Questions about Defense
Hi, I'm an Andy Reid fan from Philly (started a couple other threads) and a new Chiefs fan. I'm trying to study up on your roster. Can some of you help me out with some of this?
It looks like you have several very high draft picks on defense who look like busts. Here are my impressions, without knowing much about the Chiefs. You guys can tell me if I'm on the right/wrong track.
Tyson Jackson: Looks like a bust. Some one who physically would be ideally suited to play 3-4 DE, but has not been in the least bit productive. Probably makes a lot of money. Some one I'm guessing Reid will get rid of when he cleans house. Am I missing something with him? Does he have any redeeming qualities?
Glen Dorsey: Looks like a bust, but possibly miscast. If Reid brings in a 4-3 DC, possibly Dorsey could excel in that role. He looks like he has an enormous contract. I'm guessing that if they remain a 3-4 team he might get cut. If they switch to a 4-3, the new GM might ask him to take a pay cut, restructure and then compete as a 4-3 DT. Am I reading his situation correctly?
Dontari Poe: My Eagles drafted DT Fletcher Cox one pick later, who turned out to be a stud. Poe looks like some one who could only play 3-4 NT. Does he have the quickness and motor to play 4-3 DT? Reid likes defensive linemen with "motors" who are relentless on every down. If they switch schemes, I could picture him as trade bait. What are the impressions of him?
Tamba Hali: I'm a Penn State grad. Love this guy. He's an Andy Reid type of guy with the relentless motor. Seems like he could play both 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE equally well. Is that correct? He's getting up there in age. I just watched Trent Cole hit 30 and fall off considerably this past season. Hope Hali has a little more left in the tank.
Dereck Johnson: This guy seems like a stud, but he's 30 years old. Does he call the signals on the defense? Wear the helmet with the headset? If they switch to a 4-3, would he hold up well as the MIKE LB?
Justin Houston: This seems like the type of guy that Reid would want to build his defense around. A talented/productive young guy. Not much of a cap hit. Problem is, what to do with him if they switch to a 4-3? Seems too small to play DE, and too much of a pure pass rusher to play OLB in a 4-3. Does he have experience as a 4-3 DE in college and does he have a frame to bulk up 10-15 pounds?
I know that Berry and Flowers are good. The other guys in the secondary need to go? Has Berry lived up to expectations?
You're right on with just about all of them.
Jackson is nothing more than a run-stopper with absolutely no pass rush ability and can't get on the field on 3rd down.
Dorsey is about the same thing as Jackson, only he's injury prone. Both he and Jackson should be gone next year.
Poe wasn't terrible for a rookie, but we'll see if he gets better next year. He played a lot of snaps iirc. I wouldn't be terribly upset if we traded him, but we would be thin on DL depth if we did.
Hali wasn't nearly as good this last year and I do think he's lost a step, but he should be good for about 10 sacks a year for the next few.
DJ was an underachiever, but ever since he started playing with more intensity, rather than just relying on talent, he's been one of the best ILBs in the league. He used to have trouble taking on blocks, and that was mostly due to a lack of intensity. I have no doubt he could handle Mike LB in the 4-3.
Houston is a pure pass rusher, much like Von Miller. He does have the ability to stop the run and shows great lateral quickness on outside runs and boot legs. His issue is tha the disappears at times in games. The guy has the potential to be elite in this league.
Hope this helps!
Sounds good. Reid will figure it out. If he goes to a 4-3, he'll have a plan. Reid doesn't take a dump without having a plan.
Our defense is soo frustrating. There is talent on the roster as we do have 5 pro bowlers but hell we have 5 first rounders out there they shoul be talented.
If Andy Reid gets our offense to score points I think our defense is ping to really shine. The Chiefs D was defending an awful short field entirely too many times. So it was inevitable the points we would give up.
I hope they stay in the 3-4. But it seems that 4-3 under is a route we may go according to what people around here are saying.
He'll fix the offense. Don't worry about that.
As far as defense. I don't know that it's a given that he'll switch to a 4-3. I mean, he probably will. It's what he's used to. But he generally tends to be a little more hands off with the defense, leaving that up to the defensive coaches. He'll look at that with an open mind.
Dorsey, Jackson, and Poe did what was asked of them. They stopped the run and kept the O-linemen off the linebackers and allowed them to make plays. Dorsey and Jackson specifically were never asked to provide pressure on the QB. Pioli and Crennel said as much when they were talking about Poe's role going into the season. Both Jackson and Dorsey showed incredible ability for making plays behind the line of scrimmage while playing in the SEC at LSU. The defensive scheme they've been playing in the last 3 or 4 years has not been conducive to their talents for making such plays. That's why you see DJ making so many plays when he shoots the gaps... he's able to make those plays because the D-linemen are doing their jobs.
That being said, I don't think Jackson has a place on a 4-3 defense and with his salary ballooning up to 14M this season, I could see a trade, release, or perhaps a re-structure coming for him.
Dorsey has all the tools to be an elite pass-rushing DT in the form of Warren Sapp or Albert Haynesworth. He just wasn't in the right system to show that ability.
Hali is still a top 5 pass rusher in this league. He didn't "lose a step." Hali was double-teamed and sometimes triple teamed EVERY week. The opposing offenses did a great job neutralizing Hali. They could afford to do that because the Chiefs rarely blitzed and didn't get pressure from anywhere other than Houston on the other side. It may have LOOKED like Hali "lost a step," but in reality, the offense couldn't stay on the field and the truth was Hali and the rest of the defense was absolutely gassed for most of the season. Put an offense who can play with a lead or at the very least give the defense a breather and you'll see the Chiefs as a top 10 or even top 5 defense. There's way too much talent on that defense for them NOT to be a dominant defense.
Hali, Johnson, Berry, Dorsey, Jackson, and Poe are all 1st round picks. Houston and Flowers SHOULD have been 1st round picks. There's a TON of talent on this defense... don't worry.
Hey Francisco, how ya doin? i'm in NE PA and have been to Big Charlies bar in south Philly to watch a couple of CHIEFS games. maybe we can meet up there next season. Dorsey would do well in a 4-3 as well as Poe who is unbelievably quick for a big man. glad to have you on board. my best friend is an eagles fan who hates reid and vick.
Exactly so!!!! The D had EVERYTHING against it this year......
Originally Posted by nigeriannightmare
An offense that couldn't score points. They pretty much knew that to win a game they were going to have to hold the opposing offense to under 14 points.
In addition, our offense was turning the ball over left and right by INT and fumble.
Even worse, we couldn't even get a few 1st downs on a lot of possessions. So often when our D stopped the opposing offense 5 minutes later they were right back on the field with the opposition having the ball right where they were 5 minutes earlier.
Put all that together for a few games and you have a flat out demoralized Defense.
I know they are all professionals and get paid a lot of money, but when you stack all that against them and then the coach stands up in front of the media and says he just doesn't know what is wrong....well it's got to be hard for even the best of professionals not to get demoralized.
Hell...this season even demoralized all us Chiefs fans.
Give our D an offense that scores some points and when they don't at least gets a few first downs so that when our D does go back on the field they at least are starting their defensive series somewhere between the opponents goal line and their 30 and I think we will have a pretty strong D.
I don't think there is anything wrong with our D that having an offense that scores some points and moves the ball a bit won't cure.
Yeah, this is why, as an outsider, I think that the discussion of your defensive line is interesting. Three highly drafted guys who are supposed to be talented, but are not getting the numbers. Is that the system? If it's because they play in a 3-4 and their job is to get guys off of linebackers, how do you explain the success of other 3-4 DEs like Seymore and JJ Watt? And why would you draft some one with the 3rd and 5th overall picks just to occupy blockers while some one else makes plays?
I don't know if Reid will go to a 4-3 or keep a 3-4, but I don't see him keeping some one around who makes $14 million and doesn't make plays, even if it's what he had been asked to do. If the defense was ranked 20th, something wasn't working. So that's why I'm trying to figure it out, in the same way that Reid is looking at it trying to figure it out.
Chiefnut, your best friend sounds like a typical Eagles fan. They all hate Reid, but they all hate just about everybody. The only Eagle who was really loved in Philadelphia was Brian Dawkins. I can't think of another player or coach since at least Reggie White that I can say that about, and I'm not even sure about him. But I can tell you guys this: they're all wrong. Andy Reid is a great coach and you guys in Kansas City are very fortunate to have him. Don't listen to the haters in Philly.
I'm pretty sure Romeo used a 2-gap system. It's still ridiculous that they can get no pressure when a QB drops back to pass.
Originally Posted by FranciscoD'anconia