http://www.walterfootball.com/offseason2010kc.php
I agree with some.......mostly what he says about Herm. Herm did some long term damage to the players that still linger there. If I were getting paid to write, I would guess a 3 win season too. That way when I'm wrong I could say that old phrase "who knew". This guy is like a restaurant reviewer. Peter King picked the Saints to end up 24th overall in the leage last year. Hard telling, but my guess would be 8-8 at worst for KC this year. :sterb184: :sterb003: :smilie_shoot: :2bang9hj:
About what I'd expect from you, picking that source. Walter has been down on anything Chiefs for years.
His site is good for finding information for the draft, not much else.
You can have your negative opinions and out looks, I'll live with mine.
Our team hasn't been good for years. There's probably a correlation.
The good news is that one of us is right and one of us is wrong. Time will be able to tell us which one is which.
I do find it funny that people are never able to say why they think we're going to be better this season than last one. Other than the fact that they really, really, really hope that we will. Oh, and because we drafted PLAYMAKERS!
We'll be better with the 2 new coordinators.....for starters. The second reason we'll be better is that we have been so bad!!!!!!
The first reason just doesn't convince me. Weis and Crennel had good runs six years ago with New England. They both have flamed out since. And both coordinators had a whole lot more talent on NE than they do here in KC.
And the second reason is what I said. People just really, really, really want it to be so.
I'm not the biggest Cassel supporter, but blaming him for his completion percentage shows how much of an ignorant idiot he is. I like how he didn't mention the Chiefs leading the league in drops, which is WHY Cassel coudln't get to 60% or better.
I agree about his arm-strength though, it's not good enough. Other than that, most of what he says is the cookie-cutter junk that every pessimist would say. Nothing new.
Good points. MY favorite all time QB for the Chiefs is Trent Green. He didn't have great arm strength and had a similiar first year with the Chiefs as Cassel did. Once DV fixed the offensive line, Trent excelled.
I saw nothing from Cassel last year to make me think he couldn't do the same as Trent Green did. He actually had a better 1st season given the circumstances. Can you imagine our offense with Tony G still on this team.
AT times, like any other QB, Cassel did force the ball. You can't blame all the dropped passes on him. Cassel's arm is stronger than most people give him credit for. There are many HOF QB's who didn't have cannons for arms, they were just smarter than most.
As far as why the Chiefs will be better.
1) Better coaches.
2) Better conditioned.
3) A year in the system.
4) What looks like a good draft.
5) Great team attitude.
6 Betterr players.
Now it seems some people believe the only way the Chiefs can improve is if they do things their way.
Those people need to take off the blinders and admit there is more than one way to skin a cat. And also realize the NFL today is not the same league it was a few years ago.
bwilliams...your statement saying people have never given legitimate reasons for why they believe the Chiefs will be better this season...is 100% inaccurate. There have been many, many, many debate posts made with giving legitimate reasons as to why one believes the Chiefs will be better this season...including my own. Some of those reasons have ranged from positive coaching changes to draft choices, as well, the Chiefs Organization doing all they can to bring fans back to Arrowhead filling seats...a possible positive to improving the team with the 12th man factor.
You may not agree with such legitimate reasons, but that doesn't make them non legitimate any more than your reasons for not believing the Chiefs will be better.
Your continuous negativity use to irritate me in the beginning, but as time has passed I've actually found myself to have grown fond of your negative posts. They make me giggle, and doing so is always a positive life aspect! Thanks!! :D
Out of curiosity...are you planning on attending our annual Chiefs Crowd tailgating get together the season opener...MNF? If so, I want to practice making funny faces in advance, so I can direct some towards you! HA! I just wanna know if you smile and giggle too, or always frown!
:lol:
I don't blame Cassel for every drop. There were many passes that bounced off players hands. That's true for every QB. But there were many, many others that were the result of a WR trying to catch a pass in traffic and getting clobbered.
There are a lot of ways to build a winning NFL team. Some, like the Colts, Packers, and Steelers, have focused on homegrowing stars and building their talent around their scheme, rather than vice versa. Others, like the Pats and Saints, have focused on signing a few superstar players, some yound talent, and a lot of serviceable vets, and work their schemes around their players, especially on defense. Some, like the Ravens and Vikings, are somewhere in between. To some teams (Colts, Steelers), off-field character is extremely important. To others (Pats, Ravens), it isn't as important.
But no winning team ignores its ability to protect the passer, its ability to stop the run, or its ability to rush the passer. Because those are the three things every team needs to win games in the NFL.
I dunno. You're right that the statement was probably too overencompassing. Some people do have legitimate reasons for thinking we'll be better.
But it bugs me to no end that people (main) excuses usually boil down to their hope that every underperforming player we have takes a magical step forward because we hired two coordinators, both of whom were fired in disgrace from their last coaching jobs.
I'm unfortunately out of the country on business every August to December. I get to watch NFL games on a torrent site, but I don't get to go to any of the games.
You don't think that Weiss and Crennel are an improvement?
Both of whom have also won 5 or 6 superbowls together.
As for underperforming players, you dont think a little NFL experience can make a player better? We have two top 5 picks on our D line, but expecting some improvement out of them is out of the question?
On top of that, add in a decent draft, some time in the system and all around better coaching is why most people here think we will have an improved team.
It bugs me to no end, that no matter what reason anyone has to say we have improved, you have a differing opinion with no real basis.
You say we can't rush the passer, but I think our secondary will help our pass rush greatly, can't protect the passer, Lilja and Wiegmann will improve our line, and I have already addressed the d line. If you have any reasonable argument against any of this, then I would love to hear it, but we are getting tired of hearing that we will be bad because we were bed before. Have we gone from worst to SB contender? Probably not, do we have a legitimate shot at winning our division with a relatively easy schedule and some improvement? Absolutely. ONce u r in the playoffs....who know? You gotta believe evey once in a while man, if u think they are never gonna win, why do you turn the game on?
Yeah, I am not the most positive about the Chiefs, but for this guy to say the only other good player is Dewayne Bowe and then to turn around and blame Cassel for his poor completion percentage, just is not well thought out in my opinion.
If KC receivers catch just half the passes they dropped, Cassel's completion percentage goes up to over 60% which is respectable.
Over the past three years, the Chiefs (10 wins) have been worse than every other team in the NFL except for the Rams (6 wins) and the Lions (9 wins). We were not one of the bottom three teams in the league because our starters were very talented.
Look at our Opening Day 2008 starters (last Herm year) and our opening day 2010 starters. We're starting twelve of the same twenty-two guys! Niswanger, Ron Edwards, Demorrio Williams, Albert, Waters, Hali, Bowe, Carr, Flowers, DJ, Cox, Dorsey, and (maybe) Page. Now, I like some of these guys. I love Flowers and Carr, I think Bowe gets a bad shake, Hali is seemingly thriving as a 3-4 OLB, and Waters is still our best OL.
But we're not getting out of the cellar if these are our best guys. And in two offseasons, our current braintrust have refused to plug the holes.
We need an offensive line upgrade very, very badly. Old, oft-injured, and small guys like Lilja and Wiegmann (neither of whom will be starting probably on Opening Day, Niswanger and Asamoah probably will) don't count. We need a real LT (I like Albert but he isn't good enough), a real RT, a new C, and a big OG to eventually take over for a declining Waters.
We need a pass rush very, very badly. Our DBs, no matter how good, will be torn apart if opposing QBs have ten seconds to make every throw. Except for Hali, we don't have anyone who can get in the backfield.
We very, very badly need some guys who can stop the run. If we're going to run a 3-4 defense, we need a big NT, some real ILBs, and a young guy to man the LOLB spot. We don't have them.
And you know the worst thing? Last year we were lucky. We had almost no injuries to key players. Cassel and Dorsey missed a couple games. But on the whole, the guys we consider key this year stayed healthy. What if we're not so lucky this year? What if continual double teams wear down our top-5 DEs? What if our lousy OTs get our QB killed? What if our QB gets Chambers/Bowe killed by throwing the ball time after time into traffic? How well will older guys like Waters, Vrabel, and Jones hold up?
And I love the Chiefs because I grew up loving the Chiefs. Not because they're winning Super Bowls or making smart decisions.
Nothing like writing the team off before they even play a preseason game.
I don't recall every writing that our only good player was Dwayne Bowe (although he is a good player). Bowe just takes too much $h!t from everyone. He managed to post back-to-back 1000 yard seasons with Huard/Thigpen/Croyle as his QBs. That isn't easy to do.
How many passes do you think our WRs dropped? I'm betting its not nearly as many as you think they did. And do you think that perhaps our WRs dropped some of the passes they did based on QB play? Do you think there's a reason why (for example) Peyton Manning's WRs drop very few passes and Brady Quinn's drop so many? It isn't just because they're better WRs. It's because the QB is good enough to get the ball to them in a way that the DB can't dislodge it.
You seem like the type that would be complaining the we did nothing about the secondary if we spent all our picks on the lines, and if we spent it on pass rush, you would complain that we didnt adress the running game. Its not all going to change overnight, but if u see now improvement in this team over the last couple then I assume you arent paying that much attention. Im not concerned in any way with what happened three years ago. That bears no relevance on the team we have right now. I dont think anyone here thinks that we are a SB contender right now, but most do think we have improved. I know everyone says we should have upgraded at NT...with who? Who was the Dline saviour that we passed on? Who was the freakishly great pass rusher that we did not take? You are quick to point out the problems but you have not provided one viable solution where we could have addressed some of these problems. If the talent is not there then why take players at that position? Do you really think a rookie NT is going to outperform any NT we have now? I guess if we had picked a NT then we would have all next season to listen to how he was a bust and we wasted a draft pick. I have nothing else to say on the subject since you seem to be dead set on pointing out problems and complaining than anything else. Enjoy the season, there will be no "I told ya so" at the end of the year!!:bananen_smilies046:
I do think they're improvements. I also think that guys like McCluster, Arenas, Moeaki, etc. are improvements. I just don't think that they equate to more wins. And I don't think they're the cure-all that people are seemingly brainwashed into thinking they are.
Crennel and Weis are going to try to run schemes that I don't believe can be run with our current personnel. I do not think Weis's precision passing scheme can be run with our sieve of an OL. I do not think Crennel's 3-4 scheme can be run without real ILBs or a NT. Really, do you think they can?
Well, you're wrong. My posts pre-draft are still out there. I've never said anything other than that we need a new OL and front seven if we want to win games.
Our team is not better in any appreciable way than it was three years ago. That's the point. In the past three years we've gained some nice pieces (Berry, Bowe, Flowers). We've also lost some great players (Tony G., Jared Allen). Are we better or worse? In 2007 we won four games. In 2009 we won four games. And we still have exactly the same problems (pass rush, offensive line, run defense) we had in 2008 that we have in 2010.
Most people on this board do. Most people not on this board don't.
First, a rookie NT would absolutely outperform Edwards. Maybe not be a lot, but you can't do much worse at the position than Edwards did last year.
Second, a NT won't come in and immediately start kicking butt. But you can't run a 3-4 without one. What does this mean?
1. You bite the bullet, draft a NT, and groom him; or
2. You don't run the 3-4.
This middle-ground stuff where we're running the 3-4 with a terrible NT is about the worst thing we can do.
Third, as for a pass rush, I'd have tried in FA or in the draft to get a pass rush. Sergio Kindle is an injury risk, but I'd rather risk him than spend a pick on backups like McCluster and Arenas. Koa Misi is a guy I'd have love to have drafted at 2a instead of McCluster.
Fourth, the reason we don't draft players with talent is because our GM and coaches are overconfident in their abilities to coach up our current personnel. They think they're smart enough that they can turn Ron Edwards/Shaun Smith into a legit NT. They think their schemes are more important than the talent level of the players in them. And they're wrong.
Again, you're wrong. The best thing aout message boards is that when something is written it stays written.
And the second best thing is that one of us is right, and one is wrong. We're either on the right path or the wrong one. We'll find out in a few months.
There's a site that was posted here a few months ago where you can watch every chiefs game this season.
Maybe you should check out how many passes our receivers actually DID drop. I think you'd be surprised.
Oh and Bowe is overrated.
Post the site if you can find it. That would be awesome to have.
You're right. Just found a site that listed them. Our WRs dropped 32 passes last season, which is more than I figured (or RBs/TEs dropped another 12 on top). Honestly, do you really think our QB is blameless in this? Or to put it another way, why do you think Chiefs WRs were dropping passes when other WRs weren't?
Bowe is underrated, not overrated. He's never played with a top-20 QB but managed to be a 1000 WR his first two years. That's not easy. Randy Moss couldn't do that when he was in Oakland. Terrell Owens couldn't do it in Buffalo. Almost no WRs can.
Give Bowe a top-10 QB, and he'd be a top-5 WR.
All I'm saying is I remember a lot of passes that were right in the basket and were just dropped.
Here's the site I was talking about.
http://www.kcchiefsgames.com
God, did anyone every tell you your annoying? You're like all the other new posters around here, come to complain about sh*t and never truly discuss anything but the same crap over and over.
I think that's a bit harsh but yeah ... I've criticized the lack of attention to the O-Line but I think the Chiefs have made significant improvements in other areas. The overall talent we picked up in the draft is quite impressive.
I think the comments about Cassel are premature. Wait until he has some time to throw, and if he still sucks, then bag him.
Ok I understand that some there is a lot to be down about with this team over the past few seasons. Here is the problem that I have with a lot of the negative posters on this site. Some NOT ALL have already doomed this team to be the same team that we had last season. You ignore the HUGE upgrades that this team has made in coaching. Coaching may not be the biggest thing but it is the starting point. If a rookie comes into the NFL with bad coaching he is not going to reach his full potential. Thats just how it is. To get the upgraded coaching in place will help this team both now and in the long run.
The draft/free agent pick ups may not be anything that would blow you away but Scott Pioli has a history of this. He is not one that wants to win the off season he wants to build a TEAM. Outside of a couple of guys he did not go after big names with the PATS I think if you asked any fans of the PATS they would take what they got. Have a little faith give the rookies and free agents a CHANCE before you say how horrible our offseason has been. Who nos they might just surprise you. I say CHIEFS to the playoffs this year. :chiefs:
Originally Posted by Canada http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/re...s/viewpost.gif
I dont think anyone here thinks that we are a SB contender right now, but most do think we have improved.
I don't think most on this board realistically believe the Chiefs will be a Super Bowl Contender in 2010.
However...I DO!! I believe each and every new season that the Chiefs are a Super Bowl Contender! Seriously, I DO! Now, one would think that after 39 consecutive seasons of my witnessing their not returning to a Super Bowl...I would give up and admit to being a blind fool! OH!...but not I...I will believe the Chiefs are a SB contender each season until I die, then I'm gonna believe it from Heaven! I'm gonna believe it eternally!
Why not believe it? It's better to think postively than negatively, forget realistically...I face reality daily, I'd rather not go there with my Chiefs, HA!
GO CHIEFS!! Super Bowl Champions 2010! YEEHAW!! :yahoo:
My 2 cents on why I think we will be a lot better next year. I'm predicting an 8-8 or better season.
1.) Everyone is so fast to point to the line as being horrendous. This article goes to point out that the line was way better with Charles in the game. That's not going to change next year, and we did have some nice additions in the offseason to bolster the line. I'm not that worried about the line going into the year, especially if they can play like they did the last half of the season.
2.) The additions of McCluster and Urban are big. Every week last year there was a move being made at the 3rd receiver position. The guys in there were bad. Now I won't be fast to call McCluster a great WR, but I certainly think he is going to help the passing attack. Urban was a very serviceable WR for Arizona, but was lost on a team with a depth chart consisting of some excellent WRs. Having a weapon in the slot is going to take a lot of pressure off Bowe and Chambers. And that's going to help Bowe have a huge year.
3.) Jamaal Charles, Thomas Jones. Over 2500 yards combined last year (of course on 2 different teams). The running game is going to flourish, and both of these guys are going to stay much fresher throughout the season. The article talks about not giving Charles 25 carries. I'm glad they didn't. RBs break down so fast in this league. We saw it around week 13 or 14 when Charles was in obvious pain on the sidelines. I don't blame him for putting Charles out there to take a beating the whole game.
4.) The secondary is above average. With Carr, Flowers, and Berry, this secondary is going to be very good and make a lot of plays next year. Enough said.
5.) I agree with Bwilliams, not much was done to address the need at NT and run stopping. My thoughts are that now that the offense has a few more weapons, the defense will benefit because we might actually be able to get a lead early, forcing teams to throw the ball. Again, the secondary is something to be confident in. Forcing teams to throw the ball is going to play to the Chiefs' advantage. It's all a matter of executing, and I'm confident in the coaching staff that his been brought in to draw up a game plan for every game that these players can execute.:chiefs:
Are you really so full of yourself that you automatically assume that I was referring to you with my comments? The subject of this discussion was an article written by some other guy on another website. It was the writer of THAT article I was referring to who as the person who was bragging about how good Bowe was and how bad Cassel is. I did not even quote you in any way shape of form and never claimed that you had said anything. In fact, you are so far removed from my discussion point, I am not even sure why I am bothering to respond to you.
Now since you seem to want to call me out on the carpet, let's then get into this discussion.
The Chiefs had 48 dropped passes according to the best numbers I can find. It is a stat that is not really official in the NFL and as you rightly pointed out, it is hard to always point to the receiver as the problem, however, I think it is safe, as I stated in my post, that half of the dropped passes are from the receiver failing to make the catch from a good throw from the quarterback.
I think it is safer to say that even more than that should go towards the receivers since the stat precludes that the receiver got his hands on the ball in a fashion that would indicate the ability to catch the ball. Even though the QB may have not thrown the ball perfectly. But let's say for argument that 50% are directly on the receiver.
Now if you consider the 48 dropped passes, that would indicate that 24 SHOULD have been caught. Cassel completed 271 out of 493 attempts with a 55% completion percentage. If you add 24 to the 271 you get 295 completions out of 493 with a 59% average. Not quite over 60% as I said in my original post, but would have been a respectable stat to say the least and would have been more in line with the numbers he put up in New England that made him the talk of the NFL in 2008.
So why does Bowe take so much crap? Because of two key issues with him:
1. He got busted for steroid use. That is just stupid and if he is going to cheat, then he should be able to put up 1,000 yard games. Like it or not, that criticism is valid. Bowe has to dig himself out of that hole before he can be considered a leader on this team again. Say what you want about Cassel, he is a better player that Bowe for this one reason alone in my opinion.
2. He led the league in dropped passes even considering a 4 game suspension. The worse is that the vast majority of the drops were passes that were well placed and clearly should have been caught. Bowe can make a miraculous catch one minute, and then drop the perfectly thrown, easy pass the next. There were far too many passes were our receivers dropped passes without ever being close to a defensive back.
At the simplest point, Bowe has one job, catch the damn ball. Beyond anything else he does on the field, it is his one simple task and he hs had problems in that area. He was not alone of course, and realistically, he was not the worse culprit, but considering what he is being paid and the position he was drafted at, he should be much better in this area than he is.
The astounding thing is that his hands have been getting progressively worse year after year.
OK, I am off my soap box now. Just do me a favor, perhaps make sure of what you speak before you call someone out on the board eh?
You're right and wrong (in my opinion). We picked up good players in the draft. Berry is going to be a perennial Pro Bowler at FS. Asamoah will probably (hopefully) start over Lilja at RG. I like Arenas to be a good nickel CB. McCluster should be a good KR/PR, Wildcat distraction, and (maybe) slot WR, although I'll believe that last one when I see it. Moeaki is oft-injured, but talented. All of our picks are high character guys who will be 100% loyal.
But all of that stuff doesn't equate to wins. We aren't going to win games starting the worst front seven in the league. We aren't going to win games while starting the 2nd worst OL in the league (after Buffalo). We aren't going to win if we keep expecting low drat picks and the dregs and offcasts of other teams to be our starters. We aren't going to win so long as we pretend everything is fine. Because everything is not fine.
I agree. But how is he ever going to get time to prove himself when we start OTs that wouldn't see the field on 30 other teams?
Look, I agree that good coaching can do a lot for a player, the same way that bad coaching can break a player. But (1) you're basing a lot of faith on a couple of NE guys when no coach whose left NE has done good anywhere else; (2) we're starting a bunch of lousy vets (D. Williams, Ron Edwards, Corey Mays, Page possibly) who have hit their ceiling; and (3) our coaches are unwaiveringly running schemes for which they don't have the personnel.
It's the 3rd one that bugs me the most. When the Pats won their 1st SB, they ran a simplified passing offense (w/ some trickery thrown in) and a 4-3. They did so because they had a near-rookie QB and because they didn't have the personnel to run the 3-4. Why aren't we doing the same?
Don't you realize that we've done the opposite of the Pats in building this team? The Pats thrived because (1) they had Brady; (2) they drafted their OL; and (3) they drafted their DL. Not because they drafted safeties, backups, and KR/PR in the first two rounds. They also brought in a bunch of good FAs who propelled them to a SB. They didn't sign a couple and call it a day.
My posts have nothing to do with how good of players our rookies are. My point is that they could be the best rookie FS, 3WR, 3CB, RG, and TE ever, and it still won't help our win total. Because we have the worst RT, ILBs, and NT in the league.
Did I call you out? I didn't realize writing:
Was calling you out. I didn't know you were so sensitive. This might help:
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And as the author of the article never called Bowe our only good player either, you can forgive me for not realizing about whom you were speaking. I mean, it's hard to respond when you're not concerned with being truthful.
Here's the thing. Why do you think Lilja and Wiegmann are good? Wiegmann is small and old, and Lilja was cut because the Colts needed to upgrade him. I liked the Asamoah pick, but he's a rookie and can only do so much.
Albert and O'Callaghan are the 2nd worst OT tandem in the league (behind Buffalo's). They are miserable in protecting the QB. That's our biggest problem.
McCluster is a converted RB who will need a few years before he's a legit threat. Urban's best year was in 2008 when he caught 34 balls for 448 yards.
They might both be very good, but it's crazy to start penciling them in this year as anything but question marks.
I agree that our running game might be immense. I'd feel a lot better though if we had some big OL for them to run behind.
We need a SS, but I agree entirely. Those three should keep improving and I'm grateful we have them. That being said, no DB can cover a WR indefintely. If we can't get pressure from our front seven, it doesn't matter how good our DBs are.
Time will tell. I wish I had your confidence.
I didn't say Lilja and Wiegmann were good. We don't even know if they will be starting. I'm more saying that if the line plays like they did the last 8 games last year, then that is definitely acceptable.
Question marks I agree, but in my opinion McCluster will be able to make this transition. He lined up in the slot in college some. He will be very versatile for the Chiefs. He has the athletic ability to be very good as a slot WR and make big plays. The offense now has 4 legitimate weapons in McCluster, Bowe, Chambers, and T. Jones.
I'm looking forward to having Urban. I certainly think he is an upgrade over the barrage of guys that were trying to play the 3rd/4th WR position last year. Looking at his stats is misleading though. This guy was buried behind 4 talented WRs in Fitzgerald, Boldin, Breaston and Doucet. I think there are good things to come out of him once given a chance to play.
Jamaal Charles has the ability to make the line better than they really are. He's that good, and we saw it from him last year. I'm not going to discount a team because there guys aren't any good on paper. This team has a great attitude right now and coaches that are going to be able to put together a great game plan week after week, like I said before. I'm excited for the season.
The new coaches from new england that I am baseing my hope in are now back in there element. YOU CAN NOT compare the role of an OC or DC to a Head Coach.
As for how this team is being built this is no were near the complete team that we are going to see in the years to come this is only the start of it. If every NFL owner were as inpatient as you there would be 0 coaches in the NFL hall of fame. GIVE IT TIME. I think that Haley has won more games as a Head coach then any of us on this site. And Pioli has more rings then anyone on this site. Give them time dont pretend you no more about building a team then them. Give this team a CHANCE just a Chance.