Dorsey made to this team in '13, I refuse to take a Chicken Little the-world-is-coming-to-an-end fantasy football mindset going into this season. Yeah, the schedule's tougher. Big woop. We didn't play one team last year that was a complete pushover, so what's new?

For all we know Dorsey might draft O-line after O-line, hell bent on giving Reid something to build on from here on out. Yeah, tackles don't make the highlight reels but they often pave the ways for the guys that do. For every great play you see there's usually two or three critical blocks made that allow it to happen.

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Nice one there. Albert was always hurt and wasnt as good as advertised. He is a good but not great. Now I would have loved to move him to guard but theres no way he would switch positions.