The best part about this entire thread is how irrelevant it is. #7 will be starting QB on day 1 and he will sink or swim on his own merit and this entire back and forth will not matter.
This season will put to end any and all speculation
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The best part about this entire thread is how irrelevant it is. #7 will be starting QB on day 1 and he will sink or swim on his own merit and this entire back and forth will not matter.
This season will put to end any and all speculation
No he didnt. He wanted more control weis didnt want to give it to haley. Hence why weiss left before the season was over and then came back to the kc area before haley was fired last season a final f u to todd.
And if you havent read many of her posts she has first hand knowledge of the chiefs organization if you listen to anyone it should ve connie jo.
Haley was the HC. But his superiors blocked him from doing his job, by doing it for him. 09 was a bad year because it was a whole new staff/system for a 2-12 team.
Haley never had a chance to succeed with his offense, because he had his chance revoked.
The problem at OC was that the HC was not bro.g allowed to run the offense he wanted.
How well the offense would have done with the HC being allowed to do his.job is purely speculative. But the issue with lack of communication was a direct result of the GM trying to do.the HCs job for him.
Man that is a tough read..Wish KC had $ New 49er stadium round tha block. Their QB zucks 2 Night crowd
Yeah....I didn't understand it either. Beer post maybe?
Local media yesterday said Stanzi is getting worse each day and looked aweful yesterday against Arizona. That being said, Cassel is so much better than anything Arizona has, and jokingly said they could get 4 first round picks from Arizona they are hurting so bad for a QB.
Even said that Quinn would be their starter as he was a whole lot better than what they had. They were not able to connect on routes run against air.
Stanzi looked alright yesterday. It was the day before that he looked horrible. Cassel had looked great this camp so far.
Just out of curiosity, how many times have you turned around a 2-14 team into a 10-6 NFL division champion?
Or do you always fail to support your judgements?
With the 11th ranked scoring defense, #1 rushing offense, and #30 passing offense, let's give credit where it's due--The O-line, JC and TJ, the defense, and the coaching staff...namely Weis (who was calling plays) and Crennel.
Cassel played well, but he was a small part. And when he was called upon to carry the team, he responded by going 9/18 for 70 yards and 3 INTs in the Wild card game.
The Chiefs need to look for a QB that can put the team on his back. I'm not blind to the fact that it's difficult, but Matt Cassel is not the guy that can do that, it's that simple.
Pretty easy for you to assume all credit away from the HC there, isn't it?
We don't know how much of he offense was a result of who's play-calling/design.
But, for my money, I would give most of the offensive credit to the incredible individual talent of JC.
Nobody else was able to run with that blocking, and the running game was what slowed the pass-rush, in my opinion.
But, all spin and speculation aside, Todd Haley coached this team from 2-14 to 10-6 division champs.
How about if you ACTUALLY give credit where it is due, instead of spinning away from reality?
So you're willing to go on the record and say that the head coach that was 4-12 calling plays deserves the credit after a brilliant playcaller in Charlie Weis comes in and the team all the sudden jumps to 10-6?
Weis then leaves and the team starts 0-3 in 2011. Matt Cassel is 54-82 for 428 yards and a 3/5 TD/INT ratio through those first 3 games, after throwing 7 total INTs through 16 games in 2010.
What exactly did Todd Haley do that had a bigger impact than Weis or Crennel in 2010? Seriously? The biggest impact he had was running Charlie Weis out of town.
:beat_DeadHorse:Why are we doing this again?
Cassel is the QB right now and we will have all season to decide if he is worth a ship or not. Cassel is the QB and the only thing that might change that is poor performance. It is all wait and see now.
Fair enough. I'm just not big on arguing with fellow Chiefs fans. Last I checked we were all supposed to be on the same side.
I say just keep "discussing" it until the season starts and we see how cassel plays.
I am willing to deal in reality, as opposed to making excuses for success.
He was the HC, while Crennel and Weiss were merely coordinators.
What exactly did he do? No need for BS speculation here. He coached the team. Any guess as to how much involvement he had with play-calling is just one's own imagination.
But, to share a bit of imagination..... Weiss left after that one season, suggesting that he was not thrilled with some interference in running the offense. Pretty easy to make a BS statement that Haley was far more involved with the offense than what you want to give the guy credit for.
And the following season started out at 0-3.... With a shortened off-season, ridiculous injuries, and they followed that up with four straight wins, even without the central cog of the offense (JC).
But the dream world you are presenting is still just a total failure in the face of the written-in-stone fact that Todd Haley led this team from 2-12 to 10-6 division chaps in two years.
You can spin away from it all you want. But that stone cold fact will be right here waiting for when you are done denying reality.
haley already is in conflict w/big ben......what a shock!!!
I'm the one denying reality? You make it sound like it wasn't 100% obvious that Charlie Weis called the plays all year. Let me spell it out for you again:
1.) Todd Haley comes to coach the team in 2009. He calls the plays and the team goes 4-12.
2.) Charlie Weis is named as the offensive coordinator in 2010, the team goes 10-6 and gets a wild card berth. There was no secret who was calling the plays, as you make it out to seem like.
ESPN's AFC West Insider Bill Williamson seems to agree here by stating:
"How much Weis had to do with the Chiefs' success is open to conjecture, but players said he contributed greatly to the improvement that took Kansas City to a 10-6 record. Running back Jamaal Charles, wide receiver Dwayne Bowe and Cassel made the Pro Bowl after the Chiefs won their first AFC West title since 2003.
Cassel's improvement was dramatic; he had 16 TD passes and 16 interceptions when Haley was calling plays, but under Weis -- until the last two games -- he played nearly mistake-free." (Source: Bill Muir to be Kansas City Chiefs' new O-coordinator - ESPN)
3.) We can again look to Haley's playcalling record when he stripped Weis of playcalling duties in the wildcard game against the Ravens (source: Report: Haley stripped play-calling duties from Weis | ProFootballTalk). The Chiefs went into halftime down 10-7. They failed to score a point in the second half.
4.) Todd Haley gets fired midway before the 2011 season even finishes.
You continue to speak that I'm not "dealing in reality" and living in a "dream world", when it's 100% obvious that the critical link between the Chiefs offense and success has been Charlie Weis in the the last 3 years. That is the only constant when you look back at when this offense had success. And to say it's not dealing in reality is ridiculous, it was also a "stone cold fact" that Charlie Weis called the plays for the Chiefs in 2010 (except for the 2nd half of an important wildcard game that the Chiefs then got shutout for).
You're telling me that Todd Haley didn't get along with someone...I'm shocked.
There is no argument here. You are just continuing to spin, and here you are right back at the plain fact that Todd Haley coached this team from 2-14 to 10-6 division champs in two years.
Why would anybody ever try so hard to argue against reality so fervently?
Oh..... The 2-14 team Haley inherited wasn't awesome the first year he was there, but got good in the second year?:efpge:
And you are presenting the obvious as some kind of evidence of..... Anything at all?
Why? Would you expect immediate success the first season, and then no improvement the second year?
Sure Todd Haley sucks at getting along with the people he works with. But....... He STILL coached this team from 2-14 to 10-6 division champs in two years.
Deny reality all you like, but it just does not go away.
"You made it sound like....." Ummm.... Like reality? Sorry if you don't like that. But there were definitely two hands in the offense, although that, as well as your ridiculous "100%" claim.are speculation. As is your desperate act of finding someone who agrees with you.
Weiss did a good job. Todd Haley, being the HC, did a good job. But, in my opinion, both are fired if JC had gone out with injury to start THAT season.
I get that Haley is gone, and, as such, does not get the "loyalty" of the teams fans.
But denying him the credit he EARNED is just sad.
By the way Ryfo... Sorry if the tone seems disrespectful. It is not meant for that purpose. It is just that I am shocked by this refusal to credit Haley for his successes with this team.
You are quite clearly a smart person, and a dedicated Chiefs fan. I respect you very much.
(Just hoping to clear up my "tone" here.)
GOOD!!!!!
And I am not at all sure I disagree with you. But for now he is our QB. If this year he looks like he did in 2010 then maybe he should stick around. If this year he looks more like last year than he did in 2010 then he needs to go down the road and we have a REAL problem. A GREAT team with no QB worth mentioning.....which is why I have said repeatedly we should consider shopping Bowe. If we could get a 1st round pick for him then I suspect we could trade picks in such a way as to have our choice of QBs in next year's draft. Cassel....with the right coaching And a GREAT running game AND a stout offensive line might well be able to win us a few playoff games....maybe even a Superbowl but he surely isn't going to do it without an overachieving team around him. But right now, he is what we have.
I WANT us to win this year, but I would HAPPILY trade Bowe now for a shot at a serious QOTF.
I don't take it as disrespectful at all, it's a simple disagreement as to who deserves the credit. Sure, Haley was the head coach. And yes, he does deserve some credit. But I feel that the addition of Weis was the primary reason for the offense being successful.
I'm trying to think of an example to highlight how I'm looking at this. Let's say an employee at a company develops some new ground-breaking technology that in turn causes his company to earn a lot of money. Who deserves more credit? The employee or his manager?
And yes, Weis was calling "most plays." Thus my reasoning why he deserves the credit for the offensive turnaround.
Charlie Weis will call most plays in Kansas City | ProFootballTalk
That's all I'll say, good chat chief31, as always.
Fair enough. Although, I thought the play-calling was still pretty sad in 2010, only to be saved by the amazing skills of JC and some good, conservative QBing.
I think Cassel, Weiss and Haley (the whole team, for that matter) all owe a great deal of their 2010 success to JCs unique ability.
It took him a while to get comfortable, but later in the season, he started hitting the "gap" so quick that defenses were not able to get into the positions that were designed for defending those gaps.
I hope he continues to get opportunities at HB. I'd like to see more.
i think the charles/hillis combo will be quite formidable. maybe the best in the nfl
I really hope the project of Making fall down against the wind McCluster a HB is over. Seriously, my three year old would make a tackle on McCluster look like he is getting blown up. As you said he was hitting those gaps last year but at the slightest bit of contact was tackled sometimes as mucgh as an arm tripping him up. He is better suited to be used on a reverse, or as a slot back where he has room to run. His talents were wasted last year as a HB. The Chiefs went to him way to much and was becoming very predictable when he would get the ball because he can't pass block and won't get the ball much on short yardage situations.
He had as higher Yards Per Carry average than anybody else on the team in 2011, at 4.5.
Given more experience, I am sure he would improve on some things. It is difficult to get real comfortable with everything that is going on when you are getting less than 8 carries per game. It takes a little longer to get comfortable with it all.
Or you could just rush to the judgement that leading the team in YPC is horrible, and you should never do that job again.
That just isn't for me though.
McCluster showed some serious acceleration at times last year. I think our seriously bad OL made the RB's and Cassel look especially bad about 9 games last year. I still am amazed how the OL could look like monsters one game, then like wet toilet paper the next. We won 7 games last year with a horrible OL. Just getting them to average will see us winning 10 games, easily, this year.