L.j. Keeper Or Problem

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09-01-2009, 07:02 PM
matthewschiefs

L.j. Keeper Or Problem

Ok I have read on this site and many others many chiefs fans bring up the idea of tradeing Larry Johson. I myself have at times said that I think that it might be best off for the chiefs if they got rid of L.J. Now that being said I have been seeing diffrent things from him lately. I know that on the field his preformace has not been outstanding. That can in at least part be put on the O line but off the field I think that there has been some good signs.

1st from what has been said publicly about him he has come in with a just shut up and work attitude. This is what I like to see in a football player. As long as he has this attitude going i think that any football team would benifit have Larry Johson on there football team. Theres no doubt that Larry can be a good running back if not a great one. As long as he is keeping his mouth shut and working there is not much of a downside haveing him on a team. Now the question is how long will he keep it up for. Has he realy changed or is this just a short lived thing. Time will tell

2nd the weight issue. Larry came in slimmer to the offseason. To me this shows something. Yes he is a pro football player and it should not be a big deal that he is in shape. But in the past we have seen Larry basicly quit on a team if he was not happy. It at least shows that he is giveing the new managment a chance to show that they can turn this into a good football team. So the question is should we as fans give him anther chance? I cant say that I am all in favor of this,however i can not say i blame him for a lot of what happend in the last few years. I was never a real big fan of Herm Edwards and I belive he was alot of the problems that pleged the chiefs. This could get frustrating to anyone.

Larry Johson is a NFL RB i dont have any question about that. The question is this. Is he worth the headace that he can be at times. I say that it depends on the team around him. Given the right team that he can have sucess with I say yes he is. Hes had a few good years and even last year if you count that he did not play every game he had decent numbers with a team that realy had struggles running the football. So to the idea of tradeing L.J while i am not toatly opposed to the idea I have warmed up to the guy based on what has been said this offseason. Time will tell if he has realy changed or if this is just the honeymoon period with the new coaching staff and new Gm. Afterall He is getting paid alot of money to play for the chiefs and would probley not be paid as much as he is getting now to go somewere eles. But I think that with what has been seen out of him tradeing him might not be the answer. It may still end up being a happy marrige between Larry Johson and the chiefs. I for one hope that the case seeing hes still on the rostor. This might just be a make or break year for him. Time will tell. GO CHIEFS!!!!!!
09-01-2009, 08:22 PM
Pro_Angler

he is not better then Charles IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!
09-01-2009, 08:39 PM
Hayvern

I think it all is going to depend on whether he gets to put up the numbers he wants. Things might be different now that his money is no longer guaranteed, but I think Johnson is all about the money and his own ego. If he does not like he is going to put up a 1,000 yard season this year, then you will hear him starting to complain again.
09-01-2009, 09:07 PM
yashi

I think Charles is a better and certainly more complete running back, but I like having the 1-2 punch. I doubt LJ has much trade value as a 30 year old RB with 400 carry seasons under his belt.
09-01-2009, 09:19 PM
honda522

Quote:

Originally Posted by yashi

I think Charles is a better and certainly more complete running back, but I like having the 1-2 punch. I doubt LJ has much trade value as a 30 year old RB with 400 carry seasons under his belt.

Well we were trying to pawn off Thiggy who doesn't seem to have much value to anyone else. I don't see why we couldn't get a 4 round pick for him with conditionals.
09-01-2009, 10:08 PM
captainamerica

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda522

Well we were trying to pawn off Thiggy who doesn't seem to have much value to anyone else. I don't see why we couldn't get a 4 round pick for him with conditionals.

We'd never be able to get a 4th rounder for him. We'd be lucky to get a 6th. LJ is worth more to our team than what we could get rid of him for. I still believe that he can contribute for our team so long as he stays focused and healthy. Also as far as Thiggy goes, he has a lot more trade value. RBs are a dime a dozen now adays. Every team seems to have depth at RB with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 teams. QBs on the otherhand are hard to find. Thigpen is young and athletic and has a lot of potential. Teams are willing to risk more for him than they would for a RB that's been banged up and hasn't played well these last couple of seasons. Especially when you consider all the off-field trouble this said RB has been in. The fact is there just isn't a market for a guy like LJ.
09-02-2009, 02:19 AM
jap1

Quote:

Originally Posted by yashi

I think Charles is a better and certainly more complete running back...

I feel the exact opposite. I feel like Charles is much like Reggie Bush: he is quick and can make people miss. I would never trust him in the redzone or short-yardage. LJ isnt as good in passing situations, but I would personally prefer a RB that can play every down and get the short yards over someone who cannot get the short yards.
09-02-2009, 02:39 AM
Big Daddy Tek

Jamal Charles has nothing on LJ. Especially if there is blocking and structure. LJ is the prototype NFL back and JC is the prototype situational guy. LJ hasnt been used properly in 2-3 years and is a guy that can demoralize a defense over 4 quarters. The scheme the last few years was crap and I agreed with about 90% of what LJ said after games. The Chiefs practically wasted this guys career.

Why do you think that when Haley and Pioli took over this team, LJ was dealt with immediatly. They told him how valuable he was and that they were gonna win and thats all he had to hear. On Haleys 2nd press conference a reporter asked him about LJ and he said "all I see is a guy who gets 5 yards every time he touches the ball." He said that everybody will get a fresh start and that LJ will be a big factor with the Chiefs this year. If you guys watch or read Haleys press conference every day, (and he does have one every day) you would know that LJ would be one of the last people on this team to be traded and I like it like that.
09-02-2009, 09:22 AM
wolfpack

I still swear when LJ runs it looks like hes stuck in 2nd gear. No break-a-way speed. Remember watching preist and he`d hit an opening, you could see him excellerate to 5th gear. Same thing Charles. LJ looks like a 300 pound women running the 100 at times.
09-02-2009, 11:51 AM
yashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfpack

I still swear when LJ runs it looks like hes stuck in 2nd gear. No break-a-way speed. Remember watching preist and he`d hit an opening, you could see him excellerate to 5th gear. Same thing Charles. LJ looks like a 300 pound women running the 100 at times.

This is what I've been seeing also, since last season. LJ looks like Brandon Jacobs on the field lately, without the trucking ability. I really think he may be one of the 2-3 slowest starting backs in the league. I do like that he seems to be fighting for every single yard now though, which he didn't last year.
09-02-2009, 12:14 PM
kcmostwanted

Let's just draft Bryce Brown in 3 years :-)
09-02-2009, 12:48 PM
Bike

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/im...cons/icon1.gif L.j. Keeper Or Problem

I'll let you know after the Baltimore game...
09-02-2009, 01:08 PM
GlennBree

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfpack

I still swear when LJ runs it looks like hes stuck in 2nd gear. No break-a-way speed. Remember watching preist and he`d hit an opening, you could see him excellerate to 5th gear. Same thing Charles. LJ looks like a 300 pound women running the 100 at times.

Oh how we used to LOVE TO WATCH 31 RUN!!!!
09-02-2009, 04:23 PM
matthewschiefs

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfpack

I still swear when LJ runs it looks like hes stuck in 2nd gear. No break-a-way speed. Remember watching preist and he`d hit an opening, you could see him excellerate to 5th gear. Same thing Charles. LJ looks like a 300 pound women running the 100 at times.

I see a little of that as well when watching him run. Maybe the fact that he has lost weight will help that. We will just have to wait and see on the as i dont think they have realy turned him on 100% during the preseason. Hopefuly he will be able to put up the numbers he wants agains so he Wont even have to think about causeing a problem.
09-02-2009, 04:42 PM
honda522

He doesn't evne use his eyes, he just puts his freakin head down and runs into the OL.
09-02-2009, 05:10 PM
Chiefster

Attitudes to wards LJ are not going to change over night; he will have to prove he has changed his attitude over an extended period of time in order for most Chiefs fans to see him in a different light IMHO.
09-02-2009, 05:13 PM
wolfpack

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda522

He doesn't evne use his eyes, he just puts his freakin head down and runs into the OL.

This makes me mad almost as running like a 300lb woman. He does it all the time.
09-02-2009, 06:28 PM
Big Daddy Tek

LJ has always ran the same. When the run stops before the line of scrimmage, you guys start lookin for reasons. He has long strides, he always has. Even when he ran for 1700 yards, it was with those long strides that look slow. You say he runs into blockers, but you also say he doesnt hit the hole fast enough. If there was a hole, he wouldnt have to run into blockers. Ive listened to Chiefs fans say this crap about Larry for years and its just ignorant.

Watch this video with LJ running behind a real line. SAME stutter step, SAME long strides, SAME LJ that looks like he's in slow motion. Especially pay attention to the run against the cowboys at about 11 seconds. If he ran this exact play at that exact speed two years later and didnt score, you guys would say he wasnt running hard. Pull your heads out!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i22ZWQpHas"]YouTube - Penn State Larry Johnson as a Kansas City Chief[/ame]
09-02-2009, 07:07 PM
yashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Tek

LJ has always ran the same. When the run stops before the line of scrimmage, you guys start lookin for reasons. He has long strides, he always has. Even when he ran for 1700 yards, it was with those long strides that look slow. You say he runs into blockers, but you also say he doesnt hit the hole fast enough. If there was a hole, he wouldnt have to run into blockers. Ive listened to Chiefs fans say this crap about Larry for years and its just ignorant.

Watch this video with LJ running behind a real line. SAME stutter step, SAME long strides, SAME LJ that looks like he's in slow motion. Especially pay attention to the run against the cowboys at about 11 seconds. If he ran this exact play at that exact speed two years later and didnt score, you guys would say he wasnt running hard. Pull your heads out!

YouTube - Penn State Larry Johnson as a Kansas City Chief

That video makes me want to cry.
09-02-2009, 07:13 PM
captainamerica

The biggest change is Larry over the years was he stopped running with a chip on his shoulder. Remember the days when LJ would never go down on the first hit? Hell, he'd never go down on the 2nd and 3rd hits either. How I miss those days.
09-02-2009, 08:07 PM
matthewschiefs

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainamerica

The biggest change is Larry over the years was he stopped running with a chip on his shoulder. Remember the days when LJ would never go down on the first hit? Hell, he'd never go down on the 2nd and 3rd hits either. How I miss those days.

I dont think that its fair to put that all on LJ. At the times he was breaking tackles the Chiefs still had one of the best o lines in the NFL. He had time to at least get going before he got hit. Thats a big diffrance from what you see at times now. Yes LJs attuide is probley part of the lack of sucess that he has had the past few years but IMO you also have to throw in the chiefs o line is down. I dont think any RB even gold old priest would have as much sucess as he did behind willie roaf will shields o line.
09-02-2009, 09:03 PM
Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewschiefs

I dont think that its fair to put that all on LJ. At the times he was breaking tackles the Chiefs still had one of the best o lines in the NFL. He had time to at least get going before he got hit. Thats a big diffrance from what you see at times now. Yes LJs attuide is probley part of the lack of sucess that he has had the past few years but IMO you also have to throw in the chiefs o line is down. I dont think any RB even gold old priest would have as much sucess as he did behind willie roaf will shields o line.

But the fact that LJ pretty much quit is what pissed me off. Blame the O line if u like, but the multi million dollar player who quit is gonna take a lot of criticism. The problem is that all of his problems stem from his attitude. I hope LJ returns to form, but I dont buy excused for LJs play. You want to be an elite RB then u bust your as$ on every play. Barry Sanders had a sh!t line and he seemed like a successful RB to me.
09-02-2009, 09:59 PM
KristofLaw

Keeper. :bananen_smilies046:
09-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Big Daddy Tek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada

But the fact that LJ pretty much quit is what pissed me off. Blame the O line if u like, but the multi million dollar player who quit is gonna take a lot of criticism. The problem is that all of his problems stem from his attitude. I hope LJ returns to form, but I dont buy excused for LJs play. You want to be an elite RB then u bust your as$ on every play. Barry Sanders had a sh!t line and he seemed like a successful RB to me.

Seriously Canada? Barry Sanders? come on, Barry is arguably the greatest player of all time at any position and he wasnt a power back like LJ. If you look at the video I posted on the second page youll see that he runs with the exact same style now as he did when we had a great O-line. Larry starts slow and needs time to pick his hole and then hes gone. The past 2 years, we have not had sh!t for a line. I do not and will not believe that LJ quit.
09-02-2009, 10:45 PM
matthewschiefs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada

But the fact that LJ pretty much quit is what pissed me off. Blame the O line if u like, but the multi million dollar player who quit is gonna take a lot of criticism. The problem is that all of his problems stem from his attitude. I hope LJ returns to form, but I dont buy excused for LJs play. You want to be an elite RB then u bust your as$ on every play. Barry Sanders had a sh!t line and he seemed like a successful RB to me.

Barry was a hall of fame rb and his O line was not the best, there were times that he stuggled due to the o line. I am not Blameing the O line Ljs attitude is a BIG part of it. I am just saying that the O line is also part of it IMO. I dont think you can but it all on Lj
09-02-2009, 11:58 PM
captainamerica

LJ used to twist and turn to pickup that few extra yards, he used to break tackle, after tackle, after tackle to get that first down. He used to play every down as if it were his last. He used to do all this and more right up until he got his big contract.
09-03-2009, 01:00 AM
rbedgood

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bike

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/im...cons/icon1.gif L.j. Keeper Or Problem

I'll let you know after the Baltimore game...

a) Baltimore is not a fair assessment of any RB...

b) if Cassel doesn't play you'll have to wait...as the other QBS won't demand the respect he will by pulling the safeties out of the box.

I say give LJ 2-3 weeks and see where he's at...if he's had 2 good games, and Baltimore is 55-75 yards, then the problem isn't him.
09-03-2009, 01:25 AM
Chiefster

LJ's problem has been his attitude on and off the field.

The O-lines problem has been that they stink the place up.
09-03-2009, 02:22 AM
jap1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Tek

LJ has always ran the same. When the run stops before the line of scrimmage, you guys start lookin for reasons. He has long strides, he always has. Even when he ran for 1700 yards, it was with those long strides that look slow. You say he runs into blockers, but you also say he doesnt hit the hole fast enough. If there was a hole, he wouldnt have to run into blockers. Ive listened to Chiefs fans say this crap about Larry for years and its just ignorant.

Watch this video with LJ running behind a real line. SAME stutter step, SAME long strides, SAME LJ that looks like he's in slow motion. Especially pay attention to the run against the cowboys at about 11 seconds. If he ran this exact play at that exact speed two years later and didnt score, you guys would say he wasnt running hard. Pull your heads out!

YouTube - Penn State Larry Johnson as a Kansas City Chief

Im glad someone actually agrees with me. People say that he played like crap last year, but they ignore his numbers. Yeah, he used to break 1 or 2 tackles on every play. Problem is those were usually defensive backs because the Oline took out the DL and LBs. It is a lot easier to break a 200lb DB's tackle when you are running full speed than to break a tackle from a 300 lb DL or 260 lb LB who hits you in the backfield.
09-03-2009, 03:21 AM
doobs_05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada

But the fact that LJ pretty much quit is what pissed me off. Blame the O line if u like, but the multi million dollar player who quit is gonna take a lot of criticism. The problem is that all of his problems stem from his attitude. I hope LJ returns to form, but I dont buy excused for LJs play. You want to be an elite RB then u bust your as$ on every play. Barry Sanders had a sh!t line and he seemed like a successful RB to me.

This!!!!!!!!!! Larry Johnson's attitude is what pisses people off. his running skills are probably the same but when you have a piss poor attitude no one will like you.
09-03-2009, 07:52 AM
Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by jap1

Im glad someone actually agrees with me. People say that he played like crap last year, but they ignore his numbers. Yeah, he used to break 1 or 2 tackles on every play. Problem is those were usually defensive backs because the Oline took out the DL and LBs. It is a lot easier to break a 200lb DB's tackle when you are running full speed than to break a tackle from a 300 lb DL or 260 lb LB who hits you in the backfield.

I can name 100 RBs that coulp put up LJs numbers if they did not have to run through the DL or LBs. I mean, every one can say Croyle sucks (he didn't have an O line) or Cassel is a bust (he dosen't have an O line) or Kolby Smith sucks (he didn't have an O line) or Charles is no good (he didn't have an O line) but if we say it about LJ then every excuse in the book comes flying out. I get it, he did better with a good O line, but he also gave more effort with a good O line then he EVER did with Herms O line.
09-03-2009, 08:43 AM
Bike

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbedgood

a) Baltimore is not a fair assessment of any RB...

b) if Cassel doesn't play you'll have to wait...as the other QBS won't demand the respect he will by pulling the safeties out of the box.

I say give LJ 2-3 weeks and see where he's at...if he's had 2 good games, and Baltimore is 55-75 yards, then the problem isn't him.

Thanks for chiming in but LJ's effort (or lack thereof) is the point I was trying to get across. We should be able to see that game 1.
09-03-2009, 09:21 AM
Big Daddy Tek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada

I can name 100 RBs that coulp put up LJs numbers if they did not have to run through the DL or LBs. I mean, every one can say Croyle sucks (he didn't have an O line) or Cassel is a bust (he dosen't have an O line) or Kolby Smith sucks (he didn't have an O line) or Charles is no good (he didn't have an O line) but if we say it about LJ then every excuse in the book comes flying out. I get it, he did better with a good O line, but he also gave more effort with a good O line then he EVER did with Herms O line.

Actually Canada, the exact opposite. Im the only one making an excuse for LJ. Everybody else on the entire planet is against him no matter what, just like you.

No effort? What are you talking about? If you think that you can sit on your couch and give an acurate analysis of a running backs effort, than your crazy. Especially if you think that the coach is seeing the same thing and not benching him! He ran for over 1700 yards and had 41 catches in Herms first year! He was injured in Herms 2nd year and missed half the season. A season in which we were actually playing decent until he went down in week 8 against Green Bay and we were never the same. LJ came back in Herms 3rd year and ran for 200 yards against Denver, had the longest run of his career and his yards per carry (4.5) were even better LAST YEAR than they were any other year that he played for Herm. He ended up with a tad under 900 yards in 12 games! Get outta here with the effort stuff Canada. The scheme has been a joke and you know it, this guys never ran different.

After LJ's court decision stating that the Chiefs don't have to pay him sh!t this year, because of his spitting issue (the only real issue you should be mad at him about). Scott Pioli could have got rid of him right away. But he didnt. Instead, he retained him and Todd Haley has never said anything but the absolute best about Larry. And thats saying alot for Todd! I think that it would be a fair assesment to say that Scott Pioli and Todd Haley agree with Big Daddy Tek OVER Canada!

As my first disagreement ever with you in over a year, Canada... I would like you to know that I still think that you are the man........... but you just got POSTERIZED SON!
09-03-2009, 09:44 AM
Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Tek

Actually Canada, the exact opposite. Im the only one making an excuse for LJ. Everybody else on the entire planet is against him no matter what, just like you.

Its almost like there is a reason that everyone out there is against him. Maybe his attitude SUCKS!! I have no doubt that it changed now the Haley is in town. Thats great, I have alwasy said that LJ is a great RB and I hope he returns to form. But if he is only gonna play when HE wants to, then what happens when Haley goes pass happy and LJ isn't getting what he wants? Its gonna be the same old sh!t!! I wanna be traded, Im not happy, I want more money.
No effort? What are you talking about? If you think that you can sit on your couch and give an acurate analysis of a running backs effort, than your crazy. Especially if you think that the coach is seeing the same thing and not benching him! He ran for over 1700 yards and had 41 catches in Herms first year! He was injured in Herms 2nd year and missed half the season. A season in which we were actually playing decent until he went down in week 8 against Green Bay and we were never the same. LJ came back in Herms 3rd year and ran for 200 yards against Denver, had the longest run of his career and his yards per carry (4.5) were even better LAST YEAR than they were any other year that he played for Herm. He ended up with a tad under 900 yards in 12 games! Get outta here with the effort stuff Canada. The scheme has been a joke and you know it, this guys never ran different.

So, if I can't sit on my couch and give an accurate assessment of his effort, how is it that you can? How is it that you can sit here and tell me that LJ is giving 100% out there? The reason he has not been benched is because Haley sees what everyone else sees (except a few) is that LJ is a great RB, with lots of talent. However his attitude can be sh!t. He is putting on his good attitude for the new coach. I hope he keeps it that way but I will believe it when I see it!! I don't care how the rest of the team looks or what the scheme is like, LJ should be running as hard as he can EVERY play and if u think he did that, you could not have been watching him very much.

After LJ's court decision stating that the Chiefs don't have to pay him sh!t this year, because of his spitting issue (the only real issue you should be mad at him about). Scott Pioli could have got rid of him right away. But he didnt. Instead, he retained him and Todd Haley has never said anything but the absolute best about Larry. And thats saying alot for Todd! I think that it would be a fair assesment to say that Scott Pioli and Todd Haley agree with Big Daddy Tek OVER Canada!

So...Pioli and Haley kept a potential Pro Bowl RB that they do not have to pay. And this is supposed to be some sort of brilliant move? Who wouldnt? Like I have said, I have seen LJ say all the right things when he isn't getting paid. How about when he gets his check. How good is he then, cause he sucked balls after his last big contract!!

As my first disagreement ever with you in over a year, Canada... I would like you to know that I still think that you are the man........... but you just got POSTERIZED SON!

I am glad we don't disagree a lot and I dont think we really disagree on LJs talent level. He can be one of the best in the league if he wants. I just question how much he actually does WANT to!! :bananen_smilies046: Keep your poster and I will sign it for you at a game and you can hang it in your bedroom!! :D
09-03-2009, 09:53 AM
Big Daddy Tek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada

I am glad we don't disagree a lot and I dont think we really disagree on LJs talent level. He can be one of the best in the league if he wants. I just question how much he actually does WANT to!! :bananen_smilies046: Keep your poster and I will sign it for you at a game and you can hang it in your bedroom!! :D

HAHAHAHAHAHA! THANKS CANADA!
09-04-2009, 03:23 AM
doobs_05

We need some beers and go to a strip club in canada:bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies015::band23:
09-04-2009, 11:55 AM
brish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Church_Backfield

Well Tek im def going to disagree with you hardcore.

A Ill Name a few backs here with crap lines who ran for over a 1000 last year. Steve Slaton,Matt Forte, Ryan Grant,Steven Jackson,Frank Gore,JAMAAL LEWIS. All of these backs dont have a stellar line and yes i know a few of them have better lines then us but they ran hungry,

B. That whole foot injury not injury mystery quitting on the team crap made me lose all respect for him. Say what you want but the day he got signed longterm big money was the day he quit running.

C. The only reason johnson had 2 big years was because of the line making him look good. Because Any good/GREAT back which many people believe johnson was would not have his attitude problem,lack of yards regardless of the line( ie the backs i mentioned) and they wouldnt be power backs trying to be scat backs.

D. At any rate regardless of opinion of his talent the oline any of that... He is 30 and is now going to regress its just how life in the nfl is. I like savage charles and battles they all run hard but IMO none of them are starters. So i look for a early runningback pick in the next 2 years.

But they all still had better lines than the chiefs.. Moot point, I still think LJ should be one of the backs on this team, if he starts giving problems. Sit him..
But so far I've only heard good things about him.