Per Chris Mortensen, ESPN NFL insider.
Players union has filed decertification papers in Minneapolis court.
Peaceful renegotiation of new CBA is now a thing of the past. The courts will decide, and there may be no football this year.
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Per Chris Mortensen, ESPN NFL insider.
Players union has filed decertification papers in Minneapolis court.
Peaceful renegotiation of new CBA is now a thing of the past. The courts will decide, and there may be no football this year.
Guess I should take up gardening.
If the season is lost then so am I as a fan, I am sorry to many broke people in the world to be a fan of a sport where we have crybabys balling of a BILLION dollars, somebody got 15 cent I can borrow? I am not going to post again until what would have been the 1st game of the year in sept. If we are not playing then this will be my last post and it has been fun being all of your friends. 28 years of being a chiefs fan may go down the drain because of a bunch of B*tch@s, I would like to hear what the coachs think about this matter since they are in the middle of this mess wanting to get there teams ready.:banghead:
Well if they mess around and screw up the season I am with you I still do not watch MLB because of their last strike. I still consider the Royals my team but I might look at the standings a couple of weeks is how I follow MLB. That is how I will change to follow the NFL if they screw this up, my football will be Friday night and Saturday. The damn crybabies are going to screw a good thing. From what I just read the only thing the owners did not give in on was opening the books for the last 10 years. Read this Players' union decertifies as talks break down - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
From what I have heard today on ESPN the owners offered to meet the players halfway on the issues. The players turned that down. Wanting to see the owners books for the past 10 years. I think I saw the owners offered the books for the past 5 (not sure on that) I have said all along I think the players are being greedy just like the owners I think that this is some proof of that.
I am not an expert and don't no much about the issues at all but I am not sure how they will do in the anti trust suite against the owners. Seeing that the NFL now is not the only place you can go to play football. There is a UFL now. The players won't want to go to the UFL to play because they won't make nearly as much but it is there.
I think that the greed on both sides is going to what ends up getting a deal done. Neither side is going to want to miss one game check. I think come July august both sides are going to be willing to give in more then they are now.
Why do players think they deserve to make half of the profits? Are they going to cough up their half of the losess if the franchise loses money in any given year? The player salaries are in large part why I pay $125 for a ticket. It's ridiculous that a bunch of greedy players that are already overpaid can ruin the game of football.
Screw the union and the current players. I would be happy to see the owners move on without the current players. Let's draft this year and start anew. The current players can come back if and when they want to collect a their measily million dollar paychecks.
While I do think that the players should get more of the profits because they are the ones that supply the product I don't no if they should get 20% more then the owners maybe 10-15% more.
I do think it says a lot that the owners have been the ones that have made some movement from there first demands and the players have stuck with theres according to reports. I have said all along that there is greed from there side they have proved me right.
I've gotta disagree with you here...Ticket prices are determined solely by demand, not by player salaries.
There are a ton of reasons why the players deserve 50% of the profits. These guys are the best football players in the world. We watch every Sunday because of them. Why do the owners deserve another $1 billion off the top? To pay for their new yacht? It's not to pay for new stadiums, they get taxpayers to do that.
I'm with you guys,Ive been a football fan for 35 years.I don't know what i'm gonna do without it.I will watch high school and college ball I guess.I'm not watching nfl football, if the deal doesnt get done.Even if I miss one preseason game.I will be done.It is a bunch of crap.The players make tons of money and half the time they don't even give full effort.play when they want to play.They want wewarded for that.If anything ,every player should get paid the same and have a huge purse at the end of the year.For those who make it to the playoffs and the super bowl.It really hurts to know im not gonna watch my Chiefs any more.I promise you I will not watch it if they don't get a deal done before the season starts.To think ,I got a big Chiefs tattoo on my arm two years ago.I know they put there bodys on the line but they already get payed well to do it.If I was good enough you almost wouldnt even have to pay me.Thats how much I love football.I played High school football and play pick up games at my old high school for years until I got to old to play.It's a shame everyone has to be so greedy.You have to pay 26.00 dollars just to park your car at the game.Give me a break.Most average familys can't even afford to go to the game it cost so much.As usual we try and scrape up the money to go because we love are respective teams.I hope and pray I get to hear those famouse words ,Touchdown Kansas city.
If not I guess I will servive.Love ya Chiefs fans.
Partially true, tax payers are sometimes asked to pay for renovations. When they wanted to put the rolling roof over Arrowhead and Kauffman, the put a bond on to pay for it. If the roof went on, then Arrowhead would have gotten a Super Bowl in 2015. Voters turned down the bond, so the roof never happened.
In the end, the 375 million in renovations were to be paid by the city, as it turns out though, the Hunts put up 125 million of their own money for the renovations, the city, I believe, paid the rest.
Wrong. Who supplies the product??? The owners OWN the business and therefore they supply the product, not the employees.
I suppose you also believe that Apple employees should receive 50% of the profits since they manufacture the iPhone. And GM employees deserve 50% of the profits since they drive the screws into the car.
I hate the sense of entitlement that exists in this country. Btw, I'm not referring to you Matthew, I don't even know you. If employees/players don't like the deal they are getting, they should look for another company/team or start their own business. Why should the owners be penalized for having a successful business?
As you can probably tell I am bigger fan of capitalism than I am of unions.
This is true but it seems as the players weren't willing to concede anything. I am sure the owners would open the books if the players would at least entertain an 18 game season. Goes both ways here and it sucks for us. Players carry every bit as much blame as the owners on this one.
The players never were serious about negotiation on this. They have NEVER in the entire time of these talks ever told anyone what they would take. The owners have given, they gave back all the way up to the end, but the players still did not want to give up anything.
NFL.com news: League locks out players, whose union decertified
I hope the judges slap the crap out of them and put them in their place.
if ya want help from the player's union there is none. its been dissolved.
NFL players union dissolved; lockout imposed
but from what I understand the players have the right to sue the owners for blocking them out. where's a philly lawyer when you need one???Quote:
WASHINGTON -- The players had the owners on the run, but picked the nuclear option instead.
Seeking a decisive blow against the backpedaling owners instead of agreeing to a new collective bargaining agreement, the NFL Players Association shifted the labor war to the courts yesterday by decertifying and then having 10 players -- including the Giants' Osi Umenyiora -- file an antitrust lawsuit against the league.
The owners, who angrily accused union chief DeMaurice Smith of negotiating in bad faith, then imposed a lockout last night at 11:59 p.m. and set off the sport's first work stoppage since 1987.
Read more: NFL players union dissolved; lockout imposed - NYPOST.com
the draft will go forward but the players picked are out to. what a mess. if there's no games might be the end of me as a fan to. when the last MLB strike took place i was never much of a fan and im still not. and I feel the same here. if and when they play again ill never be an NFL fan anymore.
Agreed on the ticket prices.
I think the owners are wanting something back because numbers say attendance is down so there money is down. More people are watching the game on tv then going to the games so I do think the owners are not making as much as they once were. I don't think that they are hurting to bad but why should they pay the price from that alone? This is a group effort from the players and owners why shouldn't the players have to give some back when the owners do?
For me the bottom line is it has been the OWNERS who have moved off there demands not the players. The players are becoming more and more to blame for this. I find it funny that the players have been all upset for the owners planing a lockout when they planned to break up the union before last season. Both sides need to be at the table. The owners are there the players decided to leave and they are the ones that won't come back. The players greed is hurting the NFL just as the owners did. Two rights don't make a wrong.
I think that all employees are entitled to whatever they can get through the common practices of capitalism.
And, since collective bargaining is one of the primary tools of any free market negotiation, then go Capitalist unions.
Funny how so many encourage allowing the free market to speak, until it speaks on behalf of the slaves.
I support capitalism. But only if everybody is allowed to play.
To think I was about to switch to Direct TV.......no freaking way now!!Both sides can kiss my ---!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Disappointing....
Nice try. Other way around. The Hunt's don't own Arrowhead, Jackson County Sports Complex(taxpayers) does. Don't hate Clark Hunt because he makes money. You should hate Clark if he agrees to a deal where he loses money, because then you would be in jeopardy of losing your Chiefs to another city.
I say the owners move forward and play with scabs. These players know how good they have it.
Here is an excerpt from this article: What Do Athletes Salaries Say About American Values? | Prose Before Hos
Quote:
Wake up, people. Take a stand. Not only against athletes’ astronomical paychecks, but against their behavior. Maybe earning $60,000 in a year instead of $15 million will help them realize that while having extreme athletic skill is pretty awesome, it’s not nearly as cool as making a real difference in someone’s life.
Would you honestly watch that though? The reason the NFL is the most popular sport in America (hands down) is because of the marketability of the players. It's the same reason the UFL or AFL will never be a fraction of what the NFL is.
I get that the average Joe like you and me would love to come close what the players are making, but you can't really compare this our situation. It's completely different because the NFL generates a huge amount of revenue considering the small amount of players it employs.
And we're not just talking about the players playing today. There are retired players living off a $300 a month pension with tremendous health problems. The union is speaking for these people, who made the game what it is today, also. There are great players, like Bobby Bell, trying to sell autographs on Facebook to make ends meet. The players union is also looking out for the needs of those who are long retired (like making a rookie wage scale and giving this savings to the retired players). I realize this is something we'll probably never agree on, so sorry for the bickering.
I'm not saying that the owners don't do good things (like the Hunt family), but in any walk of a life if a companies owners decide to one day walk in and stiff their employees by asking for an extra $1 billion off the top (of about $8 billion in total revenue last year), there is going to be a backlash.
If these players choose the nfl career, they do it for the money and if they are too iresponsible to save or invest then its not the taxpayers or the fans problems. Most of these players are big overgrown overpaid crybabies that know nothing about the average person(the person who pays to see them play). These guys would not care if we all lost our homes or died. All they care about is money. If they get hurt, they have insurance. If they don't its their own fault, cause they sure get paid enough to buy it. Many of these players live it up and blow their wealth then they sit around and play the poor poor pitiful me song. They are unappreciative and greedy.
I have been a nfl fan for many years.Seldom do I leave the house without a Chiefs hat or shirt. I work hard and have never taken a taxpayer or government handout. I pay my bills and if I have any left I go to the game. Last season was my first game ever, I didn't have the money but promised the kids.
Now for the owners, they are well educated and serve their purpose well in each of their cities, they run this like a buisiness just like they should. If they are billionairs than I'm sure they, or their daddies earned that title. I'm sure that if they did not own an nfl team they would own some other prosperous buisiness that would employ many other people and serve their cities well. But these overpayed, greedy players would not have the nfl they would have more normal jobs. Maybe it would make them better money managers and teach them responsibilities. And who knows maybe, just maybe they would understand capitalism and realize that if you want to make more money, work harder or get a different job.
I wish we had more billionairs living in this country.
Just my 2 cents. I believe everyone is entitled to their oppinion, so feel free to rip me up.
To me those former players are among the ones that are paying the price for this. But the current players turned down a deal that would have given those former players 82 Million NFLLabor.com EXCLUSIVE: Summary of NFL proposal to NFLPA « I thought the deal the owners offered was pretty fair. Yes the players would have lost money but then they would have got some things to. Like the not going to 18 games that they fought so hard against. It's a shame that the former players pay the price I am sure they could have used that 82 million.
Do you bother to ever read anything other that what gets you in an uproar?
This was in response to Coach's comment about preferring capitalism (economic anarchy) over unions.
You want to be offended? Have fun with that.
You are going to be offended at any comment that doesn't bow down to the masters as superior beings anyway. Superior, in most cases, for accepting Daddy's money.
You copped a big attitude and called me a liar in the "Some Interesting Numbers" thread, while you were as wrong as could possibly be, and somehow, you are insulted?
Good. Stay that way.
I couldn't care less what offense you take from subjects that do not include you.
Yeah! How dare these athletes live free? It's a disgrace!Quote:
Wake up, people. Take a stand. Not only against athletes’ astronomical paychecks, but against their behavior. Maybe earning $60,000 in a year instead of $15 million will help them realize that while having extreme athletic skill is pretty awesome, it’s not nearly as cool as making a real difference in someone’s life.
Let's go back to paying them $60,000 a year, so we won't have to bother having good athletes in the game too.
Let's see just what kind of rejects we can get to risk their ability to walk for average pay.
The people who work for a living deserve as little pay as the do-nothing masters can find a way to pay them.
Because, as we all know, the risk of your health, or well-being is nothing compared to the risk of part of a mountain of money that Daddy left you.
And the commitment to becoming the absolute best in the world at your job pales in comparison to the commitment of risking some of Daddy's money.
Capitalism is a failure because capitalists don't even know what it is, or how it works.
Collective bargaining is a staple of capitalism. But capitalists go to great lengths to ensure that their opposition in a negotiation be restricted from using it.
"where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan
“Collective bargaining in the years since has played a major role in America’s economic miracle. Unions represent some of the freest institutions in this land." - Ronald Reagan
Here is a copy of the offer the owners made to the players. They offered to meet the players halfway, but the players union walked away.
1.***** We more than split the economic difference between us, increasing our proposed cap for 2011 significantly and accepting the Union’s proposed cap number for 2014 ($161 million per club).
2.***** An entry level compensation system based on the Union’s “rookie cap” proposal, rather than the wage scale proposed by the clubs.* Under the NFL proposal, players drafted in rounds 2-7 would be paid the same or more than they are paid today.* Savings from the first round would be reallocated to veteran players and benefits.
3.***** A guarantee of up to $1 million of a player’s salary for the contract year after his injury – the first time that the clubs have offered a standard multi-year injury guarantee.
4.***** Immediate implementation of changes to promote player health and safety by
a.***** Reducing the off-season program by five weeks, reducing OTAs from 14 to 10, and limiting on-field practice time and contact;
b.***** Limiting full-contact practices in the preseason and regular season; and
c.****** Increasing number of days off for players.
More after the jump.
5.***** Commit that any change to an 18-game season will be made only by agreement and that the 2011 and 2012 seasons will be played under the current 16-game format.
6.***** Owner funding of $82 million in 2011-12 to support additional benefits to former players, which would increase retirement benefits for more than 2000 former players by nearly 60 percent.
7.***** Offer current players the opportunity to remain in the player medical plan for life.
8.***** Third party arbitration for appeals in the drug and steroid programs.
9.***** Improvements in the Mackey plan, disability plan, and degree completion bonus program.
10.* A per-club cash minimum spend of 90 percent of the salary cap over three seasons.
To me, this who owners / players debate is silly.
All of these people are much richer than any of us will likely ever be and both are greedy, in so far as they want as much as they can get.
Also, both are uncaring in so far as they won't agree to an offer that would help save the jobs of so many "little people", even though they themselves would still be richer than probably 98% of Americans and 99.9% of the world.
Unfortunately, we don't have a culture in this country that cares about the ordinary guy. What do you expect, when governement goes to bat for the top 2% of income earners, who getting rich sending all of our jobs to the Philippines and India, while simultaneously cutting all the rights of teachers making (at the most generous of estimates) $51K in salaries and $30K in benefits.
All of the rich have the power to manipulate and fight through the government and get richer, which is just the game the players and owners are playing.
The rest of us can just "eat cake".
I say that there are plenty of Football Players, that would love to keep playing. Make the lock out permanent for any member of the NFPLA. They did dissolve there union.
I thought that this was a pretty fair offer from the owners. Yes the owners would have taken money from the players side but they would have given them more off days. You work less you get paid less. It's just how the world works.
Not to mention they would have gotten some of the health benfits they claimed this was all about.I would have taken this offer. It's not a bad offer from the owners.
I have no care for the members of the NFLPA, they did not come to the table in true faith. Prove me wrong.
Over inflated wages in any business cause inflation to the end user!
I would love to have a brand new car, but I can not afford one, and if I could, the insurance would be unaffordable, why does a new car cost so much? because of the cost to produce it? If unions did not affect the cost of delivery of good to the store I work at then maybe my income would be better than it is. . I am just Pissed about all of this! I have no respect for the NFLPA! Why, Why should I to my opinion they never negotiated in good faith.
How can you be so sure that the owners negociated in good faith? Negociating doesn't mean putting a take it or leave it offer on the table. That isn't negociating, that's an ultimatem. Also, your anology about the car would be apt, if any cars were actually built in America, anymore. Detroit is a ghost town. My father's company relocated their manufacturing plant to Mexico. Why? Because they can work the laborers 16 hours a day and pay them literally $2.00 an hour. This isn't about viability, this is about greed. Sad to say, Ross Perot was quite right when he talked about NAFTA, tarriffs and the sound of jobs being sucked out of America.
Regardless, I'm not defending the NFLPA, except to say that I think that both side are equally greedy and could care less about us - except to the extent the we line their pockets. Although people are saying lots of people want to play football, it isn't the players themselves who offered them millions of dollars. I am sure that NFLPA would be quite happy with no salary cap and other concessions they have made over the years.
Really, just watching a lot of greedy millionaires hurt the lives of everyday Americans. What else is new? Anyone who thinks anything else, is a little delusional, IMO.
Interesting thought I had was what if the players banded together and formed their own league? What then, would anyone follow NFL teams with clearly inferior talent? What portion of its share would the NFL stand to lose? At the very least, the owners would stand to lose their virual monopoly.
Not saying that this is going to happen, but I think it shows that both sides have something to bring to the table.
If the NFL tried to lock out the players and break the union, I could see this happening, or the UFL getting much bigger and better much more quickly (as for me, I can't decide if I am a Las Vegas Locomotives fan or San Francisco Bobcats guy...)
Probably college stadiums or where-ever they could. Probably in any city without an NFL team. Realistically, if the NFL tried to break the union, by locking out the players, you would probably see an exodus to Canada and or the UFL. Don't forget, that the new USFL is starting up in 2012, too.
Again, I don't see this happening. Just kind of making the point that the owners and the players need each other because only together can they maximize and fullfill their greedy aspirations.
Frankly, they are like two lions fighting over a giant dead carcass.
College Stadiums are not that easy to book, you have to plan around, and then who gets what from concessions, who pays for clean up of the stadium?
You are wrong, the owners do not need the current nfpa players! There is plenty of football players that want a opportunity to play in the NFL. The biggest mistake anybody makes is that they can not be replaced.
I disagree.
Let's say that the owners did break the NFLPA and hired scabs. If the players had no where to go, do you think they would just get jobs at Taco Bell? No, in time they would leave the union and return to play with NFL. If you recall, when the NFL hired scabs during the last strike, a number of players crossed the picket lines to play.
No way to stop this. But then what happens, teams start fighting for better players and paying more and more money. Without a CBA, there is no cap. Do you really think the owners would stick together when Tom Brady wants to come back? How do you keep the Patriots from allowing him back?
Problem is that the NFL needs a CBA as much as the players do...