Cassel's Stats (This years version)

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09-19-2012, 08:30 PM
LlamaNinja

Cassel's Stats (This years version)

MATT CASSEL: YEAR 4 - ESSAY - BY THE NUMBERS - Arrowhead Pride
09-19-2012, 09:06 PM
2010chiefs

WOW. Just WOW! Nuff said!
09-19-2012, 09:08 PM
LlamaNinja

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2010chiefs

WOW. Just WOW! Nuff said!

Yeah I didnt know that the few +.500 wins he had were from teams that didnt make the playoffs. EVEN if those loses werent directly on him... he at least was leading the team in those poor loses.
09-19-2012, 09:09 PM
#58ChiefsFan

That was pretty depressing
09-19-2012, 09:10 PM
AussieChiefsFan

Ouch
09-19-2012, 09:11 PM
LlamaNinja

Do you think any other team (besides the cardinals) would hold onto a QB that long? I mean he worked with Weis (until he was figured out then we got destroyed) maybe Pioli needs to write him a blank check and get him back here so we can at least finish .500.... hehe
09-19-2012, 11:12 PM
aasimon

Cassel is the poster-child for why no team should invest heavily in another team's backup and expect them to be a starter.
09-20-2012, 02:45 AM
LlamaNinja

Quote:

Originally Posted by aasimon

Cassel is the poster-child for why no team should invest heavily in another team's backup and expect them to be a starter.

Though Matt Flynn and Kevin Kolb are funny to watch as well
09-20-2012, 07:59 AM
reded

Apparently someone has dropped the ball over at One Arrowhead Drive (pun intended). Can we get these numbers over to Pioli ASAP?
09-20-2012, 08:21 AM
chiefnut

Have we not learned about signing other teams back ups??
ie..bono, grrrrrbak,etc...
09-20-2012, 10:04 AM
Hayvern

Those numbers are unfortunate. Sorry gang, I guess I would have more to say if I was not just so beaten down by this team.

I can't even watch this weekend.
09-20-2012, 10:24 AM
reded

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayvern

Those numbers are unfortunate. Sorry gang, I guess I would have more to say if I was not just so beaten down by this team.

I can't even watch this weekend.

Oh I'll watch. I'll get up bright and early, hang my flag, prepare my feast and sit down to watch with enthusiasm and an optimistic outlook.

Halfway through the first quarter, after we've had a fumble and an interception which lead to 14 points for NO plus a good long drive in which they gash our defense for 80 yds in 7 plays, I'll begin to feel sick, turn the TV off and go find something productive to do.
09-20-2012, 10:35 AM
Sick Dog

Problem is he is our starter at least this season...and it gets worse if it we move to the backups:sign0085:
09-20-2012, 10:51 AM
rbedgood

Quote:

Originally Posted by aasimon

Cassel is the poster-child for why no team should invest heavily in another team's backup and expect them to be a starter.

While there is truth to this, there are also cases like Matt Schaub (Falcons to Texans), Matt Hasselbeck (Packers to Seahawks), Mark Brunell (Packers to Jaguars) and Aaron Brooks (Packers to Saints) that worked out.

Not to say it works out in a good percentage, but cases like Schaub are why teams keep trying.
09-20-2012, 12:53 PM
doobs_05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbedgood

While there is truth to this, there are also cases like Matt Schaub (Falcons to Texans), Matt Hasselbeck (Packers to Seahawks), Mark Brunell (Packers to Jaguars) and Aaron Brooks (Packers to Saints) that worked out.

Not to say it works out in a good percentage, but cases like Schaub are why teams keep trying.

Farve to the Packers, I think that was the most successful.
09-20-2012, 03:05 PM
LlamaNinja

Quote:

Originally Posted by doobs_05

Farve to the Packers, I think that was the most successful.

I didnt know that... I looked it up seems he was traded for a 1st round pick that got them Tony Smith... hehe
09-20-2012, 05:16 PM
jap1

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbedgood

While there is truth to this, there are also cases like Matt Schaub (Falcons to Texans), Matt Hasselbeck (Packers to Seahawks), Mark Brunell (Packers to Jaguars) and Aaron Brooks (Packers to Saints) that worked out.

Not to say it works out in a good percentage, but cases like Schaub are why teams keep trying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doobs_05

Farve to the Packers, I think that was the most successful.

Other than Favre, I wouldnt call those other ones "successful." Brunell had some success, but I was never really that impressed by him. Hasselbeck has never been able to stay healthy enough to take his team anywhere significant. Brooks always seemed like a game manager type as well.

Jury is still out on Schaub. He seems like a great QB, but it seemed like the Texans did fine without him for part of last year.
09-20-2012, 06:27 PM
nigeriannightmare

Quote:

Originally Posted by jap1

Other than Favre, I wouldnt call those other ones "successful." Brunell had some success, but I was never really that impressed by him. Hasselbeck has never been able to stay healthy enough to take his team anywhere significant. Brooks always seemed like a game manager type as well.

Jury is still out on Schaub. He seems like a great QB, but it seemed like the Texans did fine without him for part of last year.

The texans came on strong last season with TJ yates playing qb, they get to the afc championship if not farther is schaub is playing.
09-20-2012, 06:37 PM
N TX Dave

I would say Len Dawson who was a back up for two teams and was released before he was picked up would be a good example of one teams backup going to another and doing okay.
09-21-2012, 02:03 AM
LlamaNinja

Quote:

Originally Posted by N TX Dave

I would say Len Dawson who was a back up for two teams and was released before he was picked up would be a good example of one teams backup going to another and doing okay.

Is it a problem that you can really name only one success story ROUGHLY every decade. TO me that isnt that great, the guys enter the league as a backup for a reason
09-21-2012, 04:32 PM
doobs_05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jap1

Other than Favre, I wouldnt call those other ones "successful." Brunell had some success, but I was never really that impressed by him. Hasselbeck has never been able to stay healthy enough to take his team anywhere significant. Brooks always seemed like a game manager type as well.

Jury is still out on Schaub. He seems like a great QB, but it seemed like the Texans did fine without him for part of last year.

Didn't he take them to the super bowl?
09-21-2012, 04:43 PM
chief31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LlamaNinja

Is it a problem that you can really name only one success story ROUGHLY every decade. TO me that isnt that great, the guys enter the league as a backup for a reason

Tom Brady... Steve Young... Rich Cannon...

No to mention the list above.

It is not the number one way to find a star. But it is more Successful than what most give credit for.

A good case could be made for guys like Alex Smith, who had long since been deemed a backup, and Aaron Rodgers, who spent several years as a backup.
09-21-2012, 05:29 PM
LlamaNinja

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief31

Tom Brady... Steve Young... Rich Cannon...

No to mention the list above.

It is not the number one way to find a star. But it is more Successful than what most give credit for.

A good case could be made for guys like Alex Smith, who had long since been deemed a backup, and Aaron Rodgers, who spent several years as a backup.

and Kurt Warner... but that is 4 out of how many? Still not a good ratio.
09-21-2012, 05:47 PM
LlamaNinja

Here is the only thing I could find about the subject that seemed reliable...
NFL: How many NFL backup quarterbacks went on to win a Super Bowl? - Quora
09-21-2012, 06:56 PM
chief31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LlamaNinja

and Kurt Warner... but that is 4 out of how many? Still not a good ratio.

There have been far too many QBs who were backups for years before becoming starters and having success.

Whatever the actual ratio, it is not as bad as what people seem to think.

Rather Matt Cassel turns into Tom Brady, or Bodies Croyle,it is not a horrible plan to try and turn strong backups into starters.

This team was designed to keep scores low and use a power running game to control the games.

When the defense falls apart, the team abandons what they are designed for and plays some game that they are not built for.

The QB is not what is wrong wig this team.
09-21-2012, 07:31 PM
2010chiefs

The plan is wrong because it's not working. The plan is what it is because of the QB that we have.
09-21-2012, 08:31 PM
#58ChiefsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2010chiefs

The plan is wrong because it's not working. The plan is what it is because of the QB that we have.

+1

Something's going to have to give.
09-21-2012, 08:59 PM
bricooper78

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief31

This team was designed to keep scores low and use a power running game to control the games.

When the defense falls apart, the team abandons what they are designed for and plays some game that they are not built for.

The QB is not what is wrong wig this team.

I agree the defense has fallen apart!!!
--but--
*Former Cassel backer here disagreeing.*

We didn't draft these WR simply due to their run blocking ability.

We have, on paper anyway, a dynamic offense that can run, either as power (Hillis), finesse/speed (Charles), or 3 or 4 WR sets, with gadget back DMC, this Wylie kid, not to mention a couple pretty good TE...

Every one of those players rely on one player.

That player is UNDERACHIEVING to the point of failure.

This offense shouldn't have to power run, there is enough there that we should be able to score, nearly at will. Why can't we do that?
That is our game-winning and season saving question. I have seen teams win for the last 10 years with defense that hasn't played any better than ours has the last 2 games.. anyone remember the Rams???? They were certainly not the 2nd coming of the steel curtain lol
09-21-2012, 11:03 PM
jap1

Quote:

Originally Posted by doobs_05

Didn't he take them to the super bowl?

You are right. I stand corrected. Never really thought of him as that great, but I guess I'm wrong on that point.
09-25-2012, 04:35 AM
rbedgood

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief31

Tom Brady... Steve Young... Rich Cannon...

No to mention the list above.

It is not the number one way to find a star. But it is more Successful than what most give credit for.

A good case could be made for guys like Alex Smith, who had long since been deemed a backup, and Aaron Rodgers, who spent several years as a backup.

I was trying to keep my list to back-ups that had been traded. Yeah nearly every HoF QB was a back-up at some point in their career. Hell, Joe Montana held the clipboard for Steve DeBerg for the 1979 season...Dan Marino was a back-up for about half a season (to David Woodley if I remember right). Drew Brees was a back-up to Doug Flutie (but only for part of a season I think).

But to the detractors, yes, the odds of a trade for a back-up QB turning out highly successful are low. For every Brett Favre there are a good number of Scott Mitchell type results. But frankly those odds aren't significantly different than drafting a QB. Think about it...for every Petyon Manning there's a Ryan Leaf. For every late round Tom Brady there are a few Danny Wuerffels.

The fact is that selecting and developing a quality QB is VERY difficult, and too many coaches are simply incapable of helping in that development process. To many owners and GMs have a revolving door of coaches and systems giving a young QB no chance to develop.

Cassel is no different. I think he is capable of being decent, but he has been put in a similar position that Alex Smith was for years with new coaches and/or systems each year, little to no consistency with personnel & O-line, etc. I'm not saying he is the answer, but I see a lot of parallels between this situation and many others where the QB turns out to not be the problem (see the Niners and Alex Smith as an example). Heck when he left San Diego many people thought Brees was the problem with the offense under-performing. Guessing they'd like to re-think that move?!