I would hate to feel this way....

[honda522]

From listening to the game from work, yeah I got ripped off, D Bowe had alot of drops. Every time I went by the radio, I heard Mitch saying Bowe dropping the ball.

I am getting sick of the drops, just as everyone else. Why don't we put our selves out of misery?

I propose we trade Bowe. He is obviously no value to this team, maybe other than the fact that he helps take the double team....

Either way, if we can get a third or forth round draft pick and pick up someone who actually wants to come out and play some football.

Imagine the field goals we could of had all this year. Imaigine the wins. Not saying he is the cause of all the problems, but it might be a start. I love D Bowe, but he doesn't look like he is playing with his heart.

Who knows though...maybe its just the coaching staff.

[Canada]

Just as a coach gets mad, so do alot of other people. It really isn't an exclusive feature to coaches.

If that is acceptable, then is it acceptable for a player to react as any normal person might, to being humiliated?

Is it going to be ok if Bowe knocks Haley on his *** this week?

Or do we call for his head?

How about if he just gets in Haley's face and gives him a taste of his own medicine?

Maybe he grabs Haley's shirt and gets his attention some. That cool?

This whole "Coaching with an iron fist" concept seems awefully popular around here. It just doesn't seem to be effective.

Yell at Pollard, Pollard reacts, Pollard is fired. Pollard goes and makes another team better.

Yell at and demote Bowe, bowe drops even more passes.

Hell, yell at all the WRs, they all drop a bunch of passes.

Bench our top defender, he never sees the field.

And we have a team that ranks 28th and 30th on offense/defense. (24th and 31st a year ago)

Sure doesn't seem like making enemies of your employees is working out all that great, so far. But then, I have never seen that work out well.

I see, so Bowe should not get in any trouble. He just dropped the ball so its OK. You can call him an iron first leader if u like but Im pretty sure you and I only really get to see him for three hours a week. The rest of what you say is purely speculation. I believe you sarcastically called someone else the "great seer" for speculating on someones behaviour.

Go ahead and throw all the stats u like around. Do you honestly believe that if no one yelled at anyone that we would be ranked around 15th...16th in the league? There is no one thing wrong with our offence, there are several and they are not going to get taken care of in one offseason.

My point is that you have a guy who has been in the league a few years, gets paid millions to play and he gets yelled at when he makes a drop. Cry me a fu*kin' river. If you hate it that much, pack you sh!t and get the f*ck outta here. Otherwise, suck it up and do your job.

[chief31]

I'm still waiting for people to realize this coach is a joke. For some reason, this guy is getting a free pass for some HORRIFIC crap that the black guy wouldn't have EVER gotten away with. I've tried to figure out why Haley is getting off so easy for all this crap and I've pretty much eliminated all scenarios but the fact that he's white. If you had a black coach doing the things this jacka$$ has done throughout the year and he wouldn't have even lasted to this point and the fans would be up in arms.

Wow. I didn't picture you as a racist.

Herm was given the same leeway for his first season that Haley is getting.

Same as with Haley now, I was highly critical of Herm during his first season, and just about everyone else was defending him, and waiting another year to pass judgement.

The only difference has been how you were (and still are) so patient and forgiving of three years of Herm's failures, and all over Haley's a**, in his first season.

I've heard all of your excuses. But they all fail.

Herm was here for three seasons, and you were making every excuse that you could for him, and suggesting that he only needed another two or thee years to get this team built.

And Haley has been here all of one season, and you are done with him.

I just attributed that to some blind faith in Herm. But since you brought up the race card, I think I have changed my opinion.

I see, so Bowe should not get in any trouble. He just dropped the ball so its OK.

Ah, what a bold technique you have used here, Mr Canada. Going directly to the "arms in the air" exaggeration.

Somehow, you get to act like I said that players can "not get in any trouble".

Love how effective that technique is. It's like what Mel Gibson's character in Lethal Weapon did to that one woman. Some psychiatrist, or something. You know, he yelled in front of everybody, something like "No I will not go out with you!!!"

Nice move. But you and I both know that it is BS.

You can call him an iron first leader if u like but Im pretty sure you and I only really get to see him for three hours a week. The rest of what you say is purely speculation. I believe you sarcastically called someone else the "great seer" for speculating on someones behaviour.

Haley has had alot of confrontations with these players this season. And that is just during the few hours that we get to see him, out of each week.

So it isn't "purely" speculation. It's partly speculation.

And, considering his behaviour toward the players during those few hours, I openly speculate that he is probably even tougher when the world isn't watching.

But that would be less of an issue in my opinion.

And the "great seer" comment came in regards to a "I'm 100% positive" remark. That isn't speculation. It is stating something as pure fact. 100% fact, to be precise.

Go ahead and throw all the stats u like around. Do you honestly believe that if no one yelled at anyone that we would be ranked around 15th...16th in the league?

Oh, that's just silly! How would they hear each other across the field during practice?

There is no one thing wrong with our offence, there are several and they are not going to get taken care of in one offseason.

My point is that you have a guy who has been in the league a few years, gets paid millions to play and he gets yelled at when he makes a drop. Cry me a fu*kin' river. If you hate it that much, pack you sh!t and get the f*ck outta here. Otherwise, suck it up and do your job.

That's what many of the players have done. And more will do the same. What we will be left with is just a bunch of players who are willing to do anything just to have a job, because they lack the talent to keep an NFL position, with a team that other players will play for.

It seems pretty obvious to me that "suck it up and do your job." isn't working out too well with our WRs.

NFL coaching is about getting your players to perform better, not worse.

If a guy plays a position were being enraged while playing is a good thing, (let's say D-line) then maybe pi**ing him off works. But when being pi**ed off breaks a player's much needed concentration, then maybe it is a staight-line to failure.

Anyway...

...the point is that humiliating players is certainly not a requirement.

And keeping that sort of thing to practices, instead of in front of the whole world, would probably be wise. Just as LJ might have been wise to keep his opinions off of Twitter.

You just don't spread your dirty laundry all over your front lawn, for everyone to see. Keep it in the damn hamper.

Or, better yet, wash it. (AKA fix it.)

[Canada]

Yeah thats all great if all he does is yell at people. Which is not true, thats just the only time they put a camera on him during a game. So you are speculating (partially Im sure) that our WRs would be better without getting yelled at and if our Coach was not so mean then more players would want to come here. Herm was a super nice guy....how many players did that attract? I think the whole No one will want to play here comment is a big load of sh!t. Ton coughlin was a di*k when he first came to NY but the winning seemed to make him more likeable to the players. Wierd how that works. Having a dicussion on how Haley acts with the players is ridiculous since no one really gets to see it. Maybe he is your loving nurturing coach during practice when they are learning and then gets pissed off when they don't do their job on Sunday.

[KottkeKU]

tom coughlin is a great example. NY wanted his head on a platter through his first couple years, then he wins them a superbowl beating the mighty NE Patriots with a gnarly 4-3 pass rush.

[CapitalT]

Next year, Haley will fully own the responsibility for the players attitude and performance. Hopefully we won't hear any more whining about how Haley can't succeed because of mistakes made by Peterson and Edwards.

If he turns this team around and the Chiefs start winning (I'm thinking a few more wins - perhaps a few quality wins), I won't be complaining about his coaching. If the Chiefs don't start winning, we need to look for a new head coach.

[chief31]

Yeah thats all great if all he does is yell at people. Which is not true, thats just the only time they put a camera on him during a game. So you are speculating (partially Im sure) that our WRs would be better without getting yelled at and if our Coach was not so mean then more players would want to come here. Herm was a super nice guy....how many players did that attract? I think the whole No one will want to play here comment is a big load of sh!t. Ton coughlin was a di*k when he first came to NY but the winning seemed to make him more likeable to the players. Wierd how that works. Having a dicussion on how Haley acts with the players is ridiculous since no one really gets to see it. Maybe he is your loving nurturing coach during practice when they are learning and then gets pissed off when they don't do their job on Sunday.

Coughlin had to chill out before any winning happened there. That team was a complete mutiny during his "acting like a d***" years.

They were miserable when he was acting like that.

And the "speculation" about players not wanting to play for Haley is supported by the number of players that have found their way out of here in just one year.

And if the discussion is "ridiculous", then every discussion is ridiculous. You never have every single relative fact for any discussion.

But you would be a fool to not notice how Chiefs players have been having issues with Todd Haley.

Tony Gonzalez left right away.

Brian Waters at least met with him before trying to escape.

Bernard Pollard told the man, to his face, that he was unhappy.

Larry Johnson told the world.

Damion Mcintosh was fired with nobody here to do his job.

Tank Tyler was removed from the starting lineup when he was doing a very good job. Then removed from the team... again, with noone here to take his place.

Turk Mcbride was sent packing, immediately after that.

Tyler Thigpen was sent packing.

Derrick Johnson was demoted and has never been given a chance to show what he can do.

Dwayne Bowe has had issues with Haley all season long. Including a suspension for taking a weight-loss substance in a likely attempt to meet Haley's standards.

Where is Mark Bradley?

You can call it speculation, because, almost everything is.

But, just as I can speculate that the lottery ticket I just bought isn't going to win me the $200,000,000 jackpot, some things are just that damn obvious.

In our lifetimes, each of us has witnessed how people really react to different types of treatment.

And every one of us, yourself included, knows that if someone humiliates you, especially if it happens often, then you will come to despise them. You, me, everybody. (Always rare exceptions)

And you are not a part of a team, if most of the team despises you. You are just there for the team to tolerate.

Even with guys like Coughlin and Parcells, you never saw this much negative interaction with players, in just one season. Hell, I don't think you could combine their careers to come up with as many "low-lights" as Haley has in one year's time.

Again, if you aren't good enough to wash your dirty laundry, then, at least, keep off the front yard.

Now, I am sincerely curious...

Do you believe that there is no better way to teach, or instruct, people, than to yell at them and berate them?

And do you beieve that Dwayne Bowe, Chambers, Bradley, Wade and the rest of our recievers are incapable of catching the football?

Just wondering why you seem so in favor of humiliating the players, when it so clearly isn't working.

Like...maybe you think they just need some more sceaming at to get it all figured out?

[chief31]

Next year, Haley will fully own the responsibility for the players attitude and performance. Hopefully we won't hear any more whining about how Haley can't succeed because of mistakes made by Peterson and Edwards.

If he turns this team around and the Chiefs start winning (I'm thinking a few more wins - perhaps a few quality wins), I won't be complaining about his coaching. If the Chiefs don't start winning, we need to look for a new head coach.

He won't succeed if he continues to have as many bad relationships with his players as he does now.

However, as he fires everyone that he has a problem with, that whole situation will be minimized. He is doing that to "his" players.

No. He is babying his guys.

Just like Herm, I think Haley wants to be sure that any accomplishment he gets here will not be dismissed as the work of the guy before him.

I am not the one saying that Haley has to go. (Cowher exception here.)

But I am saying that he has mishandled the situation he was put in this season.

He could even still salvage what he has. I don't think he will. But he could.

He would just need to realize that this team could use the talent that he is trying to get rid of, and make changes to his treatment of them.

[fairladyZ]

also got to remember anquan boldin said he would not mind coming and playing for haley here.

ya i'm sure he gets in their face but i'm sure he supports them when they make good plays and good decisions aswell. just like i saw on sunday when he ran out on the field to wade and told him good job and was bringing him up.

This is a game about wins and money.
Players get paid A TON of money, they screw up they get yelled at by haley. We don't win a game or haley screws up, He gets yelled at by Pioli and every fan on this forum calling him a f'in idiot and screaming for his job.
it's a food chain can't deal with it hell give me the money and i will let him spit in my face for all i care.

[Canada]

Coughlin had to chill out before any winning happened there. That team was a complete mutiny during his "acting like a d***" years.

They were miserable when he was acting like that.

And the "speculation" about players not wanting to play for Haley is supported by the number of players that have found their way out of here in just one year.

And if the discussion is "ridiculous", then every discussion is ridiculous. You never have every single relative fact for any discussion.

But you would be a fool to not notice how Chiefs players have been having issues with Todd Haley.

Tony Gonzalez left right away.

Didn't he want to leave before Haley came here?

Brian Waters at least met with him before trying to escape.

I think I saw him play for the chiefs this year.

Bernard Pollard told the man, to his face, that he was unhappy.

He was unhappy...now he is gona to play average football somewhere else.
Larry Johnson told the world.

Who gives a sh!t what LJ says. That guy has been complining since Vermiel was here.

Damion Mcintosh was fired with nobody here to do his job.

He wasn't doing his job. How come now all of a sudden Sackintosh is someone we should not have gotten rid of?
Tank Tyler was removed from the starting lineup when he was doing a very good job. Then removed from the team... again, with noone here to take his place.

Turk Mcbride was sent packing, immediately after that.

Yeah, Haley destroying our Stellar D line!!

Tyler Thigpen was sent packing.

This was due to Haley...how?

Derrick Johnson was demoted and has never been given a chance to show what he can do.

We have not seen what DJ can do? Didn't u watch Chiefs football for the last 4 years?

Dwayne Bowe has had issues with Haley all season long. Including a suspension for taking a weight-loss substance in a likely attempt to meet Haley's standards.

I see...Bowe broke the rules and that is Haleys fault. Why not blame the NFL for wanting players who are in shape. How dare Haley make Bowe get in shape for the season. I think even you have to recognize that that is a ridiculous statement.

Where is Mark Bradley?

Dropping bals on the street somewhere I assume.

You can call it speculation, because, almost everything is.

But, just as I can speculate that the lottery ticket I just bought isn't going to win me the $200,000,000 jackpot, some things are just that damn obvious.

In our lifetimes, each of us has witnessed how people really react to different types of treatment.

And every one of us, yourself included, knows that if someone humiliates you, especially if it happens often, then you will come to despise them. You, me, everybody. (Always rare exceptions)

My old man yelled at me, called me an idiot. All kinds of sh!t. You know why....cause at the time I was being an idiot. Now that he has raised me, I got a good job and I am a pretty good person. Do i despise him? Not even a bit. I have the utmost respect for my father.

And you are not a part of a team, if most of the team despises you. You are just there for the team to tolerate.

Even with guys like Coughlin and Parcells, you never saw this much negative interaction with players, in just one season. Hell, I don't think you could combine their careers to come up with as many "low-lights" as Haley has in one year's time.

Again, if you aren't good enough to wash your dirty laundry, then, at least, keep off the front yard.

Now, I am sincerely curious...

Do you believe that there is no better way to teach, or instruct, people, than to yell at them and berate them?

And do you beieve that Dwayne Bowe, Chambers, Bradley, Wade and the rest of our recievers are incapable of catching the football?

Bradley..average. Wade...average. Chambers has been catching the ball for the most part and Bowe...I have heard conversations every season about when is Bowe gonna take it to the next level. I don't know what the problem is, but these problems all existed before Haley came along.
Just wondering why you seem so in favor of humiliating the players, when it so clearly isn't working.

Like...maybe you think they just need some more sceaming at to get it all figured out?

Maybe I think a hard nosed approach will work because all of the hand holding and kissing that we have had for the last 5 years has gotten us jack sh!t.

[chief31]

Maybe I think a hard nosed approach will work because all of the hand holding and kissing that we have had for the last 5 years has gotten us jack sh!t.

I must have missed where the kissing and hand-holding was suggested.

Tony Gonzalez left right away.

Didn't he want to leave before Haley came here?

Was having Haley as a HC enough to convince him that he was gonna be on a winner here?

Brian Waters at least met with him before trying to escape.

I think I saw him play for the chiefs this year.

Me too. Hmph! Contracts.

This is closing your eyes. Pretending like was never a situation with Waters and Haley.

Player who tried to leave because of Haley.

Bernard Pollard told the man, to his face, that he was unhappy.

He was unhappy...now he is gona to play average football somewhere else.

Lol. Still a player leaving because of Haley.

Larry Johnson told the world.

Who gives a sh!t what LJ says. That guy has been complining since Vermiel was here.

Still a player leaving because of Haley.

Damion Mcintosh was fired with nobody here to do his job.

He wasn't doing his job. How come now all of a sudden Sackintosh is someone we should not have gotten rid of?

He was someone who shouldn't have been gotten rid of before they did. Nothing "all of a sudden" about it.

And since he was fired without anyone to take his place, pretty easy to speculate (Since you seem to like the word) that there was some sort of issue with him.

Tank Tyler was removed from the starting lineup when he was doing a very good job. Then removed from the team... again, with noone here to take his place.

Turk Mcbride was sent packing, immediately after that.

Yeah, Haley destroying our Stellar D line!!

Yeah. It's been soooo much better ever since.

Tyler Thigpen was sent packing.

This was due to Haley...how?

May not have been. But could have been, for all we know.

Derrick Johnson was demoted and has never been given a chance to show what he can do.

We have not seen what DJ can do? Didn't u watch Chiefs football for the last 4 years?

DAMN!!! I thought we were running a different defense! Thanks for opening my eyes, brother!

But keep denying, even the most obvious situations.

He will be leaving because of Haley.

Dwayne Bowe has had issues with Haley all season long. Including a suspension for taking a weight-loss substance in a likely attempt to meet Haley's standards.

I see...Bowe broke the rules and that is Haleys fault. Why not blame the NFL for wanting players who are in shape. How dare Haley make Bowe get in shape for the season. I think even you have to recognize that that is a ridiculous statement.

Give me a damn break!

Have you ever seen what these guys go through in training camp?

They are gonna be in as good of shape as they can be. Some guys just aren't going to be able to drop to 200 pounds and be healthy. Most of them play on the lines though.

And if what they make a WR do in these training camps doesn't get them down to a certain weight, then that person isn't supposed to be at that weight.

And you just stick right to that same old tactic, hunh?

Pretending I said it was haley's fault. Cute.

Where is Mark Bradley?

Dropping bals on the street somewhere I assume.

Right on! He must hold some records for dropped balls, eh?

Another player gone due to Haley.

Bradley..average. Wade...average. Chambers has been catching the ball for the most part and Bowe...I have heard conversations every season about when is Bowe gonna take it to the next level. I don't know what the problem is, but these problems all existed before Haley came along.

The next level? He has been playing great! Too bad he doesn't seem to want to be here anymore.

And Chambers has become just another Chiefs WR who drops the ball. Watch the games. He is as guilty as anyone else.

But...

Back to the plain and simple fact that you can't make enemies of your team and expect good things.

My old man yelled at me, called me an idiot. All kinds of sh!t. You know why....cause at the time I was being an idiot. Now that he has raised me, I got a good job and I am a pretty good person. Do i despise him? Not even a bit. I have the utmost respect for my father.

And you never did despise him for it? He never punished you erroneously? Or you just respected that too?

You must be one in a million. I don't think I have ever met someone who didn't despise their parents, to some degree, and for some length of time, no matter how much/little discipline they had from them.

It isn't until they have grown past that they learn to respect it. Generally, many years later.

And still, these people aren't children. Treating them as such is stupid.

If you are gonna coach a team of 53 grown men, you are gonna have to learn to deal with different personalities.

Some are gonna respond well to harsh criticism. Some aren't. And if you want all of them to perform the best that they can, then you have to learn how to get that from each one of them.