early draft trade rumors... dealin with Detroit?

**sammyboy909** · 02-10-2010, 03:33 PM

So the trade scenario i've recently seen being bandied about on the interweb is what if Detroit called up and offered to switch picks in the first round (their second for our fifth overall) and their second or third rounder for Glenn Dorsey, and maybe a late round pick or switch. For discussion let's just assume the best case scenario, i.e. first round switch and the lions second round pick (34th overall) for Dorsey.

Regardless of the specific details, the basics of the trade seem to make sense for Detroit if St. Louis decides to draft a quarterback. Then the lions offers us Suh in exchange for Gunther's old guy Dorsey, and the lions trade down expecting to grab Okung to replace the often inconsistent and injured jeff backus at LT. The upside for us would be we grab many people's highest rated player in this draft, and retain the 34th, 36th, and 50th overall picks.

This is a potentially attractive proposition, and I admit there are draft scenarios that could play out where I would consider this a given (for instance, Suh becomes a life-long chief and hall-of-famer, and somehow we manage to pick up Mike Iupati, Terrance Cody, and Brandon Spikes or Taylor Mays in the second round). The problem is there are simply no guarantees about these later picks and ultimately we would be rolling the dice to replace Dorsey with Suh. We would be plugging in Suh as a 3-4 D-end and hoping he transitions well, whereas Dorsey already made the transition quite well and showed the potential to become a cornerstone of this defense for years to come.

The beauty of this rumor is that it we can't know whether or not its realistic until the minute we know what St. Louis does with the first pick, so it could a topic of argument amongst Dorsey-loving/Dorsey-hating chiefs fans for quite awhile. So what does everyone think?

**sammyboy909** · 02-10-2010, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by matthewschiefs

I think IF the rams dont take Suh and the Lions are willing to do this trade the Chiefs HAVE to do it. Suh has looked good and hes a player I think the chiefs would be better off haveing even if they do have to let go of dorsey. Suh would help the biggest need on Defense thats pass rush. Yes its a gamble takeing a unproven rookie but I think its a move the chiefs should do.

I do think Suh would prove the better pass rusher and has an overall higher ceiling for potential in our system than Dorsey, which is saying a lot, especially given how big I was (and still am) on Dorsey when we drafted him.

So this got me thinking. If somehow it worked out and we did accept the trade. whats the best case scenario for our three picks in the second round? I still say we stick with Cody and Pouncey, but who do we target with detroit's 34th overall? If somehow Iupati falls I would jump all over him. There is also Vladimir Ducasse who is a mauler and could easily play at guard or RT.

This scenario gives us the following lines: starting DL- Jackson, Cody, Suh. OL- Albert, Waters, Pouncey, Ducasse, O'Callahan. These are solid lines; adding a pass rush dynamic to the DL and flexibility to the OL (Albert and Ducasse can both play T/G and Pouncey can play C/G).

My mind still isn't made up but it is fun to consider the possibilities.

**matthewschiefs** · 02-10-2010, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by sammyboy909

I do think Suh would prove the better pass rusher and has an overall higher ceiling for potential in our system than Dorsey, which is saying a lot, especially given how big I was (and still am) on Dorsey when we drafted him.

So this got me thinking. If somehow it worked out and we did accept the trade. whats the best case scenario for our three picks in the second round? I still say we stick with Cody and Pouncey, but who do we target with detroit's 34th overall? If somehow Iupati falls I would jump all over him. There is also Vladimir Ducasse who is a mauler and could easily play at guard or RT.

This scenario gives us the following lines: starting DL- Jackson, Cody, Suh. OL- Albert, Waters, Pouncey, Ducasse, O'Callahan. These are solid lines; adding a pass rush dynamic to the DL and flexibility to the OL (Albert and Ducasse can both play T/G and Pouncey can play C/G).

My mind still isn't made up but it is fun to consider the possibilities.

This is a very fun time of the year to daydream about what you would want your favorite football team to do in free agenacy and the draft.

The only downside I will point out in makeing this trade is we will have to wait for Suh to devolpe as an NFL player. That is a step back in some ways. Dorsey was getting better so there is some risk. But its fun to think about.

**tornadospotter** · 02-10-2010, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by pbatrucker

I don't like Cody at all. He is not athletic, cannot cover the area between the tackles and is often beaten at the point of attack by one blocker.
I can't remember where I read it but they wewre saying Suh had two knee operations while in college. If true you can exspect him to drop in the draft.

I do not think so, if he did it was not in the last two years.

**jacko58** · 02-10-2010, 08:48 PM

i like dorsey still i wish hed be a good nt hes a alright end but he will always just be alright unless tyson jackson can do more then take on a blocker. if we get wilfork i'll be happy with the line bein dorsey wilfork and jackson but we have to upgrade this spot to do any damage. i like seeing someone sayin we should take weatherspoon in the second. i love this lb hes all over the place good tackles good hands he did everything for the mizzou d

**matthewschiefs** · 02-10-2010, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by jacko58

i like dorsey still i wish hed be a good nt hes a alright end but he will always just be alright unless tyson jackson can do more then take on a blocker. if we get wilfork i'll be happy with the line bein dorsey wilfork and jackson but we have to upgrade this spot to do any damage. i like seeing someone sayin we should take weatherspoon in the second. i love this lb hes all over the place good tackles good hands he did everything for the mizzou d

I think IF we do manage to get Wilfork then we will stick with Dorsey. It would be a great upgrade for this Defense.

**Coach** · 02-10-2010, 10:20 PM

So you'd rather have Suh and the the Lions 2nd round pick vs. Dorsey and our #5 pick where we can take Berry, Okung or McClain?

Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Berry
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Okung
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and McClain.

No thanks. I'd rather keep Dorsey and get any one of those three instead of taking another rookie DE(Suh) that isn't a good fit for a 3-4 DE and an unknown 2nd rd pick. This team needs a NT, not a new DE.

**chief31** · 02-10-2010, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Coach

So you'd rather have Suh and the the Lions 2nd round pick vs. Dorsey and our #5 pick where we can take Berry, Okung or McClain?

Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Berry
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Okung
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and McClain.

No thanks. I'd rather keep Dorsey and get any one of those three instead of taking another rookie DE(Suh) that isn't a good fit for a 3-4 DE and an unknown 2nd rd pick. This team needs a NT, not a new DE.

I'll add, eventhough it has been mentioned repeatedly, that Suh isn't really a 3-4 DE type.

He is a pass-rusher. 3-4 DEs are not.

If he was here, it seems like he would need to be turned into a LB, or just learn to play DE as more of a stat-free guy.

That is, unless we plan to, either, have our 3-4 DC attempt a 4-3 defense, or abandon the fundamental design of the 3-4 for some new experiment within a 3-4 set-up.

In any of those scenarios, you are diminishing the value of, either, the player, or the defensive scheme.

I would look at any of those scenarios as a horrible gamble.

**tornadospotter** · 02-10-2010, 10:56 PM

I would take Suh, but I am very much a Suh fan.

**tornadospotter** · 02-10-2010, 11:02 PM

NFL Videos: Mayock top 5: DT

**jacko58** · 02-10-2010, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Coach

So you'd rather have Suh and the the Lions 2nd round pick vs. Dorsey and our #5 pick where we can take Berry, Okung or McClain?

Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Berry
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Okung
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and McClain.

No thanks. I'd rather keep Dorsey and get any one of those three instead of taking another rookie DE(Suh) that isn't a good fit for a 3-4 DE and an unknown 2nd rd pick. This team needs a NT, not a new DE.

if berry is there at five id love it. and i wasn't sayin i want dorsey gone i still believe in him but we must upgrade our nt spot and i don't trust cody to solve it. mcclain im still unsure of id rather take berry with our first weatherspoon with one of our seconds and then open to suggestions past that, of course i'd love for wilfork and we need o line and wr