i would take him over poe anyday
NFL Draft Preview: Michael Brockers - YouTube
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i would take him over poe anyday
NFL Draft Preview: Michael Brockers - YouTube
I am personally biased against lsu dts since they have not panned out for us so far.
Not opposed to the idea, and certainly not a fan of Poe's... any word on how he would transition to a 3-4 NT?? dude is a 4-3 DT right now and looks like he is built solid like he would be a DE in a 3-4..not overly big like a 3-4 NT
Just wondering what the reviews are about that. if anyone has any
If you look at the obvious weakness of our Team losing to teams like Denver it was becuase the our Defensive line was getting pushed back 5 yards allowing everyone run on us.
We were the 26th ranked defense against the run, giving up an average of 4.2 yards a carrier. If my math is correct. That is a first down every 3 plays.
So are you telling me that this is a result of of our two Pro-bowl Line backers not doing their job, cause I would beg to differ.
Also based on the clip provided, He is only making plays by using his motor and shedding his block after the rest of the defense broke down the pocket. A lot of his plays he is being blocked back by one player and not a double team.
Not this $#% again... check NFL DL tackles:
1 Jason Pierre-Paul 86
2 Ahtyba Rubin 83
3 Calais Campbell 72
4 Jared Allen 66
4 Domata Peko 66
6 Haloti Ngata 64
7 Glenn Dorsey 62
8 Phillip Taylor 59
9 Sione Pouha 58
9 Justin Smith 58
11 Antonio Garay 57
11 Jeremy Mincey 57
13 Brandon Mebane 56
13 J.J. Watt 56
15 Tyson Jackson 55
That's the rankings in the entire NFL and the Chiefs have #7 and #15 thanks to their "LSU DLs". Best yet, Dorsey is really a 4-3 DT who's had to be retrained & restrained to be a 3-4 DE... and you think he hasn't panned out?! They make up the best base 3-4 DE combo in the entire league. They account for 6.25% and 5.98% of the team's tackles, respectively - all while eating up blockers to free linebackers ( just count how many times Dorsey is doubled a game... ). Add to the fact that they don't make tackles down the field in coverage like linebackers do - their tackles all come near the line of scrimmage, and what more impact do you want? Its a base 3-4 - not a 4-3, not a hybrid like Wade Phillips runs; these guys have run responsibility each play, every play.
I'm by no means vouching for Brockers - I think he needed more time in the college - but to be disappointed in GD & TJ is flat out ridiculous.
bleacher report top DE's which Dorsey and Jackson are not DT's
1 Peppers
2 Freeney
3 Allen
4 Umenyora
5 Tuck
6 Abraham
7 seymore
8 Cole
9 Mathis
10 Smith, Justin
11 Dumervil
12 Babin
13 Johnson
14 Dockett
15 Dunlap
16 Keisel
17 Smith, Aaron
18 Castillo
19 Clemons
no Dorsey or Jackson on the list...and yes some are in 3-4 schemes
Bleacher Report makes rankings based on soft criteria. It's very debatable. I prefer PFF, at least they use hard criteria.
I did watch the game. I was there as a season ticket holder watching our team getting destroyed at the line of scrimmage and No they were not draw plays. I did see Denver holding Dorsey and Jackson an aweful lot, but they were still getting pushed back. Every run, was a three yard gain before any contact was made and every run we had was at the line of scrimmage.
Tebow threw the ball like 8 freaking times and that was only when we had actually stopped them for a 3rd and long. They successfully ran for 4 to 5 yards every dang play and what I thought was good defense was still giving up 4 yards because they were getting pushed back.
find a report that ranks only 3-4 DE's and NT's, see if Dorsey and Jackson are in the top 12 since only 12 teams use the 3-4. that would put them in the top 50%.
Bleacher Report!?
Seriously ... Bleacher Report?
All those articles are submitted by fans. Occasionaly you will find a knowledgeable, well written article, but not very often. Anybody can write for Bleacher Report--you, me, people that don't even watch or like football--anyone.
I agree with Julius Peppers at #1, though. :D
When you're double teamed and being held all day you're going to give up some yards. I was at the game too and apparently we saw two different things. We both saw them getting 4 to 5 yards every play (average was 4.4 yards) for FIFTY FIVE running plays. I'll say that again but with number 55 running plays! So for the game they had 244 yards rushing.
If you're going to go based on average per play did the Chiefs beat their butts since we got 5.6 yards per play? I'll be the first to admit that 244 yards is a lot of rushing yards but not when you compare it against how often a team usually runs the ball. In 2011 there were 508 rushing attempts against the Chiefs D for an average of 4.2 yards per play and 132 yards per game. That means on average a team ran the ball 32 times per game. Denver ran it 55 times! Yeah, they're going to have more rushing yards. We were 11th in the NFL for yards allowed per game. What more do you want?
I guess we did see different games, as you are supporting my arguement of why I don't want another LSU D Linemand. 55 Running plays, means your defensive line is getting beat and you CANT stop the run so they keep running it until we stopped them. Throw what ever stats you want to about Dorsey or Jackson out there to beat around the bush, but when it is your sole job is to hold the line and take up blockers for your line backers to make plays and you let a team run the ball 55 times in a game, and throw only 8 times. You are not doing your job adequately.
Your stats about 11th in NFL for yards is a moot stat in regards to how adequate Jackson and Dorsey were on the D line. Obviously teams running the ball will get less yards than teams throwing the ball, specially when our strength was our secondary. Being the 26th ranked defense against the run supports that.
No, running the ball 55 times in a game means you have Tebow as your QB. The guy can't throw the ball so they have to run.
I don't want another LSU D lineman because Brockers is a redshirt freshman who had one good year. The guy has boom or bust written all over him. No thanks, pass. I want a guy that is a safe pick, a plug me right into a starting position pick.
As for 26th in rushing defense...c'mon now. Berry was out all year, our offense was anemic at best which means the D is going to spend more time on the field. That's two fold, more plays are going to be run against our D making them get tired faster and the stats are going to get skewed.
In 2011 the Chiefs were 26th in rushing defense. In 2010 with Berry and a strong running game they were 16th. That was with a 2nd year DE (Jackson), a 3rd year DE (Dorsey) and two rookie safeties. If you really can't see that we're going to be better with everyone back with seasoned vets and an offense that can march the ball more than a 3 & out then we really don't have much more to talk about.
Don't agree with you and never will and I am not even sure you are arguing against my point but rather in defense of the entire defense in whole which is not my debate. The defensive line was man handled by Denver which is why they were able to run the ball 55 times. Don't get man hanlded and stop them from running the ball and Denver has to punt or throw. Eric Berry does not stop the run all by himself and does not prevent our defensive line from getting knocked back for 4 yards allowing denver to run a dive for 3 yards before contact making it a 4 yard gain. In the game againt Denver in Denver, the Chiefs were night and day better about this and held their line much better.
Point of my argument was that I was not in favor of another LSU D lineman as the two we have so far, are not fairing to the best of my desires and any stat anyone want me to look at goes out the door from my own personal judgement watching that Home Denver game.
We agree on not wanting Brockers but for different reasons.
As for the entire defense I'm not sure how you can say that Berry didn't make a difference. I'll point to Polamalu to back up that a safety does indeed make a difference. The Steelers got run all over after Polamalu went down.
We just took two different things away from the home Denver game. You took away that our DLine isn't what you want it to be. I took away that Tebow isn't a good QB, so they had to pound the rock all day long and our defense got tired.
I just don't know how you can argue that a rushing defense isn't good when it allows 10 points up until we bite run and get a TD thrown over the top. Personally, I'll take a rushing defense that allows the opponent to score 7 points plus a 38 yard field goal every Sunday.
the reason they ran the ball 55 time was because they could, the defense was unable to stop the run. you can't run the ball that many times when you have to punt after three downs.
My concern goes beyong The Denver Game. Just as our defensive line was destroyed against oakland in 2010 with Berry in there. It was handled by Baltimore in the play off game and was handled by Denver. Now, that is two divisional teams handling our defensive line.
So why I am an arguing about a rushing defense when it allows 10 points. You already answered it for me. Tebow... What would that team have done with Oh I don't know, Peyton Manning as their Qb instead of Tebow. The best thing going for us right now, is their lack of Receivers.
Every bit of factual data supports that those two - Tyson and Glenn - were doing a tremendous job this season. In the Denver game, they both had 5 tackles and 1 assist, which is only behind DJ & JB ( ya know, the guys they were freeing up ). Blaming them is like blaming Cassel's play on the sale of John Denver's last album - it just doesn't make sense.
Sports - CBSSports.com Sports News, Fantasy Scores, Sports Videonfl/playerrankings/regularseason/RB
just click on DL
Those are purely stat based rankings that appear to be designed to emphasize fantasy football numbers. They are weighted in favor of things like sacks, safetys, defensive touchdowns and forced fumbles. They really don't take into account what the role of those players are in their respective defensive schemes. They treat 4-3 and 3-4 linemen, regardless of what position they play on the line all the same and assign them a number based only on raw stats.
These are exactly the kind of rankings that lead some people to believe that Dorsey and Jackson aren't that good, because they just look at stats, and don't understand the role of these players in the Chiefs defense. If you want to play fantasy football, don't take offensive linemen who play in a 3-4 defense.
Edited to add: Here is the direct link: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/playerr...gularseason/DL
as i understand it you don't think CBS Sports ranking is valid, of course bleacher report is written by just fans but you put all your faith in the expert opinion of Khaled Elsayed ??????
No, it doesn't. He got a sack, so that's good I guess if he's on your fantasy team.
Those stat's don't tell you how often a player was double teamed, what percentage of plays were ran in his direction, or if he was effective at acting as a 'blocker' to allow a linebacker to get through the line for a sack or a tackle for a loss. They don't tell you how many times a lineman 'pressured' a QB into making a bad throw or throwing the ball out of bounds. They don't tell you how many times a lineman 'jammed' a tight end or took a RB out of a play so they couldn't catch a pass.
I know he plays in a 4-3 scheme, but Julius Peppers is a great DE even when he doesn't get a lot of stats, because he is almost always double teamed, allowing teammates to get into the backfield, he is hard to throw over because of his size and vertical leap, and offenses are often forced to run plays to the opposite side of the field, limiting their options. None of those things show up in CBS's 'rankings.'
Tyson Jackson is good at what he does even though it doesn't produce big fantasy stat numbers, and Dorsey is good at what he does regardless of the fact that it gives him a decent ranking. Those numbers don't tell the whole story and are largely irrelevant to the discussion about how good they are. You have to actually watch the games to see if they are effective at doing what they are supposed to be doing or not.
You can't tell just by looking at 'fantasy' stats.
Roy i actually was responding to the posts of Xanathol & Pojote. I don't think our D line has done a good job although i will concede that dorsey has much improved and has reached the rank of average except jackson still is sub standard and our NT has been mediocre between gregg and before him edwards. a stellar NT would make a huge difference, but poe is not the guy, not yet anyway. our biggest problem was lack of offense and Decastro would complete the overhaul and make this an offense that can pound on the ground or cut you up thru the air. he would be my choice
I see. I thought you were responding to my earlier post which was critical of CBS's so-called rankings. I just thought I would throw my opinion into the mix.
At any rate, I think Dorsey and Jackson are better than you give them credit for. However, I agree with everything you said above from "... our NT has been mediocre ..." on forward. :smile
How is this a response to my posts? I linked to NFL.com's numbers and quite honestly, don't care what any journalists anywhere have as their 'ranking list' ( just check the QB thread one for a good laugh throughout ). My argument comes from facts and game tape. Facts show TJ & GD have some of the highest tackle totals for DL in the entire NFL. Facts are, Dorsey is double teamed as much as Wilt Chamberlain ( be it on the court or in the bedroom... ). Would a pass rush be nice? If the coaches wanted one from them, sure. Dorsey literally had to change his game from a penetrating 4-3 DT out of college to a 'catch a block' 2-gapper and you can see it every snap - not using his quick first step but instead slow, holding ground, feet keeping a good base, shuffling left & right instead of moving upfield, using his hands to hold a lineman at length instead of punching, swimming, ripping. As Romeo himself has stated, he is doing EXACTLY what he is told to do.
Let's flip this argument around - what base 3-4 DE do you think is performing better than either of these two?
That right is not 100% their fault, but their sole JOB is to take up blockers and let the rest of the team do the work, and as stated many times before, they were getting pushed back and by the time anyone made contact, and most of the time that contact ended in an immediate tackle and appeared to be a good stop, was a 4 yard gain because the guys up front were getting beat. I won't argue that Belcher makes wrong reads some times, or gets blocked easily. I won't argue that Eric Berry was a huge missing problem, and even then, McGraw getting hurt so often didn't help.
I know for a 100% fact that stats is a measurable tool to find a result based on certain variables. You can change all the variables you want to make the stats tailored to look good or look bad depending on what result you want. So while you can provide me stats on their individual performances, It does not support why this team was ranked 26th against the run. They are not 100% the cause of this, but they are a HUGE foundation for this problem and while I like Dorsey. I really don't want another LSU D lineman, because I feel that maybe they are more of a system/talented team than individually top talent players. I see Jackson blocked way to easy, and while he may have some stats showing that he is getting better, he is a complete bust of a 4th round pick and gets stood up so freaking easy.
Extracted from play by play stats in NFL.COM http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201111...yze=playbyplay:
(8:48) 27-K.Moreno right end pushed ob at KC 6 for 24 yards (47-J.McGraw).
(2:42) (Shotgun) 27-K.Moreno right end to DEN 36 for 22 yards (56-D.Johnson)
(1:28) (Shotgun) 19-E.Royal left end to KC 48 for 11 yards (48-R.Langford)
(1:37) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end pushed ob at DEN 36 for 19 yards (24-B.Flowers).
Those where just big plays, 76 yards. 244 total rushing yards - those 76 = 168 yards. 168 yards / 51 plays = 3.3 ypc
3.3 YPC I think it's fine for a 3-4 DL.
of the 13 nfl teams using a 3-4 defense, which is traditionaly better against the run than the 4-3 only indy is ranked lower against the run the KC so based on that i would guess a number of the DE's and NT's are better that ours.
This statistic is very misleading. For one, the Chiefs were run on the 4th most times in the league. Only the Colts, Rams, and Browns had more rush attempts against them. All of these teams have one thing in common: Anemic offenses. A lot of this can be blamed on the offense having a lot of 3 and outs, not scoring any points, and the team as a result being behind in the score.
If you look to a more telling stat, yards per carry, the Chiefs ranked 14th in the league by allowing 4.2 yards per carry. The Falcons also allowed 4.2 yards per carry to opposing running backs, but gave up 460 less yards on the year because teams ran the ball against them 136 times fewer than the Chiefs. This is no surprise, because they often had the lead.
The point is, the rush defense is slightly above average in this league, but the "rushing yards" stats are very inflated because of the offense's incompetency. With that said, you can get a better idea of why Jackson and Dorsey have been solid 3-4 DE's, and the ProFootballFocus article posted earlier goes on to highlight this as well.